Battleship Brouhaha

This is a partial transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," February 14, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: As we continue "Hannity & Colmes" from San Francisco tonight, the board of supervisors here overwhelmingly voted to reject a plan last year that would bring the historic World War II Iowa battleship right here to San Francisco harbor, as a museum and tourist center.

We're now joined by one of the supervisors that voted against that plan, Gerardo Sandoval is with us.

Welcome to the show. You just said something to me as we were coming on the air. You don't want a symbol of war in the harbor. Is what you said to me.

GERARDO SANDOVAL, MEMBER OF SAN FRANCISCO BOARD OF SUPERVISORS: That's right.

HANNITY: I guess this is just a difference in philosophy. That symbol of war that beat back the forces of fascism in imperial Japan and Nazism, that's really a symbol of peace. Why would you see it as a symbol of war when it defended liberty and freedom?

SANDOVAL: Well, it did do that. But also, it's a warship and it's got guns on it. It fires things. You know, you can't deny what it is.

San Francisco is where we signed the United Nations charter, the original charter, created the United Nations. There are many, many ways to honor veterans and their sacrifice.

HANNITY: I understand that. But you don't have liberty and freedom unless we win that war.

SANDOVAL: Absolutely.

HANNITY: So in that scene — well, then why would you dishonor the men that fought on that ship and preserved your freedom? To say what you want to say?

SANDOVAL: We don't want to dishonor them.

HANNITY: Well, you are dishonoring them.

SANDOVAL: We just don't want to put a 10-story gun on the waterfront where everybody is going to be looking at it every single day.

HANNITY: That gun gives you freedom. That gun ensures your liberty. That gun made this world a safer place.

SANDOVAL: But it could be a flag. It could be a statue. It could be many, many different things.

HANNITY: But is war against the Nazis a good thing? Is war against imperial Japan when they attacked Pearl Harbor, is that a good thing?

SANDOVAL: Well, sometimes you have to resort to violence.

HANNITY: No, no, no. Is war — was war against the Nazis a good thing?

SANDOVAL: Absolutely.

HANNITY: Was war against imperial Japan a good thing?

SANDOVAL: Absolutely. We don't have to put a bomb or a warship right on the waterfront. It's going to be 10 stories tall. You know how tall that is? It's half as big as some of the biggest buildings in San Francisco.

HANNITY: You know something? I guess this is just a philosophical difference. Because you know what? I define peace as the ability to defend ourselves. And you seem to look at that as ship as something negative, not something to be proud of. Not something that gave you a great gift. I don't understand that mentality. Can you explain it to our audience?

SANDOVAL: Well, it's also a fiscal issue not just a symbolic or philosophical.

HANNITY: Yes, hurt that's not the reason. Because a lot of people say it's about money. If I told you the money would be there tomorrow, you would still be against it, wouldn't you?

SANDOVAL: We would still be against it. That's right.

HANNITY: So it's not about money, but you're using it as an excuse.

SANDOVAL: No, no, no. But it's a very real reason. In Oakland right across the bay here, where they brought in the USS — one of the wood...

HANNITY: Would you have the freedom to vote this way, had we not used that ship, that symbol of war as you call it, if we had not won that war? Would you have the ability to even make this vote without that ship?

SANDOVAL: Things would be very, very different. No doubt. But that does not mean we have to put a warship on our waterfront.

HANNITY: Warship? Why don't you call it a peace ship? The peace ship gave you the liberty to be who you are today?

SANDOVAL: Why don't we paint war symbols on all schools if that's the way you feel? So we can honor their sacrifice.

HANNITY: I rarely agree with Dianne Feinstein. And she even says this is not the San Francisco that I know. This is — and I guess this is the mentality. Do you think America should unilaterally disarm? Should we give up our weaponry and our war — our tools of war?

SANDOVAL: You know, that's a very complicated question. But I would say yes, we should. We should invest our money in our kids.

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: This is Alan in New York. Should we not have military?

SANDOVAL: I don't think we should have a military. Absolutely.

COLMES: We shouldn't have a military? Wait a minute. Hold on. The United States should not have a military?

SANDOVAL: What good has it done for us in the last five years? That's right. What good has it done us...

HANNITY: Good grief.

SANDOVAL: ... in the last five years.

COLMES: Gerardo, wait a second.

SANDOVAL: We think about the billions that we're spending in Iraq right now, if we spend it on schools. We should not...

COLMES: The United States should not have a military?

SANDOVAL: That's correct.

COLMES: Are you kidding me?

SANDOVAL: The United States should not have a military. All in all, we would be in much, much, much better shape.

COLMES: You've got to be kidding me. We should have no military, we should have no ability to defend ourselves, we should have no armed forces in this country?

SANDOVAL: Well, we shouldn't have a military that goes abroad and starts wars.

COLMES: You just said we shouldn't have a military. I don't want to give — I'm speaking out very forcefully to you, because I don't want to give the impression that Democrats hate the military or don't want a military. We may disagree with certain wars, like the ones fought now.

SANDOVAL: No, but you said should we give up.

COLMES: But to say that we shouldn't have a military is absolutely absurd. It's incredible. That's a ridiculous fringe point of view.

HANNITY: That's exactly what I was thinking, Alan. Welcome to San Francisco.

SANDOVAL: If you're saying that we don't have a right to defend ourselves that's different from we shouldn't have a military.

COLMES: What do you want to defend ourselves — what do you want to defend ourselves with?

SANDOVAL: Well, you got cops. It's called the Coast Guard. There's lots of things different.

COLMES: You want to send cops to defend our shores if we're attacked? You want to send cops overseas if we're attacked? Cops?

SANDOVAL: You want to send people abroad to start these wars.

COLMES: I don't. Actually, Gerardo, you don't know anything about what I stand for if you can say that. I've been one of the most outspoken people against this administration and the war in Iraq.

But that doesn't mean we as Democrats hate the military or don't want to defend this country. And I'm amaze you could get on national television and say we shouldn't have a military in America?

SANDOVAL: Well, that's the way I think a lot of people feel here in San Francisco.

HANNITY: I've got to tell you, this is a first. You made look Alan look like a hawk.

I'm going to tell you something. If America is attacked, you have no defenses. You have no liberty. You have no freedom. You can't think in such a shallow way. You've got to tell me that this is a joke.

SANDOVAL: No, no. Not at all. I think that what you look at where you want America to go, I mean America has got hundreds of years, maybe thousands of years to go.

HANNITY: Without a military, there is no America. Without — it's not a disagreement. It's a fact.

SANDOVAL: We can imagine an America that someday will not have a military. It might take 1,000 years.

HANNITY: OK. And then when Iran bombs you...

SANDOVAL: But that's what you've got to hope for.

HANNITY: Or when al Qaeda attacks you, what are you going to do?

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