'Undecided voters' reveal which way they are leaning as race nears end

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'Undecided voters' reveal which way they are leaning as race nears end

Three previously undecided voters tell 'The Story' what's driving their 2020 decision

Oct. 27, 2020 – This is a rush transcript from “The Story with Martha MacCallum” October 27, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: My thanks to Bret. Good evening, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum, and this is THE STORY. We are one week from election night. 69 percent of Americans say this is the most important of their lifetime. This is a hard-fought race and one of the most tumultuous times in American memory. And when those numbers start rolling in on Tuesday night, we'll start to see and break down the trends that we see among voters.

One group which will be closely watched are black voters, particularly young black men. President Trump got 13 percent of the black male vote in

2016 that was more than any GOP candidate before him. Both sides seen movement in this group and the campaign spoke directly to them today, starting with the former president who campaigned for Joe Biden in Florida.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, 44TH U.S. PRESIDENT: President for black folks since Abe Lincoln. Man, their son-in-law says black folks have to want to be successful. That's the problem. Who are these folks?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: African American unemployment, Hispanic American unemployment and Asian American unemployment all reached their lowest levels ever recorded.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: And last night in Philadelphia, the racial strife that has torn across this nation exploded in violence and looting that saw 30 police officers injured after fatal police shooting of a suspect.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

MACCALLUM: Police were hit with rocks and bricks. One officer was driven over in the street. She is in stable condition tonight.

And today, Joe Biden took his pitch to Georgia, showing that Democrats believe that they have a shot at flipping that state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Donald Trump fails to condemn white supremacy. He doesn't believe there's systemic racism as a problem. And he won't say black lives matter because they do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: But this moment from back in May still hangs over his message to black voters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a long way until November. We got more questions.

BIDEN: You've got more questions, but I'll tell you, if you have a problem figuring out whether you're me or Trump, then you ain't black.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: And the Biden campaign has seen push back from celebrities from Kanye West to Ice Cube to 50 Cent who recently said that he would vote for Trump to keep his taxes from skyrocketing. All of this has opened a door for the president, and it has made some Democrats uneasy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He doesn't want to pay 62 percent of taxes because he doesn't want to go from being 50 Cent to 20 Cent. And I and I had to remind him that he was a black person, so he can't vote for Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: One day later, the rapper appeared to backpedal on Twitter. No word on whether he's decided on his vote. Let's bring in Deroy Murdock, contributing editor for National Review Online and a Fox News Contributor, and Juan Williams, Fox News political analyst and co-host of The Five.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here tonight. Good to have you.

DEROY MURDOCK, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Good to be here, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Deroy, let me start with you. With all of that laid out. Talk to me about the black vote. Do you see it changing and if so, how?

MURDOCK: Yes, I think a lot of black voters across the country have taken a look at the Democrats who've taken us for granted. They just assume we're just going to line up and vote for him, which usually is the case. And in 2016, Donald J. Trump came out and said, vote for me. What the hell do you have to lose? I think there's a lot of black folks still asking that question. Only now he has a whole record to run on.

For example, he's been very supportive of school choice. He's provided funding for the D.C. school voucher program, which Joe Biden wants to kill.

Steady stream of income for the historically black colleges and universities, among other types of support. The first step back, this is a criminal justice reform measure that's benefited 3100 or so former prisoners who are now back to their normal lives trying to make something of themselves, many of them black. And you've got to put real emphasis on entrepreneurship and opportunity zones. 8700 opportunity zones, about $75 billion in private capital flowing in to create jobs and American dreams in minority communities, many of them black.

That sort of thing is very positive. This is actual achievement, actual accomplishment. We saw the lowest black unemployment rate in the country and the lowest black poverty rate in the country. First time in America, we've had black poverty below 20 percent in 2019 before the COVID-19 virus came in and wrecked everything. And now we're bouncing back from that.

And I think if the president's four more years of economic growth and booming economy, I think there'd be very good things to come for black people. None of this was achieved under Obama-Biden, they had eight years to do these things and they did none of the above.

MACCALLUM: So, Juan, how do you respond to that? And the numbers that we're seeing indicate that young black men, 18 to 44 are more sort of open to the idea of supporting a Republican, in this case, President Trump. Older black men seem to be more in the Biden camp, at least according to some of the numbers out there. What do you say to the list that Deroy just laid out there for why they should consider a Republican candidate?

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: I think there's always reason to consider a Republican candidate, Martha, because you're looking for different ideas, ideas that might work for you and your family. I just don't see that from President Trump.

Deroy makes the case about unemployment, which is something that the president often trumpets. But I think for most black people, you look at the record and you say, wait a minute, at the start of the recession, remember, President Obama came in and the rate there of black unemployment was nearly 18 percent, 17 plus something percent. And then it went down to about 6 percent before President Obama left office.

And then as it went down further, President Trump said the lowest unemployment. I think people see that as kind of an empty balloon full of hot air. It's not real, but he likes to trumpet it and say that's evidence of what he's done for the black community. Similarly, he says, I've helped the historically black colleges and universities and people say, well, let's look at the record. And it's pretty much where other presidents have done. So, I think that there's a real issue.

MACCALLUM: You need that funding permanent to prevent them from having to keep going back to have that run.

WILLIAMS: But there's no difference--

MACCALLUM: Year-after-year.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: There's no difference in the total. But I think the bigger issue is, lots of black - young black men are alienated, Martha, and feel like nobody is looking out for them. And especially you look - you mention the celebrities. They're really talking about taxes. I think, one of them said, so what if he doesn't like black people?

It's my taxes for these black celebrities. I think that's a separate issue.

But it doesn't speak to what most young black men feel, which is alienated.

And the biggest threat is they won't vote. That's why you see Obama on the campaign trail saying to people, get out and vote. That's why you see the NBA athletes, the NFL athletes, even the Major League Baseball players saying get out and vote.

MACCALLUM: Deroy, what do you say to that?

MURDOCK: Yes, I would say, look, one key variable you've seen is at the end of Obama, -Biden's term, black homeownership was at 41.7 percent. It's up at 47 percent as of the second quarter of 2020. Again, steady growth. This is a very big positive. There was a reduction in unemployment under Obama- Biden, it continued under President Trump because of deregulations, because of tax reductions, a greater more positive pro-business tone out of Washington rather than the Obama-Biden tone, which was, you didn't build that, terrible thing to say to entrepreneurs.

This is all very, very positive thing. And if it were not for the Chinese virus, which came in and caused such havoc, I think he'd be well on his way to a huge victory, including a large victory among black Americans.

MACCALLUM: A couple of issues that seem to be resonating with some voters to cross the aisle is our school choice, Juan, which is something that I know a lot of - all mothers and all parents would like, or most of them for their children to have, especially in the inner city, where there sometimes the options are not attractive at all. So, school choice is a big issue.

The other one that has come up quite a bit lately is the question of abortion. And, I was listening last night on Tucker show, Candace Owens was talking about this with respect to the Amy Coney Barrett ceremony and swearing in. And here's what she - she was speaking directly to black voters and here's what she had to say about this. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CANDACE OWENS, AUTHOR: You may want to take a look at why we as a society are saying there's something wrong with a woman who believes in life, who believes that, you know what, more black children should be born alive. We shouldn't have 400 out of 1000 black babies aborted compared to white Americans, where it's 103 out of 1000 births.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: This is something that Kanye West has spoken out about as well, Juan, 400 out of 1000 black babies, if that number is correct. It is a shocking, shocking number.

WILLIAMS: Right, I think everybody in the world would say that's a shocking number. But the reality is that abortion is under the Supreme Court and in our country is a right. It's a matter of privacy. People can make that decision on their own. We shouldn't be telling them; big government shouldn't be intervening in people's lives.

Most abortions in this country are not to, you know, sexually indiscriminate teens making. I mean, these are two married women, often women with other children who are making a determination about what's best for their families and for themselves, oftentimes in relationships.

So, to me, I just think, again, you're trying to racialize an abortion issue. That to me, is a bigger issue for women of all colors. And certainly, if you ask the American people, it's close to two-thirds who say that they believe Roe v. Wade and abortion rights should be upheld by this court.

MACCALLUM: Well, the question is whether or not some neighborhoods are - go ahead, quick note.

MURDOCK: Yes, I just make this observation.

WILLIAMS: Just a quick note. I wanted to say I agree with you with regard to school choice. And I think most black Americans want school choice and feel that they don't have sufficient options in terms of educating children. But that's not to say that they would immediately, then turn on the teacher's unions who are uptight about what it means--

MACCALLUM: I've got to get a quick thought from Deroy. I hear your point on that. Quickly, Deroy, if you can then.

MURDOCK: Briefly, Juan talked about government not intervening in women's lives. Well, that's how about having the government not intervene by funding Planned Parenthood and taking your taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions and kill so many of these black babies who otherwise could be born and go about and have beautiful lives in America. You know, a bare minimum can we say if we're going to have an abortion, pay for it yourself?

Let's start there.

MACCALLUM: All right, gentlemen, thank you very much, Deroy Murdock and Juan Williams, good to have you both with us tonight.

MURDOCK: Good to be here. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Up next, we're going to speak with Brit Hume about some of the missteps or misspoken moments on the campaign trail for Joe Biden and whether the media overall on a number of issues has really given him a pass throughout this campaign. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: As you saw earlier, Joe Biden is campaigning in Georgia today, hoping to flip that state that has largely voted Republican since 1972, with the exception of Carter and Bill Clinton. So, Biden is down by about four, according to RCP in Georgia right now, the former vice president has had to clean up a number of statements in the recent days on transitioning away from oil, fracking and the latest, a big error on what he said is free college plan would cost. Correspondent Jacqui Heinrich covering the Biden campaign, as always, today, and she is in Atlanta tonight. Hi, Jacqui.

JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Martha. The campaign says 290 cars were allowed in with the attendance around 870 people making this the largest of the former VPs events since he's gotten back on the trail, even bigger than the DNC. And it's happening in a reliably red state long considered out of reach to the Democrats. Georgia, as you mentioned, hasn't elected a Democratic president since 1992. And the campaign, though believes that this state is competitive, and it could become part of the path to 270.

The local activists out here really laid the groundwork after a series of narrow losses in 2017 and 2018, including Stacey Abrams, who lost the governor's race by about 55,000 votes. Tonight's event also included both Democratic Senate candidates trying to flip seats held by Republican incumbents. Georgia is already seeing record early voting turnout and with the highest percentage of black voters in any battleground state. The final push for the Biden campaign includes an ad blitz and visits from both members of the ticket and their spouses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: There are a lot of pundits who would have guessed four years ago that the Democratic candidate for president in 2020 would be campaigning in Georgia on the final week of the election. But we do because something is happening here in Georgia and across America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEINRICH: Biden focused on social and economic justice here, but spent the last few days clarifying his climate and energy policy after his debate night pledged to transition away from fossil fuels. He made two stops in Pennsylvania on Saturday. Then he went back again yesterday, reiterating that he doesn't want to shut down oil fields or eliminate fracking. But a few stumbles this weekend are also creating some hiccups.

In a podcast, Biden referred to his campaign's election protection program as an extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization. And the campaign had to correct this statement on 60 Minutes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I can send every single qualified person to a four-year college in their state for 150 billion. I can make sure every single person qualifies community college. You can go and we still have a lot of money left over.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After our interview, Mr. Biden's staff told us he misspoke and that the cost of free public college could be twice as much as he said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEINRICH: There was a small group of about 50 Trump supporters protesting outside the gate here. But I would note it was fewer than I've seen in places like Pennsylvania. And that's significant given that we are in Georgia today, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. Jacqui. Thank you very much. Jacqui Heinrich on the campaign trail tonight. Joining me now, Fox News Senior Political Analyst Brit Hume. Brit, always good to see you. Thanks for being here.

BRIT HUME, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Seven nights away from the big election. We don't like to make too much of these gaffes and mistakes. However, it feels like so much of the Biden campaign does not get covered very completely. This is one moment that did get a little bit of attention this week. And I think it's worth replaying when it appears that the candidate forgot the first name of the person that he's running against. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Four more years of George. He is going to find ourselves in a position where if Trump gets elected, we're going to be in a different world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Brit, I mean what did you make of that moment? They are now saying that it had to do with the fact that George Lopez was also part of this Zoom call, although it certainly sounds like - it doesn't sound like that when I play that.

HUME: No, it doesn't. And look, he had a senior moment. People his age do.

I'm the same age he is. I have them sometimes. It means you're forgetful.

You can't call things to mind as quickly as you once did. Some of his mistakes, I think of the classic kind of gaffes that Biden has always made.

For example, that comment he made, remember about if you can't, he said if you can't figure out whether you're going to vote for me or Trump, you're not black. That was a classic Biden gaffe of the kind of he's made since he was a young man. He's always made a lot of those gaffes.

More recently though, we hear that he has these moments where he kind of forgets where he is. Remember earlier this year he was in New Hampshire, in New Hampshire. And he said, what's not to like about Vermont? And then at one point, he couldn't remember that he had met with the Parkland students.

He said he'd done it while he was in the White House. He wasn't, he was out of office by that time and had been for some time. These are the kinds of things that elderly people run into.

And there's no use pretending otherwise, which is why I think that the strategy that the Biden campaign has engaged in of keeping him campaigning to a minimum is wise because it gives him - he prepares well for debates.

He's done well in the debates, in my view. He's had a few moments, but he's done pretty well. And it keeps the focus on Trump and away from any of the kinds of senior moments that Biden might characteristically have makes sense.

MACCALLUM: So, there was a piece by Bill McGurn today Saving Private Biden, it was called, and he quotes at the end, Mark Hemingway, he says, the best summary of the new standard election coverage was given by Mark Hemingway.

After a particularly funny news conference, he relayed the assessment of a friend watching the press handle Joe Biden is like watching someone make sure a three-year-old wins a candy land.

So, you have covered presidential elections for decades, Brit. I mean, why is this happening. Both candidates need to be scrutinized and scrutinized well, I mean that's what this coverage is all about. But he really has not had any.

HUME: This coverage of Biden's loss of cognitive function is something he would certainly be expected of any other candidate. Remember, there was a lot of discussion about Ronald Reagan, even back during his reelection campaign as to whether he'd lost it. And he managed to recover after a bad first debate and put those put those matters to rest. But later on, in his presidency, there was a lot of issues raised and reporters were fairly aggressive about it. They didn't have a medical diagnosis. But senility is not a medical term.

It's an ordinary garden variety colloquialism, meaning, exhibiting the signs of old age, such as forgetfulness. But this doesn't get - the press will not touch this. They will not touch this, which, of course, makes the Biden strategy work even better. And that has been - that has been the effect of it. And I think that, this boils down to one thing, Martha. Many in the media regarded the election of Donald Trump as a kind of national emergency. And it was up to them, they felt to so treat Trump as to hopefully they saw it, get him out of office, but if not, make sure he didn't get re-elected. And they're doing the best they can in that regard.

He gets relentless painless scrutiny and Biden gets very little.

MACCALLUM: It's very true, I mean, there's a very thinly veiled effort to sort of make what many in the media just think is the right thing to do, and that's not what they're there for. They're there to cover the story on both sides.

Speaking of covering the story, here's you on election night in 2000. Brit, before I let you go, because we're going to be making some calls a week from tonight. And this was a memorable moment that led to a very contentious recount. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUME: Got to interrupt you. We are now calling Fox News now projects George W. Bush, the winner in Florida and thus, it appears, the winner of the presidency of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: I just can't believe that was 20 years ago. Brett, you know your thoughts on that and how ugly this thing could possibly get, given what we know so far?

HUME: Well, obviously, Martha, I'll never forget that moment because, of course, it wasn't very long thereafter that we had to pull the call back.

And then in the wee hours of the morning, we renewed the call. And 37 days later, Bush was declared the winner in Florida and thus the presidency, and he went on to serve two terms. I remember Martha, very well what happened four years later when the key battleground state that was in play that night was Ohio. And we came on before anybody else did and called Ohio.

You saw just briefly there the face of Michael Barone before I popped up in that in that clip you showed and Michael Barone was with us that night in 2004, four years later, when we were pretty apprehensive about being first again, was it call that Bush had won the presidency? And we went to Michael and he reeled off a discussion about the state of Ohio and its demographics and so forth. It was dazzling. And I thought to myself, you couldn't have heard him without believing fully that Bush had won Ohio, as indeed he had.

And I remember thinking to myself, I love Michael Barone.

MACCALLUM: That's so funny. That was my first election with Fox, that 2004 night. And I remember thinking, wow, OK, we're ready to call Ohio. This is getting pretty exciting. And we're out in a little bit of a limb here, given what happened last time around. I also remember at the convention, I helped Michael Barone because he had a live shot when the balloons were coming down and I was on the side pushing all the balloons out of his face, so that he could speak.

HUME: That's what friends are for right Martha.

MACCALLUM: We have a lot of hats that we wear. Exactly. Exactly. Thanks, Brit. Great to see you as always.

HUME: You bet.

MACCALLUM: We'll see you soon. So, the newest justice, Amy Coney Barrett takes the bench as cases involving next week's election already start rolling in, how her vow of judicial independence could soon be put to the test. That's next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMY CONEY BARRETT, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: My fellow Americans, even though we judge don't face elections, we still work for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM:  Associate Justice Amy Coney Barrett, that's the first time I've said that since she was sworn in, she can now begin work on the high court as election cases are already stacking up. Among them, challenges from Republicans in key states of North Carolina and Pennsylvania on the deadlines for mail-in ballots.

Officials in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania today called on Justice Barrett to recuse herself, arguing, quote, "troubling is the language that President Trump has used in consideration of this nomination linking it directly to the electoral season at hand with applications for his own reelection."

Joining me now, Carrie Severino, Judicial Crisis Network chief counsel and policy director and co-author of "Justice on Trial:  The Kavanaugh Confirmation and the Future of the Supreme Court."

Carrie, good to see her tonight. Let's start there with this from Luzerne County. Do they have legs to stand on in terms of asking her to recuse herself based on comments by the president?

CARRIE SEVERINO, POLICY DIRECTOR, JUDICIAL CRISIS NETWORK:  No, that has never been the historical standard. You had, for example, Justices Sotomayor and Kagan sat on numerous cases that President Obama was involved in during election year, same thing for Ginsburg and Breyer. It is never been the standard that you have to recuse yourself in cases that involve the president who appointed you, including election-year cases. Simply they are trying to invent something new here.

MACCALLUM:  I want to show you a sound bite from Joe Biden, because one of the big stories has been whether or not Democrats who are clearly very outraged about the fact that the president did add Amy Coney Barrett to the court at such a late date in this election season, here's what he said about what he would consider doing to change the dynamic there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  There is a question about whether or not -- it's a lifetime appointment, I'm not going to attempt to change that at all. There was some literature among constitutional scholars about the possibility of going from one court to another court, not just always staying the whole time on the Supreme Court, but I have made no judgment, my word. My word is I've made no judgment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM:  So, what you think about that idea that justices should rotate around the federal benches and the Supreme Court rather than just stay on the Supreme Court to serve their term?

SEVERINO:  Well, sure, he's right, that's something that has been floated by constitutional scholars. So, a question whether you could actually do that by statute or whether you would need a constitutional amendment to change that.

But the big thing here is what he's trying not to talk about because none of the -- none of the calls from the left that we've heard or let's rotate judges. It's all about court packing.

That is what the liberal voices on the left want to do. That's what Joe Biden doesn't want to acknowledge what his position is on but trust me, if he is forced and pushed by the left, there's no way he would stand up to that pressure and we are seeing that is what the left wants. They want FDR style court packing where you add seats to make the judges into a super legislature rather than having them just sit back and do the judging as we know that Amy Coney Barrett has promised to do.

MACCALLUM:  And he was in Warm Springs, Georgia today which is one of the homes of FDR. Here's Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, she was very succinct and to the point in her tweet today. She said expand the court. So, we know where she stands on that.

Quick question for you with regard to Brett Kavanaugh, who some say tipped his hand a bit in terms of the way he would view these cases with regard to a contested election. He said -- he says under the U.S. Constitution the state courts do not have a blank check to rewrite state election laws for federal elections. He wrote in a footnote on a concurring opinion in the past.

Is he sort of indicating that he doesn't think that states should make changes at this point?

SEVERINO:  Yes. But what he's saying is totally not controversial, to my opinion. The idea that federal courts and state courts need to be very careful overturning things the legislatures say is something that's very common, it's something that is going to apply both ways. It might help Republicans in some cases, it might help Democrats in other cases.

MACCALLUM:  Carrie Severino, thank you very much. Good to see you tonight.

Thanks for coming on.

SEVERINO:  Thanks.

MACCALLUM:  So up next, our panel of undecided voters who have become our friends over the course of this election season, they've mostly made up their minds. They are back to tell you tonight what has finally persuaded them, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM:  Well much has changed since we last checked in with our undecided voters in battleground states, including another presidential debate, a new Supreme Court justice and now with just one week to go, our voters are back to tell us where they are now in their thinking.

Joining me is Catherine Schroth of Ohio, she is music teacher who voted for Evan McMullin last time around, Kimberly Brown, also of Ohio, is a charter school enrollment coordinator who voted for Jill Stein in 2016, and Jerry Stepanovich of Michigan is a construction superintendent. He voted for Donald Trump back in 2016.

Great to have all of you back with us. Thank you for coming along this road to the election as we all watch in great anticipation.

Jerry, let me begin with you. You all sent over some notes about things that have been on your mind in this process and one of the things that jumped out at me was that you said that you felt like you had barely seen Joe Biden during the course of this and that he wasn't really out there.

Why does that bother you given the situation in the country with coronavirus?

JERRY STEPANOVICH, CONSTRUCTION SUPERINTENDENT:  Well, Martha, I want to know what he stands for. I want to know what his platform is and I want to know what he's -- day-to-day what he's doing.

I mean, I see President Trump out there jumping around to four or five states and you know, we see Joe -- well, we don't see Joe. Where is Joe?

That's what we want to know. And if we don't see him, how do we know what is really standing for?

The other thing that bothers me is when they do show Joe, it's, you know, 30, 40 people. I see our president and there's four or 5,000. I'm encouraged by that.

MACCALLUM:  So, Jerry, you're in Michigan. The president was there today.

What's your feel for what's going on there on the ground, you know, as far as you can tell? Which way do you think Michigan is leaning?

STEPANOVICH:  Well, with my friends, family, I would say we are very -- leaning very heavily to Donald Trump. The people in my industry all want to keep their jobs. They are afraid of what another shutdown would bring to the state of Michigan.

I mean, we -- but for my boss, who you know worked his hardest to keep us busy and I'm very grateful for that, and we did stay busy, but another shutdown could be devastating to my industry and to the businesses that we support.

MACCALLUM:  Interesting. And you say that you are now planning -- you are on the fence when we first met, but you are planning to vote for Trump now, is that correct?

STEPANOVICH:  One hundred percent, Martha.

MACCALLUM:  OK. All right. Let's bring in Catherine and Kimberly, both from Ohio. Obviously, another battleground state. Kimberly, let me start with you. Where are you and your process right now? Have you made up your mind?

KIMBERLY BROWN, CHARTER SCHOOL COORDINATOR:  I have. I have actually voted this past Friday.

MACCALLUM:  Good for you. And what went into your thinking and what did you decide?

BROWN:  Well, here's the thing with me. I don't like Mr. Trump and I did not like Mr. Joe Biden, so my decision was really based upon Mr. Pence and Ms. Kamala Harris. Because what I wanted to know that if they ran into any type of situation, which particular V.P. would actually have the ear of the president.

Now the last four years we saw Mr. Pence in action with Mr. Trump. Mr.

Trump is extremely immature, he is not presidential and some of his ideologies are mind-boggling, especially when it comes to women and women of color. And as I thought about his last behavior regarding calling Kamala Harris a monster, there was no way in the world as a colored woman I could actually support anything that Mr. Trump would do.

Now looking at Mr. Biden, Mr. Biden, like I said, I'm not a fan of his and I had to go back to 1991 and look at the Anita Hill case when he was the chair of the judiciary committee and she had accused Justice Clarence Thomas when he was nominated by George Bush to be on the Supreme Court and how he shunned a lot of women who were going to support the stories of Anita Hill, so that didn't register with me.

So what I looked at, I looked at the debate between Pence and Harris and I had to say to myself, who would be more coachable, who would have an open ear to actually deal with issues regarding (Inaudible) and who would deal with women issues and that would be Kamala Harris. Who would be the most approachable? Kamala Harris. Who would have the ear of the president?

Kamala Harris.

So, on that note as far as you know, rectifying some of this racial divide, I had to go with someone who would actually speak out on the benefit of every single American, especially now that we are dealing with COVID-19 and that would be the Biden and Harris team.

MACCALLUM:  OK. All right. Catherine, I know you paid very close attention to this race throughout. Are you any closer to your decision? And what are the factors that are weighing on you tonight?

CATHERINE SCHROTH, MUSIC INSTRUCTOR:  I am closer. Although it may seem bizarre, but I'm not sure I will know until the minute I'm in that booth. I appreciate all the things that Kimberly said. I've had similar thoughts. I, you know, healthcare is a big thing to me and I don't know that either Biden or Trump have impressed me with that.

I like, you know, that Biden wants to cap families at 8.5 percent of their income for health insurance, but it's not sustainable with this public option, so that doesn't really win me over.

I am also very concerned about there not being checks and balances as far as if the president and the Senate and the House are all Democrat, that's not the way our democracy was set up and so I am leaning towards voting for Trump and Pence.

I am always disappointed and President Trump's behavior, but because we are small business owners and because of the Republican platform, that's the way I'm leaning at this time. But like I said, I go back and forth a lot.

I'm not sure I'm going to know until I just actually do it.

MACCALLUM:  If you could talk to President Trump, Catherine, what would you tell him, you know -- what would you say to him about your decision and what would you ask of him?

SCHROTH:  I would say that he has his own worst enemy and I would ask him to get rid of his Twitter account and I would ask him to listen, listen to professionals, you know, when we are talking about the pandemic, listen to his people so that he doesn't pour fire on dividing issues and those of the main things I would say.

MACCALLUM:  OK. All right, it's great to have all of you with us. I just want -- in one word, in one of their names, you know, I know what your preferences are at this point are basically who they are, let me ask you who do you think will win the presidential election one week from tonight?

Kimberly.

BROWN:  Biden-Harris.

MACCALLUM:  Jerry?

STEPANOVICH:  Trump-Pence.

MACCALLUM:  You think? OK. Catherine, who do you think is going to win regardless of how you feel?

SCHROTH:  Biden-Harris.

MACCALLUM:  Interesting. OK. Thank you so much, all of you. Great to have you back on the show. Thanks for being with us throughout this very interesting year. Take care, all of you. Be well.

SCHROTH:  Thank you. You, too.

STEPANOVICH:  Thank you, Martha.

SCHROTH:  Bye.

MACCALLUM:  Well, it is the first of three campaign stops today, President Trump giving a big boost to Michigan's Republican Senate candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:  If one thing comes out of this whole group of thousands of people, vote for John James.

OK?

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM:  We get John James' take on what's going on in one of the most important states in the race, coming up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN JAMES (R), SENATE CANDIDATE:  Michigan holds the path to the presidency, Michigan holds the path to maintaining a Republican majority in the Senate and protecting our constitutional republic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM:  In the race for Senate in Michigan, Republican candidate John James currently trails the incumbent Democrat Gary Peters by about six points. Other polls do show them within the margin of error. James is fighting to turn the traditionally blue seat red, which could prove difficult in a state that hasn't elected on a Republican senator in 26 years.

President Trump today urging Michigan voters to turn that around and to make Michigan a pickup for his party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP:  John had money. He was successful. Where he was really successful is in the military, he could pilot a helicopter better than anybody, I hear.

(CROWD CHEERING)

TRUMP:  John James is running against a senator, U.S. senator that nobody has ever heard of before. Even in Washington, Peters. I said who the hell is Peters?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM:  Republican Senate candidate John James joins me now. Sir, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Good to have you with us.

JAMES:  Hey, thanks for having me on.

MACCALLUM:  So, I want to start by showing, those who don't know, who Gary Peters is. We did invite your opponent on tonight as well, but here is a sound bite of him talking about your election. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI):  Jobs have been lost. Manufacturing sector continues to struggle. The shallow rhetoric of my opponent and the shallow rhetoric of the president are not going to cut it. We need meaningful action.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM:  What's your response to that, sir?

JAMES:  All talk from somebody who's been in politics for 30 years, been in Washington for 12, been in the Senate for six and people didn't know his name until an election year. Thirty-three percent of the state had no clue who Gary Peters was and to this day still can't point to a single thing he's done.

Gary Peters wants to talk but the Great Lakes but there are still algae, blooms in the Erie, there are still pitfalls in our wells, our babies are still drinking leaded water. He wants to come out last week and say that ACA isn't working for businesses when he's been attacking me on wanting to fix Obamacare, the parts that are broken, and keep the parts that aren't.

And he missed all of the small business committee meetings in 2012 and 84 percent in total. He's a ranking member of homeland security and blew off reports, missed meetings, has been the invisible man for the state of Michigan.

Senator Peters is all talk, he's a career politician, ineffective. He toes the party line and does whatever Chuck Schumer says.

I have experience in the automotive industry, I run an automotive business, there are exactly zero senators who have automotive business experience and that would help our state, bringing results from somebody who understands what it takes to protect livelihood in the real world, not a career politician like Gary Peters.

MACCALLUM:  So, the race is tight. You, it's the second time you've run.

You lost last time. One of the things that President Trump brought up today is changing -- you know, people changing their votes. We keep hearing about all of the millions of people who have already voted. Actually, Michigan is one of those states that allow you to change your vote. Do you have any sense that people are changing their minds in Michigan at this point?

JAMES:  Well, I know that people in the state of Michigan are sick and tired of the status quo. Senator Peters, who on his taxpayer-funded gold- plated health care insurance plan that's exempted from ACA, he's hide -- he's hid that from the media. He said that from the people of the state of Michigan the part of the reason why he hid from debates on public access television is because he didn't want to account for his record of ineffectiveness and serving only himself.

He didn't want to stand and face the music in front of Michigan's voters with me. I believe that people in the state of Michigan are the reason why we have our internals released today, we are within 1.3 points, 1.3 and there is other polling that has us even closer and some even have us ahead.

I believe the people in the state of Michigan have --

MACCALLUM:  OK.

JAMES:  -- very, very sensitive B.S. meters and they are sick and tired of being lied to and you know, quite frankly, if Gary Peters had spent as much time and effort and money into helping the situation in Michigan than attacking a combat veteran, attacking a businessman, then I may not have had to run.

We may have had better options, but the status quo doesn't work for folks and Senator Peters is giving more political talking points. The choice is clear in Michigan right now. It's gas lighter in Gary Peters versus a war fighter in me, a career politician versus a combat veteran. It's a businessman versus somebody who gives lip service and we need change in Michigan.

MACCALLUM:  All right. As we said, we invited Gary Peters on, he's welcome to come on any night this week. It's a tightening race to be sure and Michigan is one of the most pivotal states in this whole race.

John James, thank you very much for sharing some time with us tonight. Good to have you here, sir.

We are going to take a quick break and we will have more of THE STORY for you on the other side of this break, so stay with us with seven --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM:  That is THE STORY of this Tuesday, October the 27th, 2020.

Seven days away from the big night. As always, THE STORY continues, so we'll see you right back here tomorrow night at seven. Have a great night, everybody.

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