'MediaBuzz' on mainstream media already moving on from Biden's Afghanistan withdrawal

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Media moving on from the war?

MSNBC focuses on Madison Cawthorn

This is a rush transcript from "MediaBuzz," September 5, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST (on camera): If there is a media consensus beyond the debate of whether our military should have stayed in Afghanistan for 20 years or gotten out much sooner, it's that the chaotic withdrawal was badly botched, that the terrorist murder of 13 service members was an atrocity, and that no Americans should have been left behind.

So it's rather stunning to watch President Biden in a highly emotional speech after the last U.S. plane that left Kabul say these words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Extraordinary success of this mission was due to the incredible skill, bravely and selfless courage of the United States military and our diplomats and intelligence professionals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera): Now, of course, we all praise the bravery of our troops and diplomats but extraordinary success. That phrase alone brought the president plenty of media criticism. Yes, Biden inherited a war we are already losing. Yes, the Pentagon did good work in evacuating 122,000 Americans and Afghan allies. But we haven't heard the president, defense secretary, secretary of state acknowledged a single thing wrong, and that has fueled the negative press.

There is an emerging media debate about whether the U.S. should be propping up weak regimes and civil wars. Remember, it was Donald Trump who signed the withdrawal agreement, but also an attempt by pro-Biden pundits to conflate the decision to leave Afghanistan with the awful execution that the whole world has witnessed. And this broader debate is so important that it's our job to lift it above petty partisanship.

I'm Howard Kurtz and this is MEDIA BUZZ.

Ahead, my interview with Larry Elder, the California radio host who has got a shot at becoming governor in next week's recall election. As media hawks and hardliners say it would have been better to leave some military contingent in Afghanistan indefinitely, President Biden used his televised speech to reject those views.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: So when I hear that we could have, should have continued the so- called low grade effort in Afghanistan, at low risk to our service members, at low cost, I don't think enough people understand how much we have asked of the one percent of this country who put that uniform on.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But there was so little sense of humility about the fact that the U.S. invaded this country 20 years ago and the toll that has taken and the lives that have been lost not just on the U.S. but also on the Afghan side.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Joe Biden thought that he would wipe away the national disgrace of his Afghan withdrawal by addressing the nation with an angry and hectoring tone today.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: There are a lot of veterans who are looking at this and they're sick to their stomach. I think the idea of saying how successful this -- we're polishing a turd.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: It was not until this president took office, President Biden, he didn't just say he was going to end it, he didn't just say it ought to end, he finally determined that he would get it done.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Instead of stopping the Taliban and stopping a withdrawal and protecting our interest, Joe Biden was only worried about optics, projecting a different picture. This is a disgrace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera): Joining us now to analyze the coverage in New York, Alex Wilkes, the lawyer and analyst formerly with America Rising and here in Washington, Juan Williams, Fox News political analyst and former co-host of "The Five."

Alexandra, when President Biden calls the Afghan mission an extraordinary success, conservative pundits say, that's absurd. But more liberal pundits are saying he's right, it was an incredible mass evacuation, but that's hardly the whole story.

ALEXANDRA WILKES, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yeah. Look, I think that the president's speech was an attempt to put a bow on what's really an indefensible situation. But that's exactly what the White House is guiding reporters and guiding, you know, liberal columnist, allies towards the success of the air lift.

But I think, you know, many people are asking, why was there the need for that air lift to begin with, and that just seems to be evading the White House's grasp here. They keep kind of going back to the reasons for getting out of Afghanistan, which people had largely agreed with. They keep going back to the need to end the war.

But everybody agrees that this was done poorly. I think that their attempt to focus on the air lift is a way of distracting people away from what was a situation that was unfolding before our very eyes that was clearly going very poorly.

KURTZ: Right. We all have seen the images. Juan, what bothered many media people on the right, as I said at the top, was the fact that the president and his top national security officials didn't admit that anything had gone wrong, everything went as well as it possibly could, nobody could have predicted the Afghan collapse and all that. Why can't commentators on your side admit that much of this was horribly handled?

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think that the key point is that they got out of the war and obviously most Americans agree with that, liberal and conservative. So we're talking then about the withdrawal. I think that there has been lots of dissent there.

Now, you can say, you know, there is a divide between left and right, Howie, but I think you watch any channel in America, no matter their orientation, and there's much coverage, almost saturation coverage of the foreign policy implications, the potential for future terrorist attacks as a result of the withdrawal, discussion about the sacrifices that were made by the military over a 20-year forever period.

So, all of that is going on. And then, of course, the 13 Americans who sacrificed their lives in the course of the withdrawal grew tremendous attention on left and right. So, in my opinion, we have had an ongoing discussion here about the consequences of all of the president's actions.

KURTZ: Well, until now, we'll get to that in the next second. Now, Alex, we don't know how Donald Trump would have handled the execution of the withdrawal if he were still in office. But a lot of conservative media people didn't criticize Trump for making the deal with the Taliban, releasing 5,000 Taliban prisoners, and just say that everything involved in this is Joe Biden's fault.

WILKES: I thought it was interesting that the president re-emerged in a big way on the media sides of things, giving several interviews about what he would have done differently, sort of a departure from what we've seen from ex-presidents in the past.

But a very interesting one, I think one that was newsworthy and people were interested in hearing about his perspective on this, when he was giving his side of the story in terms of what he would have done and what the implications were.

So I thought that round of media interviews was really interesting. I think probably since his social media exile in the winter was probably the most prominent we've seen him in the news in terms of being a foil to the Biden administration in a serious way.

KURTZ: Yeah, as you would expect but, of course, he was part of the process. And Juan, too many in the media, I think, as I said, are conflating two things. I think you started down this road as well. The disaster of a chaotic withdrawal that led to the horrible suicide bombing, among other problems, and the decision to withdraw, which you're right, new "Washington Post"/ABC poll says 77 percent of Americans agree with Biden's decision to get out of the 20-year war and which Donald Trump agreed with as well. But they're two separate things.

WILLIAMS: In my mind, there was never going to be an easy exit from Afghanistan. Just ask the Russians, ask the British, ask anybody. And of course, we couldn't have anticipated what happened with the Afghan government. And, again, to my mind, the United States, you know, it did not go well.

But we put so much money into the afghan government, into training the Afghan military police, to literally arming them. So, yes, you're right, you can say it is two separate items, withdrawing from the war and how it was done. But in my mind, you can't guarantee anything in a military operation.

And I would be critical I especially have great heart for those who lost their lives, our service people who put themselves on the line first. But I got to say that it is a difficult task. I don't think you could have said it could be done easily or with some precision that would have prevented any problems. I just think it was a catastrophic situation, once the government and the military on the Afghan side collapsed so rapidly.

KURTZ: Right. But there were a lot of predictions. Nobody thought it was going to happen in 11 days. But there were a lot of predictions that the government and military would collapse quickly. There is a lot of self- dilution going on or perhaps misleading of the public.

By the way, 60 percent in that same "Washington Post"/ABC poll disapproved of Biden's handling of Afghanistan as opposed to the more than three quarters who liked the decision.

Alex, there is one thing that's unspinnable, really just unspinnable at the media, and that is the Biden administration did leave, despite its promises, at least couple of hundred Americans behind and tens of thousands of Afghan allies who risked their lives to help us during the war.

WILKES: I mean this is completely unspinnable by the White House. And I think that there was an attempt to do a lot of acrobatic wordplay at the press podium and an attempt for them to try to get their way out of this situation by sort of picking apart Peter Doocy's word, stranded. That was sort of hotly debated there. But in the end, we saw that Americans were left behind.

KURTZ: They feel stranded now.

WILKES: There is no way to get out of that.

KURTZ (on camera): Yeah. You know, Juan, the press has been focusing on a couple of these really heartbreaking stories that makes it more than just abstract. For example, "The Wall Street Journal" reporting that an Afghan interpreter who had helped rescue Senator Biden when his helicopter and a couple other senators was forced down in Afghanistan because of bad weather, and he's now asking the president to save him. White House Chief of Staff Ron Klein says they are going to try to do that.

And then there is this woman who was interviewed by "Voice of America." She is 24 years old, she is from California, she is newly-married, she is pregnant, and she can't get out or she's worried about not getting out. Here's what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NASRIA, AMERICAN TRAPPED IN AFGHANISTAN: I think to myself, I think am I going to make it home, am I going to end up living here, am I going to end up dying here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera): And that woman said that she had a valid passport, she couldn't get through the Taliban lines. In fact, she was shot at when she tried to get out. And clearly this is part of the story as well. Would you agree?

WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think it is part of the story. But again, I don't think we should get lost into this very emotional story and lose sight of the bigger picture. Clearly, as you were saying earlier, this has been going on for some time, the idea that, you know, former President Trump said get out in May. President Biden delayed it until August.

Why people decided that they could wait until the last moment or whatever? I think at some point, despite U.S. reaching out, telegrams, e-mails, telephone, people who were delaying, and I think they got caught. Do I therefore blame the American media or the president or the American military? At some point, you say they got out 100 plus thousand people. That's an incredible success, Howie.

KURTZ: But, of course, they had to do it in a hurry. I don't want to obscure the bigger picture. There are a lot of questions about several administrations and this travesty of a 20-year war.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

KURTZ: But I think the woman that we just heard from, she is an important part of the picture as well. My heart went out to her and her family.

WILLIAMS: She was --

KURTZ: I know you would agree with that.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KURTZ: Let me make a quick last point and that is --

WILLIAMS: Yes, I do. I just want to say, if she was family, I would be in crisis over getting her out.

KURTZ: Exactly.

WILLIAMS: But that's not to say that she and other Americans and Afghan allies couldn't have made an earlier effort. They have some responsibility.

KURTZ: She tried to get to the airport, according to her account, and was shot at by the Taliban. I do want to just quickly close this segment by saying that much of the press, including veterans who I respect, who covered wars. Jennifer Griffin, Richard Engel, Clarissa Ward at CNN were very tough on Biden administration improperly so.

All right, when we come back, are most of the media already moving on from the Afghanistan disaster? And later, Larry Elder on why the presss is ganging up on him in the California recall.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ (on camera): It was literally one hour after President Biden delivered an emotional speech defending his Afghanistan pullout that the first of several MSNBC hosts decided another story was more important, so important they made it the lead story during their hours.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: You can imagine the alarm we felt when we heard about this on Sunday, from Congressman Madison Cawthorn.

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: So Cawthorn, let us just reiterate, he's not just some guy. He's an embarrassing, creepy, tree-punching but sitting member of Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera): Here is what the freshman Republican lawmaker from North Carolina, Madison Cawthorn, said at an event the previous weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MADISON CAWTHORN (R-NC) If our election systems continue to be rigged and continue to be stolen, it's going to lead to one place, and it's bloodshed.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): That's right.

CAWTHORN: And I will tell you, as much as I am willing to defend our liberty at all cost, there's nothing and I dread doing more than having to pick up arms against a fellow American.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera): Alex Wilkes, is what Madison Cawthorn, a freshman with no claw (ph) on the Hill, said so important that it immediately replaces the Afghanistan defeat as the lead story?

WILKES: Certainly not. The Afghanistan story should have been the lead of the day. I think that there was an initial focus on it by the media for two reasons. One, you have a lot of the people actually who are sitting in the anchor chairs now who are the war-time correspondents two decades ago, so they have a personal interest in it.

And the second reason is that the images that were coming out of Afghanistan are just so stark and they are just so, you know, plain to anybody seeing them, that it's a disastrous situation that was created by the Biden administration --

KURTZ: Right.

WILKES: -- that just couldn't be hidden. Now, I think that we have enough of the legacy media that has long protected the Biden administration, that has long tried to sort of --

KURTZ: Mm-hmm.

WILKES: -- shepherd them along that they're anxious to move the story along, particularly now --

KURTZ: That's the question.

WILKES: -- as the camera crews have left.

KURTZ: All right. Let me get Juan in here. So look, the comments by Cawthorn were a legitimate story. You can feel free to weigh in on that. But I wrote a column just a few days ago saying that the political fallout from Afghanistan would ease for President Biden when the media perhaps moved on from the story in a month, or I said three months. Never imagined it would take one hour at certain places.

WILLIAMS: I don't think -- I think that story goes on. As I said earlier in the show, I think the controversy over the withdrawal, the deaths of American service people, and the humanitarian sacrifice involved and the immigration even of, you know, bringing Afghans to the United States, that controversy goes on. So I don't think it's gone away.

And to my mind, the comments like those by the congressman really are damaging. Again, they fit in and they do fly around, especially the conservative echo chamber, and influence the way Americans think without saying, hey, wait, this is an extremist sentiment that really has no grounding.

In fact, it's not reality. But it's said in a way, bloodshed, it would make you think that this is something that's putting us as the American people at greater risk. It's just not -- it should not be allowed to pass without comment. I tell you something else, though. I think --

KURTZ: Let me jump in. Let me jump in and I will let you come back to your point.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KURTZ: Look, Cawthorn's spokesman said he was no way advocating violence. But I think you're missing the fact that this is already starting to fade. Alex, by the following night, the day after President Biden's speech on the withdrawal, there was no mention of the war on MSNBC on the 5:00 show, the 6:00 show, the 7:00 show, the 8:00 show, the 9:00 show, maybe one passing reference.

Is there an attempt now, maybe also because there's less public interest when U.S. service people are out of that country, to memory hole this 20- year war?

WILLIAMS: No, I don't think it's possible --

WILKES: Sure. I think --

KURTZ: That was for Alex. I will come back to you, Juan.

WILKES: Well, I think that the fact that we don't have reliable coverage coming out of the country itself, I think that's a major factor. I think what drew so many people into this story were the harrowing images that we saw coming out of Afghanistan. I think now that that's a missing part of the equation, it's easier for the legacy media, like I said, that is anxious to move this story along. It's easier for them to sweep it under the rug.

KURTZ: Here is an example, Juan. Just the other day, Secretary of State Tony Blinken held a news conference that dealt almost entirely with Americans who have been left behind and efforts by the administration to somehow get them out.

Fox News carried it live. CNN and MSNBC did not. Fox News carried the Biden administration briefing live. Now, other important stories have emerged. The massive northeast flooding, the Texas abortion law which we are going to talk about, but the war in some places has just kind of ceased to exist.

WILLIAMS: I don't -- again, I don't think so, but I was going to make the point you just made, Howie, which is that we've been dealing here in the United States with tremendous crisis in terms of the impact of this flooding and storms and, of course, the continued rise of COVID that has slowed or delayed our, you know, get back to work in person. So I think there are other stories. Remember, media is about ratings. That's kind of the urgent story.

To pick up on something that Alex was saying a moment ago, though, we don't have the cameras, the kind of coverage inside. We don't have Americans on the ground there. So, again, in terms of the American audience, they may feel like they have heard this story, they know this story, they're involved in the controversy, and it would just be, you know, at that point, just kind of putting too much on the cake.

KURTZ: Right.

WILLIAMS: The other point I want to make to you is I think there are lots of these generals on TV who shouldn't -- who were involved with this forever war but they're not -- they're allowed to just make comments and criticize everything as if they had not been a part of it.

KURTZ: There obviously -- there should be coverage and they were part of the story and they should be questioned. All right, I got to go. Juan Williams, Alex Wilkes, thanks so much.

Up next, an eruption of critical coverage as the Supreme Court declined to block a highly restrictive Texas abortion law, and Mike Huckabee joins us later on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ (on camera): A divided Supreme Court voted against blocking a new Texas abortion law, which seeks to ban the procedure after about six weeks of pregnancy. There was an explosion of criticism and a parade of pro- choice anchors and guests on CNN and MSNBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MADDOW: If you ever wondered where you would be and what you would be doing and what it would be like for you when Roe versus Wade came to an end in America and abortion started to be banned in America.

LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: This is the single most insane law written about abortion in the Republicans' decades-long quest to overrule and circumvent Roe versus Wade.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: So, how is it an attack on women to ban abortion in Texas? MSNBC, they are not even trying to explain. They just want you to know that if you're for this law in Texas, you're the Taliban.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera): That was an actual example. Joining us now is Mike Emanuel, Fox's chief Washington correspondent. Fox News has had relatively little coverage of this emergency ruling. Mike, does the highly critical media coverage reflect the fierce dissent by liberal justices, plus John Roberts, democratic criticism or that most journalists aren't comfortable with the idea of banning abortion after six weeks?

MIKE EMANUEL, FOX NEWS CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Howie. My sense is it reflects the inherent bias in the media, typically more left- leaning media. And all of a sudden, you look at this abortion law and say, oh, abortion after six weeks could be over in the state of Texas, and then all of a sudden it's an opportunity to kind of go on offense if you're from that political perspective to say, look, they're taking away your rights.

There are a lot of conservatives who are very pro-life who don't think this law is terribly serious in Texas. But nevertheless, it's out there and one day we expect that the Supreme Court may act on it. But for now, the Supreme Court let it go because it is an unusual law.

KURTZ (on camera): This was not a ruling on the constitutional merits. We will come back to that. I want to ask you about President Biden who put out a very strong statement against the Texas law but doesn't seem anxious to talk about it on camera. In fact, he gave a relatively brief response when asked about it by a reporter. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The most pernicious thing about the Texas law, it sort of creates a vigilante system where people get rewards to go out -- anyway. And it just seems -- I know this sounds ridiculous. It is almost un-American.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera): Given his long-time pro-choice stance, why does the press seem to want to talk about this more than the president?

EMANUEL: Fascinating. Great question. In fact, you look at the news over the past week or so and it has just been a barrage of bad headlines from Hurricane Ida to the Afghanistan drawdown to the weak jobs report late this week. You would think the president would pivot and jump onto this with great offense to try to fire up his base, but he was rather subdued about it.

And you look at the wave of headlines that have kind of been difficult for this administration, one would have thought that they would have gone full- force with this --

KURTZ: Yeah.

EMANUEL: -- to animate their base.

KURTZ: Biden made a point of saying he respects those who disagree with Roe v. Wade. Now, you alluded to this. "The Wall Street Journal" conservative editorial page is calling this Texas law a blunder that would open the door to blue states enacting similar law.

The controversial thing here, as you know, is that anybody can sue people involved in providing an abortion, not the woman, and if they prevail, get $10,000. You know, critics are calling it a bounty. So this isn't getting universal applaud from the right.

EMANUEL: Mm-hmm, absolutely not. And basically, "The Wall Street Journal" editorial page making it sound like this was unforced error, giving Democrats some ammunition when they seem to be down and out.

And so a lot of people think this Mississippi law that is going to come up before the Supreme Court this fall is a lot more serious. Fifteen weeks kind of standard enforcement, this Texas law deputizes people to sue people for abortion, and so a lot of folks don't think it will hold up if court, Howie.

KURTZ: Yeah. So we will see, you know, what the ruling is when we are actually having full arguments and all of that. This was an emergency move but the lack of intervention by SCOTUS has brought a lot of criticism, as you know.

All right, Mike Emanuel, always good to see you.

EMANUEL: Thank you, sir.

KURTZ: Next on MEDIA BUZZ, Larry Elder once seemed a long shot to replace California Governor Gavin Newsom. But now, he has a shot and the national media are pummeling the radio host. Our interview in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ (on camera): Larry Elder, the veteran talk radio host in L.A., is the leading Republican candidate in California's gubernatorial recall, meaning he is poised to win if a majority vote nine days from now to dump Democratic incumbent Gavin Newsom.

The national press is suddenly filled with warnings about Elder's candidacy. Talk about piling on. In the Los Angeles Times alone these pieces, Larry Elder talks a lot, too bad you can't believe anything he says. If Larry Elder is elected life will get harder for black and Latino Californians.

And this full-frontal attack, Larry Elder is the black face of white supremacy, you've been warned. I spoke with the GOP frontrunner from San Diego.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KURTZ: Larry Elder, welcome.

LARRY ELDER (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATIONAL CANDIDATE: Howard, thank you so much for having me. I think the only thing I've not been called is attempting to reenact slavery.

KURTZ: Well, the --

ELDER: Just the last week or so.

KURTZ: OK. Well, the L.A. Times obviously not a fan of yours as a black conservative, but much of the national media are running these pieces saying, hey, this is troubling, Larry Elder could win this thing. Why do you think the press is being so tough on you?

ELDER: I think it's because the press oftentimes serves as a public relation bureau for the Democrat Party and they're deathly afraid that Larry Elder, a black guy from the hood who went to public school might break the stranglehold that the Democrats have had on black and brown voters here in California. And if that can be done in California, it can be done all over the country and they are scared to death had.

KURTZ: Well, aren't some of the things you said over the years on the radio where you're paid to be provocative, whether it's opposing the minimum wage, or calling global warming a crock. Fair game for the press now that you want to run in the state of the California?

ELDER: Well, I never said global warming is a crock. I said global warming alarmism is a crock. But Howard, I've been campaigning now for five weeks. I've been a politician now for five weeks. No one has asked me about any of those things. They asked about the rise in crime, they asked me about the way this governor shut down the state in a more severe way than did the other 49 governors.

A third of all small businesses are now gone forever, only half the jobs have been recovered as opposed to two thirds the national average, the rise in the cost of living. The average price of a home in California just hit $800,000, that's a 150 percent more or 250 percent more depending upon on which study you read above the national average.

I'm asked about the decline in the quality of public education. Eighty percent of the kids educated in California are black and brown. I only mention the race, Howie, because the left pride itself on caring about black and brown students.

KURTZ: You're saying voters are asking you this as opposed to journalists. But Governor Gavin Newsom as you know --

(CROSSTALK)

ELDER: That's right. That's what voters care about.

KURTZ: -- training much of his fire on you. The other day he posted a CNN interview in which you said I don't believe the science suggest that young people should be vaccinated. Newsom then tweeted this, Elder is spewing anti-vaccine lies, he's willing to let young people die. Your response.

ELDER: Yes. If Elder become governor, people are going to drop dead in the streets. I'm not anti-vax despite what this ad says. I've been vaccinated because I'm in a high-risk category. And I urge people who are in categories that are high risk to be vaccinated.

But I don't believe the science does compel children to be vaccinated. They're not likely to contract the coronavirus, they're not likely to get really sick, they're not likely to go to hospital and they're certainly not likely to die.

I believe that's consistent with the science of people like Dr. Marty Makary from Johns Hopkins and Scott Atlas from Hoover. I think that's consistent. But the point is he's trying to turn it into a referendum against scare.

Because he can't defend his record on crime, he can't defend his record on homelessness, he can't defend his record on the rise of cost of living. He can't explain why people are leaving California for the first time in our state's 170-year history.

KURTZ: All right, let me jump in here. I want to give you a chance to respond to a Politico story that's gotten a lot of play, quoting as you know your former girlfriend as saying "six years ago you waved a gun at her, she was terrified and she broke up with you. She recently filed a police report but the cops are not pursuing the case." Did that happen?

ELDER: Of course, it didn't happen. I never wave a firearm, loaded or unloaded at anybody else. And you know, Howie, what I find interesting about that story is the lead person on that story, the lead outlet on that story is CNN. This is a company that got Chris Cuomo there, sitting up there, having advised his brother to deny forcefully the sexual harassment claims.

The CEO of CNN, Jeff Zucker, with Goombahs (Ph) with Matt Lauer when Matt Lauer was engaged in his sexual activity --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: Let me move on. Because you told the Sacramento Bee that you believe --

(CROSSTALK)

ELDER: Well, if -- well, Howie, --

KURTZ: Let me just --

ELDER: Howie, on the campaign trail, the outlet that asked me the most about this is CNN. I think it's awfully hypocritical given their own history, that's all I'm saying.

KURTZ: All right. You told the Sacramento Bee that you believe Joe Biden won the election fairly and squarely. But then in a radio interview you said I want to take a mull again on that and you said you don't believe that. So, what's your position.

ELDER: I don't believe the election was won fairly and squarely. And by the way, that quote was truncated. I also went on to say that there were shenanigans. We know there were shenanigans in Michigan, shenanigans in Wisconsin, in Pennsylvania.

We know the Hunter Biden story was spiked, and enough Biden voters say had they known about that Hunter Biden story that was spiked by Twitter and the New York Post had their own Twitter account shut down, enough Biden voters say had they known about that story they wouldn't have voted for Biden.

And we know that for two and a half years Donald Trump was pursued by this bogus Russia collusion story. So, there's all sorts of reason why the 2020 election, in my opinion was full of shenanigans. And my fear is they're going to try that in this election right here in recall.

So, I'm urging people to go to elect Eleder.com and whenever you see anything, hear anything suspicious, go to my web site. We have a vary of lawyers we're going to file lawsuits in a timely fashion this time.

KURTZ: All right. I've got half a minute. You've described the media attacks on you as a racial smear campaign, but with the exception of that white supremacy column I referenced earlier, aren't most of these news outlets opposed to your conservative ideology as opposed to taking you on for racial reasons?

ELDER: Well, they're doing whatever they can to bring me down. And just days before the L.A. Times headline Larry Elder is the blackface of white supremacy. You've been warned. There was another article that all but called me a black David Duke.

They're going hysterical because of what I said, Howie. They're afraid that I'm going to be able to break the stranglehold that they've had over blacks and browns for years. All I am is common sense. I'm going to do something about the crime, going to do something about the lousy education, do something about the rise in homelessness, do something about our water crisis, about our poor management of the forest. What could be so bad?

KURTZ: Larry Elder, thanks very much for taking time out from the campaign trail to speak with us.

ELDER: My pleasure, Howie. Thank you for having me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: We've invited Gavin Newsom who has risen in the polls this week to join us next Sunday. After the break, podcaster Joe Rogan gets COVID and some of his detractors seem to be celebrating. Mike Huckabee on the politics of COVID-19, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ (on camera): Joe Rogan, maybe the most popular podcaster on the planet, has at times questioned whether everyone needs to get vaccinated. And the other day he posted this video on Instagram.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE ROGAN, PODCAST HOST: Throughout the night I got fevers and sweats, I knew what was going on. So, I got up in the morning, got tested, and turns out I've got COVID.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera): Rogan's disclosure that he's throwing the kitchen sink at the virus, such as taking Ivermectin, best known as a horse dewormer, prompted plenty of chatter including from a CNN medical analyst.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN REINER, MEDICAL ANALYST, CNN: I think unfortunately, Mr. Rogan is now understanding that this is no joke. He's promoting kind of a crazy jumble of, you know, sort of folk remedies and internet prescribed drugs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera): Rogan has since had a negative test. Joining us now from Little Rock, Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas Governor and presidential candidate, now Fox News contributor.

And Governor, Joe Rogan is not one of the four anti-vaccine radio hosts who tragically as you know have died in recent months. Former Congressman Joe Walsh tweeted that Rogan deserves S because he spread lies and misinformation about the vaccine. What's your reaction on pundits actually seen pleased when someone they disagree with has gotten the virus?

MIKE HUCKABEE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Howie, I don't hate anybody. I really don't. I don't even dislike people enough to wish them to get ill or to die. I find this just the most crazy thing. And this often comes from people who love to say love wins. If this is love, keep he me out of it.

People have died from COVID. People have gotten really sick from COVID. And I don't celebrate, I don't care what their political view is, I just find that absolutely nuts. A good friend of mine, Phil Valentine, who is a radio talk show host, and he died just a few weeks ago. It was a tragedy. He was a great guy. He was a wonderful talent. I don't know why anybody would think that it was a good thing that he passed away.

The fact is Joe Rogan took Ivermectin. people forget that Ivermectin is a human medicine. There is an animal version of it. But it won a Nobel Peace Prize or rather a Nobel Prize for science as a great treatment in human beings for parasites and various things. So, some doctors have prescribed it.

I can't tell you if it's a great treatment for COVID. But I'm not going to let somebody call it a horse medicine and forget the fact that there is a human version of it, prescribed by medical doctors across the world.

KURTZ: Well, I think the Ivermectin is a fair point for media discussion, given that the FDA said it's useless for this point. But, by the way, Rogan said last spring he didn't think younger people need to take the vaccines, and then he reversed himself and said, don't listen to me, I'm a blanking moron. So, I think he's getting a bit of a bad rap there.

More broadly, we're now up to 1,500 new deaths a day, average for the country. We haven't seen those numbers in a long time.

Let me move to the Texas abortion law, we talked earlier about a lot of anger at the Supreme Court and at Texas on the left. But even some conservatives say it goes too far. It's too draconian by allowing anybody to sue doctors, counselors, even the Uber driver who drives a woman to a clinic to get an abortion after six months and gives a $10,000 reward if you win. Now, I know you're pro-life. But would you have signed such a law as governor of Arkansas?

HUCKABEE: I'd have to look and see the consequences. I think the part about you can sue for taking someone to an abortion clinic is problematic. I think a lot of people recognize it. But I'm just glad somebody's trying to do something about the epidemic of lives that we lose every year for no reason other than the fact that some people believe that an abortion is something that a woman does to her body.

It's actually something she does to her child and it's irreversible and irrevocable. And I wish people would really think about that the ultimate way to resolve this is to deal with the fact of personhood. That when an individual has his or her life taken without due process, it's a violation of the fifth and 14th amendments.

So, the sooner we come to the conclusion that an unborn child is in fact a human being, a person, then the fifth and 14th amendment will take care of all of the abortion questions because right now we're losing a million babies a year with no due process whatsoever.

KURTZ: I understand the very strong feelings on this. On the other hand, Roe v. Wade has been the law of the land for 50 years. And we'll see when it actually gets a constitutional test or the sudden law in Mississippi in Supreme Court how that turns out.

Let's turn to the war in Afghanistan, a disastrous exit there. Many in the media say, well, you know, it's not entirely President Biden's fault because it was Donald Trump who negotiated the withdrawal with the Taliban and that Biden made the best of a situation with no good options. What do you make of that line of media defense of the president?

HUCKABEE: It's utter nonsense. Joe Biden reversed every single thing Donald Trump did from the XL Pipeline to the border situation and the border wall to agricultural policies, to forest policies. Basically, everything Donald Trump stood for. Joe Biden reversed it.

For him to come in and say my hands were tied on this one, it's ludicrous. Nobody can believe that. And the fact is, he made the decision to pull the military out before we had American citizens pulled out. He put Afghanistan people on airplanes and got them out, who had no SIV, the special immigrant visa.

KURTZ: Yes.

HUCKABEE: He pulled them out with leaving Americans there. This is nonsense. And the fact is, if the media were covering this issue fairly and with balance, I guarantee you his poll numbers would be even worse than they already are.

KURTZ: Governor, I've got half a minute. I mean, I think there's a lot of coverage from the ordinary Biden allies in the media while this was going on. Now I think it's starting to fade. Would you agree that their -- that the president was not defended by many of his media allies during this war withdrawal.

HUCKABEE: I think they ignored it, except the ones who were actually on the ground. I mean, you had CNN's Clarissa Ward, you had Richard Engle from NBC. I wonder how long they'll last at those networks. They may get fired because they actually did something that you don't see very often. They practiced honest journalism, they reported what they say, and what they saw was chaos, was disaster, was absolute insanity, especially when they reported --

KURTZ: All right.

HUCKABEE: -- that State Department and military officials kept Americans from getting through the checkpoints and getting on those airplanes to get them the heck out of Afghanistan when they really wanted to be.

KURTZ: I praised them as well, including Fox's Jennifer Griffin. Always good to see you, Governor Mike Huckabee. Thanks for coming by.

HUCKABEE: You bet. Thanks, Howie.

KURTZ: Still to come, why Mike Richards can no longer produce "Jeopardy." Al Roker slams his younger critics. And the passing of the great Lou Grant actor Ed Asner, that's coming up on the Buzz Beater.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ (on camera): See if I can beat the clock only the Buzz Beater. Go. I can never understand how Sony could dump Mike Richards as the host of Jeopardy but allow him to run the show as executive procedure. Well, now he's lost that job and the same role at Wheel of Fortune after all.

If his past offensive remarks disqualified him from hosting, how could he stay on. Sony just bet the bad press blowing over. A top executive telling this. We had hoped that when Mike stepped down from the host position of Jeopardy it would have minimized the disruption and internal difficulties, we have all experienced these last few weeks. That clearly has not happened.

But Sony bares much of the blame for not vetting the guy the letting him hijacked the search to succeed Alex Trebek and nab the job himself.

USA Today fact checking who said President Biden didn't actually check his watch during a ceremony for families of the fallen soldiers at Dover. That it appeared to be afterwards. But then the paper had run a correction, saying the photos did show Biden checking his watch three times during the ceremony. An embarrassing failure to get the facts right.

Al Roker was in New Orleans covering Hurricane Ida, shrugging off critics who said the veteran NBC weather guy shouldn't be there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL ROKER, WEATHER FORECASTER, NBC: I volunteered to come out here. This is what I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera): And Roker had a message to those who say at 67 he's too old to be chasing storms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROKER: Hey, guess what, screw you. OK. Try to keep up. Keep up, OK? That's it.

UNKNOWN: Al Roker --

ROKER: He's young, folks. I will drop them -- I will drop like a bag of dirt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera): Well said. That guy doesn't mince words. Speaking of meteorologists, Willard Scott, a fixture on NBC's D.C. station after serving as the first Ronald McDonald, went on to become a kind of a folk hero on the Today Show has died. He was a lovely guy who wore funny costumes, he wished people happy birthday.

And despite scorn from some colleagues he proudly embraced his bufoon act, saying I may be a corn ball but I am me and viewers just loved Willard.

We've also lost Ed Asner, the media tributes pouring in for the 91-year-old actor who gained television fame when he first interviewed Mary Tyler Moore at a whacky TV station.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED ASNER, ACTOR: You've got spunk.

MARY TYLER MOORE, ACTRESS: Well.

ASNER: I hate spunk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera): But for me, his most important role was as hard-boiled city editor Lou Grant who dealt with complicated newspaper stories in a sophisticated way from CIA press to going undercover, to paying sources, to the owner Mrs. Pynchon demanding that a routine speech be covered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASNER: Are you kidding? We can get the speech from their P.R. guy. And any kid can check out the rest.

UNKNOWN: Well, the bottom line here is that Mrs. Pynchon feels we've gotten little unbalanced with negative police stories.

ASNER: We don't make the news.

UNKNOWN: Sure, we do, by what we pick to cover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ (on camera): It showed he inspired some prominent journalists to become ink stain (Inaudible) and Ed Asner captured the newsroom angst and his liberal political activism against the Reagan administration sparked a backlash that contributed to CBS canceling the show. He's got it under the wire.

That's it for this edition of MEDIA BUZZ. I'm Howard Kurtz. Hope you're enjoying this Labor Day weekend. We also hope you'll check us out on Facebook and Twitter and check out my podcast, Media Buzz Meter. You can get it on Apple iTunes or Google podcast, or on your Amazon device and lots of other places.

We didn't have quite the flood of breaking news as we did last week with the end of the war in Afghanistan and Hurricane Ida. But we try to bring you a good show every week, holiday or not. We're back here next Sunday. See you then with the latest buzz.

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