This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," October 8, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Good evening and welcome to "Tucker Carlson Tonight." Just moments ago, Brett Kavanaugh was formally sworn into the Supreme Court of the United States. It happened in Washington. And it happened, as you know, after a full month of very bitter debate.
Here is the President at the White House ceremony just minutes ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: On behalf of our nation, I want to apologize to Brett and the entire Kavanaugh family for the terrible pain and suffering you have been forced to endure.
Those who step forward to serve our country deserve a fair and dignified evaluation. Not a campaign of political and personal destruction based on lies and deception. What happened to the Kavanaugh family violates every notion of fairness, decency and due process.
Our country, a man or a woman, must always be presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty. And with that, I must state that you, sir, under historic scrutiny were proven innocent. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: A remarkable moment. You wouldn't think our leaders would need to publicly defend the presumption of innocence, and that it would be controversial when they do, but that's where we are.
Politically, of course, this whole thing turned out to be an unexpected debacle from Democrats. The lessons of their defeat are pretty clear. Creepy porn lawyers make bad national spokesmen. Screaming mobs of child activists scare normal people, who are watching at home. Wild allegations of gang-rape tend to be counterproductive.
In other words, it is in fact possible to go too far, and they did. It's not a complicated message. And yet, none of it seems obvious tonight to Democrats. The activist Left has learned an entirely different set of lessons from the Kavanaugh experience.
The Supreme Court is a sham. The Constitution is meaningless. The Electoral College must go. Only a country divided into warring tribes can be ruled effectively. If we can't control it, let's burn it down. That is the message they've internalized.
Watch our activists gathered at the Supreme Court and reacted after the Kavanaugh vote on Saturday afternoon. Keep in mind as you watch this, this is not a clip from a zombie movie. It's Washington D.C. 2018.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROWD CHANTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: The children of affluence raging, and the rage continued on cable news and on social media. "We've got to eliminate the Electoral College," they chirped in unison, "White men are bad."
Well the message was obviously coordinated. Important media figures seem to be saying exactly the same things at exactly the same time, and indeed, they were. They were repeating talking points from the Democratic Party whose interest they faithfully serve.
For generations, conservatives called this the Liberal media. But that's not quite right. These are not Liberals. They're not people who believe in free speech or transparency or due process or challenging corporate power or any other recognizable Liberal value.
These are party people. They are hacks and joiners and drones. They read the latest pronouncement from the Central Committee like they're scripture. They repeat whatever they are told. They are robots.
Liberals used to defend the rights of the minority, and good for them. Watch now as Hillary Clinton explains how entire states should lose their political power because voters don't agree with the majority of rich kids in Brooklyn. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN: Do you think the Electoral College should be abolished?
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I said that in 2000 after what happened to the 2000 election with Al Gore.
That an anachronism that was designed for another time no longer works if we've moved toward one-person one-vote.
I think it needs to be eliminated. I'd like to see us move beyond it. Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: It isn't just the Electoral College either. In the past few days, many have been saying the Senate itself should be changed with different states having a different number of senators.
All of a sudden, everybody on the Left seems to be saying things like this including supposedly unbiased reporters. "Shut up, Wyoming, nobody cares what you think." That's the new message from the party that pretends to care about the powerless.
But then the Left has never been big on self-awareness. Here's one especially amazing example of that. This is an onion piece waiting to be written. It comes from Tom Steyer. He's a finance billionaire who is one of the Democratic Party's biggest donors.
People listen to Tom Steyer only because he sends them money. And yet, Steyer's latest crusade is against, and we want to prepare you now for a blast of hot irony, rich, entitled White men. Watch this and savor it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS STEYER, HEDGE FUND MANAGER: A group of very rich, very entitled White men wanted to tell the rest of the country we are going to have our way. And if you don't like it, that is too darn bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Yes. That's what Tom Steyer's against, people like himself, who behave like he does. Let us know when you stop snickering and then think about what Tom Steyer is saying here.
He's saying Brett Kavanaugh is not on the Supreme Court because the majority of the U.S. Senate voted for him as the Constitution prescribes. What's actually happening, says Tom Steyer, is that Kavanaugh was installed by a specific racial group in order to hurt and disempower every other racial group in America.
This is tribal warfare posing as democracy and your tribe is losing. That's what Tom Steyer is telling you. Now, as a factual matter, this is insane. It's the kind of lunacy that would have gotten you booted off a cable channel five years ago. It's also a lie and it's dangerous.
It's exactly the kind of thing that Hutu leaders in Rwanda were saying in the early 1990s. Responsible people do not talk like this. And yet, suddenly it is everywhere on the Left, and not just among the professional wackos pounding on the front door of the Supreme Court.
The line between dangerous extremist and U.S. Senator is blurring all of a sudden on the Left. Watch noted race-hater Linda Sarsour explain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDA SARSOUR, AMERICAN POLITICAL ACTIVIST: I want to introduce to you another champion, another one of our people who works for us on the inside.
Please give it up to the Senator from the greatest state in the United States of America, my state, New York, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Imagine a clan leader introducing a Republican senator at a public event this way. One of our people who works for us on the inside, that's the equivalent of what you just saw.
Sarsour's embrace of Gillibrand though got basically no media coverage. It's normal now. The press just applaud it. How far can this go? Well spend an hour watching the other channels and see what you think.
Here, for example, is a guy with a Harvard Law degree over on MSNBC explaining how Trump voters are actually Nazis. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIE MYSTAL, MANAGING EDITOR, ABOVE THE LAW REDLINE, EDITOR-AT-LARGE OF BREAKING MEDIA: Trump has delivered for these people on the things that they care about most. He has delivered racism for these people. He has delivered misogyny for these people, and now he's delivered the Supreme Court for these people.
We're going to see if this - if this reign that they now have control over all three branches of government, we're going to see if this reign lasts for 30 days, or two years, or a Thousand-Year Reich.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: All the other people in the panel nod, "Ooh, yes. That's right." A Thousand-Year Reich. Keep in mind that hundreds of thousands of American men died to stop the Thousand-Year Reich, and an awful lot of their children and grandchildren grew up in this country to vote for Donald Trump only to be called Nazis for doing it.
Not that Mr. Harvard Law School knows any of that. He probably couldn't tell you the year the Second World War ended. He doesn't care. History means nothing to revolutionaries, and that's why they keep repeating it.
Heather Mac Donald is a Manhattan Institute Fellow, author of the book, the Diversity Delusion: How Race and Gender Pandering Corrupt the University and Undermined Our Culture. Peter Kirsanow is a United States Civil Rights Commissioner. They both join us now.
Heather, first to you, since it's directly germane to your book title, into this Kavanaugh debate hasn't (ph) been inserted by force by the Left questions of race and gender, which are not - certainly race is not inherent to the story at all, it's part of a political tactic, what tactic is it that we're watching?
HEATHER MAC DONALD, CITY JOURNAL: Well Tucker, as a close observer of academia, I thought I was inured to incoherence, I thought I was inured to ignorance, I thought I was inured to snarling narcissistic blind rage. And yet, I am stunned by the direction that this Kavanaugh episode keeps taking.
We are seeing the worst of poisonous academic identity politics transformed into the real world with an extra boost from sheer political power grab. This incident had nothing to do with race. It had nothing to do with gender--
CARLSON: Yes.
MAC DONALD: --it was about one thing, due process of the law and the presumption of innocence and whether a case had been made that Judge Kavanaugh was a rapist. That case was most decidedly not made.
And yet, we see the academic inspired Democratic Left try to turn this into an issue of race. It is simply mind-boggling. It is incoherent. What we're seeing as well at play is a - is an idea that is prevalent on - on the academic circuit today, the idea of intersectionality, which is the description of a ruthlessly competitive totem pole of victimhood.
And we're talking about a White - alleged White victim here, female. But now the Whiteness card is being played broadly, yet she was a White victim, it doesn't make sense. But it turns out--
CARLSON: No. It doesn't make any sense.
MAC DONALD: --the only thing we know, he's a White male. That's all you need to know. He is the worst of the worst. He's the vilest of all creatures.
CARLSON: So Peter Kirsanow, I've been watching carefully for the past few weeks trying to figure out what the message is, and I agree with Heather, it's incoherent. But it is intimidating to a lot of people.
The second you start throwing terms like White supremacy around, people cower. What is the right response for reasonable people of all races when faced with an argument like this, which doesn't make sense but has emotional resonance and is scary, what do you say?
PETER KIRSANOW, ATTORNEY: Well I think you have to point out what the facts are. Here, it is absurd, it is ridiculous, but it is also the only card that the progressive forces have.
By engaging in identity politics, as Heather indicated, metastasizes up from K through 12 and colleges, now it's in our political discourse because we really haven't heard any meaningful policy prescriptions from progressives since who knows when but clearly since 2016.
So everything is about race, everything is about gender because they have to pit one group against the other for their electoral advantage. Consider for a moment that if Democrats don't get at least 90 percent of the Black vote they go the way of the Whig party in this country.
Despite the fact that they've gotten 90 percent plus of the Black vote, they have lost three of the last five presidential elections. So, regardless of what the facts are, regardless of what the issue is, they must make it about identity because they have no meaningful policy prescriptions.
CARLSON: No, that's exactly right. Maybe the rest of us can point that out. I wish we had (ph) more time. Thank you both. I appreciate it.
MAC DONALD: Thank you.
KIRSANOW: Thanks, Tucker.
CARLSON: Well we've laughed a lot at the creepy porn lawyer on this show. And our derision has been well deserved. But suddenly, he's a top Democratic presidential contender and he's also at the very heart of the Kavanaugh story. We'll investigate his links to basically everything that's going on on the Left right now.
It's not hard to see how (ph) creepy porn lawyer can become a presidential candidate when you see his competition in the Democratic Party to get an idea of what he's up to. There's a new book about it. Check it out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDDIE GLAUDE, CHAIR, CENTER FOR AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES: Michael Avenatti is a beast.
STEPHANIE LEIGH RUHLE, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, MSNBC LIVE: OK, that's true.
GLAUDE: And he--
RUHLE: He's a beast.
GLAUDE: --he's a beast. And he keeps popping Donald Trump and all of his folks in the mouth.
Jon Meacham says he may be the savior of the republic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He really is a master of the media cycle.
RUHLE: I owe Michael Avenatti an apology. For the last couple of weeks, I've been saying, "Enough, already, Michael, I've seen you everywhere. What do you have left to say?" I was wrong, brother. You have a lot to say. The Democrats could learn something from (ph) you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: The savior of the Republic. Who gives these people TV shows? For months, as you know, the press could not get enough of the world's creepiest porn lawyer.
Hundreds of fawning media appearances propelled him to become a leading Democratic candidate for the presidency, which is where he is right now. But in the last two weeks, and entirely by accident, the creepy porn lawyer reminded the public about why evidence and the presumption of innocence still matter in the country and may have saved Brett Kavanaugh in the process. So now, his former benefactors are mad and they're turning on him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, AMERICAN JOURNALIST, ANCHORWOMAN, POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Some of your Democratic colleagues have been saying that the Democrats, your fellow Democrats' case against Justice Kavanaugh was weakened by Michael Avenatti.
CHARLES DAVID TODD, AMERICAN TELEVISION JOURNALIST, CURRENT MODERATOR OF NBC'S MEET THE PRESS, HOST OF MTP DAILY ON MSNBC, POLITICAL DIRECTOR, NBC NEWS: Michael Avenatti is probably the best thing to happen to Brett Kavanaugh. Isn't it?
STEVE KORNACKI, AMERICAN POLITICAL JOURNALIST, WRITER, TELEVISION HOST, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT FOR NBC NEWS: Yes. Yes.
TODD: I mean all these Democrats that have been flirting with him they've got to really be embarrassed.
KORNACKI: Look--
JOHN FREDERICK DICKERSON, AMERICAN JOURNALIST, CO-HOST OF CBS THIS MORNING: A lot of Democrats are saying and are you hearing this that Avenatti took what was a sympathetic case with Ford and turned it into a circus losing them the high ground.
NANCY CORDES, CBS NEWS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
DICKERSON: Are you hearing that (ph)?
KORNACKI: --the Michael Avenatti circus comes to town.
CHARLIE SAVAGE, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Avenatti came in with the - the Swetnick allegations, the druggie gang-rape stuff that seems to have been much less taken as credible.
Avenatti did a huge favor to the Trump White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: They're concerned that he might be hurting their beloved political party. David Brown is an attorney. He's Director of the Brunswick Group. He's a former advisor to Senator Patty Murray and he joins us tonight. David, thank you a lot for coming on.
DAVID BROWN, ATTORNEY, DIRECTOR OF BRUNSWICK GROUP, FORMER ADVISOR TO SENATOR PATTY MURRAY: Thanks for having me, Tucker.
CARLSON: So, as it (ph) turn out that Stormy Daniels' former lawyer is not in the end the savior of the republic as MSNBC dubbed him?
BROWN: Oh I think it - it gives - it gives Michael Avenatti a little too much credit to say that he really was the deciding factor in this. I think we - we know that - that now Justice Kavanaugh was confirmed because of a process that the Republicans ran and - and they were single-minded and determined in ensuring his nomination no matter the - the very serious incredible allegations that were raised against him.
CARLSON: Would you and - but they weren't and I - I think you're right. And I'm not sure that he was decisive in this. They weren't the only single- minded determined parties though, I would say in this debate. The Democrats were those things too.
And would you describe the allegation of his client that she attended 10 consecutive gang-rapes, didn't report any of this to police or tell any of her friends or relatives and that Judge Kavanaugh was present at some of these drugging, the punch, oh but wait, she says later, he wasn't, is that a credible allegation, do you think?
BROWN: What - what strikes me about - about the allegation and - and I - I believe she swore under penalty of perjury - perjury, excuse me, in her declaration. So, you know, I think as a lawyer that - that says something to me. But it was striking to me that Senator Collins herself actually (ph)--
CARLSON: But - but - but hold on (ph), she contradicted it in a later interview--
BROWN: --yes, so - so my take away from that when Senator Collins said, I think it was October 2nd, Tucker, that she wanted--
CARLSON: Right.
BROWN: --that allegation to be included in the - the scope of the FBI investigation, to me, that would have been the right way forward allowing for the FBI to fairly, impartially assess the credibility of - of her allegations by building a fact higher (ph) record--
CARLSON: And - and how - how would they go about doing that since--
BROWN: --the members who've looked at (ph)--
CARLSON: --the - since she, as you said, already gave--
BROWN: --this--
CARLSON: --her declaration under oath. She named no other person present other than people who already under oath denied that she was telling the truth. There was literally nobody to interview except her, and she was making claims that were so stupid that even Democratic senators were blush.
I mean there weren't 10 gang-rapes in a row in Chevy Chase and no one heard about it. I mean that's just not true, and everyone knew it. So why wouldn't Democrats say--
BROWN: Yes.
CARLSON: --to creepy porn lawyer, "Come on now. You know, this is not helpful."
BROWN: I - I mean I think - I think you did see some Members give far greater credence to Dr. Blasey Ford's testimony. I - I mean if anything, the focus on Dr. Ford's testimony was - was very powerful in part because she did come forward and she did testify, and Members had an opportunity to ask her questions but--
CARLSON: Right.
BROWN: --you know, look the - the broader take away for me here is that unfortunately the FBI investigation was not comprehensive. In fact, Judge - Justice Kavanaugh and Dr. Blasey Ford weren't even interviewed as part of that investigation. So, I think it was a missed opportunity for us to clear up a lot of the questions--
CARLSON: Wait, but - but are you saying but I just wanted to understand--
BROWN: --and a lot of the lingering doubts (ph).
CARLSON: --OK, but I just want to (ph) understand what you're saying. Are you saying that because creepy porn lawyer's client, the one who claimed the 10 consecutive public gang-rapes that didn't happen, and you know it as well as I, the fact that she wasn't interviewed by the FBI means that he shouldn't have been confirmed. Is that - are you really saying that?
BROWN: I - I just want to make sure you're referring to - to Mr. Avenatti when you're using that term. I - I don't watch your shows since I'm in New York (ph)--
CARLSON: I'm not - I'm not fully permit (ph)--
BROWN: --and I don't know (ph).
CARLSON: --right. The - the lawyer who represented Stormy Daniels who's now a leading presidential candidate for the Democratic Party.
BROWN: Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it.
CARLSON: The savior of the republic in the words of a (ph) best-selling author.
BROWN: A leading - a leading candidate, well let's get to - let's get to that because I'm not sure he's a leading candidate.
CARLSON: Yes, wait hold (ph) - hold on, hold on, wait, wait--
BROWN: I - I was curious when I heard you say that.
CARLSON: --well I mean he's visiting though (ph). He's been invited by Democrats in Iowa, New Hampshire and other early primary states. But let me just say are you saying that because his client, the 10 gang-rape in a row client, she wasn't interviewed about her ludicrous claims that somehow Kavanaugh shouldn't have been confirmed. Is that what you're saying?
BROWN: That's not what I said. I - I wish that she had been interviewed. And I wish that the FBI could have probed her story and then offered a more full - more complete record. I - I - that's what I'm saying.
I think that we have a missed opportunity here because there are very serious questions that are still outstanding because the FBI investigation was not allowed to be as - as complete and holistic as - as I think many Members, certainly Democratic Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, you saw their statement, wish that it had been--
CARLSON: OK.
BROWN: --and I suspect several Republicans won't (ph).
CARLSON: So just if you could just quickly bottom-line it for me, just about the creepy porn lawyer, the CPL component of this, would you say you're happy to have him in your party and he should keep doing what he's doing because that's what Democrats stand for, or maybe he should go back to doing whatever it is he does?
BROWN: I mean we're a big tent party. I'm happy for anyone who's - who's stepping forward and standing up for what they believe in. But look, it's going to be a--
CARLSON: Yes (ph).
BROWN: --really crowded primary field in 2020. So--
CARLSON: Yes.
BROWN: --I am not - not foolish enough to offer any kind of forecast as to who's going to be the nominee in 2020.
CARLSON: Yes. Well I'm rooting for him. Look, I'm not even a Democrat but I'm just - I just want to tell you. I'm four-squaring (ph)--
BROWN: I'm sure he'll be very happy to hear that.
CARLSON: --David, thank you for coming on tonight.
BROWN: Thanks, Tucker. Appreciate it.
CARLSON: I know he will be. Thank you.
Well John Mayer, who some have described as a big-time womanizer, went on a rant about how men are bad in response to Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation. Was it just political or something else going on here? Are people attacking others for the things they might be criticized for? Ah! We'll explain it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Singer and guitarist John Mayer is a very talented musician. He's also got some political feelings which he's sharing with the rest of us. He's unhappy about Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation. So unhappy, in fact, that he interrupted a concert last night to go on a lengthy rant about something called toxic masculinity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN MAYER, AMERICAN SINGER-SONGWRITER, GUITARIST, RECORD PRODUCER: I don't want it to be the male contract. I'm telling you that's the contract and (ph) we have to tear the contract up.
You do not possess the universal ability to have any woman that you see.
I'm just going on record as revealing the trauma of men feeling like they've fallen short of a bullshit (ph) alpha-male contract that nobody can live up to. And until we get rid of that in men, we (ph) won't have the right that (ph) we all deserve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: I'm going on record, says John Mayer that I'm against men behaving badly. John Mayer has been accused of behaving badly. Maybe this is a preemptive strike against further accusations. We don't know.
But there is more evidence he's for (ph) women than there is for Brett Kavanaugh but that doesn't mean his rant was surprising. Harvey Weinstein, you'll remember, was a big defender of women too.
Do we sense a theme here? I think we do. Anushay Hossain is a feminist and a columnist and game enough to join us tonight. Thanks a lot for coming on.
ANUSHAY HOSSAIN, BANGLADESHI-AMERICAN OPINION COLUMNIST, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thanks for having me, Tucker.
CARLSON: So look, I don't - I don't doubt anyone's sincerity, yours or John Mayer's, so I just want to - and I just want to restate, I think John Mayer's a really talented guy. But I remember his song, Your Body is a Wonderland.
And in it, he's got this line, "One pair of candy lips and your bubblegum tongue," I could go on. But I'm just wondering is that an example of toxic masculinity right there?
HOSSAIN: No, it isn't. I mean it depends on what you think about toxic masculinity. And I actually agree with you, Tucker. I mean John Mayer, a couple years ago, I don't think I would have been agreeing with much of what he (ph) said. He used to be such a - such a dude. And he's said many offensive things.
But I think it's a very good example, his recent statements about how men can evolve and - and change. And by the way, toxic masculinity isn't about saying your body is a wonderland. It's actually about men being violent towards women. And that song was written for his--
CARLSON: Well look everyone--
HOSSAIN: --girlfriend at the time.
CARLSON: --everyone is against men being violent toward women. But I wonder--
HOSSAIN: Yes.
CARLSON: --if the standard is indifferent (ph). If Brett Kavanaugh's calendar from 1982 had, you know, basketball with squee (ph) and then your body is a wonderland, and your bubblegum tongue, I mean you would have called for his arrest, right?
HOSSAIN: Well yes, but John Mayer wasn't up for the Supreme Court, right? I mean you're talking about two different men--
CARLSON: Oh, so he wasn't in the way of Democrats assuming political power?
HOSSAIN: No, it's just a--
CARLSON: I get it. I totally get it.
HOSSAIN: --completely different. It's complete - it's not the same thing, Tucker.
CARLSON: I'm looking for a universal statement (ph) yes, totally different.
HOSSAIN: It's not the same thing at all. One man is a singer--
CARLSON: I'm - you should (ph)--
HOSSAIN: --and the other man was up for the United States Supreme Court and--
CARLSON: Yes, right and he's in the way of Democrats--
HOSSAIN: --very serious allegation--
CARLSON: --accumulating more power so (ph)--
HOSSAIN: --but a very serious allegation came up against Kavanaugh and that didn't happen with John Mayer. Has anybody ever accused John Mayer of sexual assault and testified?
CARLSON: Look, and I - I - look, and I hope not. And I'm not attack - I'm not even attacking John Mayer at all. I just don't know what the standard--
HOSSAIN: Well, OK (ph).
CARLSON: --is. Is there (ph) there's such a thing as toxic masculinity which is men being male? Is there such a thing as--
HOSSAIN: No. That is actually completely wrong.
CARLSON: --toxic--
HOSSAIN: --that's not correct at all.
CARLSON: --well there's no definite - there's not definition--
HOSSAIN: No, no, no, there is a definition.
CARLSON: --this is like some made-up dumb feminist term.
HOSSAIN: No, there isn't (ph) actually--
CARLSON: There's no real definition. Of course--
HOSSAIN: --there's actually been studies done on it.
CARLSON: But--
HOSSAIN: It's an academic term--
CARLSON: Studies?
HOSSAIN: --and it's about violence against--
CARLSON: Oh, it's an academic - now you further discredited it.
HOSSAIN: --women.
CARLSON: Uh huh? But let me ask you this.
HOSSAIN: No, I haven't actually. Look it up, Tucker.
CARLSON: Is there some (ph) such a thing--
HOSSAIN: Look it up.
CARLSON: --look it up in some in academic journal (ph)--
HOSSAIN: --we're talking about violence against women and--
CARLSON: --maybe I'll get right on that.
HOSSAIN: --we're talking about a pop star. Please do.
CARLSON: Uh huh? Look, everybody is against violence against women. Let's be clear about that.
HOSSAIN: OK. OK good.
CARLSON: I want to know if there's such a thing in the academic--
HOSSAIN: That's what toxic masculinity is about--
CARLSON: --OK. That - that's your definition. Let me ask you--
HOSSAIN: That is the definition.
CARLSON: --what is the definition of toxic femininity?
HOSSAIN: I don't think there is a definition of toxic femininity and what--
CARLSON: There are ton of women--
HOSSAIN: --will you find (ph)--
CARLSON: --oh, there isn't? Oh there's not (ph)--
HOSSAIN: OK. What is it? What is it? Please tell me.
CARLSON: --so there are a lot of women in prison for shooting. Well I - I have no idea.
HOSSAIN: That's, OK--
CARLSON: Actually, you know, I'll be honest with you. I don't think that inherent qualities are ever toxic. I don't think there's such a thing as toxic homosexuality--
HOSSAIN: Gee (ph), I don't think--
CARLSON: --or toxic masculinity or toxic femininity. I think the whole idea is insane. People act in a way that's bad--
HOSSAIN: But you're - but you are not understanding what the--
CARLSON: --that behavior is bad.
HOSSAIN: --definition is. And you're completely--
CARLSON: I understand precisely--
HOSSAIN: --confusing two - two different points.
CARLSON: --what it is.
HOSSAIN: No, you're not. Toxic masculinity is not inherent.
CARLSON: Well then you tell me why can--
HOSSAIN: And not all men are violent and bad. Breaking news, Tucker, not all men are--
CARLSON: But why--
HOSSAIN: --violent and bad. And what's so controversial about what - what--
CARLSON: --that's not - not actually news to me as of Mayer (ph).
HOSSAIN: --John Mayer said? What's so controversial about that? He's saying don't feel entitled to women. And we are talking, you know, this is coming on the heels of--
CARLSON: OK. But - but let me ask you, hold on, hold on, wait, hold on, can I ask you--
HOSSAIN: --a really intense time in this country (ph).
CARLSON: --a serious - OK, OK--
HOSSAIN: Please do.
CARLSON: --it is an intense time. But I think all of us as adults have an obligation to think (ph) as clearly as we can.
HOSSAIN: That's why you shouldn't define toxic masculinity--
CARLSON: So, it is - it has been a common place--
HOSSAIN: --incorrectly.
CARLSON: --there's no definition of it, as you know. It's a bunch of ludicrous--
HOSSAIN: There is. No, you're saying that. That's not correct--
CARLSON: --low IQ academics making up as they go along (ph)--
HOSSAIN: --Tucker.
CARLSON: --and you know but it is true.
HOSSAIN: No, it isn't.
CARLSON: But let me ask you very quickly. Why not just say abuse is bad? Toxic - masculinity is a quality that is inherent in men. You're attacking inherent--
HOSSAIN: Masculinity but not toxic masculinity--
CARLSON: --quality. You know that perfectly well which is why you'll not concede--
HOSSAIN: --no, because you don't know what you're talking about--
CARLSON: --that there's such a thing as toxic femininity.
HOSSAIN: --toxic masculinity--
CARLSON: It's attack (ph) against men.
HOSSAIN: --is not inherent.
CARLSON: Oh, I do too well.
HOSSAIN: No, you don't because you're completely mis-defining it.
CARLSON: OK.
HOSSAIN: It's incorrect.
CARLSON: Yes, OK, I need to read more academic journals. And I will.
HOSSAIN: Please do. Or just do a quick--
CARLSON: Anushay Hossain, great to see you. Thank you.
HOSSAIN: --Google search. Thanks, Tucker.
CARLSON: Hilarious.
Brett Kavanaugh can barely go outside now. Meanwhile, the Clintons are loud and proud and on tour, at a cost. Bill and Hillary are not rich enough so they'll be traveling across the United States. Will anyone notice? Well after the break (ph).
And as bad as he can be, Bill Clinton, at least, understood voters and cared what they thought. His party has changed dramatically. They don't care at all. That process, the dramatic change in the Democratic and Republican Party's detailed in some detail in the book on your screen. We'll be right back.
TEXT: TUCKER'S BOOK IS OUT NOW.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Well Brett Kavanaugh made it onto the Supreme Court. He was sworn in today. And yet, the attacks on him which were without precedent have made it likely impossible for him or his family to lead a normal public life for some time, maybe ever.
No such restrictions, you'll notice, exist for Bill Clinton though. He and his wife Hillary are going on tour. They're not rich enough. They would like to be much richer and they think you can help. They'll be visiting 13 cities in the next seven months to host a series of what they're calling "Conversations," about what else? Themselves.
You want to go and pay homage to them? Of course, you do. Tickets to the first event in Las Vegas cost a mere 70 - 72 bucks. That's the cheapest.
Mark Steyn is an author and columnist. He'll be first in line for the Conversation tour. He joins us tonight. You going to this, Mark?
MARK STEYN, AUTHOR, COLUMNIST, STEYNONLINE.COM: I'm actually rather disturbed, Tucker, that a remarkable number of stops on this tour are Canadian cities. And I don't know whether that's a great insult to my native land. If they - they feel a bit like one of these superannuated Rock groups that are still big in Japan that it's - it's like that kind of thing. And I wonder - I wonder--
CARLSON: Grand Funk Railroad, yes.
STEYN: --yes, something - something like that, still Grand Funk Railroad is still big in Taiwan and Germany. But it's - it's interesting after hearing these Democrats talk about toxic masculinity.
This is actually the toxin in the former Bill Clinton going - I mean I don't know how you get the toxin in the masculinity for - for one thing. But I'm pretty sure that what - however you do it, Bill Clinton's in on the secret, and that would actually be something quite interesting to know about. But he won't be doing anything like that. It'll be bland, insipid Clinton Foundation type speeches--
CARLSON: Yes.
STEYN: --except that they've run out of Saudi princes and Kazakh warlords willing to pony up the big bucks, so they got to take the act on the road.
CARLSON: It'll be the blandest mush ever served.
STEYN: Yes, yes. But it--
CARLSON: You spent your childhood being educated in an island nation that gave birth to this country, Britain. And so, I want to ask you about this story that emerged today.
So the former astronaut, American, Scott Kelly learned the hard way how dangerous it is to praise anybody born before 1985. Yesterday, on Twitter, he posted this quote. "One of the greatest leaders of modern times, Sir Winston Churchill said, "In victory magnanimity." I guess those days are over."
So, for the crime of praising Churchill he was inundated with criticism from users who denounced Churchill as an imperialist, racist, genocidal warmonger, whatever. He bowed to them and responded to "Educate myself further on his atrocities and racist views."
Whoa. He's been re-educated. What does this tell us, Mark?
STEYN: Well I think it tells us the moronization (ph) that comes with living in a eternal present tense, Churchill--
CARLSON: Yes.
STEYN: --it should hardly be necessary to say this. He was the indispensable man of the 20th Century. He presided over the Hinge moment of the 20th Century, which is the period between the fall of France in the spring of 1940 and the Germans' insane decision to invade the Soviet Union a late - a year later.
CARLSON: Right.
STEYN: That year when Britain and its empire stood alone determined the course of the 20th Century. And if it hadn't been Churchill, I mean I - I hate having to explain this. It's pathetic that one of the few men who's actually golly (ph) go up into orbit apparently left his brains out on Planet Zongo somewhere.
There is no need to apologize for defending Churchill, sir. You live in the world Churchill made. And if some Twitter ignoramus trying to drive you to suicide because the only point of Twitter is to drive minor celebrities to suicide, if the Twitter mob doesn't know that, get off Twitter. Go back into space. You'll meet a less moronic class of person up on Planet Zongo.
CARLSON: You live in the world Churchill created. So as someone who's clearly thought this through, really quick, for the edification of the rest of us, how do we respond when the Twitter mob goes after us for saying something that should be obvious?
STEYN: I think you actually have to shove it down their throats. This guy, the - these guys are arguing that Churchill was no different from Hitler.
No. Churchill was the guy who defeated Hitler when everybody else around him, like the other guy who would have been Prime Minister, Lord Halifax, wanted actually to make peace and accommodate with him (ph). We are living in an eternal present tense and--
CARLSON: That's right.
STEYN: --in eternal present tense means you're eternally a child. You're Taylor Swift. You're Justin Bieber. And that's why you can't comprehend Winston Churchill because he wears long pants unlike Justin Bieber.
CARLSON: I knew. I knew you'd be the best in that. Mark Steyn, great to see you. Thank you.
STEYN: Thanks a lot, Tucker.
CARLSON: Everything else in the news has disappeared for the last month. We're waking up to a brand new world. But news has still been happening. The Left is pushing an increasingly, in fact, radical agenda, amnesty for as many as 22 million people here illegally. That is their electoral strategy going forward. You need to know about it. We have the details after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Well the month-long battle over Brett Kavanaugh consumed virtually all attention in Washington, virtually, all of our attention, and it distracted a lot of us from the issue of immigration. That issue has not gone away. In fact, we know more about it now than we did a month ago.
Many Democratic candidates are still running on a platform of abolishing border enforcement, ending any kind of enforcement at the borders, and outright amnesty for the people already here illegally. That could be a bigger question than any of us knew.
A new study by Yale University, two Yale professors, one from MIT, found that there are about 22 million illegal immigrants in the United States. That is double the conventional estimate. There could be more.
Cesar Vargas is a lawyer and a former illegal immigrant and he joins us tonight. Cesar, thanks a lot for coming on. So, I think this is a - this is a meaningful study. And it's not done by a, you know, some politically minded group. I think it's probably done by Liberals. 22 million people is a lot of people. Are you still for giving them all citizenship?
CESAR VARGAS, NATIONAL IMMIGRATION REFORM ADVOCATE, FORMER ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT: Tucker, thank you so much for having me. Happy Indigenous Peoples' Day.
CARLSON: Thank you.
VARGAS: Before we get into the politics of the issue--
CARLSON: Don't pull into this show (ph) with that nonsense.
VARGAS: --let's - let's get with those three--
CARLSON: It's Columbus Day, pal, come on.
VARGAS: --let's get two, three points on that.
CARLSON: OK.
VARGAS: First, make - let's make sure that the researchers clearly said that this is not an assumption or implication that there's an outburst of undocumented immigrants here in the U.S. Second--
CARLSON: OK.
VARGAS: --it's based on a very basic principle. They said that they take in consideration the initial population plus everyone who comes in plus everyone who leaves.
This points directly to what they want to say, namely, that it's a shadowy (ph) population and obviously we're not going to count everyone, so there's definitely an undercount (ph). And three, most importantly, is simply that this was - this was a--
CARLSON: I'm sorry. I don't - look, I'd want to give you time to speak. I do that--
VARGAS: --study from 1990 (ph) to 2016. So, it could have been at any point--
CARLSON: --OK. But hold on, hold on, let's just - just stop this speech, just please answer my question--
VARGAS: --either 22 million, 9 million, 2 million, so let's understand the report first--
CARLSON: --OK, it's just OK, no it couldn't be 2 million (ph)--
VARGAS: --before we talk about the politics.
CARLSON: --stop please. I - I - it's not even politics. I read this study. It's pretty clear they're the first people to look at this systematically and there are far more than 11 million people in this country illegally.
The largest margin in the history of presidential elections in this country, 1984, was about 17 million, so there are more illegal aliens than there are voters who made the difference in the biggest blowout in American presidential history. You're following me here with the math.
VARGAS: Well the--
CARLSON: This is definitive. So you're - I just want to know really quick if there are 22 million, 24 million, 20 million, you want to give all of them citizenship and voting rights? Are you still for that? You are always (ph) for that--
VARGAS: Oh, absolutely. No question.
CARLSON: --are you still for it?
VARGAS: Look at the economy.
CARLSON: Right.
VARGAS: We're doing pretty well. 3.7 unemployment rate, 4.2 economic growth, if we want to be able to do even better, look, if we had 22 million undocumented immigrants now--
CARLSON: Then let them vote (ph)--
VARGAS: --we're doing pretty well economically. So I say, path to citizenship, let them pay taxes--
CARLSON: Well I'm sure that you've said - so even (ph)--
VARGAS: --and we will have an even better economy. Let's just talk about now where we are--
CARLSON: --so they're not paying taxes. Wait, hold on (ph), slow down, slow down--
VARGAS: --at this moment.
CARLSON: --so they're not paying - wait, hold on, you're conceding that they're not paying taxes now. I thought having talked to you many times, your argument always was they're paying into the system more than they're taking out, which is totally untrue.
VARGAS: I said more taxes. We could pay more taxes--
CARLSON: --it's like absurd dumb talking (ph)--
VARGAS: --immigrants--
CARLSON: --well how do they pay (ph) wait, hold on, wait, wait, wait. Citizens don't pay more taxes. Everybody who works pays the taxes, pays their tax rate, so you're conceding that a lot of these people in addition to breaking our immigration law, or breaking our tax law, and they're using fake IDs--
VARGAS: I said that if there is more than the original 11 million undocumented immigrants--
CARLSON: --so you're admitting that now after all these years of talking to you?
VARGAS: --let them pay taxes. The 11 million undocumented immigrants--
CARLSON: I thought they already paid taxes.
VARGAS: --already paid taxes. I said more taxes. So if there is more--
CARLSON: Wait but why would they pay more taxes?
VARGAS: --than what we originally planned--
CARLSON: Hold on--
VARGAS: --then less - let them pay more. If there is 11 million--
CARLSON: OK. I don't know if I can keep having you on this show because this--
VARGAS: --right we assume (ph)--
CARLSON: --doesn't even make any sense at all. I just want to--
VARGAS: Very simple math. If there's 11 million undocumented immigrants but there's 22--
CARLSON: --look, it's really simple. No, no, what you're saying--
VARGAS: --let - let the other 11 million pay taxes.
CARLSON: --doesn't make any - right--
VARGAS: --no? Very simple math. I'm not saying anything complicated on this show.
CARLSON: I don't even know what you're saying. Your point is that illegal aliens are great. They're better than us. They pay their full tax share. OK, you've always been - you've always said that. You said that 20 times in my show.
VARGAS: Absolutely.
CARLSON: And now you're saying well if we - if we give them the vote, they'll pay more taxes. What? That doesn't even make sense. Here's the bottom line.
I just want our viewers to understand what the agenda of lunatics like you is. And I mean that with all respect and I like you personally. But you're saying 22 million brand-new voters in our electorate, OK, I don't know, were here illegally, now they all get to vote, they're 90 percent and we're (ph) going to vote for the Democrats.
What you're saying is that one political party will have a hammerlock on national elections forever. What do you think the rest of us think about that who aren't Democrats--
VARGAS: Well I simply say--
CARLSON: --like how do you think I'm going to (ph) feel about that?
VARGAS: --I simply say that. Why don't Republicans and Democrats actually compete for the vote and let people have their say. If Democrats want to - want to pass immigration for, Republicans want to pass immigration for, then let them give--
CARLSON: No (ph). Now we're getting - now we're getting into stuff I don't even understand. OK.
VARGAS: --the power to vote and let's compete. This is what democracy is all about, right, Tucker?
CARLSON: Yes. Letting foreigners invade your country and then take over your government. That definitely sounds like democracy to me.
VARGAS: This is our country. This is your country. This is our country.
CARLSON: Cesar, thank you so much.
VARGAS: Have a good night.
CARLSON: I hope people are freaked out by this. I am. Thank you.
Today is Columbus Day. Not everyone's calling it that though. Some, like our previous guest, are calling it Indigenous Peoples' Day. What does that mean? You don't have a right to be here, neither did your ancestors. We hate you. You get the point. We'll unpack it in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Well government workers, students, and probably about a total of 10 private sector employees enjoyed the day off today. It's Columbus Day. But people are increasingly not grateful to Christopher Columbus for giving them the day off.
Noted fake Native American activist Elizabeth Warren says today should be Indigenous People Day in honor of the ancestors she doesn't have. And more and more cities across the United States are renaming the holiday that.
Most notably, Columbus, Ohio is ditching Columbus Day and celebrating Veterans Day instead.
James Robbins is the author of Erasing America: Losing Our Future by Destroying Our Past. It's a brilliant book based on a brilliant and true concept. He joins us tonight. James, thanks a lot for coming on.
So, this is part of a larger trend that you write about in some detail in your book, which I hope our viewers read. Tell us what that trend is.
JAMES ROBBINS, COMMENTARY WRITER FOR USA TODAY, SENIOR FELLOW FOR NATIONAL SECURITY AFFAIRS ON THE AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY COUNCIL, ERASING AMERICA AUTHOR: Tucker, well the trend is to assault the American narrative to make us all feel ashamed to be Americans, to look at every aspect of the American story and say, you know, the founders were bad, the Constitution is racist. And what better place to start than with Christopher Columbus, who is, really, patient zero of the European invasion of America?
CARLSON: What is - I - I couldn't agree with you more. That's clearly the thread that ties all these stories together trying to delegitimize the country we live in. But what's the point of that? Why would they want to do that?
ROBBINS: Well I think the point of it is if we feel bad about our country, if we feel bad about the past then they can rewrite any kind of future they want. I mean the progressives want to turn the United States into a socialist country.
Well, in order to do that, if you say that, you know, the founders were all evil men and an evil document and everything in the past was bad, well then they can come up with a future that fits whatever they want to make it.
CARLSON: Right. So, they're really telling the rest of us you don't have the right to defend yourself against our assault. You don't have the moral legitimacy to defend your own country.
ROBBINS: Oh, definitely. I mean it's all about shame, it's all about blame, you know, the assault on Columbus. And by the way, as a Buckeye, I'm really sad about Columbus, Ohio--
CARLSON: I know.
ROBBINS: --kind of ditching the holiday. I think they should change the name of the city if that's what they're thinking. But--
CARLSON: Yes, no, I agree with that too. Indigenous City, how's that?
ROBBINS: --or Virtueville (ph), something like that.
CARLSON: It's good (ph). So, are you seeing this not as - obviously, it's been going on in academia for quite some time. But it seems to have spread to, again, normal places like Columbus, Ohio which is a great town, actually, filled with normal people. How did it get to Columbus?
ROBBINS: Well I think it's been insinuated into the American education system for decades. I mean starting in the 1970s, we've had this creep of revisionism in American history books until it kind of becomes the accepted narrative. I mean particularly with Columbus--
CARLSON: Right.
ROBBINS: --he starts off, you know, chapter one in Howard Zinn's Revisionist History of America. So people have grown up saying--
CARLSON: Yes.
ROBBINS: --oh, Columbus, yes, he's a bad guy.
CARLSON: It's unbelievable. It was a great book and your explanation of it was crisp and super helpful. I appreciate you coming on. Thank you.
ROBBINS: Thanks, Tucker.
CARLSON: Well, quick note for you. So, last Tuesday, we released a new book. It's called Ship of Fools: How a Selfish Ruling Class Is Pushing America to the Brink of Revolution.
On the cover of the book is a caricature of Jeff Bezos, and there's more about him inside. He's one of the people the book says has hurt this country by his behavior. Now, it turns out Bezos runs Amazon.com, which happens to have a virtual monopoly on book sales in America.
It might not have been the best marketing decision, but we meant it sincerely, so we did it. So fast forward to this week and, maybe not so surprisingly, Amazon is now telling customers it cannot ship them this book for weeks.
It doesn't make a lot of sense. Our publisher is baffled. They're not telling people trying to buy Bob Woodward's book that. We don't know what's going on. We'll let you guess. But in the meantime, you can still buy the book at Barnes & Noble or at your local bookstore, and we hope you will.
Well that's about it for us tonight. You can tune in every weeknight at 8 P.M. Eastern to the show that is the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity, smugness and, especially, groupthink, which is omnipresent. We don't even notice it. But it's everywhere. And it's destroying our brains. We're against that. Hope you are too.
Have a great night. Hannity's next.
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