Tucker: Everyone is lying

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Tucker: Everyone is lying

Fox News host discusses whether Ukraine is a democracy on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight.'

This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," March 21, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST, TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT: Good evening and welcome to TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT.

One upside of the very sad war in Ukraine is the national conversation underway in this country about freedom and democracy. Those are words on everyone's lips, and so it set us off on a nationwide search for Americans who are living as if this were a free country, like it was, say 1989. And one of the first people we found we have to tell you is Kid Rock. We spent the weekend with him. We've got an interview with him in just a moment.

But first tonight, what exactly is democracy? Well, pluralism is the hallmark of it. In a democracy, citizens can have any opinion they want to have. They can express any opinion they want in public whenever they care to express it, including through mass media.

If citizens are dissatisfied with their political leadership, they can challenge their leaders for office. Now, all of these things are true in every free country, in any period -- always. These are not just features of democracy. These are prerequisites for democracy.

So with that in mind, you should know about a political party in Ukraine called Opposition Platform for Life. With 43 seats in Parliament, it is the largest opposition party in that country. Over the weekend, the President of Ukraine. Volodymyr Zelenskyy banned that party.

Opposition Platform for Life is now prohibited from quote "all activity within Ukraine." So with a single command, Zelenskyy made it impossible for anybody to run against him for President.

He did this not just to Opposition Platform for Life, but to 10 other political parties that he believed are insufficiently loyal to him. They're all illegal now. Obviously, there's a war underway in Ukraine and on that basis, Zelenskyy has declared martial law.

We must tell you, there is no evidence that the opposition parties he banned were aiding Russia in its war against Ukraine. Opposition Platform for Life, for example, denounced the Russian invasion the moment it happened, just like everybody else. But Zelenskyy took the opportunity to turn Ukraine into effectively a one-party state, which it now is.

So having banned all opposition, he then seized control of the country's media outlets. Zelenskyy signed a decree that combines all national television channels into a single platform that he controls. He described this as a quote, "unified information policy," and it certainly is unified.

So if all of these details seem shocking to you, if this is not the Zelenskyy you've heard about on the "Today" show, then you may not have been paying attention to Ukraine. Zelenskyy has been solidifying complete control over Ukraine for a long time, since long before the Russian invasion and the war.

Last year, he had his main political opponent arrested, and his assets seized by the state. At the same time, Zelenskyy shut down three of Ukraine's most popular television networks, channels that coincidentally, had criticized him.

So how should we, as Americans assess this? Well, first and most obviously, by admitting this is authoritarianism, it is not democracy. And then second, by acknowledging that actually, it is pretty common around the world. Even in 2022, real democracy is a rare thing anywhere. Most countries are still governed by some variety of dictatorship, whatever they may call it, and that includes close American allies -- the Kingdoms of Jordan and Saudi Arabia come to mind, but there are others.

We are not moralizing about this, by the way. Obviously, we'd prefer democracy everywhere in every country. But as Americans, it is probably a waste of time to get too involved in the internal affairs of other countries. They are hard to change.

What we care about what all Americans should care about is what happens here in the United States. The United States is, despite the fact it is also a bumper sticker doesn't make it untrue, is a beacon of hope and freedom to the rest of the world. How do we maintain that inspiring position? Not simply by sending people missiles, but by remaining free ourselves.

The United States cannot be a beacon of freedom, of light in the world, if we are not free. So that is the first thing we do if we want to inspire and change the world -- Ukraine included -- is make sure that we stay free. And with that concern in mind, you should be very worried by your leaders' response to what's happening in Ukraine, the growing dictatorship there, and that that's the word for it. What's another word for it? If you have ideas, send it to us.

On the very same day that Zelenskyy shut down opposition media and all opposition political parties, professional liar, and "Atlantic" Magazine pundit, David Frum posted this on Twitter verbatim quote, "Ukraine may be the first example in human history of a country that under the pressure of war is becoming more tolerant and more liberal." Right.

So when you outlaw all criticism of yourself, that's called tolerance. It's called democracy, but don't take the word of a single Canadian warmonger propagandist. David Frum is hardly alone in telling you that, all of Washington is telling you that. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): So proud of President Zelenskyy and the courage that he has shown. And in Congress, we are trying to get the administration on board.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): President Biden is showing moral leadership just like President Zelenskyy is showing moral leadership,

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): He of course, by his example, shows the kind of courage we all hope we can reach and provide at a moment of real testing.

SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): Government doesn't give us our rights. Our rights come to us from God and government is just a shared tool to secure them, and you see that spirit, that American -- Philadelphia 1787 spirit in Zelenskyy right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: These people. So the man who just declared himself king is actually the world's newest George Washington, okay. Now, you can be deeply concerned and deeply saddened, outraged, by what is happening to Ukrainians without saying things like that. Because it's absurd, it is a lie. That's the word from Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska, a Republican.

And again, on one level, you can understand why people are whipped into an emotional frenzy when they talk about Ukraine. Why wouldn't they be? Russia's invasion of Ukraine was shocking. It was wrong. The suffering of civilians there is entirely real. We're watching that on TV. It's horrifying.

So it is entirely natural to root for the Ukrainians to expel the invaders, and obviously, we are rooting for them to expel the invaders, Russia. But just because what Russia has done in Ukraine was wrong, doesn't mean you have to lie about the Ukrainian government.

In fact, if you really cared about the Ukrainian people, and all the people you just saw on TV, "We care so much," you wouldn't want them to live under a dictator. So you would be highly upset about what Zelenskyy just did.

But our leaders are not upset in the slightest. They are cheering it on, even when they know better. So some of them are just too dumb to know, but some of them do know, Michael McFaul, for example. He is Barack Obama's Ambassador to Russia, unlike shallow gas bags like Dick Durbin or Ben Sasse, McFaul actually understands Eastern Europe, he has lived there. He knows exactly who Zelenskyy is and exactly what he is doing.

So here is his assessment of the Ukrainian government, not the people, the government, as of this afternoon, quote: "If Zelenskyy remains in power, Ukrainian democracy is preserved."

Like that guy teaches at Stanford, but that's not true. So again, Ukraine was invaded by its neighbors, and we oppose that, we should oppose that. But that doesn't mean Ukraine is a democracy. It's not. And we shouldn't tell Americans it is because that's a lie. We should tell the truth, but virtually no one is telling the truth. Everyone is lying. So why?

Why is everyone like -- why not just say: Look, it's outrageous that Russia did this and we're going to -- we like Ukraine better? We're going to support Ukraine. Fine. Why go the extra step to tell us that Ukraine is a model democracy, when it's not at all? Why are they doing that?

Maybe because Ukraine now is exactly the sort of democracy they'd like to see here in the United States. They hate to think that could be true, it's scary to think that's true. But ask yourself, play this word game. If they could find a, quote, "national security" pretext for it, a war, for example, do you think Adam Schiff and Kamala Harris or Mitch McConnell would pause for even a second before banning their political opponents for running from office in this country?

Do you think they would hesitate before pulling this show off the air forever? No. Of course not. They'd do it in a flash. Then they'd call it democracy.

So maybe you're starting to -- these people love Zelenskyy not because he represents the Ukrainian people. But because Zelenskyy is exactly the leader they would like to be with wildly expanded war powers to make everyone who complains shut up at gunpoint. Maybe that's what's going on. It seems kind of obvious when you think about it.

Now, of course, we pray, they never have the power to do any of that in this country, the last free country in the world, we should not let them do that because freedom in America is not just important to us, our children, and grandchildren, it is important to the globe. Again, we are the last free country and we must remain free.

But in the meantime, a war is being waged in America's name, with our money, so it is fair to ask how the side we are backing is doing? Clearly, there are an awful lot of heroic Ukrainian citizens. We see them all the time on television, we applaud them, we admire them. But how is the government doing? How is it behaving? Again, we have a right to know, even if state controlled media in Ukraine won't report it, even if our sort of state controlled media here downplays it, dismisses it.

Here is a man called Gennadiy Druzenko. Druzenko was a medic in charge of a field hospital in Ukraine. He has appeared on CNN. In this clip, he casually announces that he has ordered the castration of captured Russian soldiers. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GENNADIY DRUZENKO, UKRAINIAN FRONTLINE MEDIC Speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: I instructed my doctors -- I have always been a great humanist and I said that as soon as a person is wounded, he is no longer an enemy but a patient.

But now, a very strict instruction is to castrate all men because they are cockroaches, not people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: "Cockroaches, not people." Now again, that doesn't mean the broader Ukrainian cause is unjust, it is just. They were invaded. They have a right to fight back and expel the Russians from their country. And for the fifth time, we're rooting for that.

But we're paying for this, so we have a right to know exactly what's happening. We have an absolute right to know. In fact, we have a constitutional right to free media. We don't have that.

That video, by the way disappeared. People on the internet managed to get a copy of it. You may hear it dismissed as Russian propaganda just like Hunter Biden's laptop was or the 2016 presidential election results in this country were, but it is not Russian propaganda. It's real.

The man you just saw speaking has confirmed the video is authentic. He apologized for it. So murdering POWs is a war crime, so is castrating them. We're not shocked by this. This happens in a lot of countries, Ukraine is not unique. Atrocities happen during war, every war, always, no matter what the neocons may tell you.

But this is a war that we are paying for. This is a war with moral implications. This is a war the White House is involved in at every level. So when the Ukrainian government does something, we have an interest in knowing exactly what it is and what it means.

But more than anything, we have an overriding interest and a moral obligation to keep the United States free. So when you see them admire someone who is shutting down any opposition to him, you should pause.

Maajid Nawaz is one of the bravest people on Twitter, relentlessly telling the truth no matter what the response is, doubtless will be bounced off of there at some point. But in the meantime, he's by the way, a broadcaster and a journalist. We're grateful to have him join us. Thank you so much for coming.

MAAJID NAWAZ, JOURNALIST: Pleasure.

CARLSON: So you've said from the very beginning -- I mean, you were against Putin, strongly against Putin, you know, for years because of other conflicts in the Middle East. So you're a bona fide as an anti-Putin guy, or you know, have no blemish -- you're pointing out --

NAWAZ: Well, thank you for starting with that, Tucker, because let me make it absolutely clear.

CARLSON: Yes.

NAWAZ: During the Arab uprisings, and in particular, with regards to Syria, there are videos of me online speaking about Putin in terms that people, I'm sure today would hope that I continued to do. So anybody that wants to accuse me of being particularly close to Putin can find those videos.

I have criticized Putin, probably to a wider audience than many of my critics today have done so, and that's for Putin. But that is very different to what I think is happening in Ukraine, as you touched on, and where I stand on that.

And I think, actually, we're being led down the garden path. We are being pressured through intense propaganda led by our governments not to question what is going on, and to see this in purely good versus evil, in Manichaean terms, and to accuse anybody that tries to look at the gray in between as being somehow a Putin apologist.

CARLSON: But if this is a war being fought over principle, and I'm happy to believe that it is, freedom versus tyranny, black versus white, et cetera et cetera, then why wouldn't our leaders care if the guy who is running Ukraine declares himself all powerful in and bans all opposition to him? Why would that bother them?

NAWAZ: Well, exactly and I think first of all, I don't think it is a war on principle when it comes to the reason our governments are involved. That's different to why we, on principle would support the Ukrainian people. But ultimately, we've got to ask this question that you've got a country led by a man who even before the war, AXIOS, "The Guardian," The Atlantic Council, all of them were reporting that Zelenskyy, even though he ran on an anti-corruption ticket has through the Panama Papers and other such leaks have stashed his millions offshore like most corrupt oligarchs have.

And so even before the war, his corruption was known, and then you fast forward to what he has done over this weekend with the banning of 11 opposition parties. And I know at this stage that he banned these opposition parties, including, as you mentioned, Tucker, the second largest in his Parliament, while the Nazi elements and I use the word Nazi, not neo Nazi, because these are actual Nazis that aren't neo in any sense. They are the continuation of Nazis as we know them, and study them in history.

And Bandera, the man that they revere was actually a Nazi, and they made him into a national hero and icon. The Nazis in Ukraine have not been banned by Zelenskyy. And so, this is a very interesting point that you've got a man that we are hailing as a democratic icon who is fighting for freedom and democracy and our way of life, banning all opposition parties controlling through the state the media narrative, while refusing not only to ban Nazis, but having after not banning them, incorporated them into his state, as of as a battalion, formerly serves in the Ukrainian National Guard. Now, people say to that, in response, you know, but Maajid, there are racists in every country.

No, the analogy here is imagine, Tucker, in America, the KKK had a formal battalion in the U.S. military. That's what we've got with swastikas and Nazi insignia inside the Ukrainian army and then people would say, well, what do you want to do? They invaded -- Putin invaded their country, of course, they have to fight.

I find this line of argument absolutely absurd, because the best analogy is with Syria. Now, Putin did -- allying with Nazis in Ukraine to defeat Putin is as absurd as allying with ISIS in Syria to defeat Putin. You've got an extremist, an armed extreme terrorist militia known as ISIS. None of us ever had any more difficulty in understanding that Assad was a dictator, that Putin's support for Assad was wrong, but the people opposing him, the jihadists were also wrong. Why can't we have that moral complexity when it comes to Ukraine?

CARLSON: And keep the U.K., and particularly the United States, my country free. If you're for freedom in Ukraine, you can't try and shut down honest questions in this country or punish people for telling the truth. It is super simple, I would say.

You are telling the truth, I'm grateful that you are and Godspeed as you do. Maajid Nawaz, thank you.

NAWAZ: Thank you.

CARLSON: So, as we told you at to the top, we are always on the lookout for people who live like they are free. Kid Rock lives as if he were free. Like it was 1989. He is here for an extended interview, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Why are a lot of the same people calling for freedom in Ukraine working so hard to make this country less free? We're not sure. It might be worth thinking about that a little bit. But the truth is, if you say something that is accurate, even factually accurate out loud in this country, if it's unpopular, you're in trouble, you can get fired, definitely be censored on social media.

So everyone knows this. That's enough to terrify most people into silence. We're always looking for ones who were not silenced.

Kid Rock would be at the top of that list. He's got an album called "Bad Reputation." It came out today. We spent a lot of time with him over the weekend at his placed in Nashville for a new documentary that we're making for the summer.

We sat down with him for this show at his studio there. Pretty amazing conversation. Here's part of it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARLSON: All right, so we're sitting where you made your most recent album and I hope, at some point we can get a full shot of where we are because I've never seen anything like this. When did you make this album?

KID ROCK, SINGER/SONGWRITER: We got this studio done, brought everything down from my Michigan Studios right before [bleep] hit the fan, COVID.

CARLSON: COVID.

KID ROCK: Yes.

CARLSON: So how did you spend COVID?

KID ROCK: Right here, writing and recording. I had more time to work on this album than since my first breakthrough album "Devil without a Cause," you know, you spend years with that first album.

CARLSON: Yes.

KID ROCK: And then from there, it's just a rat race of getting more records out when you hit a lick and you're successful. And this record, having a couple years just to fine tune every lyric and every note, and leave some stuff raw and feel like that and see what works, what doesn't, and to keep going back to the drawing board was just a luxury that I haven't been afforded in a long time.

And you know, you say in every album everyone does, "This is my best album."

CARLSON: Yes. Of course.

KID ROCK: And sell, sell. But you know, it really is, you know, that I -- in my heart. I know, it is one of my best efforts in a long time. Definitely, since "Rock n Roll, Jesus."

CARLSON: You've been doing this 30 years, but you still bring intensity to it. Like how often do you come here?

KID ROCK: I'm workaholic. I'm here on an average day, at 3:30 in the morning, Monday through Friday. And I'm usually the last one out about six o'clock at night.

CARLSON: In the studio?

KID ROCK: Yes, well, I am here from, yes, 3:30 in the morning. I'm writing, doing things, checking e-mails. My head works best in the morning. I love to write then and work on music and then by 7:00 AM, my buddy comes in. We play some pickle ball you know, do a cardio.

They get back. People start showing up at 9:30. I love that time in the morning. I get to myself and then you know, my engineer gets here about 9:30. We record all day.

Grandpa gets his little nap in the afternoon and Groundhog Day, do it again. Monday through Friday. Then Friday afternoon, things are feeling good. Might crack a beer in the afternoon. Have a big time Friday, Saturday. Relaxing Sunday. Get back to it.

CARLSON: That's amazing. So, you're -- I mean, a rock star with the counting hours.

KID ROCK: Yes, yes. Rock star. I play one on TV pretty well.

CARLSON: That's just interesting though. There's like a lot of discipline around it.

KID ROCK: Yes. This doesn't happen without discipline. You know people only see the wild side usually and the party side and hopefully some of the -- you know, charitable things and things I've done through the years. There are both sides out there, but each day, I worked my ass off and that's --

When people ask me for advice I am like, I work harder than you. That's what happened.

CARLSON: So what was the idea behind this album?

KID ROCK: It kind of came together at the end by calling it "Bad Reputation" for a real good time because that pretty much sums me up. It is like, you know it is everything.

I just wanted to go back a little bit to my roots of the hard rock and hard rap, you know, heavier stuff. But I also want to throw in the tinges of you know, southern rock and country music and soul music and of course rock and roll, all which I loved, you know, so much and have really honed my craft over the years to not just be fluent in one, but you know, touch on them all.

You know, what my family and friends and fans feel like I do at a pretty good level.

CARLSON: So, if there was, I mean, a message behind the album, what would it be?

KID ROCK: To my fans, I love you dearly. To you critics, haters, and trolls go [bleep] yourself.

CARLSON: That's pretty clear in the opposite. Like you're not kind of hiding that message.

KID ROCK: I have the things I do is like, you know, to solidify my fans and like I will say a lot of this to my friends, family and fans. It's really all that matters to me, but I love the trolls and the haters and the critics who've been trying to, you know, knock me down for 20 to 30 years, and I just -- I'm still standing, still operating at the highest levels.

It's just sometimes, I do things purposefully, just to kind of be a wise ass or look like a little bit of an [bleep] because my fans will get the tongue in cheek and define it, and the people that hate me will just go "God damn it." Just piss them off more.

CARLSON: So why haven't you been canceled? Like, people aren't allowed to say what they think you are?

KID ROCK: I am an uncancelable.

CARLSON: What's that?

KID ROCK: Because I'm not [bleep] and I am not in bed with any big corporate things. At the end of the day, there's nobody I'm beholden to, no record companies, no corporate interests, no nothing and you can't cancel me. I love it when they try. I'm like, yes.

CARLSON: Why aren't there more artists like that?

KID ROCK: Because they are in bed with record companies and you know, corporate deals and instructors at every level. And, you know, it's -- and if someone finds a way to get me a little bit here in there, I'll find another way around it.

CARLSON: You never see artists talk like that. They seem very easy to intimidate. At what point did you realize like, you're just not going to be intimidated.

KID ROCK: Day one.

CARLSON: Really?

KID ROCK: I think I crawled out of the womb with both middle fingers in the air. And that wasn't anything -- a lot of it, you know, there is a little fun in there to kind of you know, yes, be rock and roll and be that guy and this that and the other because you know, my hearts big at the end of the day, and I have a lot of love and respect for anybody that shows their back to me.

But you know, grandpa don't play no mess either.

CARLSON: Do the other guys in your business ever say to you like man, I wish I could say exactly what I think all the time.

KID ROCK: Every [bleep] day.

CARLSON: Really?

KID ROCK: Every day, especially the country guys. Because they've got to be understandably careful. Like, you know, the awards and things, radio, corporate interests, they meet a lot in country music. The award stuff actually helps them out and rock and roll would say: Hey, you're getting an award for this. It's like [bleep], I could care less about their awards.

CARLSON: You don't want any more awards.

KID ROCK: I've never played any of those games anyway.

CARLSON: You must have watched a lot of people sort of float off in the atmosphere, in your --

KID ROCK: A lot of them come and go, you know, same old stories. You know, we've all seen the behind the music. The same story.

CARLSON: Well, what I am saying, so how do you avoid that?

KID ROCK: I just have a sense of discipline when things you know are getting too out of hand whether it was back in the day with drugs and alcohol, this and that, you've got to go like, what's important, I need to reel this in. You know, and eventually, you know, certainly just cut some things out and like, you know, focus on what you love. You know, your friends, your family, music.

You know, what's important in life? You've only got so much time, you know, let's make the most of that time. Let us not waste it.

CARLSON: Who are your fans? Do you have a slight picture of who they are?

KID ROCK: Yes, hardworking folks who love to have a good time.

CARLSON: Yes. Do you hear from them?

KID ROCK: Yes, absolutely. You can't not hear from people these days.

CARLSON: That's a really good point.

KID ROCK: You can try to tune them out, that doesn't happen.

CARLSON: So, do you feel like you've got a pretty good sense of what they think.

KID ROCK: Oh, yes. They seem to think a lot of the things I do, not everything. Nobody's views align.

CARLSON: Right.

KID ROCK: But I'm not opposed to anybody's opposing views. I've got a lot of friends you know that we're still friends who are left a little farther than that on some things. I love getting together with them and cut it up, have a couple of beers and talking about things and hear both sides.

I think that's important.

CARLSON: So you're going on tour. Where are you going?

KID ROCK: Um, a lot of Midwest and South, little East Coast and some select dates on the West Coast. America, I'll go outside. I won't show passport too much.

CARLSON: You don't. Why? You've been all around the world, you don't --

KID ROCK: I just have no interest. And I -- you know, I get why some bands do this, that and the other and if I wanted to be the biggest deal in every country in the world, I could, but I'm like, I like my own bed. I'm digging Kentucky, man.

CARLSON: And that's good enough. In fact, that's -- so you're not playing venues that require vax cards?

KID ROCK: No, and it was -- you know, of course yes, that's what the headline ran from the left. You know, Kid Rock said, and I am like, great, summer tour for me. Go for it. There was going to be no vax cards by the time we toured anyway, it was common knowledge. Anybody with half a brain knew that.

CARLSON: Yes.

KID ROCK: So, you know, the only place we didn't -- that we decided not to play was Buffalo, New York because New York looked like it probably could have something in place, you know, where you have to wear a mask or show a card or whatever. And I was like, no. I'm not, no. Why? Because it's stupid.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARLSON: Interesting guy, smart guy, and highly self-disciplined. You don't bang around the entertainment business for 30 years and survive unless you are very self-disciplined, and he is.

We couldn't resist asking him what he thinks of Fauci and Trump, whether anyone the entertainment business agrees with him. Spoiler. Yes, that's all next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: So a lot of entertainers are very quiet about their political views. Bob Ritchie -- Kid Rock is not. But what's interesting, according to him, his views are not uncommon in the entertainment industry. They're just suppressed. We asked him by the way, since he's a frequent golf partner of former President Trump, how did you first meet him? And what do you think of him? And above all, what do you think of Tony Fauci? Here is more of our extended interview with Kid Rock.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARLSON: Where'd you meet Trump?

KID ROCK: Where did I meet Trump? Oh, at the White House with Sarah Palin.

CARLSON: At the White House.

KID ROCK: Sarah Palin asked him to -- I was friendly with her and early right when he got elected, he invited her to dinner to bring some interesting people. So she said, she called me and Ted Nugent, and was like, "Hell yes." And up there, we ended becoming buddies and spent a lot of time at a golf course now and really weird to get phone calls from him and stuff. It's just kind of mind blowing.

CARLSON: What's it like to play golf with?

KID ROCK: Awesome. So much fun.

CARLSON: Really? Why?

KID ROCK: He just knows how to have fun. He doesn't take it too seriously. You know, he's engaging. He is just cutting it up, just open with politics. And I was there with him one day, when he ended the Caliphate. He wanted to put out a tweet. And it was like, I don't like to speak out of school. I hope I'm not, but it was something like, he's like, tell them like, yes, the tweet was -- and I'm paraphrasing -- but it was like, you know, if you ever joined the Caliphate, you know, they're trying to do this. You are going to be dead.

He goes: What do you think of it? I go. Awesome. Tweet that out.

I can't add anything better than but, then it comes out. It's very, it's reworded and more political and get a little politically correct. And I'm - - like, just be a pretty -- we're looking at maps and [bleep] I'm like, you know, I'm like -- am I supposed to be like, you know [bleep].

I make dirty records sometimes. [Bleep] do it here.

CARLSON: You didn't think you'd have a handle on it.

KID ROCK: What do think we should do about North Korea? I'm Like -- what? I don't think I'm qualified to answer this.

CARLSON: You're still playing golf with him down in Florida?

KID ROCK: Yes. Yes.

CARLSON: How does he seem?

KID ROCK: What's that?

CARLSON: How does he seem?

KID ROCK: He seems great. He seems great. You know, after the election, it was you know, a little -- you know, a little different there. But he's still the same guy. He sits down, he just cuts it up. Just starts cutting it up. It's just how sharp he is, it is incredible.

And you can see now if you watch a Joe Biden interview, and you watch a Trump interview, you're just like, there is no comparison. And Trump, yes, he speaks off the cuff. I understand what it's like. Sometimes you get it wrong.

CARLSON: Yes.

KID ROCK: Those, that and the other. But I would way rather hear somebody come from here and get it wrong once in a while than see this contrived pretty much every politician until he came along, at some level, everything was scripted.

I mean, I stood next to him in the White House and right next with the prepared notes, and watch him read like one sentence, then this one, let's go. You're like, this is awesome.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Kid Rock. Kid, thank you. Great film. You like this legislation? Do you hate it?

KID ROCK: Like it.

TRUMP: You like it. He has been fighting for a long time?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KID ROCK: That's why I liked him from the beginning. You know, I said, you know, he was my guy before he even got the nomination, a Rolling Stone. And since that day till now, tu-tu-tu-tu-tu [bleep] bullets coming at you from every angle.

CARLSON: I mean, if you had a manager who was in control of your career, he would say, you know, maybe let's not weigh in on this.

KID ROCK: Oh, I've had managers that you know, well, manager punch, you know, I love dearly. He told me flat out he started to manage me, he goes just so you know, he goes, everything you've done to this point in your career to get where you're at, I would have told you no.

CARLSON: Well, what does that tell you?

KID ROCK: I just have got to go with my heart. I've just gone by my heart and the seat of my pants try to be a good person, you know, be educated if I'm going to speak on some things. Sometimes not so much. But whatever, Just kind of call it like I see it.

CARLSON: We had dinner last night and you rolled up in a Rolls Royce, the "Let's go Brandon" edition.

KID ROCK: Yes. With a Waffle House plate.

CARLSON: With a Waffle House plate, so for our viewers who might want the Rolls Royce, the "Let's go Brandon" edition. Where can you get one?

KID ROCK: You go on this thing called Google. You can type in, you know car badges. "Let's go Brandon." And there's companies that come up. On my truck, I've got one that says "White Boy Edition." There's all these crazy -- but it looks official. So yes, I would never drive a Ford car or be driven.

I used to like to say to myself, like I'm so proud, you know, for how hard I work. And you know, what I charge people for shows is what I think is fair because I can hold my head high because I feel I've never made an unhonest dollar off work on my back. And so I get a Rolls Royce.

I'm in Nashville, so I'm not in Detroit. That's the thing, but it came for sale this thing and I had this Waffle House license plate forever. And I'm like, I need a car to put that thing on. I need to get that Rolls Royce. And then the "Let's Go Brandon" badge came out, and I'm like, oh, there is a heaven. It's just too good. It's just too much fun. You know what I mean?

CARLSON: Without naming their names -- are there, and you would know, are there other people in your business who agree with you privately?

KID ROCK: Yes, and it was funny during the last, you know, election when Trump's thing is that some people on his inside saying to me, they were naming a lot of Hollywood people and they kept going like, you know, yes, they are in the closet. I am like, those people are all gay. That's nuts.

They are like, no, no, no their closet Trump fans. I'm like, oh, man. Like that was kind of mind blowing, you know? Like I'm not going to talk out of school on these people. They obviously don't want to be out in the open for whatever reasons they have, but yes, there's a ton of them. They have no idea.

Me and I Trump talk about that a lot for like, you know, they have no idea how many of us there are. You know, the vocal one, sure, you know who they are and you see them, but they have no idea how many of us there are out there that not are either Trump fans or just you know more conservative to the right and conservative.

CARLSON: Yes.

KID ROCK: To me, I don't know -- it is you who has changed. When I was young, a conservative was like you know, sweaters and collared shirt. Oh okay --

CARLSON: I haven't updated my looks since the 80s, okay. I'm not -- I'm not quick.

KID ROCK: But you know, it's like, if I said the F-word when I was young, I was running out of the house, you know, because I was about to get paddled for something like this, and you know nowadays, it's like conservatives are a little hipper you know -- it's -- you know, a little more out in the open.

I'm sure that'll be the headline from our -- you know, from the left-wing - - I can already see their headlines on this interview. It's like Tucker and Kid Rock's Love Story Together.

CARLSON: I am not embarrassed. I'm a fan. No, I mean look, I respect anyone who thinks for himself even if that person reaches different conclusions from me. What I don't respect is people who just sign up for the program because someone in power told them to think it. I don't respect that. Why would you?

KID ROCK: We can agree on certain levels, to think each other -- like each one and another is a dumbass.

CARLSON: Right? That's totally fine.

KID ROCK: Still have great conversations. I love it.

CARLSON: What's your view of Fauci?

KID ROCK: [Bleep] Fauci.

CARLSON: You speak for many when you say that? Did you believe him at the beginning? Fauci?

KID ROCK: I believed all the [bleep] in the beginning.

CARLSON: Yes.

KID ROCK: I mean, we were kind of shooting this documentary and I'm like, so embarrassing, like in here, like here, I'm spraying off UPS packages and like, spraying on the doorknobs and like a couple of months [bleep], like, what? It's like, so this pretty much like is knocking out overweight, unhealthy people.

Like I'm good. And so most my of friends after people started getting it and they're like, you know, some people had a little worse than others, but it was nothing, you know and I don't want it you know, throw any shine on people that had a bad time or passed away with it. It's horrible when anyone is lost.

But to me, I was like this some bull [bleep]. Now with this mask [bleep]. You know, one day -- it's just the disinformation that's in the world now. At every level.

CARLSON: That's for sure.

KID ROCK: You don't know what to believe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARLSON: So there's a man who talks and lives like you might talk or live if you were totally insulated from big companies and could afford it. So it was a fascinating experience spending a couple of days with Kid Rock on his property in Tennessee.

All for a documentary we are making for the "Tucker Carlson Original" series coming out this summer. It's going to be good.

So, as we look to Eastern Europe to bring freedom, Twitter just suspended "Babylon Bee" for a satirical headline about Joe Biden's Assistant Secretary for Health, Rachel Levine. Apparently, it's now hate speech to acknowledge that Rachel Levine is biologically a man, which is true. They've banned it. We will talk to the head of "Babylon Bee" next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Rachel Levine is a biological man who has lived life as a biological man, married, kids, the whole thing, and then at some point fairly recently decided I'm a woman dressing as woman, fine. But you have to call me a woman or else you're a hater, not fine.

In October, because almost everything happening at this point is almost beyond parody, on the basis of that claim "I'm a woman," of course not a woman, Joe Biden made Rachel Levine an Admiral in something called the Public Health Service. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL LEVINE, UNITED STATES ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HEALTH: I am honored to serve as the first female four-star officer of the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Okay, so you're not a female, you know, no one wants to attack you for that. That is totally fine. But when you get up on stage and say something that everyone knows is untrue and then demand that we believe it, you degrade the rest of us. It's outrageous, actually, and not everyone wants to play along.

So this person is now an Admiral. To memorialize the moment, the "Babylon Bee" named Rachel Levine, their Man of the Year. It's a joke, but it's kind of true. In response to this Twitter on which no jokes are allowed, suspended "Babylon Bee" before hate speech.

So per Twitter policy, when a man calls himself a woman, you have to pretend that person is telling the truth. The whole point of this is to get you to submit. They don't care whether Rachel Levine is a man or a woman. They care about humiliating you and making you accept what you know is not true.

It's fascinating to watch it. As Jim Treacher put it today on his brilliant "Substack," quote: We finally figured out how to trick feminists into defending men." It is just so smart. Anyway, to its credit, the "Babylon Bee" is not backing down.

Seth Dillon is the hero CEO of the "Babylon Bee". And we're happy to have him join us tonight. Seth, they are demanding that -- I mean, this is part of your business, I should say. It's not like most people tweeting, this is like important that you can get your stuff out by Twitter, they're going to keep it down until you delete the tweet, are you?

SETH DILLON, CEO, "BABYLON BEE": No, we're not. I mean, it's like asking us to say that two and two make five. And so we're sitting there looking at this email that tells us in order to reinstate our account and get access to be able to tweet again, we've got to delete this tweet.

And the tweet is a joke, that's the first thing to get straight here. This is satire, it's just a joke. It's pretty harmless. And it's certainly not hurting anybody. And this is a public official, you know, it's not like we're like punching down at some downtrodden person. So you know, it's just a joke. And they're asking us to basically bend the knee and say, we admit that this is hateful conduct, please keep us on your platform and we're not going to do that.

And so we don't know where this ends, you know, there's an appeal process that we can go through. But we're not going to delete the tweet.

CARLSON: I hope it ends with Twitter being shut down by Congress. But that doesn't seem to be happening. Has it occurred to you that, you know, some Soros-backed NGO can accuse you of treason against your own country and being a Putin supporter, which is the death penalty offense, and that's totally fine on Twitter. But if you make fun of Rachel Levine's ludicrous claim that he's a woman, then you're a hater, like, how does this work? What are the standards here?

DILLON: There are no standards, at least they're not applied evenly, right? They're applied very unevenly. But this is the problem with comedy right now, is that what our job is supposed to be like satirist, comedians, in general, humorous, our job is supposed to be to poke holes in the popular narrative. I mean, that's what we do. And we're being restricted from doing that. They're literally making these rules of rigging the system where you can't actually poke holes in a popular narrative, you have to promote the popular narrative.

And so comedy is being rendered ineffective, where they're basically making rules about what you can and can't joke about, to the point where we're saying: Well, we're going to continue to make these jokes. And if we have to, we'll do it off Twitter.

CARLSON: They're pretty fragile. No? If you can't joke about some dude pretending to be a female Admiral then like, what can you joke about?

DILLON: I mean, yes, it's just not -- it's one of these things where it's like, like I said, you know, the two plus two equals five thing. Most people see this for what it is. And it's one of these things where I think the majority of Americans are really on our side in this issue. It's not like we're some fringe group that has some outrageous idea that nobody accepts, you know, this is the case where somebody is telling us look, you know, the word was even used female like female is a reference to your biological sex. That's not true.

So, we don't believe that facts are hate speech, that speaking truth is hate speech. So we're willing to stay -- at some point people have to stick by this, Tucker, people have to be willing to say: Listen, if they want us to deny the truth in order to stay on this platform, then we speak the truth, make them kick you off, you know, make them boot you.

CARLSON: Bless you. No, it's their ideas that are fringe and dangerous and crazy and the historians will be shocked by it, not yours, at all.

Seth Dillon, I appreciate your stand and what you've done, and your site, which is great. Thank you.

DILLON: Thank you.

CARLSON: More on Kid Rock outside the studio, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Interesting duo, Tucker Carlson and Kid Rock at Kid Rock's bar over the weekend. So he was down there. They're drinking, they went back into a VIP room. There's some "Let's Go Brandon" chants obviously.

(CROWD chanting "Let's Go Brandon.")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tucker Carlson is not dressed the right way for a honkey-tonk bar. He's so out of place.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But it's nice though, because you just get a free open tab, don't you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think Tucker Carlson is drinking that much?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's drinking a Shirley Temple and going home --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Club soda. That's it for us tonight. Have the best night with the ones you love. We will be back like clockwork tomorrow night.

See you then.

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