Do media deserve credit for ObamaCare disaster? Bob Beckel's advice for President Obama

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 29, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: What are you wearing?

Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld, along with Andrea Tantaros, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, and -- for Halloween, she's going as a human being, it's Dana Perino.

This is "The Five."

(MUSIC)

GUTELD: Hey, you want to get depressed. Watch "The View."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA WALTERS, 'THE VIEW' CO-HOST: This morning's headlines had some people worried that they are going to lose their medical plans because of ObamaCare.

Are you worried?

AUDIENCE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're not worried?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: That's not low information voting. That's no information voting.

If knowledge were water, that audience is Death Valley. But now we're reminded of old news, the White House knew millions of people would lose their health insurance -- well, at least Obama was honest with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you've got health insurance, you like your doctor, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can you keep your plan.

If Americans like their doctor, they will keep their doctor, and if you like your insurance plan, you will keep it. No one will be able to take that away from you.

If you're one of the more than 250 million Americans who already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.

If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period.

If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

GUTFELD: He said period. Even his punctuation lies.

Now, the White House calls this a normal turnover, so was Pompeii -- but at least our leader, Valerie Jarrett, fought back, tweeting from her cockpit within Obama's cranium where she pulls the lever that operates the sly left. He's pinky, she's the brain.

The gist: blame it on the insurance companies, but that's like a landlord tripling your rent and then blaming you for leaving.

But at least a 60-year-old man now has maternity care, you know, in case he gets pregnant.

Look, at some point, the media has to take credit for this. They coddled this regime, turning a blind eye to its incompetence. Obama was the star QB who could skip out on clash, rumble the teachers and make rash demands on cheerleaders. The IRS, Benghazi, ObamaCare -- congrats, media. You built that.

So, it's nice you care now but that's because you've got more egg on your face than Michael Moore at Denny's. It's too late. Obama care will swallow billions of dollars that could have spent on retirement, education, kids' clothes. As progressives are imposed for their engineered calamities, they must reinvent the ruse. Wealth transfer becomes health transfer. Confiscation cloaked as concern.

This Halloween, the treat was merely a trick, and the American people were left holding the bag. And it's all razor blades, no candy.

So this NBC report that says that 40 percent to 60 percent of customers will lose their health coverage, Andrea, we actually reported this three years ago, but this is now suddenly big news because nobody took it seriously.

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: No one took it seriously in the media. I think very few people actually read the bill in the media because all of this information, Greg, was already there.

GUTFELD: Yes.

TANTAROS: Also, if you studied what happened in Massachusetts, the same policies that were put in place in Massachusetts were the same policies as part of ObamaCare. They never bothered to research or do that story.

And they also missed not what's happening in the individual market.

GUTFELD: Right.

TANTAROS: Right? So employers are cancelling plans that don't have these 15 essential benefits. States used to determine the benefits. Now, it's the feds.

So, for example, you, if you have a plan, let's say you have an individual plan. An essential benefit is now pediatric dentistry.

GUTFELD: Right.

TANTAROS: What are you going to do with that plan? So, your plan is likely going to get cancelled if you don't have it.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: (INAUDIBLE)

(LAUGHTER)

TANTAROS: Well, not's get too mean to Greg.

GUTFELD: Actually, it's true, I want to have baby teeth.

TANTAROS: Also. We saw employers already dropping their coverage because if they had over 50 and they didn't want to pay the fines, they said go into the exchanges, so that was another lie they knew you could keep your doctor. All these seniors, too, are losing their Medicare Advantage.

This is a story, Greg, the media missed. They were supposed to lose their Medicare Advantage right before the election. What did the administration do? They took $8 billion as part of project demonstrations and put them in Medicare Advantage to just clog that hole so that that story didn't get out before the election. Now, all these seniors are losing their medical advantage -- Medicare Advantage, and the White House knew about it and lied on all three fronts.

GUTFELD: Bob? You're scowling. I'm assured you have a report.

BECKEL: There's 311 million people in this country. Less than 15 million may see their insurance changed. That have 10 million normally get it changed. For 20 years in a row, the insurance company has increased fees before Obama was even known.

Now, I'm going to shown you a little graph of insurance companies, what their stock was like when Obama took them on in 2007 and now what they are profits are today, I mean, what their stock prices are today. They are soaring. The insurance companies are making a fortune.

And so --

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Wait. Hold on.

GUTFELD: The profit margins are slim, Bob, and you know it.

BOLLING: By the way, their profit margins are now regulated under ObamaCare.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Here's -- here's the other thing.

BOLLING: What was that, though? You're comparing the stock price to what?

TANTAROS: There's no source on that graph either. Where were the source?

BOLLING: Remember what happened when President Obama took over? The stock market was 6,500. Now it's 15,600.

BECKEL: Excuse me, all I'm saying is that -- the health insurance companies are 65 percent more -- they value their stocks 65 percent more since Obama took --

BOLLING: And they are trailing the S&P because the S&P is up over 120 percent.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: You make fun about what (INAUDIBLE), but the fact of the matter is -- people are losing their policies, are going to get better policies, the ones they are losing are crap. But they could have kept them if the insurance companies would have been willing to give it to them.

BOLLING: And that addresses one issue, you can keep your insurance if you want it.

There's another huge shoe to drop. You banned it. The other shoe to drop is doctors, where are they going to come?

There's a New York state study, the New York state medical Society, 29,000 doctors, they conducted a poll in New York state. Forty-four percent of them said they're not participating whatsoever in ObamaCare, 33 percent said they're not sure. That leaves 23 percent who said they are involved. Of that 23 percent, three-quarters of those are doing it because they are contractually obligated to do that.

So, if you take the numbers straight down the line, that leaves 6 percent of doctors in New York state as polled are in favor of ObamaCare and will provide service. Do you want 6 percent only? You want the other 94 percent of the people --

BECKEL: They are going to get a second job as waiters at night?

BOLLING: What kind of health care are you going to get when the vast majority of doctors that are in the system don't want to be there?

BECKEL: I have -- my sympathy --

BOLLING: This is important.

BECKEL: Fine.

BOLLING: This is health care, not insurance.

BECKEL: Fine, these guys -- 60 percent, that's all a doctor, only 6 percent, what are the rest are going to do?

BOLLING: No, 23 percent are taking it.

BECKEL: What about the 77 percent?

BOLLING: Seventy-seven percent -- 44 said they are not doing it.

TANTAROS: What about new doctors? What incentives are there for young doctors going to medical schools?

BECKEL: Every medical school slot has been filled.

TANTAROS: You don't know that.

BOLLING: This is health care not health insurance, which is the other shoe to drop.

GUTFELD: Dana, you said -- it must have been about two weeks ago as this was all falling apart. Wait for it. The insurance companies are going to be the ones blamed.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Right. Because the administration is not that great at governing but really good at blaming. And then, so, they blame, and then they figure out -- somehow how to express outrage and then blame the victim.

GUTFELD: Right. It's a really impressive strategy.

The insurance companies have become hardly more than public utilities, and we watched during the health care debate, the insurance companies basically danced all the way with the administration up until the very end when they were going to call for the final song, and all of a sudden the administration changed the rules.

This rule that we're talking about that FOX reported on and now is getting a lot more attention three years later, I'm fine with that. When Lisa Myers of NBC News, the investigative reporter gets put on your story, you're in big trouble, I know from experience.

BECKEL: Can I ask you a question? Can I ask you a question?

GUTFELD: Yes, sure.

BECKEL: Thank you.

PERINO: I didn't even say anything until eight minute of the show.

BECKEL: That's fine. I'll ask you a question.

PERINO: OK. Ask me a question.

BECKEL: The insurance companies for 20 years, according to our brain room, have increased their -- before Obama was around, every year for 20 years, they increased on the average of 20 percent, their premiums.

Now, let me ask you a question here. We act as if the old days, the good old days were pre-ObamaCare --

BOLLING: Can you just not -- you just said they increased our premiums 20 percent every year since -- before ObamaCare along. Is that what you said?

TANTAROS: That doesn't make any sense.

BECKEL: Average is 20 percent every year.

BOLLING: Every year?

BECKEL: Yes.

BOLLING: You're out of your mind. Porter, can you call -- I'm sorry, Chuck Berry, can you call the brain room and see if they said the insurance company increased premiums 20 percent every year.

GUTFELD: By the way, even if the premiums were increased, doesn't matter -- it's because medical care goes up, the profit margins are still incredibly slim.

BECKEL: You want to go back to the good old days of pre -- all this healthcare discussion.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Nice tactic. Yes.

GUTFELD: It was nice.

TANTAROS: Yes. Bob, we talked about this, there were minimal increases. And the way to deal with that was to open up insurance over state lines and get the plans and insurers to compete with that.

BECKEL: I'm for that.

TANTAROS: OK. Then why didn't your administration do that?

BECKEL: I don't know. I wasn't there.

GUTFELD: You know why, I think this is a long -- it's a long-term plan for single payer. They are going to let this thing fall apart so it ends up becoming a single-payer government-sponsored program.

Here's Ed Henry. Let's throw to some tape because we need to calm down here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: To quote the president, September of 2009. Quote, "I want to spend a few minutes debunking some of the more outrageous myths circulating on the Internet. If you like your private health insurance plan, you can keep your plan, period."

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: OK, that's the same quote I think that had read to me earlier, Ed.

HENRY: Do the president's words matter when he sells a big thing like that?

CARNEY: Ed, again, all I ask of FOX and everybody else is to provide the context. All I ask is that you note the population that we're talking about and you note the fact that the Affordable Care Act, as written, allows that if you have the insurance on the individual market, the president was talking about before the passage of the Affordable Care Act, and you wanted to keep it, you could keep it. What we obviously cannot do or could not do in the interim was prevent insurers from cancelling that policy and then offering a new one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Andrea, how do you do there?

TANTAROS: Not very well. Not very well at all.

Your analogy when you opened the show was about a landlord. So, that was a great analogy. Imagine mandating that everybody rents but landlords have to put all these essential benefits in the apartment but not everyone needs a new sound system or a high range stove or something like this.

GUTFELD: Yes.

TANTAROS: And then they get blamed as they jack up the prices for the rent, they get blamed for cancelling all of the leases.

PERINO: Or the energy efficient washroom dryer.

BECKEL: How many people lost their insurance policies?

TANTAROS: Millions, Bob, have already lost.

BECKEL: Millions?

TANTAROS: I predict at least over 10 million people are going to lose, and that is low.

BECKEL: Three hundred eleven million people.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: You don't care about the individual. You really don't, Bob. That's basically what they are saying.

BECKEL: We went with that bimbo down in Florida who said her insurance was 50 bucks and now $536. She had no plan.

TANTAROS: How do you know she is a bimbo?

BECKEL: Bimbo is a nice word.

GUTFELD: Jeez.

BECKEL: Stop it, I'll stop --

PERINO: Basically the White House staff did not know what they were talking about, or they told the president something false, or they all knew what was going in on it. That's the bottom line news story of the day which is people realize that they are going to have changes in their health care. They were -- but they are really mad that they were lied to.

BECKEL: Do you think they love their health care plans?

BOLLING: Can I ask, Dana, how in the world would they let him go out there and say it, Greg, you pulled three or four, you can keep your health thing, you can keep it, period -- they let him do that month after month after month knowing very well they put it out themselves in 2010.

BECKEL: But if the insurance companies hadn't changed their plans, they could --

PERINO: But they were required to change their plan under the law, Bob.

BECKEL: Grandfathered.

BOLLING: No.

PERINO: Grandfathered. Then you just walked yourself right into a trap, Bob.

BECKEL: Can I ask you a question? Do you think the insurance -- do you think everybody loves their insurance plan right now?

PERINO: I think it's like Congress. I think most people like their own insurance plan but they hate the insurance company.

BECKEL: Sixty percent of the bankruptcies --

(CROSSTALK)

TANTAROS: At least they can choose, Bob. A one-fits-all program where Kathleen Sebelius says these are the essential benefits for the entire United States of America and you have to follow them is not choice, and that's what they said would happen. So this administration knew exactly what it was doing, and it's not insurance company's fault that employers that have over 50 employees are saying forget this. It's too costly. Go into the exchanges. That was an easy lie that he didn't have to make.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: -- to sponsor of this show. They do very well here.

PERINO: They made their own bed.

GUTFELD: All right. Coming up, we're going to take a look at some of the most --

BOLLING: Something.

GUTFELD: -- something, something provocative media reaction to the late -- they were so interested in what we were talking about they forgot that they had to roll the teleprompter.

All right. We're going to look at more stuff.

Before we go check out our Facebook page at Facebook.com/TheFiveFNC. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Welcome back, everybody.

They say politics makes for strange bedfellows and since the launch of the mandated health care law, politics has been front and center in the media. Three examples of media taking -- talking heads saying the darnedest things.

First up, NBC talking goatee Chuck Todd seems to be carrying the water for the Obama administration by blaming the insurance companies -- Bob -- for the new revelation that millions will lose their coverage under ObamaCare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS: They put themselves in the hands of the insurance companies. They were making promises that they were hoping the insurance companies were going to keep. But when you think about that initial statement, and at the time, all of us said we're highly skeptical of how he could make that promise.

I never understood why he said if you like your health care plan you can keep it because he was relying somehow on the insurance companies to keep this promise.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no. Lisa --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Dana, your thoughts on that. That's exactly what we were talking about in the A-block.

PERINO: It is, that's why we'll talk about it again because it's so compelling.

So, when the president was saying if you want -- if you like your health care you can keep, and it was basically the mantra of the entire campaign, people that questioned that, looking at the facts, then we were considered crazy and hateful and racist, and you name all of the things, and now, the media is saying oh, yes, we all knew that. We didn't understand why they were saying that. I think that's remarkable.

GUTFELD: You know what he did? He indicted hope. Chuck Todd said that, you know, they were hoping that the insurance policies would fall in line, but hope is not a campaign.

Hope is not real. That's problem -- you hope that Iran will cooperate. That's a stupid strategy. Hope is pointless. It's good to see Chuck Todd realizing that.

BOLLING: Was there any basis, as Chuck points out, that they were hoping the insurance companies would stay on board? Was there any basis for that? Did they even think about, by the way, if it's not profitable to keep this insurance company but we do it because we're an insurance company, and I have the opportunity to cancel that one?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Why wouldn't they think of this? Why didn't they think of that before now --

TANTAROS: Because nobody in the administration has ever run a business.

BOLLING: Right.

TANTAROS: They go from the faculty lounge to the public sector. No one has ever managed anything. They don't understand making a profit. Clearly, just look at our national debt.

So, the insurance companies are looking at this right now. Many of these insurance companies didn't even want to participate in ObamaCare. They are getting an influx of sick people into the system. It's going to cost them so much money, and they have until I guess Thursday, Eric, to decide if they don't want to be part of it.

Also, if CMS breaches a lot of these contracts, would the insurance companies doesn't carry the breaches? I predict a lot more insurance companies are going to say we're out of here and that's how they make the case for single-payer.

BECKEL: The insurance companies could have issued these policies if they wanted to.

BOLLING: What are you talking about? Which policy?

TANTAROS: Which one?

BECKEL: Could they issue -- the ones that presumably that (INAUDIBLE) we're taking off insurance. The policies that were there, if the insurance companies wanted to, they could have kept the insurance policies.

TANTAROS: Bob, they have to include these certain things.

BECKEL: I know. I understand that.

BOLLING: Right. But they are getting -- the onus is put on for the policies, all the other ones. The lady in Florida that you're talking about, she didn't have 15 different things in her policy. That's why she was paying 50 bucks a month. Now they are required to give her 15 different things and it costs to insure that $500 a month. It's playing with the free market.

TANTAROS: A lot of things she didn't need.

BOLLING: They're messing with the free market.

All right. Up next, in a rare movement sanity or sobriety, whichever comes first, tingles Matthews over at MSNBC questioning President Obama's cred.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC: I think it's a real challenge if people with regular policies out there that covered normal medical expenses are now told, wait a minute, that policy doesn't count. I think that will be a real problem for the president in terms of his credibility, if those accounts are in that list.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: What do you think, Greg?

GUTFELD: Well, Chris Matthews saying you have a credibility issue is like Mike Tyson saying you have a tattoo on your face problem.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: So, I don't know.

BOLLING: (INAUDIBLE) Matthews. Thoughts?

TANTAROS: I think at some point these reporters are interested in covering their own butts and you cannot defend the indefensible, so even Chris Matthews is saying whose credibility is more important, mine or Barry's. I'll do mine instead.

BOLLING: Go ahead, Robert.

BECKEL: First of all, I think Obama should not have -- I mean, would I not -- you never make an absolute statement like that in politics because it always comes back to bite you.

BOLLING: But why he did this? Why did he? He's a good politician? What'd he do?

BECKEL: Well, it was a campaign. You say what you're going to say in campaign.

PERINO: He had already won.

BECKEL: Let me put it this way. The number of people affected by this in a country of 311 million people is miniscule. Miniscule. And they'll get better policies, by the way.

BOLLING: All right. Dana, you want to weigh on Matthews?

PERINO: I just think that what Bob just said proves what we are talking about earlier, that this administration and their surrogates do not care about the individual. If you have employer-sponsored coverage, they're fine with that. You don't -- if you want to be in Medicaid or Medicare, they want you there.

But if you are an individual and you're a small business owner and you're trying to make it on your own, they don't give a crap about you.

BECKEL: They don't care? They don't care?

PERINO: You just said you don't care about them. You just said it.

BECKEL: I said, wait a minute --

GUTFELD: You said it's miniscule, 10 or 11 million.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Why would he do that? And you said, well, he was in a campaign, so can we summarize it was politics over policy, can we?

BECKEL: Certainly, that statement was -- we probably could say it was politics over policy, yes. In the end, you're arguing over a chump change amount of people most of whom can either afford it.

PERINO: You heard it here, folks. Democrats think individuals are chump change. That's what you voted for.

BOLLING: One last thought. You know who is getting their insurance policies pulled out from under them? It's not wealthy people. It's poor people. It's the people who don't have enough bells and whistles in their policies.

Finally, in a battle of the big dogs, check out two vastly different opinions on the Obama care fallout. On the left, Howard Dean, and on the right, Dr. Charles Krauthammer -- both doctors, by the way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DNC CHAIR: I think ObamaCare is, in fact, going to be the reason that we are going to pick up seats in the House, and we are not going to lose the Senate.

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: When the other guy is committing suicide, get out of the way. This could be a setback for the entitlement state and the liberal arrogant idea that could set them back for a decade, and they know it, which is why they are terrified.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Dr. Dean --

PERINO: So, did Howard Dean think that in 2010 which was an historic loss for the incumbent party after a major piece of legislation was passed? In 2010, the Democrats lost more seats than any other party had lost in a first-year mid-term.

So, I don't know what changes all of a sudden for him the calculation that we found out that the president told you something that is not true so now vote for them?

BECKEL: They were saying things in 2010 that weren't true to get people to vote against them. I mean, they were outmaneuvered -- Obama and his people were completely outmaneuvered in 2010 by the Tea Party people who sent out a lot of misleading information.

TANTAROS: They were right.

PERINO: The Tea Party people who said don't believe the president who said you could keep your plan if you want to?

TANTAROS: It's proven that the Tea Party is now right, right?

BECKEL: Oh, yes.

TANTAROS: I can understand how Howard Dean maybe making that point to spin it, if the Web site were working, but now you see -- and this is one thing we're not even talking about. All of these states that are taking all of these new Medicaid patients that cost people nothing to sign up. Single guys living at their girlfriend's apartment or living with their parents or on their own, before you needed a kid to get Medicaid, now you don't. Those hundreds of thousands of people that we're all going to be paying for, that debate hasn't even started yet. That's another thing that they lied to us about.

GUTFELD: Guys, the only thing is when you watch Howard Dean speak and then, Charles Krauthammer, it's quite a -- it's like going from highlights to war and peace --

BOLLING: Two doctors, which would you rather be treated by.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

BOLLING: Go ahead, Robert. I'm sorry. That's it? It's all you've got.

BECKEL: I've got some things to say but I'll wait until the end of the show.

TANTAROS: Isn't that why you said push the individual mandate back to prevent all these political problems?

BECKEL: I think this is all -- this is all -- I mean, I think you all are throwing fear-mongering among people. I think the Obama administration did not tell them the straight story, and I think the insurance companies underneath all of it have manipulated it.

BOLLING: Good. All right. We can leave it right there.

Coming up, Kathleen Sebelius --

BECKEL: Good, good, good. OK, moving right along.

BOLLING: We're moving right along, Kathleen Sebelius will finally be testifying on Capitol Hill tomorrow. We got our hands on a copy of her prepared remarks. We'll give you a sneak peek, coming up.

And remember, check out our new Web site at FoxNews.com/TheFive. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Tomorrow, Kathleen Sebelius, the secretary of Health and Human Services, the agency at the center of the calamitous rollout of ObamaCare, is going to testify in front of the House Energy and Commerce Committee. We're going to have complete coverage of that tomorrow night on "The Five".

But in advance of the hearing, I was inspired over the weekend. I wrote a column for FOXNews.com with five suggestions for House Republicans on how to get the most out of her appearance on the Hill tomorrow.

These are the ones that I came up, and I'm sure there are others that my panelists here will be able to talk about. One is that they could take the opportunity to make a new impression. This is -- a lot of people will be watching tomorrow maybe for the first time, that they should come with more facts. They should bottle the fake outrage which is my biggest complaint about the hearings. Channel their frustration and then also be able to crisply describe the policies that they are for, not just what they are against.

Eric, I wanted to ask you if you were a congressman and tomorrow you were in the House Energy and Commerce Committee, what would you ask the secretary?

BOLLING: When -- well, there would be two. When do you expect the ObamaCare Web site to be up? I think they have to stay on it. There's plenty of time to talk about all the costs and what-not and dropping the insurance coverage, but when are you going to get it up? And are we still paying the people -- who's fixing it and who is paying?

Can I just very quickly tell you? Sunday, the Web site was down. Monday, it was down. I told the story yesterday. I spent 40 minutes on there, getting through two steps in the process, creating the account. I had to go to "The Five". I went down to "The Five".

I went back on today and typed in my account and said there's no account anymore.

PERINO: Start over.

BOLLING: I called the call center. Very nice lady told me they are -- she said experiencing glitches. We hope to have them fixed by the end of November, and then she read a statement to me.

Now, you've got to hear this. "We apologize for any technical difficulties you may be experiencing as you use healthcare.gov. We know this may be frustrating, and we're working to improve healthcare.gov to make sure your experience with it is a positive one."

PERINO: Well, good luck with that.

Andrea, how would you approach the questions tomorrow? What do you think if the Republicans were envisioning their best headlines out of the hearing, what would that be?

TANTAROS: Well, first, I would set her up for failure and I would ask her how many non-subsidized healthy people they expect to actually be enrolled by October 2014, October 1st? Why is that important, a month before the mid-term elections. They're never going to be able to make that goal, whatever she says is going to be. But pin her down on a number tomorrow.

Also, I would ask her: did President Obama know that millions were going to lose their individual coverage? If so, who briefed him and when did he know? Did he know that in fact and I would also pin her down on that.

If I were her tomorrow, Dana, I would have a total attitude adjustment. I wouldn't come out like she did last week and say, I don't work for anyone who doesn't like this plan.

I would be humble and I would be pleasant like you said, and grateful and determined to fix this.

PERINO: Well, OK, so, speaking tune, Greg, one of the things that I mentioned in the piece, and we were talking about it last week, I felt sorry for the witness last week. Why do I feel sorry for them? It's because like the members were being like jerks.

GUTFELD: Well, I mean, I have a couple of suggestions to add to your -- it was a good start. Congratulations. Remember Oliver North, that's all you've got to remember. Iran Contra made him because he appeared to be ganged up on by a group of people, and because he appeared outnumbered, he became the David to the Goliath. And now, he is a FOX News contributor.

Get a haircut, Republicans. I'm tired of seeing these goofy-looking haircuts. Think about what you're going to wear. I suggest an ascot, a fez, maybe a smoking jacket. A pipe would be nice.

PERINO: Monocle?

GUTFELD: Yes, monocle would be great. Get to the point, no compliments, no insults. Ask the questions that matter.

You know, during the whole Benghazi stuff, I don't think anybody asked who pushed the video? Remember we used to sit there and do, nobody ever -- you've got to ask the major questions, and quote me at every opportunity.

PERINO: Bob, is there anyone you want to give advice to tomorrow, be it the House Republicans, House Democrats or the secretary herself.

BECKEL: First of all, I mean, I think for the House Republicans, I listen to a good part of that hearing today and maybe they should understand what they are talking about. Here was one of the classic lines, I go back to my district, which is a reach and I talk to hundreds of my constituents, and they are all losing their health insurance.

They've got to be specific. Right, the moral outrage. That dude from Texas was -- I can't understand him. The chairman was worse. The only guy who's making sense was Paul Ryan.

And -- I mean, it's just so blatantly political. Why don't they get down to specifics? Because you know why? They don't understand it and ought to go read the bill.

BOLLING: Hold on.

GUTFELD: Nobody reads that bill.

BOLLING: So, Kathleen Sebelius, we have her prepared remarks, she is going to address 20 million unique visits to the Web site, and 700,000 applicants, which is a 3 1/2 percent success rate. So, 96 percent failed so far and those only talks about the applicants. If you go enrollees, it's less than 1 percent of the people who are trying to get on that Web site.

Kathleen, you have you less than 1 percent success rate in enrolling people into ObamaCare. What's going on?

PERINO: Hey, how do they count unique viewers because you went on --

BOLLING: Twice.

PERINO: OK. But when you got kicked off, do you think that you're three of those 39 millions. That's impressive. You could just keep going.

BECKEL: I also would come up -- seriously, I would come up with suggestions and alternatives instead of saying no, no, no, no, no. Let's remember, when the ways and means committee met on Social Security 77 years ago, not a single Republicans voted for it.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: On the committee.

BOLLING: Eighty-one House Republicans have voted for it.

BECKEL: On the committee they didn't because they didn't have an alternative. I'm just saying --

TANTAROS: They have alternatives.

BECKEL: -- the Republicans can lay out an ideas that were, instead of just harping on this stuff --

PERINO: But, Bob, do you remember, just about a month ago you praised the Republicans for reissuing same bill that they had put out and you said finally they had a plan so it actually exists.

BECKEL: So talk about it then.

PERINO: Right, I agree. They should talk about it.

TANTAROS: I would like to see the headline tomorrow, Dana, be her admits that the president knew, who briefed him, when he knew and then the subhead be, HHS claims that his many will be insured by the state so Republicans can say OK.

PERINO: Oh, that was my "One More Thing" and the column was for them to stop calling for her resignation. That is the president's decision. They sound ridiculous. They could fire her but stop calling for her to design.

OK. Directly ahead, what didn't he know and when didn't he know it? That's the question on people's minds as to the White House uses one of its fife rates again, this time relating to the scandal about the USA spying on foreign leaders.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TANTAROS: Well, when it comes to the scandals that plagued Obama's presidencies, it's tough to get straight answers from the most transparent administration in history. The latest example, revelations that the NSA was tapping German Chancellor Angela Merkel's phone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: People wonder how is it that you didn't know about the cell phones being looked at or listened to, and why you didn't know? Who should have told you?

OBAMA: Well, first of all, I'm not confirming a bunch of assumptions that have been made in the press.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TANTAROS: This sounds like some of the dodging that he's done in the past. Remember, the IRS scandal, the Justice Department scandal and Fast and Furious?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

OBAMA: Let me take the IRS situation first. I first learned about it from the same news reports that I think most people learned about this.

I can assure you that I certainly did not know anything about the I.G. report before the I.G. report had been leaked through press.

He's indicated that he was not aware of what was happening in Fast and Furious. Certainly, I was not.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

TANTAROS: So do you believe him?

Eric?

BOLLING: Do you think I believe him.

TANTAROS: No, I don't.

BOLLING: Again, like we said yesterday. Anything bad that happens, I didn't know about it, I heard about it in the media but anything that he feels is good that's happening, he takes credit for it. He takes victory lap, the drone precise strikes, et cetera, et cetera. We took down bin Laden.

But, again, I go back to this. The NSA, right, can data-mine 11 billion e-mails and phone calls and find out what the heck Americans are doing, when President Obama doesn't even know about Fast and Furious, the IRS, Benghazi until he hears about it in the media. It's just disingenuous.

It's just -- it's not that he's not transparent. It's a lack of character. Own up to the mistakes. People would appreciate you more.

TANTAROS: Dana, I don't believe him on some of the other scandals from the sound bites that he said he had no idea about, but could it be possible that he didn't know about this? For example, intelligence briefings often say, OK, Merkel supports a missile defense programs for the Poles. It wouldn't say Angela Merkel supports a missile defense program because we tapped her phone.

So, wouldn't a skilled leader though ask the question?

PERINO: Where did you get that information?

TANTAROS: Right.

PERINO: How did you confirm it?

TANTAROS: Right.

BECKEL: He knows. The president knows where they got the information.

PERINO: I don't like the president having to be in that position because we're talking about intelligence-gathering and protecting other countries. So he's basically now in a situation where he said I'm not going to confirm the rumors so the question was decent.

I also think that we're asking the wrong question. Let's just say President Obama didn't know about it. But then who at the White House did? Who is it?

Did Hillary Clinton know that we were tapping world leaders' phones when she was going to meet with world leaders? Did she know? Did she ever get information that was gleaned from any of those intelligence briefings?

I would love to know that. Somebody should ask her.

TANTAROS: I think there's a chance maybe, Greg, on this one, like I said, he didn't know. Maybe there is honesty coming out of the president saying I didn't know, but because they wouldn't say how they got the information and they didn't ask the question, but didn't this program seem a little weird? There was no discretionary decisions. It just seems very blanket, like Angela Merkel.

Why her? Why not specific enemies? Why not the people who conducted the attacks on Benghazi?

GUTFELD: She's a very sexy lady.

You know, look, President Obama is a guy -- I mean, for a guy who loves to raise awareness, he's remarkably unaware. He's a fat personal trainer. It's just unusual that he would be lost on so many issues. He's got more dodges than a used car lot. Those are my jokes.

TANTAROS: What do you think they found on her phone, Greg? What do you think was orders for Franc burgers (ph)?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

BOLLING: Can I -- yes, what if he didn't know? Isn't that more disturbing than --

TANTAROS: Yes.

BOLLING: -- he did know? That's very disturbing.

TANTAROS: Well, that means that he's playing more golf than he is going to those intel briefings which we know he's doing anyway.

Bob, doesn't the United States have a history of spying on foreign leaders? I mean, this isn't a new thing.

BECKEL: I think one of the questions -- first of all, I think in all these things, even if he didn't know, he should say, but the responsibility is mine. But he didn't finish, we shouldn't say that, that was (INAUDIBLE) ad.

My sympathy for foreign leaders like Merkel is zero. Every situation --

GUTFELD: I agree.

BECKEL: The question should be asked, every administration, from George Bush, to Bill Clinton to H.W. Bush have attacked allies --

PERINO: To George Washington.

BECKEL: That's right. There's nothing new. Why these allies are so disturbed by it?

GUTFELD: Do you think they are doing it for show?

PERINO: Yes, domestic politics. And the other thing is I think that President Obama is in a position he doesn't want to hurt his allies in their domestic politics, so he has to think about ahead. So, they put a little word of yes, we stopped that. The White House reviewed it.

But they can't have it both ways. The White House could not have both reviewed the policy and stopped it and that the president never knew about it because that means he didn't make any of the decisions.

BECKEL: You know, one of the things of those briefing book, it also say, here's a position of leader so and so, quote -- wouldn't you sort of assume from that quote --

TANTAROS: If you are a highly skilled leader, he then follows up with how do we get the information? If you reading these briefings, or let's assume you're reading the briefings, which we know, Bob, the president has not been reading his intelligence briefings. He didn't read the Benghazi briefings, he was golfing. So, yes, you didn't read the briefings, you wouldn't know how they --

BECKEL: I would be shocked if the president of the United States didn't read his morning briefing. I really would.

TANTAROS: I believe that he didn't ask the follow-ups.

BECKEL: Coming up, Bob has good advice on what he thinks the president should do with ObamaCare. Hint, the rest of the table may not agree with his recommendations, and the president probably won't either. Well, he probably would.

But stay right there. We'll tell you what it's all going to be about.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: You probably can guess that I'm not comfortable with this whole ObamaCare argument. And daily we sit here and I find myself having to defend it.

And I realize something, you know, that I was not being very true to myself. I came out in the beginning and I believe it now that this country needs a single-payer plan and that we need to get the insurance companies, which are flush with cash, have caused unbelievable distress among people, lie and do a lot of other things.

I think you need to get them out of the way. Have the one system that everybody can pretty much agree on, Medicare works pretty well in this country. Medicare is a single-payer plan. And that's what we need for everybody in America. And get the insurance companies out of it.

And I think, I think, Mr. Obama, I really hope you reconsider this because in the election if this thing goes the way it's going, we're going to hurt the Democrats a lot. Let's get on single payer and let people understand what it's about and stop arguing with these insurance companies. You went into bed with the insurance, big mistake.

Go ahead.

BOLLING: Really?

BECKEL: Yes.

BOLLING: Where should I start?

BECKEL: I don't care. Start wherever you want.

BOLLING: Well, if that's the plan, if you think that works great, any other industries you want to wipe out arbitrarily because you think the government can do a better job, when they've never been able to do a single industry right, Postal Service, DMV --

BECKEL: How about Medicare?

BOLLING: Medicare is good? $200 billion in waste and fraud a year is good?

BECKEL: You think --

BOLLING: You want to do more of that? I can't.

BECKEL: Dana, go ahead.

PERINO: I think that ObamaCare will run into a real difficulty with Medicare when the cuts to doctors go through and gets back to Eric's point of who is going to be willing to be a Medicare doctor anymore. I think that there's only one thing worse than the insurance companies being in charge, and that's the government being in charge.

TANTAROS: Uh-huh.

BECKEL: Greg?

GUTFELD: Yes. I mean, you are critical of ObamaCare because it didn't go far enough, which is like being critical of the Exxon Valdes because it didn't kill enough ducks. The opposite of a Sister Soulja moment.

I don't understand why -- I mean, why do we have to demonize an industry that's made up of people with -- an insurance industry, these are people that get up and go to work every day just like everybody else, and they have an expertise and they make a very slim profit margins. These are not greedy people.

TANTAROS: I'm not going to defend the insurance companies, but a single payer is the stupidest thing you could ever, ever do. President Obama would have loved to get single-payer, a lot of liberals in Congress would have loved it, but guess what? The support in the Democratic caucus wasn't there. Or they would have tried, it was not there.

It's great if you're healthy, Bob. If you're sick, it's a real problem because they mend out what you pay for certain services. You have unhappy doctors if you can find doctors. You have long lines because everybody enrolls -- can I finish?

BECKEL: Sure.

TANTAROS: You have long lines because everybody enrolls. The quality of care is DMV style health care. It is a terrible idea.

BECKEL: OK, this comes down to one simple thing, Eric, a lot of people like to do away with entitlements and I want to see entitlements being spent. That's what it's about. They want all to be headed by the free market, which is I think is going to --

BOLLING: If you do away with entitlements, you get to keep your own money and you can have the private sector --

BECKEL: Tell a poor person that has got a lot of extra money to take care of them.

GUTFELD: Tell the poor person they have opportunity to make money.

BECKEL: OK, fine. That's our political argument. So, we'll see what happens.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: It's "One More Thing", let's go to Dana.

PERINO: So, this morning I was at the dog park.

GUTFELD: Oh, what a surprise.

PERINO: Taking Jasper to the park.

BECKEL: Oh, God, no.

PERINO: And I was standing there, and I'm just minding my own business, watching the dogs, and I see this lady's face and her face falls and she's like, oh my gosh, guess what, another dog named Max was peeing on my boots. I got peed on by this dog at the dog park.

That's why I want to honor National Cat Day. Today is National Cat Day founded by lifestyle expert and animal welfare advocate Colleen Paige. That's my sister's cats, Mogley and Tora (ph). Lord knows what she feeds them because they're gigantic.

So, I think, do we have pictures of Andy's cats?

TANTAROS: There's too many.

PERINO: He has like 19 cats. So, it's kind of hard to put on the screen. Happy National Cat Day.

Now, we're going to your relatives' feline.

BECKEL: Yes, great.

PERINO: By the way, some people pay to have cats pee on them.

Andrea?

TANTAROS: OK, so Saturday night, I had a big Halloween party. Here are some photos. You can see who showed up. There's Miley Cyrus and Billy Ray Cyrus. Yes, they were there.

We also had Popeye and Olive. Yes. That's my sister and her boyfriend Keith.

Also, we had Tommy Lee and Pamela Anderson, many of you know her as Dr. Dendy from my radio show.

See if you can guess who that is? That's Chris Jenner and Bruce Jenner, but who is it? You know her from the FOX News Channel.

PERINO: Ainsley.

TANTAROS: Yes, there's the big reveal. Ainsley Earhart and her husband, Will. They did a great job.

See if you can guess these two. Billy Ray and Miley.

BECKEL: Who did you dress up as?

TANTAROS: That was me and my boyfriend Tim, and there we are in real life so you can see he was the good sport. He wore a mullet wig. That is love.

GUTFELD: Eric?

BOLLING: I go quickly, we're going to run out of time. Red Sox last night, 3-2, go up 3-2 on St. Louis. But don't forget guys, six times, St. Louis has been down 3-2 and guess what happened -- five of six times they won the World Series. So, keep your eye on -- that's Wednesday and Thursday night.

GUTFELD: Bob.

BECKEL: Sochi, the Winter Olympics in Russia and I will nominate today, they had a little PR in Times Square and I went down and tried a few of these things. You'll see me there. Oh, yes, it was really great.

And this poor guy at the end likes Dana a lot. He got crushed. Anyway e we're going to do a whole thing on it storm because it was a lot of fun and I'm hurting like I'm tired. Go ahead.

GUTFELD: Nice.

You know what, I don't have one. So I think we should sing a song. Shall we?

TANTAROS: What song?

GUTFELD: Kumbaya. You start with the solo.

PERINO: We call (INAUDIBLE)

(CROSSTALK)

TANTAROS: Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya --

PERINO: I'm not a songbird.

GUTFELD: All right. That's it for "The Five." Thanks for watching. See you tomorrow.

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