Tucker: We don't know who the Afghan refugees are

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Tucker: We don't know who the Afghan refugees are

'Tucker Carlson Tonight' host discusses evacuation efforts out of Afghanistan

This is a rush transcript of "Tucker Carlson Tonight" on August 27, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: We are starting to learn the names tonight of the 13 American servicemen who were killed yesterday in that bombing in Kabul. The father of one of them, one of the slain Marines joins us in just a moment. 

But first good evening and welcome to TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT. 

In the middle of the night, last month, Bagram Air Base, which is about 30 miles north of Kabul plunged into darkness. Nothing like that had ever happened before. 

Bagram is more than an air base, it's an enormous piece of property, the size of a small town. It had a hospital, shops, gyms, two runways, rows of hangars and barracks. As of last month, Bagram also had a prison. It held thousands of foreign fighters, including men from ISIS and the Taliban. 

And then all of a sudden, for the first time in 20 years, the lights went out at Bagram. Locals understood immediately what was going on. Without warning or even a courtesy notification, the U.S. military just left, split in the middle of the night, and turned off the power as they did. 

Ultimately, the base's new Afghan commander fled, too, and so within minutes, looters descended. They found thousands of vehicles at Bagram, hundreds of them armored, as well as a huge cache of weapons and ammunition. 

Now The Pentagon didn't seem concerned. Mark Milley, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff had explained already that, quote: "Bagram is not necessary tactically for what we're going to do in Afghanistan." End quote. 

That turns out to be a massive miscalculation, that's now clear. The decision to abandon Bagram Airfield was in fact, idiotic and it led directly to the killing of 13 American servicemen yesterday. 

With Bagram abandoned, the evacuation of Afghanistan is being staged from a commercial airport in the capital, and given its location Kabul's airport is almost impossible to defend. 

Yet, despite the fact it can't really be defended, it remains the only way for American citizens to get out of the country. 

As Bill Roggio, the editor of "The Long War Journal" put it, abandoning Bagram Air Base quote, "Is the perfect example of the generals just saluting and saying 'yes, sir' and 'can do' and not standing up and saying 'This is madness and I can't execute this because I'm putting the lives of Americans at risk and you need to find someone else to do it.'" 

Tragically, no one in authority was brave enough to say that. Instead, at every turn, they made unwise decisions that seemed designed to make the country they serve weaker, to humiliate the United States. 

What's interesting is that these very same people are now overseeing what may be the largest airlift in generations, an airlift of thousands of Afghan citizens into the West and into our country. 

So, how is that airlift going? 

You're hearing a lot about it, but very few details. Who, for example, are all these Afghans? Many of whom are on their way here. 

The truth is, despite what they are telling you, we have no real idea who they are. We just don't know. We just learned for example that at least a hundred of the refugees the American military has flown out of Kabul, people we've been told repeatedly are heroes by definition are in fact on terror watch lists. 

One man we evacuated apparently works directly for ISIS. Today, an Afghan interpreter told FOX News that this sort of thing is happening all the time. People are getting on planes in Kabul without any proof of identification whatsoever. It's like voting in California. Listen. 

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know people that they're at the same situation that I am right now. They have worked for the United States. They have provided supply for the United States, but guess what? There are people that are getting inside the airport that they have never worked. They knew somebody with a green card, they know somebody with a passport, that's how they got inside. 

I know people that they are inside, but they never worked. 

(END AUDIO CLIP) 

CARLSON: So, that's not an analyst on MSNBC, that's someone at the Kabul Airport, and if you listen carefully, you'll hear a lot of stories just like that one. 

One pilot with United Airlines, someone who is flying people out of Kabul as part of the Civilian Reserve Airlift Fleet just told FOX News, he was simply told to evacuate people from Afghanistan. No details beyond that. 

The pilot said he was never given a passenger manifest and when his airplane arrived at Dulles Airport outside Washington, the State Department refused to share any passenger information with Customs and Border Patrol. 

They just whisked right on through. 

That means, as always, unnamed foreign nationals got far better treatment than you would get if you landed at Dulles Airport. Surprised? But again there's a lot of this. 

Another commercial airline employee, a flight attendant just told this show that her flight crew was told they'd be ferrying American civilians who would escape from Kabul, and she was happy to do that. But when they arrived in Qatar in the Gulf, they learned that in fact, they'd be carrying no American citizens at all -- none. Instead, they'd have to transport Afghan nationals, many of whom became unruly on the flight. 

And by the way, since these weren't American citizens, they didn't have to wear masks. Rules like that are only for you and the rest of us who are paying for it. They don't apply to people without passports from Afghanistan. 

Now, that may shock you, but trust us, it's normal in Washington. 

The Democratic Party is actively demanding it, of course. They view every refugee as a potential new voter. You'll remember that Sandy Cortez was very worried about all those unvetted Trump voters wandering through what they thought was their Capitol on January 6th. Sandy Cortez thought she might be raped, despite the fact she wasn't even there at the time. 

But strangely, Cortez, so sensitive about her own safety is not in the least concerned about sending huge and still unknown numbers of refugees into your neighborhood. She has seen -- we have all seen what Afghan migration has done to Europe over the past six years, and apparently, she approves of it. She wants more. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): In order to carry out and in order to make good on the role that we have played in this violence, we have a responsibility to make a home for the people whose lives have been upended by interventionist U.S. foreign policy. 

And so, as a result, I'm proud to have co-wrote a letter with Representative Barbara Lee to ask and urge the Biden administration to, as they set their refugee quotas to make it no less than 200,000. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON: So, the macro question is why does silly children like that have any power whatsoever in this country? Why should some girl from BU who knows nothing, has never done anything in her whole life be in charge of the way your country looks going forward for the next hundred years. Who knows? That's democracy as we practice it. 

But listen carefully what she is saying. No fewer than 200,000 refugees. 

Why? Because we're evil and we deserve it. 

Wait a second. We shouldn't spend 20 years in Afghanistan, but why did we go there in the first place? Well, because al-Qaeda was using it as a base from which to blow up the World Trade Centers and attack The Pentagon. 

There was a reason we went there in the first place, even if the occupation, thanks to people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez turned out to be a total disaster. 

So, we don't owe the country anything. They were the staging ground for 9/11. She was a child at the time and doesn't remember that, but her view now has bipartisan support in the City of Washington. It's not just Democrats, we're sad to report. 

Here is Republican Adam Kinzinger, for example, a man who not only weeps for Nancy Pelosi's super fans on the Capitol Hill Police Department, but also for foreign nationals on the no-fly list. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: They are painting Afghan refugees as invaders. 

You know, there are undertones even of racism here. 

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): What you see is in the media echo chamber, this fear-mongering, right? This, they are coming to your neighborhood, these hordes of people that haven't been vetted. 

I mean, that is not American. 

Refugees to this country have always been the ones that are extremely entrepreneurial. I mean, we all know that. They come here, they work hard, they fight hard for success, and so, if anybody wants to go out and fear monger and continue that darkness in your heart and speaking it so you can win an election, A, you're either evil at your heart yourself; or B, you're a charlatan who is only interested in winning re-election and you truly can't say you care about the healthy American people. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON: Okay, wait a second, son. We can debate how many Afghan refugees we admit, but making this a matter of racism, Pashtuns are whiter than you are. They have beards, but there is nothing racist about having concerns about Afghans or anybody else moving here. It has nothing to do with race. 

So knock it off. 

But listen to what he is saying. Foreigners are more impressive than you are. They are more entrepreneurial. You learn that at a Coke seminar. And if you don't agree with that, said Adam Kinzinger, if you thought the point of America was to serve the people who live here, the Americans, you are -- and we're quoting -- "evil." That's his position. You're evil. 

So now you know why Adam Kinzinger isn't bothered at all by what the Biden administration is doing now at the southern border which is opening it. He is not bothered because he agrees with the result. Fewer native born whiners, those people can go die of obesity and fentanyl ODs, more grateful foreigners to whom -- who feel indebted to us, people we can claim to have rescued. 

So Adam Kinzinger is obviously a transparently pathetic and odious person, and we don't mean to beat up on him. He literally cries when he thinks about what a good person he is. So we don't want to single him out. 

The point is that his attitudes, less childishly expressed, are very common in Washington and the numbers prove it. 

Since July, the United States has evacuated more than a hundred thousand people from Afghanistan. All heroes? All Americans? No. 

As of tonight, just about 5,000 of that total are American citizens. That's five percent. 

So, you're thinking the other 95 percent must be heroes, right? All translators -- 95,000 translators. That's what CNN is telling you. But no. 

Just today, the State Department admitted it has no idea how many of these people have what we're calling Special Immigrant Visas. That would indicate they actually worked with the U.S. military and might be heroes, maybe even translators. So no, they're not all heroes. We don't know who they are. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

NED PRICE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: In the context of this massive in many ways, unprecedented evacuation effort, our first goal is to -- has been to bring as many people to safety as quickly as possible. 

So in many cases, we are going to be in a better position to provide you fidelity on numbers in the coming days and in the coming weeks. As this process has been ongoing, our goal has been to put as many people on as many planes as we can. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON: So, to restate, they're not all heroes. We can't say that because we don't know who they are. 

The head of U.S. Northern Command, General Glen VanHerck just admitted this. He told our Jennifer Griffin that more than half of the Afghan refugees coming into the United States do not have Special Immigrant Visas, so they didn't work for the U.S. military. They're not heroes, they're not translators, so why do we have a moral obligation to let them live here and give them free healthcare? 

We have no proof that they're loyal. We don't even know if they're entrepreneurial as Adam Kinzinger might say, so why are we taking them into the country? Well, our military won't say, instead The Pentagon is just doing it, and then building housing for them. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY (RET.) PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Today, the Department of Defense can announce that it has authorized Marine Corps Base Quantico, Virginia; Fort Pickett, Virginia and Holloman Air Force Base, New Mexico to provide additional support to the U.S. mission to evacuate Afghan Special Immigrant Visa applicants, their families, and other at-risk individuals. 

These installations join Fort Lee, Fort McCoy, Fort Bliss, and Joint Base McGuire-Dix in providing this support. The Defense Department will continue to support the State Department in providing temporary housing, sustainment, and support inside the United States for a capacity of up to

50,000 Afghan Special Immigrant Visa applicants, their families, and other at-risk individuals. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON: Man, they always take tragedy and they run with it to change this country outside the bounds of democracy. They don't ask anyone to vote on it, they don't ask your permission, they just take your sadness and bewilderment and they leverage it to change everything. 

They did that with George Floyd's death. They did it with COVID, which they helped create through gain-of-function research, and they're doing it now wake of the tragedy in Afghanistan that they caused. 

So, we just learned that 50,000 SIV applicants plus their families -- and here is the key phrase -- and other at-risk individuals. 

So, what you ask is an at-risk individual? We have no idea, but it's a term our military is using a lot. Today, the head of U.S. Central Command again used that term "at-risk Afghans." 

Right now, it seems like anyone in Afghanistan is at risk and that seems to be the Biden administration's assumption as well. CBS News is reporting that some of these at-risk individuals are now being housed in U.S. 

government shelters. Meanwhile, soldiers at Fort Bliss are building new temporary housing as part of what they're calling Operation Allies Refuge. 

Now Allies Refuge? That sounds like something all of us can get behind, offering refuge to our allies. Then you realize who these allies might be. 

The Pentagon now considers the Taliban an ally. We're giving the Taliban lists of Americans who are still in Afghanistan, as well as other classified Intelligence. 

We're also giving them free plane rides to our country. 

Michael Anton was a senior National Security official in the Trump administration. He has been watching all of this with mounting frustration as well. 

Michael Anton, thanks so much for coming on. 

So as usual, they are taking the best impulse Americans have, which is to help others in need to reward our friends, to be loyal and they are leveraging it to do something most Americans don't want, which is to change the population of the country. 

MICHAEL ANTON, FORMER SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY OFFICIAL IN THE TRUMP

ADMINISTRATION: Well, remember Rahm Emanuel, former White House Chief of Staff and Mayor of Chicago said it best about the financial crisis of 2008- 2009, "You never let a crisis go to waste." It opens up opportunities to do things that you've always wanted to do that you didn't have the chance to do until there was some kind of crisis or catastrophe that allows free action. 

I think, there is a big slice of -- I was going to say the Democratic Party, but let's be honest, it's a big part of -- it is all of the Democratic Party and a big part of the Republican Party, too, has wanted to vastly increase refugee flows, immigration flows by any means necessary. 

And they're seeing this, of course, as an opportunity to do it and they're doing it with absolute brazen shamelessness. I mean, 100,000 airlifted and only 5,000 are American citizens when depending on which source you read, there's another 15,000 or 10,000 still remaining in the country is an absolute disgrace. 

They are just rubbing on the American people's noses in it, essentially. I mean, this is like a touchdown dance. We can do whatever we want, and you can't stop us. We're not even going to bother to lie to you. 

CARLSON: Well, especially considering the state of our country. I mean, why don't these people -- why don't we pass law requiring them all to drive from say Manassas, Virginia to say Needles, California and just drive slowly, look around. Is this a country in good shape? Away from the coasts. 

What do you see? 

You see desperate people who can't afford dental care. You see people dying of drug ODs. You see people with no jobs, the ones who do are being paid to stay home, idle, watching Netflix. Like what the hell? 

If there was ever a country that needed attention from its leaders, it's ours. 

ANTON: It would be one thing if we could have confidence in some kind of a vetting process. I think the vast majority of Americans would agree. If there are people who did translate, who really risked their lives in combat operations, who need -- who are now at risk from the Taliban, they would say absolutely, they should be resettled here. 

But let's have a system where a junior officer, a non-com, somebody who actually went out in the field with this person can vouch and say, yes, I know this man. He helped us. He deserves refuge, instead of this random haphazard process. 

As to your other point, it's exactly right. This is not the America of the mid-20th Century that was united, prosperous, confident, and that had a patriotic leadership who did what was in the best interest of the American people. We're the opposite. 

In almost all counts, we need to get our own domestic house in order. We can't afford at this point in time either fiscally or socially or for other reasons to take in 100,000 or 200,000 -- whatever it is -- refugees when our own country is so fundamentally broken and has such terrible leadership. 

CARLSON: And it's -- the brokenness is all around us and we just await a leader who cares enough to try to fix it, anyway. 

Michael Anton, appreciate you coming on tonight. Thank you. 

ANTON: Thank you. 

CARLSON: It's all such an insult to the thousands of Americans killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, 13 more yesterday killed in Afghanistan in a suicide bombing outside the airport in Kabul. One of those servicemen was a Marine called Kareem Nikoui. His father joins us straight ahead. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

CARLSON: This is one of those stories we debated not doing because it's just so sad, it's just -- it's just crushingly sad. But in the end, we decided we had an obligation to do it because it's also true. It just happened. 

Thirteen American servicemen were killed yesterday in a bombing outside the Kabul Airport. One of those servicemen was a U.S. Marine called Kareem Nikoui. This video from Afghanistan could be the last taken of him before his death. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say hi to the camera. Say hi. 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we friends? Are we friends? Friends? Friends? 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, friends. Friend. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON: His father is Steve Nikoui and he joins us tonight. Mr. Nikoui, I appreciate your coming on and our hearts break for you, and I mean that. 

I'm sorry. 

STEVE NIKOUI, FATHER OF U.S. MARINE KILLED IN AFGHANISTAN: Thank you, Tucker. 

CARLSON: You know, it is hard even to know what to ask you other than to extend our sincere, for real, heartfelt sympathies, but how are you doing

24 hours later? 

NIKOUI: Well, I'm going on about 36 hours, I believe that I've been up and I'm still in shock. The family is devastated and his mother who is an excellent mom, you know, is doing the best that she can considering the circumstances. 

CARLSON: Yes. So the reason that we wanted to talk to you, just to remind everyone of you watching and people already know this, but that these are real people serving our country and dying because they they've been asked to put their lives at risk. 

So were you concerned, your boy is over there in the final days of our occupation, were you worried for him? 

NIKOUI: Oh, yes, definitely. He had voiced some worry, too, to the family earlier prior to him going and looked at the way that the Taliban had, you know, pretty much infiltrated the whole country so fast, and we were just kind of it seemed left to just this one little airport really concerned me. 

And the videos that we were getting and the pictures that we were getting from him looked somewhat chaotic, but we got the video that that you had just played, and we got other ones where he was really interacting with, you know, the locals and was kind of his approach to his difficult job. 

So just, you know that video that you saw and his pictures and how he was handling it really put us at ease to where we felt like, you know he's all right. 

CARLSON: What's so bitter about this is how chaotic it was, and you know, if this had been handled from Bagram Air Base, which the U.S. controlled for 20 years, it seems like this wouldn't have happened. Is that your view? 

NIKOUI: Well, yes. I mean, these are of course, my views and has nothing to do with his view as a Marine and, you know the loyalty that he has there. 

I've never served, but yes, my view is that from what I saw of the airport that they were in, it looked like a turkey shoot. 

Basically, it's funneled into like a single-file type entry point at which, you know if you have any sort of chaos of any sort, they would all like gather to that one funneled area, which they would all be susceptible and I think that's exactly what happened. 

It was just basically so chaotic and not really planned out. 

Now, I'm a carpenter and even I could spot that with my untrained military eye. 

CARLSON: Yes, it did seem -- it did seem pretty obvious. Have you heard from the Marine Corps or the political leadership in this country since your son's death? 

NIKOUI: Yes. They have been incredible, so you know basically what had happened was how I found out is, I was glued to the TV all day yesterday because you know we -- I had woken up and I wasn't feeling well and I just felt like something was wrong. My wife felt that there was something wrong. 

And you know, as we go downstairs, we realized that this had happened and now you know, we're like -- well there's some, you know legitimacy to how we're feeling and so we're -- you know, I'm glued to the TV all day. I have my -- and I see, you know it says three wounded and three killed, then 10 killed, then 12, then 13 and you know, so many Afghans and I'm trying to find out what time this actually took place so I can reference when he was working to get some sort of insight. 

Then they said that the President was going to talk, you know, I believe at one o'clock, so I felt like you know, maybe from that speech I'd be able to get whether or not all the families had been contacted or if they still have to be contacted because previously I had seen that, you know, the prior administration would normally contact people like first. 

CARLSON: Yes. 

NIKOUI: Like the actual President of the United States, so I had some sort of sense like hey, okay, maybe that would happen. So then, that's not happening and things are still transpiring to be, you know, a little more grave and I start Googling. 

Well how long does it take for the military to, you know, inform its next of kin? And I somehow from the internet gathered about eight hours, and this is about after he had talked, because after he had talked, he had said that -- you know, I believe he had said that no, they are still going to be contacted or I think maybe the commentator said, well, there will be some knock on the doors tonight. 

So, at that time I didn't know if there was going to be a knock on the door or call. 

So about, after his speech that he did, I then got my phone and put my phone down by the television. Now, I had the cable on, I had the four different networks on my cable, so I had FOX News, BBC, CNN, and something else, which you know, I was just -- the reason I had that is because I was able to see, you know the optics of the fours and you know pick where I wanted to get my information from. 

Well, I also started to think well you know they may possibly come here, so what I had done was I got my phone that has the camera at the front porch and I put that down, so if anyone was to walk up I'd be able to rush outside and intercept them because I didn't -- I didn't want if something happened to my son that these Marines, nothing against them, were to tell my family. 

I felt like, you know that was my responsibility. 

CARLSON: Yes. 

NIKOUI: So, I finally realized, you know they're not going to come at three o'clock. They are going to come between five and ten when everybody is home from work, so then I realized you know, okay, well you know five to ten. If I can make it between five to ten, even if I haven't heard from him, I know that you know, he's all right and he just doesn't have a way to contact me because they either shut down the internet or shut down cell service or whatever. 

And 7:15, I see something in the corner of my eye on my phone and three people are walking up my driveway and my other son, his brother had gone to a football game and had two of his friends, so I was hoping that, you know, it was him and as soon as I saw them turn the corner and saw it was three Marine suits, my life changed forever. 

And I went down there and met them and I think I did before they even knocked on the door and all I kept saying -- and this goes to the point that you're asking, did any service, you know come and address to us? Yes, and they were incredible. 

These young men were so -- had so much empathy and were so concerned with me and my family, who luckily, my family wasn't there, it was just me at the time and I thank God, you know, I thank Jesus that that happened, that I was able to intercept them and all I kept telling them, they were literally there for like five minutes. 

I was all, you know, let's sign whatever papers we have to sign now, but you have to leave because I have to take care of my family and I don't want someone to come here while you're here. 

And they were totally understanding, and then it dawned on me that yes maybe, I don't need the condolences from them, but I don't want to -- I don't want to take that opportunity from my other family members -- my wife, my son -- so I asked them, look, they're at a football game for the high school watching a football game. Can you please wait down the street until they come and then I could see if they want you to come and do your condolences presentation? 

Those Marines, those boys sat out there for four hours. For four hours they sat out there, until they came -- until my wife came, which she, you know, it was not good and I could not -- I could not have them come to the house. 

It was -- it was horrible. 

Like I said, I've been up for about 36 hours, but I was in awe and just humbled by their performance. 

CARLSON: I appreciate it, Steve you telling us that, and God bless you. 

NIKOUI: Yes. 

CARLSON: Thank you. 

NIKOUI: Thank you. 

CARLSON: It's just the worst. Brit Hume is a FOX News senior political analyst and he joins us tonight. 

Brit, that was -- it's -- you know, it's always the best people. 

BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. God bless that man. 

CARLSON: God bless that man. What a nice man. He didn't make any big political points, I think they're implied, but I just wanted to let him talk and show people what it actually looks like and that's what it actually looks like. 

HUME: That's right. I mean, obviously that family, everyone in that family's life has changed forever. 

CARLSON: Yes. 

HUME: I'd be the same. I've lost a son and I -- not through war, but you know, you feel as he does, like some part of you has been amputated and it's never growing back, never growing back. 

CARLSON: Yes, I just -- you know, I hate doing TV that plays purely on people's emotions. I think we have an obligation to think rationally about the best way to run the country and the best decisions to make and sometimes, decisions result in death, but you make them. You know, I don't make them, but our country makes them. 

But I also think it's worth remembering, you know guys like that. 

HUME: Yes. 

CARLSON: Really, the best people America have are the ones who are -- 

HUME: Yes, when you think of that young man who signed up and did this, you saw what he was saying to those kids over there and it breaks your heart. 

CARLSON: It does -- it does break your heart. Yes, his decency just came right through. 

So in light of that, pretty unbelievable they closed Bagram and I mean, he said, you know, I'm a carpenter and I could tell that's not a good idea. 

I'm a talk show host, I've never commanded anything. I never will. 

That's obviously insane. How did we get there? 

HUME: Well, you know, it's tempting and look, I don't think any of these military leaders or our diplomatic leaders have covered themselves with anything approaching glory in all this, and it wouldn't break my heart if they were all -- they all stepped down. Maybe some of them should have. 

But when you drill down into each of these decisions as we go along here and what got us there, it comes back to one thing. It comes back to the decision that was made to get our military out of Afghanistan and fast. 

On Bagram for example, the President is fond of saying now that the military commanders told him that Bagram Airfield really wouldn't be of much use. You heard Mark Milley saying it, the soundbite you played that for tactical reasons, it wasn't much support. Well why was that? 

The reason for that was, as Milley testified or at least, excuse me, as Milley said in a news conference on the 18th of August, he said -- he said, the mission was to protect the embassy and obviously the embassy is in Kabul, and there was no thought that you would add forces to keep Bagram open. He wanted -- what Biden wanted was forces out. 

Now, they had to surge forces into Kabul to protect the embassy they hoped, which failed obviously, but that -- it was the nature of the mission given by the Commander-in-Chief that led to that decision at Bagram. 

CARLSON: I believe that. On the other hand, you know, it has become an increasingly merciless society where people tweet something thoughtless five years ago and lose their livelihood, their lives are destroyed. 

So here you see a series of decisions, I'm sure most were made in good faith because I think most decisions are made in good faith, but that resulted in the deaths of boys like that. 

HUME: Right. 

CARLSON: And the administration informs us to say that no one is going to resign, no one is going to be punished. No one did anything wrong. What is this? 

HUME: I think -- look, my guess is that the jury is still out on that. I think, I mean -- just looking at this in raw political terms, the President, if he doesn't fire anybody, it simply reflects back on him as it should, in fact. 

CARLSON: Right. 

HUME: Right. I mean, you look -- you drill down on any of these -- on any of these questions as to how we got where we are and you find at the bottom of it, it was one basic decision. 

For example, the President is now fond of saying well we were bound by the Trump administration's deal with the Taliban. In fact, when that deal was struck in February of 2020, Zalmay Khalilzad who was a U.S. negotiator and a long-time veteran of Afghanistan made it very clear as did his team around him that this was conditions based and if the Taliban did not live up to its side of the bargain that we were under no obligation to remove our troops. 

So one of the key provisions of that deal was that the Taliban and the Afghan government, then Afghan government, which had been excluded from the negotiations that there would be a deal between them, that they would negotiate a deal. They never did that. They never came close to doing that. 

So just on that score alone, we were not obligated, President Biden was not obligated to pull all our troops out, and you think about it for a minute, Tucker, what was being undertaken here was a massive -- what was going to be a massive evacuation. Now, there are times evacuations are very dangerous, chancy, risky endeavors, and in a situation like this where we couldn't know what was going to happen and got worse as time went on as the Taliban took over more and more of Afghanistan, it was probably a need to surge more troops in. 

But Biden was not going to do that, we know that. He wanted troops out. 

That was where we were at the time when he made the decision and that's where we are now and everything is traceable to that. 

CARLSON: Brit Hume, I appreciate you coming on tonight. 

HUME: You bet. 

CARLSON: Thank you very much. 

So, the question for millions and millions of Americans is, if you have had COVID and recovered, do you need to take the COVID vaccine? We've been awaiting hard science on that. Tonight, we have hard science on that. This should be national news. It should be leading every telecast in the country, but it's not. We'll tell you what that research says next. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

CARLSON: On any other day, this would have been the lead of our show tonight, it's that important. Researchers in Israel have just conducted what Bloomberg News described as quote, "The largest real world analysis comparing natural immunity gained from an earlier infection of COVID to the protection provided by one of the most potent vaccines currently in use," 

end quote. 

So what did the researchers find in this unprecedented large study? They found that vaccinated people are 13 times as likely to be infected with COVID compared to people with natural immunity gained from previous COVID infections. Additionally, vaccinated people were 27 times more likely to be symptomatic with COVID as compared to people with natural immunity. 

So, to the question is natural immunity more effective than the vaccines? 

It seems that we have an extremely clear answer. 

Dr. Marty Makary is a Johns Hopkins University Professor of Public Health, he joins us tonight. Doctor, thanks so much for coming on this is something that you have suggested for an awfully long time, and it looks like now we have proof. Is that what we're looking at? 

DR. MARTY MAKARY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, we've had these debates now for 19 months in the medical community and as we're seeing vaccinated immunity wane over six months, it turns out natural immunity is about 19 months into this pandemic, it's effective, it's durable, and it's going strong. 

And I think a lot of public health officials have been afraid to acknowledge that because they are worried people will just go out there and get the infection and not the vaccine. 

Look, I want people to get the vaccine. If they're not immune, I think the vaccine saves lives, but let's be honest with people, the hesitancy with vaccination is because we've not been honest with things. We've not been honest about natural immunity, we've not been honest with the data. 

We should say complications from the vaccine, they happen, they occur. They are extremely rare and it favors vaccination over natural immunity, but we've got to acknowledge natural immunity is real. 

This study had 700,000 people in Israel. It affirms 14 other studies and another one from Israel showed it was 6.7 times natural immunity was over vaccinated immunity. And the reason is, you probably get more of an antibody response to the entire surface of the virus, not just the spike protein, and you get a cellular response that is the B and T cell response that may be more durable as well. 

CARLSON: So, we can measure whether someone has natural immunity. We're not guessing about it, you can take a blood test. I've seen it. So why -- if it's more effective than the immunity conferred by the vaccines, why would we be mandating the vaccines on people who have more effective immunity already? That seems insane, I think would be one word for it. 

MAKARY: Look, I think public health officials took an edict from the top and it was almost as if it was a political talking point that we need to get every American vaccinated and anything else that suggested otherwise, be it the data on natural immunity, it was downplayed. 

And if you look at the C.D.C.'s own website on the chickenpox vaccine, they tell you not to get it if you had chickenpox in the past. It's the same immune system, it's just this immunity has been politicized with this talking point from on high. 

Look, the medical establishment had a hypothesis that natural immunity was not going to work. That was a bad hypothesis. It was wrong. The data has now shown that and because of that, they've lost credibility and we lost the opportunity to ration the vaccine better if we would have told those with natural immunity to step aside when we were supply constrained. 

It's still a problem overseas. They look to the United States for medical leadership. We should be talking about natural immunity. 

CARLSON: Yes. This is too crazy and it's crushing people's faith in the medical establishment and science itself. It has a massive cost in public trust as you've pointed out many times. Dr. Marty Makary, appreciate your coming on tonight with actual science. Thank you. 

MAKARY: Thanks so much. 

CARLSON: This is too nuts. It's too nuts. We should not be forcing medicine on people who provably don't need it. That's crazy. 

Well, for a brand new episode of "Tucker Carlson Today," we spoke with the author, Seth David Radwell, and he explained what you may have noticed, and that is, the political dialogue in this country has become almost impossible to conduct. The question is why. Here is part of our conversation. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON: The core idea that you're describing is debate. So that's really a pure review, if you will. 

SETH DAVID RADWELL, AUTHOR: Respectful debate and it's about fact. So, what I say is, you know, in God we trust. Everyone else has to bring the data. 

CARLSON: Right. 

RADWELL: So, it's about putting your arguments to the test of empirical observation. One of the things that frustrates me about the philosophy movements of the past couple of decades, which is sometimes referred to as Post Modernism, is they seem to deny the existence of an objective truth.

That somehow, we can't figure out the truth. That everything is fluid. 

And I maintain that science and objective truth is what our country is based on, and we need to return to it and make it center. And we can disagree, Tucker, I'm sure you and I disagree on some political issues. We can talk about it reasonably, and we can use facts and we can respect each other's opinions. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON: Well, yes. It would be nice to have a world like that again. 

You can watch that full conversation right now on "Tucker Carlson Today" by going to foxnation.com. 

One Marine battalion leader just posted a video asking for some accountability from The Pentagon. He was immediately retaliated against and fired. 

His story tells you a lot about what's going on right now. We'll have that for you next. 

Also, right now on tuckercarlson.com, you can order a signed copy of "The Long Slide" if you like. 

We'll be right back. 

CARLSON: If you're starting to suspect the best people in the U.S. 

military, and there are an awful lot of them are being punished, crushed, and purged while the worst people, the most craven, the most unwise people are being elevated and rewarded, if you're starting to think maybe that is going on, listen to this story.' 

Until today, Lieutenant Colonel Stu Scheller was a Battalion Leader in the Marine Corps. In that capacity, he posted this video on Facebook suggesting that there was in fact some incompetence. He said it in a gentle way, but a firm way, some incompetence at the highest levels of The Pentagon. Here is part of what he said. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

STUART SCHELLER, MARINE CORPS BATTALION LEADER: People are upset because their senior leaders let them done and none of them are raising their hands and accepting accountability or saying "We missed this up." 

If a 0-5 Battalion Commander had the simplest live fire incident EO complaint, boom, fired. But we have a Secretary of Defense that testified at Congress in May that the Afghan National Security force who would stand the Taliban advance. We have Chairman of the Joint Chiefs who would come out as a member of that, they're supposed to advice on military policy. 

We have a Marine Combatant Commander, all of these people are supposed to advice, and I'm not saying we have got to be in Afghanistan forever, but I'm saying, did any of you, throw your rank on the table and say, hey, it's a bad idea to evacuate Bagram Airfield, a strategic airbase before we evacuate everyone? 

I have been fighting for 17 years. I am willing to throw it all away to say to my senior leaders, I demand accountability. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON: Well, that's an entirely fair position, and don't give us a lecture about how people in uniform shouldn't be political. We just watched the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff lecture us about white rage in the middle of Congress. 

Here is a man who served the country, who has fought for the country. He is a Marine officer for 17 years. But no one answered his questions. 

Basically, the second he posted that on Facebook, he was fired. The Marine Corps told this show in a statement that he had been quote, "Relieved of command due to loss of trust and confidence." And that Marines shouldn't discuss their disagreements with leadership in public. 

Dan Hollaway is U.S. Army veteran and host of "The Drinkin' Bros" Podcast. 

We're happy to have him join us tonight. 

Dan, thanks so much for coming on. 

So, here's a man -- 

DON HOLLAWAY, U.S. ARMY VETERAN AND HOST, "THE DRINKIN' BROS": Absolutely. 

CARLSON: I mean, from my assessment, he is not saying anything reckless or crazy. He clearly loves the Marine Corps. He has devoted his life to it, loves the country and he is instantly relieved of command for telling the truth. What does that tell you about our leadership? 

HOLLAWAY: Well, what it tells me about the leadership is that they're not leaders at all. I mean, in the absence of leadership lead, that's something that we always say, and it might be impossible for somebody to comprehend how a Marine Corps battalion commander could say something like that in public. But I think everybody is confused. 

Like the gentleman who lost his son was talking about earlier, everybody can look at how this operation has gone and we all know that it's not right. Something is wrong here. Right? 

So, why did it go down that way? Why did it go all the way from the President through the entire chain of command and that was still an idea that got executed? Where are these military leaders that are standing up and saying no when something is wrong, right? 

I guess, they're all talking about white rage. That's what it is, right? 

CARLSON: Well, you make such -- the central point, which is, don't you need colonels who are willing to wave their hand and say, no, actually, this won't work. It's nothing personal. But shouldn't they be allowed to think clearly and help their generals make the best decisions? Don't you want this? 

HOLLAWAY: I mean, that's what you should expect out of your subordinates. 

If you're a general officer, you should expect that the people that work under you will be honest with you about their assessments. And when you disallow that, right, when you cut off that pipeline for information upward, we see what's happened today, right? 

Our military operations have no goal or purpose anymore, for the most part, at least not en masse. And, you know, it begs the question, this was so messed up. It was so poorly executed, not only in the planning, but also in the execution. Could these people possibly be this incompetent? Or is there something else going on? 

I'll save you the suspense, Tucker, about natural immunity. The reason that it's not being talked about is because it's free, brother, that's why. 

Right? Let's not pretend like that's not the case. 

But in this scenario, I cannot figure out how it made it through all of this and still happened with all these generals involved. General Milley, for example, he was involved in the Panama invasion. That is the 82nd Airborne and Ranger all over the place doing exactly what they should have been doing here. 

CARLSON: Now you're -- I've been thinking what you just said since the first day. I have no evidence. So we haven't made much of it on TV, but we're going to pull that thread because I agree with you completely. 

Dan, I appreciate coming on tonight. Thank you. 

HOLLAWAY: Yes, sir. 

CARLSON: So Gavin Newsom has been such a stupendously awful governor. How bad? So bad that he could very well lose his job in a recall election 18 days from now when voters are finally allowed to render their view of how he has done. We're certainly hoping he loses his job. 

But regardless of whether he does, we have learned a lot. We've learned who cares more about power than about human lives. Who are those people? 

They're the ones who are still sending money and support to Gavin Newsom despite all he has done to destroy California and harm the people who still live there. 

Joe Biden was among the very first politicians to renew his endorsement of Gavin Newsom. He didn't even hesitate. 

Newsom makes the Democratic Party more powerful and that's what Biden cares about. That's all he cares about. 

But consider who sent cash to Gavin Newsom. Reed Hastings of Netflix gave Gavin Newsom more than $3 million to fight this new emergence of democracy in California. You can't have democracy. 

George Soros sent a quarter million. Steve Jobs's widow, Steven Spielberg, Eric Schmidt of Google sent hundreds of thousands more. 

Now billionaires like this aren't simply endorsing Gavin Newsom, they are endorsing California, the state he has created and here's what it looks like in case you can't recall. 

That's human suffering. It's destruction. It is filth, and they are paying for it. You should remember that they're paying for it no matter what happens in the California recall election because it tells you everything. 

That's about it for us tonight. You can watch a brand new episode of "Tucker Carlson Today" on FOX nation. 

We'll see you Monday. 

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