'The Five' on the Supply chain crisis

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Jesse Watters: Life is not easier under a Biden presidency

Biden chief of staff downplays supply chain crisis; 'The Five' reacts

This is a rush transcript of "The Five" on October 14, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Katie Pavlich, Geraldo Rivera, Jesse Watters, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5:00 in New York City and this is THE FIVE.

The White House stirring up outrage over the supply chain crisis as some CEO's say President Biden waited way too long to fix the nation's broken system and the Christmas is coming very soon. The president's chief of staff, Ron Klain, again sparking backlash after promoting a tweet playing down the inflation and supply chain concerns millions of Americans have referring to them as high class problems.

Here's the quote. "Most of the economic problems we're facing are high class problems. We wouldn't have had them if the unemployment rate was still 10 percent. We would have instead have had a much worse problem." Okay, fine. But the White House defending the tweet saying this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Why would Ron Klain tweet that and would you agree that's a little bit tone deaf?

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Do you think two tweets means more? I'm just curious. We're at this point because the unemployment rate has come down and been cut in half because -- because people are buying more goods, because people are traveling, and because demand is up and because the economy is turning back on.

Are we addressing the chief of staff's twitter habits?

HEINRICH: Yes.

PSAKI: It is not a top priority, I would tell you at this point in time. The chief of staff is out there speaking on his own accord to members of Congress, to the media, frequently, as any chief of staff does. And I think it's important also for anyone here to be able to tout points that they find interesting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: All this is Americans brace for a spike in their gas bills this winter. Take a look at this chart Axios put together forecasting what increases in fuel prices for average households are going to look like. The cost of propane and heating oil are shooting up like a rocket and that is going to take hold very soon.

I have so many thoughts so many thoughts -- so many thoughts. Okay, you remember, Jesse, retweet doesn't equal endorsement.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes.

PERINO: However, Ron Klain is not tweeting in his personal capacity. He's always tweeting and retweeting like a teenage girl, retweeting and retweeting all these things. And he didn't just retweet it. He said this in all caps and with two arrows down saying this is what they think. I think this is like their deplorables moment.

WATERS: No.

PERINO: I don't think it's going to end.

WATTERS: Like a teenage girl, Dana, really?

PERINO: Sorry.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: Really?

PERINO: I'm in a mood today.

WATTERS: We're better than that. We're better than that. I just want to apologize to the audience.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS HOST: The teenage girls?

WATTERS: On behalf of Dana --

PERINO: Actually, teenage girls aren't even on twitter so, that wasn't a very good ananlogy.

WATTERS: That is true.

GUTFELD: You have to apologize on TikTok.

WATTERS: Yes. So Klain's not a great chief of staff. That's clear. And Psaki bombed today. All she had to say was we're on it.

PERINO: Yes.

WATTERS: We're going to do whatever we can to release pressure on these prices. But she says that inflation is a sign of progress. That is a really bad answer to people that are getting hammered. They've been all over the map on trying to answer questions. First they said there is no inflation. Then they said it's transitory. And now they're saying, oh, it's a sign of progress.

PERINO: So you'd be glad.

WATTERS: This is not -- it's just not going to cut it and it doesn't affect wealthy people barely at all. You can't fly. You can't buy. You can't hire. Life has not been made easier by Joe Biden's presidency and this is where we are now.

I watched the whole press briefing because I wanted to see how she'd answer and the media is on the side of the Democrats but they're not doing the Democrats any favors when half of their questions are about Trump. Half of their questions are about the January 6 subpoena battle.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: You go outside and talk to people on the streets and no one knows what that is. No one cares. Half the people don't know what the word subpoena is. So, if they think that the country cares about that, they're not informed about what the country cares about.

Yes, sometimes Fox asks about the border, supply chains, inflation, crime, that's it. But they're not being well served by the mainstream media who makes everything to be about Trump. If you -- even he gets a win, let's say he gets a win, a smaller win on some of these spending deals. You still are not going to feel the impact of that for years.

Do you know how long it takes to build a plug-in for an electric car or how long it takes to get a new government program off the ground? All you're going to see immediately are tax hikes. So he's coming into a winner. You could see more COVID in the northern United States. You're going to obviously see high home heating bills. More fuel prices through the roof. It's going to be tough, Dana.

PERINO: Heating oil is going to be up 53 percent.

WATTERS: It's a lot.

PERINO: That's from the government. That's what they said. The other thing is --

GUTFELD: That's a sign of prosperity.

PERINO: Oh, yes. Don't you realize?

GUTFELD: Yes, and it's great.

PERINO: Exactly.

GUTFELD: If you keep the temperature down that's really good for your metabolism.

PERINO: Oh. So you can lose weight, too?

WATTERS: Thank you. Jen.

GUTFELD: Yes. What's a low class problem like this is a high-class problem what is a low-class problem? Like, when -- this is a high-class problem. Is a low-class problem Hunter Biden, like you know, cocaine and hookers? I'm really confused. I realize that a high-class problem is a problem that only the high classes can weather.

WATTERS: Right.

GUTFELD: Right. So, you know, this is exactly the same tactic they dealt with crime and immigration. It doesn't affect us, therefore, it doesn't exist. There will be no toy shortages for Pelosi's grandkids or Jeff Zucker's offspring or any jerk in legacy media. They're fine. That's why they don't care about this crap.

I also love how Joe Biden is asking the oil industry for help.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: This is the industry he hurt just as he got into office. He could just reverse all the actions he took against them rather than asking for help that brought us to this place. He's like a guy that asked to sleep at your house after he burns it down. I mean, it's a legitimate question given his faculties. Maybe he doesn't remember that he was the guy that killed the pipeline.

RIVERA: -- get a little old age chit chat in here.

GUTFELD: Yes. But I mean, he might have forgotten that he killed the pipeline or shut down fracking on federal lands or stopped new leasing. He might have forgotten that he demonized -- I'm trying to be helpful here that maybe it's not his fault. But now he's saying to the people he screwed, hey, I could use a hand here.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: Could you help me put out this fire I started, going back to yesterday. You guys got to pick up the slack.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: Because I screwed up. You guys now have to pick up the slack.

PERINO: Here's a CEO who responded to that today, to the suggestion that the private sector needs to step up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISAAC LARIAN, MGA ENTERTAINMENT CEO: Well, with all due respect to President Biden, what he just ordered is too little too late. It's only 72 days left to Christmas. And whether the ports are open 24 hours a day or 48 hours a day, you cannot get labor. If you cannot get labor you cannot get trucks. You cannot get those merchandise out. And even if you get them out, it's going to be too late for Christmas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Geraldo, the private sector was saying we want to sell product. We want to move product. We would do it if we could. The problem is there are these bottlenecks and not enough truck drivers.

RIVERA: Well, I guess that is a problem of course and then you go back to why we need more young truck drivers out there working. But the problem with what Klain retweeted is that it has a Marie Antoinette vibe to it. It's a let them eat cake kind of vibe. And it's those lower classes, they've got their issues, and we upper, and that's always why I hated the Ivy League, Harvard oriented Democratic Party, the elite of the party.

But the reason it's all happening is COVID is still the atmospheric. It's bumming everybody out. It's separating everybody, basketball players and, you know, the black people and the cops and this and that. So you have COVID and then you have the residual lingering wound from Afghanistan. We never got over it. That's what pierced the --

PERINO: Yes.

RIVERA: -- the shield of Joe Biden. Once he was shown to be vulnerable there, I remember sitting here and surprising myself by my criticism of President Biden's chaotic evacuation. And as I was speaking I said, wow, I'm really nailing him and I like him and if I'm doing that then --

PERINO: Yes.

RIVERA: -- you know, it's a -- there's a trickle-down effect and I really think its bad, but there's a lot of other things that are going on.

GUTFELD: Are worse.

PERINO: One of the things that happened today, Katie, so there's these guys at the -- it's called Liberal Patriot. They are moderate conservatives and they have a free sub stacks (oh). You could check it out. But just this morning before all of this Ron Klain tweet thing happened, they had a piece that said the Democratic Party has a huge problem. They are not doing anything to win back the working class, and then a tweet like this.

It's why I would imagine that even though she had to defend it today at the press briefing room, if she could take twitter away from the White House officials I think she probably would.

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: As Dana always says, you don't have to tweet everything and twitter gets you in trouble. So it's better not to say more -- it's better to say less than more.

PERINO: Don't tweet.

PAVLICH: But, look, this administration since the beginning has a pattern. They take a policy position that involves attacking an industry. So they attack oil and gas. They attack private businesses with regulations. They throw in a vaccine mandate to distract from Afghanistan without actually issuing a rule.

And then they say -- then they pump the economy full of all this money so that employers have to compete with the federal government so there aren't enough workers to get goods to service. And then when things don't work out and there's a crisis as a result of all these policy positions, instead of changing the policy or pivoting, they attack the industry and say you have to bail us out, you have to fix this.

Now, it's one thing for Christmas presents not to get delivered on time which can we call Joe Biden Scrooge or the Grinch yet, but it's another thing when basic goods can't get delivered on time. And this administration tends to bury its head and say there's nothing happening, there's no crisis here. This was inevitable.

But they better get ready because there will be civil unrest if they don't prepare for things to get delivered like milk and food --

PERINO: Diapers.

PAVLICH: -- the grocery stores, diapers --

GUTFELD: Fruitcake.

PAVLICH: -- basic things like --

GUTFELD: What about -- what about fruitcake?

PERINO: What are you going to do without the diapers?

WATTERS: Black Friday. People are going to be fighting over --

GUTFELD: That's the (inaudible).

WATTERS: -- less amount of television. That's going to get ugly.

RIVERA: They fight every year.

PAVLICH: It's going to be worse than that if they don't get it together.

WATTERS: It's going to be worse.

PERINO: All right. Coming up, the media souring on President Biden. Why one prominent liberal says the honeymoon is over.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RIVERA: The honeymoon phase clearly over ladies and gentlemen. The White House says we have been discussing today, the president once again ignoring reporters the third time in a week in the midst of multiple bruising crises. His poll numbers as you know keep going south, headline after headlines, showing how bad things are for the commander-in-chief, at least the image.

Now, President Biden facing a new wave of criticism from the one place you would not expect, his friends in the liberal mainstream media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right now, you know, the honeymoon's over. We're so glad to see you Joe Biden. That's kind of how this year started. The problem is that he put himself in a position where he made big bold claims about the rest of the agenda, and then he steps on a rake and then he slips on a banana peel and he falls down the stairs with some marbles. And now people are looking at him in a negative light.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERA: And you know, Katie, that's Van Jones. That's not Tucker Carlson. And if Van Jones is saying the honeymoon is over it must be true.

GUTFELD: They look exactly the same.

PAVLICH: Yes. Well, he said that Joe Biden fell down the stairs. He literally fell up the stairs. So maybe that was an indication of how things were going to go, but in terms of his agenda he's looking at being a lame duck president very early on. He's having a very hard time getting his Build Back Better agenda passed.

Bernie Sanders came out today saying they're not budging. Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin is saying we're not budging either. So for someone who promised to unite the country, you can't even unite Democrats around his agenda. But the real question for people like Van Jones is what did you expect?

I mean, Joe Biden is a guy who really didn't do much when he was in the Senate in terms of getting really big pieces of legislation passed. He did a few things here and there that then the left turned on him for like the 1994 Crime Bill. And people warned about this and they said that he was a guy who could bring everyone together because he had 40 years of Washington experience, but he's proving that he actually is a bureaucrat of the system and he really can't get things done that he promised on the campaign trail.

RIVERA: In that regard, Dana, he needed with -- it's not like he was FDR with the great two-thirds of the Senate and two-thirds of the House of Representatives. He has the narrowest margin maybe in history. He needed popularity to get anything done. He got through those first emergency measures, but everything else is now bogging down. Isn't it a fact that he basically is a lame duck in a sense?

PERINO: Well, from the beginning what they should have been doing is setting expectations for people saying, especially the progressives, like I know that you would like to do all of these things. It is not going to be possible. So let's do what is feasible. Let's try to get this done in advance so we could try to grow our majority.

That would have been the smart thing. Instead, they're talking about $3.5 trillion and even the giveaways people aren't even into that. And then the other two things that are happening is that they're not -- we're not arguing about universal child care or free community college. People are focused on the fact they can't get out of the grocery store for less than $100.

And they're being told that their home heating bills are going to go up 53 percent over last year. And that their kids aren't going to get the Christmas presents that they want this year. The other thing is they don't -- he doesn't take questions. Reporters of all stripes, they have two sacred cows -- access and process. They give them neither.

And so at this point, what are we left arguing over? Tweets. And the deeper the hole gets, the harder it is for him to get out of it.

RIVERA: Don't you think though a lot of it is just image, Greg. My point is, here is the guy he's fumbling around. The stock market went up over 500 points today. A couple of big days like that and this will be last week's story.

GUTFELD: I'm not so sure because, you know, it's like entropy. All the things starts falling apart, it's hard to get that stuff back. And this honeymoon was over faster than Ilhan Omar and her brother. All right.

RIVERA: That is the snottiest thing ever.

PAVLICH: That's pretty fast.

GUTFELD: Yes it is. But it's -- but this -- this -- it might just be on pause because the moment that they can re-christen Joe as the comeback kid on geritol they will. But I don't know if it really matters because he's -- it doesn't matter to him because he served his purpose, right? He won. It's a good -- this problem is a good problem for the Democrats. They're -- they've got to figure out now what do they do.

And he's like what else do I have to do for you. I won. You guys run the country I'm going to go swim naked in the pool. So, I don't know.

RIVERA: What a visual.

GUTFELD: Yes. Well, people have seen it.

WATTERS: Secret Service agents.

RIVERA: I still believe that Afghanistan poisoned everything.

WATTERS: I do, too.

RIVERA: And it -- once the air of invulnerability was pierced, once the veil was pierced, now everyone's going to be -- it's going to be death by a thousand blows rather than cuts.

WATTERS: And to Dana's point, remember Barack Obama came out with the one big thing. It was Obamacare. And that was able to unite all of the Democrats around one single thing. Joe Biden took 16 different things from these liberal wish lists and just shoved it all into one spending bill that costs trillions of dollars so no one even knows what we're fighting for.

GUTFELD: You were supposed to unify us over unity. Do you remember that?

WATTERS: Right. And then all -- and also the real reason, Geraldo, and I know you agree with this, is because Democrats know that Joe Biden doesn't have the political talent to get himself out of this mess. He's not Clinton. He's not --

RIVERA: In that regard --

WATTERS: -- Obama. He's not Trump, Geraldo. Do you remember how down Donald Trump was during his presidency? You see him in February.

RIVERA: How down in terms of his personality?

WATTERS: Polling. Look at February 2020. He'd beaten impeachment, 50 percent approval rating in Gallup.

RIVERA: For 10 minutes.

WATTERS: He wiped ISIS off the map. And he was cruising --

RIVERA: Isn't this the problem? I'll ask a damn question.

WATTERS: All right. You already asked one. How many do you want?

RIVERA: Well, this is -- I show you the, you know, I --

WATTERS: Go ahead.

RIVERA: Anyway, the progressives --

WATTERS: Show me something.

RIVERA: The progressives have now taken over in a coup the Democratic Party. Isn't Biden's real problem aside from, you know, this -- the tactical stuff that AOC and -- they've become the moral center of the party --

WATTERS: Geraldo, there was no coup. The left is the Democrat Party. We're only talking about a handful of so-called moderates who still want trillions in spending.

RIVERA: But Biden forgot who he was. Don't you think that he had forgotten who he was?

WATTERS: Biden lied about who he was.

PERINO: I don't know. I don't think so.

WATTERS: He was never a moderate. He was there as a Trojan horse. And now the horse has come up lame.

PAVLICH: Geraldo, you know, this is true because if you look at the headlines it says moderates in the Senate holding up Biden's agenda.

RIVERA: Yes.

WATTERS: Right.

PAVLICH: Which proves that Joe Biden is actually the radical left.

PERINO: That's right.

WATTERS: Yes. He's with Bernie on this, Geraldo.

RIVERA: Well, you got Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin. That's the moderates in the Senate.

PAVLICH: Well, no Joe Biden.

GUTFELD: That's -- you got two people.

RIVERA: But not Joe Biden. Democrats for good reason sweating the governor's race in Virginia. It's a big one and it could tell us a lot about the balance of power in Washington, D.C. next year, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Story of my life. Democrats growing more anxious by the day over the tight governor's race in Virginia, which is shaping up to be a major referendum on the left's education policies. Republican Glenn Youngkin, huh? Says schools will be the deciding factor for voters and his opponent, Terry McAuliffe, is trying to play cleanup over past comments about how he'd handle the state's education system.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Who do you think should be in control of education if not Virginia parents?

TERRY MCAULIFFE, DEMIOCRATIC GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE IN VIRGINAI: Have you been vaccinated yet. That's the question I want to know? You should have a mask on.

UNKNOWN: Who do you think should be in control of education if not Virginia parents?

MCAULIFFE: Get a mask on and get vaccinated. You're dangerous here. I'll build education. That's why Fox News has me leading. Glenn Youngkin will destroy Virginia's education system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: He's a winner. The race is also shaping up to be a major bellwether on the Democrats prospects in the 2022 midterms. Katie you actually live in this state.

PAVLICH: I do.

GUTFELD: Yes. So, from that statement I would like to pose a question.

PAVLICH: Okay.

GUTFELD: What are your thoughts?

PAVLICH: Do you like my take, Greg --

GUTFELD: Yes, I would like -- I would like a hot take.

PAVLICH: -- on this -- on this race that you don't care about at all.

RIVERA: Does it even make your bellwether?

PAVLICH: It may be a bellwether. We'll have to see. Virginia has been a blue state for a long time. It shifted. Northern Virginia has completely dominated the state just like a lot of other previously red states. The metropolises and the rural areas are very different in terms of how they vote.

But this race is interesting because of the issue of education. And when Terry McAuliffe talks about wanting to build up education in Virginia, he's talking about dumping more taxpayer money, raising taxes, and giving more money to the unions.

GUTFELD: Right.

PAVLICH: Republicans like Glenn Youngkin when they talk about education, talk about school choice, allowing parents to use more of their own money to send their kids to maybe a different school. Giving parents the ability to know what's in their library. And if there's pornographic books in the library for people who are under the age of 18, especially young children, Glenn Youngkin believes that you should be able to go in and say I don't want this book in my kid's library.

Terry McAuliffe made a big mistake during the last debate by saying no, parents don't have the right to go into their schools or have really any control over their kids' education. And the pandemic of course as we've talked about a number of times has really shined a light on what kids are learning, where people's money is going, and whether people really want to keep their kids trapped in these school.

So, it's going to be a tough call but some people are saying -- some people are saying Virginia actually may sweep red all together not just with the governor's race.

GUTFELD: Well, right now, Dana, the race is tighter than Brian Kilmeade's botoxed forehead.

PERINO: I don't think he has a botoxed forehead.

GUTFELD: Well, it's --

PERINO: But it is tighter than a tick.

GUTFELD: Yes, there you go. I like that, tighter --

PERINO: I wrote that right there, tighter than a tick.

GUTFELD: Tighter than a tick.

WATTERS: You needed to write that down?

PERINO: I don't know. I was just thinking of a good line.

GUTFELD: What's your -- what's your prediction?

PERINO: Okay. So, I don't know. It is that close and yes, Fox News has McAuliffe up by three in the poll, but that is, basically, that means it's tied.

GUTFELD: Yes. Plus or minus.

WATTERS: Oh, it's a Fox poll.

PERINO: Yes. And so --

RIVERA: It must be true.

PERINO: I think a couple of things. The Democrats are trying to throw the kitchen sink --

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: -- right. They want to bring up Trump, January 6, abortion, all these other issues. I do think that intensity especially when it comes to parents matters. Also, the Democrats on the far left, they're not excited. McAuliffe himself said that one of the problems is that Biden is not popular there. And black women who are really very good at getting out the vote, they're not enthusiastic either. So, Democrats have a lot of problems.

However, I was told today by two different people who called me separately saying they are concerned because they've realized now that Democrats are waking up to the fact that they could really lose in Virginia. And that's why Obama and everybody is going to try to head to -- let's just say South Carolina to Virginia in order to try to pull out a win.

GUTFELD: Joe said no. What are your thoughts, Geraldo?

RIVERA: Thank you for that probing comment. I think McAuliffe is a street fighter. Don't ever sell him short. I think that if he does lose, it'll be because of critical race theory and all of the Virginia parents getting, you know, tussles with cops over what's being taught in the classroom and then exaggerated.

But I think again, it seems to me, Katie knows much better than I do, it seems to me that Youngkin is -- he's like a kind of a squishy guy.

PAVLICH: What do you mean he's a squishy guy? He's not a -- he's not a --

PERINO: He's not a politician.

RIVERA: You need -- you need --

PAVLICH: He's an outsider.

RIVERA: Compared to McAuliffe who's like a swagger and charismatic, big guy --

PAVLICH: I though you said he's a street fighter?

RIVERA: He's -- yes, he's like a munchkin.

PAVLICH: He's he seems like a good business guy who has the interest of --

WATTERS: A munchkin.

RIVERA: And what do you tell -- I'm sure he's a wonderful, hard -- good- hearted person, but McAuliffe could like eat him for lunch it seems.

PAVLICH: He probably would --

PERINO: He lost in the debates.

WATTERS: Wow.

GUTFELD: What do you think, Jesse?

WATTERS: Well, I think Dana actually predicted a McAuliffe loss so that's how I was going to --

PERINO: I did. I said --

RIVERA: A McAuliffe loss?

PERINO: Yes. I said that Youngkin will win by a hair.

WATTERS: Yes. I like that.

RIVERA: I take the other one.

WATTERS: I also um don't live in Virginia, so the only thing the other people -- the rest of the country see this as this is a woke thermometer.

RIVERA: I agree. That's what it is.

WATTERS: This is how woke can the Democrats get without catching a fever getting sick and die.

GUTFELD: Nicely done.

WATTERS: If they -- if he loses, then Terry McAuliffe went way woke, and now all the rest of the national Democrats are going to say we need to pump the brakes on the CRT stuff. We need to recalibrate what we're saying about schools because this thing is deadly and that's what i think the national implication is.

GUTFELD: You're smoking too much woke.

WATTERS: Right.

GUTFELD: Exactly. All right, coming up, NBA superstar Kyrie --

WATTERS: Kyrie.

GUTFELD: Irving speaking out after getting --

RIVERA: You don't know Kyrie Irving?

GUTFELD: I don't watch sports. After getting sidelined over his vaccine stance.

WATTERS: Not just basketball.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAVLICH: Airline pilots to NBA Superstar's vaccine mandates are forcing Americans out of their jobs. The Brooklyn Nets banning star player Kyrie Irving from all team activities including playing any home games in New York City until he's vaccinated. Kyrie couldn't wind -- could wind up losing millions over the season depending on how many games he's forced to sit down on the sidelines, but he is not backing down. Kyrie says he's standing his ground against his own team.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KYRIE IRVING, NBA PLAYER: What would you do, you know, if you felt uncomfortable going into the season when you are promised that you have exemptions or that you don't have to be forced to get the vaccine? I'm staying ground on what I believe in. It's just as simple as that. It's not about being anti-vax or about being, you know, on one side of the other. It is just being about being true to what feels good for me.

I chose to be unvaccinated and that was my choice. And I would ask you all just to respect that choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAVLICH: So, Greg, it's not -- he's not just making the argument that this is a personal health choice, he's also making the argument that the goalposts were moved on him.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PAVLICH: So, the season started and then they changed the rules much like Biden said there wouldn't be this federal mandate and now there is one.

GUTFELD: Yes. He made his decision with the best intentions. He did not see this coming. He ran into a fearful NBA. Every step now is dictated by lawyers who are operating with the ominous threat of liability for everything. Add to that how the media has turned this into a left-right thing and he becomes suddenly like a sacrificial lamb.

You got to go back to how disconnected our actions are from risk it. Doesn't matter that an unvaxxed child has the same risk as a vaxxed middle- aged person. That's a fact. That was from the New York Times. It doesn't matter that a healthy lean athlete has a different risk than an elderly obese person. We know the risk factors. The key risk factors are age, the older you are, and weight, if you're obese.

But we can't even broach these topics, so instead, we have these blanket -- like mandates that are just completely wrong. And I mean, if you would --

RIVERA: What about Kyrie Irving?

GUTFELD: Wait, wait, wait.

RIVERA: What about Kyrie Irving?

GUTFELD: Do you want me to call him stupid?

RIVERA: I mean, you're talking about everything --

GUTFELD: Do you want me to call him stupid?

RIVERA: -- except the defiance --

GUTFELD: I mean, do you want me to call him stupid?

RIVERA: I want to -- I want to call --

GUTFELD: Because you want to.

RIVERA: I will say this.

GUTFELD: You want to.

RIVERA: I will say this. When people make a stand like this and it's costing him and his family and his children $400,000 a game, there's something else going on besides his --

GUTFELD: Yes, it's called bravery.

RIVERA: -- his repugnance over the vaccine.

GUTFELD: Maybe money isn't the issue.

RIVERA: Bravery, that's bravery? It's bravery?

GUTFELD: Maybe money isn't the issue.

RIVERA: It's against the law in San Francisco to be unvaxxed. It's against the law of New York City to be unvaxxed, so he's going to be on -- he'd be the only one in the stadium.

PAVLICH: It's not against the law. It's not against the law.

RIVERA: It is. It's against the law.

GUTFELD: So, he should be arrested? So, you want him arrested?

RIVERA: It's illegal. There's a law.

PAVLICH: It is not against the law. That is not accurate. There are mandates where you can and cannot go, but it is not illegal to be unvaccinated. And also being unvaccinated --

RIVERA: I went -- I went to Del Frisco's, the steak place last night.

PAVLICH: Oh, the high-class problem.

RIVERA: There were two gigantic bodyguards at the door, both had big masks on. And they said, OK, Geraldo, let me see your vaccine passport. So, I'm walking, I'm lame. I should get my wallet out. Craig is helping me. I finally got to show that I'm vaccinated, and then my test to get into the steak joint across the street that I've been going through for 50 years.

GUTFELD: So, what -- so you feel because you're being punished, so should he?

RIVERA: I think that rules are rules, you know. I don't like going 65 either.

GUTFELD: I never saw you as rule-caller.

RIVERA: I don't like going 65 either. You know, I like -- I'd rather go 85, I'd rather go 105, you know, but the law -- I think that this guy is wrecking his life right now for no real reason and it's absolute stubbornness based on nothing.

GUTFELD: It's principle.

PAVLICH: So, Jesse, there are a lot of people who have a lot more to lose, who don't have millions of dollars who have stood their ground and quit their jobs or have been fired by these companies giving in to all these mandates who are standing up for this. And I think when they put -- these politicians put these mandates in, they really underestimate -- and it's underestimating what people are willing to do to stand up for what they believe in especially when it comes to their personal health.

WATTERS: De Blasio put the mandate on New York City, that's why this is happening. So, let's remember why. I understand the Nets GM doing this though. If you have a guy who can only play in road games, he has to sit at the bench --

RIVERA: Certain road games.

WATTERS: He's going to sit the bench every single home game in Brooklyn while the rest of his teammates play, and the whole crowd at the Barclays Center yells at Kyrie Irving, and then he goes back on the road and then plays road games. This is a team a sport. This isn't tennis. This isn't golf where you're out for yourself and you can pick your tournament. You need chemistry. You need -- you need the offense to flow well if you're going to make a run at a championship.

And Kyrie, he recruited Durant. He recruited Harden to come to Brooklyn to make a run at a title. And all of a sudden, now he's going to say, you know what, I'm not anti-vax or I'm not pro-vax so I'm just going to sit out half the season while you guys moved everything in your lives to come here and win a championship.

RIVERA: Knowing his other --

PAVLICH: That was before the mandate though.

RIVERA: But there was other things going on in his life last season.

WATTERS: I get that. I get that. Well, you know what, he should have just said -- this is what I would do. I wouldn't be a little cute about it. I would have said religious exemption, medical exemption. But instead, he just comes out and says, I don't know how I feel about it. It's just not a strong enough stance to make people understand it.

PAVLICH: He didn't say he doesn't know how he feels about it. He said the choice for me is this.

WATTERS: Yes, but it's about him, not about the team that he signed the contract with.

GUTFELD: But you know the worst thing about this is --

RIVERA: People are getting vaccinated because --

GUTFELD: The worst thing about this is we now have created an artificial division. A couple of years ago, it was race versus race. Thank you, CNN. It was gender issues. But now, Geraldo, you're mad at this guy.

RIVERA: I am mad at him.

GUTFELD: You're mad at him --

RIVERA: Because he's not just hurt -- he's not just hurting himself.

GUTFELD: No, but what I'm saying is you're being played. You're being played

RIVERA: He's hurting everybody like Jesse who invested in Brooklyn Nets.

GUTFELD: You're being played. You are being played.

RIVERA: You're being stubborn.

GUTFELD: No, I'm trying to explain.

RIVERA: You're being blunt-headed.

GUTFELD: Can I finish my point? You are being manipulated to disagree with somebody. This is an artificial division and we shouldn't play into this.

PAVLICH: I want Dana to dig in.

GUTFELD: This is what the mandate did.

PAVLICH: Dana.

PERINO: Well, I don't know why they couldn't do daily testing, right? So --

GUTFELD: Yes, that's true.

PERINO: You can do that in a lot of places. If you're not vaccinated, if that's the rule at your place of work, you can get daily tested. And the tests, you know, however much they cost, it's probably going to cost -- it would cost them less to do daily testing than I think to lose the guy for a season. But here's also --

RIVERA: A star.

PERINO: I wrote all this stuff down about risk-benefit analysis and consequence so I'm not going to talk about that because you already did. But this is a guy -- you know, he speaks his mind, and you might not agree with him. In 2020, he was all for calling off the whole season so that people could go out and speak about racial injustice. So, he stands for what he believes in, and you have to respect him for that.

RIVERA: Or he's got something else going on besides basketball.

PAVLICH: You don't know that.

PERINO: Somebody told me he's about to get traded anyway.

PAVLICH: All right, up next, an explosive admission of liberal media bias from Katie Couric. What she caught up from an interview with the late Justice Bader Ginsburg.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Katie Couric making a bombshell admission on liberal media bias. In her new memoir, the former anchor reveals that she cut out part of her 2016 interview with Ruth Bader Ginsburg in order to "protect the late Supreme Court Justice."

Kirk editing out RBG's scorn for taking a knee during the Kaepernick National Anthem controversy in which the Justice reportedly said those who kneeled during the anthem were showing "contempt for a government that has made it possible for their parents and grandparents to live a decent life."

I don't know, Greg. What do you think?

GUTFELD: What do I think?

WATTERS: It's slick, isn't it?

GUTFELD: It is slick, real slick.

WATTERS: Five years later.

GUTFELD: That dame is slick, I tell you. What are we in, like a 1950s, you know, detective pulp novel? This is -- how much more proof do you need that the left always has their thumb on every scale. This is especially amazing because she dismissed a Supreme Court Justice cogent opinion as the product of some kind of cognitive decline as if this malicious elf has the I.Q. to do that. Like, oh, this is such a bad eye -- this is a bad take. I better shield her because it's not her take.

WATTERS: Was it to shield her though or was it to protect the cause of the kneeling? What do you think --

GUTFELD: Both.

WATTERS: It was both.

PERINO: I think they were protecting her. Yes, I think --

WATTERS: Protecting her?

RIVERA: Protecting her profession.

PERINO: I think that she must -- but this is -- this assumes -- who are -- who's Katie Couric to assume that Ruth Bader Ginsburg needed protecting?

GUTFELD: That's the point.

PERINO: She said it on purpose. Remember they tried to get her retire because they were like, oh, she should retire, and she was like, no. Like, she knew exactly what she was doing and she was cogent to the end. If you were Yahoo! News, wouldn't you be mad. That's all about the clicks. And then --

WATTERS: Yes, that would have been a big article.

PERINO: -- she passed on giving that. And let me tell you. If somebody here did an interview with Justice Thomas and he said something that was very provocative and in 10 years from now wrote a book and said, actually, he said, you wouldn't believe what he said, but I protected him. I mean, that would be outrageous just as this is.

WATTERS: Right. And that's journalism, the most controversial thing, the interviewer or he says, you put it on blast.

RIVERA: Not that you asked but I totally agree with Justice Ginsburg's take on Kaepernick and the kneeling.

WATTERS: Not that I ask.

RIVERA: Not that you ask.

WATTERS: You don't need to say it though.

RIVERA: And everyone edits left, edits right, edits the times, edits the journal, edits the --

WATTERS: That was a significant edit.

RIVERA: People --

WATTERS: Some would say deceptive and devious.

RIVERA: I would say -- I would say unless Katie Couric admitted that she did it to save Ruth Bader Ginsburg -- I haven't read the book.

GUTFELD: She did that.

PERINO: But that's what she said in the book.

WATTERS: She did. It was in the intro.

RIVERA: I think it was an unnecessary -- I heard it but I didn't know if you were saying it or she was --

WATTERS: OK.

RIVERA: Because it was unclear.

PAVLICH: Are you OK?

WATTERS: Don't defend this, Geraldo. Don't defend this. You of all people.

RIVERA: Ruth Bader Ginsburg in my house is like -- Jewish people don't believe in idolatry, but if there was idolatry, there would be a statue of Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

PERINO: She didn't need the statue.

RIVERA: She is everything my wife admires and wants our daughter to be.

WATTERS: OK. All right.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: And Katie Couric our dear friend.

WATTERS: That's what it is.

RIVERA: Jay Monahan, her late husband was my -- was my best pal.

WATTERS: Oh, dear friend, Katie Couric. How dare you speak ill of a dear friend.

RIVERA: I love -- I love --

WATTERS: Well, at least you're loyal, Geraldo.

RIVERA: And everybody in it, everybody in it.

WATTERS: Loyal to your fold. And Katie, we were just saying, Katie does edit a lot. She edited out a piece in a gun documentary that blew up in her face.

PAVLICH: Yes. She has a history of deceptively editing to make her leftist point. So, in 2016, she deceptively edited a Virginia Citizens Defense League interview that she did with gun owners. And they gave really good answers about the law and who should and should not be able to buy a gun and what the process was and they were too smart.

So, she then edited it and made them look like they were enabling felons and domestic terrorists and that they were all for no laws at all. So, she's done this before. And she also has been a critic of conservative citizen journalists who have gone -- like, James O'Keefe for example, who has done under undercover investigative reporting and videos and saying, oh well, they deceptively edit all of their information when all that video came out of Planned Parenthood.

So, she's allowed to do it, but criticizes others for doing it. And yes, to Dana's point, the arrogance that she thought that RBG needed to be protected, I mean, come on.

PERINO: I think that RBG said that for a reason.

PAVLICH: Yes.

PERINO: She wanted it out there. She wanted to be quoted saying it. So, she was also done a disservice.

WATTERS: That's right. And "WATTERS' WORLD" never edits anything.

GUTFELD: Never.

WATTERS: Those street interviews, raw.

RIVERA: Those shows run an hour and 37 minutes.

WATTERS: "ONE MORE THING" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for "ONE MORE THING." I'll go first. This -- you know, I don't have a tattoo, but I can admire this. This is a Canadian tattoo artist. He tattooed over 70 people over nine months to recreate an iconic scene of Coco the clown from the 1933 Betty Boop film Snow-White. Here you go. Can you see that?

PAVLICH: Wow.

PERINO: Isn't that -- isn't that amazing?

WATTERS: Yes.

PERINO: 70 people all the way along to the Cab Calloway song. I don't even know what that was. Anyway, it's part of animation history and now it is tattooed.

RIVERA: That's great personal achievement there.

PERINO: Well, I think it should be in the Guinness Book of World Record.

RIVERA: That's a good place for --

GUTFELD: It should have been on the butt.

WATTERS: Greg.

GUTFELD: It should have been on the butt.

PERINO: Jesse.

WATTERS: You're too loose. You're too relaxed.

RIVERA: How would they have animated it?

WATTERS: You need to remember sometimes you're on TV.

PERINO: Your turn, Jesse.

WATTERS: All right, so --

RIVERA: Focus, focus.

WATTERS: We like -- we like gender reveals but we like gender reveals with Tigers also in the Middle East. Roll it. This is a Dubai couple. They did a gender reveal with a tiger. It's a girl. And people are upset about this. They're saying Tigers should not be used like that. But come on, it's Dubai. They can -- you could do whatever you want in Dubai, tigers, gender reveal --

GUTFELD: Not exactly.

WATTERS: Some things that Greg likes to talk about that we can't talk about on television.

GUTFELD: You're confusing countries.

PERINO: No.

GUTFELD: Dubai will put you in jail for a number of things.

WATTERS: OK. Not that apparently because they're just running wild. And no one died.

PERINO: OK. That was great. See you at 7:00?

RIVERA: Oh, my God.

WATTERS: I'll see you at 7:00.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: There you go. Look at that. Look at that lineup right there.

PERINO: What a line-up. What a line-up.

WATTERS: Guess who my favorite is? Guess who.

PAVLICH: You.

WATTERS: Guess who my favorite is? Miller. I love that guy.

PERINO: All right.

GUTFELD: Well, you --

RIVERA: For his look?

GUTFELD: Kayleigh's office is right next door.

RIVERA: Doesn't Miller have the most evil look. I think he has an evil look.

WATTERS: Evil?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: All right, it's me. Let's do the -- we haven't done this in ages.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Animals are great. Animals are great. Animals are great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Yes, you know what? You know what's the best thing you'll ever see? A baby sloth cuddling with his mother. Take a look at this. You can't get much better than that.

PERINO: Kind of lazy.

GUTFELD: It'll help erase everything you just saw on this show that upset you. Look at that. Is that --

PERINO: How long do you think it takes them to wake up?

GUTFELD: I don't know. They're very slow. That's why they're called slots. Do you know that name sloth came after the actual being slothful? Did you know that?

PERINO: No.

GUTFELD: Because it's not true.

PERINO: Oh, OK, Greg.

RIVERA: He made that up.

PERINO: It's not Wikipedia. All right, Katie.

PAVLICH: OK, I have a very exciting event announcement, so be sure to save the date. Fox Nation will be hosting its Third Annual Patriot Awards on November 17 at 8:00 p.m. at the Hard Rock live here in Hollywood, Florida. The events shines a light on our unsung American patriots who have shown a dedication to our nation and their commitments in communities.

You can meet your favorite Fox personalities including Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham, Pete Hegseth, Judge Pirro, Dan Bondgino, and many more, which is why Geraldo won't be going.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: I am going.

PAVLICH: Oh, you are going. OK.

RIVERA: And the main event will be me and Bongino.

PAVLICH: Oh, great. OK.

GUTFELD: Boxing?

PAVLICH: Some news. All right, one more thing -- one more thing about tickets because you want people to gold tier tickets are sold out but there are plenty of silver and patriot tickets left and you don't want to miss it. Purchase your tickets at FoxNation.com/patriotaward.

PERINO: Geraldo is dying to get his --

RIVERA: All right, you know I lost my cane during the night of the floods here, my $500.oo Italian cane.

GUTFELD: Your -- again --

RIVERA: So, this is pick my cane news with Geraldo. House of Canes, the wonderful best cane store in the New York metropolitan area has sent me three great canes to choose one. What do you think? Everybody, look here. This is the Mustang, this is the Brass Eagle, and this is the lion with open mouth.

WATTERS: I like the Mustang.

PERINO: I'll go with the Mustang too.

PAVLICH: Eagle.

GUTFELD: Mustang.

WATTERS: Yes, the Mustang.

RIVERA: I say it's the Mustang, with all due respect, I think it's the mustang because I want to like pop somebody, like maybe if Greg --

PERINO: I feel as if you want to pop us today. All right, that is it for us. "SPECIAL REPORT" is up next. Hey, Bret.

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