'Your World' on trial of Kyle Rittenhouse

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Ted Williams: It was worth the risk putting Rittenhouse on the stand

Fox News contributor Ted Williams reveals a 'fatal error' the Kenosha prosecutor may have made in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial on 'Your World.'

This is a rush transcript of "Your World" on November 10, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, Trace, thank you very, very much here.

Want to take you right back to this Kyle Rittenhouse trial that has really riveted the nation right now, and revelations that Rittenhouse is saying again and again that he was acting in self-defense when he fatally shot Joseph Rosenbaum last year in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and one other here, but indicating right now that -- against harsh questioning, that he felt that his life was in danger.

Now, I want to go back to the front, because they are outlining some of the defense remarks, and also whether Kyle Rittenhouse himself has been consistent.

Let's go.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CAVUTO: All right, they're going to take a brief break here.

They're back and forth. And the judge has done this a couple of times with the prosecution here about understanding their intent and repetitiveness. But the upshot of today before this break is that Kyle Rittenhouse has said again and again: I did nothing wrong.

He's defending himself in this issue here, and that his behavior was far from provocative, he was doing it to protect himself on the night of August 25, 2020.

What's interesting here is how this is unfolding.

Tom Dupree, the former deputy assistant attorney general, on how this is progressing.

Tom, it's interesting because the judge is in a very active role in trying to keep this on message and consistent and not wandering afar, but he was particularly going after the prosecution here.

Where do you -- where do you see that going? Because it's not the first time he's done this. This is at least the third time. What do you make of it?

TOM DUPREE, FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: That's right, Neil.

And that is one of the things that's jumped out at me a little bit watching the proceedings today, is that the prosecutor on many occasions seems to have gotten a bit crosswise with the judge, both in terms of his overall trial presentation, also with regard to specific questions that he was asking Kyle Rittenhouse.

It's a bit surprising to me, because, as a prosecutor, one thing you always want to avoid is getting crosswise with the judge, both because he will make adverse rulings to you, and also because it colors how you present your case.

So I think, today the prosecutor has really gotten at loggerheads with the judge, which may ultimately come back to haunt them as this case moves ahead.

CAVUTO: You know, how do you think Rittenhouse is handling himself up there?

DUPREE: I think he's done what he needs to do, Neil. He has given answers that are concise. He's explained the reasons why he wanted to travel to Kenosha that night. He's given a fairly careful account of what happened and what he saw and what he perceived.

And I have noticed that the prosecutor has been asking him a lot of leading questions, such as, you intended to kill these people, correct?

And he's done a good job of saying, no, that was not my intent. I did not intend to do it.

So he hasn't fallen yet for any of the traps that the prosecutors have been setting for him today.

CAVUTO: So there's always a great risk when you do something like this in the defense and you put your client up there to take the questions.

In that regard, on the part of the defense to do this -- I believe he's the seventh witness, albeit the most important ones thus far. Was that a good move?

DUPREE: So far, it seems to be playing out as the defense had hoped.

One thing to keep in mind, Neil, is that the centerpiece of Kyle Rittenhouse's defense, of course, is self-defense. And I think it would be exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, to put on a self-defense case without, in this case, actually hearing from the defendant himself about what Kyle Rittenhouse saw that night, why he did what he did, how he perceived things.

They have to make that case to the jury in order to make their self-defense case. So I think it was smart for them to put him on, both to build that case, and also just to give them a chance to tell his story to the jury.

CAVUTO: Tom Dupree, thank you very much, my friend.

To Ted Williams right now, the former D.C. homicide detective.

Ted, I'll ask you the same question I just asked Tom. The wisdom of putting Kyle Rittenhouse on the stand. For the defense, worth the risk?

TED WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, under the circumstances here, Neil, from what we have seen today, I think it is worth it.

You don't ever, if you are a defense attorney, want to put your client on the stand unless it's necessary. In these circumstances of a self-defense case, where you're going to claim self-defense, you normally would want your client on the stand to explain to the jury just what was going on.

And I can tell you, Neil, I listened to Kyle Rittenhouse this morning when on direct his all lawyers cross-examined him -- or examined him, should I say. And they did a superb job. I thought Rittenhouse did a very good job in his testimony.

And when I say he did a good job, the thing about it -- and we need to understand, what is the definition of self-defense? It is you, the individual, being in fear of great bodily harm. And Rittenhouse went through step one, step two and step three with the individuals that he shot to show that he was in fact in fear of great bodily harm.

CAVUTO: Now, he did say that Joseph Rosenbaum, who he had shot and killed, he felt he had hostile intentions toward him, later on quoting this Joshua Ziminski, who had Rosenbaum: "Get him and kill him."

So, clearly, the defense is setting the stage he didn't enter and come to this event with the intention of harming or killing anyone. He felt threatened himself. Is that argument holding up? If you're in that jury and you're hearing all of this, what do you think?

WILLIAMS: I think, at this stage, it is clearly holding up.

As you know, he's now on cross-examination, meaning that the government's attorney, the prosecutor is cross-examining him. The prosecutors seem to be all over the place.

The prosecutor in this case, I believe, Neil, may have made a fatal error, when he asked him, why didn't he speak up earlier? Kyle Rittenhouse had Fifth Amendment rights, the right to remain silent. He did not have to speak up earlier.

And that, I believe, was very prejudicial. I think it very well could, in the near future here, lead to a mistrial or dismissal of this case with prejudice. When you say with prejudice, meaning that the case cannot be brought again, and the judge may very well make that decision, pursuant to some of the -- quote, unquote -- "stupid questions" that the prosecution put on in this case.

CAVUTO: Thank you very, very much for that, Ted Williams.

Mike Tobin has been following this from the beginning.

Obviously, we talk about a period and a night that -- that it was getting a little bit antsier, and then the temperature was rising as the night ensued. Clearly, the prosecution is trying to frame it otherwise, that Rittenhouse's behavior was provocative, in and of itself.

How is this being interpreted for the people you talk to?

MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, in terms of people we're talking to here outside the courthouse, most people have their heads buried in their notes. You have a bunch of reporters who are busy with their own tasks. And you have Kyle Rittenhouse's mother, who shed a tear.

But talking about the temperature of that night, one of the quotes I remember giving to my cameraman that night is, "Put on your vest because somebody will get shot before the end of tonight."

And as it stood -- as it stands, you can -- in fact, in that video, in the still pictures of Huber hitting Rittenhouse with the skateboard, you can see my cameraman in the shot. We were right up in it that night. There was a lot of heat that night. And it was clear that there was certainly the potential for violence on that particular night.

As far as how Rittenhouse has held himself together on the stand, I think most people are pretty surprised that, other than the part where he fell apart, he seems to be pretty composed. And he's not taking the bait when the state is trying to get into intent, trying to get him to say that he intended to kill someone who intended to use deadly force.

Rittenhouse continues to say that he intended to defend himself, Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, got it.

Mike Tobin, thank you very much.

We are monitoring this.

There are other big developments today we're keeping an eye on too, including the president talking about this supply chain disruption that is certainly embroiling the country right now, inflationary numbers out today, for example, that just hit more than 30 -- you heard me right -- 30-year high.

Let's get the latest right now from Jacqui Heinrich at the White House on how the administration hopes to address this and they say solve this -- Jacqui.

JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Neil.

Yes, we're about to hear President Biden at the Port of Baltimore sort of paint a rosy picture about the economic and jobs growth over his 10 months in office. He's also going to talk about some of the supply chain efforts that he's made to get things moving, lower prices and address shortages. He is going to frame the bipartisan infrastructure bill that was passed and we now learned he's going to sign into law with a bipartisan signing ceremony on Monday as a coming solution to all of these problems.

But this new data from the Labor Department is really putting a damper on the president's victory tour here, showing that inflation hit a 31-year high, jumping point 0.9 percent last month, after also climbing in September. The Consumer Price Index showing prices for food gas and rent rose 6.2 percent from a year ago. That is the highest since November of 1990.

Data also showed inflation is eating Americans' paychecks. Weekly earnings fell 0.9 percent in October. And that's despite a 0.4 percent increase in hourly earnings.

Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, whose swing vote the president needs to pass his reconciliation tax-and-spending bill, is challenging the administration's narrative that inflation will taper off.

He tweeted: "By all accounts, the threat posed by record inflation to the American people is not transitory and is instead getting worse. From the grocery store to the gas pump, Americans know the inflation tax is real and D.C. can no longer ignore the economic pain Americans feel every day."

Now, the president in a statement blamed high energy costs on this report, but did not promise any new action there. He said the FTC is on the lookout for gas price gouging. His Economic Council is looking for other remedies. But he said the report shows the need to pass his reconciliation plan to reduce the cost of child and eldercare and get Americans back to work.

Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg also said that supply chain problems and labor shortages have persisted because of the pandemic and because of lack of affordable child care.

Meantime, there's more evidence that the supply chain issues are getting worse and not better. Forbes has reported that Americans received over $2 billion, billion with a B, out-of-stock messages while they were online shopping in October.

And, also, a market research firm showed in-stock rates right now that you're seeing at the grocery stores and stores, they're similar to what we saw in March of 2020. That was the height of the pandemic. And everyone remembers what those bare shelves looked like at that time, so really interesting to note that the price -- the place we're at right now with that rate is similar to the high of the pandemic -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Incredible.

Jacqui Heinrich, thank you so much for that.

Again, we're waiting to hear what president's ideas are for dealing with the supply chain disruption. They are confident that they -- there will be goods on shelves and stocked aplenty by the holiday season. Is that doable?

Let's go to Tulsi Gabbard, the former Hawaii congresswoman, also former presidential candidate.

Congresswoman, very good to see you.

FMR. REP. TULSI GABBARD (D-HI): Nice to see you, Neil.

CAVUTO: What do you make of what's been happening here, the inflation issue that's just not stopping, the supply chain disruption that also isn't stopping?

The president appears caught flat-footed here. What do you make of it?

GABBARD: Well, you mentioned that their answer to this crisis that everyday Americans are facing across the country is to pass this massive multitrillion-dollar bill.

But the reality is that this bill is only going to make the problem worse. Our government is already too powerful. It is already too bloated. And what this bill is going to do is make inflation worse. It's going to increase the national debt. It's going to make things harder for small businesses.

And, ultimately, it's going to make people more dependent on a government that already is encroaching too much in every -- every -- almost every part of our lives. So, I think it's more important to actually start to look at, how do we actually solve the real problems here, rather than the direction they're taking, which is, hey, let's just throw more money at it and think that government is going to be the answer to everything, when we know for a fact that it's not.

CAVUTO: There's a -- I don't know if a battle is a fair word, Congresswoman, but this battle, if you will, or disagreement between progressives in your party and those more moderate -- I think I would probably put you in that latter camp -- who are worried that this is just going to create more problems than it solves.

But progressives are still pushing for a package closer to $2 trillion. They're still pushing for this, think they have the votes to pull it off. Let's say they do. What is your worry?

GABBARD: Well, those numbers, those numbers are almost meaningless. Those numbers have shifted. Is it $1 trillion, 2, 3, 7?

And you look at them trying to manipulate the language in these bills to try to cover the fact that we don't know how much this is going to cost. We don't know still, as we sit here today, what is actually going to be included in this bill. And the language that they have put forward in this framework is so vague that, ultimately, what will happen is, you will end up with a bunch of bureaucrats who are unaccountable to the American people, making decisions about how our taxpayer dollars are being spent.

This is a fundamental problem that we have seen with all of these ideas that they're putting forward, unaccountable bureaucrats being more empowered to put their noses into our everyday lives. Meanwhile, taxpayers, we end up paying them for them actually taking away our autonomy and micromanaging us.

CAVUTO: Close to half of Democrats -- and this was before what transpired in Virginia and in New Jersey, the closer-than-expected gubernatorial contest there -- didn't think that Joe Biden would be their ideal presidential nominee in 2024.

How do you feel about that?

GABBARD: I think that the American people, it's clear, as we saw in Virginia, is actually a positive sign that they're rejecting the kind of divisiveness, racialization of everything in this country, the fomenting of anger and hatred that, unfortunately, we're seeing coming from so many of my fellow Democrats.

And they're standing up and saying, hey, we want to choose an optimistic future, a hopeful future, a future where we can live up to that dream of Martin Luther King about judging each other by our character, not by the color of our skin, respecting each other as fellow Americans, and Democrats and Republicans actually coming together to work towards a shared goal, a shared objective of doing what is best for the American people and our country.

That's the direction that we need to head in. And I think the Virginia governor's election was a positive indication of voters taking a stand and letting their voices be heard through the ballot box.

CAVUTO: You know, we will be going to the president very shortly, speaking right now on this supply chain disruption, Congresswoman.

But James Carville says the problem wasn't like a right or left issue, but this increasing lecturing on the part of the Democrats, this wokism that he says is hurting the party, damaging its message and just doing much more harm than good.

What did you make of that?

GABBARD: It's -- it's true.

When you have people in positions of power who arrogantly believe that they're not accountable to the people and who treat us like we're stupid, like they know better, they know best what's -- what's good for us more than we know ourselves, and all we have got to do is blindly follow along and listen, it's no wonder that people are rejecting that.

If there's no respect for us as individuals, as Americans, coming from our leadership, then how could they expect that we, the American people, should offer any respect or trust towards them in what they're -- and their agenda, and their agenda being one, unfortunately, that is more about serving their own selfish interests, more power, their political interests, than really where it should be directed, which is exactly on addressing these challenges and frustrations that the American people are facing all across our country?

CAVUTO: Is this the same Joe Biden who is president today who you were running against as a candidate for president?

GABBARD: I have considered Joe Biden a friend for many years.

And I have been disheartened to see the direction that he's taken in this administration that is undermining the fundamental principles of our country, that is actually tearing our country apart, rather than working to bring us together, to find our way forward and have respectful dialogue, even as we may have disagreements or differences on different issues, but come together as Americans, treating each other with respect.

And I think that's -- it's something that makes me sad, to be quite honest.

CAVUTO: Tulsi Gabbard, thank you very much for taking the time.

Very good seeing you again.

GABBARD: Thanks, Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, we have been monitoring of the president right now. He is speaking about all these problems with the supply chain at the Port of Baltimore.

The president.

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CAVUTO: All right, you have been listening to the president of the United States speaking at the Port of Baltimore right now, commenting that he's on top of the supply chain disruption in this country, says it's not really on him or the administration, just the boom we had coming out of the pandemic, essentially going from stop to something like 60 miles an hour, paraphrasing here.

That's been a traditional argument to use for this bottleneck. Obviously, it's a lot more layered and complicated than that. We also discovered in the process that so many of the goods that we were planning on getting, most of them come from Asia, and, notably, China. And the administration had been warned about that, the reliance on these goods from a country with whom our relations had turned noticeably tense.

So, no surprise they might be holding back some of those items. It also didn't take into account an administration that some say was caught flat- footed on the comeback from the pandemic, knowing that going from stop to something that is not even close to that would prompt the demand for goods and services, that they should have been telegraphed.

That is an argument a number of Republicans, even, indeed, Tulsi Gabbard Democrat, a moderate Democrat, at that, was addressing with us prior to the president speaking.

One other footnote on the president's remarks, he does believe that the bipartisan infrastructure-only plan will address a lot of this. But he kept emphasizing a lot of the jobs to be created will be union jobs, dismissing talk of $15- or $17-an-hour jobs to those that could go for $45 or more an hour. That might be a bit of sticker shock to a lot of employers who directly or indirectly will be part of this.

But, again, it was a reminder that this is a short-lived event, as the president sees it, has met with the leaders of Walmart and UPS, FedEx and Target, among others, to say right now that shelves will indeed be well- stocked this holiday season.

Now, Americans are not seeing any of that right now. They're not seeing it in cheaper prices. In fact, we had a retail inflation number out today that showed inflation running at the strongest clip since 1982, when Ronald Reagan was president.

Let's go to Lee Carter on all of this.

Lee, I mean, his whole approach was better times are coming, we will get over this, all of these problems are reflection of an economy that's firing on all cylinders.

I don't know if that helps with those who stop by a gas station and see what they're paying for gas or walk into a grocery store and see what they're paying for, well, everything. But what did you make of the message?

LEE CARTER, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: I think that there's a poll right now that talks about how President Biden does not focus on the issues that matter most to American.

Six in 10 Americans -- three in five Americans, that is -- basically say he's focused on the wrong things. And I think this speech was really one sort of a case in point of that. He focused to begin with really on jobs and why infrastructure is so important, talking about jobs.

When you talk to the American people today, jobs aren't the top of the issue list right now. We have record low unemployment. Jobs are not the problem. The problem is inflation. The problem is empty shelves. The problem is people really concerned about what it's going to cost to put Thanksgiving on this year.

People are really concerned about these issues. And he didn't address that until much later in the speech. I think he really buried the lede.

The other thing that we see right now is that Americans are saying, yes, I support the infrastructures plan. Across the board, it's wildly popular, but only one in four Americans say it's actually going to help me and my family in our daily lives.

What he tried to do is make a connection to say, this is actually going to improve all of these problems you're having. But he really buried that. And it was hard to hear it. It was hard to say the things that are most important to me are going to get better.

I didn't hear him say, I feel your pain. I didn't hear him say, I hear your anxiety or I feel all of these things. And I think that's what people are really longing for. They're longing for leadership, saying, I understand the problem, and I'm here to solve it for you.

That didn't come through.

CAVUTO: He said something again today about COVID and the impact it's had. There's some truth to that, that, obviously, the more people were stricken with that and factories were working at half or less capacity, obviously, that affects the number of goods that get to people. There's a delay effect. I get that.

But there was little acknowledgement to simply being caught off-guard. I'm not saying that the administration in power, whoever it is, should be prescient to all of these things, but it was well-noted that any comeback from where we were and stopped where we were would lead to a boom in demand and, obviously, address a situation that we obviously were caught off-guard on.

But it was like an out for him. And I wonder -- it sounded very similar to the similar pitch he made or the other pitch he made yesterday about rising energy prices, just throwing out there the possibility of gouging going on, not with any proof of that, or that the FTC is going to look into that, but that, in case Americans are wondering what's happening when they get to the pump, and they see what's happening here, and they see what's happening in stores, that may be part of it, it has nothing to do with the administration, nothing to do with being caught off-guard, and maybe something to do with, in that case, gouging.

In other words, sometimes, if you were to come out as a leader and just say, I got to admit, folks, I expected that a boom in the economy. I wasn't prepared for this kind of boom in the economy. And we're now rectifying that.

But I just found that a little surprising.

CARTER: Well, I think that would require a certain amount of authenticity, right?

And that's -- that takes a big risk on behalf of a leader. But that's what leadership is about. I mean, it is -- if you're caught off-guard, you have got to be honest and own it, but tell us how you're going to make it better. And I don't feel -- I feel like there's a lot of shirking of responsibility that happens. It's not my fault that we're here.

It's somebody else's fault. It's the prior administration. It's COVID. It's the companies that aren't acting in a good way. It's all of -- anybody else's fault but mine.

The American people don't care whose fault it is right now. What they feel right now was pain. And they elected Joe Biden to make it better. That was his promise. I'm going to build back better. I'm going to make things better.

And when people feel like things are worse as a result of his leadership, it's not going to matter whose fault it was that we got here. At the bottom line is, the buck stops with him now. What is he going to do to make things better? And that's it.

So I think the idea that he's going to continue to try and say, this isn't my fault, that rings typical politics as usual. And that's what people are tired of. We don't care how we got here. Let's figure out how we're going to get out of here. And whoever can make that case...

CAVUTO: It's very hard the way that he threads the needle here, but I think you and I both are reminded of the John Kennedy situation after the Bay of Pigs.

You could argue, as a new president just a couple of months into the job, he got this plan that was technically concocted under the Eisenhower administration. But he was the commander in chief. He did implement it. He did approve of it. He admitted that it was a mistake. It was all on him.

His poll numbers went up 10 points doing that. Maybe we live in such a different age, that's harder to do. But I think the American people would be very, very understanding to that argument. Look, you had this recovery going. You didn't appreciate maybe the magnitude of it or the restraints this could put on a system. And now you're catching up with that.

I think we overanalyze these things and say, well, that's OK. The American people are forgiving. But when you deny that or avoid that, I don't know if it really helps your cause.

CARTER: I think you're right.

And the other thing is, talk about what you are doing. At the very end, he started talking about, we can't rely on these other countries. We can't rely on China.

Tell us what you're doing to make it better. Americans are amazingly forgiving people. If we feel like you have gotten it now and you're going to make it right now, we're going to be on board. So, if you're going to do the things that are going to make the supply chain issues go away, that we're going to start feeling like we can go back to normal, we're going to be forgiving.

So let's own the mistake, move forward and show us how you're going to make it better. It's a simple blueprint. He didn't have to talk as long as he did. It could have been much, much shorter and much more effective if he just focused on those things. I don't know that the American people are going to know what to take away from that message, that he's really got our back, that he's really got this under control, that things really are going to be better at the pump, at the -- when you're paying your groceries, when you're paying your utility bills, all the things that people are feeling so much pain right now.

CAVUTO: All right, thank you very much.

Before we go back to the Kyle Rittenhouse trial, guys, I do want to go to Grady Trimble, because the final part of this puzzle, what's caused these great concerns for Americans, is what's happening with heating oil, energy in general. And that is not reversing.

Right now, Grady, there doesn't seem to be any help on the way.

GRADY TRIMBLE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: No.

And the forecast is bad news this winter, Neil, no matter what you use to heat your home. Here are the numbers. If you use propane to heat your home, you're going to see the biggest spike from last winter, up 54 percent compared to a year ago, heating oil up 43 percent, natural gas up 30 percent, even electricity for heating your home up 6 percent compared to last year.

These numbers could get even worse if it's a colder winter than expected. The number there you see is the Consumer Price Index for energy specifically. It's up 30 percent compared to last year. That's the biggest one-year jump since 2005.

And part of what's causing the rising prices in the energy sector is this mismatch between oil supply and oil demand, which has basically recovered to pre-pandemic levels. But many Republicans in those in the oil and gas industries, they say the Biden administration isn't helping matters as it pushes for more green energy, at the expense of fossil fuels.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL TURNER, FOUNDER, POWER THE FUTURE: The decisions made by the Department of Interior, decisions made by the EPA, as well as the White House, that have either stifled production or they have scared off investors.

And political rhetoric, political action has consequences. Sometimes, those consequences take four or five or six months to be felt, but we are feeling them now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TRIMBLE: And the Energy Information Administration says, even if this winter is warmer than normal, Neil, you can expect to pay more for your heating bills, just not as much more.

So I guess that's some good news to end on.

CAVUTO: Yes, and the infrastructure package does not address that particular aspect of that.

Thank you very, very much, Grady Trimble.

We're ping-ponging here for good reason. There are so many things happening concurrently.

Back to the Kyle Rittenhouse trial going on right now. The prosecutor has been in an aggressive back-and-forth. You probably heard about the judge going after the prosecution. Let's see how things stand right now.

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