Tom Homan rips Democratic efforts to abolish ICE

This is a rush transcript from "Life, Liberty & Levin," September 15, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARK LEVIN, HOST: Hello, America. This is "Life, Liberty & Levin." We have a great guest, Tom Homan. How are you, sir?

TOM HOMAN, FORMER IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT DIRECTOR: Very good. Thanks for having me.

LEVIN: I've seen you around on TV a little bit.

HOMAN: Yes, I'm out there fighting a good fight.

LEVIN: You are fighting the good fight and you're the former Acting Director of ICE

HOMAN: Yes, sir.

LEVIN: You were also the Executive Associate Director of the Border Patrol for a period of time, right?

HOMAN: I was the Executive Associate Director at ICE

LEVIN: At ICE

HOMAN: I started my immigration law enforcement career in the Border Patrol back in 1984.

LEVIN: 1984. You were also a police officer?

HOMAN: Yes, sir.

LEVIN: So you spent your whole life trying to protect people in this country in various ways. You were the acting Director of ICE from 2017 to 2018. What is ICE?

HOMAN: ICE is an agency that was born in 2003 after 9/11, they created DHS. They took two legacy agencies -- Immigration and Naturalization Service and U.S. Customs Service and they formed ICE -- Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

It has about 20,000 employees. There's three major branches within ICE You have HSI -- Homeland Security Investigations that do criminal investigations enforcing to work 400 criminal statutes. Then you've got Enforcement and Removal Operations. They enforce immigration laws within the United States. Then we have the Office of Principal Legal Adviser, our attorneys, our prosecutors that prosecute immigration cases in Immigration Court.

LEVIN: So when AOC, or I like to call her AOC and Tlaib and Wasserman-Schultz and the others, when they talk about abolishing ICE, they're talking about abolishing a whole lot. The Customs Service -- the Customs Servic.

HOMAN: Right.

LEVIN: Immigration Enforcement. So once people get past the Border Patrol and into the interior of the country, into our neighborhoods in our communities, ICE steps in and also the enforcement side, the prosecutors and so forth who get involved in prosecuting these cases.

So when we have Democratic candidates running for President or Members of Congress saying, "We should abolish ICE," so they want to abolish the old Custom Service. They want to abolish Interior Enforcement and they want to abolish prosecutorial enforcement -- all of it.

HOMAN: When you think about what they want to abolish, they want to abolish -- let's look at what ICE did in my last year as a Director. They want to abolish an agency that rescued hundreds of women from sex trafficking. They want to abolish the agency that saved thousands of children from child predators and sex traffickers. They want to abolish an agency that seized enough opioids in this country in one year to kill every man, woman, and child in this country twice -- not once, twice.

They want to abolish an agency that's the number one participant with the F.B.I. and Joint Terrorism Task Force who do a lot of terrorism investigations. They want to abolish the agency that does gun trafficking investigations, narcotics investigations, doing investigation where our technology is smuggled overseas, such as missile technology that can be used in our war fighters.

They want to abolish an agency that has a Civil Rights division, we have removed hundreds of Nazis from the United States over the years and sending them back to face trial. We remove Civil Rights violators that are wanted by their countries all over the world -- we do this every year.

They want to abolish an agency that arrested 127,000 criminal aliens last year. Not just illegal aliens, these are illegal aliens that committed a bad act for getting here, a criminal violation.

They want to abolish an agency that 90 percent of every alien they arrest either has a criminal conviction or pending criminal charges that means, it's filed in a county jail.

They want to abolish an agency that helps keep this country safe, and that enforces laws they enact. So they'd rather abolish entire Federal law enforcement agency and abolish everything I just talked about than to do their job.

ICE isn't making this up. ICE enforcing the laws they enacted. If they don't like it, then stand up and legislate. Do your job. But don't vilify the men and women that leave the safety of their home every day to defend this nation.

LEVIN: Those men and women and I want to ask you about them, because I've watched some of this hearing that you were at the other day, and I learned absolutely nothing other than they wanted to attack you. They wanted to create a caricature of you. They accuse you of being a racist, they accuse you of being inhumane.

And it's a lot of the same people who say the same thing about the President and his supporters. They don't give you an opportunity to respond. So they are there basically the smear you. So I want you to respond to that. And I also want to know, who are these people in ICE? Are the vast majority of them of one ethnic group or another ethnic group? Because I know the stats is never discussed either.

HOMAN: Well, as far as smearing, take your best shot. You're not going to bully me, you're not going to shut me up. I'm proud of my 34-year career. I think I've saved many, many lives in my career with my numerous investigations and operations.

They want to smear the Border Patrol. What they don't talk about is Border Patrol saved over 4,000 people last year. Four thousand people that would have died if Border Partrol didn't rescue them. So they can take your best shot at me. They're not going to bully me. I'm proud of my career. I serve my nation proudly.

And again, I'll say if they don't like what I do, if I'm a racist for enforcing the laws they enact, what does that make them?

LEVIN: For passing them?

HOMAN: Yes, they enacted the laws, I enforce them. So the personal attacks, I've had it. But the hearings, you're right. You're not going to learn a lot of the hearings, because the hearings aren't about getting to the truth.

In the past two years -- since the Democrats took over the House, it is about getting to the truth, it is not about actually looking at something, getting to the facts and legislate a fix. This is about vilifying this administration and this President. Probably the finest President in my lifetime.

I can talk about that later, but it's not about getting to the truth, Mark, it's about making speeches, attacking myself and the President, the men and women of ICE and the Border Patrol, and not letting you respond.

They attack you for five minutes, then I want to respond, they won't let me respond because they got their soundbite. That's what it's all about.

It's not about transparency. It's not about truth. It's about political theater. Throwing read meat to their base and attacking this President.

LEVIN: You worked at the Border Patrol, what percentage of the Border Patrol is, say Hispanic?

HOMAN: The last I looked, it is about 56 percent.

LEVIN: Fifty six percent.

HOMAN: More than half.

LEVIN: ICE, which --

HOMAN: And not only that, Mark 56 percent Latino and the vast majority are ex-service members. These are people that served their nation in the military and when they got out, they chose to continue to serve their nation and put that Kevlar vest on every day and that gun and defend this nation from the border.

LEVIN: Isn't it strange then to suggest that the people who are doing these jobs, the people who are the supervisors and the directors are racist?

HOMAN: That's what they've got. They have no argument for their position on these issues. So they throw the race card out.

LEVIN: Now, ICE, what percentage of ICE is Hispanic would you guess?

HOMAN: I think there's -- last I know is, I think it's close to 40 percent.

LEVIN: Give or take.

HOMAN: Again, and a lot of ex-military, a lot of people who have chosen to serve the country for their life. I mean, these are American heroes. These are people who don't make a lot of money, and they put themselves in harm's way every day for this nation.

And every day they wake up and hear from Democratic leadership that they are Nazis or Hitler's who run concentration camps. They are racist. They keep going to work every day and serving this nation.

I love everyone. And like I said in my testimony, I will defend the men and women of the Border Patrol and the men and women of ICE the day I die. They deserve that from us. These are true American heroes.

LEVIN: This committee you testified before, was there a single Democrat who came to the defense of ICE?

HOMAN: Oh, no, absolutely none.

LEVIN: Not one?

HOMAN: No.

LEVIN: Was there a single Democrat came to the defense of the job that ICE is doing under enormously difficult circumstances?

HOMAN: No.

LEVIN: Was there a single Democrat who objected to sanctuary cities affirmatively?

HOMAN: Absolutely not.

LEVIN: Was there a single Democrat who said we should enforce our immigration laws?

HOMAN: Quite the opposite.

LEVIN: Was there a single Democratic who came up with a proposal for reforming our immigration laws?

HOMAN: Bingo, which I brought up, they said insulted them. In my opening statement, I stuck with, these hearings aren't about getting to the truth. Every time a policy is enacted or some sort of operation happens where you think those who knowingly violate our laws may be negatively affected. You're quick to have a hearing.

Within two days, you come back to Capitol Hill, they had a hearing on this and what my opening statement said, "So where are the hearings on sanctuary cities? Where are the hearings on the Flores Settlement Agreement? The asylum rules -- how they're being cheated? The attack on men and women of ICE and the Border Patrol shooting at our facilities -- burning down a facility? Where are those hearings?

So I asked that to them during my open statement. So this isn't about transparency. This isn't about good government. This is about taking your time, giving a terrible title to hearing to raise --

LEVIN: What did they call the hearing?

HOMAN: We've got hearings about child separation and the terrible detention --

LEVIN: Stop right there. I had a gentleman here not too long ago who told me -- and he is an expert on the sex slave crimes in this country, which are horrific, and many of them happen at the border. Thirty percent -- tell me if this figures right -- 30 percent of those who come into this country have adults claiming that those kids who are with them or their kids are lying, that they're not their kids.

HOMAN: That 30 percent came out of that. They did it. They did a pilot program on DNA testing in one sector on the border, and during that pilot, up to 30 percent of people claiming to be parents, DNA proved they were not parents.

LEVIN: And knowing that, what is the suggestion these people make on the left? That they should stay with these adults? Or they should be separated from these adults? So that means three out of every 10 cases, you have people who are lying about those children who they belong to. And those could be the sex predators. Those can be the coyotes. Those can be people who have kidnapped these kids in order to get in or sell these kids or do whatever they're going to do. Push them into the "sex slave industry" quote, unquote.

I have yet to hear anybody on that committee this week, any Democratic presidential candidate, any so-called journalist explain how we're supposed to know in advance who is who. Don't you kind of need to separate them in order to figure out who is who?

HOMAN: Absolutely, absolutely. We've been separating non-parental relationship families for decades. This wasn't started under President Trump. Now zero tolerance is more famous for separating because the parent was prosecuted. And like I said many times if a U.S. citizen is prosecuted if you and I, if I'm in a car tonight with my child and I get stopped for a DUI, I'm going to get separated.

When I was a police officer in New York and I arrested a father for domestic violence. The child begged me not to take the father at home, but I did it. So it's unfortunate, it is sad, but we have to do our job.

So we're talking about -- they want to mix apples and oranges. They claim to care about these vulnerable people. Well if they cared about them, if they cared about 31 percent of women making this journey get raped. Children are dying. Criminal cartels are making millions and millions of dollars a day, the same cartels that have murdered Border Patrol agents.

So if they really care about saving lives, then fix the loopholes and secure this border. Securing the border will save lives. Thirty one percent of women won't be raped. Children won't die. And criminal cartels won't keep getting rich.

LEVIN: This all makes so much sense. And when we come back, I want to ask you, why do we actually have to defend what is just, good and right against what is radical, insane and wrong?

Ladies and gentlemen, don't forget, you can watch Levin TV, Levin TV most weeknights. Just give us a call at 844-LEVIN-TV and join us, 844 LEVIN-TV or go to blazetv.com/mark, blazetv.com/mark to sign up and don't forget, "Unfreedom of the Press." They're a big problem. Sixteen weeks in "The New York Times" bestseller list and they hate it and hate me and I love it. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEVIN: Tom Homan, you make it excellent point. Our prison system. Federal, state, local jails, county jails are filled with adults who are separated from their children. I never hear about that.

Oh my goodness, you're separating parents from the children and children from their parents. Yes, we actually have to do that. We do it all the time. And Obama did it, too. And I suspect every administration has had to do it if you want to care about children and figure out who's who and what's what.

But I've asked the question, this hostility towards ICE and the Border Patrol is irrational, and yet it's a campaign issue for the left. It's a campaign issue for people running on the Democratic side for President of the United States. Why do you think that is?

HOMAN: I think a lot of what these guys do is they resist this President. To attack ICE and the Border Patrol the way they do, they don't want this President to succeed on the border. That's his number one campaign promise. They want to be able to say in 2020, "You failed your number one campaign promise."

But you know what? This President is too good he won't fail. The numbers are already down 56 percent on the border because of him and his --

LEVIN: What numbers? Fifty six percent -- what is down?

HOMAN: From the high -- from the high back in May.

LEVIN: People crossing?

HOMAN: Crossing the border, illegals are down 56 percent because the actions this President has taken on building a wall, to calling a national emergency, finally getting Mexico to do something -- and Guatemala. His action alone have caused a decrease in crossings.

It's a sad day in America when the country of Mexico has done more to secure our border than Congress who is responsible to secure the border.

LEVIN: But this is a very profound point. We elect these people into Congress, first and foremost to protect us. We don't need them redistributing wealth and taxing us -- to protect us. Am I right that many of the terrorists on 9/11 had overstayed their visas?

HOMAN: Yes.

LEVIN: Immigration is a very important national security issue, isn't it?

HOMAN: Especially right now, because with the crisis on the border, Border Patrol says, almost half of their agents are no longer on the line. So if you're somewhere in this world who wants to harm to do to this country, it's hard to get a plane ticket because you run through a bunch of databases. It's hard to get a visa now because we have the Visa Security Program. You run through a lot of intelligence databases to find out if there's any derogatory information out there.

So if you want to come to this country to do us harm? You're going to come the way 12 to 20 men others did -- illegally through the southwest border, especially now, when half of the Border Patrol agents are not working the line because they are changing diapers, making baby formula or making hospital runs.

LEVIN: Do you think this is part of the reason why the media and the left, really to me, one and the same -- downplay MS-13? They don't do a lot of stories on the mayhem MS-13 -- and they are vile and vicious -- death methods and so forth, or the other criminals that come across the border.

In fact, when you raise it, they say, "Are you suggesting every one that comes across the border is a criminal?" No, did I say that? But the fact is, if somebody comes across the border illegally and there are criminals, those are more criminals here than should be here. Do you think that's why they kind of downplay it? They don't do a lot of stories on them.

HOMAN: No, they don't. And the truth is, about 20 percent of those coming across illegally do have prior criminal history.

LEVIN: Twenty percent.

HOMAN: Yes, when I was at ICE, we looked at what we received from the Border Patrol to detain, about 20 percent have a criminal history. But let me add this, when you enter a country illegally, you do violate the law. It's a violation of Title 8 United States 1325: Illegal entry to the United States. It is a crime to enter the United States illegally and it's not okay.

So when I first became ICE Director, I testified and I said -- they said, "Well, you're stalking fear in the immigrant community." I said, "If you're in this country illegally, if you chose to violate the laws of this country and enter this country illegally, you're not supposed to be comfortable. It is not okay. So you should be worried that someone is looking for you."

That's the way it's supposed to be. I thought that's why Congress enact the laws, so there's consequences to deter this, to violating these laws. But a lot of times, the Democrats inside of the House, they want a different set of rules for those who are here illegally.

So it's okay for them to violate the laws? Don't detain them. It's okay then to smuggle children, don't arrest them. And you've got governors and mayors now, especially Gavin Newsom of California, who got someone convicted of a crime and they're parking them because they are a resident and when they get a serious criminal conviction, they can be deported. So he pardons that crime, so they can't be deported. How many U.S. citizen has he done that for? It's ridiculous.

LEVIN: What do you think about Democratic candidates for President who are campaigning on, among other things, free healthcare for illegal immigrants?

HOMAN: When I saw -- I saw the debates and it's disgusting. Because these are people that want to run for President of the United States, and their number one responsibility should be to secure our country and protect Americans.

But when they raise their hands, they want to give free medical care, and several of them want to get away -- they want to do away with all detention. We shouldn't be detaining these people. And they want to reward those who entered illegally through the -- you know, the DACA people, through that illegal program that was created by the --

LEVIN: Obama's fiat.

HOMAN: Right. So when you talk about polishing ICE, giving them free medical care, giving them pathway to citizenship even though they violate our laws.

LEVIN: Driver's licenses, some local towns allowing them to vote.

HOMAN: And we are not going to detain you. When you start throwing all of this out, you're enticing more people to come to this country illegally. So here we have a President who is taking actions that decreased it 56 percent just recently, and they're throwing gas on the fire.

So rather than helping this President secure the border, which is their job. They want to keep enticing more people to come and in my opinion is, it is about votes. That's why they don't want these citizenship question on the Census. This is about more seats in House. This is about power. This about the Electoral College. This is about their power.

And like what I explained to them, this isn't just about enforcing the law. This is about saving lives. If you really care about these people like you say you do, stop enticing them because they put themselves in hands of criminal organizations, where they're abused, they die, they are raped.

So you know, let's do the right thing for the American people first and that was my last testimony. That was what upset them because I brought that to the forefront.

LEVIN: This is right on. For the left, it's about power, politics, taking red border states and making them purple, then eventually blue. And you know what? They're succeeding. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEVIN: Tom Homan, sanctuary cities. I never heard of them 10 years ago. It's an odd name -- sanctuary cities -- are these really lawless cities, rogue cities, lawless states, rogue states that are defying Federal immigration law against the citizenry of the United States?

HOMAN: Absolutely. I think it's criminal. I absolutely think it is anti-American. And when they say sanctuary, it is a sanctuary for criminals. It's not a sanctuary for American citizens. It's not a sanctuary for the law abiding people. It's a sanctuary for the criminals. It is not even a sanctuary for illegal aliens who are in that city that has committed a crime. And let me explain why.

They say sanctuary cities are important because they want victims and witnesses of crime to be not be afraid to approach law enforcement. But the truth is, all we want is access to the jail. So unless the police officers are arresting a victim or witness, we don't know they exist. We got the bad guy in the jail. And if we did notice a victim of a crime, they can actually get a visa. So that's false.

The other narrative --

LEVIN: So let me just stop you there. These are people already adjudicated as criminals, and they're in these counties, state and local jails. And before they get out, ICE wants to be notified, so they can get rid of them.

HOMAN: These are people who have been arrested on local charges or state charges. They chose to lock them up, put them in a jail cells for either they are a danger to the public or a flight risk. So you've already put them in a jail cell. All we're asking for, let us know before you release them because we have probable cause based on fingerprint information that he is in the country illegally.

And they say, well, we want the victim and witnesses to come forward. I just explained that and what they are going to say is, you know, we're protecting the immigrant community. Wrong. When you release a criminal inmate from a county jail, they're going to go back into the very community in which they live and reoffend in that community.

And we can see that just recently in Montgomery County, Maryland. Eight victims of rape, seven in the immigrant community. Tell me how you protected that immigrant community?

So when you release them back in the immigrant community, you put the immigrant community at greater risk of crime. And frankly, you put them at greater risk of ICE arrest, because we could get the bad guy into jail, we get the bad guy. But when you release them in the community, ICE has to go to the community and find them. And they're probably going to find others that weren't even on our radar.

So tell me, one of these politician needs to explain to me how exactly you're protecting the immigrant community? And finally, I'll say this, I dare any politician to go to the immigrant community and ask them this one question. Would you rather have ICE in your community or a county jail? What do you think they're going to say? They're going to say, the county jail.

In sanctuary cities, they put our officers at great risk. Rather than arresting a bad guy in the county jail where he is behind the bars. We know he doesn't have weapons, you're surrounded by law enforcement. Now, we've got to go knock on the door. I'm telling you, it's a matter of time for one of the men and women of ICE do not go home, because they were put in a position they shouldn't have to be put in.

LEVIN: I wonder how many of these governors -- Newsom and the others live in these communities that you're talking about, where these criminals are released back into these communities and re-offend? None of them.

HOMAN: No.

LEVIN: So for them, it's all politics, it's all theater, it's all narratives, it's all positioning, and so forth. Here's another problem I have a sanctuary cities. The left promotes them.

That's odd -- sanctuary cities. Sanctuary cities, if you believe in that, you're basically nullifying Federal law, right? Well, if you're nullifying Federal law, who used to do that? The Confederacy used to nullify Federal law. They said, "Look, we're a state. we can do what we want to." And they used to camouflage the States rights, so they said, "We can nullify Federal law, too."

This has gone full circle, and so what the left has said is, "We can nullify Federal law." And now, the left likes lots of Federal laws. They like centralized government and so forth. They don't really have their logic figured out. But this nullification is a huge issue from a constitutional perspective, as far as I'm concerned.

And also, the President tried early on and the Department of Justice tried early on, to enforce Federal law in these sanctuary areas by withholding grant monies. And the Courts stepped in and said you couldn't do it, which was shocking.

So now you're able to subsidize sanctuary cities. The Federal government should be able to withhold funds from communities that are run by these leftists who are harming their communities, who are violating Federal law. They should be able to withhold Federal funds like they would from a contract or anybody else.

HOMAN: Well, that decision is under appeal. The D.O.J. is appealing that to the highest levels, and I'm glad they are and I think they're going to win it in the long run. It's just not nullifying. I think they're violating law. Let me explain why.

When I was a Special Agent, I arrested U.S. citizens for harboring and concealing an illegal alien in their home. I've arrested business owners for harboring and concealing an illegal alien in their place of business. How is it different when we get fingerprints back -- because when you get arrested, you get -- your fingerprints get run to NCIC, they bounce off against our database, so we get information -- okay, this persons in that jail, we've deported him before. So we send a detainer.

If we don't get access to the jail when we have probable cause somebody who is here in violation of Federal laws there, how is that not harboring and concealing? So I think D.O.J. needs look at that.

When I first mentioned this, people said, "Oh, HOMAN: wants to arrest politicians for sanctuary cities." That's not what I said. I said, I want D.O.J. to look at it -- is it a criminal violation to harbor and conceal? Why is it okay for a Sheriff to do it? Or a Mayor to do it? Or a Governor to do it? But not okay for you and I to do it? That's what I want D.O.J. to look at.

LEVIN: I think that's a great point. And City Councils and Mayors and County Commissioners and Governors who do this sort of thing should be punished under existing law just like any other citizen should. I agree with you. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEVIN: Tom Homan, by the way, I have a question for you. Have you ever appeared on CNN?

HOMAN: Once.

LEVIN: And what happened?

HOMAN: I was interviewed by Wolf Blitzer. We went at it about 20 minutes. I think I won that argument. I was never invited again.

LEVIN: Whoa. An argument?

HOMAN: Well, it was absolutely an argument.

LEVIN: I thought he is a journalist?

HOMAN: He wanted me to say that the zero tolerance was inhumane. Everybody wants to talk about the 2,500 that were separated because the parents were prosecuted. A child can't go with the parents to lock up. That doesn't happen anywhere else in this country. It doesn't happen to U.S. citizens.

But I tried to say what's inhumane is -- it's not what the government did. The government takes pretty good care of these children in licensed facilities. What he didn't want to talk about was the 14,000 children that were in the custody of the government that were smuggled by criminal organizations because their parents chose to hire a criminal organization to put them in a truck or a tractor or at the back of a tractor trailer. That's inhumane. But no one wants to talk about that.

So, you know, it was a back and forth, but --

LEVIN: But I am a little perplexed about these so-called journalists that why I wrote this book. He is arguing with you.

HOMAN: Yes.

LEVIN: Shouldn't he be trying -- and he is just, I think -- just to have an illustration of him, shouldn't a journalist be trying to glean information from you about what you're doing and why you're doing it and so forth and so on? What is this, arguing stuff? In other words, that's advocacy.

HOMAN: I think they come in with a preset opinion.

LEVIN: Were you invited back?

HOMAN: No, of course not.

LEVIN: Have you ever been on CNN since?

HOMAN: No.

LEVIN: How about MSNBC?

HOMAN: Never.

LEVIN: Never been invited?

HOMAN: Never been invited.

LEVIN: How about "Meet the Press"?

HOMAN: No.

LEVIN: How about this week?

HOMAN: No.

LEVIN: How about "Face the Nation"?

HOMAN: No. I was ICE Director and very few people wanted to talk to me because I was not afraid to speak the truth. I wasn't going to play any political game. I've done this for 34 years. I've lived -- I've worked the entire life cycle of illegal immigration from the front line as a Border Patrol agent, as an investigator. I was the first ICE Director that came up through the ranks. I know this game, and you're not going to beat me at it.

LEVIN: And they don't want to know from you.

HOMAN: They don't want here from -- they don't hear the truth. They don't want hear facts. Because facts is -- facts are not on their side.

LEVIN: Now, "The New York Times"?

HOMAN: I've actually interviewed "The New York Times."

LEVIN: How'd it go?

HOMAN: I told them what I thought. I told them based on my experience, I gave them the information they get.

LEVIN: "Washington Post"?

HOMAN: Yes.

LEVIN: It's good. That's a start.

HOMAN: Again, but you don't see it show up in print.

LEVIN: Really?

HOMAN: Sometimes you see a -- you know, a little snippet. But the information I share, you never see that. You never see that in the end.

LEVIN: But when you watch this, given the position you're in. Given -- you're sort of a public figure, and you see how you're basically censored from some news rooms, or what you say is not really accurately or fully reported. And then you watch your protagonists in AOC, or Tlaib get enormous amount of time attacking ICE, attacking you, attacking immigration, attacking the country, and so forth.

So you served 34 years and all these other folks who serve to -- and there are hundreds of thousands when you consider over a 34-year period, people come and people go. You think the American people are getting an honest, objective perspective of what's taking place?

HOMAN: From the media? Absolutely not.

LEVIN: Where else are they going to get it from?

HOMAN: Well, that's why I'm out there doing what I'm doing. That's why you do what you do. So we can educate the American people. But let me -- let me, I've got to switch it to AOC for a minute. Ocasio-Cortez. She's the first one to call for the abolishment of ICE, right?

And she -- Ocasio wants to attack me. She may have been a good bartender in her day, but she's a terrible, terrible Congresswoman.

LEVIN: How do you that she was a good bartender?

HOMAN: Maybe she should make a --

LEVIN: I don't know. I don't drink, so what do I know.

HOMAN: Every time she opens her mouth on immigration, she is wrong. And I tried to set the record straight with her several times. She wants to abolish ICE rather than doing her job. You want to be congresswoman, then legislate. Stop trying to destroy a Federal law enforcement that has done more to protect New York than she has.

During my one year as ICE Director, we took over 5,000 criminals off the streets in New York that walked out of their sanctuary city jail.

LEVIN: What do they want to do about those criminals? Let them roam the countryside, I presume.

HOMAN: Absolutely. She wants to talk about people dying in ICE custody. Children dying in ICE custody. A child has never died in ICE custody, ever.

LEVIN: Really?

HOMAN: And if you look at the deaths in custody, the percentage of deaths in custody in ICE, it's the best in the nation. We had the highest detention standards in the industry, to the point when I was ICE Director, where I had a lot of Sheriffs saying, "I will no longer contract with you because your detention standards are so high." If I can't provide that sort of standards to U.S. citizens, why am I doing it for an illegal alien?

LEVIN: Here's something that confuses me. These people are coming in this country illegally. The adults for sure, voluntarily. We're not sending people down there and push them over the border, are we?

HOMAN: No.

LEVIN: If words gets back to Guatemala, or any place else south of the border or for that matter, other parts of the world that ICE and the Border Patrol are these horrific entities that force people to drink from toilets, that won't give them food and abuse them, and it is racist and so forth, why would they leave their own cultures and societies and countries and come into our country, if the immediate first treatment is so horrific? They wouldn't.

HOMAN: Even they know better. Even they know they are not drinking out of toilets, which is a ridiculous claim to begin with. And as a Congresswoman, if she was actually told that, it was her responsibility to turn around and demand to speak to somebody about that.

But what she didn't share with you is that our facilities have an apparatus that has a commode down the bottom. They have a sink for two different water lines you can drink out of. So you've got no one that's drinking out of the toilet. That was just ridiculous on her account.

But again, I have not seen her talk about immigration once and be accurate. She is wrong one hundred percent of the time.

LEVIN: How many times do you know has Nancy Pelosi been on the border?

HOMAN: None that I know of, and I'll tell you something else. She will meet with immigration advocates all the time, but she refuses to meet with Angel Moms and Angel Dads in her district.

LEVIN: How many times --

HOMAN: These are people who are living a nightmare. They lost their child at the hands of someone that wasn't supposed to be here and Nancy Pelosi won't meet with them. But she'll meet with the immigration advocates? It's ridiculous.

LEVIN: How many times has Chuck Schumer been on the border?

HOMAN: I don't know of any.

LEVIN: Now, you were at one point, you know, you were the Acting Director of ICE I know that's not border per se. How many times have they met with you one-on-one to find out what's taking place?

HOMAN: Zero. Zero.

LEVIN: Zero.

HOMAN: Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer have never talked to me about immigration. Again, they don't want to hear the facts. They have a false narrative that they are pushing, mostly against this President and anybody who works in this administration. They don't want to hear the truth.

LEVIN: So really, let's be honest, they don't know anything. They know what the advocates say. They know what these various groups say. They know what so-called reporters say. They know all of that.

But when it comes to really talking to the experts in the Federal government, civil servants who are on the border who are dealing with the interior and all the other issues, they don't want to know anything from them. We'll be right back.

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LEVIN: When you testified the other day, Tom Homan, Debbie Wasserman- Schultz said everything you said was a lie. I'd like to know how often she has been on the border, how often she has sat down with you without the Klieg lights on and talk to you in detail about your knowledge of what's been taking place. You worked for Democratic Presidents, you worked for Republican Presidents. And your response to her.

HOMAN: I've never met with her. She's never asked, you know, what ICE does what ICE doesn't do? She never asked me about the conditions of the border, none of that. And I was under oath, so if I lied under oath, prosecute me, that's your duty. But you know, when I asked her, "What did I say was inaccurate? Give me one thing." She couldn't answer me.

LEVIN: Plus they were gaveling you down.

HOMAN: She shot me down. And that's why I told her I know, I forgot more than she will ever know. But again, she wants to drop a bomb and walk away because she is afraid to have a discussion, because her facts don't support her position.

And I said, "You want to go toe-to-toe. Let's go." So I make the challenge again. And she goes, "I'll go toe-to-toe any day."

LEVIN: I'll tell you what, I'll make can easy for both you. You'll be there. We'll invite Debbie Wasserman Schultz to sit here. I'll be an honest and objective moderator. And let's go toe-to-toe, but she won't. I'll tell you why.

For the last several years since Donald Trump has been President, all we've gotten on this immigration issue is propaganda from the media and the left. Propaganda horror stories. No matter how much you and others, not Mark Morgan, the President of the United States, are trying to press the facts and get it out to the American people, you are met with a narrative. You are were met with an ideological effort to shut you down.

And the American people need to understand this is one of the important reasons that have you on this program. If the Democratic Party, and the so-called journalists, the left have their way, there'll be no border. There'll be no new wall, ICE will be abolished or transitioned into something that is useless.

The Border Patrol will be up to its highs in baby formula and diapers, and this society, and this country will be gravely endangered. This is a hugely important issue. And the media are part of the problem. The media are pushing this propaganda. This is why what you're doing is so important with the President of the United States who is really up against it.

This is why Congress won't give him the funding flat out to do a wall when Congress supported it 10 to 12 years ago, the same Congress, the same Democrats supported it 10 or 12 years ago; they're denying it here.

They denied there were caravans coming up to the border when the President of the United States said there was. They denied it was he human crisis, remember, it's a manufactured crisis. They never have to eat those words apparently, when the President said it's not a manufactured crisis.

The President said, "I'm going to move funds out of these other budgets, I have the statutory legal authority do it as other Presidents have." Then they call him an unconstitutional dictator who is out to get minorities and who is a racist.

I just hope the American people, with your help and the help of others and the help of the President understand exactly what's going on in this country.

Ladies and gentlemen, don't forget, most weeknights you can watch Levin TV, Levin TV. Just go to blazetv.com/mark, blazetv.com/mark to sign up or give us a call it 844-LEVIN-TV, 844-LEVIN-TV. If you remember the media, you really ought to read this book. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEVIN: President Trump is trying to enforce existing immigration law and secure the border. He's not anti-immigrant. He is pro-legal immigration. He supports ICE, backs them up. He supports the Border Patrol, backs them up. He is getting no help from Congress, even the Republicans are really not doing a hell of a lot.

And yet he is called a racist. He is called anti-immigrant, anti-Latino by the left, by the media and so forth. You've been doing this a long time. I'd like your opinion of what the President so far.

HOMAN: First of all, our President is not a racist. I've had many conversations with him. I've spent 34 years studying people, trying to figure people out. He is not a racist.

LEVIN: I agree with you.

HOMAN: He is someone that loves this country. He is somebody who wants you to stand up when the National Anthem is being played. He is somebody who wants -- he wants the America you and I grew up in, flags flying in our front porches on holidays. This is a President who loves his country.

But look, I've worked for six Presidents starting with Ronald Reagan, who was a great President -- and I respected them all, because I respect the Office of the Presidency.

But I've got to tell you, no President has done more in my lifetime than this President on trying to secure this border and protecting America. He supports law enforcement. I know he wrote a series of executive actions when he became President.

He could have done it in one simple sentence, "You will now enforce the laws on the books." Which we weren't allowed to do in the past eight years.

I came back from retirement to work for this President because I heard his speech in Arizona on immigration. I listened to it for 45 minutes and he was right on every point he made. He gets it. He understands it. You know why? Because this President takes the time to talk to the experts on the border, people like myself, who has done this for decades. He listened to us. He's built -- you know, and he is delivering on those promises.

Again, 56 percent drop in most recent illegal border crossings because of this President, and only this President. He has got one -- Democrat leadership has not offered up one stick of help other than throw out more enticements to try and undermine what he is doing, and he is still succeeding. This President won't fail the American people. This President will keep his promise to America, I'm confident.

LEVIN: And look at all the heat he takes. You know, every President couldn't take this kind of heat. A lot of them with buckle. And all he is trying to do is what he is supposed to do and follow up on his campaign promise and protect the American people.

Tom, it's been a great honor to meet you, my friend.

HOMAN: Thank you very much for having me.

LEVIN: Keep up the good work. And I'll see you next time on "Life, Liberty & Levin."

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