How the Clinton campaign responds to scandal
'MediaBuzz' host Howard Kurtz and Fox News digital politics editor Chris Stirewalt weigh in on 'The Kelly File'
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," July 6, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight just over 24 hours after the director of the FBI recommended no criminal charges for Hillary Clinton and the U.S. Attorney General declares that the investigation into Mrs. Clinton's e-mails is officially over. But Congress says not so fast, demanding that both James Comey and Loretta Lynch step forward and answer questions.
Good evening, and welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Tomorrow we will see the first of two high profile hearings as a Republican-led Congress demands to know how an FBI investigation can find Secretary Clinton did so much wrong in the handling of top secret information but does not qualify for prosecution. But even before the questions begin, team Clinton is dismissing this as a partisan attack. Echoing some of the same arguments we have seen for nearly a year and a half now. It was 16 months ago when Hillary Clinton held her most extensive press conference to date on the controversy surrounding her use of a private offsite e-mail server while she was at the State Department. As we showed you last night, many of the claims Mrs. Clinton made during that presser were contradicted in stunning fashion by the FBI. At the start of that news conference, Mrs. Clinton painted herself at the time as a cooperative partner with investigators.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: My direction to conduct the thorough investigation was to err on the side of providing anything that could be possibly viewed as work related. That is the responsibility of the individual, and I have fulfilled that responsibility, and I have no doubts that we've done exactly what we should have done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: You know, Phil Houston, he says it's not only not making eye contact, but when you say I have fulfilled that obligation, that is what they call a tell, right? I have fulfilled the obligation. Right? Mrs. Clinton's surrogates and even her husband derided those who doubted her claims like the one you just saw right there as part of a right wing conspiracy against her. Similar tactics the Clintons used throughout the '80s and '90s.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is all this part of a vast right wing conspiracy then, is it just the same old, same old?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it's just mostly stupid media people talking, other stupid media people making stuff up and spinning themselves up on something that's not going to amount to a hill of bean.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Republicans are trying to take this fact finding expedition into a partisan exercise meant to hurt Hillary Clinton's campaign.
BILL CLINTON, 42ND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This e-mail thing became the biggest story in the world. I have never seen so much expended on so little.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Stupid media people are to blame. Right? Then Mrs. Clinton and her campaign shifted towards downplaying the matter altogether, noting past State Department's use of similar practices according to her, even adding what we now know to be a misleading statement about retroactive classification.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: It was not prohibited, it was not in any way disallowed, and as I've said and as now has come out, my predecessors did the same thing, and many other people in the government.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We find ourselves in the same situation as Colin Powell and Condi Rice's top aides and having e-mails retroactively classified. And as Colin Powell said to some extent, this is an absurdity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: An absurdity. An absurdity, except the FBI director said everything she said in that sound bite was not true. Two months later when a State Department inspector general's report sharply criticized Mrs. Clinton's e-mail practices, team Clinton again said it was not her fault, but the fault of practices already in place there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think a big reason why the report finds that it was unacceptable and fell short for her to be using this habit of copying her aides on her correspondence was because it turned out that the record keeping in place at the State Department was so poor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Remember, Director Comey said that should never have been the case and said that, quote, "none of these e-mails should have been on any kind of unclassified system and that she should have known that." Well, the next day Hillary Clinton offered an apology of sorts but again claimed this was common practice as she saw it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: This report makes clear that personal e-mail use was the practice for other secretaries of state, and I know that because it is well known, it's pointed out in the report. But it was still a mistake, and as I've said many times, if I could go back, I would do it differently.
KELLY: It was still a mistake. Right? It took a lot to get her to say it was a mistake. For weeks she didn't say that, then she finally said it was a mistake. After it was announced that Director Comey would not recommend charges against Mrs. Clinton, despite a devastating rebuttal of her many claims from that March 10th presser, her supporters said time to move on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The most important thing that happened today was Hillary Clinton moved past a legal cloud and that gives her and the voters the chance to say could we talk about the instances that matter to the voters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Like honesty? That is something that matters, maybe, I don't know. Then yesterday when it was announced that the House GOP wanted to hold a hearing to examine Mr. Comey's findings, the campaign came full circle, again reverting back to charges of a partisan witch-hunt with National Spokesman Brian Fallon tweeting, Benghazi Committee probe ended with partisan thud, so, of course, House GOP wants to launch new goose chase." This time about Comey and emails.
Joining me now to discuss it all. Chris Stirewalt, our Fox News digital politics editor and Howie Kurtz, host of "MediaBuzz." I should have gotten Phil Houston. No offense, we needed this spy guy, he ran the CIA's interrogation program for 25 years. And you know, it's just, you know, it's just a tell you have to look for clusters, it's a long story, you should buy his book, "buy the lie." Stirewalt --
(LAUGHTER)
CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: I'm not offended at all by what he did.
KELLY: I'll just start with this, it's actually not -- the two points that we made in the intro are not inconsistent. She could have been misleading.
STIREWALT: Right.
KELLY: And she could have been caught by Director Comey misleading.
STIREWALT: Right.
KELLY: And Brian Fallon might be right, as well, it's a partisan witch- hunt.
STIREWALT: Yes.
KELLY: What's your view?
STIREWALT: Look, the Republicans want hearings because they want to keep talking about this, and so is it partisan? Sure. The -- that's why we have a partisan system, we have a competition. Why did Democrats go after George W. Bush in a way that they didn't go after Bill Clinton? Because he was a Republican. That's a rigged system --
KELLY: To call Director Comey before, it's like it's suggesting they don't trust Director Comey. I mean, for weeks they'd been saying that they trust him, he's a straight shooter, they are going to trust his recommendation, and now it's not to their liking. It's like bring him to poor Congress.
STIREWALT: Well, it's something to do and we know how this movie usually ends. It usually ends with the Republicans to do what they do, Clinton and the press. And again you mentioned to the 1980s, this is the playbook, this is always how it goes.
KELLY: Walk us through it.
STIREWALT: You start out, you deny. Was not me, I was not there, I didn't sell the pardon, I didn't have sex with her, I didn't -- whatever it is, this did not happen. And then incontrovertible evidence is put up your snout and you go, well, something happened, sorry. Little bit. And then you do the modified limited hang out, you back it down, you knock it down a little bit, but all the while you attack your accuser and destroy your accuser so that by the time you get to the end people say can't we just move on.
KELLY: It's old news.
STIREWALT: Move on.
KELLY: That is something the American people care about Howie Kurtz.
HOWIE KURTZ, HOST, "MEDIA BUZZ": Exactly.
KELLY: I mean, look, they may or may not care about Hillary Clinton lying, they may or may not care about her e-mails, but dishonesty is something we poll about after every primary. At least the pollsters still believe it matters. You know, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but move on. People don't care is her position now.
KURTZ: Well, speaking on behalf of stupid media people, when I covered the Clinton White House scandals, there was this playbook, as Chris said, and it was more than just deny and delay. It was also stiffing the press by saying there was an ongoing investigation so we can't talk about it. Only the media cares, the public doesn't care. You can give an answer to when you have to. And then when the probe is over, declare the story to be old news and then try to discredit your adversaries as partisan and then continue to avoid the press.
KELLY: Right.
KURTZ: Hillary Clinton, as you know, has not held a news conference this year, and yet -- and I see no sign that she's about to do so as these questions build up about her voracity. She should welcome an opportunity to talk about this, because otherwise it will just be the Republicans talking about it.
KELLY: They came out there and said, oh anything that -- first she said there was no classified information, which was not true. And then she comes out and says, well, anything that was classified was classified only retroactively so I didn't know at the time. And when people said, that's not true, the reports we're getting is that, you knew it was classified. John Podesta, you know, her senior campaign guy come out there and says, that's an absurdity. Anybody who questions her, you know, that she did something different than Colin Powell, that's an absurdity. Well, not according to the director of the FBI, and now we're told, would you just move on you partisan witch-hunt people? Stirewalt.
(LAUGHTER)
STIREWALT: You know, you partisan witch-hunt people, rotten. The problem for Republicans, and I think you put it together right there, which is, you say if you discredit Comey and this investigation, you discredit Comey and his findings that she engaged in heinous, beyond heinous electronic hygiene and she took these risks and she did all that stuff. So you can't say this is all wrong, Comey's all wet, which if you want to keep the part of Comey that's helpful for Republicans, you can only go so far in discrediting him and the thing they are going to be asking him about is, are you pressured, were you pressured? I think it's highly unlikely that he's going to sit in front of Congress and say, now that you guys mention it, this is all a fraud.
KELLY: Yes. Good luck. Good luck trying to make Director Comey sweat. We'll report back to you tomorrow night. Guys, good to see you both.
STIREWALT: You bet.
KURTZ: Thanks, Megyn.
KELLY: Joining us now, Mo Elleithee, he's the former traveling press secretary for Hillary Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign. Mo, good to see you. So --
MO ELLEITHEE, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Hey.
KELLY: Let's put the Comey thing to the side for a minute, right, because I heard all of the people say straight shooter, you can trust him, we're going to go with what he said. Now they don't like the unconclusionist (ph), you will appear, people are saying he's got to step down.
ELLEITHEE: Why? What's wrong with that guy?
KELLY: Okay?
ELLEITHEE: Right. Yes.
KELLY: But, you know, he did start off by saying, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, and to look back at how her campaign and her surrogates like Hillary Rosen spun it, you know, even today, move on, you know, people don't care, it's offensive. Does it offend you on any level?
ELLEITHEE: You know, this is one of those situations where, look, you know, full disclosure, you've said it, I used to work for her and I'm a fan of hers, but look, this is one of those cases where I actually wish both sides were just a little better right now. I think the Republicans are just there -- the way they are going after it, I get it, we're in the middle of an election season, they don't like her, they made that very clear, this also gives them something than Donald Trump to talk about, which they desperately want and need right now, but as we talked about, they are stepping on their own message.
KELLY: Because it gives her the chance to play the victim. I mean, it gives her the chance to come out, you know, through herself or through surrogates to say, wow, really? You know, the FBI, which reportedly had dozens of agents looking into this has reached its conclusion. Now we need to go through another, what, you know, 16-hour hearing with her. It's like why don't they just, you know, sort of take what Comey gave them and make the most of it?
ELLEITHEE: I think you make this as campaign issue if they want and leave it to the voters to decide at the ballot box. Now, here's where I wish the Clinton campaign would maybe do it just a little bit differently. She has admitted that she made a mistake. She has admitted very recently that she has work to do when it comes to the trust question that people don't trust her, and she acknowledges that. Now, this is actually -- could be an opportunity for her.
She could step out there right now and say, look, the FBI said there was nothing illegal that happened, but that we made a lot of mistakes. You know what, they are right. I've said it, I will say it again, we have made a lot of mistakes, and I can't regret that enough.
KELLY: Right.
ELLEITHEE: Here's what as president I would do moving forward to make sure no one makes those mistakes ever again.
KELLY: Right. A full throated apology and something that shows she really believes she made a mistake and proves it to the American people.
ELLEITHEE: And learns and grew from that experience, which Donald Trump can't do.
KELLY: Right. It was an opportunity, we'll look forward to hearing from her sometime in the next seven months, that's how long it's been. So, maybe we'll have to travel to wherever she is and shout some questions so we can actually get answers to some of these legitimate questions. Mo, always a pleasure, sir.
ELLEITHEE: Thanks.
KELLY: That's going to happen. So, with these hearings 12 hours away, one of the top national security lawyers in this country, I think he is the top, is with us tonight on whether the FBI probe could pose serious issues for some of Mrs. Clinton's top aides. This is an interesting angle not being covered.
Plus, Dana Perino is next on what she had to go through in the Bush White House to make sure the nation's secrets were kept safe. She made news tonight for an epic twitter rant. And we'll talk about it. Oh, yes, they like that, they like that. (APPLAUSE)
(LAUGHTER)
And then we have new video in a confrontation now getting national attention after police shoot a black man in a struggle. Reverend Jesse Jackson is here, along with Detective Mark Fuhrman. Stay tuned for that.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I demand for the chief to be fired immediately! I demand that he resign if he has the guts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: In just hours, the director of the FBI will testify in front of a House Oversight Committee for a, quote, "Emergency hearing on the bureau's investigation into Hillary Clinton." Next week lawmakers will be grilling Attorney General Loretta Lynch who announced this evening that she, too, has decided that she will not bring any charges in this case. But before either of these hearings were confirmed, House Speaker Paul Ryan was telling "The Kelly File" that now is the time for Hillary to bear the consequences of what even the FBI called reckless actions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PAUL RYAN, R-WIS., SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I think the DNI, the Director of National Intelligence should block her access to classified information given how recklessly she handled this during the presidential campaign. If she becomes president, that's one thing, but I don't think she should get classified information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: National Security lawyer Mark Zaid and Dana Perino is also here, they'll both be with us in a moment.
But first we go to our chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge with more. Catherine?
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, after the House Speaker told you Hillary Clinton's access to classified information should be blocked, today the White House responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, PRESS WHITE HOUSE SECRETARY: When we're talking about the safety and security of classified information, we should leave those decisions in the hands of our intelligence professionals and not risk them being sullied by the --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: The FBI director was silent Tuesday on the Clinton aides, but said most government employees guilty of similar behavior would be punished, typically includes losing their security clearance and the possibility of future government employment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: Those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions, but that's not what we're deciding now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: The House and Senate Judiciary Committees want the FBI director to also explain how the investigators findings back up his decision not to recommend criminal charges and there are new questions tonight whether Clinton misled Congress last year about the deletion of her e-mails. And this exchange with Republican Congressman Jim Jordan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OHIO: I'm asking how it was done. Did someone physically look at the 62,000 e-mails, or did you use search terms, date parameters? I want to know the specifics.
CLINTON: The search terms were everything you could imagine that might be related to anything, but they also went through every single e-mail.
COMEY: Lawyers doing the sorting for Secretary Clinton in 2014 did not individually read the content of all of her e-mails as we did for those available to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: That's one of the issues we expect to hear a lot more about tomorrow -- Megyn.
KELLY: Catherine Herridge, thank you.
Joining me now with reaction, Mark Zaid, a national security lawyer out of D.C. Mark, thank you for being here. So, you represent people who get caught in these situations and actually you say you have real concerns about what's going to happen to Hillary Clinton's aides, like her top aide Huma Abedin or Jake Sullivan, if she wins and goes to the White House. Explain.
MARK ZAID, NATIONAL SECURITY LAWYER: Well, yes, I handle these cases all the time for the last 20 years trying to help people dealing with clearance issues. And, I mean, Director Comey really said it for us, he indicated that they were grossly careless and while it didn't rise to the level of prosecution, it very clearly, I think from his words, and that was an unprecedented press conference, created some very serious concerns in his mind. Now, they go through, including Secretary Clinton, go through the same vetting that individuals such as I do for security clearances, and one of the issues to look at is whether or not they have security violations, and very clearly they do.
KELLY: How could they deny Huma Abedin or Jake Sullivan this, you know, this access when Hillary Clinton was the secretary of state and if she becomes the president, of course she's going to have it. So, how do you know, you sort of kill the underling when the principal is getting the access?
ZAID: Yes. Look, this is a very unique situation. I don't know of any other situation that one can even compare. I mean, there was a situation, I think, with Secretary of State Baker in the early '80s when polygraph issues, it was sort of a clearance issue, one of his secretaries failed the polygraph and he abolished the polygraph at the State Department still doesn't exist except in certain circumstances. I mean, the president of the United States generally never gets involved in these types of decisions. I don't think if Hillary Clinton won that she would either, I would hope. But you know, then again, you know, there are professionals that will adjudicate these individual's clearances at each of the agencies, and they could be denied access to staff programs or S.C.I. programs or even --
KELLY: That's the super-secret stuff.
ZAID: Yes. Or even a clearance.
KELLY: Before we go, I need a quick answer on this. Do you think it's the right decision to call Comey before Congress?
ZAID: No, I don't. First of all, as you mentioned in you prior segment, he's a very seasoned prosecutor. This was such an unprecedented press conference, I don't think he's going to go into any detail beyond it. He can't set a precedent for the FBI, and where is it going to go? I mean, what do they think anyone is going to say? I think the big loser that is going to come out of tomorrow, were going to be both parties. Because, you know, the Republicans are going to attack him and the Democrats are going to attack him and everybody is going to look bad. And, you know, we'll see how he ends up. Maybe he'll look the best out of everybody.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Mark Zaid, great to see you.
ZAID: My pleasure. Any time.
KELLY: Well, as both sides dig in on the significance of this FBI report, former White House Press Secretary Dana Perino took to social media today to write about her experience protecting the nation's secrets when she worked in the west wing. Getting attention when she suggested that Hillary Clinton not only put the White House at risk, but also endangered the legacy of her own boss and the security of this country.
Dana Perino is with me now, co-host of "THE FIVE," former press secretary for President Bush. Good to see you.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST, "THE FIVE": Thank you.
KELLY: So, you were uncharacteristically ticked off today.
PERINO: Well, and I had Wi-Fi on the plane.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: So, what it is that's most irking you?
PERINO: Well, it's just that I think that having a security clearance is such a privilege. You are entrusted with the nation's secrets. This isn't about you. When you work for the federal government, and especially at the White House at her level, you work on behalf of the people. And so it wasn't that she was just trying to protect herself politically for convenience, she was putting the nation at risk. She was putting her boss President Obama at risk, and it was just an extremely dishonorable thing to do.
KELLY: What does that show -- what does that show you about her?
PERINO: I think that the Republicans' best argument is that the Clintons, especially Hillary Clinton, have always believed that they are above the law, that the law doesn't apply to me. I would have been stripped of my security clearance like that, but I never would have done that because I cared too much about the job that I had --
KELLY: It's that big of deal in other words, when you get that security clearance, you start handling confidential classified documents, it's a huge deal.
PERINO: It's on your mind all the time. And people would ask me when you're at the podium and you get a question from the press, and you have classified information in your head, how do you avoid talking about it? And I said, oh, I have a steel box in my head.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
PERINO: There's classified information in there that no one is ever going to get to, even to this day.
KELLY: Uh-hm. What do you make of what's happening tomorrow and what the Republican -- I mean, are they overplaying their hand?
PERINO: Yes in a way, but I understand also why they have to do it. I think the whole reason we know about this e-mail situation is because of the Benghazi Committee that Congressman Trey Gowdy put forward. That is the whole reason we found out about the private server. So, there is a reason for Congress to have a chance to ask questions. I hope they don't do any grandstanding.
KELLY: But that's the problem, that's what they always do.
PERINO: They always do it.
KELLY: They don't get real information.
PERINO: They always do it. And you know, when they read their questions that staff prepared. If they are just sincere and honest and try to get information, I think that's fine. But I also think this. We have always know what's going to happen, they are going to move on --
KELLY: Uh-hm.
PERINO: And what Hillary Rosen said, move on, this is old news, that's going to happen. So everyone --
KELLY: Talk about something people care about which doesn't include honesty.
PERINO: That's right, but they are wrong, people do care about this, but I don't know if enough people care about this to deny her the presidency.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Well, I feel like the Republicans have what they are going to get, you know, that opening statement by Director Comey. Why don't they just take --
PERINO: Quote his words. Don't say anything else. Play the ad a lot, see whether it resonates. And I think Comey knew that.
KELLY: Yes.
PERINO: I think he was trying to offer some sort of punishment.
KELLY: I don't know. I know a lot of lawyers. I haven't heard any lawyer say anything other than you can trust him, he's a man of integrity. He doesn't make his decisions based on a partisan basis. Now suddenly you don't get the decision that you like. People do this to judges all the time, he's the worst! He sucks! (audio gap) That was controversial because the tax laws to save ObamaCare, in any event, point taken.
Dana Perino, always great to see you. That was weird, no one even argued it. It was like a throwaway line. What?
Anyway, tonight, Donald Trump and Newt Gingrich are storming the Buckeye State just as reports hit up that a V.P. pick appears to be just around the corner. Ben Domenech and Guy Benson are here with who Trump is likely to choose.
Plus, we're keeping a close eye on an exclusive situation in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where controversy is growing tonight over the police shooting of a black man earlier this week. Reverend Jesse Jackson and Detective Mark Fuhrman join us live just ahead.
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KELLY: Breaking tonight, presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump making headlines today as he drops multiple hints as to how and when he will choose his running mate. Tonight in Cincinnati, Ohio Trump appeared at a rally with former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, just hours after saying he's considering a short list of ten people. In moments, we'll be joined by Ben Domenech and Guy Benson about who they believe Trump's going to choose. But first, we got to Fox News Mike Tobin live in Cincinnati. Mike?
MIKE TOBIN, DFOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey Megyn, right on the top of the list of things that Trump was talking about, doubling down on his Saddam Hussein comments interpreted by some as praise for Saddam Hussein because Trump said Saddam was good at killing terrorists.
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DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Donald Trump loves Saddam Hussein. I said, that's not what I said. That's not what I said. So that's the narrative that goes around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TOBIN: And as you mentioned, speculation is running wild about the V.P. pick. We know that Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee is out, Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa seems to be out, and Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey has a chance, as does Governor Mike Pence of Indiana. Senator -- Congressman Jeff Sessions is on the list. The very top of the list for the moment anyway seems to be former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich.
The crowd here in Ohio chanted Newt, Newt, Newt as Trump said one way or another Gingrich will be part of his administration. Possibly, he could be the guide (ph) who helps Trump navigate Capitol Hill. Here in Ohio, Gingrich saying Trump's praises.
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NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The difference between all of the folks who came out and talked and Donald Trump is that he has had a lifetime of creating jobs, a lifetime of building buildings, a lifetime of getting things done. Everybody else talks about how they would like to sort of change Washington a little bit in a calm such way. This guy is going to kick over the table.
(CHEERING)
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TOBIN: Now, Trump heads tomorrow to Washington, D.C. to meet with Senate and House Republicans, particularly those who aren't too crazy about him. He will try to get their hackles up about Hillary Clinton and present himself as a better option. Megyn?
KELLY: Mike Tobin, great to see you. Joining me now is Ben Domenech, publisher of "The Federalist" and Guy Benson who's a Fox News contributor and a political editor at Townhall.com. Great to see you both. So Ben, I'll start with you, if you had to -- give me your top two likely from team Trump, who would they be?
BEN DOMENECH, THE FEDERALIST PUBLISHER: I think at this stage you have to consider the top two to include Newt Gingrich, to include Chris Christie and I think that that's an interesting dynamic because these are two people who have been very significant surrogates for him on the campaign trail. What you want in a vice presidential selection is someone who's media savvy, who's tested, who's a known quantity and can be a good surrogate for the candidate. You heard Gingrich doing that just the other day.
The difference between the two of them I would say is that Chris Christie actually has a background that is pretty checkered when it comes to issues like judges. Where someone like Gingrich would reassure I think a lot of conservatives that when it comes to a Supreme Court nomination they could trust a Trump-Gingrich ticket to deliver on those items. He's certainly is making a play for it and wants -- clearly wants it and I think that this is the move that would be smart for Trump to make.
KELLY: So it would help him secure the difficult white male vote that he's struggling with.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: That's what you were saying.
DOMENECH: I didn't hear -- I didn't hear anybody on that list that was not a white male that was just given by (inaudible).
KELLY: Listen, I bet, I mean that assumes that logic by these pundits assumes that if he picks Joni Ernst, who took herself out of it today, the Iowa senator, that women are going to say, I'm voting for Trump. Women who look like -- do women or, you know, African-Americans or Hispanics really vote based on gender or color or heritage of the running mate? I'll ask you that Ben and then I'll go to Guy.
DOMENECH: You know, it doesn't really work that way. From my perspective, what you see in this list that Trump, at least the names that have been publicly available, there's always that possibility that there's some dark horse out there that we're not talking about. I think a lot more that has to do with enforcing his right flank, with making sure he doesn't lose any conservative votes who would have voted for Mitt Romney last time around when it comes to the fall.
KELLY: Guy, do you agree Christie and Newt are likely the top two?
GUY BENSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, I don't pretend to lay any claim to expertise on Donald Trump's psyche or thought processes at any time. That being said, I do think based on what we've seen from Trump himself and from comments from Cory Lewandowski, the fired campaign manager, is that Trump is prioritizing two things in this search.
The first is someone who's experienced in Washington, knows policy, knows D.C., knows how the inner workings all play out. He's also looking for someone with whom he is personally very comfortable. If those are the top two items or bullet points on the agenda, I think that probably points to Newt Gingrich.
KELLY: What do you think of that ticket, Guy? What do you think of that ticket, you know, Trump-Gingrich?
BENSON: Well, I think there would be some flaws. Newt Gingrich has some significant negatives that he brings to the table, including his unfavorability rating among voters. That being said, Newt has a lot of currency with many conservatives, he is fluent on policy issues, and is very effective as a surrogate and certainly would not have any compunction, in fact he would relish being an attack dog against the Democratic ticket.
KELLY: I can't imagine the debate with Newt Gingrich. We will tune in -- that might get more ratings than -- no, it won't, never mind. But it will get a lot of ratings because he's a good debater. It's great to see you both.
BENSON: Thanks, Megyn.
KELLY: I mean, who doesn't want to see the Trump/Hillary debate, right? Who, like, whatever you're doing, you'd cancel. It's like, whatever, you got to see it happen.
Up next, we are monitoring the scene out of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, after an officer-involved shooting of a black man sparks national outrage and a federal investigation already. Former LAPD homicide detective Mark Furman is here, civil rights attorney Anndell Brown are here, and then Reverend Jesse Jackson is here.
(COMMERCIAL BRAK)
KELLY: Developing tonight, tensions high in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, tonight after less than 24 hours ago Baton Rouge police responded to an incident outside of a local convenience store involving a reportedly armed man. Within minutes, the tense confrontation turns fatal as bystanders captured the incident on cell phone video. We want to warn you that the content is very graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground. Get on the (bleep) ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got a gun. Don't (bleep) move. I swear to God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh (bleep).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They shot him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my (bleep) goodness.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Fox's Casey Stegall is live in Dallas with the late breaking details, Casey?
CASEY STEGALL, FOX NEWS DALLAS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, investigators say this all started when a 911 call was made about a disturbance at that Baton Rouge convenience store. The caller stated that there was a man outside selling CD's and that he threatened somebody with a weapon.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gun in his pocket. He pulled a gun on the complainant and told him he couldn't be around there.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
STEGALL: That's when two white officers responded to the call and confronted the African-American suspect, 37-year-old Alton Sterling. Now, a second video of what happened next has emerged, and again we want to warn you it is extremely graphic. It shows the two police officers rolling on the ground with sterling and then you hear those gunshots.
The Baton Rouge police chief confirmed today that Sterling was indeed armed at the time, but it's not clear where his weapon was leading up to and during the confrontation. After the struggle, Sterling's lifeless body remained on the ground and one of the officers called this into dispatch.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired. Shots fired.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Copy. Shots fired. North Foster. 2100 North Foster.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both officers okay, suspect is down. I need EMS, Code 3.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
STEGALL: Now, community outrage over the shooting sparked protest on the streets of Baton Rouge for two nights in a row now. In fact, it's still ongoing at this hour. Fortunately, they have been peaceful at this point. This, as Alton Sterling's family tries to cope with their sudden loss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUINYETTA MCMILLON, MOTHER OF ALTON'S SON: I, for one, will not rest or not allow him to be swept in the dirt.
(EMD VIDEO CLIP)
STEGALL: Now, the two Baton Rouge police officers that were involved in this have been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation. An investigation we learned today that is now being led by the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI. Megyn?
KELLY: Casey Stegall, thank you. Joining us now with more is Mark Furman, former LAPD homicide detective and Fox News contributor and Andell Brown, a defense and civil rights attorney. Great to see you both. Andell, let me start with you on what you see here because already many people are saying that this was an execution.
ANDELL BROWN, DEFENSE AND CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: You know, Megyn, that video's extremely difficult to watch as a man loses his life, a wife loses a husband, and his five children lose a father. What I see is officers approaching him and him with his hands up, seeming to wonder what is he being, you know, approached for. Then I see him being tackled to the ground and officers pinning down his left arm. Two officers are on top of him.
What is difficult to see from the videos that I've seen -- I saw both the earlier video and the one that came out later today, is his right hand? I see one of the officers taking control of it for a certain point in time, but then I lose track of it when I see that video. One of the officers says, "You know, I swear to -- if you don't stop -- if you move."
And then the next thing you hear is some type of scream that you can't make out and gunshots being fired. In the second video it's very clear that you can see that Alton does not seem to have any type of weapon in his hand, but you see him being shot in the chest numerous times, and once again, it's very difficult to watch.
KELLY: But Mark, you know, we all have the luxury of sort of this armchair analysis, aren't there in the moment when someone says this guy has a gun and reportedly did have a gun on his person in his pocket, at least according to the initial reports. Your take?
MARK FURMAN, FORMER LAPD OFFICER: Well, Megyn, when you look at this, we should talk about what we do know. The officers didn't see this suspect in suspicious behavior and then approach him. They were directed there by a radio call, a citizen was threatened with a weapon.
So they go there, and when you watch the escalation of force, first they verbalize and he failed to comply with the verbal commands. They used a taser and that either didn't deploy correctly or didn't hit him correctly, but it was ineffective. Then they actually de-escalated the force that they could have used by tackling and trying to grapple with the suspect.
Now, this man has to take responsibility that he did have a gun, and he conducted himself in some manner to draw attention to a citizen who called the police. And after that, the one officer, if this is the way it went down, one officer shot, one officer didn't. When you hear he's got a gun, if the other officer now uses deadly force, it's because he believes that that gun is in the hand or is attempting to be put in the hand of the suspect.
KELLY: Andell?
BROWN: I mean, I'm not going to say that, you know, I'm not going to cast aspersions on somebody who's not here to defend themselves and say what they, you know, what they thought was happening. When an officer approaches you, I think it's just kind of normal to want to know why exactly am I being told to get on the ground. Why exactly am I being approached in this aggressive manner, and I think many people in the community are on edge because they see these numerous situations and it seems to be a very quick escalation without an opportunity for people to figure out what's going on.
He's a CD guy, right. He's out there every day. The owner of the store knows him. They know he's not a bad guy, they know he's not a dangerous guy...
KELLY: But the cops don't know. The thing is, the cops don't know any of that and that's...
BROWN: I don't (inaudible) people who have permission (ph) in these community know who is, and he's dead. And that's part of the problem. We need people in our community that know the communities they're policing.
KELLY: I'm up against a hard break, guys. I got to go. Reverend Jesse Jackson is next. He says this is a public lynching.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Developing tonight, the Department of Justice is already pursuing a civil rights investigation into the death of Alton Sterling. Earlier today civil rights leader Jesse Jackson called this police shooting a public lynching. Reverend Jesse Jackson is the founder and president of the Rainbow PUSH Coalition and my guest now. Reverend, good to see you tonight. This is disturbing, no question about it, and hard to watch, but to those who say...
JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW PUSH COALITON FOUNDER: It is hard to watch.
KELLY: But to those who say that you go too far by referring to it in those judgmental terms before we know all the facts, what say you?
JACKSON: The fact we do know is a man was on the ground, held down by another police, shot in the back and in the chest, at least four times. He was no threat to police who were involved in that.
KELLY: We don't know that. That second part there we don't yet know.
JACKSON: We see, the camera is the eye and the eyes tell us that this man is down with no lethal harm to these police or been a threat to them at all. And now the whole world is watching. They didn't have to kill this man. And it's the pattern -- it's so reminiscent of Garner in New York where the police felt they had to choke him to death, that to shoot him four times with no threat to them, it's a rookie.
KELLY: Can you tell these officers with prior cases that they had nothing to do with, to ascribe motive to them? I mean, there are defenders who say they were scared, that somebody said he had a gun. They were there because somebody had reported feeling threatened by him and that he had a gun.
JACKSON: Well, somebody said is a poor excuse to shoot a man in the back and then the chest four times. That's a poor excuse. That's not good police work (ph).
KELLY: But that just what set things are (ph).
JACKSON: I see the force was excessive, it was unnecessary, and it was deadly. The only reason -- justification of police shooting someone is they are a threatened themselves, not hearsay, not they say, they killed this man. When I grew up (ph) it was white fleece and covered faces, now it's audaciously blue uniforms.
It is a pattern, and I think first the governor should be commended for moving immediately to bring in the FBI and Justice because they at least have more credibility in the situation. The second piece of this is that if he had shot them down on the ground, he would be arraigned tonight, not on administrative leave getting paid.
KELLY: Earlier tonight you came out and you called them racist. Now, that's -- that is a bridge too far, is it not? We have no idea what was in those cops' hearts.
JACKSON: No, we know the culture, and we know that these two white cops arrived at these conclusions and did not just...
KELLY: Come on, come on, that's not fair to these guys. That's not fair.
JACKSON: These guys murdered a man who was making...
KELLY: Can you have racist to ascribe that sort of a racist motivation to these guys without knowing?
JACKSON: No, no, their fears were unfounded and in part the stereotypes of an African-American male. On hearsay, they shot him four times on the ground. And Megyn, in this case it's not hearsay, it's the whole world is watching. So, while we debate this and we trivialize...
KELLY: Yeah, they are. I got to leave it at that, sir.
JACKSON: ...the whole world is watching. This is a murder and they must be tried.
KELLY: They're watching and we'll continue watching and you and I will continue this discussion another time. Very good of you to be here tonight, sir.
JACKSON: Indeed.
KELLY: All the best. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: What did you make of the Reverend Jesse Jackson's statements right now? Go to facebook.com/thekellyfile, follow me on Twitter @megynkelly. Let me know what you think. Thanks, everyone, for watching. I'm Megyn Kelly. This is "The Kelly File." See you tomorrow night at 9:00.
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