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Border Patrol Union President slams White House's handling of the border crisis

Brandon Judd provides insight on the COVID-19 spike at the southern border on 'Your World'

This is a rush transcript from "Your World with Neil Cavuto," August 2, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

CHARLES PAYNE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: A key briefing from the White House COVID response team getting under way, this amid a flurry of new rules, new concerns, and a new poll showing Americans are losing faith this crisis isn't going away anytime soon.

Peter Doocy is following it for us. And he will have the latest in just a moment.

But, first, a COVID crisis at the Southern border, the scene from Mission, Texas, showing a new influx of migrants, all as officials sound the alarm over a border crisis is now becoming a possible health crisis.

Hello, everyone. I'm Charles Payne, in for Neil Cavuto, and this is "Your World."

And it's a world of hurt on the front lines of the battle to keep our borders secure. I talked with two key officials on "Cavuto Live" and their teams are hurting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CABRERA, VICE PRESIDENT, BORDER PATROL UNION: We're concerned about catching it ourselves. We're concerned about our families and our co- workers. And it just seems that everybody's just turning a blind eye to it, when we have a real situation down here.

SGT. MANUEL CASAS, LA JOYA, TEXAS, POLICE DEPARTMENT: It's astronomical the number of people. And some of them are coughing. They're obviously sick. And there's no doubt. I mean, we protect ourselves. We wear our face covering. We wear our gloves. We do our best so that we can continue helping others.

If we get sick, then we're out of the game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAYNE: So, with the surge intensifying, what is the Biden administration saying?

To FOX's Griff Jenkins at the White House at the very latest -- Griff.

GRIFF JENKINS, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Charles, good afternoon.

Just moments ago in the press briefing that is still under way right now, our own Peter Doocy pressing White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki about the COVID part of the border crisis. Here's what happened. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: (OFF-MIKE) at the border. Is the president concerned that migrants who are coming in, in great numbers are not being tested for COVID at their first point of contact with Border Patrol?

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, let me give you a little bit of an understanding of what actually happens when people come across the border.

First, as to Katie's (ph) earlier question, there's been no change in Title 42. So, families and single adults are expelled, if possible, when apprehended at the Southern border. That's step one.

Those who can't be expelled are often placed -- and this, I think, goes to your question -- in alternatives to detention programs while their cases are being reviewed. CBP provides migrants with PPE from the moment they are taken into custody. And migrants are required to keep masks on at all times, including when they are transferred or in the process of being released.

Our other protocol is if anyone exhibits signs of illness in CBP custody, they're referred to local health systems for appropriate testing, diagnosis, isolation, and treatment. That is our process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JENKINS: Meanwhile, Charles, let us show you this exclusive FOX drone footage that the administration doesn't want you to see showing the largest group of migrants we have ever seen, estimated at 1,000 or more, under the Anzalduas Bridge in Mission, Texas.

And they don't want to broadcast the numbers that we have exclusively gotten in the last 24 hours in that very area, the Rio Grande Valley sector. They have encountered 3, 002 migrants. That's an increase of 655 percent compared to last year.

And the weekend total, well, that was more than 8,000. You see here the RGV chief, Brian Hastings, tweeting over the weekend this: "The days of line watch operations are few and far between. Last week's apprehension stands at more than 21,000, as agents continue to do their best."

Charles, that's a revealing tweet because it is a bit of an admission that agents now because of the number of migrants they are having to process and transport they're not able to perform their fundamental duty, which is being on that line and protecting our border -- Charles.

PAYNE: Griff, thank you very much.

Let's get right to Border Patrol Union president Brandon Judd.

Brandon, it's certainly not getting any better from where you stand. In fact, it sounds like, according to this, in some parts of this border, you folks can't even do your primary job anymore.

BRANDON JUDD, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: No, we can't.

The other night, I was patrolling the border. And we just didn't have enough people out there to properly effectuate the arrests that we needed to make.

But let me let me go back and I want to fact-check Jen Psaki, first off. She says that we can't deport -- send people back under Title 42. That's not true. That is a choice that this administration is making. It has nothing to do with they can't do something.

And what she doesn't do is, she's telling you -- she's only giving you part truths. She's not telling you the number of people that are being released into the communities under the catch and release program. That is an astronomical number, nearly 40 percent.

And when you look at this month, the month of July, we're going to exceed 200,000 apprehensions in the month of July; 40 percent of those people were released into the United States to spread throughout our communities, a lot of whom very well could have COVID. But we don't know because we don't test them. That is a huge problem.

You got the problem of the COVID-19 spread. You have also got the problem of we just don't have -- we can't put enough of our agents on the line to actually protect the border. This is a huge crisis. And it keeps getting worse day by day.

PAYNE: Right.

And I want to remind the audience that is a live shot folks, Mission, Texas. That is a whole lot of people, the Border Patrol certainly overwhelmed, we know, coming into this.

Brandon, you just mentioned the numbers, over 200,000 in July. I think, for the fiscal year, you have already well past one million. What about the unaccompanied children? I read a statistic; 27 percent of unaccompanied children have tested positive for COVID? Could the number be that high?

JUDD: It is. That's absolutely true.

It's well over 20 percent that are testing positive for COVID. And, again, that is what is coming across our border. And that's what the American public needs to know. But the frustration is, is, why isn't this administration just being perfectly honest with the American public?

And the answer has to be because they don't want the public to know what -- where their faults are, how they're failing at the border, and they are failing very bad.

PAYNE: Yes, sticking the head in the sand strategy, though, certainly hasn't worked.

When Jen Psaki was saying, hey, there, first, at the point of contact, they're tested, they have masks on, if they show symptoms, I mean, all of that stuff sounds really, really good in a perfect world. But we know this is an imperfect world when it comes to COVID-19. Many folks have it, don't know they have it. They certainly don't always exhibit symptoms.

Not sure everyone's coming up to the Southern border wearing masks. I have seen many visuals were overwhelmingly people aren't. So this world that she described doesn't even exist down there, Brandon.

JUDD: No, it doesn't.

And, again, that's what's so frustrating to Border Patrol agents. All we want is an honest conversation out there for the American public. We want them to be able to form their opinions based upon facts, based upon the truth. And this White House isn't giving them that. So, again, they're trying to misdirect. They're trying to mislead the public, saying, hey, there's nothing to see here, when, in reality, we're facing the worst crisis we have ever seen in my 24-year career.

It's getting worse. The numbers continue to go up and there is nothing in place. They're doing nothing about this. They continue to try to misdirect and mislead the American public.

PAYNE: By the way, I read also 87 agents in just two Texas sectors have come down with COVID-19. How bad has it gotten for your people?

JUDD: That's the first thing that we face. Everybody that we take into custody, we have to assume might have COVID.

And we have agents that are coming down. We have had agents that have already died due to COVID exposure. And, yes, we have over 80 of our agents. Now, that's another agent and that's another 80 people that we have to take out of the field that can't be patrolling the border simply because we're being overwhelmed and the cartels are being allowed to make billions of dollars in transporting these illegal aliens that have COVID and other diseases that are coming into the United States.

PAYNE: Right.

Brandon, we do this story, and it just still blows my mind how it just feels like you're out there by yourself trying to do a job that just now is just overwhelming.

We appreciate you coming on. And we will continue to check in on you. Thank you so much.

JUDD: Thank you, Charles.

PAYNE: Now, over the weekend, folks, three buses of migrants were dropped off in Laredo, Texas, this after the Department of Homeland Security said it would stop sending migrants there due to health and COVID concerns.

Well, my next guest is very concerned.

Pete Saenz is the Democratic mayor of Laredo. He joins us now.

By the way, we did call DHS on this story. We have yet to hear back.

Mayor, your town sued the Biden administration. In fact, you sued DHS, Mayorkas, CBP, primarily over the fear that COVID was going to be an issue. And now, of course, it is an issue. Where does everything stand right now?

PETE SAENZ (D), MAYOR OF LAREDO, TEXAS: Well, the lawyers were visiting, trying to negotiate this. We had agreed on a 10-day period. That 10-day period ended on Friday.

Then, Saturday, I get a call from the Border Patrol chief, saying that they're starting again the busing. Our situation is, is that we get the overflow from the RGV, which is the Rio Grande Valley area, which is about 150 miles downriver southeast of Laredo.

They're so overwhelmed that they have been sending buses of migrants to our people. And then these migrants are not tested. There's a high probability that they have COVID. Some in the last group or two that we have received, before the 10-day period, they were coming at close to 40 percent positive on COVID.

And, of course, that forced us to quarantine the NGO here locally. And, of course, the issue, the main issue that we're facing now is that we have extremely limited bed capacity in our hospitals. And it's really pitting our residents with the migrants.

And that's very insensitive, even cruel to even create this environment where sick people are actually competing now for beds. The last five or six weeks, we only had less than five beds available in our city. Two to three days out of last week, we only had one available ICU bed in our city.

And that's very, very concerning. And this is why we're basically asking the federal government. You have a choice. You can take them to another city or place where they can really treat these migrants, if need be.

PAYNE: Yes.

SAENZ: We don't have that space.

PAYNE: Is your population there around a quarter-of-a-million in your town?

SAENZ: Yes, a little over that, close to, yes, I would say 280,000, 300,000.

PAYNE: One ICU bed in a town that size? One bed left, that was it?

SAENZ: That was it last week for about two or three days.

PAYNE: Well, you filed the lawsuit.

Obviously, the federal government understands how much -- this is before the flux even got to this degree a few weeks ago. You must have seen it coming. I guess you thought you were negotiating in good faith. That breaks down and here comes the buses.

Where are you putting all of these people? I did see where you had the holding institute shelter. That, from what I saw it, seemed extraordinarily small to handle the influx that you're having to deal with right now.

SAENZ: Yes, even the holding institute, NGO, I mean, it's ill-equipped. There's really no filtration, ventilation system.

But we're doing -- they're making do. And thank goodness that that's their mission to take people in.

But going back to the lawsuit, tonight, city council is meeting and city council will make a decision as to what -- how best to proceed with the lawsuit. We're asking for injunctive relief. In other words, put a halt to these buses.

So, by tomorrow morning, we should have a response from our city, a formal response. And then we will go before a federal judge and see what the arrangement will be. If there's any, I doubt it. But maybe the judge needs to make a decision here, hopefully halting these buses until we get -- build capacity in our hospitals.

PAYNE: Mayor, best of luck to you. Thank you so much for taking the time. We appreciate it.

SAENZ: Thank you so much to you all.

PAYNE: So, the president is saying, in all probability, there will be more restrictions. But what did he mean by that?

Peter Doocy will give us the latest, as the White House COVID team briefing is under way.

And the COVID cases spiking, new poll numbers showing something else, though, plunging. Lee Carter on why that's not good news for the president or his party.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: As massive protests against COVID restrictions ramp up over there, are new restrictions coming here?

The White House COVID response team set to hold a press conference in any moment.

FOX News White House correspondent Peter Doocy has the latest -- Peter.

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Charles, when that briefing begins, we expect to hear publicly what the president spoke about privately today.

We just saw this posting on his Twitter account this morning: "I met with members of my COVID-19 response team. As we continue to fight the Delta variant surging across the country, we know the best way to fight the Delta variant is to get vaccinated. Find a vaccine near you at vaccines.gov."

That tweet came accompanied with a photo of the president and some other advisers listening intently to Dr. Anthony Fauci, who said this weekend what the White House has been trying to say, that they don't think they are going to need to go back to the lockdowns like we had last year.

But they are warning it is a very grave situation with the Delta variant, particularly for unvaccinated people. As for what we can expect to hear, the president says we should in all likelihood expect there to be more restrictions.

We know that the Department of Education's guidance that went out today detailed a little bit more about the kind of social distancing and mask- wearing they want in K-12 schools. But we do not have further specifics, as pretty much everybody on campus inside and a lot of outside now, Charles, are wearing masks again, regardless of vaccination status.

We will have more for you as we get it -- Charles.

PAYNE: Peter, thank you very much.

I want to get right to what my next guest thinks of all of this, NYU Langone Associate Professor Dr. Roshini Raj.

Doctor, obviously, it's a complicated situation, in the sense that, from what I read over the weekend, it feels like the White House now somewhat upset with the CDC for fanning the flames, for maybe laying it on too thick.

I know it's delicate. Where do you see this going? And how should the communication for this be going along?

DR. ROSHINI RAJ, NYU LANGONE HEALTH: Well, Charles, just as you said, it's very complicated because this is an evolving situation.

And I think it's sort of easy to blame the CDC, but when new information comes to light, they do feel a responsibility to share it. And that's kind of where we're at. I mean, as you said, you read things over the weekend.

We learned things really just last week that we didn't know before about the Delta variant, namely, that it is very contagious, even in vaccinated people, that they have a very high number of virus particles in their nose, so they can easily transmit it, probably as easily as if they were never vaccinated.

And this is pretty startling news. And it has real implications as to how we are interacting, even if we're vaccinated. And it certainly has implications for that -- those large numbers of our population that have not been vaccinated.

So, this is all going to affect policy, the fact that, number one, even though you're vaccinated, you can have what they're calling now a breakthrough infection. It's much less likely than if you were never vaccinated, but it's possible.

But what perhaps is even more worrisome is that you can transmit it to others. So, just like when we're talking about schools and K-12, we know that the vaccine has not been approved for younger children under 12 yet, so they still remain vulnerable to getting infected, which is why they're now saying everybody in school should be wearing a mask.

It is very frustrating for all of us. We thought this thing would be over by now. Every week, we're getting new information. But as the science is illuminating more, and the variants are new, so we are going to get new information. As we learn, we have to kind of follow that advice and see where we're guided.

PAYNE: Right.

We have -- everyone now, of course, every time this flares up, we all sort of put on our hats, right, and we try to understand that the charts and the trends. And you can see over in India, over in the U.K., where the Delta variant originated, they had this spike a few weeks before we did, maybe three or four weeks

Now, it looks like good news is that they're starting to come down rather rapidly in terms of number of cases. Is there something specific that was done over there that you think we should be doing here?

RAJ: That's a great question.

And I don't think we have the answer to that, why things are going so well over there. It's wonderful news, particularly in India, where, of course, resources were a huge issue. But, as you said, it is hopeful, in the sense that even though they had wide, widespread Delta variant, and really the vast majority of their cases were the Delta, they actually -- now the numbers are decreasing dramatically, same thing in England as well.

So, why that is, it's not entirely clear to me. And are things going to be different in different countries with different populations, different percentages of elderly people, different percentages of people with medical issues, it's really hard to say at this point.

PAYNE: Dr. Raj, obviously, we're talking messaging. And next month is obviously very critical, in the sense that many had hoped schools would be open.

I don't know -- for some parents, the mask issue is a very important issue as well. And if we push that back -- we have already seen a number of private companies push back their reopenings to October and later in the year.

Is it too soon to know how much schools might possibly be interrupted or openings delayed?

RAJ: Well, I think everyone is pretty much on the same page when it comes to schools, in that they really do need to open on time. Yes, there is a risk of COVID. But the risk of missing that educational experience and that social experience for children, I think we all feel at this point a year has been too much, and they have lost too much.

And it is worth that risk of the COVID to get them back in school. But in terms of what precautions they will be taking in the school, in terms of how they're spaced, whether they're wearing masks full-time, whether that's indoors and outdoors, those are still questions that remain to be answered.

PAYNE: All right.

RAJ: But I think, at this point -- I'm a parent myself, and feel very strong that schools need to open on time.

PAYNE: Doctor, it looks like all of this attention, whether it's finger- pointing, good news, bad news, whatever it is, all of this increase in tension has moved the needle, and we are seeing an increase in the last couple days on vaccinations.

What is the number? Initially, the Biden administration had a number around 70 percent as something as sort of a safe level. Would that be sort of a de facto herd immunity? And are you confident we can still reach it?

RAJ: Well, am I confident? I'm not sure, given the real resistance that we're still seeing among a lot of people in this country.

I think 70 percent is actually a little bit too low. And I think we need to get even higher than that. But there are still a lot of people that aren't getting vaccinated for a variety of reasons, which is really -- the only way we are going to handle this -- and as people continue to remain unvaccinated, that's how these variants emerge.

We have Delta, but we're certainly going to have more, because, if there's more virus circulating, it has a better chance of mutating.

PAYNE: Right.

RAJ: So that's our only hope.

And I sincerely do wish that we do get to that higher level, over 70 percent.

(CROSSTALK)

PAYNE: So do I.

President Biden, in fact, just tweeting moments ago about this, saying: "Folks, we have officially reached our goal of 70 percent of adults receiving at least one dose of the vaccine. It's incredible progress, but we still have further to go. If you haven't already get vaccinated, let's defeat this virus once and for all."

Again, the tone sounds better.

Real quick, before I let you go, the second dose, is it just laziness? Is it just a false sense of confidence? How -- what's the best way to go about getting folks to get that second dose? Because I'm scheduled for mine in a couple of weeks. And I -- you know, I plan on making it, but I just -- I don't think about it every day.

RAJ: Yes, well, I'm glad you asked that.

It's extremely important to get that second dose. You're just not as protected nearly as much with only one dose.

PAYNE: Right.

RAJ: And now we're talking about even maybe needing a third dose at some point. So, 100 percent, the second dose is very, very necessary.

PAYNE: OK.

RAJ: Potentially down the road, maybe a third. One is not enough. Go for the second.

PAYNE: I got you. OK. Doctor's orders. I got you.

Dr. Raj, thank you so much.

RAJ: Thank you.

PAYNE: Well, the COVID fears are spiking, and, of course, a new number of Americans, the optimism, folks, and when you see just how much this thing has plunged, Lee Carter on whether the president and his party should be worrying.

But, first, a 2, 700-page, trillion-dollar-plus infrastructure bill now making its way through the halls of Congress. If it's a green light for Democrats and massive spending, should this have a chance of passing?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: The White House COVID briefing under way.

The president has left the door open for some more restrictions. What might those be? Well, Peter Doocy is monitoring this and will be back with us with those latest headlines.

And we're back in just 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: Call it a $1 trillion page-turner, the 2, 700 page bipartisan infrastructure bill making the rounds on Capitol Hill. But could it lead to another round of even more spending?

To FOX Business' Hillary Vaughn on the Hill with the very latest -- Hillary.

HILLARY VAUGHN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Charles.

Well, there could be one less Republican vote in the Senate for this bipartisan infrastructure bill, not because they don't support it or they're losing support, but because Senator Lindsey Graham said this afternoon he has test tested positive for COVID-19, even though he got the vaccine, and now he has to quarantine, putting the fate of the bipartisan infrastructure package on shaky ground with one less Republican lawmaker to support it.

Graham saying this in a statement -- quote -- "I started having flu-like symptoms Saturday night and went to the doctor this morning. I feel like I have a sinus infection and at present time I have mild symptoms. I will be quarantining for 10 days."

That is key, because Leader Chuck Schumer has said he wants to get a vote on the deal by Thursday this week, if possible. If he plows ahead, Graham will still be in quarantine and will not be able to show up to vote.

But there could be more trouble ahead for the bill, a source telling FOX News. Graham was with Senator Joe Manchin and other lawmakers on Manchin's house boat over the weekend. Manchin's office says he is following CDC protocol and he has been vaccinated.

But he is another critical Democratic vote for this package too. If the deal this week does have the votes to get through the Senate, though, its fate in the hands of the House is uncertain. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez saying on Sunday they need to see the $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill cross the finish line before she and others will vote for any hard infrastructure deal.

She also said that Democrats do have the votes to oppose this bipartisan infrastructure deal if the Senate cannot get reconciliation through. And, Charles, right now, Republicans and Democrats are working out how many amendments to accept to add on and consider for this bill.

Senate leader Chuck Schumer wants to rush the clock and get this deal done. But Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and other Republicans want to bide their time. He wants to give his members a chance to change and amend the bill if they want -- Charles.

PAYNE: Hillary, thank you very much.

Well, D.C. keeps spending, and you keep paying. Gas prices are rising again, though. Over the weekend, they were up, this coming as later in the week, Clorox and Kraft Heinz, they're set to report on how price spikes are impacting their bottom line and if, well, they need to pass those costs on to you.

My next guest says all this spending is certainly not helping.

CPA Dan Geltrude true joins me now.

Dan, we have seen it already with a lot of these other consumer staple companies that have reported their earnings. They have all said, we're raising our prices.

They have no choice but they raise their prices. And, of course, consumers will have no choice but to pay them, won't they?

DANIEL GELTRUDE, GELTRUDE & COMPANY: That's exactly true, Charles, because each of these corporations need to protect their bottom line, right, because they have to protect their shareholders.

So they are not going to absorb the price increases that are coming to them as far as the products that they need without passing it on to ultimately the consumers. So, all signs point to, Charles, that inflation is here to stay for a while and will continue to rise.

PAYNE: Yes.

And, of course, everywhere you look, consumers say they are bracing for runaway inflation, at least for over the next year. Let's talk about how this deal may be held up and your thoughts on the $3.5 trillion spending bill being rammed through as a condition of this infrastructure bill going through?

GELTRUDE: Well, that's absolutely crazy, Charles.

I think that I could make an argument that the $1 trillion is an inflated number. Of course, we do need infrastructure. We have things that are crumbling, bridges and everything else, all over the country. So, certainly, we need to do some spending.

To have that be an excuse to go all the way up to an additional $3.5 trillion is insanity. Now, let me tell you why nobody's really getting too excited about it in Washington, D.C., because there's never been any consequences to all this spending.

In the last decade, we have added close to $20 trillion of more debt. And what's happened? Who's paid that price? No one. Therefore, the spending continues literally at this crazy level. I just don't see any end in sight to it.

PAYNE: Well, but you could also argue, real quick, Dan, that it's a ticking time bomb once.

Once it does implode, how do you stop it?

GELTRUDE: Yes.

Well, you know what, Charles? People have asked me to say, well, when is the national debt going to be a problem? And here's the answer, when it is a problem. And nobody actually knows when this is going to blow up. I would have thought years ago that hitting $30 trillion, there's going to be a big problem.

Now what's the number? Fifty trillion? A hundred trillion?

PAYNE: Right.

GELTRUDE: I don't think anybody knows, Charles.

PAYNE: Yes, but I think we're going to find out.

Dan, thank you very much.

And, by the way, folks, just coming across, U.S. Treasury suspends government retirement health fund payments, as the debt limit resets. The debt ceiling issue is going to be the very next crisis as we topple and deal with all these other big spending issues.

Meanwhile, Democrats protesting to extend the moratorium on evictions. And now the White House is taking action. Is all of this setting up to maybe extend those jobless benefits? And if that happens, what would it mean for this amazing labor shortage?

Plus, another major city struggling to hire more police, and, meanwhile, violent crime continues to break out everywhere. What will it take to reel this crisis in?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: The White House says President Joe Biden is taking a number of steps to help renters facing eviction, now that that moratorium has expired.

Could this be setting up, though, for the next big fight when those extended jobless benefits expire on September 6? Many employers pinning the labor shortage on those benefits.

Let's ask Republican strategist Nick Adams and Democratic strategist Marjorie Clifton.

Nick, I read all of these employer surveys, and I got to tell you, the stories are amazing. They're crying. They're pleading. And this is one of the main reasons they say they can't find workers.

NICK ADAMS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Charles, there are over nine million open jobs in America right now.

The very last thing we need are American staying at home collecting benefits. Companies have been bending over backwards, as you know, to try to hire employees, signing bonuses, higher wages, other benefits, and they just can't do it because of this left-wing, socialist, endless, continuing jobless benefits.

It's very sad. How on earth can we go back to normal, move past the pandemic if the government won't? This is what happens when your policy platform is being influenced by those on Twitter demanding action between their therapy sessions and Pilates.

PAYNE: Right.

Marjorie, there, of course, was a time last year when we needed this, because -- even you got a kick out of that. Because let's face it, the government shut down our economy. They shut it down. And so it was on them. But we're open now.

We have had this V-shape. President Biden brags a lot about how well the economy is doing. And Nick mentioned over nine million job openings. With that, I think it would be political suicide for the Democrats to do this, but I have been hearing the whispers as well. What about you?

MARJORIE CLIFTON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think we're oversimplifying what's happening. I don't think a lot of people collecting insurance or collecting benefits are doing Pilates right now.

I think a lot of them are taking care of the elderly, taking care of children who cannot be vaccinated right now. I know that's true in my household at this point. So I think we are not finished with the pandemic. I think that there are a lot of concerns that we have to look at.

Now, do we extend benefits? One of the challenges that we have right now is that states are administering a lot of the benefits, like the home extension for covering renter's insurance. Currently, in the United States, out of 41 states, 26 of them have only distributed less than 10 percent of that aid.

So we are actually having an infrastructure breakdown, how the states are actually getting money in the hands of the people that need it. And that is contributing to the slowdown.

(CROSSTALK)

PAYNE: So, does that make you confident then, Marjorie, to do even more of these spending plans, if they're sitting on billions and billions of dollars?

We're going to now do an infrastructure plan. They will sit on that. Then we will do another plan. They will sit on that. Why aren't they distributing this money?

CLIFTON: No, I agree with you.

And I think part of the bipartisan breakdown that we're having in this country where we're not having states speak to each other, where we're not having relationships with the federal government, is leading to a breakdown everywhere.

And I think both parties are responsible. We are pointing our energy in the wrong directions. We need to make sure that we have got functional software and systems to get aid in the hands of the people who need it. And that is right now in the hands of the states.

PAYNE: OK, I got less than a minute to go.

Nick, I think these states know. They sit on this cash, and then they wait for another round of -- I mean, so much money is coming. It's just not people who are -- who don't have to work anymore. But a state like California, they were rewarded for some of the ham-fisted tactics that they used with billions of dollars.

And I think this also disincentivized effective governing. I will give you the last word.

ADAMS: Yes, of course, it does, Charles. And that's exactly right.

That's what these states are relying on. Look, nobody is against a safety net. What we're against is a hammock. We don't want that. America can't afford that. That's what's at stake. It's not a complicated thing, contrary to what Marjorie says. It's very simple.

We need to make sure that we have incentives for people to work. The Democrats are removing and eliminating those.

PAYNE: We got to leave it there. I wish we had more time.

Thank you both very much. Appreciate it.

So, is more police the answer to these crime spikes? And what happens if cities can't find the police there to hire?

And that COVID briefing under way, we're going to have the very latest for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: Major U.S. cities on edge with violent crime still on the rise, this as Portland, Oregon, reportedly can't find police for its gun violence unit, this to the fight the city's rising murder rate.

So, where's all of this heading?

Retired Las Vegas Police Lieutenant Sandy -- Randy Sutton joins us now.

Lieutenant, it's been a while.

It's absolutely remarkable, yet it was all predictable, what we're seeing in these major cities, including the one where the -- where the mayor talked about the summer love not long ago. And, of course, now, it's an unmitigated disaster. How do they fix it?

RANDY SUTTON, FORMER LAS VEGAS POLICE LIEUTENANT: There's only one way to fix it, Charles. And that's to actually let the police be the police.

But I don't foresee that happening. The -- this new gun unit that is trying to be formed in Portland, it's too little too late. They already disbanded the unit last year. And now what they're trying to do is, they're trying to reform it.

But given the dismal backing that the mayor has given the police department there, it's just not going to happen. Why would these officers put themselves in a position to face even more criticism for joining a unit that is now going to be run by civilians, with -- all based on race?

It's madness. It's not going to work. The body count is going to continue in Portland, until the people of Portland smarten up and get rid of the mayor and get rid of that city council. That's the only way it's going to get better.

PAYNE: Of course, it's not just Portland. We saw some pretty wild scenes down in Bourbon Street in New Orleans.

What do you make of it?

SUTTON: Well, here's here's what's happening all across America.

And criminals, they're really predators, OK? They sense weakness. They understand where they can -- where they can rule. And they are ruling the streets now all over America, because the police are being demonized, they're being dehumanized, they're being defunded.

They're less effective because of laws being put into effect that directly make it easier for prosecutors to prosecute the police and not the criminals. So, you have the perfect storm of massive criminality.

There's no accountability for the criminal. There's no -- there's no consequences for committing crime. And the only people getting prosecuted are the cops.

PAYNE: Yes.

And, of course, now they can't get anyone to take those jobs. And it's -- we have gone down. There's really a death spiral right now.

Lieutenant, thank you for joining us. Always appreciate it. Thank you very much.

SUTTON: Thanks for having me, Charles.

PAYNE: So, with the Delta variant spreading and COVID cases surging, new numbers are showing that the Biden administration should be very, very worried about all of this.

Lee Carter's on it. She's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: Another briefing by the White House COVID-19 response team just wrapping up.

FOX News' own Peter Doocy is back with another update from the White House -- Peter.

DOOCY: Yes, this briefing is happening via Zoom. It's with the public health officials who came out to suggest that vaccinated people started to -- needed to start wearing masks again, without explaining exactly what it is that they saw that made them think that.

So, now, as part of their explanation about why, the CDC director says this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: The Delta variant is highly contagious.

To put this in perspective, if you get sick with the Alpha variant, you could infect about two other unvaccinated people. If you get sick with the Delta variant, we estimate that you could infect about five other unvaccinated people, more than twice as many as the original strain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: And for that reason, the Biden administration officials on this call, including Jeffrey Zients, are applauding private companies like Walmart who are requiring employees heading back to work to get vaccinated within a certain amount of time.

That's something that some Democratic leaders have been suggesting. But these officials insists there are no plans to go back to a lockdown that would damage the economy. They are going to try to figure out how to live with this -- with this Delta variant while getting a number of people vaccinated.

But regardless of what things look like next month, when most of the country goes back to school, they want every man, woman and child K-12 who steps foot on a school's campus to be wearing a mask regardless of vaccination status -- Charles.

PAYNE: Peter, thank you very much.

So, with COVID cases rising, Americans' optimism over the pandemic, it's plunging. There's a new Gallup poll showing that just 40 percent say the coronavirus situation is getting better. That's down from 89 percent who were optimistic in June.

So, does this drop in sentiment spell trouble for the Biden administration?

Republican pollster Lee Carter's here to discuss.

Lee, I mean, I think the number also that caught my attention was getting a lot, little worse went from 45 percent to -- I mean to 45 percent from 3 percent. I can't even imagine -- you're in the industry. Have you ever seen a reversal in one month on any topic to this degree?

LEE CARTER, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: This is a really, really rapid shift in perception.

In fact, this is probably the biggest shift that we have seen since November of last year, when we had our peak, I would say, worst month in how people were feeling about it. And it hasn't been since January that we had people -- more people pessimistic about where we're going than optimistic.

So this is a really big shift in sentiment, and it represents a new phase that the Biden administration is going to have to manage. And it's the first time since -- since Joe Biden has taken office that people are as concerned as they are right now.

He's also got a dual challenge, because people are more concerned, but they don't know where to get information. When you look at who people trust to get information, only 52 percent of Americans trust the CDC; 37 percent trust the NIH; 37 percent trust the FDA. So we have got a real trust gap.

So you have got people who are more concerned and they don't know where to go and who to trust. And then you have got people talking over each other. People are talking about an increased spread. So you're looking at what that statement just was. And a lot of people are saying, OK, well, it's an increased spread, but am I at increased risk because I'm vaccinated?

PAYNE: Right.

CARTER: What should I be looking at here? So, it's really, really not good for the Biden administration, and they're going to have to get a handle on it.

PAYNE: So -- and just moments ago, President Biden put out a tweet, and I think this is telling.

He said: "Folks, we have officially reached our goal; 70,000 (sic) adults receiving at least one dose of the vaccine. It's incredible progress, but we still have further to go. If you haven't already, get vaccinated. Let's defeat this virus once and for all."

There was a tone, a real harsh, a real edge, I mean, finger-pointing some damning comments that he was making not just long ago, and, apparently, they must have realized that that was a mistake. And so it feels like now they're going back to perhaps a softer, gentler touch here.

CARTER: I think -- yes, I think they have realized it was a mistake.

And all the research that I have done about how to talk to people about the vaccine is, it's got to begin with empathy. There's lots of good reasons why people are confused and uncertain about whether or not the vaccine is right for them.

If we want to have a conversation with them, we have to go to them and say, we get your reasons, let's have a conversation about why.

PAYNE: Right.

CARTER: We can't be talking to people as if they're uneducated or ill- informed if they have made the decision simply to wait and see.

PAYNE: Yes. Well, we will wait and see.

By the way, I think I said 70,000. Seventy percent. So, that's a good number, but just one dose.

(LAUGHTER)

PAYNE: Lee, thank you so much. Always, always appreciate your expertise on this.

And, yes, this is really troubling news for the White House and probably for the country as well.

That will do it for me.

Neil, he will be back tomorrow, folks.

In the meantime, you can catch me, FOX Business, 2:00 p.m. Eastern time, "Making Money." Remember, we're in a real interesting period. The market is near all-time highs, but extraordinarily vulnerable. And this is going to be a very big week, with the jobs report on Friday.

So, lots going on. Thank you very much for watching.

In the meantime, buckle up, because "The Five" starts now.

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