'Your World' on Trudeau, Russia-Ukraine

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Trudeau needs to ‘dial down the rhetoric’: Turley

Fox News contributor tells ‘Your World’ the Canadian government ‘marginalized’ protesters to expand political power.

This is a rush transcript of "Your World with Neil Cavuto" on February 15, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SANDRA SMITH, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: President Joe Biden addressing the situation the Russia-Ukraine border, as we await White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki to take questions at any moment now, the president saying a Russian invasion remains a distinct possibility, this as Russia claims it is pulling back some troops.

NATO says, so far, it sees no signs of de-escalation. Lots of back-and- forth here, so what is really going on?

We will ask General Jack Keane in just a moment.

Welcome, everyone. I'm Sandra Smith, in for Neil Cavuto. And this is "YOUR WORLD."

First to Jennifer Griffin. She's at the Pentagon for us. She's keeping track of all that back-and-forth. And she's got the latest developments.

Hi, Jen.

JENNIFER GRIFFIN, FOX NEWS NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Sandra.

Well, this was perhaps president one of President Biden's strongest and most direct speeches. He spoke to the American people about how there would be pain at home if Russia invades Ukraine. It could affect energy prices.

He also addressed the Russian people directly. And he made very clear that NATO is not threatening the Russian people. NATO is not planning to place missiles on Ukrainian territory.

But he said that the NATO alliance is strong, united and would stand firm. He also warned Vladimir Putin, while leaving the door open to diplomacy, that any movement into a NATO Article 5 country would be met with force.

He also sent another message, a very important message, because we have been hearing so much about the potential for cyberattacks, if those cyberattacks were to target any Western infrastructure, any American critical infrastructure, target anything here in the United States, that the U.S. would respond forcefully.

This was a very strong speech. It was the first time that we'd heard that there are now 150,000 Russian troops on Ukraine's border. The president was very clear that, despite the messaging from Moscow that some of those troops had been returning to barracks, that they have seen no evidence of that and that those Russian troops remain in a threatening position tonight -- Sandra.

SMITH: Jennifer, what really stood out to me as well, listening to the president just now, was when he said that we have not verified that some of those Russian troops have moved off the border.

Speaking to military generals like Keith Kellogg just yesterday, he told me that our surveillance that we can pick up on that border would have clearly indicated when the reporting was coming in, as you remember, Jennifer, yesterday that the Russian troops were moving into attack position.

We were not able to confirm that to be the case. But if the aerial surveillance is so good, why wouldn't we be able to confirm right now whether or not Putin is moving those troops off the border?

GRIFFIN: Well, Sandra, based on my reporting this morning, we can confirm that some of those Russian troops remain in attack positions on the border with Ukraine. That does not suggest that an order has been given to attack, but some of them do remain in attack positions.

And we do have the ability to see whether any Russian troops have been pulled back or are moving back to barracks. And that has not happened, based on my reporting, speaking to U.S. officials today. And you also heard that from the president just moments ago, that those troops, there's no evidence that they have been pulled back at this point.

President Biden very clearly wanting to leave open the door to diplomacy, but also not wanting to give any indication that we are in the clear, and that diplomacy is now under way, and that Russia poses no threat to Ukraine.

In fact, officials that we have spoken to today say that this is very much part of the Russian playbook in the past, to be suggesting to talk, while, in fact, an invasion has already begun. So this is not -- they're not taking any sort of statements coming out of the Defense Ministry in Russia at their word. They are waiting and seeing.

And they have eyes in the sky above Ukraine. And they can see that there are now 150,000 Russian troops on Ukraine's border, in addition to very threatening missile systems and aerial bombardment artillery. None of that has been pulled back at this point, Sandra.

SMITH: OK, Jennifer Griffin on the latest situation from the Pentagon for us.

Jennifer, thank you.

Now the read from FOX News senior strategic analyst and former vice chief of staff for the Army, General Jack Keane joining us now.

General Keane, what also struck me listening to the president just now is how he chose to, at one point, speak directly to the Russian people, telling them that U.S. and NATO pose no threat to their country and do not view them as our enemy, even saying -- quote -- "I do not believe you want a bloody, destructive war against Ukraine, a country and people with whom you share such deep ties of family history and culture."

Why was it important for the president just now to directly address the Russian people?

JACK KEANE, FOX NEWS SENIOR STRATEGIC ANALYST: Well, like think he knows full well some things from our intelligence service that, likely there's a number of people, by the thousands, I would imagine, in Russia who travel to Ukraine on a regular basis.

And the idea that their military is going to start killing Ukrainian people, I think, is pretty abhorrent to many Russians. And there's certainly no justification for it. I applaud the president for dealing directly with that issue.

The other thing is, I thought, his tone here and his firmness and forcefulness was just about right, and better than what we have seen before. Certainly, he's left the door open that there is possibly a pathway to a diplomatic solution about that. He's not Pollyannish about it at all. He knows full well we have been dealing with this for weeks and months, and we have had a lot of false starts diplomatically here.

And he knows full well also, based on the report he rendered, there is now 150,000 troops there. There's 500 combat aircraft. There's 40 ships alone in the Black Sea, and significant amount of ground combat troops that are massed there, and, certainly, that invasion option is very real. And he knows full well how intimidating that is to the Ukrainian people, and what could happen as a result of an invasion like that.

Putin has plenty of options left. I do think he's trying to get -- find a pathway and get some major concessions. This is sort of the 11th hour, so to speak, where it's more likely you're going to get concessions. I believe that has been a goal for his all along.

And he's playing that certainly here.

SMITH: Yes, very forcefully, to your point, when you say that you believe the president with his tone really got this right today.

He said -- quote -- "We will put intense pressure on the largest and most significant financial institutions and key industries. These measures are ready to go," the president said, "as soon and if Russia moves in."

General, do you believe that the United States has clearly laid out to Putin exactly how he is targeted if he moves in?

KEANE: You know, I don't know that.

And I have been concerned about this all along, because the president, that's the first time he's been that specific about what he would do with economic sanctions. And I know there's been disagreement with our NATO and European allies as to whether to -- as to whether we should take them out of the international telecommunication system or not.

And there's opposition to it. But I do know this, that the United States acting unilaterally, based on what the Treasury Department can do and what the State Department can do, we can truly hammer Putin, regardless of what the Europeans are saying, in terms of their central banks, cutting off foreign investments.

Their whole system rides on participating in the dollar-driven financial system. We can impact them significantly. The fact that we're going to go after different sectors of his economy, that is a very good thing. There's no doubt we can hurt him. But I don't think the sanctions, in and of themselves, will ever be an impediment to Putin.

He's dealt with sanctions in the past. He knows there's division in the European Union and also in NATO about how to administer them. And he knows this, that, after some pressure is put on, as sanctions are being executed, enforcing sanctions over time takes a lot of commitment and discipline.

He knows that the Biden administration, when they came in, began not to enforce the Trump sanctions on Iran. And that is the world we're dealing with today. So Putin understands all of that. What you say you're going to do, and how you wind up six months from now may be a different matter entirely, because the evidence is in that.

Listen, we missed the opportunity, as we have said before, the idea of trying to deter Putin based on things that we would do after the invasion, as opposed to doing these things starting back in March, when he put the 70,000 to 90,000 troops on the border of Ukraine, and began to hammer him as a result of that provocation.

He has no right to put 90,000 troops on the border of a country and intimidate and coerce the people of that sovereign state, without some accountability. And we were wrong not to have that accountability then. We'd be in a much better position now if we had done that.

But the good news coming out of this, I believe, is that there is a possibility of a diplomatic path going forward. He is certainly not going to interfere with his buddy President Xi's Closing Ceremony on Friday. And we may get to a point where we can get some kind of agreement.

I think we got to be -- take a healthy dose of skepticism here, Sandra.

SMITH: OK.

KEANE: Because we are dealing with the Russians. We're dealing with a thug and a killer who runs the country and a bald-faced liar. And he's a master at deception.

SMITH: Yes.

KEANE: So let's see what comes out of this. There are some issues that we can negotiate over. And, hopefully, we get to some kind of a resolution here, where military force isn't being used.

SMITH: Always appreciate your analysis, General.

And, by the way, the president did reiterate he believes and U.S. analysts believe Russia's forces -- quote -- "remain very much in a threatening position."

So all we can do is still watch at this point to see what comes next.

General, thank you very much.

KEANE: Yes, great, talking to you, Sandra.

SMITH: You too.

Now to Ukraine, where government sites and major banks have been hit with a cyberattack.

Steve Harrigan is in Kyiv. He's got the very latest from there -- Steve.

STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Sandra.

Multiple different cyberattacks, nerves here already frayed, and this didn't make things any easier for people, some people unable to use their bank cards, two major banks hit by cyberattacks, also the Defense Ministry hit as well. It's not clear whether these were Russian government attackers or simply hackers.

In the meantime, Russian President Vladimir Putin said he was pulling back some of his forces from Ukraine's border. He didn't say how many. But he added that, in his view, the real threat to security in the region comes from NATO. Here's President Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We see the forceful constraint of Russia as a direct threat to our national security. And legal obligations based on our drafts are meant to ease that threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIGAN: When it comes to a pullback, Ukrainian officials express a lot of skepticism. They're not convinced that this is a real de-escalation. They say it's something they have seen before, and only really seeing is believing.

President Putin also continued with the diplomatic track. He met with the German chancellor today, who warned that Europe was in danger of repeating its tragic past.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLAF SCHOLZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): For my generation, war in Europe has become unthinkable. And we must ensure it stays that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIGAN: Even though there's talk of de-escalation, the facts on the ground say otherwise. These massive Russian military exercises still continue -- Sandra, back to you.

SMITH: Steve Harrigan live in Ukraine for us.

Steve, thank you.

And we are watching live at the White House right now, where we are waiting Jen Psaki, the White House press secretary, to take questions from reporters. We will take you there as soon as she gets going.

But, first, what are Republican leaders saying after what the president just said?

Senate Minority Whip John Thune will be our guest. He's here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMITH: President Biden outlining the consequences today for Russia if it decides to invade Ukraine.

So, what does our next guest make of what the president just said?

Joining us now, Senate Minority Whip South Dakota Republican Senator John Thune.

Senator, great to see you. Thanks for being here.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Thanks, Sandra.

SMITH: We are awaiting Jen Psaki in the White House. Likely, there will be more questions on what the White House sees happening next with this ongoing situation.

Do you believe there is still a path through diplomacy to de-escalate?

THUNE: I think it's in everybody's interests, Sandra, to find in an off- ramp, if that's possible, that would de-escalate the situation, that would protect you Ukraine's sovereignty.

And I'm hopeful, at least, that there's still perhaps a path forward on that. I think it's hard to know exactly, in any circumstance, what a country like Russia or a leader like Putin is going to do. But I think that the fact that we are projecting a united front when it comes to NATO, that lethal aid continues to be delivered there is providing the context, at least, for Putin to reconsider and rethink this.

And I hope he's doing that. Obviously, again, it's in everybody's best interests if that happens.

SMITH: General Keane seemed somewhat pleased just a moment ago that the president seems to be getting this right with his tone and messaging towards Russia in this moment.

What did you make of what you just heard from President Biden? And is he getting this right, vowing to end Nord Stream 2 and very tough sanctions on Russia if they go in?

THUNE: Well, I'm glad to hear him say things that he should have said a long time ago. The statements about Nord Stream 2 were statements he could have made when they lifted the sanctions in the first place on the pipeline.

And we had a vote on that here in the Senate a few weeks ago, where Senate Democrats could have joined Senate Republicans in putting sanctions on the Putin pipeline. That vote failed. But at least now, it seems, he understands what's at stake here and is taking what I hope are the right steps that would deter bad behavior by the Russians.

But a lot of it has to do with the pipeline. A lot of it has to do with Nord Stream 2 and the energy issues that would impact Russia's economy if they went in. And so he is saying the right things at the moment. And let's hope it will have the desired effect.

I think the Russians initially, at least, saw an opportunity, particularly after what happened Afghanistan, to really test the president, perceived him as somebody who wouldn't be up to taking on this task.

But, again, it's in our country's best interests, it's in the region's best interests and, frankly, for that matter in the world's best interests if this de-escalates and a -- the path forward can be found that would actually avoid a Russian invasion.

SMITH: All right, I want to just squeeze in a couple other topics here, as we await Jen Psaki.

We will likely learn more from the White House in the next few minutes. We will go there when she begins.

But first, Senator, I want to ask you about a couple other things, including your op-ed. "Unmask America's Children: Federal Government Should Not Be Masking Toddlers," you write.

Explain your stance on where things stand on this, as there is still the great mask debate happening all over the country.

THUNE: There is, Sandra.

But you know what's interesting about this is, you now see Democrat politicians going maskless around kids. And you saw a lot of prominent celebrities at the Super Bowl not wearing masks. And yet the Biden administration -- and blue states. And blue states are now starting to withdraw their mask mandates.

The one area that they haven't -- they haven't done that yet on is toddlers. And so we have literally Head Start schools, 1,600 of them around the country. The president is proposing a regulation that would require toddlers under the age of 5 to wear masks.

And so I got a piece of legislation that would prevent that from going into effect. We don't think that 2-year-olds ought to have to wear masks, particularly outside.

SMITH: Yes. I know you feel...

THUNE: And this would require that.

SMITH: Yes, I know you feel very passionately about that.

Senator, we appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

THUNE: Thanks, Sandra.

SMITH: We're going to move now to the White House, where Jen Psaki is holding the daily briefing. She's taking questions now.

Let's listen.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

SMITH: All right, you have been watching the White House press briefing with Jen Psaki there taking a lot of questions, a majority of the questions on the Russia-Ukraine border.

Jennifer Griffin joining us now from the Pentagon.

You tell me what you heard there. A big chunk of it initially was about bringing down gas prices. And Jen Psaki said all options are on the table. She was asked about a gas tax holiday. Nothing to predict for you at this point.

It's just interesting, Jen, because we know that energy is at the very center of the conflict that we are seeing on the Russia-Ukraine border. And, as a result, we're seeing a rise in energy prices globally. But you tell me, what was your takeaway from what we just heard?

GRIFFIN: Well, I think it really was a follow-on to what we heard from President Biden.

President Biden was very clear to Americans that if Vladimir Putin gives the order and his forces invade Ukraine, there will be pain here in the U.S. in terms of energy prices, there will be pain in Europe, but that we stand firm in terms of the principles at stake.

A country cannot violate the sovereignty of another country and invade without NATO and the U.S. leading NATO to stand up to that country. And there will be issues in terms of disruption to the energy markets. That's something that Putin has factored in.

Remember, Vladimir Putin has about $630 billion in his coffers because of the high price of oil. That is how he's been stocking away those reserves. And he knows that, I think, when he met with the German chancellor today, he might have expected to hear a weaker message or thought that he could peel the German chancellor away from NATO.

But I have spoken to German officials after that meeting. And the initial reports -- there were some misleading reports on Twitter suggesting that the German chancellor had suggested that he had agreed that Ukraine would never be a part of NATO. And I'm told that that is absolutely not true and not the message that Olaf Scholz, the German chancellor, delivered to Vladimir Putin.

So I think Putin is testing NATO. They're -- he's testing each one of these leaders who come to Moscow. He's testing to see if there's any breaking point. And, right now, NATO is holding strong.

But what President Biden warned is that there could be disruption to energy markets, and that we will be prepared for that, and that the U.S. government is prepared for how to counteract that. That's why they are cutting deals for LNG, gas that can be put into reserves inside Europe, so that -- to sort of counteract if, in fact, Putin goes in and there's disruption to the gas markets.

SMITH: OK.

We will continue to bring our viewers any news from the White House as we get it on the ongoing situation the border of Russia and Ukraine.

Jen Griffin live at the Pentagon.

Thank you, Jen.

Switching gears now to Canada, trucker protests ramping up, despite the latest crackdown.

To FOX's Alexis McAdams. She's live in Ottawa. She's been in the thick of it right since the get-go. And she joins us now.

And it is still cold, Alexis. Hello.

ALEXIS MCADAMS, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Sandra, hello.

It is cold. And I think, if I'm in Canada any longer, I'm going to have a Canadian accent.

But the Ottawa police chief resigned today. So that's the newest information that we're getting right now from the capital city, so the city here without a top cop, as protests rage on.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANE DEANS, CHAIR, OTTAWA POLICE SERVICES BOARD: ... be at work to put in place a new command structure, and we will be appointing a new chief very soon.

The board's priority is to ensure a plan is put in place to bring about a peaceful end to the occupation of our city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCADAMS: But still seeing lots of truckers out here, Sandra, and they tell me they're not going anywhere.

This does come as the Emergencies Act is now in place for the next 30 days. So what does that mean? Take a look here at your screen. This is what we can tell you about what will happen here in the next 30 days.

It says this will authorize banks to freeze and suspend any account that's suspected of supporting those blockades, prohibits unlawful public assembly and gives federal police more powers to ticket, tow and also arrests.

Now, the government tells us this is a targeted effort aimed here at the capital city in Ottawa and also at those blockades near the border entries connecting United States with Canada. It's focused also, the government says, on finding groups that they believe are mixed in and are prepared to use violence to overthrow the Canadian government, like this group that was arrested in Coutts in Alberta.

Take a look there. You can see those are the guns that were seized at that Coutts blockade just in the past few days, 13 people arrested after they found weapons and even a machete inside of that trailer. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO MENDICINO, CANADIAN MINISTER OF PUBLIC SAFETY: An illegal blockade is not about the vaccines or the mandates. It's about a very small organized group who are trying to upend our way of life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCADAMS: Now, no violence here in Ottawa at this point.

And the convoy that I have talked to here on the ground and the leaders tell me they're doing everything they can standard and make sure there are no weapons inside of the trucks here. But we're still keeping a very close eye on what's happening here on the ground -- back to you.

SMITH: OK, thank you, Alexis.

I want to get right to our FOX News contributor and George Washington law professor Jonathan Turley on this rapid expansion of Canadian government powers.

Dying to know what you thought of it, Jonathan.

Hello.

JONATHAN TURLEY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I thought it was -- hello.

And I thought it was quite excessive. This is an act of civil disobedience. That is a standard tactic of groups going back to the civil rights movement and even earlier to block bridges and streets, to do what was referred to as -- quote -- "good trouble."

And so the troubling aspect of what is coming out of the prime minister's office is that, by this rationale, they could have cracked down on the civil rights movement. They could have arrested Martin Luther King

I mean, I think that the office needs to dial down, not just in its rhetoric, but at the means that it is using. By freezing this money, what the government is doing is preventing other people from supporting a protest. These are Canadian citizens who have gone to their capital to engage in acts of civil disobedience.

The government can clear the roads. They can arrest people who are blocking the roads. But they have gone to an extent here that treats these protesters as if they were terrorists.

SMITH: He's doing this, apparently, in a bid to end the protests. But it only seems to be building their case, Jonathan. You have heard the truckers speaking out after it.

Some of them say, we're leaving our jobs just so we can continue with this convoy. It seems to have fired them up even more.

TURLEY: That's right.

I mean, for people who are joining what they call a Freedom Convoy, the government is fulfilling the stereotype. It's fulfilling the fear that these truckers have that the government is becoming increasingly draconian, even authoritarian. And that's why these measures are so heavy-handed and unnecessary.

This is a prime minister who supported BLM protests. The BLM regularly takes over streets, blocks areas, even occupies areas. But you didn't have Prime Minister Trudeau declaring them to be terrorists or U.S. politicians for that purpose.

I mean, it seems to me that these people feel marginalized and voiceless. And you're magnifying those feelings with these heavy-handed efforts. They have frozen millions of dollars in donations of people who want to support this cause.

SMITH: I just wonder where you think this all goes next. It seems like the obvious question.

And we're in the second week of this now. I mean, and they have faced frigid temperatures, and they just keep on. And now Trudeau does this, and they seem to gain strength. I mean, where do you see this movement going, Jonathan?

TURLEY: Well, I'm more worried about where the government's going.

Trudeau has used this as reason to claim control over everything from banking to cryptocurrency. And it seems like a crisis that's being used to expand political power. But what really worries me is that the media, the government have marginalized these protesters.

I favor vaccinations. But I share something with these truckers, in the sense of a right of free speech and association. It troubles to me how they're being treated. And it's going to magnify their sense of marginalization. And that's when people get angry, and they get detached from the government.

I think the Trudeau government has gone the wrong way in addressing these truckers and their cause. They can demonize them, but all they will do is marginalize them. And they will get very little effort at any type of consensus or dialogue.

SMITH: You know, it's remarkable what you just said. We have heard from so many of those truckers. I have had them on our program in the afternoon, who many of them say, just like you, they favor vaccines. They don't like the overreach.

And it's an interesting parallel to a message we have seen here.

(CROSSTALK)

SMITH: Well -- yes, go ahead, Jonathan.

TURLEY: Yes.

I mean, the problem is that everything -- all these avenues are closed off to these truckers. On the Internet, they are being banned and they're being vilified. Well, if you close the information superhighway, some of these people are going to just go to the highway. They're going to get into their trucks as their only way of voicing these concerns.

And I think the media bears some responsibility for this. They have cut off these protesters. They won't give an equal treatment and a voice to their cause. And I think that they have magnified the tensions.

And the Trudeau government has just thrown gasoline on this fire.

SMITH: I think that's fair.

Jonathan Turley, Professor, thank you very much for joining us. Appreciate it.

TURLEY: Thank you.

SMITH: We will keep watching it.

Coming up, U.S. Army Reserve Lieutenant Colonel and former Democratic presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard on those Russia-Ukraine tensions, what she's making of what we just heard from the president.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMITH: Migrant apprehensions continuing to explode along the Southern border, a CBP source telling FOX News encounters in the Del Rio sector are now up 200 percent compared to the same time last year.

FOX News correspondent Bill Melugin is live in La Joya, Texas, for us with more.

Hi, Bill.

BILL MELUGIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Sandra, good afternoon to you.

That's right, Del Rio sector been incredibly busy lately. That's where border agents actually saved the lives of a Haitian family this weekend as they were drowning in the Rio Grande. If we can pull up this harrowing video right now, take a look, this video courtesy of the Eagle Pass News Leader.

This happened in Eagle Pass Saturday morning. A mom, dad and little girl tried to swim a cross. They went under the water. Agents jumped in, rescued the mom and daughter.

What you're looking at here is the father, who was unresponsive under the water. Agent jumped in, pulled him to the shoreline. And you can see they performed CPR on him in an effort to save his life.

Very happy to report that all three of those family members survived, mom, dad and 5-year-old girl all alive thanks to the efforts of those Border Patrol agents.

Elsewhere along the border, take a look at this photo out of Border Patrol's Tucson, Arizona, sector, where a single large group of 112 migrants was encountered all from Central America, 70 unaccompanied kids mixed in with that group.

Then, also out of Border Patrol's Tucson, Arizona, sector, a big fentanyl bust, border agents there arresting a Mexican national who was smuggling these fentanyl pills under his clothes while he was writing public transit, a shuttle to the Tucson area, those pills worth $85,000 on the street. DEA Phoenix now handling that case.

And, lastly, if we can pull up this mug shot here, border agents also arresting a convicted child rapist who crossed illegally into Arizona. His name is Alejandro Lopez-Bautista. And he was previously convicted of raping a child in the state of Washington.

Back out here live. Very busy in Del Rio over Super Bowl weekend.

SMITH: OK.

MELUGIN: More than 3,400 apprehensions -- send it back to you.

SMITH: All right, Bill Melugin, live on the border.

Tulsi Gabbard next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If Russia does invade in the days and weeks ahead, the human costs for Ukraine will be immense. And the strategic costs for Russia will also be immense.

If Russia attacks Ukraine, it will be met with overwhelming international condemnation. The world will not forget that Russia chose needless death and destruction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMITH: Reaction now with former Democratic presidential candidate and Army Reserve Lieutenant Colonel Tulsi Gabbard.

Great to see you, and thanks for being here.

FMR. REP. TULSI GABBARD (D-HI): Thank you.

SMITH: First up, what's your reaction to what we heard from the president? And where does that leave us with this conflict?

GABBARD: President Biden is not addressing the number one question that really he should address, which is the American people wondering, what is this going to cost us here at home, and why are we doing this? Why is the president making the choices that he's making?

The reality that we're facing is that, already, with this increasing confrontational approach that the president is taking, we're seeing inflation rise, we're seeing fuel prices rise. Those things will only continue to get worse if the United States and partners start to put sanctions in place against Russia.

We will see our inflation continue to worsen. We will see Russia retaliate. We will see them likely use cyber warfare against our financial institutions, against our infrastructure .The United States will then have to retaliate. And we will end up in this endless cycle of tit for tat that will hurt the American people in ways that are difficult to even estimate at this point.

And the danger of this, ultimately, is these kinds of tactics that are tactics of warfare could ultimately escalate to the point where it's the United States vs. Russia, two nuclear-armed countries, where, either intentionally or unintentionally, we could end up having to face that reality of nuclear warfare and attacks.

SMITH: If we weren't a part of this fight, where does that leave Ukraine?

GABBARD: Well, here's the reality that we need to be addressing here, which is, what is Russia's foremost concern?

Their foremost concern is about NATO and the United States placing their troops and missiles and so forth on Ukraine's border. And they see that as a security threat.

President Biden is in a powerful position right now, where he could immediately take action to de-escalate this whole situation by stating the truth, which is, Ukraine will likely never become a member of NATO. Why doesn't he just say that and guarantee it and say, you know what, NATO and the United States are not going to make Ukraine the next military outpost, and, by doing so, alleviate this crisis and prevent the American people and people in other parts of the world from facing the suffering that will come about from this continued escalation?

SMITH: There is obviously consequences to the United States if we were to see this become an actual all-out war. There's obviously many consequences.

But you bring up the energy picture. And if you were to see that gas never flow through the Nord Stream 2 pipeline to Germany, which is becoming highly dependent on Russia for its energy resources, Germany would have to essentially turn to other European nations for their energy.

That would create a squeeze in Europe and, therefore, a squeeze on global energy supplies, which could impact us here at home. Is that worth the fight?

GABBARD: It is more than a possibility, Sandra. It is a likelihood that this will occur.

That is exactly the track that we, the American people, will be facing. We're already, families -- working families are struggling right now. It's not the politicians or the big corporations who are struggling. It is working Americans who are struggling and seeing this thing play out and wondering, why isn't anyone looking out for our interests?

Why aren't they clearly stating, hey, how are we going to prevent this disaster and this crisis from continuing to escalate, punishing and creating suffering for people who are already struggling right here at home just to make ends meet every day?

SMITH: Does it behoove us to allow Vladimir Putin to gain more control?

GABBARD: I think it's -- I think that's missing kind of the core point here, which is, again, Russia's foremost concern is the United States and NATO placing a military outpost on its borders within Ukraine.

Given it is highly unlikely Ukraine will ever become a member of NATO, let's just look at the world in these realistic views and picture and say what is not going to happen. The U.S. and NATO will not put their outposts, military outposts, on the border of Russia and Ukraine.

SMITH: Well, we have certainly given...

GABBARD: That serves everyone's best interests.

SMITH: We have given Putin a bit more control in recent years, I mean, when you look at the energy that we are currently purchasing from Russia today vs. just a few years ago, up 56 percent, our purchases from Russia.

That is a quickly changing situation under this administration that we're watching as well.

Tulsi Gabbard, we're out of time, with all the breaking news. And I appreciate the conversation.

Thank you.

GABBARD: Thank you.

SMITH: Thanks so much for joining us. And that's all that we have time for today.

Be sure to catch me tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. on "AMERICA REPORTS" with John Roberts.

Great to be with all of you today. I'm Sandra Smith in New York.

"THE FIVE" STARTS right now.

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