KT McFarland celebrates Flynn pardon, decries lack of justice in case

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This is a rush transcript from “The Story with Martha MacCallum" November 25, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Good evening, everybody. I'm Dana Perino in for
Martha MacCallum and this is THE STORY. We begin tonight with a Fox News
Alert. President Trump pardoning his former National Security Adviser
Michael Flynn just a short time ago, ending a four-year legal saga for the
retired Army Lieutenant General.

Flynn pled guilty to lying to the FBI in 2017 but was working to reverse
that plea amid claims of prosecutorial misconduct. A lot of politically
charged fallout surrounding this tonight. We will have the first reaction
from K.T. McFarland who worked closely alongside General Flynn as well as
Byron York coming up.

But first, a record number of Americans hitting the road tonight for
Thanksgiving travel despite CDC recommendations and this message from
President-elect Biden today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I know how hard it is
to forego family traditions, but it's so very important. Our country is in
the middle of a dramatic spike in cases. I'd be surprised if we hit 200,000
cases in a single day.
 
(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So, as state and local officials take measures that they claim will
slow the spread including banning businesses from serving alcohol tonight
and encouraging people to call the police on each other for violating rules
against large gatherings, some Americans are pushing back. One of them is
Richard Giardino. He's the sheriff of Fulton County in New York State. He
says tomorrow his deputies will not be enforcing the 10 person limit that
Governor Cuomo has ordered on Thanksgiving celebrations. Sheriff, thank you
for joining us tonight. Tell us your take on why you said, what you did?
 
RICHARD GIARDINO, FULTON COUNTY, NY SHERIFF: Thanks for having me, Dana.
First of all, I think that all of us want to reduce the number of deaths
and the people who are transmitting, but you can't do it in an
unconstitutional fashion. So, I'm strictly looking at it from a legal
standpoint.

Many people say, well under your legal view people may die. Well, you can't
keep pushing liberties to the side to implement programs that may have
better answers. So, first of all, the governor issued an executive order,
that is not a law. It has the same effect and in fact in sanctions for
businesses because they're licensed by state agencies like the Liquor
Authority or the health department. So, he can do that.

But I think it's an overreach. And I've said this from two weeks because
there's no position in the executive order which allows us to go into
somebody's house, to arrest them, to charge them or to find or do anything
else with them. So, it's really has no teeth. And I think yesterday he
almost conceded that when he said people misunderstood his order. He wasn't
suggesting police were coming to their house.

PERINO: Before he said that though, Sheriff, listen to what he said about
these decisions that some sheriffs are saying that they're not going to do
this. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): You don't have the right to pick laws that you
think you will enforce. And you don't enforce laws that you don't agree
with. Right. That's not a law enforcement officer. That's a dictator.
 
(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Sheriff, some might think that that's hard to swallow when during
the protests Governor Cuomo tolerated those and encouraged those even when
we were supposed to be social distancing.

GIARDINO: Well, it's interesting that the governor would be calling anyone
dictators when he's trying to tell you how many people you can have in your
own home. But I think people want us to stop the bickering. It's
unconstitutional on its face. You can't just order us into somebody's home.

What I think is people like myself leaders on local level have to meet with
the governor and other people and say look, we all have the best interests
of our people in mind. Let's sit down. How can we fast orders that people
will follow that don't infringe on their rights? And Governor Cuomo said
something interesting at one of his Emmy Award winning press conferences,
he put a picture of Abraham Lincoln and a quote on the screen and it said
tell people the truth and they will make the right decisions.

And so, my belief is people in my community after eight months know what
the risks are and can use precautions and make the right decisions from
them. I'm not suggesting that people have 20 people at their house. I'm
just suggesting he can't do that.

The other thing that's very important, Dr. Fauci has been telling all of us
for eight months, it's going to spike in the fall, it's going to spike in
the fall and winter, there's going to be more deaths, there's going to be
more illness and all of a sudden people - that's a surprise. We've been
told that we have to take precautions, flus spike in the winter, in the
fall.

And Dr. Fauci said just the other day people have to make a risk assessment
what's right for the families. I think one thing that's really important to
people around this country from the governor in California to the governor
in New York, Michigan, mayors, do as I say not as I do. And if it's such a
virulent threat to the society, why is it OK for them to violate their own
rules. And I think that's part of the reason there's such a push back. But
I think ultimately, we have to work together Dana to come to an enforceable
rule that doesn't violate people's rights.
 
PERINO: I think that sounds eminently reasonable and something he should
take you up on. Sheriff Giardino, I wish you a Happy Thanksgiving and
thanks for coming on the show.

GIARDINO: Hey, Dana, Happy Thanksgiving. Keep it to 10 or under or we'll
have to show up at your house.

PERINO: You've got it.

GIARDINO: Thank you very much. Bye-bye.
 
PERINO: All right. Bye-bye. Also, here tonight, Robby Soave, he's senior
editor at Reason. And the sheriff just mentioned something that I wanted to
bring up, which is that we have seen a series of examples where elected
leaders are telling people to do one thing and then doing another.

Earlier today, my sister, who lives just outside of Denver, sent me a note.
She said, can you believe that the mayor of Denver, Michael Hancock is now
on a plane leaving DIA Airport headed to Texas and then on to Mississippi.
He then has since tweeted an apology that you can see, I think up there on
your screen, basically saying that he made a mistake. It was too much. And
he - but he did say, I don't think anyone would have thought I should spend
Thanksgiving alone, Robby.
 
ROBBY SOAVE, SENIOR EDITOR, REASON: Yes. So, our elected officials, the
people who are making these pronouncements for how we're supposed to live,
they can't even follow their own guidance. We've seen that from countless
mayors, from some governors. And you know what, I don't blame them because
this is really hard. It is hard to not see friends, to not see family,
especially around the holidays. But that should make our leaders more
sympathetic to the plight of everyone else and less inclined to resort
towards draconian, sending the police after everybody.

I was glad to hear what the sheriff had to say. I fully agree with him.
Didn't we also just have a summer where we had a conversation sort of as a
nation about too much policing or communities that feel overpoliced? And
now you're going to say that we should send the police into more homes to
break up, like private social gathering. That seems like a recipe for
possibly greater harm than even trying to prevent the Coronavirus.
 
PERINO: The other thing is, I know that you are a little bit concerned
about the possibility that some of the things that the government has
decided to do and look, and I understand a lot of them are under the gun,
they're making complicated and complex decisions to figure out a way to
protect public health until we get the vaccine, which is not too far away,
but that some of these measures are actually things that could last longer
into the future and infringe on liberties.
 
SOAVE: Yes, I mean, there's no way around it. We're seeing a very, very
dramatic expansion of what the government is apparently allowed to tell us
to do, not just kind of in the public square or out in the public, but in
your own home. That's kind of a serious deal. And I understand why it's
being proposed. And we want everyone - I think it's fine for the government
to propose to tell you, we'd prefer if you did this. Here's what we know
based on the science, although even what they've said has not always fit
it.

We want people to actually eat at restaurants, outdoors, and in some
places, they're closing those now. And so that will make people go to their
homes where it's more dangerous. But anyway, it's just concerning to me
that they can tell you what to do in that level of privacy violations is
really something to be concerned about that that sticks around that. That
that's a really, really scary precedent.
 
PERINO: I think the other thing and you've made this point before is, they
told us in March, it was 15 days to slow the spread. And we've learned a
lot more about this virus that we know that the death rates are something
we would prefer not to have it where they are. We do know a lot more about
how to treat the virus now, but we are looking at a potentially really
difficult next couple of months while we try to get these vaccines out. Do
you think there's anything that the government can say to people to
encourage them to try to hang tight?
 
SOAVE: Right. They've been saying that for so long, the experts have been
saying that. This has been the longest 15 days of my life. I don't know
about yours, and we wish we could redo it and say, actually, during the
warmer summer months, please go to the beach, don't close the beaches,
don't close the parks, enjoy it now because we're in for actually a rough
road down the line. And I wish the government had done more to have to have
testing be really on a universal basis where you could be tested so much
that you could be reasonably assured that some of these things are safer
than they seem.

But the only silver lining really is that the vaccine does now finally seem
like it is just around the corner. So, maybe people can hold on just a
little bit longer, we've heard that before--

PERINO: Just 15 more days.

SOAVE: But I think it's true this time, yes, right.
 
PERINO: A couple more of 15 more days along the way. Robby Soave, Happy
Thanksgiving. Thank you.

SOAVE: Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

PERINO: So, up next, teachers in one state plan to ask children to tell on
their parents if they broke the stay home orders on Thanksgiving break.
Kennedy is here to talk about that next.
 
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Children in one state could face an interrogation when they return
to the classroom next week, Vermont teachers plan to ask students if their
parents violated travel restrictions by taking their families to other
households for Thanksgiving. And if the students say yes, they'll have to
quarantine at home and learn remotely for seven to 14 days.

Joining me now, Fox Business host Kennedy, who has two daughters of her
own. What do you think about this whole thing? To me, you already have a
situation where teachers and parents are almost pitted against each other.
Now, you almost exacerbate that between parents and kids.
 
LISA KENNEDY MONTGOMERY, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK HOST: It's very true. So,
anyone who has tried to help a student with math homework, you realize that
those math lessons are set up, so parents are left completely in the dark.
That's hard enough to begin with. But now children in Vermont are being
used as the wedge. And so, they're being indoctrinated to think that their
parents are doing something wrong and they have to spy on their own family
and then report back to operatives of the states, these teachers.

And, they're going to ask little kids, did you see anyone? Did you have a
play date? And, of course, no one's going to encourage their children to
lie. So, what does that mean? That we're all going to be shut ins for this
foreseeable future, that we can't have play dates, that we can't go to the
park and in places like Vermont, where it gets very cold earlier in the
year than it does in places like Arizona or California, kids can't play
outside. And we have to get creative. But this is not creative. This is
oppressive.
 
PERINO: In fact, one of the things that the student, the Vermont education
secretary named, Dan French, one of the things he said is that schools
operate on trust. And that's, of course, true between their parents and
their students and that they're hopeful that this guidance will give them
some additional tools to make sure that they do the right thing.
 
MONTGOMERY: Isn't that wonderful? Yes. And also, if there is that degree of
trust, then people should have the opportunity to self-govern. And I
thought that those were ideals that were held onto pretty tightly in the
Northeast. But my worry is that this type of behavior and these types of
systems will continue and persist after the virus fades. When we are all
vaccinated, and we achieve herd immunity, and we go about our daily lives.
Will this be the new normal for kids? Will they be the ones who are
essentially forced to spy on their own parents?

Because the ramifications, they can be pretty dire, which is it's no wonder
the parents are looking into things like pods and micro schools and home
schooling, not just in Vermont, but all across the country.
 
PERINO: That's an interesting point. I had a really great guest, Reshma
Saujani. She created Girls Who Code and I had her on the show, and she was
talking about how kids absolutely need to be in schools. And she said,
look, I'm not going to worry about decisions that were made in the past,
but what's the plan going forward? And her point, Kennedy, was that we are
at risk of losing a generation of kids just because in this one year, I
know of a young boy, he's seven years old, he has ADHD and asthma. He
hasn't been in the classroom since March. Kennedy, he has forgotten how to
read.

MONTGOMERY: Yes.

PERINO: And that is devastating for a family and for his life.
 
MONTGOMERY: Kids are at their wits end, and if they're not regressing, then
they're static. And that's an awful place to be.
 
PERINO: But not only that, Kennedy, but the data doesn't show that kids
shouldn't be in school. I think that's what's really frustrating.
 
MONTGOMERY: Yes, it is. And kids are also they're not optimal vectors for
the virus. That means that they are not the ones who are spreading it. But
in big cities all across the country, these teachers' unions are the ones
keeping the schools closed. And that's scary because President-elect Joe
Biden is talking about putting someone from one of the largest teachers'
unions in the country, rather, in charge of the Department of Education.

And we know the teacher's unions, they don't like school choice. They don't
like charter schools. But parents are having a very different conversation
than that right now. And it's because of stories like this that many
families are having a rethink when it comes to their kids' education.
 
PERINO: There could be a complete revolution in terms of education out of
this, which would be a good thing that could come out of this. Kennedy,
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your girls.

MONTGOMERY: You too, Dana. Thank you.

PERINO: OK. Bye-bye. Up next, more on tonight's breaking news. President
Trump pardoning his former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, taking
a parting shot at the Russia probe. Strong reaction pouring in from both
sides of the aisle. Byron York and K.T. McFarland, who worked closely with
General Flynn join me next.
 
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Breaking news tonight, President Trump announcing a full pardon for
his former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, who pleaded guilty to
lying to the FBI in 2017. The president tweeting, it is my great honor to
announce a general. Michael T. Flynn has been granted a full pardon.
Congratulations to General Flynn and his wonderful family. I know you will
now have a truly fantastic Thanksgiving.

And just a couple of minutes ago, Flynn tweeted this, fight like a Flynn,
God bless family. Here now, Byron York, Chief Political Correspondent for
The Washington Examiner and Fox News Contributor. This has been quite a
legal saga, Byron, and it comes to an end tonight.
 
BYRON YORK, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: It does, and I think it's going to make a
lot of Republicans very happy because they believe that Michael Flynn had
been railroaded. If you go back to 2016 when he's part of the Trump
campaign, the FBI is investigating him. They do a long investigation. And
by the beginning of 2017, they have decided that there is no improper
relationship at all between Michael Flynn and Russia.

And they're going to close the investigation. And then they discover this
wiretap where Flynn was talking to the Russian ambassador, which is
perfectly legitimate because Flynn was the incoming national security
adviser.

They decide to go question him in the White House about this. There's some
discussion of trying to catch him in a lie. And even then, afterwards, they
don't think he has lied, and they decide not to do anything. It's not until
the middle of 2017 when Robert Mueller, the special counsel was appointed
that they pulled the Flynn case down off-the-shelf and decided they can use
it to try to pressure Flynn into testifying against the president. That's
when he ultimately pleaded guilty and this whole terrible court saga began.
 
PERINO: Byron, I want you to listen to some of the reaction after this
pardon was granted today.
 
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is undemocratic. This is an attempt to rewrite
history.
 
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Essentially, these pardons are yet another form of
obstruction of justice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's not lose sight of just what a wild abuse of power
this is by the president.
 
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a body blow to our national security. It's also a
body blow to the rule of law and I think makes a mockery of our democracy.
 
(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Byron, as far as pardons go, do you really think this is one of the
most controversial.
 
YORK: No, as a matter of fact, it's kind of fits into a tradition of
presidents pardoning people who've been caught up in investigations that
were really targeting the president. On Christmas Eve in 1992, George H.W.
Bush pardoned Caspar Weinberger and several others who had been involved in
the Iran-Contra matter. When Bill Clinton left office in January of 2001,
he pardoned a number of people who had been caught up in independent
counsel investigations that were basically targeting the Clinton
administration.

Then in 2007, George W. Bush commuted the sentence of Scooter Libby, who
had been Dick Cheney's Chief of Staff, who was caught up in what was called
the CIA leak investigation. And then. President Trump offered Libby a full
pardon, so these are entirely consistent with what presidents do on the way
out. If President Trump had won re-election. My guess is he would have let
this Flynn case continue in the courts.
 
PERINO: Let me ask you about that, actually.

YORK: Leaving office on January 20th.

PERINO: Can I ask you about that? Because Judge Sullivan has been sitting
for about six months. The Justice Department had reversed itself. It was
asking for a dismissal. The Flynn folks were asking for a dismissal, and
the judge was waiting, and he tried to see if another court, what they
thought and went back to him. He was sitting on this for so long that at
this point, I mean, now the case is moot. But a full dismissal was on the
table for Michael Flynn.
 
YORK: Absolutely, because we had learned about FBI, the FBI's conduct in
this whole case, very questionable. They did not have a good reason to
start this investigation. The Justice Department this year in May decided
to just drop the case. We're no longer going to charge this man. This case
is over. The judge would not accept it, appointed his own advocate to argue
against Flynn and has dragged this on at each time, even though other
judges have suggested it's time for him to let it go because the Justice
Department does not want to prosecute. You're right. A pardon just makes it
all moot now.
 
PERINO: And Byron, I've followed all of your reporting on this as this has
gone on. And I thank you for keeping us informed and for being here
tonight. Happy Thanksgiving.

YORK: Thank you, Dana.

PERINO: All right, also here tonight, K.T. McFarland, former Deputy
National Security Adviser who served under General Flynn for the Trump
administration. She's also the author of Revolution, Trump, Washington, and
We the People. K.T., I feel like I should just open it up to you to express
yourself tonight. This is the first time we're hearing from you. And I'm
sure you're having a lot of emotions.
 
K.T. MCFARLAND, FORMER DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Yes, I mean, first
of all, Dana, thank you for that, I'm very happy for General Flynn and for
his family and maybe they can now go about rebuilding their lives and he
can go about restoring his fortunes and reclaiming his reputation.
 
But I like to look at it in even a bigger picture, because the effort to go
after General Flynn, it wasn't about General Flynn. They came after me too,
it was never about me. It was always about getting Donald Trump. And they
made the whole thing up.

Senior officials and the Obama administration in the West Wing and the
Justice Department and the FBI and in the intelligence community, they knew
Mike Flynn didn't commit any crime and talking to the Russian ambassador,
but they pursued it anyway. They made up the whole Russia hoax and they
dragged not only Flynn and others, myself included, they destroyed our
careers, our lives, but they knew that they were destroying the nation and
they still went ahead with it.

And I look at that and I say, General Flynn has been pardoned. Good for
him. But how does the country get those three years back? How does the
Trump administration, which was targeted from the beginning, and from
within, was sabotaged? How does he get that time back?

How does the nation get the division back that these people sowed? I look
at the people themselves, they are never going to be held to account. They
are never going to have to answer for what they did to the country and to
the rest of the people. They have collected their 30 pieces of silver and a
lot of them, in fact, are joining the Biden administration.

PERINO:  I actually was going to ask you about that. You know, this case
was not dismissed as we just spoke to Byron about. Are you -- are you
unsatisfied in terms of no one being held to account?

MCFARLAND:  You bet. Because these people knew what they were doing. And
they did it intentionally. And they leaked anonymous sources would be
constantly feeding this into the press about General Flynn, President Trump
and others. And yet now it's not anonymous sources that have come out.
Documents have come out. A lot of it in their own hand. Text messages,
phone messages. E-mails they were sending each other.

They knew exactly what they were doing. They were saying one thing to the
privately to each other, we're going to get him. We're going to have this
go on and on and on. We are going to try to even string it on past the
election in hopes that in a Biden administration they can go back after
Flynn.

Look, if it hadn't been -- in my case, if it hadn't been for me having the
best lawyer in the country Bob Jeffer (Ph) of a law firm in New York and
having a whistleblower on the Mueller investigation saying know, you can't
charge her with crimes that she didn't commit, I would have been in the
same position.

They knew what they were doing. They were charging people and blackmailing
people with crimes they didn't commit. They were trying to get General
Flynn and myself to accuse President Trump of crimes he didn't commit
because they hated him so much. And, yet, there is no justice. Now,
whatever the Durham investigation is, I don't think that will ever see the
light of day.

PERINO:  Well, K.T. McFarland, I know that this is -- it's a good day for
the Flynns. And I know that you feel good about it. I understand the
frustration.

MCFARLAND:  I didn't.

PERINO:  I hear it. And I hope you have a very, very happy Thanksgiving.
You certainly deserve it.

MCFARLAND:  Thank you very much, Dana.

PERINO (voice over):  All right. Straight ahead, the true cost of
nationwide lockdowns. Food bank and unemployment lines are growing every
day. Our next guest says getting America back to work should be the number
one job for the next administration. This has been Andy -- Andy Puzder
joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:  As hard as it
may seem this Thanksgiving, we are going to dream big again. Our future is
bright. In fact, we've never been -- I've never been more optimistic about
the future of America than I am right now. I honest to God believe the 21st
century is going to be an American century. We are going to build an
economy that leads the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera):  Joe Biden expressing economic optimism late today
despite signs of a new slowdowns in jobs, long lines at U.S. food banks and
COVID-19 lockdowns returning to parts of the country. Jobless claims up for
a second straight week with 778,000 Americans filing for unemployment and
there are more than six million Americans now receiving unemployment
benefits.

My next guest writes, job one for the next presidential administration will
be getting America back to work. The measure of that effort success will be
how closely it can approximate the conditions of 2019. Not the result of
government efforts to mandate economic equality, rather it was President
Trump's economic policies.

Here now Andy Puzder. He former CKE Restaurants CEO and author of "It's
Time to Let America Work Again." So, I'm intrigued by what you wrote today.
How do you think we can get back to 2019?

ANDY PUZDER, FORMER CEO, CKE RESTAURANTS:  Well, first of all, we need to
not engage in the kind of policies we had during the Obama era which is big
government spending, tax increases. A deluge of regulations and attempts to
squash domestic energy production. We need to follow the kind of economic
policies we had under President Trump.

But in 2019, I call it the year of the worker. It produced the most dynamic
labor market in the history of the country. The strongest and highest
growth in family income to the highest number ever and the highest decline
in the poverty rate to the lowest poverty rate ever. We need to get back
there and we can get back there with the policies that are in place
currently.

PERINO:  I was going to point out to you the resilience of the American
worker and the ingenuity and the creativity. Part of this might be out of
necessity. But let me get your take on this.

So new business applications in the United States for the third quarter of
2020 were 1.5 million. So that's an increase of 77.4 percent compared to
the second quarter of 2020. People want to create new businesses. Now,
again, that partly might be out of necessity because they lost their jobs.
How can we help them keep it going?

PUZDER:  Well, you know, and the economy is really on fire. That's why you
are seeing these -- you are seeing these business applications. I saw -- I
checked this morning on GDP now. And they've actually elevated, lifted
their prediction for GDP growth for the fourth quarter to 11 percent. Two
days ago, they were estimating it would be 5 percent.

So, people are really trying to get back to work. And these lockdowns, now,
look, in cities where you have the potential for the hospitals or medical
facilities to be overwhelmed. That's a different story.

PERINO:  Yes.

PUZDER:  We need to act very quickly.

PERINO:  Agree.

PUZDER:  But for the rest of the country getting back to work is incredibly
important. If you look at California. If you look at Illinois and New York.
You take those three states of the 700 plus thousand new applications for
unemployment insurance that came out today, 40 percent of those were from
those three states and those are states that are locking their economies
down.

Damaging the people. Damaging businesses. Damaging workers. You know,
elderly people can't meet with family members. We are seeing increases in
depression, alcoholism, drug addiction, so, you know, we need to do what we
can to get the economy back on track.

PERINO:  Also, we read today that many children Fairfax County schools in
Virginia pointed out there are many children failing these classes when
they are taking them remotely so we have to catch up there, too.

I want to ask you about this though because we are in the holiday season,
people are going to be wanting to buy Christmas gifts. I was interested in
this. Holiday spending plans are actually strengthening. Just a little bit.
You know, last year people spent about $846. This year they plan to spend
$852. Does that make sense to you?

PUZDER:  Well, it does only there's -- people have a lot of savings.
There's a lot of savings out there right now. Now that doesn't mean I don't
mean to demean any of the people that have lost jobs and are scraping to
get by. But in general Americans have saved a lot of money over the past
six, seven months because, number one, because they have been working from
home and haven't been going anywhere. Number two there were government
benefits that went out.

So, I think we could see consumer spending. People are getting -- I mean,
people are really tired of this. And I can tell that you from personal
experience. We are all ready for --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO:  Can I ask you one last question?

PUZDER:  -- we're all ready for this to be over.

PERINO:  I got one last quick question.

PUZDER:  Sure.

PERINO:  Do you think that the Congress needs to pass another COVID relief
bill before the end of this year?

PUZDER:  No, I don't think they need to pass a massive COVID relief bill
though. I think a bill that provided benefits for people that have lost
their jobs because of these lockdowns not because of anything of their own
fault but because of the lockdowns. Businesses that are now suffering like
restaurants that are suffering because of the lockdowns. We need to help
those people. But we don't need a mass -- we don't need a $4 trillion bill.
I mean, the 1.8 trillion that Senate proposed was more than sufficient.

PERINO:  That's good -- it's good to hear you say that. An interesting as
they have those debates. We would love to have you back, of course. Thank
you, Andy.

PUZDER:  Any time.

PERINO:  Happy Thanksgiving.

PUZDER:  Thanks, Dana. You too.

PERINO:  Former President Barack Obama scold Hispanic voters for supporting
Republicans suggesting they don't know what's good for them. Raymond Arroyo
here with reaction and some advice for a peaceful Thanksgiving dinner,
next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO (voice over):  President Trump winning over many Latino Evangelicals
from the state of Florida and Texas. But today, President Obama claimed
that these key voters put aside Trump's, quote, "racist rhetoric because he
supports their religious views." Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:  There are
a lot of Evangelical Hispanics who, you know, the fact that Trump says
racist things about Mexicans or puts detainees, you know, undocumented
workers in cages, they think that's less important than the fact that, you
know, he supports their views on, you know, gay marriage or abortion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera):  Joining me now Raymond Arroyo, EWTN news managing
editor and a Fox News contributor, he's also the author of "The Spider Who
Saved Christmas" which I have got to get indeed. Raymond, thank you so much
for being here.

You know, as soon as I heard that sound this morning I thought, my gosh, in
some ways I think maybe in his mind a lot of things haven't changed. But
you spent time on the ground talking to Catholic voters and Hispanic voters
that's not what you heard.

RAYMOND ARROYO, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  Look, Dana, this clearly shows that
Democrats and Barack Obama are worried about this constituency. President
Trump lost the Hispanic vote by 20 points to Hillary Clinton. With Biden he
only lost by 12. And in many of the -- in the hundred or so Hispanic
majority counties, he won those. He was -- he has increased his margins.

So, they're worried. But to dismiss them on their religious beliefs, Dana,
these are the things when I talk to voters, they kept talking about the
strength of Trump that attracted them. His pro-life position and his stance
against socialism. That was a deeply held fear for many of his Hispanic
voters.

So, if he really wants to finish alienating the Hispanic voter for the
Democratic Party, keep talking and dismissing religion and their deeply
held beliefs as well as letting the socialist wing of the Democratic Party
lead. It will surely alienate.

PERINO:  And then I read this this morning in Politico. I want to the
brings it up with you. This was saying that Biden must move quickly to
prove he has learned from President Obama's mistakes on immigration. Obama
despite creating DACA was dubbed deporter-in-chief and is known for
expanding the detention of immigrant families and dragging his feet or
major immigration legislation.

So, you know, these issues are going to be front and center. In fact, Biden
today said within the first 100 days he is going to have an immigration
plan. But that's not necessarily the only issue that people care about.

ARROYO:  No. And not those Hispanics I talk to in Tampa, in Michigan. They
were much more concerned about jobs, about the thriving economy and the
socialism. The fear of socialism coming to these shores. They just escaped
it in their native countries.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO:  That's what they left, right.

ARROYO:  Right. They don't want that, and that was a major, I think, force
in the Hispanic vote. And, look, we Hispanics do deeply hold our religious
beliefs. We lead with that. That's a good thing. And the Democrats and the
Republicans should lean in to it, not disparage or make fun of people's
religious beliefs.

PERINO:  Hear here. I also wanted to talk to you wrote a piece for the New
York Post about surviving Thanksgiving without political disagreement.

ARROYO:  Yes.

PERINO:  What's the secret?

ARROYO:  Well, the big secret is, there shouldn't be politics at the table.

PERINO:  Agree.

ARROYO:  My friend Father John Youhas (Ph) used to say, Dana, the first
thing about politics is that politics is not first thing. But look, if you
have politically divisive members of your family that have to come over,
use my containment strategy. Try to keep them at home and do a Zooms giving
if you can. If they have to come to the table, seating is essential, Dana.

Either site the CDC COVID regulations and put them out on the porch for
their own safety, not for yours but for theirs. And if that doesn't work,
seat children around them. It's awfully hard to get into political battles
with kids.

PERINO:  I like that. Once they talk about TikTok the Instagram videos and
Baby Yoda Uncle Fred will quickly go silent and focus on Dana's delicious
casserole. I promise.

PERINO:  I wish I can make a casserole.

ARROYO:  Peace at the table.

PERINO:  I'm kind of hopeless. But I love the idea of seating children in
between people. It's great. Raymond, happy Thanksgiving to you.

ARROYO:  It is a good strategy. Happy Thanksgiving to you.

PERINO:  Thank you.

ARROYO:  Thank you, Dana.

PERINO:  And you can also catch Raymond later tonight on the Ingraham
Angle. Up next, a story of true American patriotism. You'll meet a marine
who went above and beyond to help his friends serving in Vietnam bringing
them a little taste of home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO:  Ahead of Thanksgiving we gave thanks to all the men and women who
fight for our nation's freedom. My next guest has an incredible story of
how he showed his gratitude back in the 1960s while protest flooded the
streets of the Vietnam War.

The marine veteran, Chick Donohue had the idea of going overseas to give
his friends in the service some moral support and a much-needed beer. The
journey to get there was one he will never forget.

And when he arrived, the colonel who never drink on the job poured a drink
and cheer to Chick who, quote, "brought our boys beer, respect, pride and
love."

Joining me now is John 'Chick' Donohue, the author of "The Greatest Beer
Run Ever." And Chick, I have to say, this story completely blew me away.
How in the world did you get in your head to put a bunch of beer and a
duffel bag and get yourself to Vietnam?

JOHN 'CHICK' DONOHUE, AUTHOR, THE GREATEST BEER RUN EVER:  Well, to tell
you the truth, it was like a dare. We had lost 26 guys in my neighborhood
up in the Inwood section of Manhattan. Somebody suggested it was the
(Inaudible) actually that I should go or somebody should go over there. I
was (Inaudible) qualified should go over there and bring them a beer and
tell them that we supported them, and pat them on the back and thank them.
So that's what I did.

PERINO:  How did you figure out getting a job that helps you get to travel
to get there?

DONOHUE:  Well I was a merchant seaman at the time. I've been out of the
marine corps a couple of years. And I was sailing ships. I knew I was
qualified. I had been there twice before on ships so I knew I'd just go
down to union hall, find the ship, wait for a ship that the men I knew was
going to Vietnam and get on it, if I got off it, if I could not get off of
it, if I could find them, that's great, but I had to try. So that's what I
did to.

PERINO:  How did you feel when you saw the living conditions of your
friends and the people who were fighting for us were living in?

DONOHUE:  Well, I really didn't expect to be out in the field. The guys I
found were all out in the field. Nobody was living in. They were living out
in the field. So, I didn't see any living conditions, a hole in the ground
or a tent, a hooch, that was it.

PERINO:  I bet that when they saw you, they're excited for the beer, no
doubt. What finally got you to write the story down?

DONOHUE:  Well, I'd come home and like a lot of guys that came back from
the war, most guys that seek combat and not sitting in a pub telling their
stories about combat. But I wasn't a veteran like that so I told the story
and nobody believed me. And I couldn't actually call them up and tell them
to get down to pub and vouch for me.

So, I had to wait 47 years before somebody suggested, Chick, you should
write a book about this. This is a great story. So, it was only after 47
years that those guys really talk to me about it and agreed to cooperate
with me and my coauthor to Joana Molloy to write a book.

PERINO:  It's been quite a year this 2020. What are you thankful for as we
head to Thanksgiving and any words of encouragement to people who are
struggling right now?

DONOHUE:  Well, the country was in a similar situation, different
circumstances, but split right down the middle in '67. And we eventually
got through it. It wasn't easy then. This has not been easy, but we'll get
through it. This is why our ancestors all came here. This is the place that
you can make it.

PERINO:  And would you encourage young people who were thinking about their
future to consider public service whether it be in the military or
elsewhere?

DONOHUE:  Absolutely, absolutely. I think everybody is obligated to perform
public service. The benefits, they don't necessarily have to go into the
military but I think just like everybody has an obligation to vote. I think
everybody has an obligation, assuming they can, to give public service to
the country.

PERINO:  Well, John 'Chick' Donohue, this book, I'm telling you I'm getting
your book for my husband for Christmas "The Greatest Beer Run Ever." Happy
Thanksgiving to you, sir.

DONOHUE:  Thank you, Dana. Happy Thanksgiving to you.

PERINO:  Thank you so much. And before we go, don't forget to subscribe to
Martha's Untold Story podcast. The latest episode shares an inspiring story
of how a New York City ballet choreographer is bringing the nutcracker to
you this holiday season putting on a live performance at 1,000-acre estate
in New York.

Troy Shoemaker and producer Betsy Dollinger share with Martha the creative
ways that theaters are continuing to perform despite COVID closures. So,
you won't want to miss it. That will feel a little bit like normalcy in a
way.

And that is it for THE STORY on Wednesday, November 25th, 2020. Have a
great Thanksgiving, everyone. Good night.

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