This is a rush transcript from "Your World with Neil Cavuto," August 25, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, we are monitoring this Pentagon briefing going on right now, as crowds continue to gather outside the Kabul Airport.

And we're learning, and the reason why we're paying attention what's coming out of the Pentagon, that CIA, U.S. troops have conducted missions, at least three by last count, outside the Kabul Airport to get Americans out of the country.

This is complicated, though, by the eventual drawdown of U.S. troops in the country, what started out as 6,000 of them now down, we're told, to around 5, 500. Hundreds more will be leaving on a daily basis. So that could make it a little bit more difficult to get people who are trapped outside the Kabul area and want American help.

What's interesting to note as well, and why we're going to go to this Pentagon briefing here, is, in each and every case of these rescues outside the perimeter that the Taliban has set up, the Taliban has done nothing to disrupt those efforts or to interfere at all.

And that's raising concern, at the same time hope, that there could be more of these missions to get more Americans out.

Before I go to John Kirby, another development that you heard in the last hour, this notion that we might have all of 4, 500 Americans left there, that's hard to quantify, and it seems a guess. But if that is correct, it does sort of dispute some of the other numbers that we have seen, furthermore, reports of that there are 1, 500 who might remain, and many of them who might not want to go.

We're going to explore that in more detail and try to understand how that could possibly be. But, in the meantime, let's go to the briefing.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CAVUTO: Interesting developments there just wanted to bring you up to date on here as we're listening on John Kirby wrap up this Pentagon briefing.

And before him was the Air Force General Tod Wolters, the commander of the U.S. European Command.

One of the things that stood out right now -- and it's been a back-and- forth, not only at this briefing, but the State Department briefing -- is exactly how many Americans are we talking about? How many Americans are still in Afghanistan?

We got closer to a number when we heard that 4, 500 Americans have already -- again, 4, 500 American citizens have left the country since August 14, and that there are around 1, 500 Americans still in the country. These were the first hard numbers we got from Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

Furthermore, there are indications that some of those 1, 500, they might not all want to leave, that many in the past have not responded for response or to the urgency of the moment when the government was beginning to look questionable and that it might topple.

But, again, it seems like a bit of a specious argument here, because if some of those Americans didn't respond or file the proper paperwork to get out of the country, they, like the government itself, notably the White House, was not prepared for the collapse of the government, again, so, so quickly.

But, again, if we're down to 1500, here, then you have to try to get a handle on how we're reaching out to those 1, 500, where they are. Kirby was mentioning again about the helicopter rescues, three now, including one yesterday involving a rescue of some 20 largely Americans.

And in each and every one of these helicopter rescues where U.S. troops go beyond the perimeter established outside the Kabul Airport, they have had no interruption and no, no incidents with the Taliban.

So, of course, it begged the question. I believe one of the questions was earlier, will this promote more such activity to get Americans and others who are outside the airport to the airport? There was a limit, I got a sense from the general and certainly for John Kirby himself, as to how much we could do, especially when we are drawing down the number of troops we have.

We started with 6,000, now down to around 5, 500, 5, 600, and phasing them out, hundreds per day, where it all ends next Monday -- or next Tuesday, I should say, when the deadline calls for all U.S. personnel to be out of the country entirely.

Let's get the latest read on this from Lucas Tomlinson at the Pentagon.

These numbers and the figures they're using, they seem startling, but they're sticking largely to this 1, 500 left. Is that supported by others you talk to?

LUCAS TOMLINSON, FOX NEWS PENTAGON PRODUCER: Good afternoon, Neil. That's right.

There's about up to 1, 500 Americans still remaining in Afghanistan. Secretary of State Tony Blinken said they're actively speaking to about 500 of those Americans. The other 1,000, they're not quite sure, but they're aggressively trying to reach them.

Now, Secretary of State Blinken also said he's very concerned about the terrorist threat, Neil.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: They're operating in a hostile environment in a city and country now controlled by the Taliban with the very real possibility of an ISIS-K attack.

We're taking every precaution, but this is very high-risk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TOMLINSON: ISIS-K being the Islamic State branch in Afghanistan, Neil.

At the airport, these young soldiers and Marines are serving as air traffic controllers around the clock, evacuation flights launching every 40 minutes, a race against President Biden's August 31 deadline with less than a week remaining.

Officials say 19,000 people were evacuated yesterday, over 80,000 total since August 14, including 4, 500 Americans, and, again, Neil, as you mentioned, 1, 500 still need to get out.

This video from the 18th Airborne Corps show some of the 5,000 American troops still remaining at the airport in Kabul. Over 400 U.S. troops have already departed. There are dozens of armored vehicles and aircraft, including Apache gunships. I'm told those attack helicopters will be put on transport flights and not left for the Taliban.

That's not the case for the $800 million U.S. Embassy in Kabul now abandoned. Neil, we also learn the U.S. military launched another daring rescue mission using helicopters and special operations forces.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. HANK TAYLOR, VICE DIRECTOR FOR LOGISTICS, THE JOINT STAFF: Yes, so last night, during the period of darkness, there was an operation to be able to go out and safely evacuate evacuees back into Kabul.

It was outside of the airfield, outside of the airfield, in the way that -- and we were able to bring them back to Kabul safely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TOMLINSON: Moments ago, Neil, we learned there were no Americans rescued on that last helicopter rescue mission. The Pentagon's refusing to say just who was rescued -- Neil.

CAVUTO: You know, Lucas, I'm curious about this ISIS-K. It's a splinter group, disaffected Taliban members from Pakistan. And they don't get along with the Taliban right now controlling Afghanistan.

We also know, when the president made his decision to stick to that August 31 timeline, he was basing it on the fears of a terror attack, presumably from this group. So how worrisome is this group not only obviously to ourselves, but to the Taliban?

TOMLINSON: Well, it's a big concern here at the Pentagon, Neil.

This ISIS branch in Eastern Afghanistan, largely in Nangarhar province, has been a threat to the U.S. military for years. In fact, U.S. special operation forces have launched dozens of missions to kill its leaders over the years.

But, as you mentioned, this is an enemy of the Taliban. And there were times in recent years where the U.S. military would fly drone strikes and actually kill ISIS leaders at the behest of the Taliban. This is all part of the Trump administration's negotiations with the Taliban.

It's a bit of a complicated picture, but it definitely is a threat. And it's a very real concern that there's some kind of ISIS attack or from Al Qaeda, which still maintains a presence.

In fact, John Kirby for the second time said that Al Qaeda does remain in Afghanistan, Neil.

CAVUTO: So, Lucas, again, the numbers, I'm trying to get a handle on these numbers. And we talk about the 4, 500 Americans who've left or been evacuated since August 14, and presumably 1, 500 remain, but we do know of close to 90,000 in all who've been evacuated from Afghanistan.

That would appear to me then to be overwhelmingly Afghan nationals, friends of the U.S. government, friends of the former government. Do we have a breakdown of those numbers?

TOMLINSON: Not a complete breakdown, Neil.

It also includes NATO allies. Remember, it's not just the U.S. military conducting evacuation flights.

CAVUTO: Right.

TOMLINSON: Clearly, a majority of them are.

But as you have seen on the ramp there at the Kabul International Airport, there are NATO allies flying their transport flights, not only getting their people home, but also Afghans who helped with, let's say, the Spanish, the French, the British.

CAVUTO: So when they talk about they have been reaching out for quite some time to Americans who were in Afghanistan, warning them weeks, months ago how dicey things were looking, they didn't hear back from a lot of them.

I don't remember the solid number put together. But that could just as much be many of them thinking, well, certainly the government won't collapse so quickly. And that's a sin the administration shared, come to think of it. But is it that they are now unknown whereabouts, they don't know where these people are, they know the number, but they don't know where the heck they are?

TOMLINSON: Well, Neil, recall, on August 7, over a week before Kabul fell to the Taliban, that the U.S. Embassy in Kabul sent out essentially a distress call, warning all Americans to evacuate the country now.

CAVUTO: Right.

TOMLINSON: Clearly, not all of them heeded that warning and remained.

As you have heard, these the latest numbers. Remember, just last week, the White House was saying over 11,000 Americans were still in the ground. That's why for days now here at the Pentagon, State Department, the White House, reporters have been wondering exactly how many Americans are left.

We finally got closer that answer from the secretary of state earlier. On August 14, there were about 6,000 Americans remaining in the country. Today, about 4, 500 of those have been evacuated, which means there's up to 1, 500 Americans still in Afghanistan.

But, as you made the point, Neil, not everybody wants to leave. Now, Blinken said he's -- they have spoken to about 500 Americans. That still leaves about 1,000 more where the U.S. government is trying to reach out to them and wondering just what the plan is.

CAVUTO: You know, I got to wonder -- and I'm sorry to hit you with all these questions, but you're very good at answering each and every one, Lucas.

TOMLINSON: No, it's quite...

CAVUTO: But it bends credulity to think that, if you're an American in this environment, I want to stay in Afghanistan. I can't imagine.

(CROSSTALK)

TOMLINSON: You wouldn't want to be Wardak province right now south of Kabul.

CAVUTO: Exactly, right?

So, I mean, if they -- I would imagine most all of them one out. Maybe...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Maybe there are one or two. As to hundreds or dozens, seems unlikely.

TOMLINSON: Well, as an official explained to me, it's kind of like a hurricane warning.

When -- before the Taliban arrived in Kabul, a lot of people thought, including the U.S. military and the intelligence community, that there would be essentially a ring around Kabul, and that while the country was falling to the Taliban, Kabul would remain secure.

So a lot of not only Afghans, but Americans came to Kabul to shelter. But, of course, Kabul fell dramatically. It was just over 10 days ago. And a lot of Americans were caught off-guard, essentially.

CAVUTO: Right.

TOMLINSON: But that's exactly what happened.

And just like with a hurricane, the community says evacuate, not everybody does. There's always that some person on a roof as the National Guard comes in with a helicopter and emergency hoist as the water levels are coming up to the roof. In this case, it's the Taliban with guns and they're killing a lot of people, Neil.

CAVUTO: Yes. And to your point, once you see the hurricane and the damage it's done, you wish you had gotten the hell out.

TOMLINSON: Correct.

CAVUTO: I cannot imagine a single soul with an American passport is there saying, no, I'll stay, I'll stick this out. But it just -- again, it's amazing.

Lucas, thank you very much, my friend, Lucas Tomlinson following us from the Pentagon.

So how do we get out whatever number of Americans are still there and other Afghan nationals who want out as well?

Let's go to James Miervaldis. He is with No One Left Behind. It's a nonprofit that tries to get folks out of there. Obviously, it's a devil of a time.

But, James, first of all, the numbers not withstanding, I'm just wondering how your group finds these people, however many there are. How do you reach them? How did they reach you?

JAMES MIERVALDIS, CHAIRMAN, NO ONE LEFT BEHIND: Hi. Good afternoon, Neil. Sorry. I'm a little hoarse.

I'm very proud of our team from No One Left Behind who've been up for the last 10 days, very little sleep. We have received thousands now of e-mails, not only from Afghans just reaching out through our e-mail system, but also on Facebook, through WhatsApp, through Signal, but also from U.S. veterans, who are getting inundated with requests and pleas from their Afghan allies, trying to get some answers.

Neil, we have got a list of over 1,000 SIVs. That's Special Immigrant Visa recipients. So these are people that have already been screened. They have their visa in hand. But they have not been able to get into the gates of the airport.

So they're in hiding all around Kabul, and it's heartbreaking. We're trying to do what we can. One last thing for you, sir. We were able to fly out five families before the fall of the airport. That was the previous week...

CAVUTO: Wow.

MIERVALDIS: ... through commercial means. It takes about $10,000 to fly a family out.

We have a donor named Greg Perlman of The Change Reaction who was just frustrated by the lack of progress from the State Department. We knew we had SIVs that had -- again, had visas hand, but had never heard back from the embassy.

So we just started putting people on planes. If the airport remains open to civilian air after August 31, we can continue that process. It's very difficult.

CAVUTO: How do you get to them? Now, let's say they have the paper, they have everything, they're afraid to leave their homes or wherever they're hiding right now. And they know that the Taliban is guarding this ring around the airport.

How do you get them through all of that to the airport?

MIERVALDIS: Neil, we're doing the best we can. We're trying to coordinate as much as we can across other veterans groups, with the State Department.

It really, really is the luck of the draw.

CAVUTO: So I understand luck of the draw. I know you can't get much away on that, I appreciate.

But I'm just wondering. You have the Taliban standing there. Now, interestingly enough, the Taliban has not done anything, even with these night rescue missions, to disrupt these American missions where they go outside the ring and they pick up Americans or, in this particular case, Afghan nationals.

The Taliban has not disrupted that, but they are very eagle-eyed toward Afghans who want to leave the country, particularly those who want to leave with money, that they're so concerned that you can go, but your wallet better stay behind.

So now there's a new element of pressure both on Americans and Afghan nationals, right, the money factor.

MIERVALDIS: Absolutely.

Last I heard, what -- I believe our sanctions on the bank and the Taliban's accounts are still holding. So this is a very dynamic situation. We have heard of people paying bribes to get through to the gate.

So this is the end result of this decision, is that has just completely -- complete anarchy and chaos. This is not what our allies deserve. We're here to support them. It's very hard. And I want to say it just feels hopeless - - or helpless. I have heard that word used many times by veterans.

Now, that said, when the refugees come here, I am just so humbled by the support we have received from corporate America like Walmart, Amazon, Leidos. That's just to name a few who've stepped up and said, what can you do? What do families need?

So the heart of the American people, just as you were talking about in your last piece, it's decent, it's good. We just got to get our allies over here. And I hope the White House is listening is.

CAVUTO: So, I just want to be clear on the numbers. I'm sorry to be a dog with a bone with this.

MIERVALDIS: Sure.

CAVUTO: If we -- we are saying, I think we have got about 1, 500 Americans still in Afghanistan. That seems like a very low number.

But does that jibe with what you're hearing and discovering?

MIERVALDIS: So, we're only focused on SIV holders, that we're very, very focused just on them.

Again, these were their combat translators that had to go through about three-and-a-half years of screening. So, to that point, though, we don't know how many interpreters were evacuated out of the 30,000 that Ron Klain posted on Twitter. We don't -- we haven't heard any numbers from the DOD. We haven't heard any numbers from the State Department.

I can only tell you that we have a list of over 1,000 that have reached out to us around the airport. But we just don't know the breakdown of these numbers.

CAVUTO: All right.

You're doing the lord's work, James. And it's a Herculean task. I don't how you and your guys are doing it. But you're doing it. So, thank you very much for updating us on that.

Just want to bring you up the speed. And I know you're getting a lot of numbers thrown at you here; 19,000 have been evacuated from Afghanistan in the last 24 hours. It involved 90 U.S. military and other international flights to the rate of about one plane every 39 minutes.

I don't know if it is still maintaining that pace. But the argument would be that, at that rate, tens of thousands more could be out of the country certainly by next week, August 31, and the deadline. Now, we started out with 6,000 troops, as you recall, but the flip side of this is, there are going to be fewer troops now as they draw down to help in this rescue effort, complicated by the fact that now we're down to about 5, 500, 5, 600 troops, and that they will be going down at a rate right now of a few 100 at a minimum per day.

To Lieutenant Colonel Bob Maginnis, what he makes of this.

Colonel, I guess what is sticking in my thick skull here is the 1, 500 Americans who supposedly remain. That seems like a low number. I'm not there. You know it well. Does it seem low to you? Does it seem about right?

LT. COL. BOB MAGINNIS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Yes, long ago, Neil, I learned not to believe the first report; 1, 500 does seem low, given all the cataclysmic things we have heard over the last two weeks.

The State Department, of course, it depends upon people registering before -- after they come into a country, tell them where they're going to go. And, obviously, a lot of people don't do that. And so it could be that that number is not terribly reliable. But time will tell.

CAVUTO: Let me get your sense of what's happening. The pace is picking up as far as evacuating people.

But we're not the only country that is saying it's all done on the 31st. Turkey's pulling out right now by -- or essentially that time. Canada is doing so. We do know of elite German forces, British forces who might stay beyond that to try to get their people, but, of course, without the cover the United States, I would imagine that that's an uphill task.

But what do you make of all that?

MAGINNIS: Well, clearly, things are happening behind the scenes.

As you indicated, the Turks have left. The Germans have stopped. We obviously over the last couple of days have used some helicopters to exfiltrate people to the airport. This probably will continue. Whether or not it continues past the 31st is very problematic, because where would we launch from?

Obviously, not Karzai International. I don't know that the Pakistanis would allow us to do that, much less the other neighbors, Iran, China, and the Stans. So it becomes incredibly difficult.

I think what we don't take into account is the fact that there are remnants, not only of ISIS-K and Haqqani Network and so forth, but the old Afghan government. The vice president still there. There is a real effort in the northern part of Afghanistan to start and really ignite a civil war against the Taliban. How do we deal with that?

We haven't heard that reported, but the foreign press is talking about that with some vigor.

CAVUTO: Yes.

There's the business press as well, if you will indulge me, Colonel. On FOX Business, we were pursuing this new order out of the Taliban that Afghans leaving the country better not be taking any dollars with them. Some have said they have gone so far as say, you better not take any money, period, with you, because they have got a serious cash drain.

Of course, accounts have been frozen in the country. They have nothing to fall back on here. But that's more or less another forceful pressure on people. You leave, you go with just the shirt on your back, because you can't take any money with you. What did you make of that?

MAGINNIS: Yes, well, yes, of course, as you know, the banks have been closed, so people aren't going to be able to access any cash that they left there.

CAVUTO: Right.

MAGINNIS: There's hunger. There's starvation.

The Taliban, quite frankly, doesn't know how to run a country. And besides that, as you have indicated, ISIS-K and the old government, with some measurable resistance, is starting to pressure the Taliban. And then, of course, they have the crisis of all these nations trying to get out of there.

This is cataclysmic, I would argue. Even if we get all the people that we think that are still they're out of there, this country is going to be a basket case and, of course, a haven of terrorism and all sorts of cancerous problems over the next few years.

CAVUTO: You know, Colonel, I'm just wondering.

When I heard John Kirby talking about a possible role beyond the 31st, in other words, to rescue Americans or others, it's got to be very unlikely. I know of these helicopter rescue missions, at least three of them. Those were orchestrated to go beyond the Taliban perimeter to get Americans and others out of there.

But once you're past the 31st, who would do it? How would it be done? Would it even be done?

MAGINNIS: We have heard, of course, about the CIA director. We didn't know what he said on Monday when he met with the Taliban.

There have been other negotiations, as I understand, that have been taking place. And even some of what Secretary Blinken said suggests that there may be activities post-31 August. Now, that could be through NGOs. It could be through other countries. We just don't have any clarity there.

But, clearly, there are activities that will continue. But it's going to be under the rubric of the Taliban, who it would appear, based upon the statement out of the State Department, that they're almost to the point of recognizing the Taliban as the legitimate government, in spite of the fact that there are still significant remnants, to include the vice president of the Afghan government, running around in the region and creating, obviously, some havoc and some remnants of what is emerging as a new civil war.

CAVUTO: Yes, and it's ISIS-K to which you allude.

Now, these are disaffected former Pakistani Taliban, right? And there's no love lost between them here. So I guess what I'm asking is, we're out of their, Colonel. What ensues?

MAGINNIS: Well, we're out of there.

And, of course, that -- they're celebrating in Beijing and Moscow, and obviously in Tehran. We, in the past, have been able to help insurgencies. And I think, in this case, we ought to. We should have not sent troops into Iraq in '04 and -- yes, '04. Instead, we should have helped the insurgency.

We ought to fuel this insurgency, because it doesn't help our interests, and it does help the people in Beijing and the people in Islamabad and the people in Tehran.

So there are probably efforts in the Joint Staff at the Pentagon that are looking at that alternative, something that clearly, I think, most veterans would support, given the unceremonious decision to extricate ourselves from there, leaving so many people in a very vulnerable situation.

CAVUTO: Colonel, thank you very, very much, Lieutenant Colonel Bob Maginnis.

Thank you as well, Colonel, for your incredible service to this country and helping clarify what's going on these past couple of weeks in that country.

And to that end, I want to go to my next guest to sort of get a sense of the new Afghanistan, if that's what appears. And if it means that the Taliban is inheriting a country where there could be rival terrorist groups going at each other's throats, it's just really a preview to pure bedlam.

Charles Lister is the Middle East Institute senior fellow.

Charles, very good to have you.

What are we looking at here? When we leave, and hopefully with all Americans who want to leave having left -- and that's debatable -- what is Afghanistan going to be like?

CHARLES LISTER, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Well, first off, Neil, thank you so much for having me.

I think this is the question. And, quite frankly, I don't think we really have a very clear idea yet. First off, when Afghanistan collapsed quite so quickly, and certainly more quickly than most of us expected, the initial fear was that we were going to have a massive humanitarian crisis immediately nationwide.

Surprisingly, we haven't quite seen that yet. My fear, though, is that, several months down the line, when it becomes very clear that Afghanistan under the Taliban is essentially bankrupt, been cut off, as previous guests have said, from the international system, by and large, by the World Bank and what have you, that, I think, could set off a very severe humanitarian crisis.

We could swiftly start seeing population movements to all of Afghanistan's different neighbors. So, I think that's one thing. Of course, the terrorism element, to me, at least as a terrorism analyst, is a particular concern.

It's kind of remarkable that we have essentially press rewind 20 years back, and we have placed Afghanistan back to where it was before, but with a much more intelligent, better trained, more experienced Taliban with more international relationships.

I think, frankly, from a from a C.T., counterterrorism perspective, that's somewhat terrifying, especially considering they still have the relationship they had back then with Al Qaeda and with a whole number of other groups.

And, and as your previous guests have said, ISIS is in the mix now too. And that's a whole new dynamic that we have to worry about. So, really, I think this is a kind of recipe for a number of potential nightmares.

But from a U.S. and NATO perspective, we're going to be sort of watching on from afar with really no meaningful eyes on the ground, as we have had for 20 years. And this kind of over-the-horizon air capability that President Biden has spoken about so confidently, we don't quite, frankly, really have that. So that's my big concern from a security perspective looking forward.

CAVUTO: At times look at the financial conditions to get and make sense of the political ones.

And the reason why I mention that is that these reports now that the Taliban is frantic that it has no money, that it has a lot of weapons, has a lot of stuff from the United States, the old government had, it's now theirs, but they don't have money.

It's gotten so bad that they are ordering Afghans leaving the country to not bring dollars with them, let alone money of any sort, very akin to the Cuba policy when that government was collapsing, and Fidel Castro came in, like what Venezuela had done, like the old East Germany, what it had done.

And there's a pattern to this. And, usually, usually, it leads to desperation and a lot more violence. What do you see happening?

LISTER: Well, I think you hit the nail on the head, in that I don't think really the Taliban quite knows what to do economically.

I think there's something to be said for the fact that perhaps the Taliban's sort of rapid-fire advanced across Afghanistan perhaps took the Taliban itself by surprise. It's been quite interesting to watch the Taliban try to sort of imply the formation or the movement towards forming a sort of new Afghan government.

What's been most surprising is, they have quite rapidly announced the promotion or the appointment of local figures into positions of leadership, but they seem to be really struggling to come up with a nation or a national government.

And I think that kind of speaks for a sort of lack of preparedness on their part, which is somewhat surprising, given the fact that they have, -- they have actually conducted a very effective kind of guerrilla insurgency against the United States and NATO for the past 20 years.

So if they have prepared that little in terms of nationwide governance, then God knows how they have prepared to manage a nationwide economy amidst all of the challenges of ongoing conflict and terrorism and a cutoff from the international financial system.

So, as I said in my first answer, I don't think the Taliban is prepared for this. They don't seem to have a great deal of avenues for optimism financially.

And I do think, from a kind of interesting perspective, that's probably why we have seen the Taliban, at least from a leadership level, try to play ball over the past week or so, in allowing, at least, as I say, from a leadership level, this evacuation to take place.

Of course, we know, on a sort of local level, the Taliban have beaten people lining up outside Kabul Airport, and much worse. But I don't think, five years ago, we could have envisioned the Taliban saying to the United States, OK, by all means, we will secure the roads and you can evacuate your citizens from Afghanistan.

I do think they have a certain awareness that they cannot play bad guy too much, because that will absolutely seal their severing from the international financial system, and probably thus seal their fate as a failed government pretty quickly.

CAVUTO: But it could explain, Charles -- and I'm the one connecting the dots, probably shakily here, so I'll defer to you.

But you have the Taliban leader meeting with our CIA director. Within 24 hours, the president says that 31st deadline sticks, we're not changing it. Maybe what came up in that meeting is, this ISIS-K group that could be or pose a far bigger threat. And there were real concerns about that.

We have these three U.S. helicopter rescues, even though all were presumably at night. The Taliban which is outside that area could have interfered in each or all of them, and did not.

And I'm now combining that with the concern about Afghans leaving and telling them to leave their money behind that the Taliban is actually trying to present itself, all right, I know you hate us, but there's a group behind us that you will hate even more, so just be careful.

What do you think?

LISTER: Yes, absolutely.

I mean, I think they're playing hardball. And I imagine they played real hardball when they met with the CIA director on insisting on August the 31st remaining the -- remaining the deadline. They need to look firm and standing by their red lines.

But, yes, at the same time, there is a sort of desperation their behalf. They are trying to sell themselves to the international community as a whole as a changed actor, as an actor capable of governing, as an actor willing to have international relationships.

I don't quite, frankly, buy it all. I think there is a small part of the Taliban's leadership which has learned the lessons of the past 20 years. And they know that, if they're going to rule and sustain their rule, they're going to need to be smarter and more flexible than they were in the past.

But, frankly, the Taliban isn't an organization. It's a movement. It's essentially an alliance of sort of militia factions. So, we have a quite organized political leadership that is engaged in negotiations with the United States in Doha next door in Qatar.

But the reality is, is keeping that alliance together has been possible because they had that shared enemy, the United States and NATO. That's not there anymore. At the moment, they have this immediate challenge of making sure the international community leaves.

But, in two, three, four, five, six months, that unifying element isn't going to be there anymore. And that's where I worry we're going to start to see chaos unfold.

CAVUTO: Incredible.

Charles, thank you very much. Learned quite a bit. I do appreciate you sticking around to explain the situation.

Charles Lister following all of these developments.

Just to bring you up to date on the numbers before we take a break getting out of there, in the last 24-hour period, with 19,000 evacuated, you essentially had a flight leaving every 39 minutes between military planes and commercial airlines that really came into effect once those folks arrived at calmer destinations, in other words, not Kabul itself.

At that rate, and given the five or so days to go, you maintain a 20,000 evacuation per day, you could get up to 100,000 out of the country. But if we're to believe them, 95,000 -- actually, 99,000 of them would not be Americans. They would be Afghan friends and loyalists.

That's fine. But when you talk about the rush to get people out, the overwhelming majority will not be Americans at all, but they will be Afghan nationals.

Now, the overwhelming majority, we are certain, to think they need asylum, need protection, but some can slip through those cracks, right? In France, they already found one -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER GRIFFIN, FOX NEWS NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: How many individuals on terror watch lists have been screened or found at any of the screening points either in Qatar, Ramstein, or in the U.S.?

KIRBY: I don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: All right, so where are we going from here?

Congressman John Katko, the Homeland Security Committee ranking member of New York.

Congressman, I don't know. There are a lot of I don't knows going on here. But this comes at a time when we're trying to attach a firmer or more reliable number to the Americans left in Afghanistan.

Are you confident in what you're hearing out of the administration?

REP. JOHN KATKO (R-NY): No.

I mean, I think this has been a botched job in the beginning. And so I don't have a lot of confidence at all in what they're saying. And I appreciate everyone's concerned about getting out of Afghanistan. And that's absolutely the tragic results of what's going on.

But we have got to understand the long term implications for the United States from a homeland security standpoint. And those implications are quite profound. And that's something we need to explore more of.

CAVUTO: You know, we do know that, when a lot of people, tens of thousands of them, are trying to leave a country and get the heck out, that, you know, people are slipping through the cracks.

We found the first indication of that in France, where a Taliban loyalist was among those who got off a plane that landed in Paris. I just wonder how many more cases like that there are.

KATKO: No, that's a great question.

And let's not forget, more than 5,000 prisoners were released from prisons in Afghanistan. Most of them were terrorists, high-level terrorists, some of which are housed formerly at Guantanamo Bay.

And we're going back to a pre-9/11 footing in Afghanistan, which, in and of itself, is a huge danger of the United States, because it's going to allow terrorism to metastasize once again and be a breeding ground.

But then we have the open borders on the Southern border right now. If you're worrying about people slipping through the cracks, consider this; 218,000 people cross the border last year -- or last month that we know of. That's not all the got-aways that got into the United States.

It stands to reason that we're going to have that coming into the United States. And that's a huge concern, particularly since this administration won't even tell us about a huge increase in the number of known and suspected terrorists that have been caught at the border before Afghanistan fell.

And that's only -- it's only going to -- it's only going to increase. So, when you say about slipping through the cracks, the Southern border is a gigantic vulnerability, and it's going to have long-term implications for us in the United States.

CAVUTO: I'm just more worried, at least on the time being, of all the people who are just flying freely out of Afghanistan.

And I agree with you, Congressman. The far, vast majority, you hope, is just seeking asylum, their lives are in danger, it's threatening. But we have also heard that, when we're making a big deal about everyone has to have paperwork with them on the planes, in the early days, there were no such good conditions.

We were just trying to herd people on and get -- and get them out. I'm just wondering what protections we have or what you know of how we sorted and vetted those people out, if we vetted them at all?

KATKO: Well, see, that's a great question.

And when we have refugees come into this country, they're generally thoroughly vetted. And it takes a long time. Remember the Lost Boys, who were in camps as kids, and came to my hometown of Syracuse, they spent more than a year of just getting vetted before they were allowed to come in.

I'm very concerned about them cutting corners in that regard. And you're right. We have to do a thorough vetting job, and we cannot rush it.

But the way that this exit from Afghanistan has been handled, I'm not -- I don't have a lot of confidence that that's going to happen. And you're right. Having people caught already that have been taken out of Afghanistan in a rush, we have got to slow down wherever they land outside of Afghanistan to make sure before they step foot on American soil that they're thoroughly vetted.

There's a lot of people that helped save Americans' lives and Afghanistan, and we should take care of them if we can. But we have also got to make sure that bad guys don't slip through the cracks, for sure.

CAVUTO: And you mentioned at the outset, Congressman, just be clear, there were reports that the government in power, that the Taliban-run government in power, had emptied out one prison.

KATKO: Yes.

CAVUTO: Now, whether all of those were Taliban sympathizers and they thought were wrongly imprisoned, we just don't know the details.

But it did remind me, back in the 1970s, of the Cuban boat people, when Fidel Castro essentially did just that, just emptied out the prisons and the rest, and they were the overwhelming majority who made their way to this country.

We hope the same isn't being repeated here. But the Taliban is the group that's processing that paperwork or checking them in at that perimeter outside the airport, so they're the ones, at least in the early stages, getting them through the line, right?

KATKO: Yes, you're exactly right, and that this was so poorly handled.

I think your concerns are very legitimate that there are going to be people that slip through the cracks. And there's so many opportunities for them to do so. And that's the immediate concern.

But I can't stress enough how our Southern border is a long-term major concern, given that we have a terrorist foothold now again in Afghanistan, which I'd like to refer to now is, it's going to be the terrorist headquarters, world headquarters. And from there, they can do a lot of bad things.

And if they can exploit our Southern border, they're going to do that. So we need to tighten up our Southern border. And I don't know if this president has the guts to do that.

CAVUTO: All right.

KATKO: But I -- but we also need to make sure we take it -- take our time thoroughly vetting every Afghani that's coming into the United States through these refugee programs.

CAVUTO: Absolutely, no matter from where you're getting into the country.

Congressman, thank you very much, Congressman John Katko.

It's a good time to bring up my colleague and friend Bill Melugin in La Joya, Texas.

Bill, the recent developments there, and the comments of the congressman notwithstanding, is that now they're trying to say, the Supreme Court is trying to say, continue with adjudicating these cases of those trying to get here and keep them in Mexico, as President Trump had wanted, not in the United States, as, you know, Joe Biden had wanted to do.

I'm wondering whether that's changed the dynamics and what you're covering has changed as a result.

BILL MELUGIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, border agents tell us it's going to have a big impact down here on the border.

And Texas Governor Greg Abbott is calling the Supreme Court's decision a major victory for the state of Texas, because, essentially, what it means is that, from this point forward, when migrants show up here at the border, and they claim asylum, they're no longer going to be able to just be released en masse into the United States with a notice to appear for a future court date down the road.

Instead, they're going to have to go back to Mexico and wait over there for their case to play out here in the U.S. That's what President Trump was doing when he was in office. He said it essentially ended catch and release.

But when President Biden took over, he got rid of that policy. Now the Supreme Court is saying, nope, you got to bring it back. And DHS is already responding to this ruling.

If we can pull up this statement, they're saying, in part -- quote -- "The Department of Homeland Security respectfully disagrees with the district court's decision and regrets that the Supreme Court declined to issue a stay. DHS has appealed the district court's order and will continue to vigorously challenge it. As the appeal process continues, however, DHS will comply with the order in good faith."

And as you take a look at drone video we shot out here in La Joya this morning as migrants were being apprehended, the big question is, how soon will the Biden administration be able to actually implement this ruling? There were rumors over the weekend that this was going to happen.

In La Joya, police out here tell us there was actually kind of a rush on the border over the weekend, with migrants trying to get across last minute. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. JOEL VILLARREAL, LA JOYA POLICE DEPARTMENT: This weekend was very chaotic.

We had in less than an hour about 200 people or more crossing through our areas. We did see a huge spike from Friday until actually yesterday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELUGIN: And then take a look at this photo right here. It looks like a legitimate Border Patrol vehicle, right? Wrong. It's a total fake.

This is pretty bizarre. This is out of Border Patrol's Tucson Sector. Agents there were able to foil a human smuggling plot where that smuggler was able to basically clone a Border Patrol vehicle, dress it up and make it look legit. He had a fake Border Patrol uniform on. And he had 10 illegal immigrants inside the car with him. He was arrested.

They were all taken into custody, but stuff like this happening down here at the border every single day, Neil. We will send it back to you.

CAVUTO: Incredible, my friend.

Bill Melugin, thank you in La Joya, Texas.

As Bill was wrapping up, want to let that Pfizer hopes to strike again with an FDA approval, now seeking it out for its vaccine booster. You might recall that the president is highly recommending Americans who are vulnerable or with preexisting conditions, compromised immune systems, the elderly start getting a third shot, a booster shot in September 20, to be more specific.

And Pfizer is applying to make sure its booster gets the FDA nod, just like its vaccine has, ASAP. Separately, Moderna, which has a vaccine of its own, looking forward to FDA approval as well for that.

So, come next month at this time, you could have a whole lot of FDA- approved treatments for COVID. It's up to you if you want to take advantage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALID PHARES, FOREIGN AFFAIRS ANALYST: Now, the jihadists, not just the Taliban, but other jihadists from around the world, will see this opportunity.

DANNY COULSON, FORMER FBI AGENT: This is an impossible situation for our counterterrorism teams.

CLAUDIA ROSETT, FOREIGN POLICY FELLOW, INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S FORUM: Backing down in front of the border threats from ISIS and Al Qaeda is going to invite worse attacks on the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Taliban, Al Qaeda and ISIS all have the United States in their crosshairs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: The worries grow, and, for the president, so do pressures.

Tom Bevan with us of RealClearPolitics.

And, Tom, does this cascading collapse in Afghanistan has cascaded the president's polls as well, right now, a record low approval of 41 percent for him in a USA Today poll, echoing what others are saying, that he's not only botching it there, but it's hurting him on almost every other issue.

What do you think?

TOM BEVAN, CO-FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE EDITOR, REALCLEARPOLITICS.COM: No, that's right.

We're seeing the numbers. I mean, he's down 47 percent around in our average, and his disapproval rating is now 49 percent. That's the first time that's happened, where he's been what they call underwater, but it's dragging down all across the board

On the economy, in USA Today poll, it was 39 percent, on immigration, 25, Afghanistan 26. So this is a crisis for Biden, not just in terms of Afghanistan, but in broader terms of what it means for his domestic agenda, what it means for the midterm elections.

Democrats are getting pretty nervous about where his -- the trend lines. And so the question is, how low is he going to go? When can he stabilize? And will he be able to recover some ground? We don't know the answers to those questions yet.

CAVUTO: It is hurting his leverage as well, though, right on other matters that are near and dear to Democrats, to say nothing of foreign leaders, who worry about where the leadership will come from on things like climate change and global corporate tax, in this country, that $3.5 trillion human infrastructure plan.

He's wounded right now. And I'm wondering if he's able to bring them over the finish line.

BEVAN: Yes, he is wounded politically right now.

And the other problem, quite frankly, Neil, is part of that is a self- inflicted wound, right? He has -- he promised America during the campaign that he would always tell us the truth. He promised us in his inaugural address that he would level with us, good, bad or otherwise.

And he has been telling the American people things that have been contradicted by his own -- members of his own administration, by reports on the ground, things that just do not square with reality. And so he's generated for himself a real credibility gap.

And that is, again, not just on Afghanistan, but broader, in foreign policy and on other issues. And so that's something -- and that's one of those things that, once you lose that, though, that's very tough to recover, once that credibility is lost.

CAVUTO: I'm just wondering. He seems frazzled. It might be a strategy to talk a little about this as possible, but he seems detached. And it reinforces an image, a criticism that some have had that he might really be detached.

BEVAN: It has raised questions about his competence and mental acuity and all those things.

And the administration desperately wants to change the subject. The problem is, when they try and do that, whether it's to COVID or cybersecurity today, or the vote in the House yesterday, it seems incongruous that they're talking about these other issues, when Afghanistan is all that matters right now in terms of the media coverage and in terms of what Americans are focused on.

And so they're unable to really change the subject and try and get on more solid ground politically. And it looks like that's going to continue for at least a week, if not more, as we continue to see stories about the approaching deadline and Americans that may get left behind.

I mean, this is not over by any stretch for the Biden administration, this crisis.

CAVUTO: Yes, it does linger, and so do those poll numbers.

Tom Bevan of RealClearPolitics, thank you very, very much for that.

Again, the rescue goes on for those still trapped in Afghanistan. Where it goes and how it ends on the 31st, no one knows.

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