This is a rush transcript from "Sunday Morning Futures," June 7, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Good Sunday morning, everyone. Welcome. I'm Maria Bartiromo. Great to have you.
Straight ahead right here on "Sunday Morning Futures": nationwide unrest this morning once again following a second week of protests over the death of George Floyd, from Minneapolis to Philadelphia, hundreds of thousands of people marching against racial injustice, with no signs of stopping.
Coming up: America's mayor is here, Rudy Giuliani, joining me with his message for New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio amid this chaos.
Plus, breaking news from the president's point man on trade and manufacturing, Peter Navarro just back from a trip to Maine with President Trump on firing up America's manufacturing base to create jobs.
We will hear from Arkansas Senator Tom Cotton on his calls to hold China accountable, as well as his controversial New York Times op-ed calling for a military response to the protests.
Also here, Senator Tim Scott and Trey Gowdy on how we can put society back together again, all this as Senator Lindsey Graham interviews his first witness this past week on the origins of the investigation into a sitting president. He will have breaking news on who his committee will subpoena next.
All that and a lot more right here, right now, as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."
And the U.S. economy looks to be on the rebound, after a better-than- expected May jobs report on Friday, the Dow industrials jumping some 800 points on Friday.
Joining me right now to assess where we are is the White House trade adviser, Peter Navarro.
Peter, it's always a pleasure to see you. Thank you so much for being here.
PETER NAVARRO, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF TRADE AND MANUFACTURING POLICY: Good morning, Maria. A beautiful day here in Washington.
BARTIROMO: We were all expecting another decline in jobs, loss in jobs in the month of May. In fact, we had 2.5 million jobs created. Has the recovery began, Peter?
NAVARRO: I think, as a macroeconomist, what I love to do is look at boots on the ground.
And what I saw on Friday in the great state of Maine was a recovery in full swing, at least away from our of urban areas, because there's really a tale of two cities going on here.
What I saw when we went up on Air Force One to a place called Guilford, Maine, where there's a company called Puritan. It's doing just an absolutely beautiful job for this country. With the help of the Defense Production Act, President Trump, that company is gearing up to produce what's going to be 60 million swabs a month every six months, enough swabs for the entire population of the American people.
And what was beautiful about was also the fact that, in order to ramp up a factory in 60 days, instead of a year -- that's Trump time -- they also recruited General Dynamics. Phebe Novakovic, the head of that best -- one of the best CEOs in the country, has been able to repurpose factories.
So, what they did was, they made the machines that help Puritan package the swabs. So, you saw jobs created from Bangor to Guilford to Pittsfield, all the way to the Bath Iron Works in Brunswick.
In the same time, Maria, we met with a group of commercial fishermen, President Trump signed an executive order. This is one of two over the last two weeks that have done more for commercial fishermen in the last 50 years than any president has done.
BARTIROMO: Right.
NAVARRO: And what the president did that day was liberate 5,000 square miles of fertile fishing area outside the Georges Bank for commercial fishermen.
So, I saw nothing but beautiful jobs created coming in from the high school where we landed and the Nighthawks, to the facility at Puritan half-a-mile was just ringed with people cheering the president on. This is what happens when you get away from our major metropolitan areas into the rest of the country.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NAVARRO: It was a beautiful thing to of watch.
So, all the way, from Bar Harbor to Kennebunkport, Bangor, Bath, everywhere in between, the great state of Maine is working.
BARTIROMO: Huh.
NAVARRO: And that's the kind of thing I'm seeing with this president. That's what he cares about, creating jobs.
BARTIROMO: Right.
So, you're back in Washington right now.
Washington, D.C., was the last city to -- I guess to reopen. Where you're standing right now, Peter, are there protesters, peaceful protesters around you? Can you tell us what it looks like there?
Because you're talking about a tale of two cities. We're going to show the pictures of Washington vs. where you are in Maine. What does it feel like right now where you are?
NAVARRO: This morning, it's a very peaceful Sunday morning.
Yesterday, going to and from work, what I saw is many peaceful protesters, but there were a lot of bad hombres out there as well ready to riot.
And here's what my concern is in this kind of tale of two cities, where we had Guilford, Maine prospering. D.C. right now is a burnt-out shell. And the second worst mayor in America, in Muriel Bowser, is largely responsible for that. She waited until all 50 states to reopen this place, and it's not open now.
What it is basically is graffiti. It's boarded-up places. And here's -- let me do a little math for you, a little arson and looter math for you. When you have an arsonist burn out a small business, that's 100 jobs that are destroyed, not just inside the enterprise, but along the supply chain.
When you have a pack of animals go in and loot a big store, that's thousands of jobs. And if you add up that, Maria, and the math, over the 16 major metropolitan areas where the National Guard has had to be deployed, that's almost two million jobs that are being impacted, at a time when China has put 40 million Americans out of work and killed 100,000 Americans.
And so the point, I think, here is that this is a time to be opening our businesses, not bringing them down, not turning our major metropolitan areas into theme parks for arsonists and looters. And I blame China for a lot of this, because, if you think about what happened in the 2000s, Maria, China, with its unfair trade practices, destroyed factory towns one after one throughout the Midwest.
What China's virus is doing -- and they unleashed this on the world -- and your show is one -- been one of the few brave enough to cover that story. What they have done is target, like intercontinental ballistic missiles, the two pillars of American cities.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NAVARRO: That's the high-rise density and the mass transit. Without those two things, our cities don't work.
So, this president built this economy up in three-and-a-half, the most beautiful economy in history. We can do it again. But we're going to need our major metropolitan areas to get back to work.
BARTIROMO: Right.
NAVARRO: And when I look around at this city, with Muriel Bowser, it's not happening any time soon.
BARTIROMO: And you write that today in an op-ed on FOXNews.com, talking about China and its culpability.
"China has exploited the coronavirus pandemic to advance its strategic interests," and you write through -- throughout.
Look, we have seen a real impact from all of this, this year. And, of course, you just said, even the protests are worsening, at two million jobs affected.
So, I guess we have to get the manufacturing base fired up in this country. It's been the services part of this economy that's gotten crushed by this shutdown.
Are you going to be able to move the needle? You have been on with me before talking about how dangerous it is that even the government buys way too much in terms of our pharmaceuticals and our medical equipment from China.
NAVARRO: Well, let's be clear what the Chinese Communist Party is doing right now.
Behind this crisis that they foisted on the world, they're sinking ships in the South China Sea. They're invading India. They're trying to steal our vaccines.
And I know I'm going to be criticized for what I'm about to say right now, but I would like to see at least one sign out there that says China lied, Americans died, because the bigger context here, as we struggle to get back to full economic strength, is that China, China has a plan to take us over and take the world over.
That's not hyperbole. All you need to do is look at what they're doing, what the reaction is. Let's remember what they did. They spawned that virus. They hid the virus. They sent it on airplanes around the world to seed America and the rest of the world. And now we have got 100,000 Americans dead, and we have got 40 million Americans on the unemployment line, trillions of dollars of economic wealth destroyed.
And, Maria, your show does such a good job of highlighting this. But I will bet you a lot of money that none of the other Sunday shows today are even going to mention the word of China, when, in fact, this is something that we as a nation have to grapple with. This is something that this president right over there has done in terms of standing up to China, the first president in -- ever to do that.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
And in terms of your work on the fishermen, there will be new tariffs on lobsters? What specifically are you working on?
NAVARRO: Well...
BARTIROMO: I know the president called you the lobster king.
Real quick, Peter. We have got to jump.
NAVARRO: What we need to do is stop these -- Europe and China from punishing our lobster fishermen with high, unfair tariffs that manipulate our political system.
And that's the kind of thing that we're going to address in the coming days.
BARTIROMO: All right, we will leave it there.
Peter, it's great to see you this morning. Thanks so much, Peter Navarro joining us this morning at the White House.
NAVARRO: Thank you, Maria.
BARTIROMO: GOP lawmakers are working to get to the bottom of the origins of the Russia investigation, meanwhile, with some pretty stunning developments coming out of a hearing on the matter this past week.
Senator Lindsey Graham led that hearing. He chairs the Judiciary Committee. And he will join me live to tell us who he is going to call up next to hear from.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Do you think he was truthful to you?
ROD ROSENSTEIN, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, I believed, Senator, that Mr. McCabe was not fully candid with me. He certainly wasn't forthcoming.
In particular, senator, the -- with regard to Mr. Comey's memoranda of his interviews with the president and with regard to the FBI's suspicions about the president, Mr. McCabe did not reveal those to me for at least a week after he became acting director, despite the fact that we had repeated conversations focusing on this investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: And that was Rod Rosenstein testifying in front of Lindsey Graham this past week.
Joining me right now is the senator, Senator Lindsey Graham, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
And, Senator, it's always a pleasure to see you. Thanks so much for joining us.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
BARTIROMO: That was your question on whether or not Andrew McCabe lied to Rosenstein.
(LAUGHTER)
BARTIROMO: Do you see Rosenstein breaking away from Andrew McCabe? What's your reaction to what took place last week?
GRAHAM: I was pretty stunned.
So, Rosenstein said: I signed the warrant, but I did not know anything about the underlying documentation being altered, and I did not know that the central document to get the warrant, the Steele dossier, had been disavowed in January, because, if anybody signs this warrant application knowing that the Russian subsource disavowed the reliability of the Steele dossier, and that the Department of State lawyer altered e-mail, if they knew that, they would be going to jail themselves.
So I will call McCabe. I find it hard to believe that McCabe and Comey did not know that the Russian subsource told the FBI in January, oh, by the way, the documents you're using to get a warrant against Carter Page, the Steele dossier, it's a bunch of hearsay, bar talk and garbage.
That's why they will eventually be called before the committee.
BARTIROMO: So, let me just bring you this statement from Andrew McCabe after your hearing, Senator, because McCabe is firing back.
He says this: "Mr. Rosenstein's claims to have been misled by me or anybody from the FBI regarding our concerns about President Trump and the campaign's interactions with Russia are completely false. Mr. Rosenstein approved of and suggested ways to enhance our investigation of the president. Further, I personally briefed Mr. Rosenstein on Jim Comey's memos describing his interactions was the president."
Somebody is lying here. Are you going to call Andrew McCabe to testify in front of your committee?
GRAHAM: Just as sure as the sun rises and sets, I will.
And here's what I would say to Mr. McCabe. In the warrant application by the FBI and the Department of Justice to the FISA court, you said that the Russian subsource was truthful and cooperative.
Inspector General Horowitz found a memo about the interview with a Russian subsource, saying that the Russian subsource disavowed all the information in the dossier, that it wasn't reliable, that it was bar talk, it was hearsay, it shouldn't be used to get a warrant.
So, at the end of the day, the FISA court rebuked the Department of Justice and the FBI. And I want to call every person who signed that warrant and have them account for what they knew and when they knew it.
We're not going to let the system blame some low-level intel analyst or case agent for defrauding the court. I believe it goes up to the very top. And I'm going to get to the bottom of it. And that means Sally Yates and Rosenstein and McCabe and Comey are all going to come before the committee, and they're going to be asked, what did you know and when did you know it?
BARTIROMO: Do you think we're going to see jail time here? I mean, they can't all say, I didn't know it, right?
(LAUGHTER)
GRAHAM: Well, you see, that's the point of -- Senator Hawley was very frustrated.
He looked at Rosenstein and says, well, if it's not your fault, whose it? And he says, I'm accountable, but I'm not to blame.
Jail time would lie with anybody who had knowledge that the Russian dossier, the subsource disavowed the Steele dossier. Remember, McCabe and Horowitz said, the I.G., that if you didn't have the Russian dossier, you wouldn't get a warrant, because they tried get the warrant on an occasion before. It was turned down.
It was McCabe said, there's a document in New York you might want to use against Carter Page. It was the Steele dossier.
They never tried to verify it. They used it all the way through June of 2017. But the problem is, in January of 2017, the Russian subsource appeared for three days before FBI agents and said, this is a bunch of garbage.
So, we're going to find out what happened. And I'm not going to let these people blame some low-level agent or intel analyst, unless that's the truth, and I don't think it is the truth.
BARTIROMO: So, what you're saying is, if they knew in January of 2017 that the dossier was garbage, and the guy from Russia who brought them the dossier to Christopher Steele also disavowed the dossier, and yet they still used it to continue getting re-warrants, re-upped warrants for Carter Page...
GRAHAM: Right.
BARTIROMO: ... then that was fraud, and that -- you think that could mean jail time, if you can prove that they knew it, and they used it anyway?
GRAHAM: Absolutely.
Well, Durham's looking at this. What did Horowitz tell us? He found a memo in the file where the intel analyst who interviewed the subsource said that the subsource denied the details in the dossier, that he didn't provide all this. He doesn't know where some of it came from, and a lot of it was just hearsay, bar talk, not accurate.
So you would have to believe that one of the most important investigations in the history of the FBI, a sitting president, that the system was denied information about a three-day interview where the subsource disavowed the primary document.
I find that hard to believe, but that's what we're going to be looking at.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
GRAHAM: And, again, if the case agent, intel agent told higher-ups that this whole case is falling apart, and they kept going forward, then they're in trouble with the law.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
Senator, are you going to interview those case agents that actually spoke with the subsource from the Russian dossier? Are you going to interview the FBI agents, those four individuals, these low-level individuals you're saying who may or may not...
GRAHAM: I have been asked to interview...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
GRAHAM: I made a request to interview the case agent and the intel analyst, and there were two other people, who interviewed the subsource for three days in January, again in March, again in May.
And they're denying me the ability to do that. I'm going to keep working the system. Attorney General Barr has been the most transparent attorney general in my lifetime. Grenell released a lot of information.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
GRAHAM: But why did they run all these stop signs?
The question is, did the case agent and the intel agent refuse to tell the system about exculpatory information? Does the fault lie with two or three people? Or was it a system out of control?
Here's what I think. Every time there was a stop sign for Carter Page or Flynn, the system moved forward because the people at the top did not want to stop.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
GRAHAM: When General Flynn -- on January 4, the FBI wanted to clear General Flynn because there was no there there regarding him Russian -- working with the Russians.
BARTIROMO: Right.
GRAHAM: That's when the January 5 meeting occurred.
It was the seventh floor that wanted to continue to look at General Flynn, not the actual agents in the field.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
Well, we all want accountability. And we are certainly grateful, the audience is grateful to you, Senator, for starting up those hearings last week.
We so appreciate you joining us this morning. Thank you, sir.
Senator Lindsey Graham there.
Meanwhile, coming up next: His New York Times' op-ed on sending in U.S. troops to handle violence and protests sparked outrage among Times staff. The New York Times rebuffed it, and then a 180-degree change from the paper itself.
The author is here. Senator Tom Cotton will join me live on that and China when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
Controversy over Senator Tom Cotton's New York Times op-ed this past week, which was on violence in protests across the country.
His piece Wednesday titled "Send in the Troops" called for an overwhelming show of force and sparked an online revolt at The New York Times.
The Times issued a statement after it published it, saying this: "We have examined the piece and the process leading up to the Republican -- the publication. This review made clear that a rushed editorial process led to the publication of an op-ed that did not meet our standards."
Here to react right now is the senator himself, Senator Tom Cotton of the Armed Services, Intelligence and Banking, and Economic committees.
Good to see you, sir. Thank you so much for joining me, Senator.
What happened with The Times' op-ed? Was it rushed?
(LAUGHTER)
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Hardly, Maria.
I will say, my op-ed didn't meet the Times' standards. It far exceeded their standards, which is usually sophomoric, left-wing drivel.
But here's what happened behind the scenes. Last weekend, we saw rioting, rooting, really anarchy and insurrection on our streets. In Washington, D.C., seven days ago, a famous church was torched, memorials were desecrated, stores were looted.
And I said simply last Monday that, if the local police are overwhelmed by the numbers of these insurrectionists, if they need support from the National Guard, or, if necessary, as a last resort, federal troops, under the Insurrection Act, then that's exactly what has to happen.
Now, fortunately, that's what happened in most places over the course of the last week. So, what we saw yesterday was people exercising their First Amendment rights to demonstrate and to protest.
But, in the meantime, we published that exact argument in The New York Times. The New York Times editorial page editor and owner defended it in public statements. But then they totally surrendered to a woke child mob from their own newsroom that apparently gets triggered if they're presented with any opinion contrary to their own, as opposed to telling...
BARTIROMO: Yes. It's...
COTTON: ... the woke children in their newsroom, this is the workplace, not a social justice seminar on campus.
BARTIROMO: Well, it's unbelievable, because I know that it went back and forth three or four times in terms of edits and reedits. So, obviously, they have had a process with which to go.
I like what Howie Kurtz said. Howie Kurtz said, look, this is such a window into how biased The New York Times is, when -- they have just totally exposed themselves. The opinion page is just that, an opinion page.
COTTON: Yes, that's exactly right, Maria.
We have published op-eds in The New York Times before. It was the exact same process. And, again, the senior leaders of The New York Times publicly defended the decision to publish the op-ed after this woke mob began to rise up.
It was only after another day of infighting that they finally backpedaled. They still haven't identified any facts that are wrong in the op-ed. They haven't identified what was so rushed about this process.
They have only prostrated themselves in front of their young children who are acting like children...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
COTTON: ... who are acting like kids in a social justice seminar, as exposed -- as opposed to acting like grownups in the workplace.
BARTIROMO: Well, I want to get on to China.
But, first, let me get a word on the situation taking place right now. Just a couple of weeks ago, we had mayors and governors upset by the lockdown, upset by the shutdown. And now we have got all of these people on the ground protesting, many of whom are peaceful
But is there a worry that they're going to get COVID, being so close to each other?
COTTON: Well, I hope that's not the case. We won't know for a week or two, given the incubation period of the virus.
But I think we can say that the lockdowns and the most extreme form are going to have to be finished, whether de facto or not. You just can't expect people to continue to voluntarily comply with what some of these mayors and governors are saying.
It cannot be the case that thousands of Americans can exercise their First Amendment rights on the street, while dozens of Americans cannot exercise their First Amendment rights in churches. It cannot be the case that you can be arrested for opening a business, but not for looting one.
BARTIROMO: Unbelievable.
Real quick, before we go onto China, I wanted to mention that the number of people who have written op-eds for The New York Times, we have got one from the Taliban. I don't think there was any controversy around this, the headline here, "What We, the Taliban, Want."
That was an op-ed in The Times. There was also one from Putin. There was one years back from Hitler.
(LAUGHTER)
COTTON: Yes, I don't remember all the woke staffers at The New York Times rising up in arms whenever they published the Taliban op-ed just a few months ago.
It just goes to show you the moral rot inside some of our media and academic institutions, that they don't get outraged about the Taliban, but they do get outraged about conservative opinion.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
All right, let me move onto China, because we had more information and new information this week. China is now -- forces, Communist Party forces, are on the border facing off against forces in India.
Did they invade India? They have militarized the South China Sea. And, of course, they are overreaching on Hong Kong.
Your reaction to the new developments coming out of the CCP this past week in terms of their military?
COTTON: Sure, Maria.
There's been many aggressive steps out of the Chinese Communist Party over the last few weeks. They have been attacking fishing boats from other nations in the South China Sea. We all saw that they passed a law that cracked down on Hong Kong, in violation of their basic international commitments.
And, yes, in effect, they did invade Indian territory. Now, the border between China and India has always been murky in many places. But Chinese forces, no doubt, have taken territory that otherwise is claimed by India, significantly heightening tensions there.
Now, I commend the president for taking bold action, for example, about Hong Kong, withdrawing Hong Kong's favored trade status, and refusing to allow Chinese students who are affiliated with the People's Liberation Army to continue studying in our most advanced laboratories.
There's a lot more, though, that we can continue to do to China's ambitions and to prevent further Chinese aggression.
BARTIROMO: There is also news on Huawei, a real pushback.
You know, a week ago, we saw the English-speaking allies get together and write a memo, a press release, denouncing what China has done to Hong Kong. That includes Canada, U.K., Australia.
I'm wondering where Europe is. The European nations, like Germany, France, Italy, are they still using Huawei Telecom? And tell us what happened this past week in terms of Huawei and how it's spying on people across the world that have infrastructure in place that's Huawei.
COTTON: Yes.
So, one very big step the Trump administration has taken is to say that American can't -- technology can't be used in foreign-manufactured semiconductor chips that then are bound for mainland China. This closed the loophole from a Trump administration decision last year to prevent American-made chips from going to China.
And that decision alone to cut off American technology to foreign semiconductor manufacturers could reverse a lot of the Huawei decisions you have seen in our allies. Germany has said they may no longer be able to use Huawei technology. I know the United Kingdom is reconsidering it as well. That's a very good thing.
BARTIROMO: And I know that you have got legislation right now proposing $43 billion to beef up the U.S. military in the Pacific, partly for this reason.
Senator, I would love to hear more about that when you come back.
Great to have you this morning, sir. Thank you, sir.
COTTON: Thanks, Maria.
BARTIROMO: We will see you soon, Senator Tom Cotton.
New York City's Mayor Bill de Blasio under fire this morning for his handling of the citywide protests.
That's next with former Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio today lifting the citywide curfew, after 10 straight nights of protests.
De Blasio's been taking heat from all sides over his handling of the George Floyd demonstrations. Many now calling on him to resign.
Last week, former New York City Mayor and President Trump's attorney Rudy Giuliani joined me on "Mornings With Maria" on FOX Business.
Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK: The mayor should step down. He is incompetent. We are losing -- we are losing a tremendous amount of property. We are seeing people damaged and hurt seriously.
And, pretty soon, we're going to lose lives, if this man doesn't get out of the way and let someone activate the police department.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: And joining me right now once again is Rudy Giuliani.
And, Rudy, it's good to see you this morning. Thanks very much for joining us.
GIULIANI: Good to see you, Maria.
BARTIROMO: No signs that de Blasio is going to step down. Is New York safe?
GIULIANI: No.
It's safer. I mean, he did react to what I said and what the governor said and a number of other people. It wasn't just me that -- and he did activate the police somewhat, but still with a lot of things that aren't being done, including things -- I mean, some of the things he did obviously angered the left.
But some of the things that he could do -- for example, why isn't he using policemen on horseback? I used policemen on horseback to end crime in Times Square. And you just put them out. They can see in a crowd much better.
They can easily distinguish the Antifa troublemakers and the legitimate protesters. They can see within a crowd that somebody is getting ready to throw a rock before they throw it or getting a Molotov cocktail ready. It's totally insane that he's not using it.
It can't be that the police professionals aren't recommending it. They're too smart. So, he doesn't want to do it. And I understand he doesn't want to do it because he's afraid he will get in trouble with the animal people. So, I mean, that's the kind of guy we have got sitting in City Hall.
BARTIROMO: Well, just extraordinary.
GIULIANI: I mean, it...
(CROSSTALK)
BARTIROMO: Rudy, when you look at the streets, and you look up Madison Avenue, look downtown, the Village and SoHo, boarded up, it looks like a war zone in New York.
Look at this New York Times headline. The editorial board of The New York Times writes this to de Blasio: "Open your eyes. The police are out of control."
What can Governor Cuomo do about it at this point? And, Rudy, I mean, these thousands on the streets of New York City for a 10th straight day in a row. How much longer can this go on?
GIULIANI: Well, it can't go on for much longer.
They have been peaceful. They were yesterday. They were the day before. It does put a tremendous strain on the police department. And the police -- the idea that the police department in The New York Times, that the police department is out of control is totally crazy.
It's a complete construct of the left. It's like the hysteria they have created over police brutality. And, last year, only nine black men were -- unarmed black men were shot by police officers. Twenty white men were. And blacks were killed 99 percent of the time by other people, civilians, about 80 percent black and then everybody else.
BARTIROMO: Right. Well...
GIULIANI: So, basically, police brutality, when it happens, is shocking and terrible, but it's not at all, it's not even close to systemic. It's very rare, actually.
And that's just the truth. That's not racist. It's the opposite. And you can't say that.
BARTIROMO: And yet you have got this movement.
Well, you're right, because the truth is, when you look at the numbers, it's black-on-black shootings really the most prevalent.
But there's this movement now to defund the police.
GIULIANI: Well, 99 -- 99 percent of the time.
BARTIROMO: I'm sorry?
GIULIANI: Totally crazy. Totally crazy. If you truly care about black lives, right...
BARTIROMO: Who started the defund the police movement, Rudy?
GIULIANI: People...
BARTIROMO: You have got left lawmakers like AOC, Omar, Tlaib all pushing to defund the police, celebrities like John Legend, Jane Fonda signing this open letter.
What are the implications of this? What kind of services will be pushed in if you do have this defund the police?
GIULIANI: OK. The implications of this, the -- the implications of this, it would be devastating for the black community, much more than the white community.
They cannot care about black lives. The idea that Black Lives Matter would want to defund the police tells you it's a phony organization. The police kill a minuscule number of black people. Other black people kill 5,000, 6,000 black -- other black people a year.
The only thing that reduces that is the police. When I came into office, blacks were being killed four times more, maybe five, than they are now. I didn't stop it by disbanding the police. I didn't stop it with social workers or The New York Times.
I stopped it with putting a lot more police officers in Harlem than my predecessors did and taking heat in the white communities for doing that, because I was really interested in saving black lives, and not just political propaganda or bull.
This is tragic. This is where political ideology run amuck costs lives like, de Blasio has done to the city. You will literally...
BARTIROMO: What do you think...
GIULIANI: .. double, triple the number of black victims if you take the police out of these neighborhoods. It's insane, and it's cruel.
BARTIROMO: What do you think of Joe Biden's response?
Joe Biden said that Trump is completely oblivious, then said that 10 to 15 percent of Americans are not good people. I don't know.
GIULIANI: Well, the first comment...
BARTIROMO: He said, the staff donates to a group paying bail for the rioters, meanwhile.
(LAUGHTER)
BARTIROMO: And yet -- I mean, his staff is paying for some rioters to get out on bail.
And then he said that 10 to 15 percent of Americans are not good people. What do you think he meant by that?
(LAUGHTER)
GIULIANI: Well, I don't know what he meant by it. I don't know much -- that he means anything by anything.
When he said that Trump is oblivious, that's kind of like looking in the mirror, isn't it? I mean, that's projection. I guess, even with his deteriorated mental state, he can still project.
I mean, the guy is oblivious. If you can't see that this man is sick, then there's something wrong with you. And we have got a lot of smart people on the other side and a lot of smart people in his family. And their running him is so cynical, and it shows so much of a disrespect for the United States of America that you could try to put a man in that mental condition in the White House.
It's frightening how we have lost any sense of caring about the country. The man mentally can't function.
BARTIROMO: Well, Rudy...
GIULIANI: You wouldn't hire him -- you wouldn't hire him to run your store.
I wouldn't hire him to run a store, because he would get it all screwed up.
BARTIROMO: The truth is, there are -- there are criticisms coming from -- there are criticisms coming from your side as well.
There's a report this morning that says former President George W. Bush and Senator Mitt Romney will not support Donald Trump's reelection in November, according to a report this morning.
GIULIANI: No kidding. How come I'm not shocked by that?
BARTIROMO: Jeb Bush said he's not sure how he will vote, but he's pretty much in line with their thinking as well.
GIULIANI: So, there are a few people that are disgruntled.
Romney has -- has had a chip on his shoulder from the day he gave a speech four years ago that Trump would take us to war or destroy the country or -- I mean, go back and look at the predictions. They turned out to all be wrong.
He's voted against everything he can to try to stop his agenda. It's -- I know Mitt. And I know the Bushes. I have a different reaction to the two of them. Mitt's -- Mitt -- Mitt doesn't know what he believes.
BARTIROMO: Well, what about the Bushes?
GIULIANI: I mean, here's a guy that was pro-life, and then he was pro- choice. Who the hell know what he is now.
The Bushes are hurt. They're internally hurt.
And I -- my view is, get over it. The reality is, this country is bigger than your personal anger at Trump because he -- you know, he took off after Jeb, and he ruined him. He absolutely ruined him.
But you don't have to let him ruin you, if you just get up and start making rational decisions now. But there's a personal anger. There's a personal anger that's affecting their decisions.
And I'm very disappointed in them, because the difference between Trump and Biden is so palpable for anyone who has Republican values. If what you really believed in all your life, as you ran on, is low taxes, an emphasis on law and order, a strong foreign policy, maybe not exactly yours, but certainly a strong one, and not all this crazy anarchist views and -- all around Biden.
And they're going to support a man who is mentally incompetent, and they know it. So, you have got to get -- I appeal to the Bush family, get over your anger and think about the country.
BARTIROMO: All right, we will leave it there.
Rudy Giuliani, it's always a pleasure to see you, sir. Thanks so much.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
Virtually every major city in the country has seen protesters take to the streets these past weeks demanding justice and major reforms after the death of George Floyd.
A new rallying cry emerging: Defund the police.
Joining me right now is Republican Senator from South Carolina Tim Scott and former South Carolina Congressman and FOX News contributor Trey Gowdy.
Gentlemen, it's great to see you this morning. Thanks very much for being here.
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): Thank you.
BARTIROMO: And I love the fact that the both of you are such good friends and have been such good friends for many years now.
What is your reaction to defund the police? And I also, Senator, want to take your attention to this op-ed that we saw in The Journal this week, "The Myth of Systemic Police Racism," the myth.
They say: "George Floyd's death in Minneapolis has revived the Obama era narrative that law enforcement is endemically racist. In fact, this charge of systemic police bias is -- was wrong during the Obama years and remains wrong today. However sickening the video of Floyd's arrest, it does not represent the 375 million annual contracts the police officers have with civilians."
Your reaction.
SCOTT: Well, I'd say, on the defund police, what a ridiculous idea.
It is not an idea whose time has come. It should never come. The absolute nation requires law and order. We need order in our of streets, and the easiest way to have that is to have a strong presence of character-driven law enforcement officers.
As it relates to the op-ed, I had a chance to read Heather's work. I start off by, bless her heart.
But I would say this to that op-ed. There's no doubt in my mind that the average law enforcement officer in this nation is not a racist. There's also no doubt in my mind that, when you look at the actual facts, black folks are 2.5 times more likely to be shot by an officer than whites.
There's a lot missing in the articles. One of the reasons why I have proposed of legislation, the George Floyd-Walter Scott Notification Act, to get law enforcement agencies to report the data on the use of force that leads to death.
Without that actual information in an aggregate value, we don't really know what's going on. Fewer than 45 percent of agencies actually report their information to the FBI.
So, I think it would help all of us to get a clearer picture of what's going on within the law enforcement community.
BARTIROMO: Trey.
TREY GOWDY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: You know, Maria, within communities of color, the issues with law enforcement are much broader than who shoots whom.
That's incredibly important, but it's arrest rates. It's sentencing disparities. It's access to bond. It's access to diversion programs.
Senator Scott mentioned being stopped by law enforcement. Maria, he was stopped seven times as a law -- as a public official. Seven times, the man your viewers are looking at was stopped by law enforcement. He was stopped from entering the Capitol, even though he wears his Senate lapel pin and looks like a CPA.
I look like a gangster and don't wear my House lapel pin, and I was never stopped. So, the problems are much broader than just who shoots whom.
BARTIROMO: OK.
GOWDY: Defunding the police is the single dumbest idea I have ever heard.
Who is going to process crime scenes, arrest bad people? Who is going to enforce any law, child sex abuse, homicide? Who is going to do it, if it's not the police?
BARTIROMO: Yes, it's a great point. Yes.
We want to continue this conversation. Tim Scott and Trey Gowdy are with me this morning.
We're going to take a short break and come right back with this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
We are with two leaders of our community this morning, Senator Tim Scott and former Congressman Trey Gowdy.
Guys, I want to get your reaction to what the D.C. mayor had painted on the streets. And this is the Black Lives Matter mural which is on the road leading to the White House.
Do you think this is to honor the cause, or is this a message to President Trump, Senator?
SCOTT: It certainly is a -- it certainly is a message to President Trump. And it's a terrible message to our nation. It is polarizing, unnecessary, and unproductive.
The fact of the matter is that we certainly need to focus our attention on moving this country together, about healing. And that seemed to be in your face for one specific purpose, to be in his face.
That does not help the movement. It does not help the cause. It does not help the country. I found it to be really polarizing.
BARTIROMO: How are we going to bring this country together?
I know, Senator, you have been speaking with President Trump. Trey Gowdy, you have been talking a lot about this. What are your ideas, first you, Trey, in terms of bring the country together?
GOWDY: Well, you know, Maria, three years ago, Tim Scott and I could have written a book about anything in the world, and we chose to write a book about unity.
And Tim Scott has done more to open my eyes. I have never been black a day in my life, not a day in my life. So, I need someone else's eyes to experience that, to understand what that is like.
We need a country that is not so wed to conflict, wed to divisiveness. I mean, we have been through impeachment, a pandemic...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
GOWDY: ... an economic maelstrom.
We need to focus on unity, and not monetizing conflict, which is what our culture does now.
SCOTT: Maria, one of the...
BARTIROMO: I think, Senator, you have been doing that with your Opportunity Zones too.
Go ahead, sir. SCOTT: We certainly have.
President Trump is actually right about the importance of an economic comeback to bring people together. The more resources you have, the more margin you have towards other people in the country.
But one of the things that we can do to bring this nation together is to follow the example of Trey Gowdy as a prosecutor and as a human being. Trey has an amazing story. A young African-American was killed -- murdered. Excuse me.
And her father had no confidence in the justice system, until he met Trey Gowdy. And as a result of that meeting with Trey Gowdy, he still had no confidence. But, at the end of the trial, the man who said that this country is too prejudiced to bring justice to his daughter...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
SCOTT: ... he hugged Trey Gowdy. He hugged him, because justice was found.
BARTIROMO: What a beautiful vision. We will end it there.
Senator Tim Scott, former Congressman Trey Gowdy, thank you, gentlemen. Have a good day.
And I will see you this week on "Mornings With Maria."
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