Tucker reveals how authoritarianism is in the US

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Tucker reveals how authoritarianism is in the US

Fox News host reacts to Mark Milley's comments on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight'

This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," September 14, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Good evening and welcome to TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT.

We almost never use the term "Deep State" on this show. There is something about it that sounds paranoid, even a little nutty. As just a few years ago, you mostly heard the phrase from relics on the far left, the kind of people who lecture you about the united fruit company and the toppling of Mosaddegh.

The term, then and now, suggests that our democracy is fake. Elections and domestic politics are just a sideshow, no matter who you vote for, in the end the same people still run everything.

That's a pretty dark understanding of the American system. If you're a normal person who grew up here, it is the last thing you want to believe about your own country. It seems crazy.

And then you read stories like this one.

According to reporting this summer, in the days after last November's election, Mark Milley, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff held a meeting with senior military officials at The Pentagon. Milley wanted to inform them of what he described as a serious threat to national security, a threat so grave that it imperiled quote, "the stability of the Republic."

That threat Milley said was the sitting President of the United States.

Donald Trump had dared to question the election results. For this, Milley explained, the U.S. military might be required to use physical force against the President. We're the guys with guns Milley said.

Apparently, he had been preparing for this moment. Milley had similar conversations with the Director of the C.I.A., Gina Haspel, as well as with the head of the N.S.A., Paul Nakasone. He had also spoken directly to Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, Donald Trump's chief political rivals.

Now according to a new book by Bob Woodward and Bob Costa, Milley apparently went even further than that.

On October 30th of last year, Woodward and Costa report, Milley called his counterpart in China. That's a general called Li Zuocheng. Milley did not tell his boss, the President about this call either before he made it or after. Here was Milley's message for the Chinese military, quote: "General Li, I want to assure you that the American government is stable and everything is going to be okay. We are not going to attack or conduct any kinetic operations against you."

And then reportedly, Milley said this, quote: "General Li, you and I have known each other for five years. If we're going to attack, I'm going to call you ahead of time. It's not going to be a surprise."

Let that sink in. Quote: "If we're going to attack, I'm going to call you ahead of time. It's not going to be a surprise."

So according to this account, our country's top Defense officials secretly colluded with our chief military rival to undercut the elected President of the United States. How would you describe that? Deep State is not strong enough. That's treason. It is a crime.

And apparently, Mark Milley is not the only person who was implicated in this crime. Others knew it was happening as it did. Our Intelligence Agencies almost certainly heard Mark Milley's call. If they can read e- mails from a cable news show on FOX, what are the chances they were aware that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was speaking to a senior Chinese genera and what they were saying? Well, a chance of about a hundred percent.

And yet, the N.S.A. did nothing about it. The C.I.A. meanwhile, was clearly fully on board with this. "We are on the way to a right-wing coup," said Gina Haspel. She told Milley that. And in fact, there was a coup in progress, but it did not come from the right. It wasn't brewing in Alabama, instead a constellation of unelected government employees, loyal above all to the Democratic Party and to the permanent class in Washington, ignored the United States Constitution and that they invalidated the votes of tens of millions of American citizens.

How did they do that? Because they invalidated democracy.

Democracy doesn't mean anything if the people you elect have no power, and Mark Milley did his best to make certain the elected President had no power.

In early January, Woodward and Costa report, Milley called another meeting of senior officials at the National Military Command Center. He informed this group that they reported to him, not to the elected President of the United States, and that's not a small claim.

The National Military Command Center controls, among other things, the nuclear weapons inside our missile silos, as well as the nuclear weapons on board our submarines.

So Mark Milley was seizing personal control of America's nuclear arsenal. He went around the room and demanded that his officers submit to his authority, not the President's. Milley told them to follow no orders without first consulting him.

According to Woodward and Costa, all present in the room agreed to this. So civilian control of the military was over. Mark Milley was in charge.

If this is true, it is one of the scariest things that has ever happened in this country. You often people say they're worried about authoritarianism coming to America. Well it's here. That's what this is. It's authoritarian government. It is government by unelected unaccountable leaders who are willing to use violence to preserve their power.

That's what this book describes. It's shocking.

Not surprisingly, our news media have spent the day celebrating it. It turns out the self-described defenders of democracy don't really believe in the system they claim to revere. The idea of giving voters power over their own government repulses people like this.

So they are relieved to discover that in fact, our democracy is fake. Here's a selection from some of today's programming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK STENGEL, FORMER UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR PUBLIC DIPLOMACY: I would call General Milley a hero. He behaved in a heroic manner.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: But what he did was ensure the guardrails were in place, so I give him high marks for this based on what's described in the book.

GEORGE WILL, COLUMNIST, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I think Milley felt ill- used by the episode in Lafayette Square when he was used as a prop. So one can understand Milley's anxieties.

BARRY MCCAFFREY, RETIRED U.S. ARMY OFFICER: We are in a period of extraordinary danger. I think General Milley is going to be treated very favorably by history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: So you heard four people speak. The first guy you saw in that clip is Rick Stengel and he's a moron, obviously, so there's no surprise there. The second guy was some retired military official. But the last two -- George Will and Barry McCaffrey -- these are people who whatever you think of them or who they vote for, you would have imagined might defend American democracy when it came right down to it.

But no, they didn't. They cheered its ending.

They're happy to see Mark Milley secretly conspiring with the Chinese military to end civilian control of our Pentagon. So it turns out that's the government they want and you should not forget that.

So now that we know all this, what happens next?

Doug Macgregor is in some ways at the center of this story. He is a retired Army Colonel who last year advised the Trump administration on foreign policy.

In that capacity, he co-authored a memo calling for American troops to leave Afghanistan finally after 20 years. According to Woodward and Costa's account, that memo, Macgregor's memo is one of the reasons that Mark Milley decided to organize a coup.

Doug Macgregor joins us in studio tonight.

Doug, thanks so much for coming on.

We were talking before air and you upsettingly did not seem shocked by this. It does seem to people who don't know the system as well as you do, stunning that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff would be secretly calling a Chinese General and saying, we'll warn you if we're going to move against you.

But knowing what you know this does not shock you.

COL. DOUGLAS MACGREGOR (RET), U.S. ARMY: No, unfortunately, I'm not shocked. Keep in mind, we have yet to hear from General Milley.

CARLSON: Yes.

MACGREGOR: We're accepting what Bob Woodward wrote in the book as effectively gospel truth and I'm not doubting Woodward's integrity, but we know from experience that from time to time, he is somewhat flexible, and the interpretation may put a spin on it that may or may not be accurate.

CARLSON: And I hope this is one of those cases, but Milley has not responded as of 8:07 Eastern, so the fact is that -- the claim is that he made this phone call to his counterpart in the Chinese military and did not tell the President. The former President has issued a statement suggesting that he did not know.

So that alone -- tell us, is this within bounds or is it as far out of bounds as it seems?

MACGREGOR: No, there are certain things that we know. These are the facts.

First of all, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs has no statutory authority over operational forces of any kind. That means that he is not in a position to order anyone in the Armed Forces to say or do anything. He can't do it.

He is preeminently the senior military adviser to the President. That's what he is.

So in theory, before he would make such a phone call, he would discuss the subject of the phone call with the President, the Commander-in-Chief. He certainly would not do something without coordinating with the National Security adviser and the Secretary of State because this is beyond Defense. This is a foreign policy statement that he is making. These are important things to understand.

The third thing and this is --

CARLSON: And so if that is true, if this account is correct, I mean this is -- from a layman's perspective, it looks and sounds like a grave offense.

MACGREGOR: Yes. He has violated the law if this turns out to be true. We really need to hear from him. Congress needs to bring him over. He needs to be placed under oath and he needs to answer questions in front of the Senate about this entire affair. He needs to be very straightforward.

They then will have to determine whether or not the law has been broken, but from our standpoint, knowing what we do about who has the authority to do what and where he fits in within the broad scheme of things, this is wrong.

Remember, the President is not able to act independently and launch a nuclear weapon. He has a consultative process. People who are members of a standing committee with whom this is discussed. This chain of command that runs through the Secretary of Defense and from the Secretary of Defense to Strategic Command, StratCom has nothing to do with General Milley.

Now, General Milley as an adviser can speak up and suggest what they should or shouldn't do, but I think there's something else here that people need to understand. If General Milley feels as strongly as he apparently does according to this description about President Trump, he has, at any time the right to resign his position as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and simply say, "I cannot be part of this." Without prejudice.

That doesn't mean he has to leave the Armed Forces, it just means he leaves this position and someone else can be brought in to fill it. That's what you do if you feel strongly that you're dealing with someone you cannot support.

CARLSON: Well, Milley, I'll just make this call because it's very obvious. He is a dishonorable man. We know that from his testimony before Congress. I think it's very clear.

On the other hand, you know, we know for a fact that he was speaking in his capacity, I guess, as a part of political partisan to the leaders of the other party.

MACGREGOR: Yes. That is true.

CARLSON: Colluding against Trump on a political and a partisan level.

MACGREGOR: He made it very clear on numerous occasions that he was talking directly to the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi and Senator Chuck Schumer reassuring them that he quote-unquote "was in control of things in The Pentagon." There are plenty of people that saw that including the Acting Secretary of Defense. That's unfortunate --

CARLSON: That seems so corrupt.

MACGREGOR: Well, it seems corrupt and again, this sort of suggests to me this is another windsock. This man blows with the wind.

Clearly, the wind was moving left and he was cultivating his bosses. That much I can accept without hesitation. It is just the entire narrative, I would like to have that examined and explored under oath in the right setting.

CARLSON: I've got to say, maybe the most profound casualty here is the faith that people have that our system works and that their views are represented in the way the country is run, that's the most basic promise of democracy, and it seems time and again that we are learning in these details that the opinions of the people who live here and pay for it all have no bearing on anything.

MACGREGOR: Look, I think it's very clear that the American people are not represented widely in Washington, D.C. It's occupied territory.

Ralph Nader used to call Washington occupied territory. It was occupied by corporations. It's occupied and controlled by donors.

So the American people aren't asked very much of anything, about anything, whether it's immigration, going to war, intervening somewhere militarily. None of those things are done, so we know that that's already a huge problem.

I just want to make one point very clear though.

CARLSON: Yes.

MACGREGOR: President Trump is not someone who is prepared to launch a nuclear strike out of the blue against anyone. That's absurd nonsense.

CARLSON: Right. The whole thing is BS. Actually Trump was the first President since Jimmy Carter who didn't launch a war, so right, yes. The whole thing is a lie. A lot of things are lies we're learning.

Doug Macgregor, thank you.

MACGREGOR: Yes, sir.

CARLSON: Well out of nowhere, we told you last night, a rap star called Nicki Minaj just became a huge problem for the Democratic Party. She represents a lot of Democratic voters, but she wasn't going along with the propaganda on COVID and the vaccines. That story has accelerated. We'll tell you how, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Well, if you've been awake at any point over the past 24 hours, you've probably seen the picture of Sandy Cortez showing up at a $30,000.00 a head gala in New York wearing a dress that says "Tax the rich" across the back. So Cortez claims she wore the outfit to start a conversation about what it means to be a quote "working class woman of color" and not at all so you would stare at a picture of her butt. That's her view.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you seen the back?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, may I?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has a message.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No oh my God, "Tax the rich." What a model.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): When Aurora and I were first kind of partnered, we really started having a conversation about what it means to be working class women of color at the Met, and you know while the Met is known for its spectacle, we should have a conversation about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: She's so dumb and so annoying, but also kind of clever and she is baiting us here, obviously and it is tempting to rise to the debate. Working class? Right?

Sandy Cortez grew up in an affluent suburb very far from the Bronx. Her dad ran an architectural firm. She went to BU. Like so many vapid rich girls, her primary interests are wearing trendy clothes and talking about herself.

Working class? Please. Sandy Cortez is a paid defender of entrenched power. We could go on and on and on. On the other hand, if we did go on, we'd merely be feeding her narcissism so tonight, we're going to pass. That's it. No more Sandy Cortez talk.

Instead we're going to focus on the story of another female pop star who suddenly joined our national political debate and that would be rapper, Nicki Minaj. She entered the conversation abruptly with this tweet yesterday quote: "My cousin in Trinidad won't get the vaccine because his friend got it and became impotent," she wrote. "His testicles became swollen. His friend was weeks away from getting married. Now, the girl called off the wedding. So just pray on it and make sure you're comfortable with your decision, not bullied."

Now two things about that tweet. Last night we read it, we put the graphic on the screen and we suggested that Nicki Minaj's cousin, he is the one with the swollen testicles in Trinidad and we were wrong and we want to admit it we, henceforth correct the record.

Nicki Minaj's cousin's testicles are not swollen as far as we know, he is fine. It's Nicki Minaj's cousin's friend's testicles who are swollen from taking the vax. That's the claim. But this has not anything to do with the physical effect of the vaccine that makes our political class mad, it's the last part of Nicki Minaj's tweet that enrages them, the part where she says, "You should pray on it," make the decision yourself like a free human being and quote, "Don't be bullied."

So our media and public health officials didn't like this because they make their livings bullying people, so they couldn't let it stand. So the crazed race lady over at MSNBC told Nicki Minaj to shut up immediately.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: People like Nicki Minaj, I have to say this, you have a platform, sister that is 22 million followers, okay? I have two million followers, you have 22 million followers on Twitter.

For you to use your platform to encourage our community to not protect themselves and save their lives, my God, sister, you could do better than that.

For you to use your platform to put people in the position of dying from a disease they don't have to die from, oh my God, as a fan, as a hip-hop fan, as somebody who is your fan, I'm so sad that you did that. So sad that you did that, sister.

Oh my God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: You've got to love that. A lady from Denver who went to Harvard, fake urban accent, she sounds like Obama's sister. But the most amusing part is that woman's position on vaccines, which is how to put it changed a little bit from a year ago. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just don't know how effective or what the adverse events will be. If we have a better idea in December, every vaccine takes 15 to 20 years, so for us to just ram this through less than a year, I'm not -- I'm not surprised by the public's skepticism to be honest, Joy.

REID: Yes, yes. They are wise. It's wise skepticism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: They're wise to be skeptical. Don't take the vax, it'll swell your testicles and your fiance will leave you.

That's what she was saying last year. In September of last year, she tweeted this, quote: "Who on god's earth would trust a vaccine approved by the F.D.A.?" She put that on Twitter, it's still there and Nicki Minaj, she is a rapper and everything, but she is not stupid and she noticed.

So she sent out a remarkable tweet against that MSNBC host, which unfortunately was so accurate, we cannot read it on the air because it's too over the top, but it's hilarious, but there's something much deeper going on underneath all of this.

The Democratic Party's most vivid nightmare is that they won't be able to control their own voters, that some rapper will use their talking points from a year ago, that some celebrity will tell black people the vaccine actually makes you impotent. And now it's happened, and it's actually a problem for them because Nicki Minaj's audience doesn't watch FOX, they're not diesel mechanics in rural Georgia, they're the Democratic Party's base.

They don't care what NBC News thinks or CNN, they believe Nicki Minaj. So, this is a massive threat to the industrial lying machine that controls our national conversation. African-Americans already have the lowest vaccination rate of any demographic group in the country, they never tell you that, but it's true, you can look it up. Forty percent of black Americans have been fully vaccinated.

Now, they have someone speaking for them, and it's Nicki Minaj, and by the way, she is an actual working class woman of color. She really did grow up in Queens unlike Sandy Cortez. She did not major in international relations at BU, she didn't even go to college. At 19, she was working at Red Lobster.

So the question is, as one working class woman of color to another, is Sandy Cortez supporting Nicki Minaj? Of course she isn't. She is not on the side of people who worked at Red Lobster and actually grew up in Queens. She doesn't care if Nicki Minaj's cousin's friend's testicles are enlarged and his fiancee left.

She has more important people to impress and last night she did. You know who she doesn't impress, honestly is Candace Owens who is the host of "Candace." We're grateful to have her on tonight.

Candace Owens, thanks so much for coming on. I love -- first of all, I love this story and I'm not taking a position on you know the private parts of Nicki Minaj's cousin's friend in Trinidad, but Nicki Minaj is like one of the few people who can speak outside the filter. Twitter didn't even take her tweet down. She is not Alex Berenson, she's a rapper.

So it's amazing to see them panic in the face of unfettered speech.

CANDACE OWENS, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, absolutely. There's two things going on here. First and foremost, Nicki Minaj accidentally stumbled upon the Ministry of Truth. You know, you're not allowed to question anything from the Ministry of Truth and she is actually showing her fans in real time what we have been saying for a very long time, that there are people that are controlling what you're allowed to say, what you're not allowed to say, and if you say something that they don't want you to say, they will make a concerted effort to take you down.

Now, Nicki Minaj is talking about one person's experience of the vaccine. Who knows? Tucker, we could we could both eat peanuts in a room full of children, we might all be fine, and one child might drop dead from anaphylactic shock, right? This is how the world works. We're all different, our bodies are different.

This is no way saying -- she never said don't get the vaccine because of this. She is saying, take your time, learn more. We don't really know a lot about this. That should be okay if scientific debate was allowed in the Ministry of Truth, that would be okay, but it's not allowed, right?

And they're actually making a very dangerous mistake because people like Nicki Minaj, right, they know that she is not a part of the political class. They know that she is actually a person as you mentioned before that has worked hard, has come from nothing and she is just honestly having a conversation with them like she always does through her music.

So they're actually playing a dangerous game that will likely create A, more vaccine hesitancy than before, because you're taking down someone that they love for no reason. She is not against the vaccine in any other -- in any manner whatsoever.

And you know, on the other hand of this, you know I think that they're exposing themselves to be what they are again, the Ministry of Truth.

CARLSON: My total knowledge of Nicki Minaj is right around zero, in that range, so you know, I have no idea what Nicki Minaj thinks of anything else. But I know when someone is not intimidated and this woman is not intimidated and the MSNBC lady is like shut up and know your place, please, I went to Harvard, I think he worked at Real Lobster.

And Nicki Minaj was like, what? And went completely crazy on her and it's just so interesting.

OWENS: I'd love to see it.

CARLSON: To see someone who is not afraid in America, there are still a few. I guess, it's left to a rapper from Queens, but good for her.

OWENS: Right, it is good for her, and you know these are the people by the way that when they're running, they go around and they get them to endorse them, right? They go around to Cardi B, they go around Nicki Minaj and they try to get them to speak on behalf of them and Nicki Minaj is not playing that game with them.

And now people are seeing in real time what these elitists actually think of them. Look at the way they spoke down to her. She is stupid. The headlines were insane. You know, the headline is like, she is so dumb she thinks that it's going to make your testicles fall off. Whatever they said, complete lies by the way.

Denigrating her, denigrating her because at the end of the day what they actually think, the Democrats, is that these people are stupid. They like to come around every four years for the votes, but at the end of the day, they think Nicki Minaj and all rappers are very stupid and Nicki Minaj right now is proving them otherwise. She is not afraid.

CARLSON: No, she is definitely not afraid. She is a savage, actually.

I'm not on Twitter. I don't even want to get on Twitter. It was just so good.

So, I mean you could actually -- and I'm not -- you know, it's not even about whether the vaccine works or it's good for you or her cousin's friend's testicles it's about whether you have dominion over your own body, whether you're a free person, whether you're a citizen and a human being and you've got to kind of wonder if people like this standing up might awaken others that you know, I don't have to be pushed around, actually.

OWENS: Right, and that's what it really is comes down to. This is about body autonomy. No matter what side of the aisle you're on. I personally believe from the bottom of my heart that more people will get the vaccine if they just had an honest conversation.

There is so much gaslighting going on, especially people that have already gotten the vaccine, right? People have gotten the vaccine and say, oh you know, it made my arm itch and they're going, you're a liar, okay. Or to Nicki Minaj, you're a liar. That never happened. How dare you say that?

These people are on your side, vaccine industry. You're gaslighting people that actually listen to you. Why don't you just have a meaningful conversation and say you know what, this might be where, maybe it has happened, but you're going to be just fine. They won't do that and that is why people do not trust them at this moment.

CARLSON: It's totally true. There are about eight people in the whole country who are against all vaccines. No one is against vaccines, they just don't want to be lied to or bullied. They do want to prey on it and make their own decisions.

Nicki Minaj is right about that whatever the condition of her cousin's friend's genitals are.

OWENS: Totally agree.

CARLSON: I appreciate you're coming on tonight, Candace Owens. Thank you.

OWENS: Thank you.

CARLSON: Thank you.

James Craig is the former Police Chief of Detroit, one of the good ones. He made a big announcement today, then chaos broke. He will tell us what happened, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Before we get to the next segment, we haven't been able to figure out whether out whether this show is broadcast in Trinidad, but if Nicki Minaj's cousin's friend is watching or his former fiance is watching, we want to hear your story. We'll come to Port of Spain to see you. Let us know.

James Craig, meanwhile, is the former Police Chief of Detroit. He just announced say that he is running to be the next Governor of the State of Michigan, a state that badly needs a new Governor. Violent crime has spiked throughout Michigan all year. Police officers are resigning in droves.

How lawless is Michigan? Well, James Craig tried to announce today, but he couldn't because protesters shut it down

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: (Chanting "Hey, hey, James Craig has got to go.")

JAMES CRAIG, FORMER POLICE CHIEF OF DETROIT, MICHIGAN: All right, all right, all right.

CROWD: (Chanting "Hey, hey, James Craig has got to go.")

CRAIG: I'm running for Governor for the State of Michigan. I am running for Governor for the State of Michigan.

CROWD: (Chanting "Hey, hey, James Craig has got to go.")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: That's our democracy. James Craig joins us tonight. Chief, thanks so much for coming on. What do you think? Who were those people? What was that about?

CRAIG: Thank you, Tucker. Oh I know them very well, Tucker. I know them very well, the Summer of Love 2020. They made home to Detroit. They were disruptive. No surprises there.

I've got to tell you, they want to silence me. I told them they wanted me to leave Detroit last year. I said most of you need to leave. These folks are from outside the city and they come in here and they're not -- they're not speaking for anybody in the city.

But I've got to tell you, what they did today, not a big deal because most Michiganders are sick and tired of that madness. They saw what happened last year. We won last year, so the reason why there's so much hate for me by this group is because I know several members, because we won last year and guess what? They couldn't silence us today.

So guess what, Michigan, Michigan is saying we support James Craig and they've gone to chiefjamescraig.com because they believe in the leadership and they want change.

But you know what, tucker, was even more troubling? So we pulled a permit. We wanted to do this in a state park, Belle Isle, a state park.

CARLSON: Yes.

CRAIG: We notified the local law enforcement agency who assured us -- assured my staff that we know about the protesters, we will be there. Guess what, Tucker? No show.

And when they did show, it was -- well, we don't know what to do basically, and they left -- left -- and as you saw the video, it became very tense. So you know what? We need to hold Governor Whitmer accountable for this.

She oversees the Michigan State Police and Department of Resources that covers the island. I know this is not accidental. This is not accidental.

CARLSON: This didn't look like an organic ground swell of political fervor from the City of Detroit. I mean, just kind of you know eyeballing it there. What was their complaint? I'm waiting for them to call you a white supremacist, but what was their specific -- there was a sign with the F- word on it. What are they so mad at you about? Do you know?

CRAIG: Right. They lost last year. They wanted to incite riotous behavior in Detroit unlike the many cities you've heard me talk about, I'm talking about my old home of LA, Chicago, Portland, Seattle -- they couldn't get it done and I took a strong stand with them. We're not retreating here in Detroit.

You're not going to burn Detroit and we won because Detroiters, good Detroiters said it's not going to happen in our city, so they lost and they lost again today.

Okay, they drowned me out. I went to another undisclosed location that they found out about, of course, but I was able to get the message out. We will not be silenced. Michiganders have said, we want Chief Craig and we're going to go to Chief Craig -- chiefjamescraig.com because we need leadership.

CARLSON: If they don't like what your views are, they should explain why their views are better, but shouting you down, it's an ugly business. Good luck.

Chief James Craig, appreciate it.

CRAIG: Thank you so much, Tucker. Appreciate you. Okay. Bye now.

CARLSON: Thank you. Well one neighborhood in a major American city has come up with a solution to rising crime. They are planning to secede and hire their own police. Some people don't want that to happen because other cities might do the same and it might work that's next.

Right now on tuckercarlson.com, there are still signed copies of "The Long Slide." You can go there. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Buckhead is a neighborhood in the northern part of the city of Atlanta Georgia. It used to be one of the nicest places in the country. Beautiful. Placid, nice people from all over the country. It is being destroyed by the terrible management of the City of Atlanta. Mostly by crime. Violent crime is spiking in Buckhead. Locals don't to go the mall because there are too many shootings there.

Joggers have been shot on the street for no reason.

So this summer, in desperation, residents of Buckhead began considering a solution, secede from the City of Atlanta. If this works, it could be a model for a lot of places in this country that are being mismanaged to death by the lunatics that run them.

Now Valdosta University has completed something called a feasibility study on that plan to secede. The study found that Buckhead will thrive if it splits from Atlanta, but of course, you knew that. Atlanta needs Buckhead. Buckhead does not need Atlanta and that's true of a lot of places. If they are wrecking your town, leave.

Bill White is the CEO and Chairman of the Buckhead City Committee. He joins us tonight. Bill, thanks so much for coming on. Are you getting closer and again, this is not just a local interest story, this is of interest to a lot of people around the country who are being really, really hurt by the crazed management of their woke leaders.

Do you think this could actually happen?

BILL WHITE, CEO AND CHAIRMAN, BUCKHEAD CITY COMMITTEE: Yes, sir. And I want to thank you, Tucker. First, thanks to the Valdosta University for showing that we are 100 percent feasible. We are only going to be taking approximately 10 percent or less of the Atlanta's overall operating budget and with that money that we will now have control over, we'll be able to hire 250 police officers. There'll be the highest paid police officers in the State of Georgia.

They'll all have their own car. They'll get a stipend to live in Buckhead, and we're finally going to get the crime under control.

We also are left in this study, Tucker, with a $100 million surplus, and that is very interesting because what we go to right away is where is all the money been going that we've been sending to Atlanta for the last 20 years? It's billions of dollars to a corrupt bloated bureaucracy. And I think that people are fed up.

So I think our bills which are sponsored by Senator Brandon Beach, and Representative Todd Jones; leadership Speaker David Ralston and Chairman Darlene Taylor, the Georgia legislature are a bunch of courageous, wonderful human beings that are going to give us the right to vote.

I can't wait for the voter rights groups to suppress our right to vote, right. I can't believe they're doing it, but the lobbyists that Atlanta is using our taxpayer dollars to attack us for the right to vote our, taxpayer dollars, they're spending against us, millions of dollars. And their message is very fearmongering.

We just want to get crime under control. We want to pave our streets. We want our garbage picked up and get back to normal.

CARLSON: Yes, we don't have to live like this. Nobody in America should have to live like this. You owe them nothing. They hate you and they act like it and I hope you leave immediately. That'll be a lesson to the rest of the country.

Bill White. I appreciate your coming on tonight. Thank you.

WHITE: Hey, Tucker, if I can ask everybody to go to BECnow.com and read the feasibility study. It's an eye opener.

CARLSON: Everybody knows you would thrive. They need you and they hate you anyway. It's disgusting. And it's very lovely.

WHITE: We love you, Tucker.

CARLSON: Thank you so much.

WHITE: Thank you, sir.

CARLSON: We had a kind of unexpectedly fascinating conversation with the actress Rose McGowan. She told us how many of the most powerful people in this country helped protect Harvey Weinstein and that changed your view of everything that includes even Amazon and its founder, Jeff Bezos. Here's part of that conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSE MCGOWAN, ACTRESS: Weinstein was going to go bankrupt and if he truly had gone bankrupt, I would have just left it there, maybe, I was thinking about that.

But he didn't, because Roy Price and Amazon Studios came in to save him. It turns out, they bought my script to see -- at Weinstein's behest -- to see if I had written anything about him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: The full conversation with Rose McGowan is on "Tucker Carlson Today" and it's out tomorrow afternoon on foxnation.com.

So finally, polls are about to close in the California recall election. Voters have a chance to oust their incompetent Governor, Gavin Newsom. We're going to have some updates for you straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: The California recall is here. Polls in the state are closing shortly. If you're watching this show you probably think California is crazy, but it still matters. It's our biggest state.

So on this day, which is an important day, not just in the history of California, but in the history of the country, we thought we'd speak to someone with deep roots. Victor Davis Hanson's family homesteaded their land in the Central Valley of California in 1871. He now lives in the house that his great grandparents built there.

He's a fellow at the Hoover Institution and he joins us on set to assess what this means. Professor, thanks so much for coming on.

VICTOR DAVIS HANSON, SENIOR FELLOW, HOOVER INSTITUTION: Thank you.

CARLSON: So, why is this significant? This recall?

HANSON: Well, first of all, everybody seems to think California is a warning of what we're all going to become. So we have Gavin Newsom who is not running on his record. He's not saying I took care of 16 million dead trees to prevent forest fires or I'll build another 10 million acre feet of water storage to survive this drought or I've solved the homeless.

It's Donald Trump, Donald Trump and Larry Elder is a lieutenant in the army of Donald Trump. That's all that he is running on, the opposition and it's a racialized campaign, it's very surreal that so-called liberal elites have been attacking in "The Los Angeles Times" and then on the street, Larry Elder on the basis of his race. It's really retrograde scary, and that's new.

I mean, I haven't seen that in a campaign.

CARLSON: So Larry Elder, for our viewers who are just tuning in is black.

HANSON: Yes.

CARLSON: And yet he was denounced by a columnist at "The LA Times" who is not black as a white supremacist.

HANSON: He was, and if you and I dreamed up, Tucker, a way, that would be the most racist expression possible, we would have somebody wear a gorilla mask and on the street, run up and throw an egg at him, and then face no consequences, either cultural in the media or legal, a hate crime. That's what we're dealing with in California.

CARLSON: So it seems like you're describing a campaign that's not -- it is the Governor's attempt to keep his job, it is not about anything. He's not no telling you I've made your life better or I've improved the state. It's purely an attempt to hold on to power for its own sake, it sounds like.

HANSON: Absolutely. He is saying that we have 60 percent of a Democratic liberal constituency, I have it right here. I've inherited this job as a Bay Area elite. I'm one of the Pelosi, the Feinstein, the Silicon Valley anointed and this is my right and I don't really have to stoop down and tell you what I've done for you, because he hasn't done anything except have this very strange calculus where we have the highest income -- basket of income, you know, sales taxes, gas taxes, and yet we have some of the worst roads, infrastructure, and schools in the nation.

The more money that we give up to the government of California, the worse the infrastructure and social services become.

CARLSON: I hate to break down elections into demographic groups because I hate that way of looking at the world. But that is the way politics is run now.

HANSON: Yes.

CARLSON: And I can't help but notice in the polling on this, Gavin Newsom, who is the voice of Hispanic California, according to Gavin Newsom is pretty unpopular with a lot of his Hispanic voters.

HANSON: In the central valley, a lot of people of Mexican descent, Mexican Americans, they find him arrogant and they find him hypocritical. The French Laundry mess where he ate and violated his own instructions for the rest of us to wear a mask or orders, I should say, and then he put his kids in prep school that were kept open while he was shutting down schools where people in the middle and lower classes had to get off work, and lose their jobs to take care of their children despite low incidences of COVID in those particular areas at that time.

But there was this attitude that he was entitled. And I think that rubs people of all different ethnic groups is something that's wrong. And so we saw with Prop 16, two years ago, a ballot -- an initiative to restore affirmative action that was soundly defeated. There is some hope that a lot of people, especially Latino voters may not really poll what they're going to do. In other words, they feel that he is out of sync with their values, or their attitudes and they want somebody who is subject to the same consequences of his ideology as everybody else is.

CARLSON: And everybody should be.

HANSON: Of course.

CARLSON: I should say that, Victor Davis Hanson is in the studio because we just did an hour long interview for "Tucker Carlson Today," which we're going to air at some point, which was amazing.

HANSON: Thank you.

CARLSON: It was great to see you.

HANSON: Thank you.

CARLSON: Thank you.

HANSON: Thank you for having me.

CARLSON: Sad news to end the show tonight, comedian Norm MacDonald died today from cancer in Los Angeles. He was 61 years old. MacDonald of course, is most famous for his time on "Saturday Night Live." He performed there for five years in the 1990s and did a remarkable job.

In the end, though he was fired. His crime was telling jokes about OJ Simpson. OJ Simpson was personally very close to the President of NBC at the time. Norm MacDonald knew this very well. He told the jokes anyway, and he got canned for it.

You often hear professional comedians talk about the importance of integrity and truth. We're truth tellers, they'll tell you, in fact, most of them are as craven and cowardly as anyone else in the entertainment business. It's about their careers, and that's all it's about.

But Norm MacDonald was an exception to that. He really was as honest as he seemed to be. He was as talented and insightful as he seemed to be as well.

He was a good man. Norm MacDonald, rest in peace.

That's about it for us tonight. By the way, you are not going to want to miss our conversation with Rose McGowan. It is on "Tucker Carlson Today" tomorrow starting at 4:00 p.m. Eastern on foxnation.com.

Of course, tune in every night, 8:00 p.m. The show that is the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity, smugness, and groupthink.

Have a happy evening in spite of the chaos, there are still wonderful people in this country, the very best.

9:00 p.m. Eastern, that means it's time for Sean Hannity. Good to see you, Sean.

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