Tucker: Big Tech's coordinated suppression amounts to a 'censorship cartel'

close

Video

Tucker: Big Tech's coordinated suppression amounts to a 'censorship cartel'

'Tucker Carlson Tonight' host exposes American corporations for teaming up to censor political opponents

Nov. 17, 2020 – This is a rush transcript from “Tucker Carlson Tonight” November 17, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST:  Good evening, and welcome to TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT. So, did you take a moment from your busy life to turn on the hearings on Capitol Hill today with the Silicon Valley CEOs? Don't be embarrassed if you didn't. You probably didn't. 

No matter how worried you worry about Big Tech and obviously you should be gravely concerned, you may have decided to skip today's spectacle and fold the laundry or called your in-laws instead, and we don't judge you for that. 

Previous hearings on Big Tech have not produced a lot. Elderly senators who can't manage to send their own text messages wagging their fingers in the face of sneering billionaire tech oligarchs in San Francisco, all of whom seem to understand that no matter what happens inside the hearing room, they will get to continue doing whatever they want to do because they have got all the money. 

We've seen that a number of times, it seems pointless. In fact, it seems insulting to the rest of us. 

And in the end, today's hearings may prove just as pointless, we'll find out. But for one brief moment today, you got the feeling that maybe actual progress was being made. Maybe the good guys might not be entirely lame. 

That moment came when Senator Josh Hawley asked Mark Zuckerberg, the CEO of Facebook, about an internal tool that his company has developed called Centra. 

Hawley knew about Centra because a whistleblower told him. They told him how it works. 

Facebook employees use Centra to spy on users even when those users are not using Facebook. Centra gives Facebook access to troves of personal data, including the pages users visit and the accounts they have linked to Facebook. 

You didn't know about this, because all of it happens in secret. It's probably not even legal. 

So today at the hearings, Josh Hawley confronted Mark Zuckerberg about this. And here's how it went. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO):  Centra is a tool that Facebook uses to track its users not just on Facebook, but across the entire internet. Centra tracks different profiles that a user visits, their message recipients, their linked accounts, the pages they visit around the web. Mr. Zuckerberg, how many accounts in the United States have been subject to review and shut down through Centra? 

MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, FACEBOOK:  Senator, I do not know because I am not actually familiar with the name of that tool. I'm sure that we have tools that help us with our platform and community integrity work, but I am not familiar with that name. 

HAWLEY:  Do you have a tool that does exactly what I've described and that you can see here over my shoulder? Or are you saying that doesn't exist? 

ZUCKERBERG:  Senator, I'm saying that I'm not familiar with it. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON:  "I'm not familiar with it, Senator." But hold on a second, Mark Zuckerberg, you run the company. You started it and Centra sounds like a pretty big deal. Are you saying that Centra doesn't exist? Well, no, it turns out that's not what they are saying. 

Just hours ago, a Facebook spokesperson admitted to FOX News that Centra is indeed real. And according to that spokesperson, Centra is quote, "Used to centralize and aid investigations into complex subjects like coordinated inauthentic behavior," end quote. "Coordinated, inauthentic behavior," hard to pronounce, you may never have heard of it. 

It's otherwise known as astroturfing. That's the process of creating fake grassroots political movements, sometimes by foreign governments. It's something a left claims to be very concerned about. 

In other words, Centra is yet another long term consequence of the Russia hoax. So Adam Schiff gets hysterical, but Vladimir Putin and then Facebook gets to spy on you without your knowledge and then sell the data they gather. 

Perfect. But somehow, Mark Zuckerberg who runs the company said he had no idea it was going on. And Centra wasn't the only secret internal data gathering tool that Zuckerberg claimed to be ignorant of. 

Senator Hawley also asked him about another internal Facebook program called Tasks. According to Senator Hawley's whistleblowers, Tasks allows Facebook's censorship teams to quote, "Communicate with their counterparts at Twitter and Google and then enter those companies suggestions for censorship onto the task platform so that Facebook can then follow up with them and effectively coordinate their censorship efforts." 

Got that? They're all in it together. The tech companies amount to a censorship cartel.  

Mark Zuckerberg did not deny this, instead, he conceded it would be, quote, "Probably pretty normal for people to talk to their peers in the industry."

And so yes, it is all real. Silicon Valley acts as one. 

The tech oligarchs join forces to censor their political opponents. You may be one of them. You weren't being paranoid to worry about this. You were absolutely right. 

Is the hair on your arm standing up yet? Chris Coons isn't worried. He was thrilled to hear it. He wants more. 

Coons is a senator from Delaware. H is a former Joe Biden staffer, actually. The press routinely describes Chris Coons as moderate, not because of what he says but because of how he says it. Chris Coons is boring, therefore, he must be reasonable. That's the thinking.  

But in fact, Chris Coons is not reasonable. He is a power hungry lunatic who doesn't believe in the First Amendment. Of course, Chris Coons went to Yale Law School. Ever know someone who went to Yale Law School who acknowledges the Bill of Rights? What's that Constitutional Law class like at Yale Law School? We should find out. 

Watch Chris Coons push Mark Zuckerberg in the hearings today for even more censorship. According to Chris Coons, there's not enough. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE):  You do, Mr. Dorsey, have policies against deep fakes or manipulated media against COVID-19 misinformation, against things that violate civic integrity, but you don't have a standalone climate change misinformation policy. Why not? 

Helping to disseminate climate denialism in my view, further facilitates and accelerates one of the greatest existential threats to our world. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON:  So that was to Jack Dorsey who runs Twitter. And Chris Coons'

point was really simple. People who disagree with Chris Coons are, quote, "an existential threat to our world." They must be silenced. So who are these people that Chris Coons doesn't believe should be allowed to speak in public? 

Well, plenty of them would be credentialed scientists who might have legitimate questions about Chris Coons' global warming theories. 

Chris Coons is a lawyer who spent the last 20 years in government.

Everything he knows about climate, he learned from an issue of "The Atlantic" magazine he picked up at the airport newsstand. Chris Coons is a non-expert if there ever was one. 

But under the standard he is demanding and demanded today in Congress, the social media monopolies would censor anyone who questions his shallow, silly views on one of the most complex areas of known science. That is not a moderate position. It is authoritarianism, and there's a huge cost to the rest of us. 

This is censorship. Censorship doesn't simply kill expression, though it does, censorship kills thinking and innovation and wisdom. Censorship inexorably leads to self-censorship. 

People quickly learn what they are allowed to express and what they are allowed to believe, and so they stop asking questions even of themselves.

Their minds become narrower. They stop creating. Art dies. Banality takes its place. Science, which depends on free inquiry becomes impossible. 

Does that sound familiar to you? It's where we are right now. 

But that's not a problem for people like Chris Coons. His main concern is how to control an inquisitive population. Coons will be delighted with a country that cannot think for itself, a nation of passive consumers that takes its orders from tech oligarchs and quants in the finance world. Shut up and obey or we will make you be quiet. That's the message they are sending collectively. 

A lot of us expected something different to happen. The election is over.

The billionaire party got what it wanted. So why can't they take the boot off our neck? No chance. They are just getting started. 

In the past two weeks, Corporate America has rushed to consolidate its control over information and dissent in this country. We could give you countless examples of that. Here are a few. 

The e-mail delivery service MailChimp announced it is refusing to provide service -- e-mail -- to the Northern Virginia Tea Party. Why? The company cites potential misinformation. It turns out the Tea Party had attempted to notify its members about a recount rally by e-mail. But that's not allowed anymore. MailChimp banned them along with other conservative organizations.

They are not allowed to use e-mail. 

PayPal and Airbnb have done the same thing. They've taken out accounts belonging to conservatives because they don't like the message. But the message they are sending is really simple. If you want to live a normal life here, send an e-mail, transfer money, rent an apartment, you had better be on the right side. 

How is that different from what happens in China? Call us and let us know if you can spot the difference, we can. 

Abigail Shrier, who we talked to yesterday on the show got an unexpected PhD in political repression recently. Amazon cut off advertisements for her book. The book is on the huge spike in transgender identification among teenage girls. It's a real thing. She wanted to know why it was happening, so she tried to explain it, but that's not allowed. Target banned her book completely for a time.' 

A lawyer at the ACLU, which of course, used to defend civil liberties cheered that decision and said the book should be burned. 

Meanwhile, in the story, very few saw, a major video game company, Ubisoft, erased a voice actor called Helen Lewis from one of its titles, retroactively. They erased her from the picture as the Soviets once did. 

What was her crime? Well, she wrote a forum post that anonymous people on the internet felt was transphobic and so for that, Ubisoft decided that she should never work again anywhere. Even her voice was too offensive for the rest of us to hear. 

The mob then went to work trying to destroy Gina Carano. She is an actress who plays a character called Cara Dune in the TV series, "The Mandalorian."

When she criticized mask mandates and quote "preferred pronouns," they decided she needed to be fired. 

Where is this coming from? Almost nobody likes it. Almost no American supports it. Corporations are behind it, all of it. 

And the point is not to help anyone, much less you. Let's be clear about that. The point is to establish control. They know that they can dictate what you have the right to say about trans-rights or mask mandates. They can dictate when you can say about anything. 

That's unprecedented power. No one in this country has ever had that power.

Our Constitution used to prevent it, but they have it now, and that power will come in handy when they are running the government, which they may soon be. 

Take a look at the people Joe Biden wants to install in the White House in January. So far, Biden has hired a former pharmaceutical and insurance industry lobbyist called Steve Ricchetti to be his chief counselor. He has hired a venture capital executive with close ties to Big Tech called Ron Klain to be his Chief of Staff. 

Biden's Deputy Chief of Staff apparently will be a woman called Jen O'Malley Dillon. She co-founded a consulting company that represented Big Pharma. Biden also, we learned today is bringing on Louisiana lawmaker Cedric Richmond. 

Richmond has been a reliable ally of the fossil fuel industry, which by the way, is quite political these days, and not conservative. Time to update your perceptions on that. Richmond has received more money from the oil and gas industry than virtually anyone else in Congress. 

So corporations are getting more control. And once they run everything, they will control what you say. Where does that leave the politicians and the career bureaucrats? Well, it leaves them free to play the role of petty tyrant, of course, something that they have always wanted, fulfilling their personal desires to impose their will on the rest of us. 

In the State of Michigan, the poor people who live there learned, Governor Whitmer relishes, telling her constituents whether they can hold Thanksgiving dinner, and if they do, she said on Sunday, they are essentially killing people. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI):  If you are considering spending Thanksgiving with people outside of your household, I urge you to reconsider. 

And I hate to say it, but we know that some people will gather anyway. And odds are that some of these gatherings will spread COVID and contribute to the loss of loved ones. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON:  Well, I hate to say it -- well, there is the falsest phrase ever uttered by an American politician. I hate to say it. She doesn't hate to say it. She has been saying it all year. 

In April, Governor Whitmer banned the sale of paint and furniture. What scientist told her to do that? None. She did it because she could. 

Now, she is banning Thanksgiving. What next? And that's not a rhetorical question, by the way. This is more than a slippery slope we're watching happen in real time. 

At a press conference yesterday, the Governor of California, Gavin Newsom emphasized the most important thing here, you need to stay isolated. Yet, he doesn't, Gavin Newsom went to a private birthday party with a dozen people the other day at the French Laundry in Napa. 

But it turns out he wasn't breaking the rules when he did that. No, he wasn't. Settle down. He was just giving you an example of what not to do. 

Gavin Newsom was risking his life for you. He's a COVID martyr. 

Why doesn't anyone appreciate Gavin Newsom? But again, that's immaterial.

We want to restate here the important thing, the essence of science, really, is that you spend the holidays alone. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA):  But I'll remind you, that three pronged approach pre-vaccine was around prevention, testing and isolation. 

Isolation: this is profoundly important. Prevention is one thing. Testing:

what's the purpose of testing besides obviously, identifying people that are positive and building a framework and protocol to protect their health, but also protect others through isolation and quarantine. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON:  There's a lot coming at us right now. But take three steps back, pause, ask yourself: what are we really watching? We are watching something pretty dark, honestly. This isn't the politics we have come to understand in this country. This isn't the usual debate about tax rates or tariff policy. We missed those debates. This is a struggle for the fundamentals. 

Will this remain a free country? Can you disagree with Corporate America and still live here? Would we be allowed to fly on an airplane? Stay in a hotel? Have a credit card? Use e-mail? Will tiny brain Napoleon's like Chris Coons determine what science is and what you can say about it or not.

That's what's on the table right now. 

We understand we just had an election. We understand it is in dispute. We understand there's a lot of news going on at this moment. But nothing matters more than this. It will decide the future. 

Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri is right in the middle of it, as you just saw. He joins us tonight. Senator, thanks a lot for coming on. 

It's sort of an amazing moment, I thought at that hearing today. So explain to us, if you would. Is it legal for tech companies to coordinate to censor the political views of Americans? 

HAWLEY:  I don't know that it is, Tucker. In fact, I think that very old antitrust law, the first one we ever had called the Sherman Act, century old, prevents coordination of these robber baron companies. And that's exactly what they are, by the way, Tucker. These are the most powerful corporations in history. 

And here they are, coordinating about how they are going to stop us from speaking, coordinating about who they are going to ban, coordinating about what phrases will be allowed to trend and whatnot, that we basically caught them red handed. 

I mean, Mark Zuckerberg admitted to me under oath that yes, actually, Facebook's censorship teams do talk to Google and Twitter. And he hastened to add, but oh, we make our own decisions. But he admitted that, yes, actually, they are in coordination and the whistleblower revealed to me that, in fact, they coordinate very, very closely. 

I think this warrants antitrust scrutiny and I'll tell you what, Tucker, it warrants further action by Congress. Congress is going to have to get off its backside and do something here or these corporations are going to run America. 

CARLSON:  Antitrust seems like the one thing they fear. They're not afraid of 230. A lot of the solutions we thought would work to just make this a free country, again, don't seem to intimidate them. But antitrust does seem to intimidate them. 

Do you think there's any chance of forward motion on that? 

HAWLEY:  Well, I think that the Justice Department's antitrust suit against Google that they brought just a few weeks ago is absolutely vital for this reason, Tucker, and I think Congress is going to need to act to update our antitrust laws. 

The truth is, is that those antitrust laws haven't been used as they were meant to be used in decades now, and these companies, these are the most powerful companies we've seen in American history. They are the most powerful companies in the world and it is time that we took them on because our Constitution is quite clear. 

We, the people, are supposed to run this government and this nation, not the big corporations, and unless we do something, they're going to. 

CARLSON:  I never thought I would hear a conservative say what you just said. You are a conservative, and you're also right. And so it's time, I think, for all of us to update our assumptions about what it is to be conservative. 

Senator Hawley, thank you very much. 

HAWLEY:  Thank you. 

CARLSON:  So the tech companies are colluding, the social media companies in particular, but there is an option. John Matze is the founder of Parler.

It is created as an alternative to Twitter. The site has exploded in popularity in the past couple of weeks. John Matze joins us tonight to explain what they are doing over there. 

John, thanks so much for coming out, and congratulations in the massive surge in popularity of your company. Why is Parler, which is still much smaller than Twitter, why are people going there? What is it that you offer that they don't? 

JOHN MATZE, FOUNDER, PARLER:  Well, thank you for having me on, Tucker.

Well, what we are seeing is a massive explosion in growth because people trust that Parler is going to do the right thing. So as opposed to these other companies, where moderation seems to be the norm, on Parler, we have a community jury. This is where the people decide what is allowed and what's not allowed. You're judged by your peers, just like our government allows for people. 

You're innocent before proven guilty, unlike these other platforms that are colluding to, I guess, find things to find you guilty for. 

So, you know, really, we just want to sit back and say social media was supposed to be about the people. It was supposed to be about people having a free voice, being able to be, you know, liberated from restrictions, and so that's what we're here to offer. It is a community Town Square for people to have discussions. 

CARLSON:  I'm really struck by the media response to what you're doing. So, I would say every mentally ill extremist in the world has a Twitter account. I've seen a lot of them. You never hear a word about it on CNN.

You offer an alternative to that, and suddenly, you're the extremist. Why is corporate media so afraid of what you're doing? 

MATZE:  Well, I always ask them, you know, what do you think of the First Amendment? Do you believe that we should have somebody in, you know, New York, let's say in the middle of Times Square telling you what you can and cannot say? Because that's what these companies are doing. 

I don't know why they're so afraid. Maybe it's because they don't like that people are getting power again. You know, you mentioned that Parler was a little bit smaller than Twitter. But you know, we do have people that have comparable, if not larger followings on Parler than they do on Twitter and they are seeing far more engagement. 

You know, there's a neutral algorithm here. You get what you signed up for, and that's it. You know, you get what you expect, and so that's why we are seeing such great engagement, because it's not being curated, like publishers would do, like they are on these other platforms. 

CARLSON:  Now, it's getting huge. That's undeniable. I wonder if you're going to keep your posture going forward. As your company gets big and much more valuable, it's already happening, people are going to attack you as being a home for extremism, and some crazy person says something crazy on your site, there's going to be a whole lot more of that and you're going to come under enormous pressure to censor those voices. What's your response going to be? 

MATZE:  Well, when you go out in public, people say crazy things all the time. Everybody has opinions, and some of them you know, might not be the norm, right? But it's not against the law to have those opinions. It's not against the law to express yourself, you know. 

And if you like one political candidate or another or you believe or don't believe in climate change or whatever it might be, you know, you shouldn't be taken offline because of it. 

CARLSON:  Exactly. Thank you. You just restated the traditional American understanding of free speech which the left defended for decades.

Apparently, they didn't mean it. But it's left to you to continue that noble defense. I appreciate it. John Matze of Parler. Thank you. 

MATZE:  Thank you. 

CARLSON:  So you're hearing politicians all over the country telling you not to celebrate Thanksgiving. They're giving all kinds of restrictions that have no basis whatsoever in science and of course, contravene the Constitution. 

But some brave public officials have decided they're not going along with this. We want to highlight their stories and we're going to after the break. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

CARLSON:  So politicians have now decided they have total power over you.

They can literally decide who comes to Thanksgiving dinner at your house and where they can stand. That's lunatic, it has never happened in American history before, no matter what CNN claims, it hasn't. 

And so the question is what happens if you don't obey? Well, in New York, one county sheriff has an answer to that. Nothing. Nothing will happen.

Because that Sheriff has decided not to enforce Andrew Cuomo's lunatic ban on private gatherings. 

Earlier today, he explained why. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

SHERIFF RICHARD GIARDINO, FULTON COUNTY, NEW YORK:  One of the worst things we are seeing is the isolation of people not being able to engage with other people. Now, there's a big difference between setting a time limit at bars and the number of people at bars and restaurants and social distancing and getting together with your own family. 

Constitutionally, there's some problems with an Executive Order. There's no sanctions. I can't go arrest somebody. They don't get fined. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, he really -- I believe his intent is to try to slow things, but I think it does more damage. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON:  Well, exactly. People need each other. Physical contact is essential. Families need to gather. Thanksgiving is beautiful. That Sheriff is called Richard Giardino and bless him for saying the obvious. 

Thankfully, he is not the only public official who is standing up to this lunacy. In Oregon, a woman called Tootie Smith who will start her term as Chairwoman of the Clackamas Board of County Commissioners in January, made that very clear on Facebook. Here is what she wrote, quote, "My family will celebrate Thanksgiving dinner with as many family and friends as I can find." 

This is an elected official, and she joins us now, Tootie Smith on the show. Thanks so much for coming on. It's funny that that statement would qualify as bravery, but it certainly does, and so congratulations. Why did you write that? 

TOOTIE SMITH, CHAIRWOMAN, CLACKAMAS COUNTY COMMISSION:  Because this is exactly what I felt. It's very heartfelt. 

She issued that edict on Friday. I posted it Saturday morning, thinking about it. This is a travesty that's happening in our state. 

How dare Governor Brown think she is going to come out, send the police into people's homes and arrest them and fine them for having a Thanksgiving meal with their family, while at the same time she allows rioters and anarchists to destroy downtown City of Portland. That's hypocrisy. 

CARLSON:  It is just interesting -- 

SMITH:  We have been in a lockdown. Yes, go ahead, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  Yes, well, but it's just that people like Governor Brown will be the first ones to say politicians keep their hands off my body, and here she is encouraging the police to come into your home on one of the most sacred days of the year and determine who is eating there. Does she see the irony there or no, do you think? 

SMITH:  Oh no, I don't think so at all. I think she is into total control and domination over our population. She has issued this edict statewide to all 36 counties regardless of the count, regardless of the infection rate, regardless of the testing. Not even Governor Newsom from California has done that. He has allowed each county an autonomy to make their own decisions. 

But our governor hasn't because she obviously does not trust the elected officials in each of our counties in Oregon. 

We've been in a lockdown for eight months now, Tucker. People understand what to do to be healthy. We have been browbeat over the head with wearing masks in public, which I do by the way, with social distancing, to stay home if you're sick, be clean. 

I think our people have the intelligence, the education and the independence to make their own decisions. We are adults, we do not need to be treated as second rate slaves in our own homes. 

CARLSON:  Good for you. Our viewers, if they don't know Oregon may be confused because the Oregon we see is Portland. Oregon is a lot like Maine.

It's a great state with reasonable people dominated by angry children in a city called Portland. But there are great people in Oregon. How has the public response been to your statement? 

SMITH:  Well, it has gone totally viral. The public response, I'm getting a lot of good comments. I'm getting people saying, "Yay." I also have the trolls and the minions who are trying to discredit me and take me down. 

But you know, I am not going to be deterred by this because I know I'm on the right side on this. People want their freedom. They want their independence to make their own decisions, and we can do that in Oregon. 

We are responsible people who can set our own destiny and our governor needs to allow us to do that. 

CARLSON:  Exactly. When they try and say you can't be with your family on Thanksgiving, you know that's a line we can't let them cross. Tootie, great to hear from you tonight. 

SMITH:  Well, and that's really true, Tucker. The isolation is killing us.

She is not addressing the isolation and the fallout, for instance, from mental health that comes in the form of child abuse, suicide rate is increasing and domestic violence and that really needs to be addressed. 

She has no solutions to that. Her main edict is to shut down and keep people separate. We as human beings, have that right to be together. 

CARLSON:  Exactly. And look around. How many people do you know who are fragile and neurotic and unhappy and unwell really, psychologically? And it is a result of this nonsense. Thank you for fighting back. Great to see you. 

SMITH:  Thank you, Tucker. Bye-bye. 

CARLSON:  So the President announced he is pulling thousands of troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq, and that made some people like Mitt Romney, very unhappy. In fact, if there is one thing Democrats and Republicans can agree on, is that we need another 20 more years in Afghanistan. But to what end?

What's the purpose exactly? Why is 20 years premature to pull out? We'll find out, next. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

CARLSON:  So the President has been saying for years that he wants to withdraw all American troops from Afghanistan and he means it sincerely. It has been tough to get it done. The other day, today, actually, The Pentagon announced we will get part of the way there, we're going to cut the number of troops in Afghanistan from 4,500 to 2,500, at the same time, reduce the number of troops in Iraq from 3,000 to 2,500. 

Most people support this strongly. However, many Republicans on Capitol Hill are upset that we are finally close to ending the war in Afghanistan after more than 19 years. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY):  A rapid withdrawal of U.S. Forces from Afghanistan now would hurt our allies and delight -- delight -- the people who wish us harm. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON:  A rapid withdrawal. Sure, more than 19 years. That's rapid, according to people in Washington who measure time in glacial terms. So, apparently we should stay in Afghanistan forever. 

Mitt Romney strongly agrees with that. He complained that troop reduction may not be, quote, "A wise decision for national security interests." He didn't explain exactly what that meant. No one knows what it means. But everyone in Washington agrees with it. 

Democrats and Republicans are united on this one point: permanent military presence in countries that hate us and give us no obvious benefit is nevertheless vital to our national security. Over on CNN, they had an on air panic attack at the prospect of American troops finally leaving Iraq. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST:  Who does this? Who drops something like this in the lap of an incoming President? 

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST:  No one other than Donald Trump. I think what he's trying to do is go through his bucket list quite honestly. 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON:  "Who does this?" Says that 32-year-old news anchor, "Who does this?" Gil Barndollar has thought a lot about this. He is a Senior Fellow at Defense Priorities, one of the defense nonprofits you can trust me and he joins us tonight. Gil, thanks so much for coming on. 

GIL BARNDOLLAR, SENIOR FELLOW, DEFENSE PRIORITIES:  Thanks for having me, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  So why the outrage? And how did 19 years get to be too speedy for people in Washington? 

BARNDOLLAR:  Yes, I think folks have learned nothing. I mean, the kind of people that are largely responsible for these mistakes and these disasters

-- call them what they are -- overseas haven't learned a thing. 

I mean, these are the two of these longest wars in American history. You've got guys literally, you know, who are toddlers and newborns on 9/11 who could -- who could in some cases be walking their father's patrol routes in Afghanistan. It would be kind of darkly funny, if it weren't for the fact that we've got Americans killing and dying over there trying to accomplish Mission Impossible. 

CARLSON:  Well, that's exactly right. It's interesting that, you know, whatever you think of the current President, President Trump, he is the first President in 40 years not to initiate a major conflict. No one seems happy with that. Everyone in Washington seems glum at that idea. Why? 

BARNDOLLAR:  Well, you've got people addicted to an idea of American strength that I think kind of comes close to that old definition of insanity of, you know, banging your head against the wall. Yes, we've accomplished -- we haven't accomplished victory by the aims we've set out in these countries. 

Certainly, Iraq was a disaster for the United States, for the region, and for the whole world. Afghanistan, you can look at it two ways: either we did what we needed to do and we tossed the Taliban out of power and taught them a lesson and we should have come home pretty quickly within a year or so, or we failed to build a country and we should have come home a long time ago and figured that out, you know close to two decades ago as well. 

CARLSON:  So, I think a lot of current leadership at the Pentagon for a bunch of reasons support these kinds of conflicts, but the guys who serve there, and took, you know, real physical risk in serving there, you must know a bunch of them, what's their view of this? 

BARNDOLLAR:  Well, you can look at the surveys. I think, you know, last when I checked was, I think, between 58 and 65 percent of U.S. veterans who were surveyed, I think this is Pew -- Pew last year found this, higher than the American civilian population thought that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were a mistake on their own merits on the way they were sold. 

So I think most veterans however much they've invested in it, I think a majority of U.S. veterans have gotten rid of sunk cost fallacy and realized, it is well past time to come home. 

CARLSON:  So the people who actually served think that that was a mistake, and we should pull back. I mean, what why does no one say that? Why are proponents of endless war, which is a very left-wing idea, liberal idea, certainly, why did they get the moral high ground on this and anyone who disagrees is for a weaker America? 

BARNDOLLAR:  Well, there are a couple of answers. I mean, you've seen it.

You saw on the Iraq War, it's a lot easier, especially when it's not your sons and daughters, you know, who are volunteering military or recruited military if we are being honest. If it is not your sons or daughters, it's easy to shame somebody else and to invoke patriotism and to invoke strength. 

There's not a lot of cost and not a lot of people have skin in the game.

That's a big piece of it and that leads to you know, we've just got broader apathy in this country towards foreign policy. 

CARLSON:  And that is so true. Gil, thanks a lot for coming on tonight.

Great to see you. 

BARNDOLLAR:  Great talking to you. 

CARLSON:  So a bunch of people who claim to be journalists ran into Joe Biden yesterday. That doesn't happen very often. Senator John Kennedy watched it. We're going to assess the tape and find out how it went. That's next. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

CARLSON:  So we are hearing a lot recently about President Joe Biden, so you may be wondering, okay, what will this President do when he gets to the White House? Well, to answer that question, of course, you would watch his press conference. That's the point of a press conference. Reporters ask the politician questions that you would like answered. But if you watched Joe Biden's press conference yesterday, you would have been pretty disappointed. 

On the other hand, if you want to know how truly inspiring Joe Biden is and how appalling his political opponents are, you are in luck. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES:  I understand now, I'm going to take some questions. Megan, fire away. 

QUESTION:  What do you see as the biggest threat to your transition right now given President Trump's unprecedented attempt to obstruct and delay a smooth transfer of power? 

QUESTION:  You just spoke of some of the dangers of the President's continued stonewalling of this transition. But it doesn't appear that the President is going to come around anytime soon and admit defeat. So what are you going to do? 

What is your message to Republicans who are backing up the President's refusal to concede? 

QUESTION:  I want to get your thoughts on the President's tweet over the weekend? Do you want him to concede? 

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

CARLSON:  President Biden, how bad is President Trump? It went on like this. Senator John Kennedy watched. He is of course representing the State of Louisiana. He is Republican. He joins us tonight. 

Senator, thanks a lot for coming on. You notice flecks of saliva on Joe Biden's suit? Was that slobber from the Press Corps, do you think? 

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA):  Tucker, you would -- I did watch the questioning of Mr. Biden and I've watched the whole campaign. And look, you'd have to be a special kind of stupid not to see the disparate treatment between Mr.

Biden and Mr. Trump. 

I think since he was selected by the manager or lead in the Democratic Party, I think the toughest question that Mr. Biden has been asked is, does he support children and prosperity? And probably the second toughest question is, does he like ponies? 

And this is very dangerous for our democracy. 

CARLSON:  Yes. 

KENNEDY:  You know, here's a newsflash. Politicians lie, not always, but sometimes. They hide the truth. Why? 

CARLSON:  I noticed. 

KENNEDY:  Because it helps them hold on to power, and the role of a journalist is to hold those politicians accountable and to ferret out and safeguard the truth. And in doing so, journalists can't pick sides.

Otherwise, they are not seeking out the truth. They've got to be equal opportunity a-holes, if you will. 

And, and too many of our journalists have started picking sides, and it will ultimately undermine their profession and democracy because without truth, there is no trust. Without trust, there is no democracy. 

CARLSON:  Amen. That is -- so you've been in politics for -- you're a United States senator -- have you ever held a press conference at which the overwhelming majority of the questions consisted of how horrible is your opponent? 

KENNEDY:  No, I've never seen it like this. And I came into politics, not at the Federal level, but at the state level 25 years ago. And in it used to be that journalist really were equal opportunity. I probably shouldn't use what I said before, I'll say jerks. They were tough. They were tough. 

It didn't matter what your party affiliation was. Their job was to ferret out the truth. But, you know, there's an old adage that says, keep the company of those who seek the truth. Run from those who already know it? 

I think many members of the press think they already know the truth. 

CARLSON:  There's something about watching reporters suck up to people in power that's really, really chilling, far worse than attacking people with power. That's fine. Sucking up is dangerous. I agree with you absolutely and completely. 

Senator Kennedy. Thanks a lot for coming on tonight. 

KENNEDY:  Thank you, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  So the election is over, but the crackdown is just beginning.

Now, the left is going after attorneys who represent anyone who is affiliated with the Trump Campaign. So if they don't like your politics, you're not entitled to legal counsel. You want to live in that country?

We've got details after the break. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 

CARLSON:  Well, last week, a group called The Lincoln Project which is run mostly by consultants who ran campaigns against Donald Trump in the 2016 primaries launched a half a million dollar advertising blitz. The point of it wasn't to promote a candidate. The goal was simple: terrorizing the commercial clients of any law firm that dares to represent the President's campaign. 

The Lincoln Project posted the office numbers and e-mail addresses of lawyers at the firm, Jones Day, it is a very big firm based in Washington and it was representing the Republican Party of Pennsylvania. Jones Day promptly promised not to get involved in any more litigation in this election because they were intimidated. You would be, too. 

Another law firm, Porter Wright, has withdrawn from representing the Trump Campaign because of the pressure brought to bear on them. 

Do you want to live in a country where if you have the wrong political beliefs, you don't get competent legal representation? That's the question before us. 

Harmeet Dhillon is probably the most prominent First Amendment attorney in the United States and we are always happy to have her on the show. Harmeet, thanks for coming on. 

So what does this mean for the rest of us? I've never seen anything like this before, and I'm worried about what it portends for the future. 

HARMEET DHILLON, NATIONAL CO-CHAIR, LAWYERS FOR TRUMP:  Well, this form of economic terrorism -- and that's what it is -- is really very scary to the ordinary person when you unpack this and think about it. 

Some of these law firms like George Conway is affiliated with this Lincoln Project and he has been one of the people retweeting these condemnations of Jones Day and other firms. I thought I would look on his firm website and see who his firm Wachtell, Lipton represents, and they mention different flavors of criminal no fewer than 10 times on their website: people who do False Claims Act, tax evasion, price fixing, you know, securities fraud, and other types of white collar crime. 

So they are happy to represent actual alleged criminals, but you cannot have the counsel of your choice, and this is really scary, because let's face it, our system of justice does not work unless there are good lawyers on both sides. Anybody who has clerked for a judge and seen pro se litigants can tell you that. 

And so when you have the most powerful person in the country, his lawyers are bullied out of dropping him and they are making legitimate claims concerning the constitutionality of accepting ballots after the day of the election, the legitimacy of treating some voters in some counties different than others. These are all legitimate arguments and they are good arguments. 

But every lawyer associated with the Trump campaign, even in a spokesperson capacity, like I had been, gets death threats, gets incredible abuse from partners at major law firms. I mean, I've had abuse on my Facebook page from managing partners at law firms in San Francisco accusing me of heinous crimes. They represent actual criminals. 

So what this means is if the President's lawyers can be bullied into dropping him and throwing him under the bus, which is what happened with a couple of these law firms, it can happen to you. It can happen to you or your family. If you're accused of a crime, if you are representing an unpopular cause, if somebody makes a false accusation against you, somebody attacks your company, somebody attacks your job, and somebody can attack your livelihood. 

If your cause is unpopular, there is a mob waiting to intimidate lawyers who want to take your case up, and that means, we don't have two sides. 

The American Bar Association has guidelines on this and the guidelines say that lawyers are entitled to represent any kind of client and it does not mean that they are taking on the cause that their client represents. And it is important for the course of justice for there to be two sides. 

And so when I see lawyers like George Conway and like partners that other major law firms and by the way, it is lawyers leading this charge. Yes, there are these losing sleazy consultants who are also raising the money for it, but it is lawyers who are leading this charge and they should be ashamed and they are leaving nasty voicemails. 

Some of these lawyers in this case have 24-hour security now. They have death threats. Their offices have been shut down. It is disgusting. 

CARLSON:  Well, it is. The lawyers who represented OJ Simpson in a double murder trial were called the Dream Team. It's just a really -- thanks for putting that in perspective, Harmeet Dhillon, defending the First Amendment. Great to see you. 

Thanks for watching. Thanks for trusting us. We will see you tomorrow at

8:00 p.m. Eastern. 

Here is Sean. 

Content and Programming Copyright 2020 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2020 ASC Services II Media, LLC.  All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.