Were mailed pipe bombs designed to explode?

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Were mailed pipe bombs designed to explode?

How sophisticated were the devices mailed to prominent Democrats? Insight on 'The Ingraham Angle' from Rep. Rick Crawford, a former U.S. Army explosive ordnance disposal technician, and Jimmie Oxley, professor and explosives expert.

This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," October 24, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

LAURA INGRAHAM, HOST: I'm Laura Ingraham. This is "The Ingraham Angle" from Washington and this is a Fox News alert.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Those engaged in the political arena must stop treating political opponents as being morally defective. You have to do that. The language of moral condemnation and destructive routine, these are arguments and disagreements that have to stop. No one should carelessly compare political opponents to historical villains, which is done often, and it's done all the time. It's got to stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: That was President Trump earlier tonight addressing the news of explosive devices sent to the homes or offices of Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Eric Holder, George Soros and Maxine Waters, and one that was addressed to John Brennan but ended up somehow at CNN.

Now, we still don't know anything about who is behind these undetonated bombs or what their possible motives could be? But of course that didn't stop the media from cracking the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you look at who they targeted so far, it's almost like they are following Donald Trump's twitter feed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, we are in an era now where violence seems to have a license by the president of the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the president certainly has encouraged this kind of rhetoric.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is what happens when the president calls you the enemy of the people. Why did CNN get the bomb?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fox news hasn't gotten a bomb yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: It sounds almost like wish casting there, Sunny. Well, look, this might be politically motivated. After all, only Democrats received the packages. But let's not go pointing fingers until we have all the details. Now what exactly do we know tonight? We thought we would go actually to people who report and who know something. Fox News chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge is here. Catherine, where are we at this hour?

CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Well, thanks Laura. Within the lat hour the FBI confirming two more packages, both addressed to Congresswoman Maxine Waters bringing the total tonight to seven. Earlier today, FBI Director Christopher Wray issued this statement asking for the public's help saying, no piece of information is too small and warning that more packages may be out there.

Director Wray said each package used the large Manila envelope with bubble wrap, six forever stamps with the same return address using the wrong spelling for Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz as well as computer printed address labels.

A former federal investigator tells Fox that such printers can embed identification codes into the actual print that can link the packages and in some cases trace the printer. As you mentioned, the first package to billionaire and Democrat donor George Soros arrived on Monday followed by former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, former president Barack Obama, former CIA director John Brennan that was delivered to CNN, and former Attorney General Eric Holder.

The Secret Service confirmed its routine mail screening intercepted both of the packages and they are working directly tonight with the FBI, ATF and the postal inspectors as part of the JTTF, that's the Joint Terrorism Task Force. In his first public comment after the bomb scare, Brennan told an audience in Texas that President Trump was to blame for the political climate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BRENNAN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Trump too often has help to incite some of these feelings of anger, if not violence, when he points to acts of violence or also talks about, you know, swinging at somebody from the press.

(END VIDEO CLIP

HERRIDEG: And Brennan said he hoped the president's statement condemning the pipe bombs marked a turning point. It's important to note that no suspect, no motive or political agenda has been publicly linked by the FBI to these devices, Laura.

INGRAHAM: Catherine, the work of the Secret Service at the Clinton's home in Chappaqua, that was critical in this case, was it not?

HERRIDGE: What has happened, so in the post 9/11 world, is that they have these off-site screening facilities and in the case of Hillary Clinton and also Barack Obama, they intercepted the packages before they even got to the home. So nobody -- the intended recipient never touched anything that was dangerous.

INGRAHAM: And they have already concluded this is obviously all sent by the same person or a group of people who are responsible.

HERRIDGE: All the devices and the packaging have the same hallmarks and they are investigating it. The working theory is that it was a single individual or a single group.

INGRAHAM: Catherine, thank you so much for coming in tonight.

And so how sophisticated where these devices and why didn't any of them actually detonate? We wanted to speak to some experts on the subject and Jimmie Oxley is a professor and explosive expert. She aided in the investigations in the '93 World Trade Center bombing and the 2005 London bombings.

And Republican Rick Crawford is a member of the House Intel Committee and previously served as an explosive ordnance disposal technician for the four years he was in the U.S. Army. Thank you both for being here. Jimmie, I want to start with you. Having seen the pictures of these devices, how operational do they appear?

JIMMIE OXLEY, EXPLOSIVES EXPERT: Well, what we have seen is some x-rays and they looked like they would be operational. It is typical for EOD, Explosive Ordinance Disposal to be able to x-ray packages. They do that first to ensure that there is a device if you have a suspicious package. And then to take a look at where the initiations system is and how it works. In this case we are told there's a digital clock as part of the device.

INGRAHAM: And I want to go to you Congressman Crawford. Bob Baer, former CIA operative was on CNN tonight. And he made a comment about the device. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: They probably weren't meant to go off, the worst kind of bomb you could send in the mail is a pipe bomb, they are easily discoverable, people are going to pick them up. They make no, you know, hand addressed in the rest of it. It makes no sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Do you agree with his analysis?

REP. RICK CRAWFORD, R-ARK.: Absolutely. I think it was probably designed to get attention. It was designed to be caught. And while it maybe a device that could function I think it was designed more than anything to strike fear in the hearts of those people who they were intended to target, not necessarily to kill them.

INGRAHAM: Professor, back to you. Tracing the individual, they believe an individual as Catherine Herridge said, is responsible for this one individual. Tracing the material back to that individual, it was so hard in the case of the Unabomber, huge damage obviously, horrific damage done at his hands. It took years and years. Why might this be different?

OXLEY: The Unabomber took years and years because his bombings were spread out over years and he actually had a hiatus from bombing for a number of years, if you remember that case. He was quite an experimentalist and tried different signatures. This particular person or group has already been linked, to seven bombs in three days.

And the post office has a lot better tracking facilities. Let's face it, if these were caught before they got to the intended victims partly because the post office has certain precautions in place. Now they can trace it back to an area and start looking where the components, whether they be chemical components or physical components like the pipe itself, where those were purchased.

INGRAHAM: And Congressman, it was reported earlier today that the post office wasn't used, that there was a courier used at the CNN drop for this particular envelope. So, the post office wasn't, you know, the stamps weren't marked, they weren't actually stamped. Does that make it more difficult or less difficult? Same thing with the Soros mailbox, however, they left it Soros, apparently maybe in --

CRAWFORD: You might necessarily.

INGRAHAM: -- so if it wasn't the post office, security cameras and then the actual individual materials?

CRAWFORD: Yes, I think what you have is, you know, security protocols anytime you have, you know, any kind of commercial operation like CNN. They are going to have a high security, rigid security protocols. Certainly somebody a high profile individual like George Soros would have security protocols that would catch that kind of thing.

But, the other thing, you know, the comparison about the Unabomber and how long that took, the digital footprint is so much more pronounced today than it was when the Unabomber was active and so not only that. In this post 9/11 era, our bomb techs have gotten so much better in the technical exploitation of intelligence.

And so we have seen over the last several years, almost two decades now that we have been engaged encounter I.D. Operation, our sophistication as bomb techs has improved dramatically, so that we can go and attack the network quickly and identify those perpetrators, cut off their supply and be able to bring them to justice in a much more expeditious manner. And so, I think you will see this resolved much, much quicker than you would have in an incident like, for example the Unabomber

INGRAHAM: Now, professor, if you were profiling this case, what do you think the hallmarks are here, of who might be behind this? Given the way this device was assembled and of the targets that obviously were chosen?

OXLEY: Well that's not really my expertise to talk about profiling, but usually bombs are by somebody that is either disgruntled, evil or just plain crazy. It's hard to say what combination this is. I'm sure there's much speculation on that point. But as I said that's --

INGRAHAM: Congressman -- sorry -- Congressman, remember the House Intel Committee? Obviously members of Congress are taking this very seriously. The White House near immediate condemnation. Your sense from the House Intel Committee perspective tonight?

CRAWFORD: Well, you know, immediately I agree, you know, condemnation on this -- this is a condemnable act regardless of who the perpetrator is. The good news is the resources we have available to go after the perpetrator or perpetrators as the case may be, and that we have a huge database.

And I will say this, as a former bomb tech, I know what the reporting protocols are and I know that the FBI has great expertise and the intelligence committee has great expertise in being able to go after and exploiting that intelligence and find out who these people are.

There is a big digital footprint here that they might not even be aware of. But I can tell you this, if these experts are aware of it and they will find the perpetrator very quickly and I think we'll be surprised to see how quickly they are brought to justice in a case like this.

INGRAHAM: Good. Fantastic. Thank you both for joining us tonight, We really appreciate it. I want to bring in former secret service agent Dan Bonggino. Dan, thanks for being here. How does the agency address the threats like these and how much a part of the investigatory process will they be going forward?

DAN BONGINO, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT:  Well, this is interesting, Laura. The Secret Service has an MOU, a memorandum of understanding with the FBI. When an attack or an attempted attack like this actually happens, and it's for obvious reasons. If an attack like this happens, the Secret Service typically doesn't conduct the investigation. What they do is they'll secure the crime scene, in this case, the mail facility and the FBI will come in and do the investigation.

The reason being, you don't want the Secret Service investigating and (inaudible) potential hole in their security plan, which by the way there was not in this case. The Secret Service did everything by the numbers. They did a fantastic job. They acted wonderfully in this case, but the FBI will take over from this point. They just secure the crime scene, the Secret Service. One more thing Laura, they will be kept informed obviously about the status of the investigation, in case there is an ongoing threat.

INGRAHAM: Dan, we had ricin attacks back in December I believe. Mattis and chief of naval operations both received. You've had threats. , you know, we got that powder going to the Trump kids, even here at Fox some years ago including myself was, you know, we received these envelopes with harmless powder in the mail but it's meant to scare you, it's meant to frighten you. The fact that this has become political this fast, and I will play something that Hillary Clinton said earlier today for you and get your reaction. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a time of deep divisions, and we have to do everything we can to bring our country together. We also have to elect candidates who will try to do the same.

You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about.

(NED VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Yes. I thought it's a flashback at the end to what you said recently about, you know, can't be civil with certain people. So the fingers pointing at Trump all day long on the other networks, which I found disgusting, continue through the night, yet we had Holder, you know, "kick 'em," Hillary, Booker, Maxine Waters, all the different points in time --

And Joe Biden of course, you know, take him behind the barn or whatever he said years ago. I mean, it's rough-and-tumble world of politics. But the idea that this is now they are tagging Donald Trump with this, Jeff Zucker is (inaudible) obviously his network involved today with the, you know, with the envelope going there. It's horrible. But Jeff Zucker, really? That's where you want to go for now?

BONGINO: Yes, it's gross. It's disgusting. Matter of fact I remember doing commentary on this network during the really horrific shooting in the baseball field. Every commentator on this network going out of their way to make sure, me included by the way, even on my own show, that the person who did that, Bernie Sanders, although he was a supporter, had no responsibility for that whatsoever, none. That person was responsible for their own actions.

And yet, in an incident like today, Laura, let's be clear. We have no evidence whatsoever about who this person was yet that's been released publicly. I'm sure the FBI is working on it. None that indicate a motive. Zero. And yet we have irresponsible gross coverage out there, people jumping to conclusions, claiming they have some kind of inside information about a motive and some kind of link to Donald Trump.

I mean, this is really grotesque. There is no place for this. And that clip you played on Hillary sums it all up. Just a week ago she was talking about uncivil treatment of Republicans being almost mandatory, and now all of a sudden she's the peacemaker?

We just had one of her advisors on the network yesterday, defending, confronting in some cases aggressively, Republicans out in public places. I mean listen, there is no place for violence and politics. Period. Full Stop. Nothing further needed. But there is a place in politics to call out frauds. And if you haven't been on that side of non-violent, an event you need the entire time. Don't jump in the game now and try to blame it on Donald Trump.

INGRAHAM: After the president came out and condemned obviously these horrible, you know, bomb attacks -- would be bomb attack -- CNN had a panel, various people came out. It was not enough for them, you will be surprised to hear, I'm sure, Dan. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought it was the absolute bare minimum that the American people could expect from the president to say, given the circumstances.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What leaves me wanting, like Carrie, is you find yourself saying, I just wish he could have said some other things.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it would have behooved him to be a little bit more complete.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me think about this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Your reaction Dan.

BONGINO: A little more complete? What else does she want? Does she want him to call for the guillotine? He couldn't have been more -- the full force, the full extent of the United States government will be dedicated to bring these people to justice, what else do they want? The president can do no right, Laura, in their eyes.

There is nothing he can say and nothing he can do to get in their eyes, to get him right with them on the left. And you know, they all insulate each other, they speak to themselves in a bubble. See, we don't have that luxury here on this network. You say anything evenly remotely out of the media narrative, you are on twitter all day with these attack sites on this network. Yet over there, they get away with whatever they want, they say whatever they want even though they have absolutely no evidence, zero what the motive was in this case.

INGRAHAM: Dan, you know what else they are doing which I saw all throughout the day? They are trying to tie these horrific bomb letters to the overall conservative populist ideology. So in other words, during the closing weeks of the campaign, now they don't really think Donald Trump should be aggressive campaigning and Jake Gafford (ph) kind of spoke to this about the criticism of Waters and John Brennan. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, with the exception of the violence part of it, I don't know that it's just the far right. I think it's just a lot of Republicans. We hear Republicans on Capitol Hill, congressman talking about Soros, talking about John Brennan as he should be the focus. It's not just the fringe anymore. This is now mainstream Republican thought.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: So you can't talk about George Soros or you are basically, you know, in some way kind of responsible for this atmosphere.

BONGINO: Laura, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of conservative ideology by people who don't understand it. We believe in (inaudible) god- given rights, God-given rights. Not state sanctions rights. They may protect your rights but these are right created by God for everyone.

Liberals, conservatives and even communists, God-given rights. That's a fundamental misunderstanding in a very irresponsible comment by a guy who should know better. He's usually a little more fair than that. That is an outrageous comment. There is nobody I know that would be -- you would be kicked off this network immediately and you and I both know it if you got off the air, out on the air advocating violence. That is nonsense.

INGRAHAM: And by the way, remember in 2012, the Democrats couldn't stop talking about the Koch brothers. Remember old Harry Reid on the Senate floor. I mean, they picked their targets to vilify and it's OK when they are doing it and they are winning, but when Republicans are starting to make a political comeback, you know, you can't talk about these issues anymore. This is crazy.

BONGINO: Yes. Mitt Romney didn't pay his taxes, remember? (Inaudible) He says, well we won, didn't we. I mean, that's their morals right there.

INGRAHAM: Yes, bingo. Dan, thank you so much. And coming up, the flameout of the Democrats newest stars, that's the focus of tonight's "Angle" when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)  INGRAHAM: The flameout of the Democrats newest stars, that's the focus of tonight's "Angle." Over the last few months, the media have anointed liberals like Florida gubernatorial candidate Andrew Gillum, Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacy Abrams and Texas senatorial candidate Beto O'Rourke as Democratic superstars to watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the read down there on the (inaudible) of this race. I mean, Abrams is a star in the Democratic Party.

CHUCK TODD, MSNBC HOST: Gillum brings something. He brings energy, brings passion. He is a star.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And some of these candidates, like Beto and Gillum, is that not only do you get the star power, you get the youth.

BETO O'ROURKE, TEXAS SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I love you too. Thank you all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're a rockstar.

O'ROURKE: No, no. It's just so many great people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you really are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: In these final weeks of campaigning, we are learning more about all three candidates that should give all the voters in their respective states reason to question the nonstop hype. Let's start with Andrew Gillum. Text messages reveal that the Tallahassee mayor accepted a hotel room, tours and tickets to the Broadway show "Hamilton" from real estate developers without ever disclosing the gifts.

Only those developers were undercover FBI agents and the developers had been in touch with Mayor Gillum about a real estate project in Tallahassee. His opponent Ron DeSantis, Republican, confronted him with all of this at their debate on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RON DESANTIS, R-FLA., REPUBLICAN GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: The question is, did you pay for the "Hamilton" ticket or did the undercover FBI agent pay for the "Hamilton" ticket?

ANDREW GILLUM, DEMOCRATIC GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE, FLORIDA: I'm a hardworking person. I know that may not fit your description of what you think people like me do, but I work hard for everything that I've gotten in my life and I don't need anybody handing me anything for free.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Well, Gillum tried a different answer with Chuck Todd yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GILLUM: What Florida voters need to do about me is that for 15 years, I've served honorably, respectively, and have served my community without so much as a stain on my record or on my name.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Whatever his (inaudible) he's spinning and badly. And text messages just released by Gillum's lobbyist friend, he's told clearly on August 10th of 2016th that Mike Miller, the undercover FBI agent, and the crew have tickets for us for "Hamilton" tonight at 8:00 p.m. Awesome news, Gillum texted in response.

Now whether his brother gave him a ticket or not, he knew the source of the ticket. A supposed developer who needed his help. Now, this is why the state of Florida's Ethics Commission is investigating Gillum. The probe remains open and the Democrats Florida star seems to be falling. Tonight at his second and last debate against DeSantis, Gillum was pressed on the issue and things got hot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DESANTIS: He wants you to believe that he's not under investigation. Why would an undercover FBI agent posing as a contractor give him $1,000 ticket to "Hamilton?"

GILLUM: But I take responsibility for not having asked more questions. But let me tell you, I'm running for governor and the state of Florida we got a lot of issues, in fact we got 99 issues and "Hamilton" ain't one of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Nice try, Andy, but I would like to have been in the room where it happened. Now, I suggest that Gillum moves to San Francisco where his views and his style of politics would fit perfectly. Now let's move onto the governor's race in Georgia where this video footage of gubernatorial candidate Stacy Abrams surfaced.

Now, it shows her and others on the steps of the Georgia capital burning the state flag in protest. It was 1992. Now, Abrams sought to explain her flag torching this way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STACY ABRAMS, DEMOCRATIC GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE, GEORGIA: Twenty-six years ago as a college freshman, I along with many other Georgians including the governor of Georgia were deeply disturbed by the racial divisiveness that was embedded in that state flag with the confederate symbol.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Now, that maybe be true, but the governor of Georgia at the time did not set the flag on fire on the capitol steps. He worked through the legislature to amend the flag, change it and remove the confederate symbol that people found offensive. So, does a candidate for governor consider it right to simply destroy public images or symbols that individuals find offensive, some individuals? That's a question that the people of Georgia will have to answer.

And then, there is super Beto. Yes, some street artist has tried to depict O'Rourke, whose real name is Robert Francis, as some sort of super hero but his actions belie the designation. Back in 1998 when this Texas senatorial candidate was 26, he was drinking under the influence driving and he struck another car and attempted to flee the accident. Well, since then, he tried to soft pedaled the arrest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETO O'ROURKE, DEMOCRATIC SENATORIA CANDIDTE, TEXAS: I did not try to leave the scene of the accident though driving drunk, which I did, is a terrible mistake for which there is no excuse or justification or defense and I will not try to provide one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Well, you should also not try to excuse yourself from attempting to leave the scene of an accident, when that was clearly your intention. Now, as the arresting officer rode in a police report at the time, "the driver attempted to leave the accident, but was stopped by the witness." Nice try, superman. And I haven't even mentioned Beto's 1995 burglary charges for breaking into the University of Texas at El Paso, or this heinous commercial.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

INGRAHAM: OK, more like leader of the hacks. As voters head to the polls, it would serve them well to see through the liberal media pixie dust about all of the so-called Democrat superstars. Who these people really are, well, check it out. And more importantly, what they believe in. Open borders, higher taxes, government run health care, gun-control, and more regulations on business.

Also remember, that when you look at stars, you're actually seeing the light reflected from a star that has actually already burned out. Kind of like what the economy would be like if these three get into power. And that is "the angle."

Visitors to the Magic Kingdom are leaving something behind that has Disney pretty upset. Raymond Arroyo has the gory details in our "Seen and Unseen" segment, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: It's now time for our "Seen and Unseen" segment where we explore some of the big cultural stories of the day.

On the docket tonight, new ghosts, thieves and sinners. It seems appropriate one week from following. Joining us with more, Raymond Arroyo, FOX News contributor, "New York Times" bestselling author of the "Will Wilder" series. Raymond, let's get a start with the ghoulish revelation out of the happiest place on earth. What's going on?

RAYMOND ARROYO, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. They have something called a Code V. That's when a visitor to Disneyworld vomits. The have a Code U which is when someone urinates. There's another code. It's called the HEPA cleanup, and that's when they use the HEPA filter on the vacuum cleaner to pick up human remains. People scattering ashes in the magic kingdom. A new "Wall Street Journal" story, apparently this is a trend, Laura. And they talked to a woman who dropped her father on Main Street and her brother in Epcot. Thank goodness nobody like the animal kingdom or the other parks.

INGRAHAM: What?

ARROYO: Can you imagine? I realize they want to keep the memories alive.  It's a place of happiness where you were with whole family. But do you really want your relatives spending all eternity with the crowds and the heat, being stomped and the food dropped? Not where I'd want to be.

INGRAHAM: I'm just glad it's not one of those big chicken legs, turkey legs.

ARROYO: Now, where do you think in all places at Disneyland or Disneyworld is the most favorite spot to drop the remains of grandma?

INGRAHAM: OK.

(MUSIC)

ARROYO: The Haunted Mansion, Laura.

INGRAHAM: I love the Haunted Mansion. That's my favorite.

ARROYO: Of all places, there are extra ghosts being outed all the time apparently. Here's what they do. We've been on these rides where they will say, we are experiencing technical difficulties. You're ride will continue in a moment. You know what they are doing? They found a pile of ash remains, they stop the ride, vacuum it up, and then it continues.

INGRAHAM: No they don't.

ARROYO: That's what Wall Street Journal reported.

INGRAHAM: I want to see that story. I don't even believe this.

ARROYO: So now in addition to the bacteria on the rails and inside the rides, I now have to worry about human remains.

INGRAHAM: Raymond, it's your time to admit. How many times have you been to Disney pray tell?

ARROYO: Probably 40 something times.

INGRAHAM: You're kidding me. That's an illness.

ARROYO: I'm sorry, but here's what I feel. If you have a relative you love, don't drop them in the lagoon at the "Pirates of the Caribbean." When they sing, "Yoho, Yoho, a pirate's life for me," they didn't mean for all eternity. It's just for the ride.

INGRAHAM: I just want my ashes scattered over --

ARROYO: Granny and splash mountain is not part of the lyric.

INGRAHAM: The Pentagon maybe. All right, with the midterms around the corner, I guess the dirty tricks would be expected. You found one in the ninth district of Delaware? What is that?

ARROYO: Yes. This is a state rep, a Democratic state rep. Her name isn't Monique Johns. Now, the Republican who has the seat currently, Representative Kevin Hensley. We have video of this. Here's Hensley. He goes to the door. He puts his pamphlet in the door of one of the people in his district.

No sooner does Hensley step away then Monique Johns shows up. Now, she is the contender for this seat.

INGRAHAM: There she goes.

ARROYO: Here she comes. Watch what she does. She goes up, grabs the pamphlet, then says, I'm taking this one home, and puts her own in the doorway. In the age of ring, Laura, when every doorbell has a candid camera on it, it's best not to steal your opponent's paraphernalia. Just leave them there and put them side-by-side. Let the voters figure it out.

INGRAHAM: It's kind of like the UPS truck, those people who follow the RPS truck, the Amazon Prime, it's their prime choice for someone else's packages.

ARROYO: Do you remember that video from last week? It was a postal worker who dropped the posts off and he urinated on the front porch, and they caught it on camera. Don't do bad things on people's porches. Leave their porches alone.

INGRAHAM: This is frightening.

ARROYO: I have to tell you about this, some big news, serious news, Laura.  The attorneys general of D.C. and Virginia have opened up investigations into the clergy sex abuse crisis in the Catholic Church. Of course, it's a global phenomenon. As of tonight there are 14 states conducting active inquiries into this abuse. I recently sat down with Cardinal Gerhard Muller. He is the former head of the Vatican doctrinal office, the second most powerful man in Rome, responsible for prosecuting clergy abuse cases for the entire church. Muller was fired late last year by the Pope, which we discussed. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARROYO: He removed you according to reports because you were too tough, to insistent on tribunals and penalties for these priestly offenders. Is there any truth to that?

GERHARD LUDWIG MULLER, GERMAN CARDINAL OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH: He gave no explanation, but some of his friends around him, they attacked me to be a hardliner in this case. But I think it's the only possibility to react, the church must be very clear in favor of the victims and we must be hardliners.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARROYO: He was on the hardliner and was on the side of victims. According to reports the Pope and some of his friends stopped investigations of cardinals in England and elsewhere and rescinded penalties for priests found guilty of this. If you want to know why the sex abuse crisis is engulfing the church, this might be part of the reason, a failure to prosecute these offenders.

INGRAHAM: The Pope pulled him off duty.

ARROYO: Possibly, quite possibly.

INGRAHAM: It seems to me that's what he just told you.

ARROYO: It needs to be explored.

INGRAHAM: I like him, by the way.

ARROYO: I do, too.

INGRAHAM: I like him a lot.

ARROYO: I'm going to be back later, we're going to talk about mega millions and why you lost.

INGRAHAM: What?

(LAUGHTER)

INGRAHAM: Thank you, Raymond. Fresh off the Florida gubernatorial debate, Congressman Ron DeSantis is here next on his strategy to catch up. The polls are very tight, though, now, in Florida. And plus his reaction to the latest controversy surrounding his Democratic challenger Andrew Gillum and that "Hamilton" performance. Stay there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GILLUM: Immigration and border control has an important job to do, and we ought to empower them to do the job, which is why we propose moving the agency inside of the Department of Justice which obviously already oversees four agencies.

DESANTIS: Why would you allow your dislike for the president to knowingly put communities at risk?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Congressman DeSantis is looking for moments like that down the home stretch and he looks to make up what is now about a six-point deficit in the Real Clear Politics average versus his opponent, Tallahassee mayor and uber liberal Andrew Gillum. Joining me now with how he might do that is Florida Congressman, gubernatorial candidate, Ron DeSantis.  Congressman, thanks for being here. We invited Mayor Gillum on the program, but he politely declined. So how do close the gap in these polls at this point?

DESANTIS: I'm not worried about polls. I'm worried about votes. We've had a very good showing. We're turning out the voters we need to. We're going to continue to do it. My primary average when I won the primary was 15 points off, it was off for Gillum. So I definitely do not go by media polls. I go by our polling, our targeting, and everything is going in a good direction.

And I think the reason is because you have a candidate like Andrew, he's running on abolishing ICE. He said last debate he would not cooperate with ICE at all. And so, you know, if you have somebody who is criminally illegal, we want to get them out, you have to be able to do that.

He also is embroiled in this ethics scandal because he lied about it on Sunday night. He said that he pays for everything, has never gotten anything for free. Then documents come out two days later showing he got $1,000 ticket to "Hamilton," this play, from an undercover FBI agent posing as a contractor with business before the city. But also, the documents also showed he got $1,000 stay at a villa in Costa Rica with these lobbyists who are trying to get a contract through the city of Tallahassee.  And guess what, they helped arrange the "Hamilton," they helped to arrange the Costa Rica pay for, and then Andrew Gillum gives them a $2 million contract to build a restaurant in Tallahassee. That is the essence of corruption.

INGRAHAM: Yes. And "Hamilton," it's nice to have Washington on your side.  It's nice to have the real estate developer on your side, or it's nice to have Mayor Gillum on your side. Congress, Mayor Gillum responded tonight, saying this was all a distraction, ethical concerns, whether he lied, and it was last night actually. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GILLUM: The Republicans obviously want to distract. The goal is obviously to use my candidacy as a way to reinforce, frankly, stereotypes about black men. We are sick of racist attacks. We're sick of bigoted attacks. We're sick of divisive language and strategy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: OK, so that was his response. In other words, it's kind of all racially charged, maybe even racist.

DESANTIS: Laura, it's not about black or white. It's about right or wrong. And the fact of the matter is when you're taking gifts from an undercover FBI agent, that's wrong. When you are taking gifts from lobbyists, that's wrong. And it does violate Florida law. But then when you give them what they were looking for, this $2 million, that's the essence of the quid pro quo thing. And it's obviously wrong to lie about, and lie about it -- and he was indignant on Sunday night. He said, I'm a grown man, I pay for everything myself. Then it turns out he doesn't pay for very much that we've seen in these documents.

And so I think he realizes he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, he realizes he's been lying. And think about this, Laura. He still says, I have not been under FBI investigation. If he is not under investigation, why would an undercover agent be giving him $1,000 ticket to "Hamilton"?  Of course he is under investigation.

INGRAHAM: He took it up a notch tonight in the debate with you in responding to these same charges and the concern about getting free stuff from agents posing as this developer. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GILLUM: My grandfather used to say a hit dog will holler. And it hollered through this room. Mr. DeSantis has spoken. First of all, he has neo-Nazis helping him in the state. He has spoken at racist conferences.

I'm not calling Mr. DeSantis a racist. I'm simply saying the racists believe he's a racist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: That's an old trick, the left does that a lot. The communists believe he's a communist, you could play that game all day long. But he's made this a racial issue, so every time you raise a question about his is ethics, his brother is now under investigation, right, Marcus, for maybe voting illegally, clearly there is an FBI investigation ongoing. It's racist to mention that, so how are you to debate him if every inconvenient fact becomes a charge of racism, Congressman?

DESANTIS: I think what he's doing is turning off voters. The fact of the matter is, he's a career politician. He's been in office since he was 22, never had a job outside of politics. And he acts like one. He doesn't accept responsibility for anything. He always looks to pass the blame to somebody else. And so that's really what he's doing here. He's trying to divert away from the fact that he's running on a radical agenda that Floridians don't want, and he's embroiled in a corruption scandal that he's been lying about four months and has now got caught red-handed. So that's just the reality. And look, voters see right through what he's doing.

INGRAHAM: He made a big deal at the first debate, we're almost out of time, about you get support from the NRA. Doesn't he get support from Planned Parenthood and all these leftist groups that are responsible for the snuffing out of hundreds of thousands of lives every year?

DESANTIS: Exactly. And he says I will believe in science. Well, he doesn't believe in science when it comes to right to life, I'll tell you that.

INGRAHAM: Fantastic. And thanks so much, Congressman, for coming on tonight. Again, we did invite the mayor on. We wanted both of your perspectives, but he didn't get back to us, so we appreciate it.

And after President Trump said he was a proud nationalist, it suddenly became OK for his opponents to call him Hitler. Well, a professor who just so happens to be the foremost scholar on nationalism, who happens to be Jewish, is here to react, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I watched enough History Channel to know that they cheered at Hitler, too. Nationalism isn't divorced from the capacity to cheer at a crowd.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It reminds me of the kinds of words that came from people like Hitler who thought that in Germany he was a nationalist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Those slanderous comments leveled against President Trump after he dared say he was proud to be a nationalist. So what is nationalism?  What's it all about? Israeli philosopher Yoram Hazony, quorum has oni wrote recently, "it is a mistake to think of nationalism as an inherently regressive or destructive political force. In fact nationalism was the engine that established modern political liberty, and it has been a spur to diversity among nations." And Yoram, whose book, "The Virtue of Nationalism" came out last month joins me now. Thanks so much for being here, loved your piece. Given what we just read it, that you wrote, obviously, how do you react to the proponents of nationalism being linked to Adolf Hitler today?

YORAM HAZONY, PRESIDENT, THE HERZL INSTITUTE: It's despicable, obviously, and really a disgrace. I think the people who are appearing on those clips simply -- the best face that you can put on it is that they are just ignorant. They don't know the first thing about nationalism, and they might not know much about Adolf Hitler other than what they saw in a clip on the History Channel, as we heard. And with that they feel equipped to go out and to smear people who have nothing to do with Hitler with this kind of smear. They should be ashamed of themselves.

INGRAHAM: I don't know even how any of them are on television, frankly.  That is perpetuating a fraud upon the viewing public, and it is historically ignorant, completely out of place. The point about nationalism that President Trump actually made tonight again in Wisconsin, he said what he views as the globalist understanding is you put the interest of the global community ahead of your own peoples. That's what he's getting at, and that's what a lot of us saw happening over the last 20 plus years or so which led to the rise of China and other strife across the globe. Meanwhile, America got weaker, less powerful, less influential certainly under Obama.

HAZONY: I think President Trump is exactly right on this. The confrontation between globalists and nationalists is the great political issue of our age. And the truth is that every political leader should really be taking a stand. There's nothing more important than this question of how we are going to order the political world. And President Trump, he told us where he stands. Every one of us is going to have to take a side between globalists and nationalists eventually.

INGRAHAM: His point is that we live in the greatest country on the face of the earth. He wants to make it even greater, but what's wrong with that?  Remember when Obama said the Greeks believed in in Greek exceptionalism, the British believe in British exceptionalism, like it's all the same.  Reagan had a different view. This is the greatest nation. We are built on the ideal of freedom. And in 240 plus years, we became the global superpower, and we want to keep it that way. And that's what Trump wants.  He just doesn't want us to go down the tubes because we are spending money on stupid stuff.

HAZONY: I think that's what he wants. I'm also hearing him say something in addition, which is that he said repeatedly that he doesn't have any kind of animosity towards other nations. He's happy for other nations to see their own way of life and their way of thinking as the best and each one of them should look out for their own interest. Notice the decentralization that stands behind this whole way of looking at the world. This is a classical, nationalist, which says I can mean well and think well of all sorts of other countries. But each one of them has to be responsible for its own traditions to pursue things according to its own interest.

Compare that to the globalist side. The globalist side is the other side of Trump's dichotomy here, and that globalists, he's saying, these are people who look at the entire globe as though it's like a single political and economic entity. And because they look at it that way, they are unable to keep their eye on what's best and what's needed for their own nation.  And that is indeed a completely different way of looking at the political order with a totally different morality. I think he's completely right to draw our attention to this.

INGRAHAM: Absolutely. And Japan has its own way and Britain might have its own way, and that's OK. We can't lecture to the rest of the world about how they live their lives.

Yoram, thank you so much, loved your piece, and really appreciate your perspective on this tonight.

How did I react, by the way, to losing out on last night's mega millions?  You might be surprised, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

INGRAHAM: So there was a winner in last night's mega millions. I'm still here, obviously it wasn't I.

ARROYO: There are the winning numbers. Last night Laura has her tickets out. And she goes, now, wait a minute. I have 62, I have five. There's the ticket.

INGRAHAM: You don't see the numbers there.

ARROYO: And she's going through it. I said, Laura, this isn't bingo.

INGRAHAM: I had five at the end.

ARROYO: You have to get them in sequence, Laura, exact sequence.

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