This is a rush transcript of "Tucker Carlson Tonight" on October 4, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Good evening and welcome to TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT. Happy Monday.

Life is amazing, is it not? If you'd asked Anthony Fauci 60 years ago when he was a student at Holy Cross in Massachusetts whether he would grow up to single-handedly control how Christians celebrate their most beloved holiday, Fauci probably would have assumed you were high, smoking that tea with the beatniks in Greenwich Village, reefer madness. He would have been confused.

At the time, Fauci was studying to become a doctor, not the Pope, and there was a difference then. Little could he have known, back in 1958, that public health would become America's reigning religion, and he, its High Priest.

But life is like that, you never know where you're going to end up.

Fast forward to the beginning of last December. Anthony Fauci was 79 years old. His 80th birthday it turns out was Christmas Eve and Fauci was determined to celebrate it with an exhibition of authority flexing that had no precedent in the entire history of the Federal bureaucracy. No one had ever done it before, but Fauci did.

He decided to unilaterally end Christmas, and so one day on NBC News, he did just that. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC NEWS HOST: A warning and a plea from Dr. Anthony Fauci -- should people now cancel their travel plans for Christmas?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: To the extent possible, don't travel, don't congregate together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: There was "Do not travel for Christmas" Anthony Fauci said, do not congregate together to celebrate it. That means no Christmas Eve in church. That means no Christmas morning under the tree with your family, tearing through stockings. It means no Christmas at all.

Sacred Christian observance canceled until further notice from Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, MD. What a thrill it must have been for him to say something like that. Here is a guy who fully expected to spend his life giving prostate exams and there he was declaring the ancient Christian calendar null and void.

Pretty amazing, but even more amazing was the reaction that Fauci received when he said it. The people in charge loved it. They never cared much for Christmas anyway. All that religious talk and unsupervised family time, it faintly seemed like a threat.

Anthony Fauci by contrast was no threat at all to the people in charge. He worked for them. His job was to do their bidding to confirm their biases and to never ever challenge their sense of their own moral superiority. Their job in return was to love him for it and they did.

Drive through affluent neighborhoods in Washington, D.C. to this day and you will see the signs in people's front yards. "Honk for Dr. Fauci" and "In Dr. Fauci we trust." And above all, "Thank you, Tony Fauci." And they really do want to thank him, not for funding the gain-of-function research in Wuhan that created COVID, no, it's bigger than that.

They are thanking Dr. Fauci for the gift of life which he alone bestows.

What you're seeing here is Washington's new religion, it's Fauciism, so it shouldn't surprise you that this year once again, our moral leaders are asking Dr. Fauci the very same question, Christmas is coming, can we celebrate it?

Before we go through the hassle of booking plane tickets, renting cars, buying presents for our loved ones, preparing to celebrate the central holiday of the country's biggest religion, please, let us know, Dr. Fauci. Is it on or off? Have we been naughty or nice? Tell us.

This year, the job of asking that question fell to an anchor at CBS News and this, Sunday, she asked Dr. Fauci. Here is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARGARET BRENNAN, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: But we can gather for Christmas or it's just too soon to tell?

FAUCI: You know, Margaret, it's just too soon to tell. We've just got to concentrate on continuing to get those numbers down and not try to jump ahead by weeks or months and say what we're going to do at a particular time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: It really depends on how you behave, whether you're naughty or nice. At this point, it's just too soon to tell whether you can have Christmas this year.

And in hearing that, the news lady just nods. Of course, it's all perfectly normal. We'll check back with you, Dr. Fauci. Keep doing science as only you can.

And of course, that's exactly what Tony Fauci plans to do. It's what he's done with his life.

Last week, Fauci had to unravel this scientific puzzle: Are the hundreds of thousands of sneezing unvaccinated illegal immigrants coming into this country every month driving a spike in COVID cases? Could that be happening?

Figuring that out was Anthony Fauci's job, as a scientist. Fauci's scientific conclusion, well, here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Are immigrants a major reason why COVID-19 is spreading in the U.S.?

FAUCI: No, absolutely not, Dana. I mean, if you just look at the data and look at the people who've gotten infected, look at the people who are in the hospital, look at the people who've died, this is not driven by immigrants.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: What -- fashionable people getting COVID? No, absolutely not, Dana. The sneezing unvaccinated migrants streaming across our Southern border from around the world are absolutely fine. In fact from a public health perspective, they are great people like BLM rioters, but very much unlike Donald Trump voters.

In fact, these people may be the solution to this pandemic. If we're going to beat this COVID thing, we're going to need a few hundred thousand more people from Haiti, ASAP. They know a thing or two about public health.

Thanks, Dr. Fauci.

Meanwhile, other non-religious data tell a somewhat different story. The latest figures from immigration officials show that fully 18 percent of illegal migrants leaving Border Patrol custody have tested positive for COVID. That doesn't even include the unknown, but very large numbers who never wound up in Border Patrol custody.

More than 25 percent of migrants who were quote "recently scheduled" for some expedited deportation flights have tested positive for COVID. What percentage of these people are vaccinated? None.

But let's face reality here, Fauci said. None of that's a problem. The real problem is you and your silly demands to see your family for Christmas or to be with your aging parents as they die in the hospital. That's the problem -- and how you vote.

Our public health establishment strongly agrees with this.

As Tony Fauci spoke, the C.D.C. rolled out new guidance to match. They cautioned that people should hold quote "virtual holiday celebrations or have socially distant celebrations outdoors" at the end of December.

We're doing all this, keep in mind, for a virus with a median age of death that is higher than life expectancy in the United States and also in the United Kingdom, let that sink in.

In the State of Ohio for example, where the life expectancy is 73, the median age of death from COVID is 79. That's just public health. But here's the funny thing, not everyone wanted to hear that we need to cancel Christmas it. Turns out outside of network newsrooms, Christmas remains stubbornly popular in this country and if there's one thing Tony Fauci responds to, it's public opinion.

Now, Fauci is on television nearly constantly, not simply because he is brilliant and an amazing talker, and not at all because he is totally self- absorbed and love to hear himself speak, but because it's his job as a public health official and so he responded this way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: That was misinterpreted as my saying we can't spend Christmas with our families, which is absolutely not the case. I will be spending Christmas with my family. I encourage people particularly the vaccinated people who are protected to have a good normal Christmas with your family.

But just the way all of the other disinformation goes around, you say something, talking about a landmark of a time and it gets misinterpreted that I'm saying you can't spend family Christmas time, which is nonsense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: So when I said it's too soon to tell whether or not you can celebrate Christmas, what I really meant was, of course, you can celebrate Christmas. What are you, stupid?

So Tony Fauci didn't misspeak. You're an idiot for misunderstanding what he said. You're being very naughty.

Now, this is a strategy Tony Fauci has employed before. Just a year ago, Fauci told us that quote, "Herd immunity would eventually end the pandemic once 60 to 70 percent of Americans are either vaccinated or develop natural immunity." Fauci told us, we'd be done, we'd be safe.

And then out of nowhere, the slogans on the side of the barn got repainted, but no one acknowledged it. Fauci started quoting a higher number in television interviews. He started saying 70 to 75 percent of people with immunity, at that point will be good.

And then the number rose again. Fauci changed it to quote "80, 85 percent."

Now in December, a reporter at "The New York Times," their job is to report the news, noticed this and asked Fauci about the changing numbers. According to the paper quote, "In a telephone interview, Fauci acknowledged that he had slowly but deliberately been moving the goal post."

"He is doing so, he said, partly based on new science, but partly on his gut feeling that the country is finally ready to hear what he really thinks."

Oh, now he is telling us what he really thinks. We weren't ready for it before. We just weren't prepared for the truth.

But as we grow in our faith, Fauci can lay more profundities on us.

So yes, he was lying, but it's only because you can't handle the truth and the media agree with that completely. They've been repeating that message for months now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So Dr. Anthony Fauci, the target of an escalating right-wing smear campaign.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Scientists should not be under siege like.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, Josh Hawley have all taken up Dr. Fauci as a boogeyman.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: The increasing demonization of Dr. Fauci by Donald Trump and his minions in the Republican Party is growing. It is obsessive --

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: And watch what they are doing to Tony Fauci right now, because he is the new Hillary Clinton for them. They are making him the pinata of all of their disaffection and their upset.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: In one America, Dr. Anthony Fauci is trusted and even immortalized. In the other America though, he is tarnished and distrusted.

How did Dr. Fauci of all people, become a right-wing boogeyman?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Here is what they're doing on FOX News to make Tony Fauci into a right-wing boogeyman. Here is how he is the subject of a right-wing smear campaign.

What they're doing is they're quoting him. Okay, and they're comparing his quotes from yesterday to his quotes from three months ago to his quotes from a year ago and they know that that they don't all add up. That's a smear campaign.

But as CNN's media analyst pointed out in half of America, Tony Fauci is immortalized and that is true. It's not just the yard signs, it's the Tony Fauci flags, the Tony Fauci ornaments, the Tony Fauci clothing, the Tony Fauci welcome mats. You can find it all online.

Now people are getting Tony Fauci tattoos, tattoos showing the date they got vaccinated per Fauci's orders. Some Fauci disciples are literally tattooing vaccine cards on their arms, but that's not weird, it's just faith.

On MSNBC, this is what Tony Fauci worship looks like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: I could watch Tony Fauci spit truth at the disinformation elves on Capitol Hill all day long.

Tony Fauci who under normal Presidents is this trusted and usually beloved adviser who has an encyclopedic memory and knowledge.

Last night going after Tony Fauci, while it was predictable, was still an abhorrent and pretty brazenly political effort.

It's the muzzling of Dr. Tony Fauci who is respected, revered, I dare say in the medical community on Capitol Hill and trusted by the public.

But this man is a jewel. He is an international treasure, not just a national treasure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: He is Jesus with better shoes. The muzzling. He was only on MSNBC six times this week. You can't stop this man. He is god.

And you know who agrees with that? Tony Fauci does.

As Tony Fauci reminded us in June, Tony Fauci is not simply an international treasure. He is the physical embodiment of science.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: So if you are trying to, you know, get at me as a public health official and a scientist, you're really attacking not only Dr. Anthony Fauci, you're attacking science.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Oh, there it was, the third person self-reference. Fidel Castro in English, but that wasn't a slip of the tongue, Fauci meant every word of it. Tony Fauci is himself a devout member of the Church of Tony Fauci.

Now take a look at this still photo from Tony Fauci's home office. Look in the back on the bookshelf. Do you see? What is that right there? Those are tony Fauci prayer candles prominently displayed inside Tony Fauci's home.

Oh well at least he's real. Fauci isn't just the High Priest of Fauciism, he is also a true believer himself.

Now Ron Johnson by contrast is just a Lutheran. He is a member of the United States Senate from Wisconsin and we're happy to have him on tonight.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

Now, at a certain point, look I think you probably needed someone like Tony Fauci to guide the country through -- you know, a point man to explain COVID in the early months of it. But at this point, nearly two years in, you wonder why Tony Fauci has anything at all to do with our COVID policy. Do you know the answer?

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Well, he has been set up on a pedestal and basically I refer to them as the COVID gods, but Tucker, I think the question by the way you laid out the case against him quite well -- the lies, the flip-flopping.

But I think the question you have to ask about Tony Fauci and quite honestly, the other people in our healthcare agencies is, have their policy prescriptions, have they worked? We have more than 700,000 people dead now. We spent trillions of dollars, the human toll, the economic devastation.

We're at each other's throats now with these divisive mandates that are going to destroy our healthcare system, destroy our military readiness. Their policy prescriptions have been a miserable failure and the biggest blunder of all, they ignored early treatment, they sabotaged early treatment.

Now, they're all hopping on board this Merck, molnupiravir. The doctors' groups that I'm dealing with, they call it money-piravir. Now, Merck by the way invented or they patented ivermectin. They've been trash talking ivermectin in favor now of this drug that'll be like $700.00 a dose versus ivermectin costs about six or seven cents a pill.

So, again, you have to take a look at his record which of course the mainstream media will never do. These people will never admit they were wrong and they've got the power to make sure that they're never proven wrong.

There is something very sinister going on here, Tucker and it has cost tens if not hundreds of thousands of people their lives.

CARLSON: I think you make a series of great points, but the first one is just kind of indelible. You've had almost 700 000 people die. Is there any evidence that any of these measures, which really have reshaped the country completely have saved a huge number of lives? I mean, if we had just ignored it, would many more than 700,000 have died? Sincere question.

JOHNSON: I doubt it, but I'm sure they'll come up with the science to prove that they've saved all kinds of lives. Science has been corrupted. Our medical system has been corrupted.

Now, I put a chart on the Senate floor last week that showed the pandemic was winding down before the vaccines ever had a chance to take off. Now, you'd expect on that chart that the pandemic would have continued to wind down, it didn't. We've had this huge delta surge and again, the blunder was the fact that we completely ignored and sabotaged early treatments.

There is literally a cornucopia of different drugs and multi-drug treatment that -- there are hundreds of doctors that actually have the courage and compassion to treat patients, they've been saving lives, but now they can't even get some of these drugs because it has been so corrupted.

CARLSON: Boy, I don't know why you're the only one saying this, but I'm grateful that you are. Senator Ron Johnson, talk about rising to the occasion. I appreciate your coming on tonight. Thanks very much.

JOHNSON: Can I make -- can I make one more point, Tucker?

CARLSON: Of course.

JOHNSON: It's important. These mandates are driven by the bait and switch of the F.D.A. that we now have an approved vaccine. We do not have an approved vaccine in America. They did it for the culminate, it's available I guess in Europe, but the Pfizer vaccine available in the U.S. is not F.D.A. approved, it's got an emergency user authorization.

I wrote a letter to the F.D.A. on August 26th, they have still not given me the answer of why didn't they approve it? Why are they basically lying to the American public? That's a serious question to be asked as we're destroying our healthcare system with these mandates.

CARLSON: At some point, we're going to learn the depth of the lies and I think it's going to be shocking to everyone, even those of us who have a low opinion of the people making these decisions.

Senator Johnson, thank you very much.

JOHNSON: Have a good night.

CARLSON: So if you want to know how little they actually care about the spread of COVID, they've kept our Southern border open throughout. Many people coming across are infected with the virus. FOX's Bill Melugin has some remarkable footage showing where these migrants are winding up in this country. He joins us tonight. Hey, Bill.

BILL MELUGIN, FOX NEWS CHANNEL NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Tucker. Good evening to you. So right now, we are just down the street from a residential neighborhood and when the sun goes down here, all this brush you see behind me, it'll start to come to life with illegal immigrants who are actively running away and hiding from Border Patrol.

We want to show you what that looks like. Take a look at this footage we shot last night and into the early morning hours. We were embedded with a Texas DPS trooper who was on the hunt for these runners, people who do not want to be caught, and let me tell you, I am not exaggerating when I say they were all over the place.

You can see from the video, young single adults hiding in the brush, a lot of them lying face down, some of them wearing camouflage. It almost got to the point where you had to kind of watch where you were walking throughout the brush because it was so dark you didn't want to step on anybody.

But this one DPS Trooper was able to get about five or six of them. Border Patrol was in the area as well. These again are all single adult men for the most part. These are the guys who do not want to be caught because they know if they are caught, they are going to be sent back via Title 42, the question is how many of them get -- how many of them end up getting through?

Because again, Border Patrol stretched incredibly thin throughout this crisis and there is one residential neighborhood literally just across the street from where we are.

We'll send it back to you.

CARLSON: What a horrifying moment this is and you've chronicled it better than anyone. Bill Melugin for us, thank you.

MELUGIN: Thanks.

CARLSON: Several the people arrested by the government after January 6 became effectively political prisoners. They were terrorized in their homes. They were thrown into solitary confinement.

One of them was a former Lieutenant Commander of the United States Navy. He joins us next to describe what has happened to him.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: You hear endlessly about January 6th, the QAnon insurrection, but almost everything you hear about that day is general and florid. The overstatement overshadows everything. You rarely hear details about what actually happened to specific people. Well, here is a story you should know.

Thomas Caldwell was in Washington that day. He is a former Lieutenant Commander in the United States Navy. A few days later, on January 19th, a SWAT team with armored vehicles showed up at his home. Officers pointed rifles in his face and took him to jail. He spent 49 days in solitary confinement.

What he went through is described in a fantastic new piece by Julie Kelly in "American Greatness."

Initially prosecutors accused Caldwell of plotting an attack on the Capitol even though he never even went inside the Capitol Building on January 6th. He is now in home detention awaiting trial.

Lieutenant Commander Thomas Caldwell joins us tonight with his wife, Sharon Caldwell. Thank you both very much for coming on tonight.

LT. COM. THOMAS CALDWELL (RET), U.S. NAVY: Anytime.

SHARON CALDWELL, WIFE OF LT. COM. THOMAS CALDWELL: Thank you.

CARLSON: So very quickly, the facts of your case. You didn't go inside the Capitol. You spent 49 days in solitary confinement in prison. Tell us what they're charging you with, exactly, if you would?

T. CALDWELL: Well, it's really interesting, Tucker, because they made me the poster boy. I was Defendant Number One in a conspiracy. They said I conspired and I actually put together a military-style attack on the Capitol, that I stormed into the Capitol and did all these terrible things. They even claimed I threatened our lawfully elected representatives in Congress.

Total claptrap, but they sent that information all around the world, across all the media platforms. Interestingly enough, while I was languishing in the prison in solitary confinement not knowing when I was going to get out, Sharon found us our current lawyer, Mr. David Fisher and David Fisher immediately started doing lawyer stuff, like looking for the truth and doing some research.

And when he did that, he went to the government and he said, how about showing me some evidence? And when they couldn't produce it, they immediately changed their position.

Now they say the exact opposite of what they said. Originally, they claimed I was the Commander of the Oath Keepers. That I did this terrible thing to go inside and I created a plan to attack Congress. Now, they admit, no, Tommy, you really didn't do that. You weren't the Commander of the Oath Keepers, not a leader, not even a member.

Now, they seem to be very nice people, but I'm not part of that organization.

Then they continued to do their flip-flop and they said, you know, I guess you didn't really go in and I guess, you didn't really develop a plan to attack.

But still, Tucker, we're mired in a legal battle against the government with no end in sight and what they're doing is they're driving forward. You know the story about how the SWAT team came, traumatized Sharon and I. They've decimated our finances. Have you heard that before?

And right now, where we are although, we're Christians and we believe that God has us in the palm of His hand, things are not looking all that great and we're at the really -- the edge of losing our family farm, the same farm that I grew up on where we're broadcasting from tonight.

CARLSON: You think of all the people in Congress who support what has happened to you, it's just -- it's -- you know, Liz Cheney ought to be ashamed and I hope she is watching this. Mrs. Caldwell, what did you think when armed men took your husband away and put him in solitary confinement for 49 days?

S. CALDWELL: I really didn't know what to think. I was so shocked and surprised when the SWAT team shows up at our house and you know, my husband and I went to D.C. on January 6th as husband and wife. I mean, we considered it an outing. You know a couple of days in D.C., just a husband and wife -- I hate to say a fun thing to do -- but you know at that time, you know we didn't even anticipate that there were going to be any riots or anything like that.

So you know, we just wanted to hear the President speak one last time and then, like you said, a few days later, this SWAT team shows up and it is surreal, it's just absolutely surreal, this whole experience.

I still -- I can't -- I cannot believe it -- I never thought in a million years that anything like this would happen to us. I can't even -- you can't even conceive of it and I still wake up some days and I just -- I think, is this really happening? Is this really happening? I just -- it does not seem real and when he was taken away from me, I -- when he didn't come home right away, I mean, I really thought he was going to be bonded out and he'd be home and I knew, okay, we've got to get this straightened out somehow. There must be some misunderstanding.

But, you know, he was still there about two months later, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I really thought -- I really thought that, you know he is one hundred percent service disabled veteran. He has given everything for this country that he loves and he has serious, serious health issues.

I mean he can hardly walk sometimes. He is in so much chronic pain every single day and I thought I'd never see him again. I thought I'd never see him again. I thought he was going to die in prison. I'm sorry.

CARLSON: I just hope -- I hope I hope you crush these people and we're going to follow your case and I hope that you both will come back.

S. CALDWELL: Thank you.

CARLSON: It's shocking this could happen in our country.

S. CALDWELL: Thank you, if I may, please, for further information about our case, we've got a lot of great, great information on our website. If you want to learn more, please go to our website, saveourfarmva.com, saveourfarmva.com.

And if you'd like to help us with our legal expenses, you can do that there, too. Thank you so much.

T. CALDWELL: Thanks for having us, Tucker.

CARLSON: Lieutenant Commander Thomas Caldwell and Sharon Caldwell, thank you both for joining us tonight.

S. CALDWELL: Thank you.

T. CALDWELL: Thank you.

CARLSON: So at the height of the BLM lunacy, activists at UCLA, the college, demanded that their professors grade black students more leniently than white students. One professor said no and he was punished for it. He is now suing UCLA, he joins us next.

Plus Candace Owens is here to explain who is behind an effort to defund the police department, yet another in a major city. That's all ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Gordon Klein is a long time professor at UCLA. In the summer of last year, in the middle of the BLM riots, a student e-mailed Klein with the demand. He told Klein to grade black students with quote "more leniency" than other students. Of course, Klein said no.

Within three days, UCLA suspended Professor Klein. He was not reinstated for several weeks. Now, he is suing UCLA.

Professor Klein joins us tonight. Professor, thanks so much for coming on.

GORDON KLEIN, UCLA PROFESSOR: Tucker, thanks for having me on.

CARLSON: The whole story is so crazy, it's hard to believe it's real. Was your intro correct? The school punished you because you insist on grading people on their performance?

KLEIN: Yes, can you believe it? It's in the rulebook. Grade people based on merit, it's in the rulebook. Never discriminate. I've lived my life never discriminating.

I was grotesquely offended by the condescending nature of what this student said to me. I posed questions to him to get him to rethink his position. The student was content with it. He said rhetorical questions, I'm cool with that. He got back to studying, got a grade of A in my class, and I thought the thing was over.

But the university decided they wanted to spot a racist or at least an alleged racist and they decided they've got a horrible reputation for racism, bias, and incivility within the Anderson School of Management where I teach, and so they decided that they'd make an example out of me to rehabilitate their own reputation as a publicity stunt, and that's all it was.

CARLSON: So because you refused to take account of race, they called you a racist. Does your suit --

KLEIN: I know, it is bizarre. You almost have to say --

CARLSON: Yes.

KLEIN: You almost have to say it several times. They called me a racist because I quoted Martin Luther King in support of a color blind society.

CARLSON: I've lived that so I know that is true does. Your suit, which we're praying for fervently have any hope of prevailing, do you think?

KLEIN: Oh, it not only has hope of prevailing, keep in mind I've been a law faculty member there for a number of years. I've been a superior court referee appointed by judges. I know the law. I know the legal system. I earn my income as a legal expert witness.

Does it have a chance of prevailing? If I get a fair hearing, it has a 100 percent chance of prevailing and the university should be shaking in its boots right now. In fact the irony is they hire me to teach law and ethics to students and guess what? I'm now going to teach them a lesson in law and ethics.

CARLSON: Well, I love this so much. If you win I hope you'll come back to celebrate with us. I really do. Gordon Klein, Professor, thank you.

KLEIN: I would love to.

CARLSON: Well you are welcome. You are definitely -- we'll have the party hats. Thank you.

KLEIN: You've got it.

CARLSON: So if you watch our leaders in Congress carefully, there is no sense at all that they go outside or know how much the country has changed. The Republican Party doesn't seem that interested in what's happening at the border. Why is that?

A fascinating conversation may explain it. That's just ahead.

Right now on tuckercarlson.com, by the way, you can get the new book. Amazon takes no cut, we're proud to say.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: We talk to Victor Davis Hanson a lot on this show and almost every time we wish we had more time. One of the wisest people we know, and one of the most articulate.

Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. We sat down with him for more than an hour for "Tucker Carlson Today." Here is part of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICTOR DAVIS HANSON, SENIOR FELLOW, HOOVER INSTITUTION: I didn't know much about Donald Trump. I wasn't a supporter of his in the primaries, but I knew he was going to win. I just knew it.

Because he was saying things I could not believe and you know, we're going to redo Youngstown, Ohio and then he came to California and talked to a bunch of farmers and I said, well, did he come here and did he have the straw in the mouth and the caterpillar cap and had the hay bit -- no, he had this black suit, it was 105 degrees and he had a queen's -- so I said in other words, he wasn't Hillary Clinton, you know or Joe Biden, put you all in chains or brought -- he didn't change his act.

I said he is authentic and he's representing the middle class, so I thought he had a very good chance, but as far as your other question. Yes, I lost all of those friends.

I left "National Review" this year after 20 years and I think they were happy to see me leave, too.

CARLSON: Why did you leave "National Review"?

HANSON: Because there were certain issues that would pop up occasionally and I could predict what the answer was going to be. The Covington kids, I just sensed that before we knew anything, people would come and condemn them or the "Access Hollywood" --

CARLSON: People at "National Review" condemned --

HANSON: Because I think there were certain people in the Republican movement or establishment who felt it's their duty to internally police their own and that's kind of a virtue signal to the left. We are just part of your class, we share the same values as you do and we keep our crazies and they're not empirical.

You saw it on January 6th. I mean, we all condemned that buffoonish riot, but within two weeks, I said to myself Ashli Babbitt was shot unarmed and we don't know anything about the policeman. We don't know anything about the report.

When a policeman shoots somebody who is unarmed, there are pictures everywhere.

CARLSON: There was no warning by the way.

HANSON: No.

CARLSON: He just shot her.

HANSON: They are having Officer Sicknick lie in state, but I want to know where the evidence is that he was killed. He wasn't killed. He died of a stroke or some type of --

CARLSON: So "National Review" wasn't on that, huh?

HANSON: No, no and then there wasn't an armed insurrection. There were no weapons found on the people who were arrested. They're not even being charged and tried with dispatch. They're sitting in purgatory and so these issues, I would get angry about and I tried to convey that anger, but I think they felt that many -- I can't say they all, but I think a lot of them felt it was their duty as Republican establishmentarians to tell the world they didn't approve of Donald Trump's tweets or his crudity and that was --

My message was always, but it's good for the middle class.

CARLSON: Yes.

HANSON: And he's kind of like a Shane or Magnificent Seven or High Noon. He is a gunslinger we hired and we're the townspeople that are impotent and he came in with certain skills and he started to have success and now we have the luxury of saying, we don't like the fact that he has a sixth gun. But he has not ridden -- you know he has to ride off in the sunset.

But they didn't -- there were other issues I think that they felt were more important and so I think, it was a good parting for both of us and so --

CARLSON: What issues do they think are important?

HANSON: I don't know. I think there's an image that a lot of Republicans, have both in politics and they sort of represent a sober and judicious way of looking at the world and we are the adults in the room and it's more about a culture than it is an ideology and the original Republican conservative movement I thought was going to be, we're going to go back and look at the Constitution.

When Jefferson said, you know, it won't work if you pile up everybody in the cities because you'll be subject to mass hysterias or you look at Tocqueville. I mean, certain ideas. I thought that's what we were and I thought they would be champions of the middle class, but I don't think they were. I don't think they wanted to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Victor Davis Hanson's new book "The Dying Citizen" is out tomorrow. You can watch the full interview on "Tucker Carlson Today." It's on FOX Nation.

Well, George Soros is behind a new effort to remove police officers from yet another major city because that works well. Many die. We'll tell you where that's happening, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Geniuses in the city government of Austin, Texas last year cut the city's police budget. Now the police have announced they are not able to respond to crimes that are non-emergencies, meaning if the perpetrator has already left the scene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH CHACON, INTERIM AUSTIN POLICE CHIEF: If you are experiencing a non- emergency call and I will be going over specifically the ones that we have changed, then what we ask that you do is to report those either over the phone by calling 3-1-1 or by doing it at online at ireportaustin.com.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: In other words, you're no longer going to fulfill the most basic duty of government, which is to keep you safe. Just go to the website. Good luck there. That's insane. People actually live in Austin and put forward a new ballot proposal to fix it, it's called Proposition A. It would hire more police officers like the ones they used to have.

Oh but wait, George Soros doesn't like that. George Soros doesn't live in Austin, but he'd like to destroy it, so an advocacy group that he has founded just dumped a half a million dollars into a campaign to defeat that measure.

Candace Owens is the host of "Candace." She joins us tonight to unravel this mystery. So, here -- Candace, thanks so much for coming on tonight.

So here, George Does not live in Austin, Texas. I don't think he ever has. He is not actually from this country originally, why would he want Austin, Texas to have fewer police officers on the street?

CANDACE OWENS, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's a very good question and first and foremost I'm so tired of the left pretending like we've picked George Soros to be our boogeyman, like oh, he is not a bad guy, but there goes the right talking about George Soros.

Every time this man spends money, it is towards an effort that is going to undo American civilization. Notoriously obviously, he had funded Black Lives Matter, all the rioting, all the protests, the Open Foundation Society, which is his foundation gave money to all these causes and you ask yourself why?

He is a billionaire. If he wanted to help people or help black people he doesn't need to give to Black Lives Matter, he can give it to tons of other causes that actually do work to help black people and don't destroy their communities.

But here we have him again in the same type of initiative going against police officers and you ask yourself why. Well you know, if I'm going to fathom an idea or theory as to why he is doing this, George Soros is a man that made his money in investments, so we have to ask ourselves, what is he doing? What is he invested in that his investments would go long?

He would do well in his investments if America was undone, if major cities were undone. I don't know? Maybe he's going long on China. Why would he benefit from an America that doesn't really exist?

I've also said this to you many times in the past, Tucker, and I want to say it again. I think that the leftist after more than anything is the federalization of the police force. I've been saying this over and over again.

Look at the American story right now, it is the exact same story of every country that has converted from a capitalist thriving society into a socialist society. They need to federalize the police force to make sure that the Federal government has the most control. It's the only thing that makes sense.

Again the question, why does George Soros want to see that? Why does George Soros want to see the collapse of America? Well, he has to be invested in a country that isn't America.

CARLSON: I think that's a really good hypothesis. I think, also there is hate at the core of this? I mean why would you systematically go to cities you've never lived in and make them more dangerous? You know that's going to result in more murders, everyone -- I mean, it's not complicated, but you do it anyway.

You clearly are angry at the country.

OWENS: Yes, or you're just a person that wants to make money. I think -- I really do believe that money is the root of all evil and I think that George Soros is a person that cares passionately about money. I think he cares about becoming successful.

I don't think hate is enough to drive George Soros. Of course, at the core of this is always hate, right? You have to hate America. You have to hate America to decide -- or at least not care for it very much.

CARLSON: That's right.

OWENS: But the sad part is, is that the people that are suffering are the people that live in Austin, people that have lived there for so long, who are now suffering, who are fearful that they're not going to have a police force, a local police force that can protect its citizens. They want things to get so bad in Austin, so bad in New York, so bad in Chicago that just like Lori Lightfoot is calling for in Chicago, we need help. Send in reinforcements, please. Somebody send something from the Federal level.

I think you're going to see that happening a lot across this country.

CARLSON: But the real crime is criticizing a billionaire. You can't do that. You're a bigot.

OWENS: Exactly. Oh yes, you can't say anything about him.

CARLSON: No criticizing the billionaires.

OWENS: Over and over again. Yes, absolutely.

CARLSON: I love it.

OWENS: I mean, I remember I criticized him and talked about his money as well and they accuse you of being anti-Semitic and I'm like I didn't originally even know that he was Jewish. I'm talking about where he is spending his money. It's not good.

CARLSON: A lot of people are intimidated, you're not though. Candace Owens, appreciate your coming on tonight. Thank you.

OWENS: Thank you.

CARLSON: So you just heard what George Soros is trying to do the City of Austin, Texas. You can find out what effect he's had in the City of Chicago. We did a whole episode of it. It's on "Tucker Carlson Originals." It's called "Chicago in Crisis." It's streaming now on FOX Nation.

Also this December, we have an entire episode that focuses on how George Soros is harming civilization around the world. We went to Hungary to find out. That's going to be worth watching.

We'll see you tomorrow night.

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