Tucker: Rep. Omar thinks there's little difference between US and Al Qaeda

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Tucker: Rep. Omar thinks there's little difference between US and Al Qaeda

Freshman Rep. Ilhan Omar says Muslims are mistreated in America; Democrats claiming Trump is inciting violence against Omar.

This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," April 15, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Good evening and welcome to "Tucker Carlson Tonight."

It was a horrifying scene in Paris today, an island in the middle of the Seine where Notre Dame Cathedral sits and has for 850 years, a living symbol of Christianity, of France, of Western civilization itself -- all but melted down, its steeple toppling on live television. There you have the pictures.

The final damage is still being assessed tonight, but it looks to be a near total loss. The interior of the Cathedral famously called "The Forest," 800-year-old timbers ignited like a tinderbox. Trace Gallagher has been on this story all day and he joins us tonight in studio.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And the reason they call it "The Forest," Tucker is because 52 acres of timber, some eight or nine hundred years ago, that's what it took to actually build this thing, 800 years ago and the timber of course has been drying for that long so when this thing went up it was a tinderbox for all intents and purposes.

It happened a little after 6:00 p.m., right, we're talking about Paris time, a little after six, you could see some of the smoke coming up out of the Cathedral and people were wondering what the smoke was and then minutes later, you look at the pictures, you could see the flames, you could see the smoke had gotten much darker. The firefighters say they were actually there as soon as the workers -- because they're now in the process of renovating or they were in the process of renovating this fire -- the workers were there and the firefighters were trying to bring them out.

But the problem was, there were no resources which is odd because the people who were on the scene said it was unbelievable that you had this thing burning and you see that Notre Dame is actually on an island and there's a river that runs right by the back of the property, so the wonderment was why wasn't there any water being pushed or being pumped on this thing and for some reason, for 30 or 40 minutes, they struggled to be able to get some water on this.

They actually considered using helicopters like we see in wildfires out west to dump on there, but the concern then would be would it be enough water to put the fire out and would it do more damage. They also thought about bringing in these tankers which we also see in firefights out west, but the question is that's not an exact science and then you run the risk of having these big tankers come through and dropping this water and doing damage to not only the buildings, but maybe some of the people who were around there.

So by the time they got there, all this would -- the entire Cathedral was going down and they were saying later, they had no idea if they were going to be able to put the fire out, period -- Tucker.

CARLSON: And to be clear, it's a loss. We don't build things like Notre Dame Cathedral anymore, we can't, and so this is the elimination of a finite number of places like this. So the two things that -- just to be clear from your report, the two things at this hour that we really don't know and maybe we should is how did this happen exactly.

GALLAGHER: Right.

CARLSON: There's some speculation but we don't actually know if that's right.

GALLAGHER: We don't.

CARLSON: And we're not really sure why -- we always want to give firefighters the benefit of every doubt -- but we don't know why the response seemed delayed, do we?

GALLAGHER: And the firefighters are pushing back saying they were there. They were there just minutes after that and witnesses have now said, yes, they were in fact on scene trying to get people out. What we don't know was, why weren't the resources there?

CARLSON: Right.

GALLAGHER: Why didn't they have the trucks? Why didn't have the tankers? Why didn't they have the water from the Seine that was being pumped on this? We don't know. What we do know is that there was renovation going on up top. We know there was construction in that very area where the fire started. We don't know if that was the cause at all, but we know that one could potentially lead to the other.

We also know that if you look at these pictures now, inside, you're talking about -- if you've ever been inside this amazing structure, you've got seventy six of those paintings. They're four feet tall.

CARLSON: Yes.

GALLAGHER: They're everywhere in the ceilings. You have the rose windows which are magnificent in their own right. Those are gone. The organ is gone. And now the concern is, we lost the artwork. We lost the organ. We lost a lot of the heritage. Did we also lose the artifacts? And by that, we mean, did they lose the things that were in the vaults below? Meaning, not only the architectural plans of the cathedral itself, but also some of the early architectural plans of the City of Paris.

CARLSON: Of the City of Paris.

GALLAGHER: They were locked in there and that's the question now, is how much of the heritage did they actually lose in this fire because it really was devastating, and devastating for Catholics because it's Good Friday. It's Easter Sunday. The two holiest days on the Christian calendar. Dozens -- I'm sorry hundreds of thousands would have celebrated Mass this weekend.

CARLSON: Right. Trace Gallagher, thank you very much for that.

GALLAGHER: Sure.

CARLSON: Well the fire you've just been watching is in some ways a metaphor maybe for the broader decline of Christianity in Europe. That decline has been swift and full of unintended consequences. Mark Steyn has been studying this question for more than 30 years and we're glad to have him with us tonight. Mark, thanks a lot for coming on.

There's so many things to say about this, but the one I can't get out of my mind is we haven't built anything like Notre Dame Cathedral in the West in so long. We don't build things that are beautiful anymore, maybe almost by design. Will there ever be anything built like that ever again?

MARK STEYN, AUTHOR AND COLUMNIST: I think we've lost the knack. Notre Dame is about a 10-minute walk from the Pompidou Center named for the late President Pompidou and it is -- that is one of the like almost every modern building in Paris, that is one of the ugliest things you've ever seen and when you go back eight and a half centuries to the time when this building began construction, it took a century for the for the first part of it to be completed.

The men who set to work on this knew that they would not see it finished in their lifetime, but their sense of a transcendent meaning to life was so strong that the idea of building the most beautiful buildings to the glory of God, they took naturally in a way that we don't anymore.

CARLSON: Well, and that of course I think is the reason that they built buildings like Notre Dame in the first place because they were building it not just for their own amusement, but to glorify God.

So this is not -- and we want to be clear -- speculating about the cause of this fire though you know it happened as Trace Gallagher just noted at beginning of Holy Week and it is not the only Church that has caught fire in France in the last year or it would seem quite a few desecrations of churches; again, not saying this is one of them, but give us a sense of the scale of what's been happening.

STEYN: Well Christendom is in retreat in Europe and in France particularly, France has actually quite an aggressive belief in secularism and according to some polls, the French even by the standards of the modern Western world among the most godless people in that sense.

Three years ago in that terrible summer that began with the Nice truck killings when it seemed as if the entire French state was unraveling, I went to Rouen Cathedral for the funeral of Father Hamel, the French priest who had his throat cut at mass, and I then went to the Basilica of Saint Denis which is in the north of Paris where the French Kings are buried and basically is a Christian Museum in the heart of what is now a Muslim suburb in effect.

There's no sense of Christianity outside the walls of that Cathedral and it was after that that I went to then Notre Dame because you do have the sense that a living breathing faith is just becoming actually a museum, an art gallery, a storage facility and the French who were on the streets in tears this evening, on the streets of Paris, they're not mourning -- I don't think they're mourning just history or architecture or art or culture. They're mourning something else but what that's something else post- Christian France can't quite identify it and that's really the conundrum when Monsieur Macron says, "Oh we're going to rebuild it." Rebuild it for what?

CARLSON: Right, that's right.

STEYN: When people talk about, "Oh, the heart of France has died." What is in the soul of France? What is this is? It just a building or is it something more?

CARLSON: What's so interesting about Notre Dame specifically as you well know is that it was de-sanctified, de-Christianized during the French Revolution for a time and was made a secular temple, but then it immediately reverted to what it always was, which was a Christian holy place. Well, do you think there's any hope that something like that will happen again in France?

STEYN: Well, you never know how these things will go. I mean everyone knows the hunchback of Notre Dame, the Victor Hugo novel, which actually did quite a lot to restore the importance of Notre Dame in the minds of the French people, but Michel Houellebecq, a controversial novelist, he wrote a novel called "Submission," which posits that France elects a Muslim President and he knows -- the central character knows this is going to mean something and he actually makes a conscious effort to try and recover his lost Catholic faith and that character goes on the kind of pilgrimage and he is moved by it as music and he is moved by it as ritual.

But he can't quite make the final step and reconnect with God and the Catholic faith and that scene in that book is in a certain sense the question raised by this fire tonight. Is it a hole in the soul or is it just a missing building burned to the ground?

CARLSON: It hasn't made it a better society, the death of Christianity, I will say.

STEYN: No, it has not.

CARLSON: I don't think anyone could argue that.

STEYN: No, you have to believe in something.

CARLSON: Mark Steyn, thank you.

STEYN: Thanks a lot, Tucker.

CARLSON: You have to believe in something. Totally. Good to see you. Well, just three days from now, the wait will finally be over. The Department of Justice announced today that the Mueller report will in fact be released to the rest of us this Thursday. It's been three weeks since the Attorney General William Barr released his first summary of the report that exonerated the President and his staff from claims that they colluded with the government of Vladimir Putin.

Since then, some diehard conspiracy nuts have suggested that Barr lied in his summary because he's in on it, too, trying to help Vladimir Putin waiting for his vodka payment even now, apparently. So, we're going to find out very soon whether they were right or not. We're going to have the complete report the moment it drops with the exception of the redactions, and if those people were wrong, do you think they'll apologize? We're going to ask them to.

Up next, for years Democrats said that Americans should welcome every migrant -- legal or illegal -- but since President Trump offered to grant them their wish, they've been strangely unexcited about it. What is going on? We'll tell you after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: So former Obama adviser, Valerie Jarrett has a new book out. If you didn't know that, you're not alone. Nobody knew that. Nobody cares. The book is called, "Finding My Voice," and we're not being mean, just honest it's not even in the top 1,000 on Amazon or Barnes and Noble. It has almost no reviews. I think four reviews.

So it's not selling any copies and yet here's the amazing part, the "New York Times" put it 14th on the bestseller list, so a book that sold no copies made the "New York Times" bestseller list. So a book industry insiders spoke to "The Daily Caller" News Foundation and described that as quote, "inconceivable." So inconceivable in fact that there's only one explanation for it -- fraud.

It turns out there are private companies that will buy an author's book in bulk for a fee in order to guarantee bestseller status. We're not saying that happened, we're just strongly suggesting that it must have happened. Until now Jarrett's accomplishment in life was being friends with Barack and Michelle Obama, but now she has a new fake achievement -- best-selling author. Congrats.

Well for years, Democratic leaders have fought against securing the border. They passed sanctuary city laws. They made it clear that in their view, there are only two kinds of people in the world -- the defective Americans who already live here -- you and me; and the superior future Americans who inhabit the rest of the planet, but should be allowed to come here as swiftly as possible.

If you disagree by the way, you're a bigot. It's as simple as that. This rhetoric worked perfectly for Democrats up until something unexpected happened. The President threatened to agree with them. Last week, he said he was ready to give them exactly what they've been demanding -- illegal immigrants fresh from the border, as many as possible bussed directly to their front doors like a package from their favorite company, Amazon.

You think they'd be thrilled, but they weren't. They were angry. They said Trump was going to dump immigrants on them. Dump like used cars and tires in the woods. In an interview with CBS News, senator and presidential candidate Cory Booker accused the president of something sinister. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I say he's trying to pit Americans against each other and make us less safe because what you're seeing now --

MARGARET BRENNAN, CBS NEWS MODERATOR, FACE THE NATION: So you take the threat seriously?

BOOKER: I take this. He is injecting fear into our country and so if he was looking to solve a problem, he wouldn't be doing things to divide this country against itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Wait a sec -- wait a second to those of you following at home. Did you catch the wording there from Senator Booker who is an actual U.S. senator from New Jersey, who went to Yale Law School, way smarter than you. He says that bringing in illegal immigrants will make us less safe, but that can't be true because he's already told us that illegal immigrants are way more law-abiding than you are. They commit way fewer crimes. Huh?

And how can bringing an immigrants pit Americans against each other if all immigrants do his work hard and grow the economy? It sounds like bigotry talking. Is Senator Booker a bigot? And what about Cher? She used to make some kind of liberal actor/ singer, but now she's tweeting things like this, and this is a real tweet quote, "I understand helping struggling immigrants, but my city of Los Angeles isn't taking care of its own. What about 50,000 plus U.S. citizens who live on the streets, people who live below the poverty line and are hungry. If my state can't take care of its own and many are vets, how can it take care of more?"

Whoa. The virus is spreading. Is Cher a bigot now, too? What's going on? To unravel these mysteries, we're joined by lawyer and former Bill and Hillary Clinton adviser, Richard Goodstein.

Richard, thanks a lot for coming on tonight.

RICHARD GOODSTEIN, FORMER BILL AND HILLARY CLINTON ADVISER: Thanks for having me.

CARLSON: So when Cory Booker says -- and this is sincerely confusing to me --dumping illegal aliens into our cities will make them less safe. How can that be true when we know from him and you and everybody else on the left that they actually make us safer?

GOODSTEIN: So actually, it's the libertarian group, the Cato Center that basically did the research that said that undocumented immigrants commit crimes had a much lower rate than native-born Americans, so you can laugh, but take it up with them, not me or liberals. They're the ones who put that out there.

CARLSON: No, I am not -- I've actually taken it up with them like times, but I'm just interested in Booker like -- and Cher -- I'm not attacking anybody, but if they are less likely to commit crimes and really the core of our economy and if they're the most American among us, then why in the world would you be calling them garbage who make our cities more dangerous as Senator Booker just did?

GOODSTEIN: Yes, he's not calling them garbage. Look, I think that --

CARLSON: Well, dumping them.

GOODSTEIN: The President's signature campaign promise was to have Mexico pay for that wall, which would have kept all this from even being an issue. He failed on that. It's counterproductive. Remember, he mocked people saying, "Oh I want a trip to Disneyland." So what is he doing? He is giving them an all-expenses-paid trip to a great city. They would never even have dreamed of getting there, but --

CARLSON: Wait, but hold on, hold on. For 40 years, we've taken refugees and moved them into rural and poor America, why wouldn't we move them into Pacific Heights in San Francisco? And why don't we move them? No, I'm sincere instead of --

GOODSTEIN: Fine.

CARLSON: Every time they come, they go to the Mahoning Valley or they go to Bethlehem PA or they go to Lewiston, Maine. Why don't we send them into our zip code and into Nantucket? I'm not joking.

GOODSTEIN: Because I think what President Trump is talking about is sending thousands of people with no job, no family connections, no resources and then having them go into a community where they have no roots, no nothing. So of course if you send --

CARLSON: That's what we do now, with millions of people, every decade, you have a totally different country basically. We already do that and no one cares.

GOODSTEIN: If you send 10,000 or 100,000 people from Norway or North Dakota to Pacific Heights, it would be alarming, too, having nothing to do with the color of their skin or whatnot, so I think what Cory Booker says is almost undeniable.

CARLSON: Wait, you're making my argument. Wait. Hold on, wait a second. You're making my argument and God bless you for doing it. I believe what you just said and I agree with it. It's not about race. It's about the pace of change. People can't handle it and why should they have to handle it? I agree with that and people called me a white nationalist for saying that.

But you said the same thing and you're right, but I'm just asking why don't we have the same concern about the rest of the country that is getting this imposed on them and nobody cares? Why don't we care?

GOODSTEIN: The problem, Tucker, is the President tried this in the 2018 campaign about caravans. That didn't work. At Gillespie, as you remember, famously tried it about MS-13 in the run up to his election day and he went from being tied to losing by nine.

This is a tactic the President has tried that day he came down that escalator. He is going to try it on Election Day in 2020 and every day in between and it's unproductive. Politically, it is unproductive.

CARLSON: Maybe it does one thing, but hold on --

GOODSTEIN: And it incentivizes people that come. That's the other problem.

CARLSON: You're right of course, but maybe it makes us more compassionate toward the rest of the country who don't live in the zip codes that we do, coastal affluent zip codes and when they complain about immigration, maybe they're not bigots. Maybe they just want some control over what happens to their town. Do you see what I am saying?

GOODSTEIN: And I think comprehensive immigration reform is essential. That's what the President is trying to accomplish. Go back to the 2013 deal that had Rubio, Lindsey Graham and other pinkos supporting it. That's the basis for it.

CARLSON: This is the -- right. This is not that. Richard, thank you very much.

GOODSTEIN: It's there. Pelosi and Schumer offered him a deal.

CARLSON: You're coming closer to the answer though and I appreciate it.

GOODSTEIN: You've got it.

CARLSON: Well, the State of California is the biggest state in the Union and it has a lot of problems as we've chronicled on this program. San Francisco and Los Angeles have enormous homeless populations, drive-through and you'll see it. Almost one in five Californians today live in poverty, that's the highest rate in the country.

Thousands of middle-class residents fleet every year. Boise is one of the fastest-growing places in the country. Fear not though, the new governor, Gavin Newsom, formerly the mayor of San Francisco is on the case. He is taking an ambitious three-day poverty tour to learn about the struggles of low-income people and what he can do about it. He has always been rich, so he needs to do a little reporting on the subject, but wait. It turns out he is not doing this tour in Skid Row or Stockton or the Central Valley. Instead, he is in Guatemala and El Salvador.

Newsom says he's there to learn about the area's troubles including poverty and crime and to find out what California can do to help. What California can do to help other countries work on their homeless and poverty related issues. Huh. Imagine if he was that focused on his own state, which he's supposed to be running.

Well Democrats and the press are full of a very specific talking point. Criticizing Ilhan Omar is the very same as inciting violence. Look at what they're saying. Also new developments in the college admissions Varsity Blues scandal. A full report. Mike Rowe here respond to it, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: In 1992, Ilhan Omar came to this country from a refugee camp in East Africa -- Kenya. Three years later, she and her family applied for and received refugee status in the United States. Five years after that, she became a U.S. citizen and she's been attacking the United States as a racist hellhole pretty much ever since.

According to Omar, there's barely a difference between this country and terrorist groups like Al Qaeda. In a 2013 interview, Omar complained that people seemed to think there was a big difference between America and Al Qaeda. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. Every time the professor said Al Qaeda, he sort of like -- his shoulders went up and you know --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, raising command, yes.

OMAR: Al Qaeda. You know you don't say America with an intensity. You don't say England with intensity. You know, you don't -- you don't say the Army with intensity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: So she still feels this way. We know because she recently spoke to a group hosted by the Council on American-Islamic Relations, CAIR and while there, the Congresswoman complained that America is bigoted against Muslims. They are second-class citizens, she said. She offered no proof of that. It's an absurd claim.

Muslims live with far greater freedom in America than they do in any Islamic country on the planet, that's why they move here. Millions and millions more would like to join them and you would, too, if you were them. That's why Congresswoman Omar lives here, too and not in Somalia.

In America by the way, she is an elected member of Congress. Could she do that in Saudi Arabia? No. Is she grateful for that? No. She never stops complaining and as part of that complaining, she made this now famous remark about 9/11.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OMAR: CAIR was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people did something and that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil liberties.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: "Some people did something," but we're the real victims here. Omar's understatement attracted plenty of criticism. The "New York Post" ran a cover showing images of the 9/11 attacks, in case you'd forgotten what some people did. Then late last week, the President joined the criticism by tweeting this video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OMAR: CAIR was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people did something --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you have no idea right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, there's been another one. Another plane just hit.

OMAR: Some people did something.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my goodness. There is smoke coming out of Pentagon.

OMAR: Some people did something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: A little over the top? Yes, maybe. If you were Ilhan Omar, you probably wouldn't like that video. People don't like to be criticized. Got it. But would you feel physically threatened by that tweet? Well, not unless you believe that disagreement is the same as violence and as it happens, the left does believe that disagreement is the same as violence or claims to believe that.

All of a sudden everyone on television is telling us that Trump is trying to hurt Ilhan Omar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOY-ANN REID, MSNBC HOST: Many are calling Trump's tweet and that video an incitement to violence against the Congresswoman.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is trying to incite violence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not just incitement to violence.

BETO O'ROURKE (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is an incitement to violence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The goal is inciting violence.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): We are getting to a level where this is an incitement of violence.

REP. RASHIDA TLAIB (D-MI): No question -- is he inciting violence towards Muslims? Not even only Ilhan Omar, but Muslim Americans in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: So Cory Booker who will say literally -- literally anything -- went farther of course. That's his signature move. Whenever everyone else is saying something ridiculous, Booker will triple down on the insanity to pretend to be completely sincere about it.

In this case, Booker was happy to blame Trump for actual terror attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOOKER: Since 9/11, we've had terrorist attacks in this country. The majority of them have been right-wing extremists and the majority of those have been white supremacists attacks from a synagogue in Pittsburgh to a church in South Carolina and these are white supremacist groups that use language as we saw as far away as New Zealand, use our President's language almost as if as a license for these attacks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: I swear in 20 years, every fifth grader will believe 9/11was committed by white supremacists. Totally true. You watched. You heard it here first. They're the real threat. We need to fear and suppress them and that's what Booker is saying and to prove it, he and so many demagogues on the left are forever telling us what the epidemic of hate crimes in this country, but they're lying. There is no epidemic of hate crimes. We checked. We know what the numbers are.

We checked for California, the biggest state, the most liberal state. Here are the number. In 2017, the state of California convicted a total of 65 people of hate crimes, statewide. Sixty five out of a population of almost forty million people. By the way, there were fewer hate crimes in California in 2017 under Trump than there were in 1996 under the Bill Clinton administration. That epidemic is fake. It's propaganda. They're trying to control you with fear.

"Your opinions are violence," that's what they're saying. "Your opinions are violence. Disagreeing with me is assault. For my safety, you must not be allowed to speak." You must obey." That's what they're telling you and you can see why.

Here's where we come in. If we go along with this, if we accede to these demands, it's over. If we let them redefine speech as violence, the First Amendment has no meaning. They can tell you what to say and when to say it. They can use any force necessary to make you be quiet, just as you would do whatever you needed to do and use whatever force was necessary to stop a terror attack because they're saying your opinions and a terror attack are the same thing.

This is a scary argument and we should we should be afraid of it. Dave Rubin hosts the "Rubin Report" on YouTube and he joins us tonight. Dave, thanks so much for coming on. I thought of you immediately when I saw what they're doing. Are people thinking through the implications of, you're criticizing the person, you're committing an act of violence by doing it.

DAVE RUBIN, HOST, RUBIN REPORT: Well, of course, we have to be able to separate criticism of ideas from criticism of people. Specifically, you have to be able to criticize any set of ideas.

So a set of ideas whether, it's a political platform say the Republican platform or the Democratic platform or religious set of ideas whether that's Islam or Judaism or Christianity. By the way, I mean this is what religious scholars have done for years. They rip apart the text and they argue over the meaning of the text. So you have to be able to criticize ideas.

But you know, the main thing I was thinking while you were talking there was that we live in a strange time where the same people who will call you a white supremacist, who will call Donald Trump a Nazi, who will call 47 percent of the country deplorable or racists or the rest of all of those buzzwords that you're always talking about, is that an incitement to violence?

I mean if you use their own logic against them, if they're really fighting against Nazis and Hitler and the rest of it, which is of course patently absurd, then aren't they the ones that are actually inciting violence?

CARLSON: And in fact they are. And let me just say, I've had violence in my house because of them, and yes and they've had a big effect on my life and my family. But I'm not going to whine about it because I think debating the ideas is the most important thing. They use any suggestion -- you know, any disagreement at all, we have to shut down the debate. I guess, that's the difference.

RUBIN: Well, look, if you look back at the last couple of years of the way this thing has tracked and I did tons of videos about this over the last four years. First, it was calling all your political opponents a Nazi, then it was you can punch a Nazi. Now it's we can silence people over incitement, meaning that if you call someone a Nazi, now we can silence them?

I mean what's coming next? Could we jail these people? I mean, you're absolutely right that the First Amendment -- this is all we have left in this fight. You know, I've been traveling the world over the last year and I talk to people about free speech and all of these issues and everyone in Europe -- everyone in Europe is jealous that we still have the First Amendment. They wish they had the First Amendment.

So this is what we must stand for. I'd have to say as someone that lived in New York during 9/11, I was in my early 20s watching the videos of the planes crashing, every time I see it, it's horrific, obviously. But the dismissiveness that Omar went. The way she laughs at it or smiles when she's talking about it or just sort of shifts the way that you should feel about it, it's not about what happened to the people who actually died, it's might happen to her.

CARLSON: Right.

RUBIN: It's so -- it's disgusting really. I mean it really is --

CARLSON: Is it also -- it's a kind of narcissism that is also universal on the left now. It's all about me and my feelings, like I don't know. All of those people died like their kids are orphans, no, but really -- people looked at me funny on the subway because maybe it's not about you, okay, for a second.

RUBIN: Well, I think you're right. I mean, well this is where Ben Shapiro's facts don't care about your feelings. The left has just absorbed that if you feel about anything on any given moment, then that's what's right.

So on the segment you just did prior to this, the idea that Cher now is taking positions that really are the same positions as Donald Trump, it's because the chessboard has been flipped and you can -- you really can get - - I mean that's the thing. You can get them to take any position on almost anything, but this again, this is where --

Man, as someone that came from the left and I can't truly say I'm part of the left anymore, this is what I was trying to stop. We have to be able to talk about these ideas and by the way, don't go into politics if you don't want to be criticized and the way that they send out the memo so they all say "incitement," the exact same time all the politicians.

CARLSON: It's unbelievable.

RUBIN: The MSBNC hosts, come on.

CARLSON: And journalist crying along with this. In our business, you know, toughen up. Stop whining.

RUBIN: I mean, look, it's like wait a minute, you guys calling everybody Hitler and everybody Nazi.

CARLSON: Oh, I know.

RUBIN: This guy right across -- I wouldn't be sitting here if you were a white supremacist. Do you know what I mean? Like that's just the truth.

CARLSON: It's grotesque.

RUBIN: But it's like, is that incitement? Well, somehow I don't think so from my point of view.

CARLSON: It appears to be. Dave Rubin, great to see you, as always. Hollywood celebrities and business elites are spending huge sums of money to get their kids into prestigious schools. Mike Rowe says that attending some of these schools would be a waste of time if it was free. If it didn't cost anything, you still wouldn't go. So what does he think of those parents? He joins us after the break.

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CARLSON: The two actresses caught up in the Varsity Blues college bribery scandal are trying very different strategies. Tonight, Felicity Huffman has pleaded guilty already. Lori Loughlin though is choosing to fight the charges. Trace Gallagher is tracking the developments here -- Trace.

GALLAGHER: It really sounds like Lori Loughlin and her husband, the fashion designer, Mossimo Giannulli really didn't underestimate the serious charges they're facing and now they're underestimating how motivated prosecutors are when they were first charged with bribing their daughters into the University of Southern California by having them designated as recruits of the crew team despite never having competed in the sport.

They were offered a plea deal, but turned it down because it included mandatory jail time. Then they got hit with another charge of money- laundering with a max sentence of 20 years and "People Magazine" is now reporting at that point, Loughlin and Giannulli wanted to negotiate, but prosecutors took the deal off the table, so they had no choice but to plead guilty.

Now that's significant because both charges carry 20 years each. First- time offenders are never going to get 40 years, but experts say it's possible they could get four to six years. Neither Lachlan nor Giannulli have commented on the allegations, but even if this does not go to trial and prosecutors decide to cut an eleventh-hour plea deal, experts say it looks like Loughlin and her husband will serve years, not months.

On the other hand, actress Felicity Huffman who has already pleaded guilty to boosting her daughter's SAT score and expressed remorse is looking at maybe a few months behind bars and now, there are reports that adult students involved in the cheating scandal could also face criminal charges. That's on top of their applications being rejected, potentially being kicked out of school or even having their diplomas revoked.

The legal experts say it's going to be a lot more difficult to prove the students knew their parents were cheating on their behalf, but it gets more interesting as we go along in days, Tucker.

CARLSON: What a story. Trace Gallagher, thank you for that.

GALLAGHER: Sure.

CARLSON: Every year American colleges seem to teach less but charge more. The price of the college degree has been going up faster than inflation for many years, but as the recent Varsity Blues scandal shows, some people willing to spend still more -- thousands even millions more -- to ensure their child gets a seat at a particular University. Why is this?

Mike Rowe has spent years calling out colleges for wasting the time and money of students and their parents. He has got a brand new book coming out called, "The Way I Heard It," which you can pre-order and you should because it's amazing, but in the meantime he joins us in the flesh, Mike Rowe joins us tonight.

Mike Rowe thanks very much for coming on, so what -- I've been wanting for the past two weeks to get your view of this college scandal because it intersects with so many things you've been talking about for so long. What's your view of it?

MIKE ROWE, AUTHOR: Well the first and obvious thing to say is I'm outraged. Everybody is outraged, but you step back and you look at it, you know I think it's fair to say, what is most outrageous? Like what are we really angry about? Cheaters are bad. Cheaters are bad because when people cheat, people who don't cheat get taken advantage of and that's just fundamentally not fair. We all get that.

But rich cheaters seem to really upset us especially and I think part of part of what's crystallized the outrage around this story is the fact that the people who most egregiously cheated had an awful lot of money and for my money, you know, as I step back to look at it, I was like, "Well, yes that is kind of disgusting," but where is the outrage for the cost of college in general?

I mean you don't have to be rich or famous to believe that your kid is doomed to fail if they don't get a four-year degree. There are millions of parents in the country right now, millions, who genuinely feel that if they don't do everything they can to get their kid into a good school, they will fail the kid.

So where's the outrage for the pressure that we put on a 17-year-old to borrow $100,000.00. So much of that pressure comes from their mom and dad. It's well intended, but it's kind of tragic and where's the outrage for the guidance counselors who continually say the best path for the most people just happens to be the most expensive and the politicians and the lobbyists who exacerbate the same myth and employers who still insist on only interviewing people with a four-year degree?

We set the table in a pretty self-evident way and when we scratch our heads, you're exactly right. The cost of tuition has increased faster than inflation, but also faster than healthcare, faster than real estate, faster than food, faster than energy. Never before in the history of Western civilization has anything so potentially important become so egregiously expensive.

So, yes college is expensive because we freed up an unlimited pile of free money and told an entire generation they were doomed to fail if they didn't borrow it and that's happened in every single tax bracket, not just the top one.

CARLSON: No, that's exactly right, so we really shouldn't be surprised as you just said when people who can try and game the system that's been described to them since day one as the most important -- as the gates to success in America. Why even now are so -- when so many people know the system is a scam are so few people saying so?

ROWE: I think because we're stuck in this perpetual binary box. It's this or that, right? It's blue-collar or white-collar. Good job or bad job. Higher education or alternative education. And when you only have two choices or when you think you only have two choices, then you do one thing at the expense of the other.

So for instance, I know we've talked about this before, but it just seems so clear now when four-year degree universities needed a PR campaign 40 years ago, they got one, but the PR came at the expense of all other forms of education. So it wasn't just, "Hey, Tucker go get your Liberal Arts degree because it will give you a broad-based appreciation for the humanities." It was, "If you don't go get that degree, you're going to wind up over here turning a wrench or running a welding torch or doing some kind of vocational consolation prize."

We promoted the one thing at the expense of all of the others and that one thing just happened to be the most expensive thing and so look, I don't think the skills gap is a mystery. I think it's a reflection of what we value. Seven million jobs are available now, most of them don't require a four-year degree. They require training, and yet we're obsessed not really with education, what we're obsessed with is credentialing.

And so people are buying diplomas and they're buying their degrees. It's a diploma dilemma, honestly and it's expensive and it's getting worse and it's not just the kids who are holding the note. It's us. We're underwriting all the time.

CARLSON: You're totally right and Felicity Huffman who believed all the nonsense that she's been told for 40 years. We shall listen to you on this because you are right. Mike Rowe, thank you.

ROWE: You're welcome. Thank you.

CARLSON: After a decade in the wilderness Tiger Woods is back at the top of the golf world. He fought for it. Plus prosecutors are backing off on the human trafficking claims. They were always nonsense against the patriotic owner of the New England Patriots, Bob Kraft. The founder of Barstool Sports, El Presidente, Dave Portnoy joins us after the break on both stories.

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CARLSON: It's been close to four months since New England Patriots owner, Robert Kraft was lured into a prostitution sting in Jupiter, Florida. Authorities initially justified trying to destroy Robert Kraft's life well into his 70s because they said human trafficking was taking place.

Now prosecutors are saying, there's no evidence of that at all. I guess they just kind of made it up. So why are they continuing to go after Robert Kraft? Dave Portnoy might know the answer to that. He is the founder of Barstool Sports and we're grateful to have him tonight.

El Presidente, does this -- I mean, you from the very beginning said this was a frame job. It's ridiculous. But even you could not have predicted - - I don't think -- the hollowness of the case against Kraft.

DAVE PORTNOY, FOUNDER, BARSTOOL SPORTS: I mean it's insane. There is really no case. There's no case about anybody, but when it happened, all you heard was sex trafficking, sex trafficking. Major charge. Headlines. Putting a siren on an ambulance. Everybody look over here. Three or four weeks later, nothing. There's absolutely nothing. No sex trafficking. I don't even know why we're talking about it still. It's an insane case all the way around, and unfortunately, in cases like this, the noise at the beginning is a lot louder than the noise at the end. We haven't heard anything from them.

CARLSON: So the reason -- the reason I want to talk about it is exactly for that reason, so a government agency comes in and destroys your life, humiliates you in the eyes of your kids and your grandkids in his case and everyone you've ever met and then they're just like, "Oops, yes, no sorry." Where's the recourse? What can you do about it? Why aren't people punished for this?

PORTNOY: Hey, you should be or at least we should know why did you need a warrant? They faked the bomb scare to put the cameras in there. Never mind that. We don't know -- everybody is saying there's innocent people and when I say innocent, people have got legitimate massages. There's a 20-year-old girl who they sued today. They're suing -- the Jupiter police saying you filmed us, a 20-year-old girl and her mother are in this massage parlor getting a normal massage that they paid for, and they have police watching this video for no reason? Why?

So it's crazy. The whole case is absolutely insane and why people still want the tapes released, for what? Like for what reason?

CARLSON: Right. To humiliate someone and I have to say, I wish there was someone in the media other than you who would say something about it. You see these hosts on other channels just sort of mindlessly repeating some press release they got from the Jupiter Police Department as if it's absolutely true.

PORTNOY: And it's a race to be first.

CARLSON: Infuriating.

PORTNOY: It's a race to make noise. It is to look at me, get the page views, get the clicks and then when you're dead wrong and like you said, I mean this guy -- you tarnish this guy's image and anybody else involved for absolutely nothing, where is the recourse? Where is the punishment?

I mean somebody was dead wrong or multiple people dead wrong. Where's the police? The prosecutor? All of these people who sat and looked us in the eyes and said, "This is sex trafficking." "Oh just kidding. No. No evidence at all." Well based on what? What happened?

CARLSON: Exactly it could happen to you. I've got to get you view on Tiger Woods, 11 years. He just wins his fifth Masters. What is the takeaway from this?

PORTNOY: I'm going to tell you the takeaway, you may be surprised by it, Tucker. I hate Tiger Woods. I'm not a Tiger Woods guy. I thought he was kind of a fraud human. It's not because of any -- of the extramarital. I just thought he was a fraud.

CARLSON: No, I get it, I get it actually.

PORTNOY: But -- and I said he'd never win a Masters, but I was the first guy, I almost popped my shoulder dislocating to say, I was wrong. I was wrong. I can admit it. I'm a man. He is one of the greatest ever to do it.

If more people took that lead, Tucker, and could admit when they made a very big mistake, which I did because for years, I said, he's done. Forget Tiger. All of these Tiger lovers, I said, you're wasting your time. He is never going to win and I was the first one on the entire internet. Check my tweets, I said, "Hey, hand up, Dave Portnoy is wrong." That surprisingly is the message.

CARLSON: I totally agree with you and I applaud the bigness of your heart and your willingness to say that out loud.

PORTNOY: Credit to me.

CARLSON: David Portnoy.

PORTNOY: Credit for admitting it.

CARLSON: Good for you. No, I'm serious. It's good. It's good to admit. Good to see you, man.

PORTNOY: You, too.

CARLSON: Thanks a lot. We're almost out of time. One last thing before we go tonight. We are grateful for the people who watch this show, but we're particularly grateful, we want to call them out by name tonight for our friends in the 42nd Clearance Company currently deployed in Kandahar, Afghanistan. They watch the show but we are even bigger fans of them, and we want to salute them for what they're doing on circumstances that are not easy at all. There they are they. Thanks, guys.

That's it for us tonight. We'll be back tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. The show that is the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity, smugness and groupthink. DVR it if you have the technical capabilities to do that. Good night from Los Angeles.

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