Rep. Gaetz speaks out about investigation double standards

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Rep. Gaetz speaks out about investigation double standards

Republican Congressman Gaetz and Democratic strategist Joel Payne weigh in on 'The Ingraham Angle.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," December 7, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

LAURA INGRAHAM, HOST: I have some incredible news to share with the Fox viewers tonight. Welcome to "The Ingraham Angle."

Senator Al Franken is offering a not so funny farewell. The man who was accused of multiple groping and other stuff will resign, but no apologies, no admission of guilt, just accusations. Lashing out, of course, against President Trump and Senate candidate, Roy Moore.

As predicted, Franken was a victim of the P.C. lynch mob. Now there's a backlash against "The Ingraham Angle" for identifying the real cause of his ousting. It was all a cynical political ploy.

And a huge development at the Justice Department, a top official demoted after reportedly, as we thought, coordinating with the law firm pedaling that infamous anti-Trump Russian dossier.

We begin with the fall of the liberal icon comedian, Al Franken, and the "me too" pandemic. That's the focus of tonight's Angle.

Look, Franken really had no choice after most of his Democratic colleagues in the Senate called on him to quit. Listen closely to his statement today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. AL FRANKEN, D-MINN.: Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others, I remember very differently.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Think about that for a moment. He's basically calling members of that "me too" movement liars, but he's unwilling to fight for his reputation. I happen to think this is a bad decision and I pretty much don't agree with him on anything.

And why did his fellow Democrats turn on him so fast and so furiously? As we explained in the ANGLE last night, the Dems did not suddenly become beacons of morality wagging their fingers at everyone else because they're on the moral high ground.

This was a crass political ploy. Democrats dumping Franken overboard because now that they can claim the moral high ground for 2018 and pursue allegations against Donald Trump and Roy Moore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: There's no due process. Zero. You're accused and you're a man, you're done.

NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: This is Venezuela, Cuba. This is every third world Banana Republic. Let's not have due process. Let's not have any questions or a chance for a hearing. Let's just lynch him because when you get done lynching him, we'll be so pure. We'll feel so good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: The new puritanism in the Democratic Party. You wouldn't believe the headlines we got in response. The Washington Post wrote, "Al Franken finds unlikely defenders on Fox News."

The Huffington Post, almost identical, "Meet Al Franken's Republican Defenders." Mediaite, "Laura Ingrahm, Newt Gingrich Defend Franken From Dem Lynch Mob." News flash, we weren't defending Franken. We were defending the notion that one should be considered innocent until proven guilty.

You see, the real story here, what we were warning you about, is this -- it's kind of a P.C. Polgram underway with a nasty political edge to it. They're dropping like flies now. Former Democratic Congressman Harold Ford Jr. was fired today by Morgan Stanley for allegedly several years ago grabbing a woman.

He was trying to take her out to drinks. She didn't like that. Now he's vowing to sue the woman and Morgan Stanley, that it never happened. Congressman Trent Franks, he announced today that he's going to step down rather than endure an investigation for having what he called a discussion of surrogacy with two previous female subordinates. This takes the cake.

Now, look, we need to be careful here, you, myself, everyone, that we don't get so caught up in the white heat of the "me too" movement that lives and careers are destroyed without much evidence and in a flash.

Look, there are credible allegations out there. There's creeps that need to be shown the door. No doubt about it. We also have to be weary of what I call the "me too" flu. The gender opportunists that come out of the wood work with allegations many, many years later because it serves a political or personal end.

Are any of you getting tired of the sudden explosion of moral piety spewing from those who ended up enabling the real abusers by looking the other way because it was politically expedient to do so for years? Me too. That's THE ANGLE.

Joining us now with reaction, attorney and GOP official, Harmeet Dhillon along with Democrat Capri Cafaro, former minority leader in the Ohio State Senate.

Harmeet, let's start with you. I mean, I'm not a fan of Al Franken, he and have clashed a lot politically over the years, and I found him actually personally quite nasty, but I'm getting a little bit worried about where this is all going.

Because the Democrats clearly would not have acted against Al Franken if they had the White House and they had had a decent majority in the Senate. This was so they could tar Trump and go after Roy Moore. I have no doubt in my mind.

HARMEET DHILLON, ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Laura. I agree with your comments yesterday and Newt Gingrich's. I think that Al Franken is a human sacrifice on the altar of 2018 for the Democrats. You know, look at the leader of the pack, Kristin Gillibrand, who last year was campaigning happily with Bill Clinton, sent him thank you tweets and thinks it's all hanky-dory.

When it's expedient to throw the Clintons overboard, which they have done, now they've done that as well. So, I think this whole "me too" movement has been enabled by the fact that the Democrats are no longer held back by the Clinton dynasty.

Because for all these years, everybody knew it was wrong what was happening, yet they couldn't say anything because the leaders of their party were the ones doing the offending and the demeaning and the shaming and the blaming and all of those bad things.

And so, now it's a new day, but I think they're going a little bit overboard here. I'm not sure Al Franken based on his comments today is truly with the program.

INGRAHAM: No. Capri, what are your thoughts on this?

CAPRI CAFARO (D), FORMER OHIO STATE SENATE MINORITY LEADER: Well, look, I mean, I think the entire thing is gross frankly. I mean, I do think that - -

INGRAHAM: What does that mean?

CAFARO: The culture is gross. It's the swamp. It's the swampiest of swamp things. So, number one, I think that Al Franken is not necessarily on board, but I do think that he did this to take one for the proverbial team.

INGRAHAM: But he says he's going to stay -- he's going to keep his voice. What does that mean?

CAFARO: That's a really good question. Here's why because obviously he resigned because the Democrats wanted to make sure that they were, quote/unquote, like --

INGRAHAM: Clean.

CAFARO: -- getting the high ground.

INGRAHAM: The baptismal high ground.

CAFARO: Getting the high ground here in light of the theoretical victory of Roy Moore next week. So, what happens, number one, If Roy Moore loses, that will be very interesting.

INGRAHAM: He's not going to lose.

CAFARO: I don't think so. But at the end of the day, you know, poor Al Franken is trying to salvage his reputation. But what makes me angry is that if people were not called out, Democrats or Republicans --

INGRAHAM: Roy Moore said he didn't do any of this. He's denying it.

CAFARO: Al Franken denied it all, too.

INGRAHAM: Roy Moore is fighting. I didn't endorse him, but Roy Moore is fighting. Franken is quitting. He won't stand up to the Democrat women.

CAFARO: From a Democrat perspective, Democrats and myself included say look, you know, if you believe women, if you believe victims --

INGRAHAM: Can a woman ever tell a tale that is false about a man? Does that ever happen? Because to watch what people are saying about this, all women are saints and all men are sinners.

CAFARO: We need to be careful and we do need due process.

INGRAHAM: But there's no due process.

CAFARO: But there's no due process on either side. It needs to be equitable. The bottom line is it needs to be equitable.

INGRAHAM: This is what I say, Harmeet, a mere allegation. Harold Ford Jr., who I know a little bit, several years ago. I guess, you can't ask someone for a date more than a couple times. That's a violation. You can't -- and the Trent Frank thing, I don't know what to think about that. But I don't even see how that would-be harassment if it's a condition of employment or part of a hostile work environment, which it's not.

(CROSSTALK)

DHILLON: There's a difference between John Conyers that allegedly harassed a member of subordinates. But Al Franken grabbing of the butt cheeks in public --

CAFARO: Which is poor taste.

DHILLON: There's no legally -- you take that case to a DA, they're not going to prosecute that --

INGRAHAM: I mean, George H.W. Bush apparently is getting --

DHILLON: Let's leave that poor man alone.

INGRAHAM: You said be equitable. Let's be equitable.

DHILLON: That is out of control.

INGRAHAM: This is going to backfire on women. I've had so many conversations with men. Everybody is afraid. Everybody is afraid to hire women, travel with women, they're afraid to be alone in offices with women because if it ends up being their word against a woman's word in this climate, they're done. They're done.

DHILLON: You know, Democrats --

INGRAHAM: No matter what.

CAFARO: That is lovely. At the end of the day, it's -- not only is it important to believe women, but at the same time we do need to engage in due process. There is a way to marry those two things.

DHILLON: It's politics. Politics in a different court.

INGRAHAM: So, that's why it's so dangerous. When it becomes -- bad actors should be removed from office.

CAFARO: Period.

INGRAHAM: If you're harassing --

CAFARO: Democrat or Republican.

INGRAHAM: It has nothing to do with politics, but it has taken on the edge of political warfare. That is where it's tedious for people. I'm telling you, it's going to backfire on women. "Time" magazine, the "me too" movement, the person of the year? Well, I wonder what will it be next year?

CAFARO: Let's make sure it's not the flavor of the week. Here's the risk for women. When we cry foul too much, we diminish the real victims.

INGRAHAM: And Ted Kennedy, last time I checked, Republicans and Democrats lionized him when he died. He was a big figure in the Senate.

CAFARO: I have the greatest respect --

INGRAHAM: He was very nice to me personally. I actually liked him personally, but he had his own issues that go way back to the late 60s. Come on. No one's house is clean here.

CAFARO: Nobody's house is clean.

DHILLON: And another thing to bring up 10-year-old allegations.

INGRAHAM: John Lewis says he will not appear at a Mississippi -- I guess it's the Civil Rights Museum event if Donald Trump is present.

DHILLON: It's sad. This man is a bona fide hero of the civil rights movement and now he is throwing his legacy down the drain by refusing to work with a Republican, who is actually improving a lot of African-American people in his state. So, I think it's really unfortunate --

INGRAHAM: The economy is soaring and helping everybody.

CAFARO: He is a civil rights icon. He has the right to protest like every American does. I understand where he's coming from and you know, let him do what he wants to do.

INGRAHAM: Aren't civil rights for everybody? I don't get that. I find that very --

CAFARO: It's easy to have civil rights for everybody unless you were denied them at some point.

INGRAHAM: So, I guess, it's all a litmus test at this point. Ladies -- can I say ladies? Girls --

CAFARO: Brods.

INGRAHAM: Chicks.

Ferocious wild fires are spreading across Southern California including towards a location where Fox's Adam Housley is currently standing by. Adam, very worried about you watching these flames.

ADAM HOUSLEY, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is one of the big fires burning in Southern California. It began Monday night when we had those Santa Ana winds come through here in really low humidity levels.

The good news is the winds have not come back as once feared. Bad news, you still see a number of flanks of this fire, the Thomas fire, burning. You can see threatening home in this area outside of Ventura between Ventura and Ohi, which is basically about an hour or so north and west of Los Angeles.

This fire has chewed up more than 115,000 acres since Monday night and several hundred homes. While this fire burns here in a number of locations and pretty spread out, there's a new fire that started today in San Diego called the Lilac fire. That burned more than 3,000 acres and several homes in San Diego.

But 18,000 people have been evacuated down there because of the conditions. As you can tell, these conditions are still rough and steep and difficult terrain in many cases, and a lot of the cities haven't burned -- the areas around them haven't burned in a long time, including here in Ventura and Santa Barbara County.

So, right now, this is the firefight that firefighters are facing. Obviously, not a lot of air support this time of night. In fact, we haven't seen many helicopters at all. The good news, there's no winds in this area right now at least in this area, and they are hoping it stays that way. But again, the red flag warnings remain here in California until midday on Saturday -- Laura.

INGRAHAM: Adam Housley, thank you so much. Stay safe.

The FBI chief tries to defend the bureau to Congress today. It was wild. It was an onslaught of anti-Trump bias accusations.

Plus, they're at the top of the billboard chart, singing nuns. We are going to introduce you to them. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: The FBI that I see is tens of thousands of agents and analysts and staff working their tails off to keep Americans safe. The FBI that I see is people, decent people, committed to the highest principles of integrity and professionalism and respect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: That was FBI Director Chris Wray responding to the president's assertion that his agency is in, quote, "tatters' following all the bombshell revelations we've been talking about of anti-Trump bias by the bureau's former top investigator, Peter Strozk.

And while that hearing was unfolding, Fox News reported another potential conflict involving an Obama holdover. They're coming out of the wood work. This time at the Justice Department.

Bruce Orr was demoted and stripped of his title, associate deputy attorney general, yesterday morning after the House Intel Committee learned that he met during the 2016 campaign with Christopher Steele, the former British spy that authored the infamous Russian dossier.

Joining us now to discuss is Republican congressman from Florida, Matt Gaetz and Democratic strategist, Joel Payne, who was deputy national press secretary and former senate majority leader, Harry Reid's guy. Great to see you both.

Joel, let's start with you. There are a lot of people working for this investigation that are political adversaries of the president. If the shoe were on the other foot and this was an investigation of Hillary Clinton and the investigation was stacked with anti-Hillary prosecutors, you guys would be going crazy.

We have Peter Strozk in this case who has been sending anti-Trump texts during the debate. He was at every big interview. What are your thoughts on the status of the FBI now after seeing this play out?

JOEL PAYNE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: It's interesting. The shoe has been on the other foot before, right, if we go back about 23 years to Ken Starr and his investigation. You do research, you'll see that actually four of his top five deputies were all Bush, Scalia, Reagan appointee types.

I think Alex Azar who was just appointed President Trump's HHS secretary was fourth in line to Ken Starr and he was a Scalia law clerk. So, my point is, you can't invalidate --

INGRAHAM: I just got -- you cannot equate -- I clerked on the court. A Scalia law clerk? I knew Justice Scalia well. He hired liberals, conservatives, moderates. Hired kids from all different backgrounds as does Justice Thomas.

There's no litmus test there. It's about merit. So, you're saying if someone clerks on the Supreme Court for a judicially conservative justice, that person should be barred from an investigation?

PAYNE: No. What I'm saying --

INGRAHAM: I wouldn't have a problem with that. That's ridiculous.

PAYNE: What I'm saying is that you're asking if the shoe was on the other foot and I'm point out --

INGRAHAM: None of the people -- Alex Azar was -- any of these guys that worked on the Starr hearing, they didn't have the internal conflicts where they were representing the other side. That's the difference.

Congressman, you've been all over this. Representing one party, the White House or the Clinton Foundation and you hop to work for Mueller and you're suddenly investigating the president. That's a nice revolving door.

REP. MATT GAETZ, R-FLA.: Yes, we've had Hillary Clinton's own fan club investigating her. Meanwhile, you have these people that bring their anti-Trump bias to the Mueller investigation. Today, I asked Christopher Wray, did Mueller have a standard where people had to agree to hate the president in order to work for him?

Christopher Wray wouldn't answer that question as to whether or not there was a litmus test where people had to bring anti-Trump bias. Time and again, we see instances. There's more to come. We're going to see time and again other circumstances. You didn't mention Andrew Wiseman that was praising people --

INGRAHAM: Yes, we did that the other night.

GAETZ: Absolutely, who were actively defying the president of the United States.

INGRAHAM: Jim Jordan posed a question today about Peter Strozk to Christopher Wray. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OHIO: Did Peter Strozk help produce and present the application to the FISA court to secure a warrant to spy on Americans associated with the Trump campaign?

WRAY: Congressman, I'm not prepared to discuss anything about a FISA process.

JORDAN: What was presented to the FISA court?

WRAY: I do not believe that I can legally and appropriately share a FISA court submission with this committee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: I'm not sure that is correct.

GAETZ: It's absolutely false.

INGRAHAM: And what the FISA court does is still -- you can still have a check on that. Congress can still check on what the FISA court does. You have an obligation to do that. Who submits an application, that's not any type of confidential or classified information.

GAETZ: We don't want to live in a world where the FBI can use the fact that they have submitted documents to a court as a should to oversight. We didn't get an answer as to whether or not the FBI used taxpayer money to buy this dossier.

Peter Strozk that hated the president was probably the person that packaged this together, brought it to the FISA court and launched this entire false Russia collusion theory in the first place. It's ludicrous. Strozk is at the center of this. If it is, he's the fruit of the poisonous tree.

INGRAHAM: I was going to say that.

PAYNE: The system is working. You want accountability, we have it. We've got checks and balances here. You're finding these things out. We have transparency and sunlight.

INGRAHAM: Why should it be a treasure hunt to find out about Strozk? If I were Mueller and I wanted to really preserve the integrity of the investigation, in the summer when they relieved him of his duties, I would say we found out something disturbing about a member of our team.

We decided to pro-actively relieve him of his duties. They shipped him to H.R., which is kind of an odd place. I wouldn't have put him there. I would have been transparent about it instead of --

PAYNE: By the way --

GAETZ: These are circumstances where we have to have outside watch dog groups and the inspector general come in and expose this double standard.

PAYNE: I'm happy to be on the side of Bob Mueller. He served tours of duty in Vietnam, has a Purple Heart, has served --

INGRAHAM: Why didn't he give me he's resume?

PAYNE: He's somebody of impeccable character.

GAETZ: Who is hiring him?

PAYNE: Is Ken Starr --

INGRAHAM: We're going back to Scalia. That was the worst argument ever.

(CROSSTALK)

PAYNE: So, you have to go back to Ken Starr -- we're going to Whitewater investigation because Ken Starr has multiple --

GAETZ: I don't even this I was alive during the Whitewater investigation.

PAYNE: We barely were. We're both (inaudible).

INGRAHAM: I'm a lawyer and it bugs me that you're trying to make any type of legal equivalency. Ken Starr's team and I know those gentlemen very well, they happen to be -- yes, many of them worked for the Bush Justice Department.

They, however, did not personally represent people that were antagonistic politically to President Clinton. They were not representing one side and then going to work on the other. That's a conflict --

PAYNE: They had political affiliations --

INGRAHAM: Everyone votes. That's ridiculous.

PAYNE: Why would you assume that Bob Mueller --

INGRAHAM: Why? Because we have Bruce Orr at the Justice Department, who has been relieved of his duties because it turns out he was meeting -- we're moving on to why the integrity of the Justice Department is being questioned right now. It's important. That's why Christopher Wray was on Capitol Hill. Bruce Orr, very quickly.

GAETZ: It's ludicrous that Bruce Orr had this type of access and brought this bias to bear. It would be one thing if you had one person that expressed their viewpoint. Time and again, you see circumstances. Orr, Strozk, Jenny Ray, over and over again. People that hate the president investigating him. The double standard is evidence in the fact that Hillary Clinton was investigated by her own fan club.

INGRAHAM: We're out of time. We'll have you back, a short segment. Too short. Gentlemen, by the way, with partisanship raging in government agencies, CNN and MSNBC are questioning Trump's fitness for office over a speech he delivered yesterday.

This will fill your heart with joy. The Dominican Sisters of Mary are hitting the top of the billboard charts with some of the Christmas classics. They're going to join us tonight. Amazing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: President Trump has made a landmark historic decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capitol. But that's of no concern to many in the mainstream media. Instead they're freaking out about whether the president slurred a few words towards the end of his speech, and using it TO, as they have been doing for some time, question his fitness for office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

MIKA BRZEZINSKI, MSNBC: He seemed to like he was almost hanging on to the prompter.

JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC: He's struggling. Look at it.

BRZEZINSKI: There was a struggle happening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE ON MSNBC: We don't have updates on his health. We don't know what is going on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE ON CNN: Donald Trump is not in perfect health.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE ON CNN: There's no reason why that person should have that ability, and we as Americans don't know whether that person has the physical and mental capacity to function correctly.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

INGRAHAM: We should apply that standard to the media at time. But when Hillary Clinton looked woozy and unstable, remember that during the campaign, and even ended up falling at one point, a lot of them sang a different tune.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE ON MSNBC, SEPT. 16, 2016: I want us to be very careful here in the way in which we are reading her health and how that can serve as a proxy for the way in which we're talking about gender.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE ON MSNBC, SEPT. 16, 2016: Today the news media lost its mind. And Hillary Clinton's health became the most important thing in the world.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE ON MSNBC, SEPT. 17, 2016: This idea now of attempting to cast doubt on Hillary Clinton's health, I mean, she uses pillows, which is a dead giveaway that she's at death's door.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

INGRAHAM: The double standard is so patently predictable. But this effort to question the president's mental fitness is getting totally out of hand.

Joining us now, someone who knows what it takes to command, General Wesley Clark is a former Democratic presidential candidate and former supreme allied commander Europe of NATO. And great to see you, general. What do you think about that? President Trump had probably some throat or teeth problem there, obviously, when you watch the video. And we're jumping to - - one day it's his dementia. The next day he's mentally unfit. What are your thoughts?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, FORMER PRESIDENT CANDIDATE: You know, the president's health is a big issue. And it's always been a big issue for presidents.

INGRAHAM: So you think that's fair? He slurs his work because he had some bridge work fell.

CLARK: Ike was president before most people were born here. I remember I was a little kid and he had a heart attack. And he actually had to lay off duties in the Oval Office for a while. And it was a big thing. So there's always been media interest.

INGRAHAM: This is ridiculous. This is ridiculous.

CLARK: It is. It is.

INGRAHAM: He obviously had a dry throat or something, bridge work or something. It happens. It can be embarrassing but it happens.

CLARK: But as you said, it's not a double standard. It's the same standard. It's different --

INGRAHAM: They went crazy. The Democrats and Republican who hated Trump went crazy when anyone raised an issue of Hillary -- Hillary was actually falling into a limousine and disappeared for how long was that? She disappeared for some time. Remember on September 11th? We were not supposed to talk about that. She actually fell, OK? That wasn't the first time.

CLARK: People look at candidate's and president's health.

INGRAHAM: He's going to Bethesda Naval.

CLARK: That say it's no big deal. People that are opposed --

INGRAHAM: But general, he's --

CLARK: Laura, you know what they told me when I ran for office. General Charlie (ph) Legend (ph) said, he was my boss when I was in the military, Charlie (ph) said, he said I would support you, he said, but why would you want this job? He said before you run, people will try to keep you from taking it. When you have the job, people try to keep you from doing the job. And after you've had the job, you spend the rest of your life defending yourself. So everybody understands it's highly partisan. It's always been that way in American history. From George Washington, Andrew Jackson --

INGRAHAM: But the left is in a meltdown over Trump. General, this is what's happening. The American economy is soaring. You know it, I know it. People are more optimistic. Retail is soaring. We're reestablishing and reasserting ourselves as focusing on America first. We're still working with other countries. We're redoing some of these trade deals. Things are looking up. And so the Democrats have to go to identity politics, Trump's mental, Mueller investigation. Identity politics, Trump's mental, Mueller investigation, that's your party. Are you proud of that party? That's the party.

CLARK: I'm basically a military guy, Laura. I did run for president.

INGRAHAM: You could have run as a Republican. I don't even know why you're a Democrat.

CLARK: Here's the thing, when I talk to Democrat -- and I am a Democrat because that's where I'm registered. And when I talk to Democrats, they say they can hardly wait to run on the tax bill as it's emerging. So they have the tax bill, they've got healthcare, they have education. But as an American, how do I feel about it? I'm really glad to see the economy doing well. I'm glad to see low unemployment.

INGRAHAM: Who is responsible for that? Can Trump get any credit?

CLARK: I think Donald Trump gets some credit for the atmosphere. I think Barack Obama gets some credit. I think George Bush and Hank Paulson get some credit --

INGRAHAM: George Bush?

CLARK: Yes. George W. Bush.

INGRAHAM: Gets credit for the economy?

CLARK: When it was falling apart in the fall of 2008, in the middle of that presidential election, he blew the whistle. And he got his treasury secretary, Hank Paulson and did something.

INGRAHAM: Are we stronger -- when you were in NATO, compared to the -- you were in NATO till today. America was richer back then. We were more powerful as a nation because we were less in debt. China was not as powerful and not as strong.

So you fast forward 20 years to today. America is $20 trillion in debt, China is on the rise all over the globe. ISIS is still out there. The establishment lost hold of this whole thing. That's why Donald Trump was elected. If things were riding high, the economy was going great and Donald Trump wouldn't have been a factor. But he's a factor because the establishment never held up a mirror to themselves and saw that they traded our manufacturing away, they didn't take care of their people first. Donald Trump said look, I'm not a politician. That's what I'm going to try to do.

CLARK: It's the way democracy works. When people think things are not going right, they want a change. We can go back and we can dispute about exactly what happened. If I go back and look at it, I look at it like how come we had all of those tax cuts in 2001, 2003? Because, let me finish, George W. Bush as president said I'm giving you back your money. He did, but he did it in the middle of a war. And so we spent a lot of money --

INGRAHAM: Tax cuts happened before 9-11, remember?

CLARK: 2001 and 2003, two tax cuts.

INGRAHAM: You want the government to take more of our money?

CLARK: I want responsible, fiscally responsible, smart government.

INGRAHAM: You're not going to get me to defend much about Bush but that's a good thing he did.

CLARK: And talk about the war. The war in Iraq was a mistake.

INGRAHAM: No kidding. You were for it.

CLARK: I was not for the war in Iraq.

INGRAHAM: You want me to go through the quotes. You said you probably would have voted for it. Do I have to pull up my research?

CLARK: I ran for president because the war was not going well.

INGRAHAM: "At the time I probably would have voted for it but I think that's too simple a question."

CLARK: It is.

INGRAHAM: Did you say that or not, general?

CLARK: You know why, I would have voted for it --

INGRAHAM: Point made. You would have voted for it.

CLARK: No, no. That's not the point.

INGRAHAM: We're not re-litigating your presidential campaign. It's boring.

CLARK: You have to give me a chance to answer, Laura. So you can vote for the president to have authority to give him greater negotiating leverage.

INGRAHAM: I got it.

CLARK: That's what it was about. It was about diplomacy. Not going to war. --

INGRAHAM: You and I agree. You and I agree on the war. We shouldn't have gone in. I was for it in the beginning. Ambassador to Israel, Obama's ambassador to Israel mocked the heavy breathing coming from the critics of the move. Whose side are you on this? Was it a good idea for Trump to do what he did or not? Real quick.

CLARK: It reflects domestic policy and domestic politics for Donald Trump. So it's a good idea for him politically. And a lot of foreign policy is derived from your political base. So it's sort of a natural move. The question is now, having sort of shaken up the region, can you take advantage of the shakeup? So I say three things have to be done.

INGRAHAM: OK, quickly.

CLARK: Number one is the Saudis have to displace the Iranians and the support of Hamas and de-legitimate Iran as the big projector of Islam. Number two is the Bibi needs to say that no more settlements until we get the peace agreement, and number three, Donald Trump needs, after these other two, he need to say, by the way the Palestinians can have their capital there also.

INGRAHAM: I think he's going to have more success than your former boss. General, it's great to see you.

And by the way, you're not going to believe what a comedian is blaming was President Trump for now. That's coming up. And a lot more fires sweeping through California. And why does the Pope want to change the "Our Father." What? That's happening coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: Chelsea Handler may need an intervention. Now she claims Trump is responsible for natural disasters. I think that was her show. Wasn't that the natural disaster? And the Pope wants to change the words of the "Our Father." What? We're joined by "New York Times" bestselling author of the "Will Wilder" series, EWTN lead anchor Raymond Arroyo. Raymond, I'm a huge fan of Chelsea Handler.

RAYMOND ARROYO, MANAGING EDITOR, EWTN NEWS: Yes.

INGRAHAM: She's a complete whack job. What is she saying?

ARROYO: She has a tweet that she sent out during the fires. Imagine, fires are encroaching on your house. People are evacuating. She tweets out, "Just evacuated any house. It's like Donald Trump is setting the world on fire literally and figuratively. Stay safe, everyone. Dark times." You know, he should be Chelsea Handler her lightly because something a little off base I think. To worry about politics when your house is about to go up in flames, we've had friends who have lost their homes in Bel Air and in Ventura. Why would you be focused on political disagreement when a tragedy like this is closing in on people? The woman is obsessed. Something is wrong, and you see why Netflix cancelled her show.

INGRAHAM: It's an obsession they have with hating Trump. This is all they can do. They're not funny. They're not particularly smart. She doesn't understand the word "literally" or what it means apparently because that would mean he was literally lighting the fires.

ARROYO: Right, figurative and literally. So he's an arsonist.

INGRAHAM: So she's a complete goof ball.

ARROYO: Her next backdrop should be a rubber room for the new political show she's doing.

INGRAHAM: Oh, no, no.

Now, the Pope, what is happening with the "Our Father"? Just when I learned -- I just learned the "Our Father." No. Just when I learned all the readings and the liturgy, the benedict changed, now the Pope, what is going on. They're all, it's a change-aroo.

ARROYO: The Pope in an interview --

INGRAHAM: Do I have to go to confession after that?

ARROYO: No you don't. You're OK. I'll absolve you here. He said "lead us not into temptation" is a little problematic. He thinks that's a bad translation.

INGRAHAM: Lead us not into temptation?

ARROYO: Because you're asking God to not lead you into temptation, and the Pope's take is God doesn't lead us into temptation. But in fact, God does permit temptation. He does. To test us, to try us, whether it's the saints, Jesus, whoever. So -- but he thinks that construction is wrong. He pointed to the French. The French changed it a little bit. They say, hold on, I'll get this right, do not let us fall into temptation. So the onus and the emphasis is on you rather than God leading you.

INGRAHAM: Melania, Melania versus Michelle.

ARROYO: We're already on Melania.

INGRAHAM: Melania. The Pope lost me. He's losing me on this translation. That didn't work at all.

Let's go to the Melania versus Michelle. The left will do anything to prop up Michelle Obama. She looks at a store window and they say the economy is like growing because Michelle looked at a store window. Meanwhile Melania is the most incredible, awesome person. She's funny, she's humble, she's really smart, and all they do is try to take it away from her. I don't like that.

ARROYO: There's a new poll. And I read this headline. You will love this headline. It says "Still not as popular as Michelle Obama," Melania in a new poll. She's like one point beneath her in popularity. My problem is this. We know, Michelle Obama is the Beyonce of politics.

INGRAHAM: Look at that poll, 53 to 35.

ARROYO: It's so close. But that's the unfavorable.

INGRAHAM: Favorable/unfavorable. That's not helpful.

ARROYO: Michelle Obama only has her by two points. Here's the problem. Why are we making first ladies compete with each other over this? Why are we politicizing two figures --

INGRAHAM: Because they hate the Trumps. Anybody who supports Trump, and Melania is incredible and they can't stand that.

ARROYO: Let me tell you, all that matters to the American taxpayer, Michelle Obama had 24 people costing $1 million. Melania has four people working for us, costing us $487,000. You tell me who you like better.

INGRAHAM: I like Melania better. Raymond Arroyo --

ARROYO: I like them both.

INGRAHAM: I like them both.

Well, do we need a little Christmas or what? You bet. A group of nuns whose CD is dominating the billboard classical charts join us. We need that after this segment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: The billboard music charts are usually dominated by people like Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber. But this Christmas season an unexpected group is making a big impression by doing this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Anyone can do that. No. They're the Dominican Sisters of Mary from Ann Arbor, Michigan, and they are burning up billboards, classical and holiday charts right now. The new album is "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring, Christmas with the Dominican Sisters of Mary." And joining us in the studio are two of the group's members, Sister Joseph Andrew Bogdanowicz and Sister Peter Thomas. Boy, this is great. We needed you here. We needed you here after this segment. We were just criticizing the Pope. No. Let's start with you, Sister Joseph Andrew. People are I know watching saying why are Sister Joseph. Why is it a man's name? You pick saint names and you go with that?

SISTER JOSEPH ANDREW BOGDANOWICZ, O.P. FOUNDRESS, DOMINICAN SISTERS OF MARY: We do. We do. And I have sister who is also a sister. Her name is Sister Mary Teresa, and Teresa is my mother's name, and Andrew is my father's name. So we've got it covered.

INGRAHAM: OK. How did this album come about?

BOGDANOWICZ: It came about because so many people asked to us to put out a Christmas CD. So it's our third CD, but everybody really wanted a Christmas one. So we finally said OK, we'll do it.

INGRAHAM: Sister Peter Thomas, when did you start singing?

SISTER PETER THOMAS, O.P. FOUNDRESS, DOMINICAN SISTERS OF MARY: I grew up singing while doing chores around the house. But it's really been -- it wasn't something I did in a serious way. So to get to do it all the time in our life as sisters is part of our prayer life, and this is just bonus that we sing together in a different setting. It's a great gift.

INGRAHAM: So many people watching this now, angelic, the sounds are angelic. The sound itself, the blend of the melody, of the harmonies is so beautiful. When did you know that you had this? You sing and pray and sing together. But when did you know you had that magical sound?

BOGDANOWICZ: We have a lot of musical talent. And we used it a great deal in the community. It's part of our prayer life. And so it flows out. So everything that we sing really is a prayer. And so the sisters just break into harmonies and we just have fun.

INGRAHAM: Now when you want to hang back and like you're not doing the prayer life thing, what are you singing? Heavy metal?

(LAUGHTER)

INGRAHAM: Molly Hatchet?

THOMAS: These songs at a very upbeat pace.

INGRAHAM: OK. Your mother superior, Mother Assumpta, who is amazing, she -- there's a wonderful A.P. feature that just came out about this recording. And she said it's -- the music is like about beauty in general. The sound is beautiful. And when you hear beautiful music, it does something to your soul.

BOGDANOWICZ: It's true. It's so freeing an it's so uplifting and so peaceful. It's like how do we find peace in the world today? Music is a beautiful outlet. Pope John Paul II would say that, the good, the true the beautiful are like a magnet in our hearts. We all have to respond. You just can't not. You have to.

INGRAHAM: There's something about seeing music live, too. I think a lot of people like to see music live and touches you in a different way. Sister Peter Thomas, what do you pray for daily basis? What's your big go- to?

THOMAS: There's so many intentions in our world today. But I think first, we have to be saints. We're each called to respond to God's love. So the first thing I pray for is God help me become who you want me to be. But there's so many intentions in the world, so many needs, and every one of the people in the world who has those needs has a place in our prayers as a community.

INGRAHAM: Sister Joseph Andrew, what do you pray for?

BOGDANOWICZ: We really do represent the church when we pray. We have individual intentions and personal intentions, but I'm very much aware that I should be imaging Mary in the world today, and especially at Christmas when she is carrying Christ, joy.

INGRAHAM: Congratulations on this album and thank you for being here. And thank you for your witness. It's beautiful.

BOGDANOWICZ: Thank you.

INGRAHAM: And I love the habited nun. Sorry, but that's my favorite. Is it bad to say that? It probably is. Stay right there. I might sing a little bit with you when we come back. Let's do it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: Now, the nuns are here. They are praying for you, and you should be grateful for that. They are amazing people.

Reminder, if you can, I'll pray for it, pick up a copy of my book "Billionaire at the Barricades: The Populist Revolution from Reagan to Trump." It makes a great Christmas gift, and I say Christmas.

And that's all the time we have this evening. Shannon Bream is up next.

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