What's Next in the C.U. Saga?

This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," March 7, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: Now for the top story tonight, joining us from Denver with what happens next in the C.U. soap opera, our pal Craig Silverman, KHOW radio talk show host and attorney, and Lisa Wayne, a law professor at the University of Colorado, who supports President Hoffman. So did this resignation come as a surprise to you, Professor Wayne?

PROF. LISA WAYNE, UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO: It did come as a surprise. It came as a shock to us. And you know, I think she's being offered up as a compromise. I think it's sad that she feels like she can't take it anymore.

There's no question that there's an institutional mess at C.U. A lot of that she inherited. A lot of that she should have maybe stepped up to the plate a little bit stronger.

But she's done a lot of good things for the university and it's been a disastrous culmination for her. And she's leaving. She's stepping down. And I think we were surprised. And I wish she was not doing that.

O'REILLY: OK. Now, I understand she had to be reviewed by the Board of Regents shortly.

WAYNE: That's right.

O'REILLY: And that may be one of the reasons, that she didn't want to be booted out of there.

I feel sorry for her, too, professor. I don't think she's a bad woman. I've looked at her record. She's a registered Republican. She doesn't have any left-wing bomb-throwing inclinations. She's not fostering Ward Churchill (search ). I think she's appalled as the rest of us are.

But she was ineffectual, madam. And you can't have a campus of 52,000 students being in chaos over two major scandals. And if you're the leader, you take the hit.

WAYNE: I think there's a bigger issue here in that — the problem is this, is that we wanted a quick fix as to everything that was going on at that university. Everybody was crying out for an immediate fix that needed to happen now.

And you know what? She was fixing it. It just wasn't fast enough for the media and for a lot of people who have been going after Elizabeth Hoffman.

O'REILLY: Well, I don't know if she was fixing it, because we just find out last week...

WAYNE: She was.

O'REILLY: How can you say that? She's been in office five years. You've had football problems five years. Just last week, Craig Silverman, we find out there's a slush fund of $800,000, allegedly to buy the services of hookers and stuff like that for recruits.

And Ward Churchill continues to run around the country out of control.

How can you — do you think she was solving the problems, Craig?

CRAIG SILVERMAN, ATTORNEY/RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: No. She's had five years, and what we had was an ongoing catastrophe at the University of Colorado.

She was not pushed out of office. She was shoved. And I fear that this is a precursor of a buyout for Ward Churchill, which will just be a reward for bad behavior. I fear the Regents may be going in that direction.

This also does not bode well for C.U. football coach, Gary Barnett (search ), because a new broom usually wants to sweep clean. And...

O'REILLY: Well, he's got — they all have to go. But the buyout is interesting, because on Wednesday you expect the regents to weigh in, this Wednesday, two days from now.

SILVERMAN: You may hear about a buyout. Well, we may hear about a buyout before the end of the week. And I think that's real unfortunate.

I think Betsy Hoffman has received some less than stellar legal advice. I think this is a winner for the university. I think it's point of principle. They should stand up, because this guy not only displayed grotesque incivility and indecency to the victims of 9/11, he's going around the country urging his followers and his students to actively, violently dismantle the United States. —That's unacceptable.

O'REILLY: Well, he's certainly a traitor. Now if there is a buyout, Professor Wayne, if the university pays him a lot of money to go away, would you be OK with that?

WAYNE: I don't think that that's a good precedent to set, frankly, at all, OK?

I mean, I think what needs to happen at this point at the university level is they obviously need to change some things in terms of tenure, looking at their professors and so forth. And I don't know if that's even obvious. Maybe there are some things that need to be fixed.

But to buy him out, the precedent that that sends...

O'REILLY: Right.

WAYNE: ... across the country is if we don't like them, then pay them money and get rid of them. And I don't go along with that.

O'REILLY: They're afraid — they're afraid of theACLU (search ). They're afraid of a lawsuit...

WAYNE: Right.

SILVERMAN: And they maybe should be.

O'REILLY: Let me ask you — no, they shouldn't be. If you back down from the ACLU, they're going to eat you alive. They should go right after them. They've got enough money to challenge the ACLU.

But before she announced her resignation, President Hoffman said that Churchill is a victim of a new McCarthyism, Professor Wayne.

WAYNE: Right. Right.

O'REILLY: Do you buy that?

WAYNE: Well, you know, it's interesting, because I live in Boulder, as well. You know, the feeling in Boulder, obviously — and it's a liberal bastion, there's no question about that. But there's a different feeling about what's gone on up there.

And the thing is that most of us are feeling that, even though you may not agree with what he said — and many of us don't — but that's why you go to universities. You look for controversy. You want those kind of things that have stimulation in that environment.

O'REILLY: You go — you go to university, to take a course conducted by a traitor? And Silverman, he's McCarthy, Junior.

WAYNE: That's subjective. That's subjective.

SILVERMAN: I ...

(CROSSTALK)

O'REILLY: It's not subjective. He's a traitor. He's calling for a violent overthrow of the country. He's a traitor. That's not subjective. That's...

(CROSSTALK)

WAYNE: I disagree with you, Bill. I've read the essay. And that's not exactly what it says.

O'REILLY: He's got the tape. Silverman has got the tape. I heard the tape. He wants to sound like...

(CROSSTALK)

WAYNE: You can take anything you want out of context and argue it.

SILVERMAN: It's not out of context, Lisa, give me a break. You know what? When he accuses me of being part of a right-wing agenda, I'm a Democrat. I voted for John Kerry.

There's a problem up there at C.U. And as David Harsanyi (search ), who was a guest on your show last week from "The Denver Post," he said that it's not as if the university is under the control of liberals. It could be way out there, wacky, radical left, like Ward Churchill. It's amazing that 199 fellow professors backed this guy. There's a problem up at C.U....

O'REILLY: All right. And we want to point out...

SILVERMAN: Some of these (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to do something about them.

O'REILLY: We ought to point out "The Denver Post" did call for the resignation of the president, and she did, indeed, resign.

Thank you very much, both. Very interesting debate. We appreciate you coming on.

Our brand-new billoreilly.com (search ) poll asks you to make a prediction, now a prediction, not whether he should or not, a prediction: "Do you believe Ward Churchill will be fired by the University of Colorado?"

Now, remember, your predictions have been 100 percent accurate —we've only asked for four or five of them—so go to billoreilly.com and predict what will happen.

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