'The Five' on potential Hunter Biden charges

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'The Five': Hunter Biden federal probe in 'critical' phase

'The Five' panelists discuss reports federal investigators are weighing whether to charge Hunter Biden with various tax and foreign lobbying violations, false statements and more.

This is a rush transcript of "The Five" on October 6, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Judge Jeanine Pirro, Harold Ford, Jr., Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld. "The Five" -- it's 5:00 in New York City and this is "The Five."

The president's son is one step away from serious legal troubles. Federal agents investigating Hunter Biden reportedly think they have enough evidence to charge him with tax crimes and for lying about his drug use on a federal gun form. The legal fate of the first son now in the hands of a Trump-appointed U.S. attorney in Delaware.

Sources telling Fox the matter remains in a sensitive and critical phase. The Feds appeared to be closing in after a 4-year investigation, which started over Hunter Biden's foreign business dealings.

Hunter Biden's lawyers not denying the story and instead taking issue on the leak, saying this, "It is a federal felony for a federal agent to leak information about a grand jury investigation such as this one. Any agent you cite as a source in your article apparently has committed such felony. We expect the Department of Justice will diligently investigate and prosecute such bad actors." Judge, take us through it. What's going on?

JEANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS HOST: Oh, I love it. They want the Department of Justice to diligently investigate that leak. Gee, what happened to that leak of the Supreme Court decision, that Dobbs decision? I haven't heard a word about that. Okay, let's get back to what we're doing here with Hunter Biden.

They did the -- they started this investigation in 2018. It's been four years. We know already that the grand jury concluded in the middle of the summer. Now, did they vote a true bill or did they not vote a true bill? Is there an indictment or is there not an indictment?

In order to indict someone like the son of a president, you've to get the permission of the deputy attorney general. That is Lisa Monaco, I understand. And Merrick Garland, everybody, don't let anybody fool you. There is no wall there. Merrick Garland is making the call here. So, they need that decision.

Now, if they already got an indictment then all they need is for the deputy AG, the DAG, to say okay, go with it. But then we are within 60 to 90 days of an election. You're really not supposed to indict anyone where it might impact an election.

Sure, he is not the candidate, but he is the son of a candidate, so that would apply, as well. Now, they are talking about indicting him on tax crimes and making a false statement. Are you kidding? Number one, lying on that application for the pistol permit, that's a given, that is absolutely a given.

What about criminal possession of a weapon? We've got enough pictures of him possessing that weapon while he is naked in various stages of clothed - - being clothed and not clothed, so we've got a few more charges there. Tax crimes, plural, hopefully. What about Foreign Agent Registration Act? This kid was going through Europe with a vacuum cleaner sucking up money in a pay to play for the United States.

And Joe, of course, is the big guy that Tony Bobulinski has come out and said, gee, the Feds came and talked to me but they never came back. Now, let's talk about the fact that if they didn't vote that indictment yet and they have to get permission, they can bring back another grand jury or bring this grand jury back in.

But his attorney says, well, even though the federal agents say that they have enough, it's not just a federal agents who decide. Well, gee, that's what happened with Hillary Clinton, isn't it? The FBI decided, but that wasn't right either. But here we've got them saying that the evidence is being provided by the defense that should be included as well. What is this, a trial or is this a grand jury?

You indict based upon evidence, you go forward. Don't talk to me about defense evidence. And finally, what about this Tim Thibault who Senator Chuck Grassley talked about suppressing evidence that wanted -- and the whistle-blowers came out and said they ended that investigation. So, you've got all kinds of other charges. The timing is very unusual.

Is anyone going to look at the paintings and whether or not that was a problem? That is something that should be looked into. There's a lot more to this than just a tax charge and a lying on an application.

PERINO: Okay. Well, you mentioned Bobulinski. He was on Tucker's show this week. He was talking about his interactions with the FBI. Let's just look at that quickly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CALRSON, FOX NEWS HOST: Would you speak to the FBI again?

TONY BOBULINSKI, FORMER HUNTER BIDEN BUSINESS ASSOCIATE: I'd be happy to.

CARLSON: At any time?

BOBULINSKI: At any time. Not only -- not just the FBI, the U.S. attorney, I mean, these facts are extensive, well-documented, easily verified metadata, multiple sources saying the same thing.

CARLSON: Sure.

BOBULINSKI: Zero chance that this has anything to do with Russia or disinformation.

CARSLON: So, we've heard repeatedly accounts that there is or was a grand jury impaneled in Delaware.

BOBULINSKI: Yeah.

CARLSON: What do you know about that?

BOBULINSKI: I know one thing, I haven't been called in front of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: That's amazing.

PERINO: Right? I think that, Jesse, that's what I was going to ask you about, that they -- here you have somebody who has a lot of information, he was willing to talk to them but they didn't even call.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: They are trying to contain it but you can't contain what is going on with the Biden family. It is just too big and it's no coincidence that this report comes out days after Tony B. goes on Tucker Carlson and blows the whole thing wide open again.

My source tells me that Hunter Biden rejected a pretty sweet plea deal, and they were going to have him plea, no prison time, a couple million dollars in fines, and he turned it down. That was a bad idea because now I'm hearing it's about $15 million in fines and they are throwing more felonies that he has to plead to.

We're hearing about whistle-blowers that are coming out in the FBI. We're hearing about possible more whistle-blowers who know and have done business with the Biden family, possibly coming out, publicly. When the Republicans take the House, who is it going to be, Jim Jordan? One of these guys is going to have the gavel and they are going to be calling associates of the Biden family to testify, under oath on live television.

They will be subpoenaing Treasury records that show these suspicious wire transfers from China and Russia and God knows where. They are not going to be able to stop that. CNN, MSNBC, they haven't seen this evidence, but you're going to have Tony B., you're going to have more people coming out under oath, answering questions.

This is not a Hunter story. This is a Joe Biden story. The house of cards could fall if they keep the pressure on. Think about this. If you follow the evidence to where this is going, Joe Biden is a traitor because Joe Biden was going to be the front man for China's Belt and Road Initiative.

China's Belt and Road Initiative was the biggest challenge the United States supremacy we've ever had. This is their imperial commercial strategy to supplant the United States as the number one world power. They were paying the Biden family to be the face of that. the American face of the Chinese Belt and Road. And Biden was getting paid to do that.

I have no -- I don't see how you can keep this under wraps for that much longer and this might be the perfect excuse for the Democrats to say hey, Joe, we don't want you to run anymore. Here is a good excuse why you are not going to.

PERINO: One of the things that they say on the Democratic side about Trump is that on the Mar-a-Lago raid, is that no one is above the law. Well, does that work this way, too?

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: God, I wish I had like Hunter's power. Like, nobody I know could get away with all of this for so long. To your point about the fact that, you know, maybe this is good for the Democrats. If you were to report any of this stuff prior to the 2020 election you would have been banned from social media, ostracized by all of the smarty-pants in the media.

But now it's okay, right? And I think it's because they realize the cabal to bury this story worked. They got Joe elected, and now they can use this story to bury Joe. So, I don't think they're that -- there isn't an urgency or rush to stop this story because you know what, if it does the work that they want it to do, which is to get Joe off the stage, then actually it's going to work for them.

I think, however, before we discuss any more of this this, we should run it by the exact same 50 intel agents to find out if this is actually more Russian disinfo and I just think that this -- it's weird, you know. For me, I'm so jaded by the Hunter Biden stuff that I can't even tell what's a big deal anymore.

Like, is this the big deal? Is it not the big deal? I think that's another success of the media, is that if the Biden stuff had come out in one big chunk, it would have been staggering beyond any scandal. I mean, that collusion, the influence peddling, the drugs, the hookers, the guns, it's a massive story.

But it's kind of like dripped, dripped out, it was diluted by time. So now it is kind of like a daily comic strip and it's like oh, yeah, that guy. We don't even report on it as much, but I think that like, I do believe that if congress is won by the Republicans, they definitely, definitely have to do hearings.

PERINO: And I bet that they call up those intel people as well.

GUTFELD: Yes, one by one.

PERINO: Harold, let's give you the last word, have the floor.

HAROLD FORD, JR, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: So, the reporting is accurate, which you have to believe that a lot of this is, particularly Dana since you said his lawyers, Hunter's lawyers have not refuted any of this or not responded. It sounds like Hunter Biden will be subjected to the American legal process.

He knows as well as anyone, he is a graduate of one of the great law schools in this country, Yale Law School, that no one is above the law and he will have to face whatever it is he has to face. I don't have a whole lot to say other than the reporting is what it is. I've always said anytime, this investigation under him started, I believe under President Trump. And now it looks as if they -- it may conclude in an indictment.

I'd say one less thing, I don't take any glee in any one who has misfortune who or who has a fault. He has written about this episode in his life, talked about the addictions, the drugs, and the alcohol. I'm blessed to have not had those addictions and we're all blessed to not have those kinds of addictions. That is no excuse for it, but I wish him and his family the best and he will have to face these consequences.

PIRRO: I want to say one more thing. It is clearly no excuse and no defense, but let me make one thing perfectly clear. There are people in this country who have served time in federal prison when they have actually paid their taxes back, and the fact that this man was offered a plea bargain with no jail time means he's already getting the sweet deal when other people have not.

PERINO: Indeed. Alright. I think that's all we have for that segment. Huge programming note tonight if they put that back up there. I have heard -- oh, here it is. This is the news. Kanye West is going to sit down with Tucker Carlson at 8:00 p.m. tonight. They will cover a wide range of topics. Yeah, that is must-see T.V. of the moment.

Also, coming up, President Biden talking tough on a hot mic, but is the world getting the message?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PIRRO: President Biden caught on a hot mic trying to act like a tough guy and using some salty language.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No one (BLEEP) with a Biden. You're (BLEEP) right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: Biden bragging that no one messes with him. But apparently no one has told him that the whole world is. The Saudis and OPEC embarrassing the president by cutting oil production after he begged them repeatedly to produce more. And with gas prices already surging, Biden might be forced to suck up to the socialist in Venezuela for oil.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: What is your reaction to the OPEC+ decision Mr. President?

BIDEN: Disappointment. And we're looking at what alternatives we may have for us.

UNKNOWN: Is Venezuela one of those alternatives?

BIDEN: There is a lot of alternatives. We haven't made up our minds yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy perfectly summing up Biden's war on American energy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Think of what he did on the very first day, ending and American pipeline, stopping leases. He's made us dependent upon Russia, Saudi Arabia, and now Venezuela. He hates American oil field workers so much that he'll never turn to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: You know, the amazing part of all of this is that there is the ability for America, Jesse, to pump our own oil, and yet the president prefers to seek it from socialists, go on bended knee to the Saudis and OPEC. Why?

WATTERS: Because if you listen to his answer, it's always the same. We haven't made up our mind yet. It's because he is not the one making the decision. Someone else is telling Biden what his mind will tell him to make up because he doesn't -- he is a stooge, he is a puppet. We are not getting oil from Venezuela. That economy is collapsing. Their infrastructure is crumbling. That's a long-term play.

I would argue that the stairs of Air Force One left with Biden and the bike, it's just to be accurate there. Here reminds me of the guy and I know, Greg, and I know -- and I know Harold know people like this, they are overcompensating, right? They are talking tough because deep down there is really not a lot there.

I can do more push-ups than you. I graduated with honors. No, you didn't. You basically were last in your class. He feels that way because he feels like he is untouchable because he's got the CIA and the FBI and the big media behind him. But even sometimes made men get taken out, and I think that's what's starting to happen.

If you see high gas prices, stock market correction, open borders, crime wave, inflation, this guy is teetering on the brink of epic collapse and I think everybody sees the writing on the wall.

PIRRO: Okay, so, the writing on the wall as we either beg Venezuela, Greg, or that this is not an option on the table, to develop our own resources. Why is America not given the option to be independent? Why does he hate this country so much?

GUTFELD: I don't think he hates this country so much.

PIRRO: Well, then why -- why won't he make us get out of this.

GUTFELD: There's probably other reasons beyond him hating the country.

PIRRO: What is it?

GUTFELD: First, I want to talk -- I'm not a mind reader, judge. I'd be more interested in addressing the topic, which is the most important one of the day, his swearing. Now, I was disgusted by it. I was deeply offended by the swearing. It's hard for me sitting next to Dana because she has, you know, a mouth like a drunk longshoreman, so I'm pretty numb to it.

But just hearing him say that word, it triggered me because you know what it did? It made me miss Trump. Because he swore all the time! Who cares about the swearing? My impression is that Joe interprets his surroundings far differently than the managed reality around him, right? He is like playing virtual reality president, but he doesn't even need the headset. Think about it. Think about it.

I don't take any pleasure in this disaster, though, but it affects every way in ways that Trump's tweets and words never did. You know what I mean? It's like there are actual physical consequences to this energy nonpolicy, to the crime, to the inflation, to the woke policies.

And you still, like yesterday, you had the media and Democrats fretting that Trump might return to Twitter because of Elon Musk. This is what they are worried about, is that what it might do to their fragile psyche. That's what they were doing on the networks yesterday.

PIRRO: Dana, if you were president --

PERINO: Oh.

PIRRO: -- what would you do about the lack of oil in the United States?

PERINO: Well, that's pretty easy. I would just call up all the big oil people and say what you got, what do you need, let's go for it and I'll give you -- you know, I would do Operation Warp Speed on oil and gas production because we have it here, we should do it.

And I -- we -- there is a very exciting transition ahead. There is a lot of innovation for fusion or different ways to power our economy and we're going to get there eventually, but to get there, you have to have fossil fuels until that point.

So, I would try to start to -- if I were a Democratic president, I would say I hear you on climate change, I'm with you, we're going to get there. Here's what I'm doing to try to get us to a point where we have zero emissions energy, but in the meantime, we're going to need these fossil fuel companies to do what they are best at doing.

But I'll tell you one thing they're not good at doing, and that is defending themselves. And I am just shocked that they sit there and allow us to defend them. Where are they? Where all of the big CEOs? They are hiding. And it really -- I think it's bad. I think it's bad for the economy. It's bad for -- they could write a letter, like do a statement.

But there is nobody out there actually driving the message except for their association in Washington, D.C., which is fine and good, but I'm like why aren't you guys out there? Why aren't you defending your energy workers?

Don't just leave it to us. You guys should get out there and do it, too. And the last thing on the F-bomb with Biden. The thing that I felt was strange is that why are you talking about yourself in the middle of a disaster zone?

GUTFELD: That's funny.

PERINO: You're walking up to the mayor and the first thing you say is nobody Fs with me? But this has nothing to do with you. We are here to talk about disaster.

WATTERS: It's like when Kamala was on the DMZ and she was like, have you guys seen the Hubble telescope? Like, what?

GUTFELD: Yeah. They are in their own reality.

PIRRO: So, what do we do about the oil?

FORD: This is a national security issue and when you think about reducing our dependence on overseas suppliers, whether it's to make soap, pharmaceutical drugs, energy, is the key to national security around the globe. We've spent almost $100 billion in Ukraine, I think rightly so, helping the Ukrainians defend themselves against Putin for literally a single reason, energy. Putin has got his leverage because of energy.

Climate activist and Democrats who, as Dana I think rightly said, want to transition to more efficient ways for energy to be used, be it green, solar, we have to understand, you can't ride on an airplane, you can't farm, you can't produce concrete, you can't do basic manufacturing without fossil fuels.

We are kidding ourselves if we don't make the kinds of investments, and we have the capacity and ability to do so. I think President Biden, he seems rhetorically getting ready to get there, get there sooner. I listened to some at the administration on some of the rival networks this morning talk about where we are.

We need to be saying exactly what's been said on this show. Let's drill. Let's continue to invest in green energy platforms. Let's invest in ways to make solar panels because I don't want five years from now for us to be dependent on China for solar panels.

PERINO: Right.

FORD: I don't want five years from now for us to be dependent on China for batteries. And it takes energy to do this, as well. And all the above strategy is what's needed. It's not any embarrassment at all for us to say we need to do this. Let's get to it sooner rather than later.

PIRRO: In the United States.

FORD: Only in the United States.

PIRRO: Up next, as crime explodes in liberal cities, the squad has no remorse whatsoever in pushing their dangerous defund the police nonsense.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Democrats are worried that surging crime is going to cost them big time and the midterms, but don't expect any apologies from the far left. Defund the police squad member Cori Bush has no regrets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: If you could do it again, would you still double down or use that slogan, defund the police?

REP. CORI BUSH (D-MO): Absolutely.

LEMON: You would.

BUSH: Absolutely. Yeah.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Democrats might be wanting to take this issue a little more seriously and avoid poor optics like this from Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

WATTERS: Greg, I don't even want to talk about the politics of this. Give me your take on her singing voice.

GUTFELD: Well, first of all, she is awful. She is terrible. She is the worst mayor in America now that DeBlasio is gone, who is white, so just, you know, just so you know. He is gone. She is now officially the worst mayor in America.

And why is she able to survive in Chicago, which is just a crime-ridden dystopia? I've over used that word. She is incompetent. She is terrible. It's because you can't criticize her. If you criticize her, they'll say it's because she is black. If you criticize her, they'll say because she's a lesbian. If you say, hey, she looks like an escapee from a haunted house, they'll go, that's -- you're a racist and you're a homophobe. No, she's got a protection racket.

People have to understand that they're doing -- that's doing Chicago no favors. Her allies are doing her no favors by not -- by not criticizing what she does. By the way, did you ever see the Yelp review she did for a limo company. I urge everybody to look that up. This is on -- Tim Dylan's webcast or podcasts did it. And it was like, you know -- you can learn more about her from her angry Yelp review of a limo service.

WATTERS: She left a Yelp review.

GUTFELD: Yes, it's the best. It's the best.

WATTERS: I can't believe we haven't done that story.

GUTFELD: Google limo -- google limo review and Lori Lightfoot.

WATTERS: OK, do it on the commercial break, everybody. Dana Perino, you'd think that if you've made a mistake so big, like defund the police, it's actually gotten people killed, you might want to tack back a little to the center.

PERINO: Yes, I think that people are taking this don't apologize for anything a little too far. I mean, why couldn't she have said something like, I believe that police needs to be reformed, I think that budgets could be redone, and I understand that some people don't like that language, but I believe in the principle of changing police?

I mean, you can figure out a way to help a brother out or your sisters out. Like, Abigail Spanberger who was telling you from the beginning --

GUTFELD: Drink.

PERINO: -- you needed to do something. That was two years ago, right? So now, the Democrats whether they like it or not, they own it. The Monmouth poll that just came out is what should probably scare them the most. The number two issue is now crime and number five issue is abortion. And people will come out and vote because they want to be safe.

WATTERS: I give demoted Don Lemon credit, Jeanine, for asking that straight question. It was almost like he was inviting her maybe to change her position a little bit. But she did not take the bait, didn't she?

PIRRO: She didn't take the bait. She's decided that she believed what she believed. And you know, it's just like a Governor Hochul saying that New York is the safest big city in America. And it's just like Lori Lightfoot saying we're making progress. I mean, they're all saying everything is fine. Don't worry about it, children. You know, they're involved in a bigger issue. And their issue is an ideological one where they want to move up to the next level in politics. You little peons, don't worry about it.

The thing that they should be most concerned about is that U.S. murder rates rose by more than 4.3 percent in the past year. But what is absolutely amazing to me is in both LA and New York City did not report their crime statistics. Now, why would that be? Number one, the number would be far more than 4.3 percent in terms of the primary rising if New York and LA were in there. And number two, that you've got Hochul who's to talking about New York is the safest city and you've got Gavin Newsom was running for president who can't afford to have people know how dangerous his state is.

And the truth is that it's the Democrats and this whole issue of, you know, we want to -- if we don't have the substantive argument, if the facts are against us, let's just hide the facts.

WATTERS: Permission to make an analogy.

FORD: Please.

WATTERS: Cori Bush is like the person who insists everybody go to this Greek restaurant, and no one wants to go because it's gotten terrible reviews, it's a long drive, and they just don't want to go. But she insists we have to go to this restaurant. What happens? They all go to the restaurant, everybody gets sick from food poisoning. What does she do? She makes another reservation the next night at the same Greek restaurant.

FORD: Maybe she believes in second chances.

GUTFELD: Why is it Greek?

WATTERS: Pick another restaurant, Greg. Italian -- although I doubt you'd have a bad meal in an Italian restaurant.

FORD: Her views -- her views are not representative of mine, do not represent me on this issue, nor does she represent any Democrat -- any serious Democrat that I know including the president and the mayor of this city and dozens of other mayors across the country. I don't believe that we should associate this with the entire Democratic Party, much like I don't associate those who deny the outcome of the 2020 election as being representative of all Republicans.

This is nonsense. We need a serious effort around this. This is a problem, as Judge -- we've talked about this -- it's a national problem yelling out for solution locally, all the way up -- all the way up. We have to get rid of this cashless bail, we have to get rid of these soft DAs who won't prosecute violent crimes. We need more cops, more prosecutors, more jails. And we need to ensure here in this city that we put cops in the subways so every New Yorker and everybody visiting is safer.

There's a whole bunch of things to do. And I would hope that this Congresswoman would not -- her words will not stand in the way of Democrats who believe that we should fund the police, we should fund prosecutors. We should fund judges, and we should ensure that we have enough jails to house those who are committing crimes.

WATTERS: Well said. And I do like Greek food. What's that sauce, the tzatziki sauce. How do you say?

PERINO: Tzatziki.

WATTERS: Tzatziki?

PERINO: I don't know. She says it better.

PIRRO: Tzatziki.

WATTERS: Tzatziki?

FORD: Is there a reason she can say that?

WATTERS: Say it again one more time with the camera on your teeth.

PIRRO: Tzatziki

WATTERS: Up next, Dr. Fauci yacking it up on late night and warning of yet another COVID variant.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Best song ever, Jesse. America's biggest worry award is back like he never left Dr. Fauci warning of yet another new COVID variant cautioning that we should not be surprised if a new one pops up this winter. Fauci also hitting up the late-night circuit and poking fun at kids whose lives he destroyed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, THE LATE SHOW: You want to go with the booster right now? Can we?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT: If we can, let's do it.

COLBERT: Spooky season is coming up. What scares you the most?

FAUCI: 1000 kids coming to my door breathing on me.

COLBERT: What could be more compelling than getting the shot with a pair of sexy kitten ears on?

FAUCI: Don't forget to get your booster.

COLBERT: Do you think he's nervous to give Anthony Fauci a shot?

FAUCI: He probably is. I hope he isn't.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's it.

COLBERT: There's the moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Late-night comedy, Harold. That's -- that is true late-night comedy.

PERINO: Very edgy.

GUTFELD: Edgy stuff. What do you think?

FORD: He's no -- he's no exclamation mark. He's trying. Look, Dr. Fauci, I have a different opinion about the guy. I think he's tried -- he's been -- he's been wonderful for this country. He's made a share mistakes, but he's made far more successes. And look, I don't mind the guy trying to be funny. Like, everybody can't be as funny as you, man. So you got to give the guy a break.

GUTFELD: That is so true, Harold. So true. It is tragic when I think about all those people not as funny as me. You know, Judge, he jokes his -- about a fear of Halloween is all these kids breathing on him. How clueless is the guy. All the kids wear masks?

PIRRO: Well, he's making sure that they wear masks because I guess for him Halloween is all year. But go ahead. What's your question?

GUTFELD: That was my question.

PIRRO: OK, good. I'm done.

PERINO: That was a good answer.

GUTFELD: Dana, we keep saying he's back, but isn't that kind of false because he never left.

PERINO: I was thinking about this. There's obviously an audience for him, right, because he's continuing to be invited on all of these programs. If it wasn't rating for them, their ratings are not as good, I know, but they -- if it wasn't doing something for them, that they wouldn't have them on.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I always would say to him, you don't have to say yes to every interview. You don't.

GUTFELD: That's true. That's true.

PERINO: But if you can come on Gutfeld show, you should.

GUTFELD: No, I won't ask him. You know, I do remember him being on your show, Jesse. You guys hit it off famously. Did you guys go to the nearest drugstore and --

PIRRO: Wear ears?

GUTFELD: Wear ears?

WATTERS: No. I should have taken him to a drugstore though. He came on my show in the beginning of the pandemic and I was like, oh, this guy is the top doctor. Let's hear what he has to say. And then he really fell off a cliff. But we're doing something on "PRIMETIME" tonight. The Judicial Watch just slapped a lawsuit on the bottom ministration and found records that show that the federal government was pressuring all of these celebrities and entertainment companies and TV shows to weave pro-vaccine plotlines into their shows and have PSAs and do this, like what they did there.

That was the federal government calling CBS Viacom or whatever and saying, we got to get Fauci on because Pfizer needs to get paid, we got to get everybody boosted. And Steven says, sure, we'll make it a skit. It's a lot of the time it's not about ratings. It's the federal government telling them we're going to book Fauci and you're going to love it.

PERINO: Or the pharmaceutical company.

WATTERS: Right.

PERINO: Right?

GUTFELD: Well, I'd be -- you know, if he wrote me a prescription, that would be -- it's that pay-for-play?

WATTERS: Greg, there's not enough ink in his pen.

PIRRO: He wrote a prescription for the whole country. What are you talking about?

GUTFELD: That's true. All right, I guess we'll move on. Up next, more proof that woked-up academics might be killing college.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FORD: College kids are realizing woke universities are just not worth it. The number of undergrad students nationwide dropped nearly 10 percent during the pandemic. And if they do give it the college try, well, they don't have to try that hard. At a liberal arts college in Wisconsin, the most popular class is literally titled doing nothing.

Judge, you're a great college and law school grad, What do you -- what do you think about this?

PIRRO: Well, I think it's just consistent with the whole personality. I mean, they don't want to do anything anyway. But you know, I don't understand why the number of students in college are down. Well, I do because people don't want -- they don't want to work, they're not looking for a job when they do get out of college. But I thought, you know, when I started reading this, I thought, well, maybe when they heard that the loans are being paid off, they might think, you know, I'll go. It can only benefit me but, you know, they're not going. They're lazy.

FORD: Jesse, you know, we've talked about your advice when you give kids going back to school. These kids clearly want to take a class called doing nothing.

WATTERS: Well, I used to disagree with Greg, because Greg used to say that not everybody should go to college. And I used to say no, I think college is important, that everybody should go and get an education. I'm going to change my official position.

PERINO: Wow, making your stand.

WATTERS: That's how open-minded I am, and here's why. Not every man needs to go to college. You need -- first of all, you need good-paying blue- collar jobs in this country to sustain a healthy and vibrant middle class. But not all men need to go to college. Some -- we need guys to get out there and do hard work for this country in an industrial capacity. And I don't want to make those guys have to go spend billions of dollars to get to this little degree that they should have been out in the country doing.

I also want to clarify something I said yesterday. I don't often do this but when I changed my opinion, now I'm on a roll. After a lengthy discussion with my wife, I am no longer team Brady.

PERINO: I knew it. I knew it.

WATTERS: I'm not necessarily on Team Gisele because I do know that Tom is going to be a colleague one day, but I'm just saying I talked about it, I understand what Gisele is feeling.

PIRRO: Should we tell him?

GUTFELD: No. During a break.

PIRRO: OK.

FORD: We had a segment.

PIRRO: That's a great show last night. We went through this.

WATTERS: Yes. Did you change your mind too?

GUTFELD: Well, let's just say that somebody introduced some interesting facts that I was not aware of.

PIRRO: That I wasn't aware of.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: That sounds juicy.

PIRRO: And I'm pro-Gisele.

FORD: So, Dana, you think kids should go to school or go to college?

PERINO: I want to know how much the professor is getting paid, who's teaching the how to do nothing course.

FORD: Yes.

PERINO: And that should be -- that kind of transparency for a public -- if it's a publicly funded university, I think that should be available to us. I think the class that they should teach is for example, like, how to finance and budget for the first 10 years after college. Like, that would be useful, some practical advice. That would be good. But doing nothing, you can learn that anytime on your own.

PIRRO: Well --

FORD: Hold on. But can you -- can we -- Greg wants to --

PIRRO: Go ahead, Greg.

FORD: I think the course of doing nothing is actually majoring in gender studies. That's all. No, I think there's two things. No, there are two things, two things. The reason why -- I think that the cost of college is one of the main reasons why people aren't going. And this is why -- and this is why when you talk about canceling loan debt, you should definitely do it and punish the banks and punish the schools because they never brought it up.

Whenever these kids were going to get a loan, they never told them about the interest rates or that -- they made -- they made it so easy. This I mean, we always talk about the evils of predatory lending. Predatory lending pretty much are the college loans. So, make the banks and make -- and make the schools pay. Don't make the taxpayers.

And last, college doesn't look like it's fun anymore.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: I mean, have you seen a lot of -- how miserable and how miserable looking a lot of the students are? They're deliberately like uglyfying themselves. You see them on Tik Tok. They're out of shape. They're asexual. They like they don't want -- they're like rejecting -- they're rejecting the truth in beauty. They all look like rejects from a loony bin. I'd steer clear at college too.

FORD: Congress, make the college presidents come before you and explain why this stuff keeps going up. This should be a first start.

WATTERS: Yes.

FORD: "ONE MORE THING" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Before we get to "ONE MORE THING," a huge programming note. Tucker Carlson is sitting down with Kanye West tonight. We just got a preview of the must-see interview. This is the first time we've seen it. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KANYE WEST, RAPPER: My so-called friends, slash handlers around me, told me like if I said that I like Trump, that my career will be over, that my life would be over. They say stuff like people get killed for wearing a hat like that. They threatened my life. They come out like -- they basically said that I will be killed for wearing the hat. I had someone call me last night and said anybody wearing white lives matter shirt is going to be greenlit and that means that they're going to beat him up if they wear it. And I'm like, you know, OK, greenlight me then.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: Wow.

PERINO: And you can see more of Tucker's exclusive interview with Kanye at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. We're all going to watch it here. And now, let's get to "ONE MORE THING." Greg?

GUTFELD: Well, after you watch Kanye, stick around for my show. I have Morgan Ortagus. Take that, Tucker. And I got Robert Davi, Kat Timpf, and Tyrus. Davi is, you know, directed the Hunter Biden movie.

WATTERS: Will he be wearing a tuxedo?

GUTFELD: Yes, he will. That's required at all times. I have a sad bit of news. Our dear friend and iconic radio host -- there's me. God, do I look different -- with Bernie McGuirk who passed away at 64 after a battle with prostate cancer. I think everybody here knows -- had known Bernie in one way or another. I knew him from doing this reoccurring segment in O'Reilly -- at an the O'Reilly Factor years ago.

And I was always intimidated by him with this kind of his Bronx accent. And he's a --he's he was a teddy bear, extremely funny. I know everybody here must have worked with him.

PERINO: That was Gutfeld and McGuirk.

GUTFELD: Gutfeld -- yes, it was a very original title.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly. But he was -- yes, I think they're going to do some kind of -- I think a -- where's my eyeballs? They're going to do something on WABC airing a tribute on Tuesday.

PIRRO: Tuesday.

GUTFELD: Yes. And he survived by his lovely wife, Carol, and his two children, Melanie and Brendon. There you go.

PERINO: I'm sorry to hear that. Jesse.

WATTERS: Yes, he was a great talent and a great guy. And we're definitely going to miss him. Kanye said friends slash handlers. That's interesting. Like, who is your friend and who is your handler? It's hard to define that sometimes. It just got me thinking.

FORD: I love when we get philosophical like this.

WATTERS: I'm going to make some phone calls after the show.

GUTFELD: I had nothing but handlers. I don't have any friends.

PIRRO: That's a shock.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: Here's the shock. They had reinvented the wheel, not literally. This is -- it's called a headdress -- headis. This is -- this is ping pong with your head.

PIRRO: I love this.

WATTERS: Yes. We're going to be playing this over the summer --

PIRRO: Oh, my God.

WATTERS: -- at our FIVE barbecue. And I mean, I feel like this is going to take off, kind of like cornhole and --

PIRRO: Wow. They're good.

GUTFELD: You know who the star athlete? It's James Van Der Beek

WATTERS: Because his forehead is so large.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: It does help with the backspin. Tonight, we have Rand Paul, Tulsi Gabbard, and Ainsley Earnhardt.

GUTFELD: Earhardt.

PIRRO: Earhardt.

WATTERS: That's what I said.

PERINO: Oh, my God. We're all going to watch that.

GUTFELD: That's no Kanye.

PERINO: Hey, a police lieutenant in North Carolina and self-proclaimed friend to animals, Officer Morton, spotted an injured puppy on his way home from work. The puppy had been hit by a car and was lying in the road. And so, he brought her to the vet and now she's back in his care. It turned out she had a broken leg. But with some love and care from officer Morton and his wife, she's expected to make a full recovery. So, thank you, sir. All right, Judge.

PIRRO: Thank you so much, Officer. OK, so talk about stopping traffic. This French fry-loving camel will tell you fast food is a foolproof way to get past those hump day blues. This camel was rescued from Colorado and now lives in Las Vegas sanctuary where his handling made sure to fill his appetite for In And Out French fries, even if it means going to the drive- thru. He's a rescue camel.

WATTERS: A rescue camel.

PERINO: Oh, all right. Harold?

FORD: Bernie McGuirk was a friend of mine too. I got to know him when he was on Imus' show. Bless him and his family. A U.S. Army Captain serving in Iraq surprise his wife and his firstborn. She didn't think he'd be there. Harold Rodman (PH) was hiding in a corner of a hospital room when his shocked pregnant wife walked in. Harold was not supposed to come home for at least another month. Their son Harold Rodman II was born on September 18 at Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oakland, Illinois. What a first name that kid and that father had. Congratulations.

PIRRO: That's so sweet.

PERINO: That's so sweet.

PIRRO: I love that.

PERINO: I mean, also like if she got a shock, maybe like make the labor go faster. Maybe, I don't know. I love that. That's a great "ONE MORE THING."

FORD: Anybody named Harold -- anybody named Harold, I like.

PERINO: All right, that's it for us. "SPECIAL REPORT" is up next. Hey, Bret!

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