This is a rush transcript from "Your World" September 24, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Thank you, Martha. And what an incredible day.

I'm also talking about developments in Washington, D.C., that had nothing to do with what's going on in the border, but everything to do with you and your money and whether we just shut the government lights off.

We're on top of these startling developments here, including hints today from Nancy Pelosi that they are going to have a vote on Monday on that bipartisan roughly $1 trillion infrastructure package. What is still unknown is whether that will include action the $3.5 trillion so-called human infrastructure package, whose price tag just seems to be going up, up and away.

All of this at a time we hope to avoid that brinkmanship. But stop me if you have heard this before; 78 times before this dating back to 1960, we have been on the brink. You know what happened back in 1960? John F. Kennedy and Richard Nixon were going at it in the presidential election. That was then. Somehow, not enough is changing right now.

So the impact of all of this if -- and, again, it's a big -- if they can coordinate all this, because you have to get this measure done. That is a bipartisan measure, which Nancy Pelosi has promised the moderates they will act on, separately act on the $3.5 trillion stimulus plan, if they can also, deal over the budget that makes sense that can get enough Democratic support, because that's where this stands.

It's going to be Democratic-only support. And that's no guarantee across the board either, and, separately, well avoid the government of the United States defaulting because it's hit the debt ceiling and there's no more ceiling.

Chad Pergram on all these fast-moving developments.

Chad, where do we stand?

CHAD PERGRAM, FOX NEWS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Neil.

Well, Monday will be a crucial day for infrastructure, the same for avoiding a government shutdown and lifting the debt ceiling. A test vote comes late Monday in the Senate to launch debate on the government funding bill and to suspend the debt ceiling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D-NY): Every single member in this chamber is going on -- is going on record as to whether they support keeping the government open and averting a default or support shutting us down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: That needs 60 yeas. GOP members are threatening a filibuster.

Also on Monday, a likely vote on the bipartisan $1.2 trillion infrastructure plan in the House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): The bill will come up on Monday.

QUESTION: And what about the reconciliation? That's going to come next week too?

PELOSI: Have a little patience. Follow it. See it unfold. It's very interesting. We're very encouraged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: President Biden is selling that bill to Democrats as legislation which won't drive up the deficit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is zero price tag on the debt. We're paying, going to pay for everything we spend. It's all paid for. It's all paid for. But a lot of these are flat tax cuts that exist within my proposal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: He says the rich will pay their fair share in taxes. The social spending bill needs help. Some Democrats demand more engagement from the president.

Democrats are fighting with themselves. They released the social spending bill today, 2, 400 pages. Pelosi told members the bill may change -- Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, Chad, so the president is saying this is all paid for. Is it?

Now, that's assuming it's the $3.5 trillion cost. Others -- and we will get into this in a second -- say it's going to be a lot pricier than that. But is it your understanding that this is indeed all paid for?

PERGRAM: We don't have a Congressional Budget Office score. The Budget Committee is meeting this weekend to go through the particulars on this, the fine points.

And when Pelosi says the bill may change, you might be having a lower total number there, and also pay-fors. Nobody really knows. And here's the other thing. Every time they pass one of these big bills, they are never really paid for in the end, because you have real-world events, you have war, you have pandemics, you have other things that happen and it drives up the debt.

Hurricanes, natural disasters, they're almost never paid for, Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, thanks for that little reminder there, Chad Pergram in Washington with more on that.

And we will be following this soap opera, by the way, tomorrow morning 10:00 a.m. Eastern time to see the latest, whether that is coming together, again, 10:00 a.m. Eastern time, as we monitor what's happening at -- I guess the Republican and the Democratic level here.

Charles Payne is with us right now to take a look at whether this all adds up.

Now, Charles, you have heard here that they are insisting this is paid for, which is kind of interesting, because, as Chad pointed out, the CBO has to write off on all of this. Hasn't done that yet.

But that is assuming, first off, it is paid for, and whether we're talking about a $3.5 trillion package or something that's a lot more expensive. This is a lot more expensive than that.

CHARLES PAYNE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Yes, Chad mentioned wars, pandemics. He also forgot accounting tricks or gimmicks.

(LAUGHTER)

PAYNE: Right.

CAVUTO: Yes, right.

PAYNE: It's just -- I know President Biden said, we can go after the trillionaires and billionaires. And, listen, a lot of people have fun with the trillionaire part. There's just not enough money.

This week, Neil, the thing that should strike everyone watching the show is, the Biden administration wants the power to start tracking bank accounts where there's a $600 transaction, $600. They're zeroing in on everyone's wallet.

That's -- and, by the way, the notion of paying for this, in other words, we're going to tax someone, and then put the money in and use it to fund these programs, that -- there's a cost to that, because you're taxing small businesses, because you're taxing large businesses, because you're taxing people who create opportunities and jobs.

There is a huge cost is that it's extremely unavoidable. Ultimately, it boils down to two things. Do you want the government to confiscate this money any -- by any means necessary and be the one that redistribute it, or do you want to maybe a country that's been successful in pulling itself up by the bootstraps to have the opportunity for us to earn these things on their own?

Obviously, there's a role for government, but this is not regular government. President Biden said today $1.9 trillion, he said, his words, fundamentally changed America. I don't think it did. But I think it laid the seeds to fundamentally change America. And that's what we're talking about.

CAVUTO: You know what's interesting as you pick apart the planned spending? There's a lot of way you can make this look like it's $3.5 trillions and say, all right, as long as they stick to $3.5 trillion, right?

But the fact of the matter is, because of some of these accounting gimmicks and because of the expiration of some credits and tax expenditures that sort of phase out, it's actually part of a longer-term deal that will bring up this cost substantially.

Now, we're going to be rolling through some of this. And without getting too much into the weeds, I just want people to know at home that each one of these measures and issues we talk about are examples of how you lift the cost of this, including the extension of the child tax credit, the extension of the expanded child dependent care tax credit, that add tens of billions, hundreds of billions over the course of the years.

And then some of these have phase-out provisions that no Congress in its right mind would risk the political wrath of dropping and essentially then getting accused of raising -- raising taxes.

PAYNE: Right.

CAVUTO: But when you add it all up, Charles, the fact of the matter is, you get over $5 trillion. You get close to $5.5 trillion. You begin to lose count.

PAYNE: Right.

You do. You do. And the Committee For a Responsible Federal Government, that organization did the math. And they're more or less a bipartisan or apolitical organization.

Neil, it's just -- again, we talk about these things in terms of economics to get them passed, to articulate it to the public. And then once they're done, they talk about them the way President Biden did today as being transformational, fundamentally changing the nation.

And that's what the greater thing is here. Our debt did not get to the level that it is right now, $28 trillion and counting, because we ever pay for any of these things. They're not going to be paid for. Isn't it ironic we're having this conversation at the same time we're having a debt ceiling conversation?

If Washington really operated the way they said -- by the way, they knew they couldn't. That's why they created the debt ceiling. They imposed this on themselves to curb their own impulses to overspend.

CAVUTO: That's right.

PAYNE: So all they have done is raised it about 60 or 80 times since 1960.

But we wouldn't have to raise the debt ceiling if all of these things worked out on paper the way they promised. They never do.

CAVUTO: I'm always back to just how you pay for all of this, because, as you quite accurately pointed out, we have never seen any large spending measure that's paid for. It goes on and on and on.

And some of the stipulations in it get renewed and renewed and expanded, which is part of the math we crunched here, Charles. And I'm sure you did as well. But the worry here is that the burden on how it is paid for falls largely on the well-to-do.

And earlier this week, Charles -- and I think you were pursuing it as well -- we actually threw out the hypothetical, what if you just -- talk about the rich and their fair share -- had the rich taxed, the 1 percent, fully 100 percent, take all their money?

So you, Charles, take all your money. And that wouldn't even come close to paying for this, taxing the 1 percent at 100 percent, taking every last penny. That's a serious predicament.

PAYNE: Every last penny.

It is a serious predicament. All anyone has to do is the math. And I think what hurts me the most, honestly, is that we will hear about the Jeff Bezos of the world. We always hear about the Amazons of the world. For a long time, Walmart was the poster child for the company that wasn't paying enough taxes.

But it's not those people who are going to pay, take the brunt of this. And that's what hurts me the most and that's what people better be on guard for.

CAVUTO: Yes, and money can move, right, Charles? Money has a nasty little habit of moving. So we will see what happens there.

Charles Payne, the host of--

PAYNE: It certainly does.

CAVUTO: All right, "Making Money" on FOX Business Network, bestselling author besides, and an all-around great guy, and a snazzy dresser. He copies me all the time.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: But that's OK. That's OK.

Thank you, Charles.

Want to go to Senator Steve Daines right now, the beautiful state of Montana, sits on the Senate Finance Committee.

I don't know how this all gets worked out, Senator. But we do have the promise from Nancy Pelosi -- I don't know a promise, but a commitment -- that, come Monday, that bipartisan infrastructure measure, at least that one, the lean and mean one of only a trillion dollars, will get voted on.

Do you believe that?

SEN. STEVE DAINES (R-MT): Well, I don't know.

Watching the drama unfolding with the Democrats, you have got such a divided group of members there. The far left progressive are having their way. When they stripped the Iron Dome funding out of the bill, something that protects innocent civilians from terrorists, that tells you where the center of gravity is at the moment here and the challenge that Pelosi faces.

But, look, if Democrats are going to keep pushing these purely partisan, far left, massive and reckless tax-and-spending bills, then they're going to raise the debt ceiling on their own. You look at what they passed in March, a $1.9 trillion spending bill that threw gasoline on the inflation fire.

And now they want to push through on a purely partisan basis a $3.5 trillion, at its lowest estimate, massive spending bill. They're going to have to deal with this, because they have left us out completely in any negotiation these spending-and-tax bills.

CAVUTO: All right, well, we have been through this quite a number of times, as you know, Senator, 78 times since 1960. In just the Trump presidency, it happened three times where Mitch McConnell voted to either increase or suspend the debt limit.

In fact, in general, Mitch McConnell has voted for that 32 times under the Democratic and Republican presidents alike. So what's different now?

DAINES: Well, it's very different.

It's unprecedented to see how partisan Washington, D.C., is at the moment with these two huge spending bills. Neil, we have never seen anything like this.

Remember, under President Trump, we passed bipartisan COVID relief packages. And then Biden's elected, Pelosi takes the House, Schumer's got the Senate, and then they threw another $1.9 trillion on purely partisan lines. That was the March vote. And now they want to have this $3.5 trillion.

And, Neil, as you know, it's probably more like $5 trillion, when you take away from new entitlements created, with the free community college, free day care and so forth. So, it's very different. They're doing this on their own.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Senator, you're quite right.

No, no, you're quite right, sir, that -- you're quite right, sir, to talk about the fact that it's happened. The numbers certainly are bigger now. But there was precedent for getting this done even before the COVID relief package that you and President Trump were working on at the time.

There were multiple times prior to that, that we were up against the brink and both parties found a way to get past it. Now that is not happening at all, and maybe for perfectly justifiable reasons. Both parties argue their point.

But is the issue for you that it -- this is so big, you're putting your foot down, that this is unlike those instances, just because of the sheer size of this?

DAINES: It is, Neil.

That $3.5 trillion bill will be the largest spending bill ever passed in the history of the United States. That tax increases they're proposing are the largest tax increase in 50 years. They may be the biggest tax increases in our nation's history.

So they have set a new high water mark, that we have never been to this place before. And, let's remember, the greater threat to this country is not the battle on the debt ceiling. It's the debt itself.

CAVUTO: All right.

DAINES: We're now crossing $28 trillion of debt.

And, frankly, the debt ceiling, it'll get resolved. The Democrats will get this done because they can. They can get this done. Secretary Yellen has said they have got probably to the middle of October, maybe the end of October. They can get this done in easily one week, a procedural protocol in the Senate, and they will have it done.

The bigger issue for me, Neil, is what is going to happen here to this country as we start to sail off now soon to be $30 trillion of debt, debt greater than the GDP. That is a real threat to our kids and our grandkids and the future prosperity and stability of this country.

CAVUTO: We will watch it closely and how things pan out these next few days, Senator.

Thank you very, very much.

In the meantime, other big developments to tell you with on the vaccine booster front, a bit of a divide at the CDC right now vs. the FDA as to the wisdom of limiting these shots, these booster shots for just the elderly and those and those with compromised immune systems -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: I want to be very clear that I did not overrule an advisory committee.

This was a scientific close call. In that situation, it was my call to make. If I had been in the room, I would have voted yes. And that was, yes, how my recommendations came out after listening to all of their scientific deliberations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: All right, so there was a bit of a divide at the CDC, and all the way up to the top, the director, of course, who was recommending that these booster shots be extended to first responders, to those on the health care front line, if you will, and not just the elderly or those with compromised immune system.

So, which is it? Who needs these booster shots? Who should get them? How soon?

Admiral Brett Giroir with us right now, the former Health and Human Services assistant secretary for health under President Trump.

Admiral, very good to have you.

Where are you on this, sir? Who needs these booster shots?

ADM. BRETT GIROIR, FORMER U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: Well, it's a very complex issue, but the scientific community, the advisory committees, voted pretty clearly -- and it was a tough call, but they did vote that, if you're under 65, and you don't have chronic conditions or immunosuppressed, you don't need a booster at this time.

Dr. Walensky, it's her right to overrule that as the CDC director. And she did do that.

I think the bottom line is if you're over 65, you should get a booster if it's been over six months. If you're 50 to 64, and you have chronic conditions, it's a good idea to get a booster. Where we are right now, it's authorized for everyone else. Talk to your physician, because it's not a clear call.

And that's what the scientific community told you.

CAVUTO: Do you think, Admiral, though, that the confusion over this and even the sort of divide within the CDC is going to give pause to those have never been vaccinated at all?

GIROIR: Of course it is, because the message has been confusing, and it's been politicized.

And let's face it, it just looks bad. The president announces a month ago before the science or any data that he's going to have a booster campaign. The science comes out. The scientific community says you don't need it. And the CDC director is doing it anyway.

Now, if that's not confusing or smell of politics, I don't know what is. So, of course, this is going to lead to more vaccine hesitancy. Of course, it's going to backfire in certain communities. And, remember, all the mandates are just the result of a failure of leadership and a failure of communication because people are hesitant to take the vaccine.

So, if you can't convince them take the vaccine, the federal government has decided to coerce them to take the vaccine.

CAVUTO: All right, and I understand what you're saying about coercion and all of that, but people do get mixed signals, even from your old boss, President Trump, right, who did indeed get vaccinated, knows firsthand what it's like to deal with COVID.

GIROIR: Yes.

CAVUTO: But he didn't push too hard. He kind of left it up to people to decide for themselves.

Do you think that adds to the confusion, or people are hearing that and saying, well, I have decided, I'm not really interested, when you yourself were looking into this and strongly urging people to get vaccinated?

GIROIR: So, I do want to urge everyone to get vaccinated.

Vaccines are your clearest way to protect you and your family. And if you fall in that over 65 or 50 to 64 with chronic diseases, get the booster.

I think the president was positive about this. President Trump, this was his vaccine. It was his Operation Warp Speed. They were -- two vaccines were authorized under his watch, and the third soon after. The president got the vaccine.

Look -- look, Neil, if the president did some big event and got vaccinated, I bet 99 percent of the news channels wouldn't cover it, as they didn't cover our vaccine summit that we did at the White House.

So, look, time to stop blaming things on President Trump. Trump administration brought the vaccines. We all know the right thing to do. And I think the president has said the right thing.

CAVUTO: Are you worried that it gets too politicized, though, whether you just said, I don't like President Trump, and then, at the beginning, you start out blaming President Biden for a mixed message?

I get it. I understand. But do people hear this at home, and they just say the hell with it, I'm not going to have any part of this?

GIROIR: Well, I hope they don't do that. But you're asking the questions about the president. So I'm answering those questions.

I want to be very clear that vaccination is an important step. And I urge everyone who is eligible to get the vaccine to please get the vaccine. It's highly protective against hospitalizations.

And this -- quote -- "controversy" that we're having about the CDC, yes, it's a controversy, but we're having it because the data show that two doses are extremely good. And the scientific community are saying, you probably don't need the third dose now.

So don't turn this into a problem with the vaccines. It's because the vaccines are so good. That's why we're having this controversy. So, please, get the vaccines.

It is the safe -- it is the best and most effective way to protect yourselves and your family.

CAVUTO: Well, Admiral, you were quite clear on that.

Thank you very much, sir. Very good seeing you again.

GIROIR: You're welcome. Thank you.

CAVUTO: All right.

In the meantime here, the crisis at the border that just became more of one because of something the president said -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: Have you ever been kicked off an airplane?

Well, there's a list of people who have. And, right now, Delta is saying, that should be a no-fly list, and if you're on it, never fly again -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: It was horrible what you saw, to see people treated like they did, horses nearly running them over and people being strapped. It's outrageous.

I promise you, those people will pay. They will be -- an investigation is under way now, and there will be consequences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: All right. Well, so much for investigations.

It seems that the president has already made up his mind about these images of border guards on horseback just trying to deal with the overwhelming wave of Haitian immigrants coming into this country, migrants, more to the point, illegally.

Be that as it may, it's got -- stirred a great dust-up over who's seeing what. The photographer who took a lot of these pictures, the actual photographs that have made their way around the world, said he saw no, no mean or deliberate actions, cruel or otherwise, that were depicted in the images that he took.

Peter Doocy at the White House on the back-and-forth on this -- Peter

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Neil, forget what you just heard with the president calling for consequences and saying that people will pay.

The White House says he is not prejudging the investigation into what exactly happened. But I had a chance to ask the DHS secretary, Alejandro Mayorkas, if that kind of language is helpful. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: Before the facts are in, is it helpful to your investigation for the president of the United States to use inflammatory language like people being strapped?

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, let me just be very clear and repeat what I have said.

I am not concerned with respect to the integrity of the investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: I also had a chance to ask Secretary Mayorkas why it is that four days ago, when he was in Del Rio, Texas, he explained away those images by saying the mounted patrols just use long reins to control their horses.

He told me that he made that statement before he had seen the images in question. I also had a chance to build on some reporting that we have been doing for the last few days about President Biden not going to the border as president, vice president, senator, or concerned citizen. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: Why hasn't President Biden ever visited the Southern border?

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What would you like him to do at the Southern border? And what impact do you think that would have on the policies?

DOOCY: Why doesn't he want to go?

PSAKI: I don't think it's an issue of wanting to go. I think it's an issue of what's most constructive to address what we see as a challenging situation at the border and a broken immigration system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: Still, the president did say that he takes responsibility for the issues at the border lately -- Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, Peter, thank you very, very much.

Peter Doocy on that.

And, again, a Border Patrol representative saying this is all blown out of proportion. But one thing that struck me, if you're going to leap on the oddities and pictures that frame your argument, is what you might miss when you're looking at the identical picture.

This has become very familiar. I want you to focus on something behind the border guard on the horse, to the left of your screen, and we have sort of blurted out, a Haitian child naked.

The investigation is on the guy in the horse, not the status of the child naked mere feet from it.

We will have more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: That manhunt continues right now for Brian Laundrie. They just can't find him.

But they are trying to isolate where he could be.

Phil Keating has more from Venice, Florida -- Phil.

PHIL KEATING, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Neil.

Day six now in the search for 23-year-old Brian Laundrie is soon to wrap up here behind me in the swampy Florida backcountry. With the federal arrest warrant now out for him, that certainly escalates the urgency for law enforcement to find him.

These are today arrows of the challenging search in the Carlton Reserve today, this expansive 25,000 acres. That's 40 square miles. These teams have been trudging through the thick brush and the water, avoiding alligators and venomous snakes. Most of it is underwater, but still no Laundrie, who is no longer just a person of interest in the disappearance of his fiance, Gabby Petito.

He is now a wanted fugitive. That's because, late yesterday, a federal grand jury indicted him for use of unauthorized access devices related to Mr. Laundrie's activities following the death of Gabrielle Petito. This alleges that Laundrie committed debit card fraud between August 30 and September 1, illegally charging or cashing out more than $1,000.

The federal indictment is not related to her -- Gabby Petito's death, which is ruled a homicide.

This is police video of the couple in August in Moab, Utah, after a caller reported seeing a man slapping a woman and a couple in an apparent domestic situation. Well, the couple was let go with a cooling off, not apart. Police there are now investigating themselves, whether training for such an incident was followed properly.

So, now, with this federal worn out now for Brian Laundrie's arrest, not just law enforcement here in Florida, but nationwide, if they spot him, they are compelled to arrest him and put him in handcuffs. But, of course, the top priority here is, number one, you have got to find him, which is something that has been fruitless here all week long for the search teams - - Neil.

CAVUTO: Phil Keating, thank you for that.

To Joe Cardinale, the former NYPD lieutenant.

Joe, are they even in the right place? Could we get this wrong, that he's not even there?

JOE CARDINALE, FORMER NYPD LIEUTENANT: Oh, they could be in the wrong place. But they have to rule it out, Neil.

CAVUTO: Right.

CARDINALE: I mean, a lot of calls came in, and maybe the parents steered them in that direction. So they have to eliminate it, no matter what, and then go in the next direction.

I think the public's assistance in this was tremendous before, and I think it'll come into play in the future. I mean, let's face it. He has a great head start. And the help of his parents, if he is out of the country, which there is a good shot that he could be, right, he has a great head start on everybody.

So, law enforcement has to play catchup, but they have to play -- they can't get tunnel vision. They have to look at all sides of this. And they have to say, well, could it be this, could it be that? And, believe me, the detectives down to Florida and the FBI going are every direction possible with the physical evidence they have, with the forensic evidence they have.

What they found at the house is most certainly important. And then neighbors have given them statements saying that they sold them pack up a camper with him and go. So I think the pressure will be put on the parents to accomplish something in the future.

CAVUTO: This issue of debit card fraud at a key time, no indications whose card that was it he stole or had. What do you make of that?

CARDINALE: Well, that's what they have now. That's what they have. They have a bona fide case with that right now. So that's what they're focusing on right now, Neil.

So they will take that, and they will use it to get him into custody. And then they will further the investigation probably once they have him in and see what he -- he's lawyered up, though. He's really not going to say anything. So I think the forensic evidence can tie in. So we will see what happens.

But I think the parents are key in this right now. And I think everybody should agree on that, if they did aid and abet him in his escape, and furnish him with the funds and the means to elude the police at this point.

So I think the next few days are going to be crucial. And I think, once they keep developing the evidence, they will -- we will see what they have to say about it. But I think pressure should be put on the parents if they did help him with this. I mean, a lot of things don't add up.

The fact that his call was at the preserve and then they brought it back, I mean, that makes no sense whatsoever. If he was out doing a hike -- and that's what they told the police -- why wouldn't you leave the vehicle there for him to return to, to come home? Why are you taking away his means of coming back?

I think it's just a smokescreen that they're putting up right now, giving him more time, hoping that it buys him more time wherever he is. He could be in another country that's not an extraditable country back to the United States. Could be Cuba, one of those countries. And you don't know.

And if he did create his own demise, and it's in that area, it's going to be tough to find him if he did with all the wildlife that's back there.

CAVUTO: You're right. It is a very inhospitable environment.

Joe Cardinale, very good seeing you. Thank you for joining us, the former NYPD Lieutenant Joe Cardinale.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: In the meantime here, we have been telling you about just getting a list of those who've acted up and been kicked off airplanes. They do have that list, and Delta is leading the charge to have all airlines share that same list, a no-fly list.

You're on it, you can never fly with any of them again -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, you act up, up there while you're flying, they put you on a list. And it's a list that's gotten pretty long.

Delta calls it a no-fly list, and he wants it for all unruly passengers that, once you're on it, you can never fly again with any airline

Jackie DeAngelis on where all of this is going -- Jackie.

JACKIE DEANGELIS, FOX BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you, Neil.

That's right. You have got more Americans flying, and there's this unexpected consequence of COVID-19, these unruly passengers, right? We have all seen the videos of flight disruptions, new rules for travel, including wearing masks.

It makes some people angry. In fact, complaints are on the rise. According to the FAA, it's logged nearly 4, 300 unruly passenger reports since January. Now, Delta already has more than 1, 600 people on its independent no-fly list, but Delta wants to take it one step further.

The airlines sent a memo to employees earlier this week advocating for a national no-fly list to ban passengers who have been reprimanded from any travel because of inappropriate behavior. But, of course, creating a national no-fly list would be more involved.

Delta says that yesterday's House hearing on rage in the skies is a starting point for the conversation. Listen to one airline worker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRY ANDREWS, AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT ATTENDANT: These days, I come to work anticipating disruptive behavior. It feels like flight attendants have become the target for all kinds of frustration.

But every day, flight attendants are disrespected for the job we are trained to do. My colleagues are anxious and fearful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEANGELIS: But, of course, Neil, opponents of this argue it's just all gone way too far.

And what constitutes unruly behavior, per se, having rules and regulations, it seems reasonable, but, of course, context matters as well -- Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, Jackie, thank you very much.

We are still awaiting word again on Capitol Hill whether they are going to go ahead and vote on that lean, mean infrastructure-only package. And I say lean and mean. Only these days can a trillion dollars be deemed as such.

I wonder what conservative thinker George Will thinks? I will ask him, because he's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: You know, it used to be that a trillion dollars was the entire budget of the United States of America. Today, it is just one package, and considered a lean and mean package, at that, because it's only a trillion dollars.

I'm talking about the bipartisan infrastructure-only package that Nancy Pelosi promises could get voted on, on Monday.

I wonder what that says and about our times, where that is considered responsible spending?

George Will is here with us right now, the great conservative thinker, Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist, just a brilliant writer.

And it's proven again in his latest book, "American Happiness and Discontents: The Unruly Torrent, 2008-2020."

George, good to have you.

GEORGE WILL, CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: Good to be with you.

Neil, half-a-century ago, Everett Dirksen, the Illinois senator who was the leader of Senate Republicans, joked. He said, a billion dollars here, a billion there, it adds up to real money.

(LAUGHTER)

WILL: Now a billion doesn't add up to real money, because we only deal in trillion-dollar tranches.

CAVUTO: No, not at all.

WILL: In fact, you know. You're a political ornithologist, as am I.

And you know that the deficit hawk is a bird so rarely seen that he's on the endangered species list. I think the political class in Washington is more united by class interests than it is divided by ideology. I'm more alarmed by the consensus in Washington than I am by the discord.

And the consensus is that we should have a large, evermore generous, evermore providing welfare state, and not pay for it. Everyone's agreed on that. We're going to give the American people a dollar's worth of government. We're going to charge them 75 cents for it.

They're happy. Everyone's happy, except the unborn, unconsenting future generations from which we're borrowing to fund our current consumption of government goods and services. And if that isn't decadent democracy, what is?

CAVUTO: If you think about it, George, the debt just keeps piling up and up and up.

And it -- I don't know, at this level, if it can ever be addressed. What's even more startling, when Americans are polled on their top five worries, this doesn't even come up. What does that tell you?

WILL: It tells me that they're enjoying this. It tells us that they're buying into the phrase that I just love in today's economists.

They say there will be no interest rate rise. And if interest rates goes up, the cost of government borrowing goes up. The budget simply explodes. But the economists say, we don't see an interest rate for the foreseeable future.

Neil, in May 2008, the foreseeable future did not extend to September 2008, when Lehman Brothers went bankrupt.

CAVUTO: That's right. That's right. You're right.

WILL: So, the foreseeable future is one of those phrases that should be stricken from the language of economists.

CAVUTO: You know, I'm just wondering.

In reading these -- and it's really a collection of columns, close to 200, over this period. But one of the things you touch on again and again, which makes me think you're more of a libertarian, I guess, than just a conservative, because you had your rows going back. You were the first prominent columnist to tell Richard Nixon to resign back in the 1970s.

You were no fan of Donald Trump. But you did talk about just reining in our appetite for -- as you put it, "to dispense benefits and replace it with a government that defends the shores, fills the potholes, and otherwise gets out of the way. We're going to see again the creativity of the American people."

I think you were expressing more hope than reality then.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: But are we ever closer to that?

WILL: Well, not right now.

I mean, look, they're thinking of another $3.5 trillion, which, as you showed in your earlier segment on this program, is really 5 plus trillion dollars. Now, who in America believes that the government is going to make more efficient, productive, socially useful use of $5.5 trillion than the private sector would make at it? Please.

CAVUTO: So, when you look at all of that, you have referred to both parties as sort of -- I don't want to put words in your mouth, George, but -- because you express it far more eloquently than I -- as kind of morphed into one another.

You say: "The GOP officials are terrified and afraid of a large portion of their base." In this case, I guess you're talking about the Donald Trump base and the direction that party is going in.

But if that remains the case, what is the future of the Republican Party, as you see it? Or maybe this is how it evolves.

WILL: Well, the future of the Republican Party is either subservience to the former 45th president, or it is a scramble for a new generation of leaders, Tom Cotton, Ben Sasse, and all the rest of it.

I don't see a middle ground there. Were Mr. Trump to decide not to run in 2024, you would have probably, Neil, 18 20 people on stage in the early debates. And I think that's healthy.

CAVUTO: Yes.

WILL: But, first, he has to decide.

CAVUTO: Do you think that this obsession with President Trump, then -- I'm sorry, George -- is not healthy?

WILL: I think it's extremely unhealthy to reduce a party to a personality of one person.

You -- the Republican Party has literally lost its mind, in the sense that it used to be the party of ideas. Pat Moynihan said in the 1970s, something momentous has happened. The Republican Party is now the party of ideas. And the ideas had to do with free markets and great thinkers like Hayek and others.

Now, it's their -- ideas don't enter into it. It's all about sort of name- calling and making the other side unhappy. Conservative happiness today is the unhappiness of the other side. And that's really not an attractive feature to go to the country.

CAVUTO: And it's driven by the loudest, sharpest voices, right?

You wrote: "History is made by intense compact minorities." I think, by extension, we're looking at people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and then who speak loudly and disproportionately past their own weight class, I guess, but that that is a trend that worries you here.

WILL: Absolutely.

See, a lot of people say, gee, we didn't know that Joe Biden was so liberal. He's not so liberal. He's a Democrat. He's a party man. And he goes where the party is pushed. And the party is pushed by the intense, compact minority of the progressives today.

In the scramble for the nomination in 2020, the Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren cohort got one-third of the votes. Biden won by promising not to be like that, to save the country from people like that.

CAVUTO: Right.

WILL: Instead, he's pulled along in their slipstream these days.

CAVUTO: Yes, you're right. But hope springs eternal. We will see what happens.

I know you feel the same way about the Washington Nationals. Sorry about that.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: But there is next year, George.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: All right. Thank you very much, my friend.

"American Happiness and Discontents: The Unity -- The Unruly Torrent, 2008- 2020," just a man who can speak in the fewest words and say volumes, and be respected by both sides because he can. Very few are able to come close.

That will do it here. I will see you tomorrow morning with the latest from Washington.

In the meantime, here comes "The Five."

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