'The Ingraham Angle' on Texas school shooting response

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Ex-FBI official blasts authorities' inaction as Uvalde students frantically called 911

Former assistant Federal Bureau of Investigation director Chris Swecker sounds off Friday on 'The Ingraham Angle' following new developments in Uvalde, Texas.

This is a rush transcript of "The Ingraham Angle" on May 27, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JASON CHAFFETZ, FOX NEWS HOST: I'm Jason Chaffetz, in for Laura Ingraham, and this is a special edition of THE INGRAHAM ANGLE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREG ABBOTT, GOVERNOR, TEXAS: I was misled. I am livid about what happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHAFFETZ: Guess what, governor? So is the rest of the country, and "livid" is an understatement. Tonight, we have a minute-by-minute account of what Texas DPS says really happened during the Uvalde shooting on Tuesday. And, frankly, the more we learn about it, the more enraging it is. It's becoming clear by the second that lives likely could have been saved. And, I can tell you, as a father and a grandfather, my heart breaks for the parents of these victims, I can't even imagine, the ones who will never see their children again, the ones wondering if their son or daughter could have been saved, the ones pleading outside the school for someone, anyone, to do something.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

CHAFFETZ: And then, there is the kids who did survive, like the ones who covered herself in her friend's blood so she could play dead, and the one who called 911 multiple times begging for the police to help. From 11:33 a.m. to nearly 1 p.m., Salvador Ramos was inside that school before being killed by law enforcement.

Joining me now from Uvalde, Texas, is Fox News' Jeff Paul. Jeff, what can you tell us about this latest timeline?

JEFF PAUL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jason, right off the bat, one of the most disturbing elements that we learned today is at 11:27 a.m., a few minutes after the suspect shot his grandmother, a teacher at Robb Elementary School went outside, propped open one of the doors that led to the school, made a phone call and then went back inside and kept the door propped open. A minute later, that is when investigators say the suspect then crashed his truck. From that point on, that's when we believe and investigators believe that the suspect then started shooting at two witnesses at a nearby funeral home, and then made his way towards the school.

A teacher at 11:30 a.m. then called 911. A minute later, a police officer responded to shots being fired, but couldn't see the suspect due to him being crouched behind a car, 11:32, that's when the suspect then started shooting at the school. And, here is where things get a little confusing. The suspect makes his way into the school, getting inside a classroom, and that is where officers say most of the gunfire took place. In those first few minutes, three officers go to the door, but, investigators say are shot at and grazed by bullets. At 12:03, more officers arrive, 19 in total, and spend the next 48 minutes in the hallway until a Border Patrol agent arrives with a master key to get inside.

During those 48 minutes, children are calling 911 from inside the school, begging for police to respond. Investigators say, at that time, the local incident commander believed additional kids were not at risk, a call that Texas DPS investigators say was not the right call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE MCCRAW, TEXAS DPS DIRECTOR: From the benefit of hindsight, where I'm sitting now, of course it was not the right decision. It was a wrong decision, period. There is no excuse for that. But, again, I wasn't there. But, I'm just telling you, from what we know, we believe there should have been an entry at that as soon as you can. Hey, when there is an active shooter, the rules change. It's no longer, OK, it's no longer a barricaded subject. You don't have time. You don't worry about matter perimeters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: And, the hard part to think about is how many kids died in that span of 48 minutes from when those 19 law enforcement officers were in the hallway to the time they got inside the classroom and then shot and killed the suspect? How many died during that period? That is very much still under investigation, Jason.

CHAFFETZ: Jeff, you've been doing some great reporting in a very difficult situation. One of the questions I have is did this school go into lockdown because obviously it wasn't effective with the teacher propping up the door? But, was there ever a lockdown in place?

PAUL: Well, from what we know is that at 11:43 a.m., so it had been several minutes after the suspect crashed his truck and those first shots were being fired at a nearby funeral home, officially, we could see that there was a post on social media from the school saying that they were in lockdown. But, as far as if that went out to the school prior to that, that's unclear. We could just tell from their social media presence, 11:43, lockdown was issued.

CHAFFETZ: So, so late. Last question for you, Jeff, do we know why this suspect, why he dropped out of school and evidently was not going to graduate?

PAUL: Yes. And, that's one of the things that investigators are looking at, is not only what his behaviors were, but his spending habits, how did he get this money to buy these firearms and all this ammunition as well as the conversations he was having, not just on social media. We made a big point to talk about these messages he sent back and forth with people privately, but also the conversations he had while he was a gamer, playing games online. These are all things investigators are going to be going through, Jason.

CHAFFETZ: Jeff, thank you very much for that reporting. We do appreciate it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You say there were 19 officers gathered in the hallway or somewhere. What efforts were made to try and break through that door? You say it was locked. What efforts were the officers making to try and break through either that door or another door to get inside that classroom?

MCCRAW: None at that time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first call came in inside the classroom at 12:03 and you breached it at 12:51, how many students died in those 48 minutes?

MCCRAW: I don't have that answer. We are looking into that right now.

(END VIDE CLIP)

CHAFFETZ: Joining me now is Chris Swecker, former Assistant FBI Director, and Ashton Packe. He is a retired Sergeant for the Los Angeles Police Department. He was also one of the responders to the 2017 mass shooting at the Los Angeles - or Las Vegas concert. Chris, I want to start with you. Evidently, no efforts were made to open that door early on in the process, and we have no idea how many lives could have been saved during that time. You're a professional. You study this. You've trained for this. What's your reaction?

CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER ASSISTANT FBI DIRECTOR: Yes. I mean, a lot of things went wrong here right from the very beginning. The security at the school, all kinds of different security flaws there. If they had their procedures in place, they certainly didn't practice them. So, that's the first line of defense. The responses is a different matter. As we now know in listening to Steve McCraw, Colonel McCraw, do his press conference, as we now know, they gathered, two officers went down, outside the door, 19 officers gathered outside, and a decision was made to wait.

Now, what we don't know is whether they were in touch with dispatch, the 911 Center, because if they were aware that these people from inside the - children were calling from inside that room, then there is absolutely no excuse. It should have been the Charge of the Light Brigade. They should have just kept on going until they neutralize that shooter, because you know there are survivors inside and he is still in there. It was sporadic shooting. So, you hate to make harsh judgments.

But, I think Steve McCraw laid it on the line today. I know him and he has great integrity. Note also that DPS was not the responding agency. They are the investigating agency. So, they only - they took what they were told, and then ran with that for a couple of days. I think, finally, after two days, the truth comes out. So, a lot of things went wrong here. But, clearly, they should have gone in.

CHAFFETZ: Sergeant Packe, you've had a long career. You studied and looked at these things as one of the most terrific shootings we've ever had in this country. But, as you see it unfolding and the limited information that you have, what's your reaction?

SGT. ASHTON PACKE (RET), FORMER LAS VEGAS POLICE OFFICER: Well, thank you for having me, and I agree with a special agent. And, honestly, I want everyone to look at this through two lenses. Don't paint all law enforcement with a broad brush right now. There are heroes in that community, heroes in that police department, who rushed to gunfire and rushed in to try and save lives.

Now, I think, ultimately, what we need to find out is what were - what was the ideas and the thoughts behind the decision of the incident commander on the scene to treat this as a hostage situation? It's best practices in our country, and we train in law enforcement, and I trained. When I was a police officer, the officers under my purview that anyone who is showing homicidal intent, especially on the hallowed ground that our schools here in this country and our children being our most precious resource that we have, we have to rush in and we have to assume that deadly force may be warranted. We can't treat this as a hostage situation.

He was showing murderous intent. It was very evident from the shots he fired at the two folks who were working at, I believe, a cemetery or a funeral home. There was a collapse, a breakdown of this school being secured, and leaving a door open, how heartbreaking that is. It's something we've all done. But, as school employees, people who are trained and to safeguard our children, this is something that we absolutely have to think about of - it's just a simple act of locking a door and having the entire campus on a--

CHAFFETZ: Yes.

PACKE: --lockdown. The minute anything blips that radar outside that, that could be an armed assailant.

CHAFFETZ: Chris, I mean, obviously, the communication will be something they can go back, and they'll have some forensics on that. And, the ability to communicate with 19 officers inside, which was new information, which we didn't hear before, and the idea that a teacher left the door open, and there is a school lockdown in place, I mean, at what point do you just say, my goodness, we - this could have been prevented?

SWECKER: Yes. It was preventable. I mean, I do school security assessments, and I see this a lot where they understand the rules. They're on the books. The protocols are there. They're in a book, sitting and gathering dust on the corner of the desk. But, nobody actually puts them in practice. And, you see time and time again that teachers will prop doors open. And, all I can say is you have to trust but verify. In this situation, someone has to come around and do a periodic assessment of the school security.

I think there is only a middle school, a high school and an elementary school in the county. And, I don't think it's a whole lot to ask that someone come around periodically and do a third-party assessment to make sure that they're following their own protocols because it was in the books to keep everything locked, one point of entry during school hours, how to lock things down when there is trouble, how to communicate the lockdown, which is always the problem, How do you communicate the lockdown?

CHAFFETZ: Yes.

SWECKER: One teacher knows to do it, but how do you get everybody knowing what to do? So, I can't tell you how many breakdowns there were on the front end of this. Now, law enforcement has got to come in and clean up the mess.

CHAFFETZ: Chris and Ashton, thank you for your service in law enforcement and your professionalism, and thanks for joining us on THE INGRAHAM ANGLE tonight. We do appreciate it.

We are rapidly learning more about the suspect from his own family members. His father, also named Salvador Ramos, told The Daily Beast, his son had grown frustrated with his COVID precautions about a month ago and has since refused to speak or see him. He also said "my mom tells me he probably would have shot me too because he would have always say I don't love him". The suspect's mother Adriana Reyes is telling ABC news that her son "can be aggressive if he really got mad". Ramos had been living with his grandparents, reportedly since March. It is the same home where he shot his grandmother in the face right before his deadly assault at the school.

My next guest, Ali Bradley, spoke with his grandfather.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROLANDO REYES, GRANDFATHER OF SALVADOR RAMOS, SUSPECT IN THE TEXAS SCHOOL SHOOTING: There is blood all over. And, I don't know he shot her from here to there.

ALI BRADLEY, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST: Oh, well, because it is.

REYES: --or maybe from there, because there was a pool of blood here.

BRADLEY: Really, and you had to clean it up?

REYES: My sister and this friend of mine, her cousin cleaned it up.

BRADLEY: Wait. So, this is all from--

REYES: Some other scare or whatever.

BRADLEY: Oh, my Gosh. Look at Roman (ph). It's all the way up here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHAFFETZ: Independent journalist Ali Bradley joins me now. Ali, you've been inside the house. What can you tell us about the living situation?

BRADLEY: Yes, Jason. So, as you mentioned, he'd only been living with his grandparents periodically since March, and in part because the grandfather tells me that they had another home that they were paying for the mother and his grandson to live in. But, he said that drugs started moving throughout that home. She had a man move in about a year ago. And, they said that that was against the rules that for the grandparents - for her to live there, she cannot have men in that home. So, it kind of started some contention among them.

Now, again, he moved in with his grandparents not long ago, and he was sleeping on the floor while he was staying there. There were two bedrooms there. But, the grandfather tells me that the wife and him stayed in separate rooms at night. Now, when he would wake up in the morning, he would tell the gunman here to go into the bedroom and sleep. And so, he - we saw this kind of in this setting, and it was - sitting there and listening to the grandfather talk about it, was just really, really unsettling in the sense that it still hadn't really fully hit him until two days ago at noon. So, a full 24 hours had passed. And, he finally started kind of processing things.

But, take a listen to what he had to say when he was talking about the relationship and what was going on in that house that the mother was living in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRADLEY: There was some kind of drug activity going on between them,--

(CROSSTALK)

BRADLEY: --between the boyfriend and the daughter.

REYES: Yes. That's what they say.

BADLEY: OK, and what about your grandson? Was he involved in anything?

REYES: He was no drug. He didn't take drugs or nothing.

BRADLEY: Nothing you knew of.

REYES: No. He didn't take drugs.

BRADLEY: How do you know if he last didn't really communicate much?

REYES: But, I know he didn't take drugs.

BRADLEY: OK.

REYES: I know he didn't - he would - he was staying there all day. And, he would lay there. He wasn't - you can tell when a person is on drugs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRADLEY: Now, Jason, he also tells me that he was supposed to teach his grandson how to drive. He never did. We know that the 18-year-old never got his license. And, I asked him why didn't he teach him how to drive, and he said, well, he wasn't making progress. He needed to see him doing something. But, he was just laying there. He quit his job a month ago, as we know. And so, he just didn't feel like he really deserved to learn how to drive. And, we know that that was the vehicle of his grandfather's that he ended up driving and ultimately crashing here, just near that elementary school.

CHAFFETZ: Ali, he had a considerable amount of weaponry. He had a gun, obviously. And, he had a lot of ammunition. That takes both some expertise. It takes money and he needs a place to store it. Do you have any insight into those three things?

BRADLEY: So, I did ask his grandfather that I said, were there guns here? And, he said absolutely not. He was adamant that they were not at his house, in part, because the grandfather actually spent some time in prison for drug-related charges, many years ago, well before his grandson was born. But, he didn't say if there were guns in his midst at all. If he was caught with guns, he would go back to prison for 10 to 15 years. So, he was adamant that they were not there. Now, I did ask him, could he have hidden them in the yard somewhere? Could they have been at the mother's house, which again, was nearby? Now, he said he didn't know. And, he was very disappointed that he didn't know more. He said maybe he should have paid more attention. And, he also mentioned to me that maybe his grandson should have talked with someone.

CHAFFETZ: Now, Ali, last quick question. You were able to get in and speak with them. Had law enforcement had any conversation with the grandfather at that point?

BRADLEY: He didn't really tell me if he had had many conversations with law enforcement. He said he had a brief conversation, but he didn't know anything at that point. A lot of the things that he was talking about the guns, when they were bought, he said that's what they told me. That's what police told me. So, we didn't have a really - it didn't sound like he had a full on interview at that point. But, when they did go to his house, and he said that when they went there they ransacked it. He said he turned everything upside down. He tells me he was not there when that was happening.

CHAFFETZ: Interesting. Ali, thank you for the great reporting, we do appreciate it.

What shameful thing did Chuck Schumer do on the Senate floor this week? I'll give you a hint. It could make our kids even less safe at schools. Texas Congresswoman Beth Van Duyne and former Congressman Sean Duffy are here next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHAFFETZ: One day after the shooting in Uvalde that took 21 innocent lives, Chuck Schumer did something pretty despicable on the Senate floor. He blocked the Luke and Alex School Safety Act, named for Luke and Alex, who were both killed in Parkland, Florida. The legislation would require the Department of Homeland Security to establish a "federal clearing house on school safety best practices", and to collect data and user feedback and evaluation of the implementation of those best practices. Is he serious? Who could possibly be opposed to best practices for school security?

Schumer tweeted "The bill put more guns in schools. The truth: There were officers at the school in Texas. The shooter got past them". Actually, the truth, Chuck, is that the resource officer was not there. Not really a best practice. The shooter walked in through an open door, left to open evidently by a teacher.

Joining me now is Texas Congresswoman Beth Van Duyne and Sean Duffy, former Wisconsin Congressman, a former prosecutor, and now a Fox News contributor. Thank you both for joining me. I got to tell you, this thing fires me up. I mean, it's so sad. I can't even imagine the devastation. You are both parents. You got lovely, beautiful families and kids, like I do. But, we're going through this.

So, a bill is on the floor that's been worked on for years since Parkland. Chuck Schumer has a chance to put it up for a vote, unanimous consent, Democrats and Republicans. Let's just establish best practices. And, Chuck Schumer says no, that's not good enough. I don't know how you react to that. But, I am sick and tired of these Democrats lecturing the rest of the country about how they want to do this. And now, all of a sudden, they actually do have something that they can do in a bipartisan way to put forward best practices. Who is against that? Chuck Schumer and the Democrats are against that. That's what's happening.

Congressman Van Duyne, I'll turn it over to you, but I saw that, I'm just so fed up with these Democrats who want the issue. They want a lecture, but they don't actually want to do something that was on the floor of the Senate 24 hours after this shooting.

REP. BETH VAN DUYNE (R-TX): And, something that could have helped. That's the most frustrating part. If you look at all the policies that have been thrown out there, you look at the ones that work, and without a doubt, having school resource officers on campus works. In fact, in 2018 alone, they had three separate shooters in Florida, Maryland and Illinois, that tried to go into a school and have a mass casualty situation. And, each time they had a school resource officer that met with them, almost immediately stopped them in their tracks, disarm them, prevented them from ever having open fire and prevented mass casualties. That works. It's a conversation we have to have.

But, what you're seeing is Democrats are politicizing this once again. It is all about control. It's not about on solutions that work. We've got President Biden who is going on his tirade hours after this killing. And, he is talking about how in his years, his career, he spent with all of these bills on gun control and on gun safety. He has been there for 50 years, folks. He has been there for half a century. This problem has gotten worse. It hasn't gotten better. It's gotten much worse. And, we're sitting here now having to deal with him talk to us, and taking solutions off the table.

But, I do want to have a message to all of those families in Uvalde. You have elected leaders who will fight with you, who will try to help you through this horrible nightmare trauma, and not politicize the soul crushing grief that you're going through now.

CHAFFETZ: Yes. We get criticized sometimes as conservatives for hearts and minds and prayers and all that. And, I - they're so adamant of getting rid of that, but then they have a chance to pass a bipartisan bill. But, what is Senator Ed Markey out of Massachusetts, what does he say? Listen to this tape of Senator Markey, after the shooting down in Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ED MARKEY (D-MA): We have to take very seriously the threat which in illegitimate far right Supreme Court poses to gun safety in our country. We have to expand the Supreme Court to get back the two stolen seats that the Republicans and Donald Trump took from the American people so that we can ensure that when we put gun safety laws on the books, they are not overridden by the Supreme Court of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHAFFETZ: Sean, I'm trying not to swear on this program, and I'm hope you don't either. But, what's your reaction to that?

SEAN DUFFY, FORMER WISCONSIN CONGRESSMAN & FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I just about it. So, what - you lose 19 kids in Uvalde and this is about court packing. I mean, listen Ed Markey, Senator from Massachusetts, the bottom line is the founders put the Second Amendment in the Constitution. And, our Supreme Court is upholding it. But, you know what burns me, Jason, is this is the under - the ugly underbelly of politics. You have a bill on the floor that's bipartisan, that could save kids' lives, best practices, best policies for schools to keep kids safe, and Democrats say no to it.

This is about preserving an election issue for them in November so they could hopefully have a chance at retaining seats they are going to lose, both in the Senate and in the House. Instead of doing that, again, of protecting kids, they want to come up and say no, we're going to preserve the issue. We want to see an issue that we can run on as opposed to saying, Hey, we can come together as America. We can come together as a Congress and pass a legislation that can save lives. And, I think this is what makes people so angry about this issue is--

CHAFFETZ: Yes.

DUFFY: --things can happen. Things can - people can work together and get things done. And, Democrats say no. This is more about politics than kids' lives.

CHAFFETZ: Yes. Unfortunately, we're going into an election year. We're in an election year. And, the Democrats want the issue. They don't want to actually solve it. And, do something in a bipartisan way, best practices. My goodness. Congresswoman Van Duyne, Congressman - former Congressman Sean Duffy, parents and former member - current member of Congress, former member of Congress, thanks for joining us on THE INGRAHAM ANGLE.

DUFFY: Thanks.

CHAFFETZ: All right. Coming up, the real corruption no one is paying attention to. What we now know about the Clinton campaign's involvement in the Russia hoax? Harmeet Dhillon and Brett Tolman, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHAFFETZ: The jury is now deliberating after today's closing arguments in the trial of accused Russia hoax peddler in Hillary Clinton attorney Michael Sussmann. This was the first in special counselor John Durham's probe into the origins of the Trump-Russia investigation. FOX News correspondent David Spunt is here with the details. David?

DAVID SPUNT, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Jurors spent a few hours deliberating today, but we won't have a verdict until at least Tuesday after the holiday weekend when Michael Sussmann is back in court. Former Clinton campaign attorney Michael Sussmann is charged with lying to the FBI, specifically then FBI General Counsel James Baker, when he came to Baker in September, 2016, and said he had some information linking the Trump Organization to a Russian bank called Alpha Bank with Kremlin ties via a computer server backchannel.

Special Counsel John Durham says the lie is when Sussmann told Baker he was delivering information on his own, not on behalf of any clients. Durham argues that Sussmann went on behalf of the Clinton campaign and peddled the story to the media. In closing arguments today, jurors saw billing evidence showing that Sussmann billed the Clinton campaign on the same day he met with the FBI. E-mails between Sussmann and reporters also shown to jurors.

Sussman's team told jurors via a poster board, despite with the government said, this was not a giant political conspiracy theory. The defense accused the government of using smoke and mirrors to distract from the facts. Sussmann attorney Sean Berkowitz told jurors a text message that Sussmann sent Baker the night before that meeting doesn't matter. It's what Sussmann said to Baker Monday at the FBI headquarters, and there are no notes or recordings of that specific in-person meeting. Baker told different people different stories about what Sussmann actually said.

Again, we could have a verdict as soon as Tuesday. Jason?

CHAFFETZ: Thank you, David.

Joining me now is Harmeet Dhillon, attorney and founder of the Center for American Liberty, and Brett Tolman, former federal prosecutor and the executive director of Right On Crime. Brett, I want to go to you. You've been a federal prosecutor. One of the deep concerns about this whole case is the jury. I believe in juries, I liked jury trials, but when you have three of the jurors who donated to Hillary Clinton, one of the jurors is supposedly supportive of the Squad, and yet another juror has a daughter who is on the same sporting team as the defendant's daughter, how do you look at that and say, yes, five of these jurors have ties to the defendant? I just don't understand that.

BRETT TOLMAN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I stood in front of juries that I was nervous about, and it's not a fun feeling. You are worried about individual jurors and what their perspective on the case is given the bias that they come into the jury with.

But I will tell you, the facts here, this is not a complex case. So for this jury to find not guilty, they are going to have to do what's called jury nullification. They're going to have to ignore the facts of the case, which are very simple, and they are upfront, and they're not disputed. and then they're going to have to ignore the law. And if they do use that, then they come back and say not guilty and they did so based on politics and not based on the facts and the law.

So I hope, Jason, that this is not an instance where the prosecutors are sitting there and they regret putting each individual that they did unto the jury, but you can't control it all. You don't have enough challenges to remove everyone you think might have a bias. So you help that in the end, despite those leanings, that they will still do the right thing.

CHAFFETZ: I hope so.

Harmeet, the media has never, ever, the traditional media, institutional media, whatever you want to call it, they still have not done the proper job in covering this story. Here you've got Hillary Clinton's attorney, and you've got, it's a criminal trial. "The Washington Post," for instance, they are still pulling for Hillary Clinton. They wrote, quote, "Perhaps there was a ploy to use contrived information to trigger an FBI investigation of Trump as Durham appears to hope to prove. But crucially, it didn't. Put another way, Hillary Clinton didn't do it," end quote. It was Robby Mook, the campaign manager, who testified that yes, he involved her in this decision.

HARMEET DHILLON, CEO, CENTER FOR AMERICAN LIBERTY: Look, this is one of the biggest hoaxes, between this one and the Steele dossier, the pair of them, ever perpetrated in American political history. And she did it and she got away with it, and it isn't disputed, like Brett said. The only thing that's in dispute here is whether the jury is going to follow the law and follow the facts to their inexorable conclusion, which is that Sussmann lied to the FBI.

But some of the complicating factors here that may interfere with a conviction are, of course, the jury and its bias, although I don't know how you would even seat a jury in D.C. in this type of a case that didn't have donors to Democrats on it.

But more importantly, there is a kind of a quirky issue here, which is the FBI agents who testified were really kind of reluctant witnesses. They didn't want a turnover, Baker didn't want to turn over that text message, that notorious text message that is absolutely damning. And there's a lot of suspicion here that the FBI wanted to be fooled by this story and taken in. They were absolutely willing participants. That's one theory. And if so, that is the where's the beef question that the defense is trying to get the jury to buy, which is, like, so what? So what if he told them this? They were lapping it up anyway, or it didn't make a difference, or they were going to run with it no matter who was presenting it on behalf of what politician.

So I'm kind of cynical. I've also stood in front of juries I feel uncomfortable about. I've tried cases in San Francisco for the pro-life movement. And that's the kind of situation I think that this jury is going to be looking for ways to let these people off.

But ultimately, one of the benefits of this trial may be the public knowing exactly what happened here, Hillary Clinton's involvement, and how potentially --

CHAFFETZ: Hope so, hope so.

DHILLON: -- the FBI was a very willing participant in this --

CHAFFETZ: Harmeet, I've got to go.

DHILLON: -- monumental hoax.

CHAFFETZ: I'm sorry, we've got some hard breaks here. And Harmeet and Brett, we appreciate you joining us.

I want to turn now to something pretty cool, the best ranger competition. It happens every year at Fort Benning, Georgia, and it features the elite of the elite, a grueling event in its 38th year. Teams of two battle nonstop for 64 hours, covering 70 miles of obstacles in an intense warfighting competition. This isn't playing Xbox, folks. FOX Nation was lucky enough to be there for it, and here's a sneak peek.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to Fort Benning, Georgia, where every year U.S. Army units and allied forces send their very best to compete in the longest-running military contest in the United States, the David E. Grange Jr. Best Ranger Competition.

This year FOX Nation has even more coverage for you on the ground, with sideline reports from Abby Hornacek, Joey Jones, and yours truly as 102 soldiers battle it out, performing grueling physical and mental tasks that simulate battlefield conditions until each member of one two-person team will be able to call themselves America's top rangers.

Known as the eliminator, the mile-long course tests the limits of ranger candidates' strength and endurance. On the commanders go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five, four, three, two, one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Teams must race down the hill and barrel over the first wall.

SSG JOSHUA ABRAHANTE: That hill, going down it at full speed and then trying to come up it at full speed while you're also tired from all the events throughout the day, it's not a good time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every obstacle must be completed, and the teams must stay together across the course. No team member can move forward until his buddy has completed the obstacle.

ABRAHANTE: Some of the obstacles are harder than usual because everything is gassed. All your muscles are thrown out the window. All technique is thrown out the window and you're just trying to navigate the obstacle as fast as possible.

LT. JOHN GREER: You need group strength and you need agility, and you need teamwork, because by myself I would not be able to get through that obstacle.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

CHAFFETZ: If you want to see more, watch FOX News at 10:00 p.m. this Sunday. Plus, you can catch the entire series on FOX Nation starting on Monday.

Next, Elon Musk says he is voting Republican for the very first time ever, partly because of the left's censorship reflex. Laura talks to one doctor who says he's in the same boat. Now the left is driving people away from his own party, right after this.

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LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: You might have heard by now that Elon Musk is going to vote Republican for the first time, saying that Democrats have become the party of division and hate. He's not alone. My next guest say Democrats aggressive affinity for censoring debate and strong-arming doctors is making many doctors rethink their political allegiance.

Joining me now is Dr. Pierre Kory of the Frontline COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance. Dr. Kory, good to see you tonight. What specifically about many of the crazy things that have happened over the two plus years has pushed you to the edge here?

DR. PIERRE KORY, VOTING REPUBLICAN FOR FIRST TIME: Well, you know, it seems like politics is entering medicine, and it really doesn't have to be this way, and it shouldn't be this way. Science should not be involved in politics. And I'm seeing these divisions breaking out in medicine that seems to me influenced by political allegiances. And I'm not for that.

But when you look at some of the things that have been going on, we are literally talking about disinformation boards and people going after my medical license because my scientific opinions are different from theirs, and there is this single truth. It's extremely dystopian, and I find it really disorienting. And it's bad for medicine, it's bad for patients. And the lack of self-awareness of really what I'm seeing now from the left and the left-leaning media, they are abandoning their principles. I used to be for free expression, free speech, and really questioning authority. And now they are the authoritarians. And so like Elon, I'm very disoriented by it.

INGRAHAM: Dr. Fauci spoke at Princeton this week, Dr. Kory. Watch.

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DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER: Elements of our society have grown increasingly inured to a cacophony of falsehoods and lies that often stand largely unchallenged, ominously leading to an insidious acceptance of what I call the normalization of untruths.

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INGRAHAM: Dr. Kory, the normalization of untruths, he is probably talking about folks like you and others who question the wisdom of some of their early responses. Your response to that?

KORY: This is clearly an example of him accusing others for what he himself is doing. There is no untruth. We are transparent with our data, with our assessment of the data. When you talk about lies -- this is absurd. This is the same guy who says he is science, and now he's effectively saying he is truth. You're talking about a minister of truth now. Again, I go back to the same thing. This is absolutely dystopian. The lack of self-awareness of others to see what's going on, you have this man up there declaring that his truth is the only truth. It's absolutely bizarre. He's unwilling to debate. He doesn't use data. He uses manipulated data. It's actually terrifying.

INGRAHAM: He's very careful the way he words things. When he was questioned early on about natural immunity, acquired immunity from having gotten the virus if you were not vaccinated, he's like, well, we are studying that. He's a pretty smart guy. He knows basic immunology, the course of most viruses. Obviously, this is a funky virus because of the way it came about, but he's always very kind of cool catty how he deals with those kinds of questions, because I think he knows that they kind of botched that big time.

KORY: Absolutely. If you see how his opinions have shifted over time, and that goes back to my point. We need open, honest scientific transparent debates. That's how science advances. This is so bad for patients, for one person sitting atop of the federal government health agencies telling us what is true, and we're not allowed to debate that or question that? And that's not how medicine advances. That's not how we discover how to help patients. It's absolutely going to hurt medicine if he keeps doing this. And it has to stop.

INGRAHAM: Like vitamin d3, all these things that early on could've helped patients. Everyone is pretty much vitamin d deficient, especially early on we saw that. Never any discussion about that or zinc or a lot of other things.

Doctor, according to Pfizer, we have to get to this, three doses of its vaccine was found to be 80 percent effective in preventing symptomatic COVID in children ages six months to six years old. What does that actually mean given how little threat to children COVID is?

KORY: I'm sorry to sound so cynical, but it means that they cannot find enough people to vaccinate. And now they're going after toddlers. And they are trying to vaccinate, or offer vaccinations to young people who do not have severe outcomes. No healthy young child has died. Number two, we have effective early treatments. Number three, these vaccines wane in efficacy within months and we know that. You cannot keep vaccinating a young person throughout their life every six months. Even that article itself had three shots. I don't know what parent would put their child into an experimental gene therapy and offer them three shots of this vaccine for a disease that's not deadly.

Laura, that's not even mentioning the unprecedented adverse events of toxicities of these vaccines. So the idea that that is actually credibly being entertained --

INGRAHAM: That's terrifying.

KORY: -- that we would vaccinate a six month to a four-year-old.

INGRAHAM: No, terrifying.

KORY: Unbelievable.

INGRAHAM: Dr. Kory, we appreciate your courage in speaking out on all these issues, and we will check back with you soon. Thanks so much.

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CHAFFETZ: Final thoughts when we return.

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CHAFFETZ: Thank you for watching tonight. I'm Jason Chaffetz in for Laura Ingraham. Thanks to Laura for sitting me in this seat. Not many people get to do it, but she lets me. Thank you.

Think of Memorial Day, think of the millions of people who sacrifice their lives for this country. And remember, not just on Fourth of July, not just on Memorial Day, remember it on Monday and every day.

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