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This is a rush transcript from "Your World," May 13, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, will Title 42 stay or go?

A court fight today. The answer could determine what happens at the border maybe for months.

Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto, and this is "Your World" focusing right now on a battle back and forth on Title 42 and its legality. Twenty state A.G.s say there is something very illegal going on here by just dumping it, as the administration wants to do on the 23rd of this month, about 10 days away.

Let's get the read from Bill Melugin right now in Eagle Pass, how things are looking at the border -- Bill.

BILL MELUGIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Neil, good afternoon to you.

That federal court hearing on Title 42 wrapped up a little bit earlier this afternoon. It ended with the judge deciding to take no action yet. What that means is that, for now, Title 42 is still set to drop on May 23. That can change, however, when the judge comes up with his decision.

He could decide to do an injunction or something else. So we will keep tabs on that. In the meantime, it's chaos down here. I want to show you some video we have shot just right here today. Take a look at this. This was earlier this morning right here, where we're standing in Eagle Pass.

This was a single massive group of about 150 illegal immigrants that cross in the middle of broad daylight, right in the middle -- right in front of the Texas National Guard and Border Patrol here in Eagle Pass. This was mostly made up of Cubans, Venezuelans and Colombians.

But this was the third day in a row that we have seen a massive group of more than 100 crossing in this exact same spot at pretty much the exact same time, 10:45 a.m. local morning -- local time each morning like clockwork.

And these huge groups are a massive drain on Border Patrol resources. But this certainly wasn't the only group today. Take a look at this. Just a short time later, the second piece of video here, another group crossed in the exact same spot. This was a group of 52 we first saw crossing in the river, once again, another group of mostly Colombians, Venezuelans and Cubans.

And, for this group, there was only one single Border Patrol agent on hand to receive them once they got here into Eagle Pass. Again, they have to call other agents in from other areas. And that depletes their manpower in other sectors of the border.

And keep in mind, all this happening while Title 42 is still in effect right now. And DHS is projecting things could get three times worse come May 23, once Title 42 actually drops.

Last thing we'd like to show you, take a look at this piece of video, exact same location again this morning here in Eagle Pass. What you're looking at are a group of suspected smugglers in the river escorting a group of migrants illegally into Eagle Pass. You will see one of the smugglers actually takes a life jacket off one of the women, and then the smugglers go back into Mexico.

Pretty rare for us to actually get a look at the smugglers as they're actually physically doing their thing in the middle of the river. And U.S. law enforcement essentially just has to watch. They can't do anything unless these guys cross over to the U.S. side of the border.

And back out here live here in Del Rio Sector, where we are, Border Patrol reporting just in a seven-hour span, they arrested two convicted sex offenders, child sex offenders, both of them Mexican nationals who were both previously deported, both of them apparently trying to come back.

Thankfully, though, border agents able to arrest both of them -- send it back to you.

CAVUTO: Thank you, Bill, very much.

Bill Melugin in Eagle Pass.

Jacqui Heinrich with us right now on the White House and how they're responding to all these developments -- Jacqui.

JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Neil.

Well, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki got some questions in the briefing about how the Biden administration might respond to this upcoming federal court ruling that will determine whether they can follow through with their plans to lift Title 42 on May 23.

She was asked how that would all work, if there was a delay, whether it would change any plans at the White House. She said that preparations have been ongoing for Title 42 to lift for months. It includes sending more resources to the border to increase processing capacity, but she would not weigh in on how she thinks this case is going to go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Obviously, I'm not going to prejudge a court ruling that hasn't quite happened yet and what it will mean or prejudge what the Department of Justice may do in response.

I'm sure there will be more discussion about that if and when they rule today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEINRICH: Attorneys general bringing that suit are thinking the judge might lean in their favor because he was willing to issue that temporary restraining order, which they took is a sign that he wants the White House to pump the brakes.

And they're issuing warnings again that, if Title 42 is lifted, this migrant surge will overwhelm law enforcement and communities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK BRNOVICH (R), ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL: You never -- I learned a long time ago not to predict what a judge will do. But the fact that he was willing to issue a temporary restraining order and tell the Biden administration to stop and pump the brakes is a good sign that he's inclined to -- he is inclined to rule in our favor.

It's overwhelming our social services. it's overwhelming our border communities. And so there's a great fiscal cost, but there's also this toll in human lives that's being paid as a result of the failure of Joe Biden and Secretary Mayorkas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEINRICH: So part of the DHS plan to address the migrant surge at the border involves sending 600 law enforcement personnel from other government agencies down to the border to help with the surge, to help out with Customs and Border Protection, which is a force already 23,000-people strong and struggling even without this coming surge of up to 18,000 migrants a day that is expected when Title 42 is lifted.

Of course, that is much more than the average of 7,000 that we're seeing right now. And this group of border state attorneys general say what's really going to get worse is the cartels and fentanyl that is going to be coming across that border -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Jacqui, thank you very much for that.

Jacqui Heinrich at the White House following all of that.

You have heard a lot of these migrants who are no longer being processed in Texas, and they spread about in places like Washington, D.C., the latest in New York City, where a good many have just arrived.

Brandon Judd is the Border Patrol Union president.

Brandon, I have a feeling we could be seeing a lot more of these flights and/or buses of those trying to find their way here beyond Texas. How do you feel about that, that process has not been interrupted; in fact, it's picking up considerable steam?

BRANDON JUDD, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: Neil, every single one of my agents and myself, we're extremely upset. We feel beaten down.

We feel like this administration has not given us the enforcement tools. They have given us the processing tools, but they haven't given us the enforcement tools to stop this crisis that currently goes on. In fact, when we process people through quicker, that just means more people are going to continue to come.

That is inviting people to come here. We're hoping for the best. But there's been nothing from this administration that has given us any hope that there's going to be a light at the end of the tunnel. This just continues to get worse and worse and worse.

And the American public is paying for it.

CAVUTO: Brandon, I always wonder, what will come of this decision, whether they will just remove this Title 42 suspension or just suspend the suspension, you know what I mean, like push it back another month or so.

That won't help you in any way.

JUDD: No, it doesn't.

We have already seen what happens when you cut out segments. As Bill was reporting down there, on -- in Del Rio, when we cut out segments, when we give carve-outs to Venezuelans, Cubans, Colombians, which, by the way, we do not exercise on Title 42 on any of those countries, that just invites more people to come.

So when you look at that, right now, we're only expelling about 55 percent of the people that cross the border illegally. Once that goes away completely, that just means everybody from around the world are going to continue to come.

So it's just a Band-Aid to push it back. What we have to have is, we have to have permanent solutions. And, Neil, you and I have both talked about what those solutions are. And the Biden administration knows what they need to do. They just fail to do it. They will not put this -- the proper enforcement tools in place, because they pander to their far left, open border base.

CAVUTO: Do you know, Brandon, whether the administration, if it were to get its way to stop Title 42 on the 23rd, that they're going to beef up manpower, womanpower on the border with your people to deal with what even they acknowledge could be an increase, and likely a significant increase, to your point, in migrants trying to get through?

JUDD: No, I have never been more disappointed in a plan than what I saw from DHS, that six-pillar plan.

All it's talking about is moving people through the system faster. It's not talking about any enforcement tools, except for pillar number three, where they say it's going to be expedited removal. But it's already been proven under the Obama administration that expedited removal doesn't work, because all somebody has to do is claim that they have a fear of going back to the country.

Then that order, that expedited removal order, is canceled, and they're put through the asylum process and released into the United States. So, nothing in those pillars does it give enforcement tools. All it's doing is talking about moving people through the system faster.

And that doesn't work. That just encourages more illegal immigration.

CAVUTO: Wild stuff.

Brandon, I don't know how you keep up with it, but you do. Young man thank you.

Brandon Judd, the Border Patrol union president, dealing this -- with his head on.

JUDD: Thank you, Neil.

CAVUTO: And, for him, this isn't about politics. This is a life-and-death - - the fentanyl thing, the drug thing, it's everything. It's crime. It's the whole shooting works there. And he just wants -- wants everyone to slow down, stop, think about the importance of this.

John Yoo on the legal implications of all of this right now, the former deputy assistant attorney general, following this very, very closely.

John, from a legal perspective here, what's the best someone like a Brandon Judd can hope for out of this judge, to push it back, say that the suspension was entirely unnecessary? What?

JOHN YOO, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Under the law here, the federal government does have the power to lift what's called this Title 42 restriction, which is what prevents people from coming across the border, because of fear that they might be bringing COVID with them.

Eventually, the government can lift it. What this lawsuit is about by the attorney generals is that the Biden administration did not do it in the right way. They can't just lift it immediately. They have to go through what's called notice and comment. They have to take in comment. They have to put the public on notice. They have to consider all the public input they get, and then they can make their decision.

Instead, they just short-circuited that whole process and issued it right away. Then the second thing, I think this is the other problem that the Biden administration has, is that the position they're taking seems inconsistent with the other positions they're taking in other COVID litigation.

CAVUTO: Right.

YOO: We have talked on the show before about the mask mandate, about the vaccine mandate, where the government is saying, no, COVID still a danger. We have still got to require everyone on planes to wear masks. We want to vaccinate everyone in the country.

That doesn't seem consistent with the idea of, like, COVID being brought by aliens crossing the border, where we don't know if they're vaccinated, we don't know if they have been wearing masks, is OK.

CAVUTO: Yes, the other part I wondered about, they don't -- they want to keep this sort of on the CDC health grounds. I get that.

But they have been reminding -- I don't know if it was part of their case today -- to say that, if Title 42 were such a great thing, why are we having this surge we're having with it in place now? How legally sure of their ground are they on that?

YOO: So this is the thing that the by administration has to survive, is that the district judge, the one here in Louisiana, who then they can go to the Fifth Circuit, which is based in Texas and Louisiana, that judge can say, I think you're -- you, the agency, I think your views are arbitrary and capricious. You don't have any facts. You don't have any reasons.

And the problem is that, as you just said, Neil, COVID could go up or down. We might have just left a wave. But what if a wave comes back? If you drop that ability to block COVID-carrying immigrants across the border, then you're kind of defenseless if another wave comes back.

CAVUTO: Right.

YOO: And that -- to a judge, that could make no sense.

CAVUTO: That's -- I never looked at it that way.

John, I learn something new from you every visit. So, thank you very much.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: John Yoo, the former deputy assistant attorney general.

Very quickly, I want to bring your attention, before we take a break here, to the corner of Wall and Broad. We had a strong day, a comeback day, for the markets, but still down on the week. The Dow, the S&P, the Nasdaq, although up smartly today, maybe on the notion that they overdid the selling, it didn't remove the fact that we sold for the seventh straight week in a row for these market averages here.

And that's something that has not changed. In that time, we have made the Nasdaq into a bear market, the S&P 500 not too far from a bear market, and the Dow well into, well, a correction that could be a bear market, but, for today, stable news, confident news out of companies and the belief that maybe they overdid it in the prior days. Anyone's guess.

In the meantime, Elon Musk is reassessing things, we're told, that the Twitter deal is temporarily on hold. People immediately seized on that with one word: Why?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, it was a terse and to-the-point tweet, the Twitter deal temporarily on hold, then, from Elon Musk, the richest man in the world, a reassessment of the takeover that might not be what he thought it was going to be, or the company what he thought it was going to be, or at least the number of customers it claims to have.

It gets kind of in the weeds, but I have noticed, with Kelly O'Grady following this story, she can explain those weeds.

Kelly, is he's saying, I'm not interested in this? What is going on here?

KELLY O'GRADY, FOX BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's high praise, Neil. I will try and do it justice.

But, listen, the drama continues, and on Friday the 13th, no less, I mean, Elon Musk sending shockwaves that the Twitter deal is on hold. He tweeted this morning -- quote -- "Twitter deal on hold pending details supporting the calculation that spam fake accounts do indeed represent less than 5 percent of users."

At its last report, the company had confirmed less than 5 percent was accurate, though admitted it was an estimate. But this has investors spooked. I mean, Twitter stock closed down almost 10 percent on the news, nearly $14 below Elon's offer. That means the market value of the company is roughly $13 billion below the $44 billion deal.

I mean, that shows how much leverage Musk has. If the deal falls through, Twitter stock may not recover. And this all could be a tactic for the Tesla CEO to renegotiate for a lower purchase price amidst tech stocks being down across the board.

Musk did follow up with a tweet saying he's -- quote -- "still committed to the acquisition." Now, if he's looking for a reason to walk, it will be difficult for him to get out of the deal without getting sued by Twitter, as he reportedly declined due diligence to close the deal faster

That $1 billion breakup fee could become far greater. But if it surfaces the company misrepresented info when he pokes under the hood, that does give him cause. Now, Twitter is operating under the assumption the takeover is happening, just yesterday firing key leaders and freezing hiring.

The CEO weighed in just now, saying -- quote -- "While I expect the deal to close, we need to be prepared for all scenarios and do what's right for Twitter" -- so, positive, but he's leaving the door open.

Neil, I will leave you with this. Regardless of what happens, I mean, Musk does need to be careful how much his comments shift the stock price. He's already under fire from the Tesla shareholders and the SEC for the impact of his tweeting.

CAVUTO: If he walks away, he has to pay a billion bucks, right?

So, for someone like, that's like money under the couch cushions?

(LAUGHTER)

O'GRADY: Well, yes, but he has to have cause.

CAVUTO: Right.

O'GRADY: So, there have been deals in the past where companies have gotten sued for billions and billions, much more than the chump change for him.

CAVUTO: True enough.

O'GRADY: So, he has a lot to deal with there.

CAVUTO: All right, we will watch it very closely.

Kelly, thank you very much.

Kelly O'Grady in Los Angeles on this.

By the way -- and then Kelly was mentioning the stocks involved here -- Twitter down on this news today. Tesla, which would be the currency that Elon Musk would use or have collateral to use, up on the day appreciably.

To Susan Li on and Scott Martin of Kingsview Asset Management.

Susan, looking at that, if I'm a Tesla shareholder, and I think the guy, the genius behind my company might not pursue or be distracted by this other company, I'm going to be happy.

SUSAN LI, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, which is his third company, yes.

CAVUTO: Conversely, if I'm a Twitter shareholder, I'm going to go the other way, because this thing is looking dicier, at least at its price.

What are you hearing?

LI: Yes.

And if I'm Elon Musk, and I'm pledging some of my wealth in that $44 billion takeover offer, I want the best deal, especially if social media companies are down 25 percent, discounted 25 percent since I made that bid.

And Elon Musk, he's not just putting up this bid by himself. So he's probably huddled with the Larry Ellisons and other potential private equity...

CAVUTO: Right.

LI: ... those other financiers in this deal, saying, should we be paying $54.20, when Twitter's trading at $40? I think there's probably been a rethink, and especially in these times, by the way, where a billion dollars, yes, that sounds like a lot for most people, for Elon Musk, not much.

And especially, if he can get the property for cheaper, for $10 billion cheaper, that might be a deal for him.

CAVUTO: You know, Scott, I wonder what the background for this could have been or backdrop, and that is, save today, the huge sell-off in technology shares, even Tesla shares, to the point that he's lost tens of billions of dollars on paper.

Now, he's still the world's richest man, by far. I get that. But do you think, secretly or privately, he reassesses this, that that continues, I have got problems?

SCOTT MARTIN, FOX BUSINESS CONTRIBUTOR: Great call. It was a game. I think was a game from the start, as we talked about on FBN a couple of times, Neil.

Here's the thing, though. Musk won, because, remember, the libs that got freaked out about when he was coming in to even talk about buying Twitter, and then when he made the offer, and they accepted it?

I mean, I watched the reaction of a lot of the left-wing liberals and they got freaked out. I mean, they dedicated their whole shows, their whole Twitter accounts to how this was a takeover and it was going to mess up free speech and all that stuff. So he laughed.

I mean, he could have got the reaction that he wanted. And, to Susan's point, the stock was probably -- the buy was probably too much, $54.20. Everybody knows why he did that.

CAVUTO: Right.

MARTIN: He's probably going to come back in and say, hey, I'm going to offer $42. And if you don't know what that means, go watch "Dazed and Confused," all right?

CAVUTO: Right. Yes.

MARTIN: Because here's the thing.

(LAUGHTER)

MARTIN: He got kind of the reaction that he wanted, and now he's going to win.

CAVUTO: The 420 in that, by the way, for people, it's a pot reference.

MARTIN: It's a family show.

CAVUTO: Exactly.

MARTIN: Family show.

CAVUTO: The April 20, recognized pot thing. So, he could play here.

LI: And there's no second bidder, mind you.

CAVUTO: That's right.

But, on that point -- and it's a very good one on Scott's point, Susan.

This issue with the technology sector in general, it had an extremely, extremely rough week. And a lot of the stocks have been decimated.

We can get off those boards, guys.

I'm wondering here, talking about the markets now and talking about where they stand, this deal notwithstanding, I have a feeling that a lot of tech investors are debating, all right, I'm up a little bit, I'm going to cash out now when the getting's good.

LI: Yes.

CAVUTO: Or how does this play, you think?

LI: And what's the pain threshold?

Is $11 trillion in losses enough? As Scotty will tell you, in these type of bear market sell-offs, you have markets and sellers really exhausting themselves out, meaning that they run out of things to sell. And you usually want to sell the things that you like the most last.

And I think the fact that Apple fell into bear market territory, down some 20 percent from recent peaks yesterday, probably the most widely held stock on the planet, the most liked, since it's a cash machine and returning a lot of cash to shareholders.

CAVUTO: Right.

LI: And that's why Warren Buffett bought in.

I think that was an inflection point, thinking, OK, well, I'm already selling my favorite stocks. What else is there to sell? And maybe there isn't that much more in the portfolio. And especially on a Friday, I think it's indicative. If stock markets go up, especially when you heard Jerome Powell yesterday talking about short-term pain to get inflation lower and raising interest rates by one full percentage point at least this summer, and stocks end the week lower -- higher -- pardon me -- and stocks rally into the weekend, I think that's positive.

CAVUTO: If you have a rally that you want to believe, Scott, you normally need to see it at least for a second day. And the rallies we have seen have been one-day wonders.

I'm not dismissing this or pooh-poohing it. I'm just saying that's been the way it's been going. How important will Monday trading be to you?

MARTIN: Big, although, today, to Susan's point, was great.

I mean, we actually held a rally most of the day and rallied a bit into the close.

CAVUTO: That's true.

MARTIN: I will tell you what, Neil.

The only thing left in this market, though -- there aren't a lot of sellers left, it doesn't look like, but there's still emotion. And so, as an investment manager for many of our clients, and even my own account, and both a Twitter holder and Tesla holder -- so, I need my medication this weekend.

(LAUGHTER)

MARTIN: I will tell you what. When you're buying stocks, when you buy something, and you have to go to the lavatory afterwards, that's probably a good buy.

But if you're buying something and it feels like it's a surefire win, you're complacent, this is a can't-miss, that's when you should be selling.

CAVUTO: All right.

MARTIN: So take your emotion, flip it around, and that will tell you what to do.

CAVUTO: I could help you with that medication thing, young man,

But that's a whole separate issue.

(LAUGHTER)

MARTIN: Send it over.

CAVUTO: Yes. All right.

MARTIN: I'm out!

CAVUTO: Guys, thank you both very much. Have a wonderful weekend.

Well, inflation is still a real problem here, and it's not only investors fearing it and average folks citing it. Now a number of top Democrats are talking to the president to talk about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: The great debate over forgiving college student loan debt. Some think the idea is fantastic.

We found quite a few who said, wait a minute. That's not fair -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, this probably doesn't represent startling news you, even worthy of a FOX Alert, which is why we didn't do a FOX Alert, because it's like, duh.

For people in America, inflation is a very big problem in America; 23 percent are saying it's a moderately big problem. And it's only 6 percent - - they have got to be ungodly rich -- are saying, no, it's a small problem or not a problem at all, so why are you bothering us?

Well, the bottom line is, it's out of control. And it remains out of control. And it's gotten so bad that we celebrate when it's not rising as quickly as it was, but it's still rising at multidecade levels.

To Senator Joe Lieberman with us, the former Connecticut senator, the 2000 vice presidential nominee, much, much more.

Senator, now we're hearing that many Democrats and the powers that be are indeed talking to the White House, right, and they're talking to President Biden directly that this has got to be topic one, job one, issue one day in and day out. What do you think of that?

FMR. SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (I-CT): Well, I think that's right.

I mean, there are obviously other challenges that the Biden administration has. I mean, the president, I think, has to try to convince the American people that he's a center-left Democrat and not a left-left Democrat. That's an underlying, continuing problem, and that his administration...

CAVUTO: So, why can't he be, Senator, also, this is also on me Democrat? He's pointed the finger at everyone else but himself.

LIEBERMAN: Yes.

CAVUTO: I'm not saying he's responsible for all of this.

But how can he connect with the American people, when it's happening under his watch, when it's not nearly as short as he claimed, and just say, all right, part of this is on me, but I'm going to work with us to make sure this problem goes away?

LIEBERMAN: Yes.

No, I totally agree with you. I think that's part of regaining the confidence of a lot of people in the country, that he's leveling with them. There's no question that, though there are a lot of other issues boiling like the Supreme Court decision and a war in Ukraine...

CAVUTO: Right.

LIEBERMAN: ... it is inflation that strikes people in the face every day in this country, most people.

And he's got to be talking about and doing something about it. Now, part of the problem is, what can he do? I do think that the -- in the short run, which is, politically speaking, between now and the November elections, the Federal Reserve plays the largest part.

It really did, by now, by its own acknowledgement, wait too long, and underestimate how serious inflation would be. Now they have got to deal with it. But they have got to deal with it in a way that doesn't send us into a recession.

Second thing is, I think the Biden administration has to do everything it can to make sure that there's not another outbreak of COVID-19 pandemic because that would again exacerbate the problem by taking people out of the labor force, limiting supply chain and creating a problem.

CAVUTO: Right.

LIEBERMAN: And then I think the final thing, maybe it's clear, that the administration and Congress unfortunately did contribute to the inflation problem by putting a lot of money in people's pockets, stimulus checks, unemployment benefits, done with good intentions.

But there was more money out there than there were goods. And that's -- that causes inflation. So there's got to be some limits on spending right now.

CAVUTO: I don't think we're going to see that, though, at least given some of the ideas they have cooked up. Spending is a big part of it.

LIEBERMAN: Yes, but they got to be careful, because they're going to make the problem worse.

CAVUTO: Yes.

LIEBERMAN: I mean, there are a few other things he can do.

None of them are popular, really, but they may have an effect. For instance, we could try to negotiate some reductions in tariffs on goods coming into America, including from China...

CAVUTO: From China, yes.

LIEBERMAN: ... because those tariffs increase the price of consumer goods for people here.

And then, finally, we got to improve our relations with the Gulf Arab countries, who can pump a lot more oil into the world economy. And part of why they're not doing it now is not only for their own profit, but because they don't have confidence in us to side with them as against their main enemy, which is Iran.

CAVUTO: Yes.

LIEBERMAN: So, I mean, our policy toward Iran affects the willingness of the Arab world to give more oil and lower gasoline prices.

CAVUTO: Well, those are big tasks. We will see what happens.

LIEBERMAN: They are.

CAVUTO: Joe Lieberman, very good seeing you again, my friend. Have a safe weekend.

LIEBERMAN: You too, Neil. Have a great weekend.

CAVUTO: All right.

LIEBERMAN: Take care.

CAVUTO: Senator Lieberman.

When we come back, looking at Ukraine, not so much the advance that Ukrainian troops are making against Russian soldiers, but a threat in the last 24 hours from Vladimir Putin, not toward Ukraine, toward Finland.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, Russian soldiers are having a devil of time in Ukraine. That is an understatement.

But word right now that Ukrainian forces took out an entire Russian armored column as it was trying to cross a river in the Russian-controlled Donbass region raise concerns anew that even places that our strongholds for Vladimir Putin aren't so strong.

Let's get the read from Lieutenant Colonel Bob Maginnis, author of many books, "Alliance of Evil" just one of them.

Colonel, they're having a devil of a time, aren't they, the Russians, but even in regions where you would think they have the edge, maybe still do, but not nearly as much as we thought. What's going on?

LT. COL. BOB MAGINNIS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Yes, drone shots of that river crossing are just tragic for the Russians.

They tried three times, and they left in place the hulks of many tanks, based upon locals. And so what's happened over the last several months, Neil, is that the Russians have taken a real whacking. They have lost maybe 20-something-thousand troops.

They have lost a lot of their mainline battle tanks, by some estimates, 500, 600. And, of course, what's happened overall is that the Russian capability is diminishing as the Ukrainian, interestingly, capability is increasing.

So what we have here is that Mr. Putin, his ambitions haven't changed, according to DNI Haines. However, his capability with his conventional forces isn't what is needed if he really intends to not only capture the Donbass, but all the way to Moldova, much less much more of Ukraine.

CAVUTO: Colonel, I'm thinking, if I'm Finland, and I have got a better- than-800-long-mile border with Russia, and I'm being threatened by Vladimir Putin because I want to join NATO, and I'm looking at all the problems he's having in Ukraine, even in regions he supposedly dominates, I'm not as worried.

Or should I be?

MAGINNIS: Well, they are neighbors.

They have 800 miles of common border. But the Finns have a very capable military. In fact, the Finns have been working hand in glove with NATO for many, many years. They have all the modern and sophisticated weaponry. And, of course, I think that, in a matter of weeks, they will probably be NATO members.

And then we will really increase the number of exercises in the region. And it's quite possible -- this is -- Putin doesn't want to hear this -- but that the U.S. will put a permanent force in Finland. And if that does happen, then what's happened in Ukraine is going to really be just a precursor to something that perhaps many years from now may happen again.

CAVUTO: Colonel Bob Maginnis, thank you, my friend. Have a good weekend, a safe one, at that.

Colonel Bob Maginnis on all of that and some of the problems the Russians are having.

We're going to be exploring this in a lot more detail tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. Eastern time on my weekend show, "Cavuto Live," where we pick apart the strategy that is just not going that well for Russia, and any hope that it will anytime soon.

In the meantime, what's happening with gas prices? In case you're counting, virtually every day could this week, we hit a new record. It happened again today. How far does this go?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: Another day, another record has been the case virtually every single day this week, a new record for gas prices, new record for diesel prices.

But do not say that the former energy secretary of the United States didn't warn you. When last he was with us, he said the inexorable direction -- this was long before the Ukraine war -- would be prices moving up, and smartly so.

Rick Perry with us now, the former Texas governor and energy secretary for President Trump.

Secretary, Governor, good to have you.

FMR. GOV. RICK PERRY (R-TX): It's good to be with you, Neil. Thanks.

CAVUTO: You know, you did see a lot of this coming long before the war.

And so a lot of this was built on a policy that this president implemented almost within hours of taking office. In fact, it was, where he shut down Keystone. And you reminded a lot of folks then that oil trades in the open markets, and that was quickly taken as a signal this administration didn't like traditional fossil fuel, and this was going to be the tune and the tone.

How bad does this get?

PERRY: It could get very bad.

And I suggest that it will. I wish that wasn't the message. But -- and here's one of the reasons, is that diesel is what runs this country. When you think about the trucks that move the groceries, all the other produce around in this country, diesel is right at the heart of it. That's one of the things that's really driving up the cost of food.

And that comes from heavy crude. Heavy crude was accessed through two countries, interestingly, Russia and Venezuela. I will suggest to you the Biden administration knew and know what's going on today, that their policies are going to drive up the cost of inflation, particularly energy costs, which, in turn, multiplies into the inflation factor.

But here's the issue. We saw Biden making these decisions, the Biden administration making these decisions. And I think it's one of the reasons that there were people whispering in his ear when the Ukraine war started that we can't stop taking crude from Russia because it's going to really drive up the cost of diesel and the heavy...

CAVUTO: But they have actually driven it further, though, right? I mean, they -- that is, the administration teased opening some lands and licenses and permits to oil companies, then, this past week out of the blue, shutting virtually all of that down.

I mean, whatever people's views on this subject, the politics of it and all, I can't imagine a worse-timed move.

PERRY: Absolutely.

I don't think there is a scenario where you could hurt the American people more than what this administration is doing and is about to do. We're fixing to go into one of the high traveling seasons of the year. And gasoline prices, I think we have not seen the top by any sense of the imagination.

And stopping the -- the message that it sends to producers for the spokesperson in the White House to stand up and say, well, we have all these permits, and they just -- nobody's interested, well, Ms. Psaki, the reason they're not interested is because they know that you all will play the old "Peanuts" game and jerk the football away from the from the player.

Nobody trusts this White House to leave regulations in place. They harum- scarum stop leasing.

CAVUTO: Yes.

PERRY: I mean, it's just crazy, a million acres...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: It's scary too. It's very scary, too, because it just compounded a situation that at least,if they had left alone, would have at least kept things where they were, which was not great to begin with.

Rick Perry, thank you very, very much, the former energy secretary of the United States.

In the meantime, college loan forgiveness, it's all the rage, and the administration is still kicking it around, in fact, quite seriously so, but it's not as easy as you think, and it's certainly not as cheap -- after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's really expensive to go to college these days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think that's a good idea.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, I think it's kind of a good thing. But if you already paid them back, then that kind of sucks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have student loans, as a matter of fact.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I graduated with my undergrad last year, so I have been trying to pay those back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I'm graduating this week. So, absolutely, that is my thing. Next week, that will be all be me for the rest of next -- many years of my life, I will be paying them off, and not looking forward to it, but it's part of life, I guess.

QUESTION: A lot of talk recently about student loans being forgiven. How do you feel about that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's wonderful. It's really expensive to go to college these days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think that's a good idea. We got inflation up to our necks right now. Where's that money going to come from?

People who don't go to school are going to finance people going to school? That doesn't make sense.

QUESTION: And how do you feel about some of those people who are getting their student loans forgiven?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I mean, I think it's kind of a good thing. But if you -- if you already paid them back, then that kind of sucks.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know I'm not lucky enough to get them forgiven. Yes, I wish I was one, because I'm stuck for a lot of many years, and not looking forward to it.

QUESTION: How do you think that's going to impact the economy, especially with inflation going on?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it's going to impact it in some shape, form or fashion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the future, inflation whenever -- and the rates rising with the Fed and everything, so kind of a little bit nervous, yes. But, I mean, at least I have a job lined up.

(LAUGHTER)

QUESTION: How do you think that people who have paid student loans already feel about the likelihood of people having their own loans now forgiven?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That doesn't seem too fair. There's a lot of things about forgiveness that seem unfair. And it's going to be inconsistent.

It's -- a policy is not fair to everybody. Some people get cut short. Some people are the -- are the winners. It doesn't seem fair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: Well, wasn't that what that John Kennedy once said? Life is unfair. We have to deal with that.

Jimmy Failla says, well, maybe deal with it like this, of course, funny guy, FOX News Radio host, "FOX Across America," good read of how folks are feeling, because I'm thinking Jimmy, when we were younger, and we were dealing with college debt and all that, there was never this possibility that a good deal of it could be forgiven or just wiped out. What do you think of this?

JIMMY FAILLA, HOST, "FOX ACROSS AMERICA": Well, to be clear, none of it's really being forgiven and wiped out.

The college still wants their money.

CAVUTO: Absolutely.

FAILLA: It's just other people getting the bill. This is the scam.

And let me be very clear, Neil. I don't have a dog in this fight. I went to community college and majored in intro to Xbox. You know what I'm saying?

(LAUGHTER)

FAILLA: I was playing "Madden."

CAVUTO: That explains everything.

FAILLA: Yes. Does it ever, Neil.

I didn't have to write an admissions letter. I had to give some guy named Spider a bag of weed to get in.

(LAUGHTER)

FAILLA: But stick with me, Neil, because here's the deal. And this is where it's a racket, OK?

Number one, forgiving the debt, as they're calling it, does nothing to control the real issue, which is the soaring cost of college tuition. To be clear, $10,000 worth of debt is like two books at the bookstore these days. And that's the thing we need to tackle, is that colleges have such a monopoly. And the prices just keep going up, up, up.

But when everybody says to you, oh, it's so -- it sucks for these kids, because they have this major debt, and they're stuck with it, maybe it does suck. But you know what sucks more, Neil? Being the person who didn't even go to that school who's now paying for some of it in their tax bill.

So, to oversimplify this, imagine this is like Applebee's mailing you a bill for a meal you didn't even get to eat. Like, yo, Biden at least stick some chicken fingers in the envelope.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Well, it's funny to -- I mean, they say that no one's going to pay for it. It's just added to the debt. Well, we all pay for that when it's added to the debt, whether it's $$30 trillion or $31 trillion in the end.

FAILLA: Yes.

CAVUTO: And it just keeps getting bigger.

But I had a chance to speak to Mitch Daniels, the president of Purdue University, where they have kept tuition frozen for the better part of 10 years, Jimmy. And he was saying, this sounds good on paper, but it will embolden universities to keep raising the price if they know that kids one way or the other are getting a break in this regard.

And you can't break that cycle. This is something that breaks that cycle.

FAILLA: Of course.

And this is the other issue, too, is, which kids are getting a break? According to the economic data we have at our disposal, the higher income earners are the kids who have these degrees. So, the AOCs of the world that are driving Teslas are now getting bailed out by the Jimmy Faillas of the world that are hitchhiking or driving a yellow cab when they're not here at FOX News.

And that's the real racket, man, is, they're taking personal responsibility out of society. And I can tell you, as someone who really, I mean, for all intents and purposes, literally had to fight to get here -- when you're driving a cab, you're getting cut off and shot at.

But the point is, that self-reliance is the ultimate survival skill. And if you just tell kids, oh...

CAVUTO: Look at you now. Look at you now. They could look at you and say, I don't need college. I don't need -- this guy's a big star.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: So who is he to lecture me on getting a little break? What do you say?

FAILLA: I mean, it is. I'm definitely getting treated differently now that I know Neil Cavuto.

CAVUTO: Oh, sure. That will do it every time.

FAILLA: I can't use any of the language.

CAVUTO: But, no, no, you could say that's why -- I understand the class argument they make.

But they come around say, well, life is a crapshoot. You have done very well as a result of taking that, rolling that dice, doing it at your own way. That could be a very good message for kids of all sort, right?

FAILLA: Well, that's the thing I -- that's what I try to say every time I'm on the air.

I remind people that I drove a cab, right, and I worked my way up to this.

CAVUTO: Right.

FAILLA: I went to community college. I didn't come from what would be considered a conventional background.

But it worked out because I put the work in, man, and, yes, some low-level extortion and bribery attempts.

(LAUGHTER)

FAILLA: But let's not get off-message here.

CAVUTO: Has a message. Has a message.

FAILLA: It's a long season. Nobody goes undefeated.

But, yes, the truth is, if kids make a decision in life of college or any other type of consequence, they need to be held accountable, because there's going to come a point where, yes, maybe they bail out your student loan debt, but there are other consequential decisions that you're not getting a free pass on.

And if you don't know how to take that responsibility...

CAVUTO: Fair enough.

FAILLA: ... then we're kind of, in the long game, selling them short.

So, I don't know. Maybe save some money. Go to community college like me. We're actually having our reunion this week at Rikers Island, if anybody wants to come by.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: That's fine. Ba-dum-bum.

Jimmy Failla, thank you very, very much.

We will be exploring this issue a lot more and dealing with the legal fallout of that interview with Jimmy.

But, in the meantime, we will see you then, 10:00 a.m. Eastern time.

Here comes "The Five."

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