'The Five' on Biden's mask mandate grounded

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'The Five' react to Florida judge striking down Biden's mask mandate

'The Five' panel discusses U.S. District Judge Kathryn Mizelle striking down the Biden administration's mask mandate on planes and public transportation.

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 19, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: I'm Greg Gutfeld along with Judge Jeanine Pirro, Geraldo Rivera, Sean Duffy and she once run a marathon on a hamster wheel, Dana Perino, THE FIVE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Mr. President, should people continue to wear masks on planes?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: That's up to them.

UNKNOWN: Are you gonna apply to appeal the ruling, the rule that the judge made striking down the mandate?

BIDEN: I haven't spoken to the CDC yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: President Biden reacting as this mask mandate for planes gets grounded. A federal judge in Florida ruling his administration does not have the authority to continue enforcing the much despised rule. So you can now void the wrath of being scolded by the flight attendant in between sips of vodka, I mean, water. Airports and airlines all over the country dropping the requirement and cheers breaking out mid-flight after passengers heard the news.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: A judge overturned the mask mandate. At this moment, if you chose to, you may remove your mask.

UNKNOWN: It's over. Immediately. Congratulations!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: A lot of cheers there. The end of the mask mandate could also mean the end to all the nasty mid-air fights with people going Jerry Springer on each other over having to cover up. But not so fast. The White House not ruling out a challenge to bring the mandates back. And of course, the media is cheering them on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Just because this ruling was made by a judge doesn't mean that suddenly the science is hinged.

UNKNOWN: What we saw was a legal decision not a public health decision.

LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Guess who is not lifting his personal mask mandate on airplanes? I will not. I ain't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: They like to -- they just need to stay together despite the science. Dana, the one thing that we keep hearing, you know, oh there's mask mayhem and mass chaos. How hard is it? You either wear it or you don't. You don't have to -- this is not -- no one's putting a gun to your head. You can still wear it. Why are you flipping out?

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: It's really incredible to me that the White House decided to basically yesterday take the L.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: We're disappointed in that decision. But instead of like accepting the win, they want to make it all muddled.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: So you have the president saying, well, that's up to them. Well, we have to talk to the CDC. Well, we're not really sure. Instead of just saying the court has spoken, make good personal choices for yourself. This is March or April of 2022. It's not March of 2020. We have vaccines. We have therapeutics. We have many people that have natural immunity. We also know from the own e-mails between Fauci and Walensky that the six feet to slow the spread was just a number they threw out there.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: And that airline CEO of -- he who testified saying that what the studies that they've shown is because the air is recirculated sitting on a plane right next to somebody is like sitting 15 feet away from them on an airplane.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: So the six feet thing that's twice that.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: So, they're not following the science. They're not following the politics. And the other thing is don't forget, it wasn't the Biden administration made decisive action and the president is saying I've looked at the science and I'm making a decision and this is where we're going. No. Every single time they get pushed into doing something, it's either by Congress or a court.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: There's not a lot of decisiveness going on.

GUTFELD: No. You know, Sean, people like Valerie Jarrett says, I don't care whether -- but I'm still wearing my mask. It seems to me that they've -- some people and it's basically on the left side have latched on to the mask as an identity component. It's like a human bumper sticker.

SEAN DUFFY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: It's like you -- it would be like you, me going up and say you need to take that visualized world peace bumper sticker off your car. That's -- they feel like you can't take this mask from me. We're not.

DUFFY: This is their liberal flag where you put it on and I show my liberal stripes, but just I got to tell you what, I'm so happy about this.

PERINO: Me too.

DUFFY: This being lifted because now all of America gets to see the beautiful mustache on Geraldo. You're never going to mask it again. It's like, we want to see it, right?

PERINO: It's amazing.

DUFFY: Gorgeous.

GUTFELD: Yes. No, stick the mask back on. I was going to -- I thought you were going to bring up the fact that you -- how many kids you got? You must live --

DUFFY: Nine.

GUTFELD: -- when you got to mask them. You got nine kids.

DUFFY: It is horrible. I don't mask them. I don't --

GUTFELD: That's a whole box.

DUFFY: Yes.

GUTFELD: It's a box of masks.

DUFFY: But to Dana's point, I think the White House actually loves this ruling. They don't have the backbone to actually make it themselves. They're waiting for a court to do what they should have done and now they're not going to appeal this. Watch, they won't do it.

PERINO: Nope.

DUFFY: And what's frustrating is the CDC is saying we needed two more weeks to look at the science, look at the data. Well the truth is, well, we've given them billions of dollars. The fact that they can't actually look at the data and immediately say listen, we know that there's a rise in in COVID infections, however, hospitalizations haven't spiked.

GUTFELD: Yes.

DUFFY: This is not that bad. Take your mask off and fly, little friends, fly.

GUTFELD: Yes. Judge, did you notice how the media was going after the judge?

JEANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS HOST: Absolutely. She was (inaudible) judge.

GUTFELD: She's the young, single female, inexperienced, all the -- all the dog whistles for sexism.

PIRRO: All the dog whistles. I mean, the fact that she would--

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS HOST: Not qualified.

GUTFELD: Not -- there you go. Not qualified.

PIRRO: Right. You're not qualified.

RIVERA: That's why they have American Bar Association.

PIRRO: Would you like to answer it?

RIVERA: No, I don't.

PIRRO: Don't call me darling.

RIVERA: I didn't. I --

PIRRO: Say you're sorry.

RIVERA: I do. I am. I am.

PIRRO: All right here's the bottom line. Because she was a Trump appointee --

GUTFELD: Yes.

PIRRO: -- they're furious about it. They can't say anything else. The judge was very clear. She said they failed -- the administration failed to adequately explain their decision there in -- is the science argument. The mandate exceeded the statutory authority of the CDC. The judge was very correct on that. The CDC did not have the statutory authority to mandate that we may wear these masks. And they improperly -- they didn't do it properly. They were supposed to ask for notice and comment.

So everything that she said was accurate. And here's the bottom line. We've got freedom at last. If you don't -- if you want to wear a mask, you want to muzzle yourself, go right ahead. Stop bothering me anymore. I have freedom finally. We all have a freedom to do what we want to do and the judge was absolutely on point, and they're mad.

And what they're going to do is that totalitarian instinct is very strong. They're going to continue to try to embarrass us and bully us into wearing masks.

GUTFELD: No. Geraldo, you've been on this planet a while. It seems like there's a flip going on. You would think if you step back it would have been the Republicans and the left -- the people who take less -- fewer risks would be pro mask and it would be the freedom loving liberals, you know, the, you know, burn your bra, but it's flipped.

It's now the liberals are like, we want our face covered, we want to shut down, and it's the -- it's the true freedom loving right.

RIVERA: Well, imagine how confusing it is for someone like me in the middle of the road. I have a picture of myself on the flight today. I didn't know what to do. Half the people had mask, half the people didn't have mask. They announced it. I just saw and I decided to just drape it from my (inaudible).

GUTFELD: There you go.

RIVERA: That's better. That is schnoz there in the middle of it. You know, I think, Greg, to your point, that it all -- all of these decisions are political. Those we agree with, the judge is wise. As we disagree with the judges, you know, is inexperienced then incompetent or this and that and the other thing.

I agree with Dana. I tweeted as soon as I saw her comments on it on Sunday I think it was. You got to go with the flow. The judge has decided. It was only a couple of weeks left anyway even in the best of circumstances so why not say, okay, we did what we were supposed to do and now the judge has ruled and let's move on.

PIRRO: And test.

RIVERA: And you know, you want to wear them, you wear it. You don't want to wear them, you don't want to wear them. But it was almost over anyway.

GUTFELD: You know the -- what the masks kind of taught us? We keep talk -- hearing about racial divisions and all sorts of divisions. Really is a class division. We go back to that Met gala. That one image of the powerful unmasked and all the servants masked. I mean, I think we learned that there's an authentic division in our country and its power, powerlessness, and the mask is kind of the symbol.

PERINO: And I hope that that is going to start to lift as well because that's still happening at retail shops and at restaurants. And if it's a personal preference or if there's a need, if there's an immuno-compromised person that wants to wear a mask, absolutely respect that. That shouldn't be something that anyone makes fun of anybody about.

But I also think that the White House is just missing this opportunity to say this is great, America. Look at -- look at how much better we are. And when -- and you know, they could take this opportunity to make fun of China. Look at these guys. Look at these guys. They're having to do all of these really draconian things while we have succeeded. The country is getting back to normal.

GUTFELD: Yes.

RIVERA: Live and let live.

PERINO: They just miss every opportunity.

DUFFY: Obama's birthday party, too.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PIRRO: Gosh, yes.

DUFFY: All the guests there maskless in a certain --

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: Stop judging. Stop judging.

GUTFELD: It's -- no, the issue is it feels uncomfortable when someone is wearing a mask waiting on you and you're not wearing a mask.

PERINO: Agree.

GUTFELD: I'm sorry, psychologically it bothers me.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: It's like I feel a difference. I feel, okay, that tells me you are serving me. I don't like that feeling.

RIVERA: Interesting.

GUTFELD: You know. I think it's --

PERINO: Remember Pelosi's -- that dinner party she had and everybody -- nobody else had to wear a mask except for the staff. And I don't like it either. It makes me not want to go into -- there's a particular department store here I like to go to, but I don't like to go with it. You can't hear anybody -- talk about (ph). And I feel bad.

GUTFELD: I want to pull it off, but then that would be assault.

PIRRO: Yes. Say, what did you say? I can't -- it's like you can't see their mouth and it's like what did you say, I don't understand.

GUTFELD: It's the most dehumanizing thing. It's a face, it's the mouth. Everything is there on for a reason so you can communicate.

RIVERA: It is over now. It is over.

GUTFELD: Yes. Geraldo says it's over.

PERINO: Okay.

RIVERA: It's over.

GUTFELD: All right.

RIVERA: Thanks, Sean.

DUFFY: (Inaudible) that mask.

GUTFELD: Coming up, the Democrats worst nightmare is about to come true. We'll tell you more about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PIRRO: The Democrats left with some truly terrible options for 2024. President Biden has reportedly told Barack Obama that he intends to run for re-election despite his poll numbers being in the dumps and his presidency turning into a train wreck for the country. But his party may have no other choice. Have you seen the alternative?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESTER HOLT, NBC HOST: You haven't been to the border.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And I haven't been to Europe, and I mean I don't -- and I don't understand the point that you're making.

I'm talking about the significance of the passage of time, right? The significance of the passage of time. So when you think about it, there is great significance to the passage of time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: And this one has got to sting. A "Washington Post" writer bumping Kamala Harris down on their 2024 Democratic presidential contenders list, putting her behind Pete Buttigieg. Okay, let's start with Joe Biden though. How can a man whose numbers are so low and so in the tank believe that he deserves another chance at running for president of the United States given the fact that he's told Barack Obama that he's going to run again. I mean, this is a man who's got to read some of the stuff about him that he's, you know, cognitively weak and his aptitude ain't what it used to be.

PERINO: I think anyone who actually does throw their hat in the ring to run for president has a confidence in themselves that I certainly don't have and it's unfathomable to me. So, there's one, there's that. That he does think -- and he's thought that he should be president for a long time, decades.

Also, I think practically either he or his people know that if he were to say he's not running at this point that means they'll absolutely get nothing done. I think that when they lose in the midterms that there will be a real reckoning and that you might all of a sudden see a decision about 2024 then.

I do wish I had been a fly on the wall when Kamala Harris heard this news because I think she's been sitting there thinking are you kidding me. I'm sitting here trying to warm this seat and I'm not going to -- and be able to have a go at it. But also, let me tell you the -- some of these senators who are up for re-election in 2024, the Democrats who would be on the ballot with Biden.

That would be John Tester of Montana, Joe Manchin of West Virginia, Sherrod Brown of Ohio, Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, Jackie Rosen in Nevada, Debbie Stabenow in Michigan. And they would probably lose all of those seats. So there's a practicality that's happening there.

The last thing I would say is there's something happening where this leak came from an Obama camp, okay. So Obama was apparently told this by Biden. Obama has probably told a couple of people. Those people go out and don't give their names to the press.

RIVERA: Right.

PERINO: But they leak this out and I think it's because the Obama people don't want Biden to run again and they're trying to get it out there now so that it's out there in the water.

PIRRO: Do you think that the Obama people want Kamala to run, Geraldo?

RIVERA: I don't know. You know, people that live in that political world are different than me. I just think that if not Biden, I don't know who could run against Trump.

PIRRO: Okay. Well then --

RIVERA: I think Biden is the only one who could beat Trump. And I also think that the cognitive decline is exaggerated by ideological news coverage. And I also think that we exaggerate how badly Biden is doing compared to Trump --

PIRRO: All right.

RIVERA: -- at the same point in his presidency. According to FiveThirtyEight, Biden is slightly ahead of Trump at this point of his presidency.

PIRRO: All right. Let me ask you then about Hispanic voters who were disillusioned and disenchanted with Joe Biden. Just 26 percent according to Quinnipiac Polls support Biden. That is very unusual.

RIVERA: It is -- it is devastating. It is devastating and I mentioned to Dana last week. I think that in my opinion Hispanics are more interested in inflation and the economy than they are issues like, you know, the raging fire over immigration. That's less relevant to most Hispanic families.

I think they don't like Biden because he's into bed with the progressives and most Hispanics many of them are conservatives.

PIRRO: But what are you saying they're more concerned about food and inflation, but not the border?

RIVERA: Yes.

PIRRO: They're concerned about the border, too. The Hispanics, many of them are very concerned about the illegal immigration. But you know what, I want to go to you, Greg. I want to talk about Kamala Harris.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PIRRO: And I want -- I want to ask you to listen to this. It costs more money at the pump. She said this at a DNC meeting last night or the night before.

GUTFELD: So far so good.

PIRRO: Yes. It cost more money at the pump and we have to deal with that. We need to acknowledge, but also need to keep with our program around making it easier to get by day by day, which means again, going back to child care. She just said that in the last 24-48 hours.

GUTFELD: She's this generation's Hemingway. I don't see how you can -- that made total sense to me. Everything she just said, you know. You know what causes inflation? Rising prices. You know, she also -- do you know what she did. She went to Hollywood. Do you know that? She went to Hollywood. And the reason why she went to Hollywood is because she needed to find a group that is even more unpopular than her to do that.

So she appears a little bit more confident that's why I hang around Dana and you, Judge. I appear taller to some people because you people are tiny, tiny people. But that's what she's doing. She went to Hollywood because she needed to be around people that just are -- just worse than she is and then she kind of looks, okay.

Joe told Obama he was running in 2024. He also told him he was Batman that he could lift a car over his head and now he can just hold his breath underwater for three days. But if you -- if he ran, you got to think about this. I think that Geraldo's right in part about the exaggeration of some of the cognitive declines. However, it's there and in two years it's really going to be there.

He's like a roll of toilet paper. Every day you can see it getting less and less there. He's a toilet paper roll of presidents.

RIVERA: We all get that.

GUTFELD: Yes, we all guessed.

DUFFY: I don't understand.

PIRRO: Okay. All right. You know, but there's one thing -- one thing I do want to add to that. When she defaulted to child care I said to myself I am so sick and tired of hearing about child care. We need to take care of child care. So he looked up the numbers and, Sean, you might relate to this. There are 330 million people in the United States. There are 46 million parents who have children under the age of 12.

So they keep saying child care is the most important thing, but out of 330 million, 46 million have kids under the age of 12. I'm sure most -- a lot of them don't need the additional child care, but why do they keep defaulting to that?

DUFFY: Listen -- because it's a switcheroo, right? Don't look at inflation, and if your prices are going up at the gas pump, if your prices are going up the grocery store, we're going to help you with child care. It's an answer they can have to the problems that people face.

I got to tell you, I disagree with Geraldo in the sense that Donald Trump is hoping that Joe Biden runs again. That is the best matchup ever, number one. Number two, with Hispanics they do care about inflation but they also care about the CRT and the transgenderism that's being taught to their kids in school.

RIVERA: I agree. I agree.

DUFFY: That does not fit their values. And so I do think Joe Biden has worked a lifetime to be president. He's there. He is not going to leave. The only way he leaves is when the liberal media decides that he has to go, and if they turn on him and start telling the truth about who he is, the liberal media will decide if he's in or out and who knows what happens.

His poll numbers are very low right now. But listen, two and a half years is an eternity in politics. A lot of things can change in that time frame and I think it's too early to count him out.

PIRRO: All right, up next, more proof Democrats defund the police was a catastrophic failure with deadly consequences.

(COMMERRIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: We have to reimagine public safety and how we do public safety in our country.

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): Not only do we need to defund but we need to dismantle and start anew.

REP. ALEXANDRIA-OCASIO CORTEZ (D-NY): Talking about the reduction of our NYPD budget and defunding a $6 billion NYPD budget.

REP. CORI BUSH (D-MO): I am for defunding the police.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERA: Yikes. The push by Democrats to defund the police following the murder in Minneapolis of George Floyd has almost certainly had devastating consequences for the very population the Democrats were claiming to help. Criminal justice experts telling Fox News that support for the Black Lives Matter Movement and related calls to cut funding to the cops has had several unintended consequences all bad.

For one thing, the toxic environment has caused thousands of cops to disengage or leave law enforcement altogether. More importantly, there has been an epidemic of urban violence that is unprecedented for recent years. According to statistics from the FBI, since George Floyd, there's been a 32 percent increase in the murders of black Americans mostly by other black Americans.

Example, in 2019, nearly 7,500 were killed. A year later by 2020, the number had grown to more than 9,900. According to DOJ statistics, homicide is now the leading cause of death of young black men, and yet, Dana, not a peep from any major civil rights figure or organization.

PERINO: Where is the protest?

RIVERA: Where is the protest? Where is the NAACP?

PERINO: I'm looking for it. I think this defund the police even though Joe Biden, well, as it goes at great lengths to say I never said defund the police like, well, you have all of these people that have said it and they are going to have to deal with that coming forward.

And it's not enough for them to say well, we -- and you'll see the White House do this -- we put more money in the budget for police, but where's the support for police? And that starts with the prosecutors as well. I'm sure we'll talk about that.

I think that this is showing that just this continued massive expanse between what Democrats in Washington that are really driven by radicals think and what Americans are thinking. Because if you look at any of the polls, always it says that they don't believe that the president understands what they're going through or cares about the things that they care about.

And one of the most important things is the security of the people and they see this on their T.V.'s every night and it's not just here in the city, it's not just in Los Angeles or Chicago. It's all across America.

RIVERA: Public safety is everything, but black lives seem to matter to organizational BLM people only when a cop is involved, judge.

PIRRO: Only when a cop is involved and it's interesting, Geraldo, when you -- when you distinguish between organizational Black Lives Matter people. Those are the people for which who raised $90 million and now no one is willing to admit that they're part of the organization and now we've got the IRS and everybody else looking at whether or not they defrauded the government.

But you know, when you read the introduction to that, they are so shocked by the "unintended consequences of defunding police." Are you kidding me? This is the only -- the police are the only barrier that we have between an anarchy and a civilized society, between barbarism and total organization.

And when we start listening to people like AOC and Cori Bush, these are not experts in law enforcement. They don't know anything about law enforcement. They haven't spent their career or they haven't studied it, all right. Let's talk to the people who've been in law enforcement, when crimes have been knocked down, when we took it from the 90's all the way down to making New York City the safest big city in the United States.

These people are nothing more than ideologues who are looking to tear down the system at the collateral price to them of killing innocent citizens. And I'm tired of it. I'm tired of them telling us what needs to be done. I don't need to hear from Ilhan Omar on how we should defund police. Every penny taken from the police should be put right back in that budget.

Those people were standing in Albany like Andrea Stewart-Cousins, and the other one. He sees preventing a change in the bail law. Their pictures should be all over. People should be marching and protesting them because it is literally the people who have no voice are the ones who are suffering.

It's black-on-black crime, where the minority inner-city community and the minority community everywhere is hurting because of drugs, which we don't talk about anymore and because of the of guns, where everybody is concerned about the legal gun owner and not the illegal gun owner. That's all I have to say.

RIVERA: I heard you on the "Well, Judge --

DUFFY: Tell us what you think.

RIVERA: She's red hot. The Black men being killed seven, eight times the rate of white men. I mean, this is the civil rights issue of our time.

DUFFY: It truly is. And so, if you look at the issues of defund the police, so many more people have died and African Americans have died. More African Americans are dying than white individuals in America. And it's only 13 percent of the population of African-Americans. Whites are what, 76 percent of the population. So, it's a huge disparity.

But also, if you look at the Southern Border policy of Joe Biden, more migrants are dying now under Joe Biden than under Donald Trump. Then you look at the drugs that fall into that country because of the open border, we have 100,000 Americans lost their lives from drug overdoses. So, you look at Democrat policies, they kill. They're killing people. They're horrible policies.

And one last point, I was a prosecutor, you're a judge and a prosecutor. George Gascon, on the D.A. which I think you've covered tonight, Greg, on your show. The D.A. in L.A. has reformed the way he's doing enhancements to crimes. And so, one defendant was going to tattoo George Gascon's name on a face. He was so happy with it.

No one wanted to tattoo their name -- my name on their face or probably yours, Judge. I got death threats when I was a prosecutor because I did my job. If you're tattooing someone's --

RIVERA: Where are my fans when I need them?

DUFFY: -- name on your face, you are not doing your job as a prosecutor.

RIVERA: But excluding cities like Seattle and Cleveland, my own town, Greg, most municipalities are taking this into their own hands. They're refunding the police rather than defunding the police. Cops now, their virtue is being extolled once again.

GUTFELD: There's one thing that isn't local that used to be local and that was the news, right? So, there's one thing that the police can't deal with, and that's the coverage of these issues. So, when you talk about cops involved in unarmed Black interactions that result in death, it's actually like one dozen to two dozen, then you drill down, and each one is individually different. And so -- and you find out bigger stories, some of them are definitely horrible.

Black on Black crime, death is in the thousands. So, there -- this is -- these are two separate problems, and one is far bigger. So -- but you end up with this cause and effect by the coverage which made a small group of cases appear large. How many times did the news replay the George Floyd videos? It was -- it was on a loop nonstop.

What was the result? Legitimately, when they did research Democrats actually believed that thousands of unarmed Black men were killed by the police. And it was because, very simple, information coming into your head, the videos over and over again. So, then you jump to now, we have this research, it's 32 to 40 some odd percent of increase in murdered Blacks.

So, now you do have the thousands. You do have the thousands of dead Black men, not just a few on a video. That's kind of an -- it's a horrible irony that that's almost created that in a way because we drove the rage and the division and everything with those videos to a point where now you have it.

It's a very -- and there's another final deeply racist point behind this. The left believes that the rules of law and order that apply to everybody do not apply to Blacks because they're oppressed. And so, who dies? More Blacks. So, good on you BLM and all you leftists who thought you were doing good for the -- for Blacks, because what you did is you took away what they really needed, which is a civil society which we all want, which we all love, law and order. Taking that away helps no one. It's about freedom.

RIVERA: This is the civil rights issue of our time.

DUFFY: Yes.

RIVERA: Ahead, is college worth the sky-high cost. The new reason why people are reconsidering college.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DUFFY: While Democrats push to cancel student debt, more parents are debating if college is worth the enormous costs. More than half of graduates over the age of 25 don't actually work in the field of study they got a degree in. While people pay buckets of money for the campus experience, they're getting nearly nothing in return.

And new report says 25 percent of grads earn less than $30,000 a year. So, Greg --

GUTFELD: Yes.

DUFFY: Is college worth it? I mean, here's -- the other side of it says so many of the grads don't work in their fields of study. I don't think that's necessarily the issue. It's the fact that they're getting that with massive amounts of debt.

GUTFELD: Yes. It doesn't matter if it's worth it, if it's required in life. I mean, college degree is not meant to give you any knowledge. It's so you -- it's a signal that gets you into the club. It's a six-figure cover charge to get you into the bar of life. It's a virtue signal. And it always has been a virtue signal.

So -- but now, the virtue signal of a -- of a BA bachelor's degree is not enough so then it's like well, this person has a masters, well, this person has a PhD. You're now in an arms race of degrees. And the hangover is you pay it off later. It's the debt that you're accruing. It would be a shame if we could get people out of -- out of this track and say, look, trade schools, the military, there's ways to gain experience in life, so you don't end up in six, seven figures in debt.

And by the way, nobody's paying for it. You're paying for it. That's something I would go to war for. Cancel debt, no, no, no, no. And everybody who paid their debts would be on the -- on the military -- on my side.

PIRRO: That's right. I'm with you already.

PERINO: I'm with you.

GUTFELD: Yes, yes.

DUFFY: The average cost of a graduate's debt is $37,000. But a lot of these, like social sciences, communications, art majors make less than $45,000 a year. They can never pay this back.

PIRRO: Well, you know what? First of all, Jen Psaki is the one who says, we've got so many jobs available. She's the one who says the economy so good. And yet they're the same people are talking about maybe getting rid of student debt. Look, if you can't afford it, go to a state school, go to a community college.

RIVERA: Yes.

PIRRO: You don't have to go to the best school. Get a job. I had a job in college. I had a job in law school. I worked in the legislature. I mean, I -- you know what? Stop with this nonsense, this namby-pamby, you got to pay my bill. I don't want to pay your bill. Pay your own bill.

GUTFELD: There you go.

DUFFY: But Dana, isn't that really the choice you have? You can go to a community college, get two years of your degree out of the way very cheaply. And then you go anywhere in the country with that degree.

PERINO: I used to have a lot of sort of college degree intimidation factor because I went to a small school, the University of Southern Colorado, now called CSU in Pueblo. I was on a full-ride scholarship for the speech team. And then I go to the White House, and I'm surrounded by all these people who went to Harvard and Yale and Berkeley.

GUTFELD: And they're stupid.

PERINO: And I -- there were times where I was like --

DUFFY: Yes, they are.

PERINO: And I thought I don't know as much as they did. And there were things that I didn't know, like the classes I didn't have a chance to take. But then I realized that the President would turn to me and asked me for my opinion just as often as he would somebody else. So, I always encourage people, yes, if you think you want to go to college, you absolutely should pursue it.

We talked about immigrants early on, especially Hispanics. Of course, they want their children to go to college, because while there's that study that says that you -- some college graduates make less than $30,000 a year, over the course of your lifetime, if you have a college degree, you are likely to have more wealth.

That could change, however, tech companies now they're no longer requiring that four-year Bachelor of Arts degree or Bachelor of Science degree. They're starting to figure this out. And there's a lot of ways you can enhance your life and learn about things that you might learn about in college through other means now, including YouTube podcasts, and just working.

DUFFY: So, Geraldo --

RIVERA: I agree with everything she said.

GUTFELD: Next up.

DUFFY: -- there's a movement to have -- right -- government paying for student loan debt, but should we go back to the universities that he's charged, you know, $150,000 for an education that kids can't earn a salary and pay it back?

RIVERA: Absolutely. Absolutely. First of all, I agree with my friend Ro Khanna, the congressman from California who says, forget about forgetting - - forgiving -- well, he doesn't say, forget about forgiving student debt, but he prioritizes free community college. I think this should be Community College for everybody for free.

My son, my second son, Cruz, is an engineer from Texas A&M. He works building elevators and escalators here in town, a union job. A lot of the people he work with barely graduate college or didn't even graduate college and they make the same money, which is a great salary and very proud of them. But college was not necessary for what he does.

PERINO: Yes. The free community college just turns into the next two years of high school. Like, I --

RIVERA: So what? I mean --

PERINO: Well, because you don't need -- because that's what -- I get mad thinking about as a taxpayer, I want K through 12 education to be better.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: You shouldn't have to have another two years of remedial English?

DUFFY: One quick point to that, then we got to go.

RIVERA: The biggest problem in urban America is the kids from 18 to 21. They got to get over that hump. They graduated high school and then they got --

PERINO: They're being graduated without being able to do --

(CROSSTALK)

PIRRO: Wait a minute. No, I got to say -- I got to add something.

DUFFY: Quickly.

PIRRO: Do you know how many kids are coming through the southern border that we are educating in schools if you want to talk about the cost of education? And I ended.

RIVERA: God bless them.

DUFFY: Well, I was -- I got to see what --

PIRRO: God bless them?

RIVERA: God bless them all.

DUFFY: -- what these schools are teaching our kids and it's absolute garbage. All right, we got to go. "THE FASTEST" is coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Welcome back. It's time for "THE FASTEST." First up, a heart- stopping video. Viewer warning, this might be hard to watch. I know it was for me. A woman somehow surviving a brutal tumble off of a subway platform getting sandwich right between the oncoming cars.

She felt lightheaded, she fainted. The woman is now out of the hospital thanks to quickly thinking of the security who rescued her from the tracks the woman saying later "I don't know how I'm still alive." And it really is a miracle that she felt right between -- she's -- she was lightheaded, she fainted, she fell forward, and she lives.

DUFFY: It's horrible.

PERINO: And isn't that incredible, Sean?

PIRRO: It's Argentina.

DUFFY: Well, she hit her head first, right? So, she headed to the train and then perfectly sandwiches headfirst down, legs up, and then survives. I can't believe it.

PIRRO: OK, look at it now.

PERINO: OK, but i get -- it's hard. I have a hard time.

RIVERA: It's like rag doll.

DUFFY: I thought she was drunk by the way. Actually, she was passing out.

PERINO: Yes, she just -- she was unwell. She fainted. Greg?

GUTFELD: Obviously, it was good that she was wearing a mask.

RIVERA: It's Argentina.

PERINO: Touche indeed. I bet they were. She might have been wearing a mask. Judge, anything else to say?

PIRRO: Nothing. I mean, if I were her, I go to -- I go to church right away and thank God.

DUFFY: Go gamble.

GUTFELD: Never take the subway.

PERINO: All right, well, then we'll move on to our next topic. A big teachers group thinks that books are overrated. They are calling for a new emphasis focused on digital media and popular culture and say it is time to dissenter traditional activities like reading books and writing essays.

Sean, you have a ton of kids. What do you think of this topic?

DUFFY: If I was going to pay for these teachers to say don't read books and don't write essays, why are we getting an education? I can do the social media right at home. Turn on YouTube, let them go to social media wild. I'm sending them to school to actually read classics and learn how to write. That's what the schools are for. This is idiotic.

RIVERA: Are they in parochial school or private school.

DUFFY: They're in private school. And by the way, it's painful though to pay that amount of --

RIVERA: You paying tuition for nine kids?

DUFFY: Yes.

RIVERA: Dude, you better work overtime.

DUFFY: No, I know. Tell me about it.

PIRRO: Private? Did you say private or --

PERINO: Private.

DUFFY: Private school.

PIRRO: Private.

DUFFY: So, I pay for the public school and my kids go to private school.

PIRRO: Right. I know. State taxes.

DUFFY: I'm not going to let them wokify my kids.

PERINO: And Greg, it is proven at the more -- if you read more that you become a better writer.

GUTFELD: That is a lie.

PERINO: Really?

GUTFELD: No, I don't know. Books are hard. Let's kind of be honest about how hard reading is. Reading is really -- you sit down -- it's such a weird thing, because you're doing two things at once. You're processing words, while you're imagining the information playing out at the same time. And sometimes you'll kind of skip down and look over down at the page to see if you're almost done.

And maybe you'll turn a page and go, how many more pages are there, and you're hoping the chapters not that long? And you go, oh my God, 20 pages. It's going to take an hour for me to get there. How do people read books? And all of a sudden you start thinking about like, how do people read books. And then you just totally put the book down, you forget that you were reading a book.

PERINO: That never happens.

GUTFELD: That never happens? That happens to me every time I pick up a book, although Tyrus' book, holy crap, it's amazing.

PIRRO: We love Tyrus' book.

GUTFELD: You read it.

PIRRO: I read Tyrus' book this weekend. I thought it is phenomenal.

PERINO: Isn't it great?

PIRRO: But you know what's interesting? I do what you do. I read the book, and I go, oh, OK, OK. You know, I can edit the book. I want to take out all the unnecessary words.

PERINO: Wait, you guys are ruining the segment.

PIRRO: Yes. We're ruining it?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: You want to skip to the -- you've been reading it and you go like, I just wanted that part.

PIRRO: Yes, I want to slap and say, who edited this thing. Then I go to how many pages are left? I'm sorry.

PIRRO: Geraldo.

GUTFELD: Tyrus' book is action after action, after action.

PIRRO: Tyrus' book is worth -- what's it called -- a memoir.

PERINO: Just Tyrus.

GUTFELD: Just Tyrus.

RIVERA: I don't like when either activist politicians or political unions mess with books.

PERINO: OK.

DUFFY: My Christmas book was awesome not to --

PERINO: Yes, thank you.

PIRRO: Oh, gosh.

PERINO: And don't forget to get the paperback version of everyone -- Everything Will Be Okay.

PIRRO: We didn't hear that.

PERINO: "ONE MORE THING" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: "ONE MORE THING." Dana.

PERINO: I want to show you this adorable dog named Trompita, very excited to share some burgers with its owner until he discovered that his was much smaller than his owner's and that is not right. He wants the bigger one. He does not like to be tricked. And I would like to know how they've figured this out. Very good, Trompita.

GUTFELD: That's fantastic. He's got some broad shoulders for a dog.

PERINO: Yes.

DUFFY: He looks like he works out.

PERINO: I also -- if you could check it out, I wrote an opinion piece with my friend and Army Week Association COO Jen Wilson called We Cannot Forget Our Afghan heroes and Our Promises To Help Them. It's out now on foxnews.com. And it talks about in particular two of the Afghan interpreters that we talked about a lot on "AMERICA'S NEWSROOM." And it's an outrage what's happening to them. The State Department should read it.

GUTFELD: All right, tonight, on "GUTFELD!" great show. I'm going to have Susan Li, Guy Benson, Joe DeVito, Kat Timpf. We've got some surprises that are going to blow your mind. Let's do this now. Greg's Job Search. As you know, I signed up for LinkedIn a few months ago and they asked me what my job description was, and I wrote host.

So, now I get all these job offers and I got three yesterday. This is from Target of all places. I'll be a general manager and food host. I have to make sure the product set and deal with the foodservice food and beverage for a safe food experience. Vice of all places is looking for an associate test kitchen.

PERINO: You should apply.

GUTFELD: I would do that. If they test the stuff that I want to test, I'll be there but I have to have excellent written, oral, and presentation skills, so I don't know. Also, finally, Texas Roadhouse host. That sounds like fun. I get to give the first time guests an extra special welcome.

PERINO: Also, they've got a barbecue there.

GUTFELD: Yes, there is a lot of fresh-baked bread. All right, who's up?

PIRRO: Me.

GUTFELD: It's now the judge.

PIRRO: OK, so six stranded sailors were rescued from a deserted island thanks to a message in a bottle. They're on this island for two weeks after the vessel that they were on caught fire in the ocean. And so, what they decided to do was send a message in a bottle. And in the bottle, they said, you know, please let our family know that we're out to sea. We have no food, we have nothing but some rainwater.

PERINO: Oh, wow.

PIRRO: And somebody actually opened the bottle and they sent out the Brazilian Navy that find them.

PERINO: Oh my God.

PIRRO: Now, I just want to make sure that this is real, but they say it's real. So, it's real and that's the end of that.

GUTFELD: How do you know it's real?

PIRRO: Because I said so.

GUTFELD: I'm going to call B.S. on it.

RIVERA: I believe it.

PIRRO: It's was like the bear. Remember the bear?

GUTFELD: Yes.

PIRRO: And nobody thought it was real. It was real. I'm telling you it's real. Go ahead.

PERINO: It's a real bear.

RIVERA: Time for Geraldo's Geraldo news with Gerald. And here, meet Geraldo Jr. Just kidding. His name is Skipper, my new -- my new dog, our new dog. Erica, and I, and Sol have this new dog and he's a Labrador Retriever.

PIRRO: Oh, cute.

RIVERA: And it's his first time in the snow. He's so adorable. He's already doubled in size in the 10 days that we've owned him.

PERINO: Yes, he grows so fast.

RIVERA: And Dana Perino gave him a bottle of champagne from -- a pawduct of France.

GUTFELD: Right.

RIVERA: A doggy champagne. Let's throw that. He's big retriever.

GUTFELD: Oh, there you go. That's cute.

DUFFY: Great picture. You got the waffle here coming down, and funky glasses, always looking great. Okay, my "ONE MORE THING." This is body cam footage from the Indianapolis Police Department. A fire broke out in an apartment complex at 3:30 in the morning. And the mother was forced to throw her two children out of the building to save them.

Bodycam footage shows the police officers catching the two kids. After they were out safely, the mom jumped out as well. Just again going to show all the great work that men do to keep our community safe. Another great example right here.

PIRRO: Absolutely.

DUFFY: And by the way, how scary is that to be a parent and a fire is going on. You're trying to throw your kids out of the house.

GUTFELD: I don't believe that -- I don't believe that shipwreck story at all.

PIRRO: OK. Game on.

GUTFELD: I don't believe it at all.

PIRRO: Game on.

GUTFELD: Yes, we'll bet. Let's bet. Let's bet it.

PIRRO: How much do you want to bet?

GUTFELD: Let's bet a steak dinner.

PIRRO: A steak dinner? Where?

GUTFELD: I don't know, Outback?

PIRRO: Outback?

GUTFELD: That's it for us. "SPECIAL REPORT" is up next. Hey, Bret.

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