Who is to blame for the border crisis?

close

Video

Who is to blame for the border crisis?

What will it take for Republicans to step up? Rep. Steve Scalise and former ICE director Tom Homan weigh in.

This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," November 26, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

LAURA INGRAHAM, HOST: I'm Laura Ingraham. This is "The Ingraham Angle" from Washington. Majority whip Steve Scalise, Tom Homan, Sol Wisenberg, Matt Schlapp, Mollie Hemingway, a lot more going to join us in moments. But first, let's get into the big news of the day. How to heal a lame duck? Yes, that's the focus of tonight's Angle.

If you have caught any news about the border crisis in the last 24 hours, you have been subjected to a disgusting and blatant attempt at emotional manipulation. Now, at a time when we actually need something called real reporting, instead we get this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: Look at the photo. See for yourself. That group includes men, women, and several children, some of them trying to cross after being denied access to the port of entry where they could legally claim asylum.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One photo shows a mother struggling to scoop up her children and flee the fumes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This photo shared around the world shows a family running from the fumes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: That's it, it's the one photo. On Sunday, in a brazen act of lawlessness, scores of migrants attempted to rush the border, and they placed our agents, our sovereignty, in peril. Border patrol had two choices. Let them over on the U.S. border like what they did to Mexico or Guatemala or use nonlethal teargas to repel the crowd.

Now, these are the only images the media are circulating -- women and children who appear to be running for their lives. The hyperbole, the meter on the hyperbole was in full tilt mode.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a shameful American moment. It's a shameful American moment. Those children, those pictures are the pictures we saw at the end of the Vietnam War.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Now, no one wants to see children in distress. But that comment was an embarrassment. And remember, Donald Trump didn't create this crisis. His foremost responsibility is safeguarding the nation, which is what he's doing. Reporters who are either lazy or agenda-driven are using their own toxic agents to blur the eyes of the public on this critical issue. Now, this is what really happened on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRANDON JUDD, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: The way these people rushed the border was absolutely monstrous. They pushed women and children up front and then behind those women and children, they started throwing rocks, cement bricks. They started throwing bottles at our Border Patrol agents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Just a bunch of modern-day patriots. And as for the mothers and children, well, do they make up the bulk of those arrested? No. Here is our San Diego border Chief Rodney Scott.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RODNEY SCOT, SAN DIEGO BORDER PATROL CHIEF: We are making about 42 arrests, only eight of those were females and there were only a few children involved. The vast majority, the people we are dealing with are adult males similar to what we saw of the first wave of the caravan that came up about a week or so ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Now -- in total now, about 69 arrests have been made and the crisis continues to escalate, which THE ANGLE repeatedly warned you would happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: A new migrant caravan from Central America, the second in six months, is now headed up through Mexico to the United States this week. Crusading reporters are feeding the narrative that anyone opposed to welcoming these caravans into our country are cruel, horrible, awful, rotten people.

These caravans, it's got to stop. I mean, it's just -- it's untenable. It's unsustainable. The people in this country want orderly immigration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Well, of course the atom splitters over at the other networks claimed it was no big deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no invasion. There is no emergency.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are panicked about this fake invasion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For everybody out there that was telling me, no, it's a real story. We are worried about the caravan to come in and Trump strong enough to -- I go back to what I said about Martians coming to my backyard. They are not coming and the caravan is not coming. The leprosy is not coming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: A thought is not coming. It's not just the media know nothings though who need to be exposed here. We are making a list and we are checking it twice. And others have been very naughty as well on this issue. One of the prime drivers of these never ending caravans are groups such as Pueblo sin Fronteras and a Chicago-based Sentro Sin Fronteras.

They have been organizing this caravan and other caravans for months, in fact, years. And Pueblo Sin Fronteras even put out a press release, this was last March. It reads like some type of primer for a borderless world. This is my favorite line in the press release, "We demand of Mexico and the United States that they open the borders to the U.S. because we are as much citizens as the people of the countries where we are and/or travel."

What? OK, they are not American citizens, but this is a classic citizens of the world claptrap that's been funded by billionaires who want transmigration to be universal right. Now, number two on our naughty list, activist judges. Acting like a super legislature, district court judges continue to frustrate the president's every initiative when it comes to immigration enforcement.

Just last week, the president was hit with two devastating rulings. In the first case, Judge Jon S. Tigar, an Obama appointee from the Ninth Circuit (inaudible) bar the president from limiting asylum claims to those who enter the country legally.

Then in Michigan, a Judge Marc Goldsmith ordered the release of nearly 100 Iraqis who were incarcerated under the Trump travel ban. Now, all of this explains why the president is running very short on patience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: It's a shame. It's a shame. It's a disgrace frankly. Some judge sitting at some location very far away is telling our incredible military and law enforcement what to do, and it's not right and that's been going on like that for a long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: These nationwide injunctions got to be stopped. Now, he's absolutely right. Certain judges have completely abandoned their article III limits and are totally out of control. But Congress, perhaps more than all of the other culprits on this naughty list, deserves the most of the blame here.

Now, both parties could have solved this nightmare had they acted to shore up the asylum loopholes while Obama was still president. Democrats should have struck a deal also with Trump while the iron was hot last January.

Republicans were willing to grant a pathway to citizenship for nearly 2 million illegals, fixing the DACA problem. They (inaudible) do this for a limit on chain migration and visa lottery and of course the funding for his border wall. Now Trump was actually excited about the prospect of this deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I will consider that a great achievement to solve the DACA problem. It's been out there a long time. These are good people. These are people that should be able to stay in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Now, it didn't matter. Schumer rejected this out of hand. It was more important in the end for the Democrats to deny Trump a win on immigration than it was for the Democrats to agree to protect our country. And even avoid the type of crisis we see on the border now.

Now, at the same time, many weak-kneed Republicans, many of whom are captive to agribusiness or the hospitality or construction industries, were unwilling to go to the map (ph) for the Trump agenda. So nothing ended up getting done.

With 12 legislative days left until they lose power in the House and only 15 in the senate, Republicans must unite and make passing Trump's immigration enforcement agenda a priority. Working through Christmas and shutting down the government, yes, if that's necessary.

This is a crisis that must be addressed immediately. And we know that once Nancy has the gavel back, the Democrats answer to things like this. It will be to just simply allow the situation to worsen, encouraging thousands more to storm our borders and put women and children at risk.

The Republicans meanwhile have a chance to make this short session of Congress a lot less lame by addressing the most immediate problem facing our country today. But I am telling you if the Republicans duck it once again, they shouldn't expect to be back in charge anytime soon. And that's the Angle.

Joining me now with reaction is House majority whip Steve Scalise, author of the great new book "Back in the Game" along with Tom Homan, former acting director of ICE and a Fox News contributor. Congressman, let's start with you. The House GOP only has 12 days left. Was I too harsh on my ANGLE. there on where I'm laying --

REP. STEVE SCALISE, R-LA., MAJORITY WHIP: Laura, thank you, you laid out the landscape really well and clearly this goes back to Barack Obama's presidency when he created the DACA problem without ever trying to solve it. He said literally come to America illegally, bring your kids here illegally. He never tried to fix it.

They never, in fact, when Pelosi had the House, they had a super majority in the Senate. They never tried to bring a bill to fix the problem. They wanted a political issue. And so they never tried to fix it. As you pointed out again, President Trump comes into office, Chuck Schumer initially was willing to work with him on a solution to DACA that included funding for the wall.

Then the radical left went nuts and Schumer pulled the deal off the table. We have tried to pass bills through the House to solve the interior loophole problems that you've cited so many times, as well as funding the wall. Not one Democrat. We've had two different approaches on this, so no matter where you are on this, there was a chance for you to vote to solve a problem. Not one Democrat voted for any of those bills.

INGRAHAM: Could have shut down the government, right?

SCALISE: Well, we still have, by the way, in the next two weeks the Department of Homeland Security's budget expires at the end of November. And this is going to be one more battle that we're going to have and it's going to happen in the next few weeks right here in (inaudible).

INGRAHAM: We're hearing, Tom, Joni Ernst was on one of the other shows last night or yesterday. I watched it last night. Republican senator from Iowa was basically saying we can't shut down this government for the wall. These are the Republicans that we are dealing with here.

I mean, Steve Scalise has done a yeoman's work with everything he's been through to try to stand for the American people. They are not many who will. You have seen this. You and I sat here at this table, Tom, and you said to me watch what happens. It's going to get worse and worse and worse and right now we have 5,000 people a week crossing our border illegally separate from the caravan.

TOM HOMAN, FORMER ICE ACTING DIRECTOR: Look, I have been at this game for 34 years and unfortunately everything I said is coming true and I tell you, we had some great Republican congressmen take the bull by the horns. We had McCall (inaudible) was a great bill. And a lot of Republicans -- some of the Republicans senator support it. Of course, no Democrats did.

But that fixed the problem. It fixed the loopholes. It fixed all the loopholes and gave some relief. Perfect bill. And I said it many times in your show Laura, I don't care if you're Republican or Democrat, there is no downside on securing the border, none.

INGRAHAM: Paul Ryan is on his way out. I like him personally but he has never wanted to fund this wall. I'm going to say, Paul Ryan has never wanted to fund this wall. He didn't want to deal with this problem for a whole bunch of reasons. He was never comfortable with the president's immigration agenda.

I think that looking back, that ended up really hurting the Republicans. If you don't have someone at the helm who is championing what the president is doing, and I don't think McConnell really want to do it either. I mean, he talks a good game but I don't think either of them really wanted to do it.

SCALISE: We were able to get a $1.5 billion of new funding for border wall in this year's budget. Obviously, we want more. The president has asked for $5 billion. I would like to see us get there. We have had a number of bills to try to solve that problem. Let me make this point about the end of the year funding for the Department of Homeland Security.

When people talk about a government shutdown, they try to use it in a pejorative term to try to scare people. Over 70 percent of the United States government is fully funded until the end of next year's fiscal year including the Department of Defense, which is critically important.

In the past, you saw Obama use our troops as hostages to try to say hey, the troops won't get paid unless you give me X, Y or Z. We have now fully funded the entire Department of Defense, including given a pay raise to our troops. That goes through September 30th of next year. So now, all we are talking about is an important part of government but it's less than 30 percent, including the Department of Homeland Security.

That's where the wall funding comes in. So, there will be no widespread government shutdown. It's all about funding the Department of Homeland Security and building the wall.

HOMAN: I have to add this. In addition to the wall funding, ICE needs funding for beds, because ICE cannot detain people arrested at the border and this catch and release again, more caravans going to come. There's no consequence to deterrence, why would they stop?

INGRAHAM: Rodney Scott, I know you know him. I have interviewed him so many times including down at the border in San Diego. He said what we are seeing, contrary to what all of these bleeding heart media types, most of whom would not sponsor illegal immigrants if they had to personally guarantee their economic independence, they would never do it.

But they talk a good emotional game when you see the pictures, the sad picture of the people fleeing -- but Rodney Scott knows this of sector better than anyone, said this. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT: What I saw on the border yesterday was not people walking up to Border Patrol agents and asking to claim asylum. They were chanting, waving a Honduran flag and throwing rocks at the agents. If they were truly asylum-seekers, they would have just walked up with their hands up and surrendered, and that did not take place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOMAN: And I know Rodney Scott. He's a great American patriot. And I'll add this, look. The border (inaudible) the tear gas out (inaudible) sending on rock throwers. They didn't send it on women and children. Of course the wind drift and that happens. However, you know, I want to give a shout out to NBC. They did a great storytelling.

You know what they did? They interviewed that woman with the two children in the picture and she came out and said she was coming to the country to join her husband who was illegal in the country in Louisiana. Nothing about fear and persecution.

So I hope that is exhibit A in her future political asylum case. This is exactly what I said. People are coming to get a job or people come here to rejoin love ones (ph).

INGRAHAM: So it's a big lie. I'm trying to illustrate for people is that we actually need real reporters who put aside, whether they don't like Trump, like Trump, and they say this is how we got here. Real persecution is happening all over the world. Congressman, do you know what's happening to people like Asia Bibi, a woman in Pakistan, Catholic.

SCALISE: -- make this point too, Laura. President Trump was very clear in saying that there is a legal way to come to America to seek asylum and there is an illegal way. We're not going to let you just storm a border and climb a fence. Go to a port of entry and state your case. Make your claim. That's the way to do it.

INGRAHAM: Mexico is going to help us, I think.

(CROSSTALK)

SCALISE: The Tijuana mayor -- even the Tijuana mayor said they are getting a overridden with some of these people that are coming to attack law enforcement officers. Not to seek asylum. And by the way, most of them pass through at least one other country already that offered asylum.

INGRAHAM: How many laws have they violated, Tom. How many laws they violate before they get to San Ysidro on average?

HOMAN: Several, several. They enter the country legally. First crime is a misdemeanor. However, a lot of these people based on our intelligence have been deported before so when they enter the country illegally, that's a felony. But one thing I want to say from the naysayers and teargas, need to get this out. For those naysayers, put on a uniform, strap a gun to your hip, get rocks thrown at you and tell me there wasn't a better response. It was non-lethal law enforcement response that was proper considering they're being assaulted.

SCALISE: And where were they when the Obama administration was using teargas?

INGRAHAM: Yes, back in 2013, you have to disperse a crowd. How do you disperse a crowd? But Rihanna calls it terrorism, guys. Rihanna is upset. She doesn't have security at her concerts, right? Let's let everybody through her concert.

Anyone who wants to go on-stage with Rihanna, not only can they go on-stage but they can get a hot meal at her house afterwards. I don't think so. Guys, thank you so much.

And what we saw yesterday at the border reminded us that the media hand- wringing over this expanding caravan is getting worse by the day as I've just said. But there is one exchange in particular that stood out. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I wanted to challenge you on one of the statements that you made in the tail end of the campaign, in the midterms, that this caravan was an invasion. As you notice --

TRUMP: I considered it to be an invasion.

ACOSTA: As you know, Mr. President, the caravan was not an invasion. It's a group of migrants moving up from Central America towards the border with the U.S. Your campaign had an ad showing migrants climbing over walls and so on.

TRUMP: That's true. They weren't actors. They weren't actors.

ACOSTA: They are not going to be doing that. They are hundreds of miles away though. They are hundreds and hundreds of miles away. That's not an invasion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: None of these reporters should still be working in this business. It's dereliction of duty. There should be a price to be paid there. Joining us now, how the media missed the story from the start purposely -- missed the story is Mollie Hemingway, senior editor from "The Federalist." Mollie, what are the chances of Jim Acosta apologizes and not only getting this wrong, but telling the president he was wrong.

MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, SENIOR EDITOR, THE FEDERALIST: But it's really an amazing exchange to go back and look at. It looked bad at the time, the way he was pontificating and giving his opinion which was not based in fact. The way he was belligerent with that reporter. That was an embarrassment at the time.

After this weekend, it is a complete and utter humiliation. And this is the guy who is sort of the mascot of the White House Press Corps. They have decided to make him the guy that they all rally behind. And he could not have been more wrong about the facts, but he's actually just doing what a lot of media have done.

There have been so many false statements said about this caravan, whether it's that it's largely comprised of women and children or that these are valid asylum-seekers or that there is no criminal element or that they will never make it to the border or that they will never scale the border or that they are no threat to sovereignty and they are no threat to the United States.

All of that was completely exploded this weekend and it would be nice to see the media react more honestly about that. Instead, they are doing what you pointed out in the first segment which is taking a picture of one woman and her children and making them --

INGRAHAM: Oh, I saw that coming a mile away. Didn't you see that a mile away? Once they got the photo of the woman wearing the tangled shirt, whatever that cartoon character was and you knew that was going to be it because that is a lazy man's way of reporting a story. Lazy, lazy, lazy.

Do your job. Put your Trump bias in the backseat for five seconds and try to be honest about this story. I find it appalling. I got to play something for you Mollie that even you may not believe. This is Mike Lupica who is really good at writing about sports. He's now a political guy. This is what he said. Let's watch. I think we have the Mike Lupica. Do we have it? It's coming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE LUPICA, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: And I keep asking this question. When is the first guy from the caravan going to shoot up a synagogue on a Saturday morning? When is the first person from a caravan going to shoot up a dance club in southern California or a country music festival in Las Vegas?

Every time there's another mass shooting in this country, one of my first reactions after I am struck again by the horror of the routiness in this country is please don't let it be an immigrant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Please don't let it be an immigrant. Real quick, Mollie.

HEMINGWAY: Look, human nature is the same across immigrant or nonimmigrant populations. What comments like that are doing are saying that you aren't allowed to have a conversation about rule of law, national sovereignty, borders. That's inappropriate.

INGRAHAM: All right, Mollie Hemingway, thanks so much. We have a lot more to get to. This story is breaking as we speak tonight. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROWD SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Now, as we noted in tonight's ANGLE, the left in the media often use this emotional imagery to tell you just one side of the story from the border. But what really happened when agents dispersed gas canisters into crowds of migrants trying to break through the southern border? For more, here's a report from Fox News Jeff Paul in Tijuana, Mexico.

JEFF PAUL,FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well the scene outside the main migrant shelter is overwhelming. You have people walking in all sorts of different directions. Thousands still living inside, others now moving to the outside where they were living in tents. And despite all these crowds that you're seeing out here, things are relatively peaceful compared to what just happened the day before.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection reporting that rocks were thrown at at least four agents. No injuries but as a result, teargas and pepper spray balls were used to get the crowd to disperse. There were also several arrests and others who just ran to safety looking for cover.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translation): When went to that side, it was when they started throwing teargas at us. And there were many children who fainted. Many young children fainted. My daughter also got gassed. Pregnant women and there are many men who also fainted.

PAUL: There were arrests on both sides of the border both in Tijuana and in the United States. Seventy-nine people arrested in the United States for trying to cross the border illegally. Despite that showing of force from authorities on both sides of the border, many of the migrants out here remain hopeful that one day they will somehow still be able to gain access to the U.S., Laura.

INGRAHAM: All right, Jeff, thanks. Now, what about the agents involved? Is anyone telling their stories? Well, imagine if a mass of humanity charge at you, wanting to enter your home. Maybe come live with you for a while, throwing rocks and waving another country's flag.

Well, while the agents themselves aren't able to speak out at the moment, they are allowed to talk with their representatives. One joins us now to share what he has learned. Hector Garza is the National Border Patrol Council president and is with us tonight from San Antonio.

Hector, what are the people on your team telling you on the ground? You just saw a report about what happened and another -- a very emotional woman who said they just started throwing teargas canisters at us. That's not actually what happened but that's what she said. What did they encounter?

HECTOR GARZA, VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: Well, our agents were actually under attack. They were assaulted. These migrants were throwing rocks. They were throwing glass bottles. And they were also throwing other debris that was in the area. And as a matter fact, some of our agents were hit on their helmets with these rocks.

And there were minor injuries. There was also damage to government vehicles and the windows were broken. So, this is an assault. This is an invasion on our agents, on our country. And our agents had to respond with a very low level of force, which is the teargas that was deployed.

INGRAHAM: Now, we have heard from everyone from Mexican government officials to Guatemalan officials who said from the beginning that the use of women and children at the front of these lines, whether they are crossing the bridge into Mexico from Guada or breaking the border into Guatemala from Honduras, that this was done very deliberately with careful planning.

Unfortunately, the children end up casualties, the ones who aren't trafficked, end up as casualties in all these or injured or traumatized. But they want to blame, Hector, President Trump because I guess the border should just be open and people should be able to come in 100 at a time and fill out a form and say I want asylum.

GARZA: Well, these people think that they're going to do the same thing they did on the Guatemala-Mexico border. They are wrong. Our agents are properly trained. They are going to be using reasonable force. And something that they are reporting to us is that these migrants were using these children as human shields as they were launching rocks at our agents.

So, they had no regard for human life. They did not care about the other migrants. They did not care about the kids. And our agents did a great job by using teargas to be able to disperse the crowd. Now, our agents could have been justified to use a higher level of force but they did not. They used a very low level of force and they were successful. They did a great job out there.

INGRAHAM: But Hector, what if the numbers increase? What if they swell?

GARZA: Well, we are going to have to keep using the same strategy. The good thing is we have the military and that's what President Trump did for us. We are going to have to deploy more resources to the area. But it is going to get out of control and that's why Congress needs to act and we have to make sure that we do build that wall so that we can avoid these types of confrontations because people will end up getting hurt.

Now again, our agents are properly trained and they're going to do the best job that they can out there, but again, these caravans, they need to stop and we need to do our job and also Mexico needs to do their job as well in helping us on the southern border.

INGRAHAM: They should never have been trucked up to the border. Many of them were trucked up. They should never have been allowed to cross New Mexico. There's a series of things that had to happen for this situation to result in the crisis that it is today. Hector, thank you very much.  And please think the Border Patrol for us. They are doing incredible work under very difficult circumstances, and being maligned by everyone from Hollywood actors and actresses who themselves -- how many immigrants would a sponsor in their homes if they had to? And politicians and business types. So we really thank you so much.

And by the way, those crashing our southern border, of course, are referred to in blanket terms, like they are migrants seeking a better life. They are asylum-seekers. They're would be refugees. But they wouldn't be criminals, right? No.

Joining us now to explain is former immigration judge Art Arthur, currently resident fellow in law at the Center for Immigration Studies. Art, you have dealt with this issue. You and I have been talking about this now for months. And I'm actually sad to say that we predicted this, because it would have been great if this never happened, because people's lives are put in jeopardy. Our sovereignty is imperiled. And now we have the vilification of President Trump because the situation became the boiling pot that it is right now.

ART ARTHUR, FORMER IMMIGRATION JUDGE: You see a variety of crimes that these individuals have committed. Entering the United States illegally is a violation of Eight United States code Section 1325. It's a misdemeanor, as Mr. Homan indicated before. Some of these individuals have entered the United States previously. That's a felony. Assault on a federal officer is a crime. It's a felony in and of itself.

So we see a number of these individuals committing crimes. In addition, Secretary of Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen indicated that there are 500 criminals and gang members that are included in this group of individuals. Quite frankly, I think that number is probably low, because the numbers that we have is only as good as the intelligence.

INGRAHAM: Art, my other Border Patrol sources are telling me that 5,000 illegal immigrants a week, the whole caravan down there, a week are crossing other sectors. As everyone is focused on this, 5,000 coming in through Yuma, through Laredo, the Rio Grande. It's being swamped.

ARTHUR: The RGV is completely overrun right now.

INGRAHAM: What is the RGV again? Oh, Rio Grande Valley.

ARTHUR: Rio Grande Valley.

INGRAHAM: I am quick. Thank you.

ARTHUR: The Rio Grande Valley is completely overrun right now. These individuals have gone to Tijuana probably because it's the Ninth Circuit and they have the best chance of getting relief and getting released there.  But the fact is that we see a huge of migrants enter through Matamoros and Eagle Pass. So those sectors are also overrun by individuals. And again, the first act that they commit in the United States is a criminal one.

INGRAHAM: And they have committed many crimes along the way. Other countries sovereignty, sometimes assaults on other countries border patrol.

This is what Alisyn Camerata, who I have always liked, but she's on another network, this is her argument about the current crisis now and why what we are seeing is a sign that everything's working, we don't need a wall.  Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Shutting down the border worked, and it also proves that we don't need -- I think -- a border wall because the migrants made -- went out of their way to go to the Tijuana entrance because the rest of the border was considered too hazardous, too dangerous to cross.  So they went extra hundreds of miles to the port of entry of Tijuana because they considered that the easiest. So in other words, the system is actually working.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Did some reporter -- was there a reporter and a control room whispering "say this"? She can't actually believe that.

ARTHUR: The reason why the rest of the border is so dangerous is because it is so controlled by the drug cartels. And the drug cartels are getting their funding from exactly the same smugglers who are smuggling these individuals to the United States. We are supporting the drug cartels by allowing these individuals to be smuggled into our --

INGRAHAM: We just said the other sectors are being overwhelmed as we speak right now.

ARTHUR: Absolutely.

INGRAHAM: Every day of the week. So it's a sign it's working.

I have to play one more thing. Tearjerker, tearjerker moments. Rick Wilson another network tonight. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK WILSON: This is not just the terrible threat of a little shoeless girl wearing a Hello Kitty backpack at the border. Oh, my God, whip out the teargas. But it's done deliberately and methodically and cruelly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: So Trump is doing this cruelly, focusing on the little girl with the Hello Kitty backpack.

ARTHUR: Border Patrol agents are getting rocked along the border. I have been in a Border Patrol vehicle that got hit by cinder block, and I can tell you right now, Laura, it's the sort of thing that you really want to have a strong response to. We need to have a strong response so we can make sure that are agents are safe. And that's what the president's is attempting to do.

INGRAHAM: You agree with me Congress has to act? The asylum loopholes have to be --

ARTHUR: And I have been saying that for a year, saying that for more than a year.

INGRAHAM: And if they don't do that, we're going to have more of this?

ARTHUR: Absolutely.

INGRAHAM: All right, Art, thanks so much.

And what is going on with the Mueller investigation? We haven't talked about that in a few weeks. A significant development involving a rejected plea deal earlier today may tell us a lot. All the answers you need are straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: Some big developments in the Miller investigation tonight, including a plea deal gone awry and another that may have been violated.  For details, we are joined by FOX's Trace Gallagher. What would we do without a Trace? That's what I say. Has anyone ever used that before, Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Nobody has. But I don't know what you'd do, Laura.

But breaking tonight, we should note Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team has now submitted new court filings claiming forward Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort violated his plea agreement by lying to prosecutors and the FBI.

Now, the special counsel didn't say what he lied about, only that he did so on a, quote, variety of subject matters. Manafort denies he lied. He was convicted in August on eight counts of bank and tax fraud. In September he agreed to cooperate with Mueller to avoid a second trial and for a possible reduced prison sentence. The government now wants Manafort sentenced immediately.

Meantime ex-Trump campaign advisor George Papadopoulos reported to a medium security prison today in Wisconsin to begin serving his 14 day sentence for lying to the FBI about his interactions with Russian contacts.  Papadopoulos claims in April of 2016 he was in the U.K. and was told by a professor with ties to Russia that the Russians had obtained thousands of Hillary Clinton emails. Remember, this was months before hacked emails from Clinton campaign chair John Podesta were posted on WikiLeaks. Then in August of 2016, Papadopoulos told an Australian diplomat the Russians had derogatory information on Hillary Clinton. The diplomat reportedly pass that info onto western intelligence. Papadopoulos now believes he was set up and is willing to testify before the Senate Intel Committee.

And now Jerome Corsi, an associate of Trump confidante Roger Stone, says he is rejecting a plea deal from Robert Mueller's team. The special cause reportedly has evidence showing two months before John Podesta's hacked emails went public, Jerome Corsi knew WikiLeaks had them. And Mueller's team is examining whether Corsi passed that information along to Roger Stone. But Corsi says he did not have inside information from WikiLeaks.  Instead he, quote, connected the dots, saying two months before the Podesta emails went public he logically deducted the Julian Assange had them.  Mueller's investigators apparently not buying it. Laura?

INGRAHAM: Trace, thanks so much.

And joining me now is Sol Wisenberg, former deputy independent counsel in the Whitewater, Lewinsky investigation. Sol, we haven't seen you for a while, so I'm so excited to have you want. But why are you not hear? You are there. What does this tell you that Mueller is focusing so much of his effort now on someone like old Jerome Corsi. He is in his 70s. He's done a lot of writing, colorful writing, interesting writing. A lot of people really like his stuff. Is he grasping at straws here? What is this?

SOLOMON WISENBERG, PARTNER, NELSON-MULLINS: Well, from the very beginning of his tenure, Mueller has taken the position that if you lie to us, and obviously it's his view as to whether or not they lied, but if you lie to us, we are going to prosecute you. And that's really something that a lot of aggressive special counsels have done. Patrick Fitzgerald did it in the Scooter Libby case.

And the reason they do this is they are here for a limited time. They know they're going to get criticized publicly, like they all are, like Starr was, like Archie Cox, and like Mueller has been. And so they want to strike terror into the hearts of the people that they deal with and they question. And Mueller has been very consistent in this regard, if you lie to us, we will charge you. So I don't know --

INGRAHAM: Hold on, Sol. This is what prosecutors -- and I am speaking as an old defense counsel, but prosecutors have a big weapon in their arsenal.  And the weapon is you talk to us. If you don't, we are turning the screws.  We are going to turn them and turn them and turn them, and it's going to be so painful that you're going to say something.

And I am not saying all prosecutors are bad. I am not saying that. But I want to play when Jerome Corsi said about this, because he's not willing to take a plea deal. He said I'm not going to lie, basically, to take some lousy plea deal. If I have to die in jail, I will. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME CORSI: The American people have got to understand we have a criminal Department of Justice. And they are taking citizens. I've never committed a crime in my life. I am 72 years old. I can die in prison, but I will not lie to say I didn't tell the truth to the special counsel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Honestly, I believe him. I don't know. Just like you know you just have a certain radar about people and things. I don't know.

WISENBERG: Let me tell you a little secret. Let me tell you a little secret about Jerome Corsi and about Papadopoulos. Neither of these guys had to talk to Mueller at all. Mueller couldn't have turned any screws on either one of these guys. They could have said, guess what, we decline to talk to you, and if Mueller had called them to the grand jury, they could have said, guess what, we are not -- we are going to plead the Fifth Amendment, because these guys were not like major players than drug administration who might be embarrassed if it came out that they took the Fifth Amendment. So these guys, I don't know what their problem is, why they felt like they had to talk to the government in the first place.

INGRAHAM: They were corroborating. Sol, they don't have anything to hide.  Maybe it was stupid. Maybe you're saying it is stupid. Shouldn't talk to Mueller. They get Andrew Weissmann, Mr. Legal Eagle, and all the other people in there who hate Trump. So I get it. I wouldn't have advised my client to talk to them. But I think they feel like, Jerome Corsi, I didn't do anything. I am a journalist writing stuff, and I didn't do anything.  But again, you can indict a ham sandwich.

WISENBERG: You can. And the bottom line, as you know, we don't know if they had anything to hide or not. But I'll tell you one thing about Corsi, he was apparently trying to work on some kind of deal where he would not plead to intentionally lying. Really, the only way you can be successfully plead guilty to a crime of a false statement is if you did it intentionally. If you didn't do it intentionally, he shouldn't plead guilty.

INGRAHAM: All right, so Dershowitz now, Dershowitz has been reviled by the left or defending Trump. All the invitations to the parties dried up at Martha's Vineyard. Apparently, nobody would come to his party.

WISENBERG: So sad.

INGRAHAM: The Martha's Vineyard crowd just turned the cold shoulder. I was very distressed by it for him, actually.

WISENBERG: They haven't invited me to any of their parties either. They shut me out, too.

INGRAHAM: Sol, what people don't know about you is you are so much fun.

WISENBERG: That's right.

INGRAHAM: So the fact that they didn't -- it's very upsetting to me that you wouldn't be invited. But this is what he said yesterday that set the internet on fire. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, HARVARD LAW PROFESSOR EMERITUS: And I think the report is going to be devastating to the president, and I know that the president's team is already working on a response to the report.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: So does he get a leak from Mueller, or is it just rank speculation?

WISENBERG: I think it's rank speculation. On the other hand, it's pretty clear that there is no love lost between Mueller's prosecutors and the president and his people. And so it wouldn't be surprising to me if a report is hard-hitting.

Here is a key thing people haven't focused on yet. Granted, it's only been a couple hours since Mueller made his filing about Manafort, saying that Manafort lied and committed new crimes. Mueller said, let's proceed to sentencing, and Manafort's attorney agrees with him, and Mueller said, we're going to be filing something, judge, we're going to be filing a sentencing memo with you that details, and I'm quoting Mueller here, that details all of the various lies and crimes that Manafort has committed.

So I think Mueller will take this opportunity. He is very limited in what he can say, unless he is doing it in a court filing. So I think you're going to see a document from Mueller in the Manafort case that won't be a speaking indictment. It will be a speaking sentencing memo.

INGRAHAM: But a lot of this stuff has stuff to do with his old business dealings going back several years, predating the campaign. I don't know about that.

WISENBERG: Right, but Laura -- you are right, but I don't think that's what they're they have been asking him about, and I don't think that's what they are going to say he's been fibbing about. And who knows whether he is or not. Another interesting thing, Mueller does not have the power to say you lied and the deal is off. The court will make that decision, and that's an important distinction.

INGRAHAM: Sol, it's good to see you back. We have missed you terribly.

WISENBERG: Great to be back.

INGRAHAM: All right, you take care. Have a good night.

WISENBERG: Great to be back.

INGRAHAM: Among the potential list of 2020 Trump challengers includes some hilarious sideshows. Schlapp and Hahn debate the never-ending parade of also-rans, even some from the right. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: Now, if you can believe it, the race for 2020, I cannot believe I am already saying this, is already off and running. And the latest batch of contenders, well, may not have the president's sweating too much. From the right corner, we have two contenders who don't have much of a constituency in their party but still think they can challenge the president for the nomination. First, we have Jeff, always a Flake. His approval among Republican voters in his own state was a whopping 20 percent, forcing him into early retirement. Still, he recently told "Politico" that he has not ruled out a run for the presidency.

And then there is old John Kasich, the man who seemingly lives in an MSNBC greenroom. Great food there. And he didn't even show up at his own party's presidential convention when it was held in his state where he was governor. But he thinks he can challenge Trump and is very seriously considering it.

From the left, Robert Francis O'Rourke, the darling of the Democratic Party, couldn't win his Senate race in Texas but he is now saying a presidential run could be in the cards.

And then there is Mr. Impeachment himself, Tom Steyer. Seeing Trump's success, he thinks basically any billionaire can run for president.  Bloomberg is going to do it. Last week, Steyer released his five rights for Americans that looked an awful like a presidential platform.

Here to debate whether any of these challengers should keep the president up at night, Matt Schlapp, chairman of the American Conservative Union, and Chris Hahn, radio host and former aide to Chuck Schumer. All right, Matt, should the president be worried? When I think of John Kasich versus Trump, I get palpitations. It's so exciting, first of all, as a thought of a debate between the two of them.

MATT SCHLAPP, CONTRIBUTOR, THE HILL: Maybe John Kasich could actually keep it close in Ohio, at least. That would really be a good step for him.

Usually for Republican presidents, if they face a primary challenge, it is toast in November. I think with President Trump it's exactly the opposite.  I actually think if he is a guy like Flake, I assume Flake runs as a Republican, I'm not sure, Flake or Kasich runs in the primary, I think it emboldens him. He likes a foil. It will make him stronger and better.  And as far as all these Democrats are concerned, the fact that it's so big with so many interesting characters, I actually think it plays to his advantage as well.

INGRAHAM: Chris, first of all, I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving. Nice to see you.

CHRIS HAHN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I did. I did.

INGRAHAM: Did you cook? Are you one of those progressive men and you cook and you wear the apron and all that?

HAHN: I don't wear an apron, but I did cook. But the butcher did most of the work brining the turkey.

INGRAHAM: Very cool. I'm totally kidding. I love all -- cooking is a family affair.

Beto O'Rourke now, he's a contender. His wife said a pleasant thought, but she's leaving open the possibility of being OK with it. Newsweek actually had an article today, Chris, the title of which was Beto O'Rourke -- If Beto O'Rourke was president, here's how he would handle the migrant caravan. That's the title of a Newsweek w-e-a-k piece.

SCHLAPP: I thought there wasn't a caravan.

INGRAHAM: Thoughts, thoughts, Chris?

HAHN: I remember laughing very hard when a guy named Donald Trump got into the race, saying he'll never win the nomination, and if he wins the nomination, the Democrats will win 40 states. So be careful what you wish for. Beto O'Rourke, if he closes the gap the way he did in Texas and increases that margin in other states, he will get over 300 electoral votes easily, and maybe even closer to 340. He is an inspiring guy, and we will see what happens. There's going to be a large field. There was a large field --

INGRAHAM: Why is he inspiring? Wait a second. OK, Obama did better than he did in rural Texas, if my memory serves me correct. And why is he inspiring? He's cute, but why is he inspiring? What's inspiring about him?

HAHN: The guy reminded me a lot of Donald Trump. He was always trailing the poles, but yet everywhere he went, thousands of people showed up to see him. There is something there, and I think if the guy runs for president, he's going to be a serious contender. I don't know that he'll be the nominee, but he will absolutely be a serious contender in the Democratic primary. And a big field didn't hurt the Republicans in 2016, it won't hurt Democrats in 2020. And frankly, if I was a Republican, I would throw my name out there just in case the president decides he doesn't want to run or doesn't run for other reasons.

INGRAHAM: For the speaking fees alone, you'd throw your name into the hat, right, Schlapp?

SCHLAPP: Totally. I agree with Chris. I think the big field is not a bad thing.

INGRAHAM: No, I don't think it matters. It doesn't matter.

SCHLAPP: Because they don't really have an obvious top tier candidate.  It's a big smorgasbord. And they need to have one of their big leftwing blowout arguments and figure out who's going to come out of it.

INGRAHAM: But John Kasich, he just keeps showing up. It's like a bad toothache that just keeps coming back.

SCHLAPP: The thing with John Kasich --

INGRAHAM: One word.

SCHLAPP: Not going to win. Never Kasich.

INGRAHAM: Never Kasich. Guys, thanks so much. Tonight's last bite takes you to the NFL. Stay there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: It's time for the last bite.

If you've ever watched a Bill Belichick press conference, this from Denver Broncos linebacker Von Miller will ring true.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VON MILLER, DENVER BRONCOS LINEBACKER: It was a great team win. On to Cincinnati. We played great defense. We played great offense, great team win. So on to Cincinnati.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you channeling Bill Belichick?

MILLER: We had a great win today. Great team win. I'm sure we had an incredible day, but it's on to Cincinnati.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: That's what they look like, you know, when they win. Isn't that great? I love his glasses too.

All right. That's all the time we have tonight. Ed Henry is in for Shannon Bream and he takes it from here. Ed, it's on to Cincinnati.

Content and Programming Copyright 2018 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2018 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.