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Companies severing ties with Russia

Former Chrysler CEO Robert Nardelli explains corporate re-shoring and the connection between the supply chain and inflation on ‘Your World.’

This is a rush transcript of "Your World with Neil Cavuto" on March 2, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Blasts rocking Ukraine again today, reports of a Russian airstrike near Kyiv's southern rail station, this at the same time we're getting word day seven and stalled, reports that Russian troops and that big tank convoy you have heard about aren't moving very quickly.

In fact, at some points, it stopped. There's no way to know, but what we do know is, this is probably not where Vladimir Putin thought he'd be a week ago.

Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto.

And on top of some other startling developments we want to share, a little later, we're going to talk about a big oligarch. You have heard about them, these rich billionaire Russian businessmen who are now sanctioned to the point that they can't get money. One found a creative way to do so just today. Sell a soccer team.

You will never guess who he is, how close he is to Vladimir Putin and where he thinks the net proceeds from that sale should go. Here's a hint: not to Russia.

All right, we have got you covered on all these other dramatic developments with Trey Yingst in Kyiv. We have also got Jennifer Griffin at the Pentagon.

We begin with Trey -- Trey.

TREY YINGST, FOX NEWS FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: Neil, good afternoon.

Tension remains high tonight in Kyiv. Another cruise missile was intercepted over the city. People are starting to feel this war at their doorstep here. And it is getting ugly. We do know they are bracing for the days to come.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

YINGST (voice-over): Vanya (ph) was born this morning at 10:00 a.m. as air raid sirens sounded across Kyiv. Now he rests next to his mother in the basement of a maternity hospital.

For families who are staying in the Ukrainian capital, the days ahead are expected to be bloody and violent. They're bracing for the worst.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The world, who can help us, help us, save us?

YINGST: As new lives are brought into this world, the war is taking others out. Across town, five people were killed overnight in Russian missile strikes, bringing the total since the invasion began to more than 2,000, according to state emergency services.

Overnight, a Russian missile slammed into this building next to a television tower in the capital of Kyiv. The air campaign against this city is getting heavier, as ground forces get closer. With the threat from Russia present inside the city limits, the Ukrainian territorial defense remains on alert, while the bulk of Russian forces are staged outside of the city.

Every car that passes must be considered suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They're coming from different sides. A lot of people came here before the war started. They rented places to live and were getting prepared.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YINGST: Street battles have already taken place in the Ukrainian capital. Today, soldiers are trying to block the roads leading into the city using barricades, sand and anything they can find -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Trey Yingst, thank you very much.

Now to Jennifer Griffin at the Pentagon, where there is some concern, is that the language we're hearing out of top leaders in Russia about the so- called nuclear option or at least mentioning the word nuclear a lot more these days. What to make of that.

To Jennifer right now.

Hey, Jennifer.

JENNIFER GRIFFIN, FOX NEWS NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Neil.

Well, the Pentagon just announced that it is postponing an upcoming intercontinental ballistic missile test, that -- one of those Minuteman missile tests -- in order to lower the temperature and show that the U.S. is a responsible nuclear power press.

Secretary John Kirby reminded everyone and reminded Putin that no one would win in a nuclear civil war. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: But this decision was the secretary's decision, and it was based on making sure that we were being very clear about our responsibilities in the nuclear realm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: The ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Jim Inhofe, criticized the decision -- quote -- "The decision to cancel routine unarmed reliability test of the Minuteman III in the face of Russian bluster. Test is critical to ensure our nuke deterrent stays effective. Deterrence means detecting strength and resolve, not sacrificing readiness for hollow gestures."

A senior U.S. defense official tells us, from what they are seeing, there has been very little progress made by the Russian military inside Ukraine in the past 24 hours. That convoy remains stalled. And there are reports that soldiers were sent into Ukraine from Belarus with just three days' worth of food. It's now day seven. Evidence of supply line issues continue to manifest and fuel shortages.

And then there is the stiff Ukrainian resistance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: To the Russian soldiers sent to the front lines of an unjust, unnecessary war, I say, your leaders are lying to you. Do not commit war crimes. Do everything you can to put down your weapons and leave Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: That was the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.

Take a look at these Ukrainian nuclear workers who have set up roadblocks and are using their bodies to block the roads leading to their nuclear facilities. This one is in the center of Ukraine. There are 15 active civilian nuclear facilities in Ukraine.

The Russian military has not achieved air superiority yet. The Russian military has not been able to use its combined arms munitions and any integrated way, we're told, not a lot of integration from the air to the ground. The Russian air force has been somewhat ineffective because Ukraine's air defenses remain intact.

U.S. defense officials cannot confirm the use of cluster bombs inside Ukraine so far. These weapons, which Putin has used in Chechnya and Syria, were banned in 2008 by 107 nations that signed an international treaty known as the Convention of Cluster Munitions. The U.S. is not a signatory either.

The U.S. is monitoring any potential movement of Putin's tactical nuclear weapons. A senior U.S. defense official tells us they have seen nothing to cause the Pentagon to believe that the strategic deterrent the U.S. and NATO already has in place, their own nuclear weapons, is enough -- is not enough.

No changes to the nuclear posture, Neil.

CAVUTO: But, Jennifer, are they concerned at the Pentagon that, the longer this drags on -- and we don't know exactly what the detailed plans are of Vladimir Putin -- the more likely he will resort to not only targeting civilians, but maybe beefed-up weaponry?

GRIFFIN: Well, we're already seeing him target civilians.

So that ship has sailed.

CAVUTO: Right.

GRIFFIN: But what they are concerned about here at the Pentagon and elsewhere is that he's going to employ those thermobaric weapons, those vicious vacuum bombs that suck the air out of people's lungs.

They have been used in Chechnya and Syria by the Russian forces, and they are considered -- the use of them is considered against the Geneva Conventions. And then ,of course, there are cluster bombs, which are vicious in and of themselves. They have seen the launchers for those thermobaric weapons be moved into Ukraine.

They have not seen the weapons themselves yet.

CAVUTO: Jennifer, thank you very much.

I want to go to Volodymyr Omelyan. The name might be familiar. He is the former Ukraine minister of infrastructure, decided to leave his wife and family to fight the good fight, even though he is risking his life doing so, emblematic of so many Ukrainians we have had on this show who are ready to wage the same battle.

Minister, it's very good to have you. Obviously, you're putting your life on the line, as are so many of your fellow countrymen. You're asked this often. Why?

VOLODYMYR OMELYAN, FORMER MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE OF UKRAINE: Good afternoon. Good afternoon, America.

Actually, it's deal of honor or business of honor to protect your country. And, definitely, we do understand that, if we resist all as one, we will win the story.

Russia attacks us in different ways. First, they tried to destroy our army. They failed. Now they try to destroy our nation and civilians, threatening them with terrorist attacks and just shooting at the buildings with all types of weapons they have. We already yesterday, day before yesterday, registered two missile launch of vacuum bombs near Kharkiv and Okhtyrka.

And I would say that this maniac is very close to use nuclear weapon. I would love also to say that it will never happen, but let's say many people would say that Putin will never attack Ukraine, but he did.

CAVUTO: Yes, you're right about that.

But, Minister, I'm curious. We hear about this 40-mile-long convoy making its way to Kyiv. We also hear that there might be a reason why it's taking so long, that many on that convoy, many Russian soldiers aren't keen on the mission. Many of them just found out about it within hours, at the most, days ahead of the attacks last week.

Do you know anything about that or what you're hearing?

OMELYAN: You know, if we catch Russian soldier and unarm him, they say that, oh, what a surprise. But anyone knows that we are in Ukraine. We thought it was like a training mission happening in Russia.

But they are lying to us, because Russia is always about liars, cougars and killers. They know where we are. And they know where they are. The problem is that really they are disoriented without proper supply. And what is the biggest surprise for them, they never expected such a high level of resistance from army and ordinary people.

People are meeting them unarmed and stopping tanks with open hands. And our army and territorial defense, to which I belong, we simply kill them. And it's a big surprise for Mr. Putin, who thought that he is most welcomed in Ukraine. No.

CAVUTO: You know, Minister, it's interesting, too, because, by now, one of the earliest goals of Vladimir Putin was to shut down any communication that Ukrainians like yourself could have with the world.

And because he has failed at doing that, and, in fact, he hasn't even put a dent in that, people like you and some of your brave compatriots have been able to tell the world what the heck is going on. Are Ukrainians sensing that the tide is turning or that that's worrying Ukrainians, because it means that Putin could get more desperate?

OMELYAN: You know, is the only thing we know for 100 percent, that we should fight.

And if we don't fight, we will be occupied. This is a very plain motivation for us not to surrender. And maybe it's also a big frustration for Mr. Putin, because his blitzkrieg in Ukraine was supposed to take not more than one or two days, and he was hoping to get a new president appointed on the third day.

It never happened. And it will never happen. And taking into account the serious economical problems which Russia faces right now, I believe that there are more and more each day people in Russia thinking of how to replace Putin, with coronavirus, maybe with some regular staff of Russian leadership by poisoning, or maybe with some other tools.

But I would say that great change is going to happen soon.

CAVUTO: Yes, you might be right about that. We saw a little hint of it today.

Minister, I want to thank you very much. Good luck.

OMELYAN: Thank you.

CAVUTO: God be with you and all your fellow very, very brave compatriots here.

OMELYAN: Thank you.

CAVUTO: I did mention that very, very briefly.

We're going to talk about what's happening to the oligarchs, all of Vladimir Putin's rich friends, who now aren't so rich because they can't get their hands on their money. One had a novel solution to that today. The implications of that, we have coming up a little bit later on, to the minister's point about people bolting from Vladimir Putin, including his riches buddies.

In the meantime, speaking of rich and money, this is something you don't see happening in financial markets very often, stocks going one way and oil going one way. They usually go in opposite direction. In other words, when oil prices rocket, stocks are usually down, just the opposite when the opposite is going on.

Today, they were both up appreciably, oil advancing to better-than-decade highs, stocks advancing nevertheless, on a belief here that maybe things will stabilize, and that the Central Bank will be able to control this.

But I really want to draw your attention to something that doesn't get much attention. And that is, we all focus on oil and natural gas and all that stuff. But I want you to focus instead on things you don't put in your car, but you do put in your belly, you do put in things like this that really matter a great deal, not the crude oil part of that, but the wheat part of that, the corn part of that, lumber a separate story.

But what we're seeing happening right now, because they're volatile day by day, but this year alone oil better than 43 percent, wheat up better than 37 percent, agricultural commodities themselves -- and I talk about wheat and barley and soybeans -- they're volatile, but they're going up double digits.

So not only do you have to worry about what's going on at the pump. You're going to have to worry about going on at the grocery store, because, when those move up, there isn't too long of a delay before it shows up at the grocery store that you have already seen.

What's going on there and how far it goes and the pain it's causing in Russia because of that, something we're going to get into with Jack Keane.

Yes, the general is here -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, we still have really no idea how the course of this war will go.

We do know that the United Kingdom is sick of how it's going thus far and is leading an effort to investigate Russia's so-called war crimes. The U.K. has -- quoting here -- "galvanized allies to refer atrocities in the Ukraine to the International Criminal Court"; 38 nations have now grouped together to expedite this investigation.

And this does not have to be sequential with the resolution of the war still going on, now a week-old, in Ukraine.

Reaction right now from our General Jack Keane, kind enough to join us.

General, I know I just hit you with this. It shouldn't be too startling, but it would be concurrent with condemnations of the war and Russia's actions already. The war criminal issue, though, and citing and going after Vladimir Putin directly, what do you think of that?

JACK KEANE, FOX NEWS SENIOR STRATEGIC ANALYST: No, I think it's absolutely the right thing to do this.

We shouldn't be waiting until after this horrific event that's taking place. Let's deal with it as it's going on it. And it also -- I mean, it's a way of informing the world what's taking place and developing world opinion against what Putin is doing.

I would also say that it's perfectly within our rights to go after the generals that are also using these weapon systems. And that will put considerable pressure on them. We have from our intelligence sources -- and this administration has been very forthcoming about some of the information that we picked up certainly from Russia -- that there is some serious dissension in the ranks of certainly the senior leaders and also policy- makers, the frustration that they're having.

But I also think -- the frustration they are having with their operation is one thing, but I also think that Putin forced this kind of an operation on them.

And what I mean by that, something that could be done in two or three days, topple the government, and not have to deal with becoming an international pariah, end it quickly, but he didn't have the military capability and the resources and I also think the leadership to do that very effectively. His general staff is nowhere near you know what it should be.

But, yes, I totally agree with the basic premise. Let's highlight what's going on. Let's get the process going. This is a war criminal. He's been a war criminal since 2000 in Chechnya. He did it again in 2015, where he -- and Chechnya, it was 8,000-plus civilians. In Syria, it's tens of thousands of civilians.

It's actually horrific. We never really had a lot of knowledge about it because the international media, Neil, largely ignored it. But it was happening in Aleppo and Idlib province. And we'd get pieces of it, but not the everyday, unrelenting view of what is taking place almost by the hour, which we're doing here with Ukraine.

So, yes, this is the right move.

CAVUTO: You know, we had a former Ukrainian minister on who's done -- joined the fight there, as have so many other government officials, present government officials, stars, celebrities of Ukrainian descent. But he had an interesting take on this controversy about this convoy making its way to Kyiv and reports that some Russian soldiers didn't know their mission or are slowing that mission because they said they had no idea what they were up to.

He didn't believe it. He was saying, Russians are liars, all Russians are liars. Essentially, he was saying it's a head-fake. What did you think of that?

KEANE: Well, I really don't know.

I do know this. I mean, there are serious problems, certainly, operationally. The logisticians have not planned this operation to support the very ambitious operational campaign plan of attacking on four axes simultaneously. The road -- the off-road conditions are certainly a factor, because this is -- this is this convoy is road-bound.

It doesn't even make sense the way it's distributed. You see the vehicles there three abreast. Normally, if this was a U.S. movement taking place here, we'd have traffic going in both directions. We'd have traffic control points. We'd have security right and left. And we'd have traffic going in both directions because you bring supplies forward with trucks.

You bring empty trucks back, you take fuel up, you bring empty fuel trucks back, you bring casualties back. This -- I have never seen anything quite like this in all my years in the military, what's unfolding in front of us.

I do know they are making some progress, albeit very slow. They're -- Neil, they're beginning to envelop Kyiv right now on the west side of the river and also on the east side. They're starting at quite a distance from Kyiv, in excess of 30 miles. That's quite surprising. But they certainly intend to cut the city off.

And I do believe at some point we're going to see area attack weapons used in some degree of density to rubble the buildings and certainly to demoralize the inhabitants there and, unfortunately, take likely hundreds or possibly thousands of casualties, and then move in the combat operation forces to take over Kyiv.

It will be a fierce fight, for sure. What they're trying to avoid by using their area attack weapons, which are rocket artillery and long-range artillery and also obviously gravity bombs and some precision bombs from the air, is avoid the neighborhood-by-neighborhood, then block-by-block, and building-by-building fight to take over the city, which is very high casualty producing.

That is what they are trying to avoid, because they know full well that the Ukrainians are going to defend, not only their neighborhood. They're going to defend every block and they're going to defend the buildings. And it'll be quite an urban fight.

And the Russians have enough experience to know that an urban fight is -- it takes a lot of troops to execute. It's close combat. It's the most dangerous type of combat, because the defenders, obviously, have plenty of places to hide with all the buildings and facilities there. They just provide natural cover and concealment, as much as the fighting positions do outside of a city.

So, yes, this is an enormous challenge that's taking place. They're also beginning to encircle Kharkiv and they're on the outskirts of the city with combat forces. They're circling Mariupol in the south now as well. So this is a pattern that they're having. And, eventually, they will move into Mariupol. That's on the coast. That's significant.

Kherson, close to the coast, they have taken in the south, and they're going to move from there to Odessa. And that's a major port city in the south, and it's reflected on the map you have on the screen there, Odessa, right to the left the red area there.

In that way, they will -- and that's a significant objective when they achieve that, because they will have cut off Ukraine's ability to receive supplies from the sea with -- and, certainly, that has been the way that their economy flourishes, with their exports certainly using mostly seaborne cargo ships in taking care, as the breadbasket of Europe, certainly.

So that's what's unfolding before our eyes. It's very slow. They brought some of this on themselves, but you got to give credit also to what the Ukrainian resistance is certainly doing to them.

CAVUTO: All right, and if you're right -- I have no reason to think you're not, General -- that resistance really going to have to up the ante for what could be coming very, very soon.

General, thank you very, very much. Good catching up with you on this.

By the way, the old analogy is, if you want to squeeze the big guy, you got to squeeze the other guys around him by going after in Russia the oligarchs, the fellow billionaires. One did something remarkable today that if -- well, if I were Vladimir Putin, I'd be worrying about today -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: Royal Caribbean is going to stop cruises to Russia. It's just the latest in companies saying, we are out of here.

I say the latest. It won't be the last.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: You know the name Roman Abramovich? Well, in soccer circles, he's well-known. He's a rich Russian oligarch who owns the Chelsea soccer club in England.

And he did something rather dramatic today. He sold the club. He sold his interest in the club. He's trying to raise some money, obviously, but he is the first major Russian oligarch who has been doing something like this.

But what's more interesting about Mr. Abramovich is where he wants that money to go. Net proceeds, he said, should go to benefit all the victims of the war in Ukraine. Ouch.

As an oligarch, he is among a select few among the world's richest men and associates who knew and liked the administration of Vladimir Putin who appears to be saying, enough, this financially is killing me, and he is not alone, and others could follow. That could be a very, very significant development.

And doesn't our Charlie Gasparino know it?

Charlie, what do you make of this?

CHARLIE GASPARINO, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Let's just say you're a really rich dude, you're worth billions, and you can't spend it anywhere but in mother Russia. And I think that's the problem that these guys have.

If he knows, Mr. Abramovich -- and you could go down the list. I don't know all the -- I know the names, but they're Russian names, long Russian names that I -- that are not household names to all us, but you can easily find these.

All these folks have tremendous amount of properties outside of Russia for a reason. It's the free world. It's kind of fun to hang out in London. It's kind of fun to have a yacht in St. Barts, and that's what -- or in the Caribbean. And that's what they do. They want to enjoy their wealth.

And one of the interesting things and the best part of these sanctions, it's making it less -- they're making their enjoyment a lot less. And, as matter of fact, it may be cutting off their enjoyment, depending on how far we go with these sanctions, how far -- how much they might have to sell their properties in London.

Will they be able to dock in any port around the world, except for maybe on the Black Sea, which Russia controls? I mean, it's very interesting what's going on here. And you can see it in their statements. They are running away from this.

I mean, the victims of the Ukraine war, I mean, who are they? Those are Ukrainians, innocents? And just think about it. If you're a really rich Russian guy, do you really want to be associated with Vladimir Putin, who is killing children and women? I mean, that's essentially what's going on right now.

So, from a business standpoint, this is horrible business. They know it. It's just -- I mean, obviously, the endgame hasn't played out yet. Do they figure out a way to get rid of Mr. Putin before they can't go anywhere?

I mean, let's just look at it this way. You're these really rich guys with companies, all -- and you want to be part of the international community and enjoy yourself anywhere in the world. Are people going to open to you in open arms if Vladimir Putin kills 10,000 women and children in Kyiv?

I mean, that is what they're looking at right now. I mean, who wants to be associated with this guy? He's at a -- at that point, he becomes a madman. He has never laid out a rationale for doing what he's doing. It's all made- up stuff. The whole world knows this is a joke or just a blatant attempt to gain land and extend an empire.

And he's doing it at the cost of women -- the lives of women and children. It's really pathetic. There is no rationale. So, that's all bad business.

I wonder now, Neil. And this is where it gets really interesting. What American companies can continue to do business overseas? Can the banks -- excuse me -- in Russia. Can the banks do business in Russia? Can the big asset management companies? And they all have offices there. Can they do business in a place that is run by a mass murderer?

And I think that is really what's up to Citigroup, which has some significant business ties over there. That's up to J.P. Morgan, my good friend Jamie Dimon. That's up to Larry Fink, my friend Larry Fink from BlackRock, all of them. Can...

CAVUTO: Yes, they might reassess all of that, Charlie. You're right.

Thank you very, very much, my friend.

GASPARINO: I don't know how they don't.

CAVUTO: That's the very issue -- exactly.

Let's see what Bob Nardelli thinks about this, the former Chrysler CEO, former Home Depot CEO.

To Charlie's point, Bob, this idea that these companies -- forget about what they're doing now -- and we're going to be rifling through a list here of all those who have already said they're bolting from the area or dropping investments in the area.

But that this might not just be a short-lived event, that that companies like Royal Caribbean that stopped cruises, or companies like Ford and GM that stopped selling cars in Russia, or Apple that stopped selling anything in Russia, that this might last a while, that, as long as Vladimir Putin is in charge, they want nothing to do with it.

What do you think?

ROBERT NARDELLI, FORMER CEO, CHRYSLER: First of all, Neil, welcome back. It's great to have you back on air.

CAVUTO: Thank you.

NARDELLI: I think Charlie makes a great point.

I know that you mentioned GM and Ford. I know Jeep is thinking about the same thing. When I was at Chrysler, we had a big program to try and bring Jeep to Russia. Probably going to pull out of there now, would be my guess. I don't know for sure. But I think you're going to see a lot of that, a lot coming out of there.

I think just the humanitarian cry and the outrage that the general was talking about earlier and Charlie, you just can't put up with that, particularly today, when ESG is so important, and we're talking about having a purpose, having a culture, having an understanding of what's important to your employees, both on what's the mission and what's the -- what's important relative to the environment that you're creating?

I think there's going to be an overwhelming outcry among employees across the U.S. to do something like that. I really do, Neil, for sure.

CAVUTO: So I'm wondering then what the impact is on them, because I want to flip it around on you, Bob.

I mean, in the scheme of things, as you know, as big as Russia is, on the global economic stage, it's really a minor player, certainly compared to China. But I'm looking at China. And I know they did not vote for this resolution condemning the Ukrainian attack. That was expected. But they must be thinking closely and carefully.

They have a lot on the line if, for example, they were to do something venturesome, because a global boycott against them would indeed hurt.

So I wonder how this plays out.

NARDELLI: Well, I think a couple of points, Neil, on that topic.

In the last administration, I talked to a lot of CEOs, a lot of big businesses, middle market, small businesses. There was a definite move towards what we will call onshoring, because of the corporate tax rate, because of the incentive, because the made-in-USA sentiment that was growing.

I think what's going to happen now, with the onset of potentially higher corporate tax, some of the dislocation that's taking place in our country today, certainly fuel costs that are just over the roof on this thing, I don't think you're going to see onshoring, Neil. I think you're going to see a lot of re-shoring.

In other words, they're going to be looking at Indonesia. They're going to be looking at other Asian countries to get out of China, and re-shore, as opposed to onshore, if I could use that terminology with you.

So I think there's a definite move, because they see what happened in Hong Kong. Now you got all this speculation about Taiwan. I think my fellow colleagues are looking at, how do you protect the supply chain?

One of the biggest issues we're facing in this country now -- and God knows we have got many -- with supply chain is inextricably linked, it's tied to inflation.

Neil, I spent all day Sunday on the phone trying to expedite parts, electronic parts, so that we could keep our factory open, so that we can meet commitments to our customers. And so this supply chain thing that doesn't get the publicity that it needs, just like energy independence now is picking up a lot of steam -- you know I have been a big, big advocate for years of energy independence, and we were there. We were there.

We surrendered. We shot ourselves in the foot. And my big hope for last night's State of the Union was that the president would stand up and say, I made a mistake. Start drilling. Let's get all the fracking back on government land. Let's open this thing up, and let's take care of ourselves, rather than buying oil from Russia.

It's just unconscionable to me that we...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Yes, he did not. He did not say that, did he, Bob?

NARDELLI: I'm sorry?

CAVUTO: All right, Bob, you raise a good point, and one that I plan to raise with my next guest.

Bob Nardelli, thank you so much.

John Thune, a big Republican leading Senate member, had the same reaction to Bob. Why not, Mr. President? This was the time to pivot, and you didn't.

John Thune is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: Tensions with Moscow remain very high.

That is an understatement, and oil prices going even higher, rocketing again today, even in the face of the administration's commitment expressed by the president last night that he's releasing a lot of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, about 30 million barrels we account for in this country.

Other members of the International Energy Agency, often referred to as the IEA, offering up another 30 million barrels. It did little, even with that excess supply expected to come to the markets, to change the price scenario. Right now, that figure you have for oil is about the highest it's been in more than a decade.

Enter John Thune, Senator John Thune, the Senate minority whip, kind enough to join us now.

Senator, good to see you.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Nice to see you, Neil. And welcome back, by the way.

CAVUTO: Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

What do you make of the president? He didn't pivot, as some of you and your colleagues had hoped, as my last guest, the former Home Depot chairman, Bob Nardelli, had hoped, to open up domestic oil production, but instead tap the Petroleum Reserve. He says that's enough.

What do you say?

THUNE: No, I -- there's no question about it, Neil.

As you know, pricing has a lot to do with expectations about the future, not just what's done in the immediate time frame. And that was a Band-Aid. I mean, releasing barrels of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is something that's sort of a little bit of a relief valve.

But this is a long-term structural supply-and-demand issue that only gets fixed by America becoming once again energy-independent. And your previous guest talked about this, but there is no question that we have the resources in this country, if we're willing to develop them, to fill the gap and, if Russia energy is taken offline, to help support our European allies, and to provide America with what we need to function.

But they have got to be willing to make a decision to do that. And I was hopeful, like a lot of our members were last night, that the president would come to that conclusion, make that decision, based upon the really extraordinary circumstances that we're in right now.

But they just can't get there. But I -- they're going to have to. There's just no two ways about it.

CAVUTO: Do you -- and you have been very critical of the way the president's been handling this, the inflation problem altogether. Is there anything he said last night, Senator, that alleviated your concerns?

Now, he's mentioned in the past that, you give Build Back Better a chance, it's going to address this, little else. What did you think?

THUNE: Well, I mean, he did.

His prescription for inflation is spend more money. And you know, everybody knows the textbook definition of inflation is too many dollars chasing too few of goods. And that was the problem with the Rescue Plan they passed last year, $2 trillion passed on a party-line basis. It fueled these inflationary pressures.

And so now we have got this thing that's kind of out of control. Year over year, if you look at inflation in January of this year, 7.5 percent, last year, 1.4 percent, this is becoming a chronic problem. And what he wants to do is spend more money.

I mean, that is the absolute opposite of what you would do in this situation. So, yes, there wasn't much that we heard. And, again, he didn't address the energy issue, which is a big part of inflation, if you look at the price of oil now well over $100 a barrel. Gasoline is up 40 percent over last year. Those all factor into inflation.

That's going to continue to be a problem and only gets addressed if you are willing to deal with the supply side of the equation. And they're not doing that. I mean, they have got -- they have taken off limits ANWR. They have taken off limits the Gulf. They have taken off-limits federal lands. They have shut down pipelines.

This is an administration that has a hostility toward liquid fuels. And I would add biofuels to that list of things too that, if they're really serious, they could do something about. But it's going to require them to chart a different path than what they have charted so far. And the path they're on right now has been dictated by the climate czars in their party, sort of the extreme left, who seem to misunderstand that electric vehicles is not a solution to the challenges that we face here and now, particularly with Ukraine and Russia.

CAVUTO: Senator, you're probably aware of that Britain wants to lead an effort to begin war crime trials into Russia, and specifically Vladimir Putin.

I caught an interview of yours on PBS in which you said that: "Vladimir Putin is clearly a menace to the world. It's important that the world storm him. And this is the place to do it. I'm glad that everybody is stepping up to the task," and talking about all the efforts the global community is taking the sanctions, et cetera.

Do you believe concurrently with those sanctions and with those efforts looking at war crimes on his part, on the henchmen who would be behind this concurrently, at the same time?

THUNE: Yes, I don't think there's any question. If this doesn't fit the definition of war crimes, I don't know what does, I mean, invasion -- invading a sovereign country, killing innocent women and children.

And the henchmen around him, the cronies around him, I think all ought to be labeled as such. And that would deprive them of access to almost anywhere in the civilized world. I think these are -- these are heinous crimes that are being committed. And this is a thug who has no consideration for the harm or the damage he's doing, not only to people in Ukraine, but people in his own country, who are suffering the consequences of some of these decisions.

So I think that the international community has to step up in every way possible, on every front possible, and define this for what it is, Neil. And I'm glad to see that's happening. There are countries engaging that we wouldn't have expected. Switzerland's off the sidelines, amazingly.

And I -- and you have seen a united front with NATO, unlike anything I have seen in my lifetime. And I'm encouraged by that. But it's partly because, mainly because of the inspiration I think our country and other countries are getting from the Ukrainian people, the Ukrainian leadership, the way that they are standing up and defending their country and defending their freedoms and their sovereignty.

That's inspiring the world. And I hope it continues.

CAVUTO: It is. You're right.

And, Senator, not only have you not seen it in your lifetime. I haven't seen in my lifetime. And I'm older than you, Senator.

(LAUGHTER)

THUNE: Not by much.

CAVUTO: So, thank you very much.

Yeah, please, please.

Senator, thank you very, very much. Good seeing you again.

THUNE: You too. Thanks, Neil.

CAVUTO: Senator John Thune on all of that, the Senate minority whip.

We're going to give you the latest on the refugee, you can call it a crisis right now, up to 800,000 refugees right now from Ukraine who are seeking safer havens. Who are taking them in? You're probably not surprised, and that this country has vowed to keep taking them in as long as it takes, and no matter how many it takes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, let's go to Lviv, Ukraine.

That's where you will find our intrepid Lucas Tomlinson with the latest, what's happening in that neck of the woods -- Lucas.

LUCAS TOMLINSON, FOX NEWS PENTAGON PRODUCER: Neil, the U.N. says that about 875,000 people have evacuated this country, and that number could stretch north to a million by tomorrow.

Now, Ukraine's president spoke earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): They have orders to erase our history, our country and all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TOMLINSON: For the first time since the war began last Thursday, the Russian Defense Ministry releasing casualty figures, 498 Russian soldiers killed, 1,500 wounded.

U.S. intelligence thinks that number of Russians killed in action could be four times higher in reality. British intelligence says five Ukrainian cities are now surrounded. Russian forces claimed today to capture a strategic port city in the Black Sea north of Crimea. U.S. officials disputed the claim and say the city remains contested.

Russian and Ukrainian forces are also battling for Kharkiv, the country's second largest city in the northeast, a target for some of the 450 missiles Russian forces have fired into this country. Ukraine's top diplomat today urging the West to send even more weapons, and not just Javelins and Stingers, Neil. He wants bombs for his air force jets -- quote -- "now," a sign those jets don't have enough bombs to perhaps erase and to annihilate that Russian convoy.

Now, we're about two hours into a curfew here in Lviv. We heard air raid sirens a short time ago, sending people earlier scrambling, another night of uncertainty, and people are very afraid here, Neil.

CAVUTO: That's probably an understatement, my friend, including you. You're very calm through all of this.

But, Lucas Tomlinson, thank you very much in Lviv, Ukraine.

Our people are just amazing in this coverage and what they are doing to make sure you know exactly what's going on there and what the Ukrainians are thinking there.

It's a good issue to pick up with Ambassador William Taylor. You remember him, the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, kind enough to be with me now.

Ambassador, I know like sound redundant when I say just the sheer bravery and tenacity of the Ukrainian people. But then I get some sobering news out of General Jack Keane, who says that there's a lot more hell to come and that, if we're to look at this Russian advance, and its pinpointed nature, it might be late, but it didn't disappear. What do you think of that?

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Neil, of course, you're right and General Keane is right.

The Russians still come. They're bogged down in a couple places, but they're fighting the -- as you say, the valiant Ukrainians. I mean, this is David and Goliath. And David is fighting fiercely. But Goliath has a lot of troops and they have got a lot of equipment. And the odds are really against David in this battle.

But it's just amazing. Here we are, seven days in, Neil, and these guys are still fighting.

CAVUTO: Yes.

TAYLOR: I'm sure the Russians thought that they would be in Kyiv by now. And they're not.

CAVUTO: You know, one thing that interests me, Ambassador -- and you know diplospeak and all -- I know about this resolution at the U.N. to condemn this Russian war in Ukraine. Five countries didn't do that. They can't veto it, but they can just not vote for it.

And China was among them. And I think China's going to be an interesting one to watch, because it walks a very tricky line, right? I mean, you don't want to overtly condemn Russia, but you don't want to do anything that probably has them thinking, if this were done to us, it would destroy us, these sanctions and everything else.

What do you think of how China is addressing this?

TAYLOR: Neil, I think you're right that the Chinese are walking a very fine line. They abstained in this vote. It's interesting. They actually abstained in the Security Council vote yesterday as well.

So they have not backed their compadre. They haven't backed it. There's not an alliance. It's a forced marriage, in some sense, a marriage of convenience. And they have not backed their partner in this. And a lot of it is what you say. They -- the Chinese have a lot of investments in Ukraine.

And they don't want to jeopardize those. They're not eager to see Russia violate the sovereignty of any country, in particular Ukraine in this case, but the Chinese are having a difficult time.

Neil, I will remember that in the last -- last time that the Russians invaded Ukraine in 2014, when they first did it, there was a Security Council resolution and the Chinese abstained then too. They have been hesitant to back this aggression by the Russians.

CAVUTO: Of course, if this were to happen to China, and let's say it invaded Taiwan, God forbid, but it might be noticing this and, real quickly, Ambassador, saying, no, we don't want to do that right now.

TAYLOR: I'm sure you're right.

President Xi is watching how tough the alliance is, the international alliance, not just NATO. But it's the Japanese, the Australians and North - - North -- South Koreans as well. I'm sure President Xi is watching this very carefully, and to see this alliance push back on Russia.

CAVUTO: Yes, you're probably right, Ambassador.

Always great. I learn a great deal from you. Ambassador, thank you very much.

All right, so where we stand right now is a little bit of confusion in what happens next, but something will. We're always on it.

Here comes "The Five."

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