This is a rush transcript of "The Five" on October 25, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST (on camera): Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Dagen McDowell, Harold Ford, Jr., Jesse Watters, and Greg Gutfeld, and this little guy.

It's five o'clock in New York City. This is THE FIVE.

President Biden hitting the road pushing his multitrillion dollar spending plan as he becomes increasingly unpopular with the American people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This is a tax cut, changes the lives of the American people. So, let's get this done, let's move. We have the most -- we have the most talented workforce in the world, what are we doing? What in God's name are we doing? By the way, you hear these numbers, 3.5 trillion or 1.75 trillion, we pay for it all. It doesn't increase the deficit one single cent.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera): And with a backdrop of Americans facing product shortages and soaring inflation, Biden's approval numbers are going off a cliff, he is losing more ground from the start of his term to now than any other president since World War II.

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen warning that the high prices battling consumers, well, they are here to stay.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, HOST, CNN: When do you expect the inflation to get back to the 2 percent range which is considered normal? Two thousand twenty-two, 2023, when?

JANET YELLEN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: Well, I expect that to happen next year. We are going through a period of inflation that is higher than Americans have seen in a long time, but we haven't lost control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera): And some of the media are telling Americans to just stop complaining. The Atlantic writing "worried about the supply chain? Stop buying so much stuff," which is not really the most American of attitudes, Jesse.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: No, it is not. And you know, we get these types of things when Democrats are in office. You know, it's all of a sudden, it's our problems. The president's problems become our problem so the media can shift the accountabilities to the American people. So, you know, shut up, you pampered shopaholic and start lowering your expectations, that happened a little during the last Democratic president or Barack Obama.

We would get hit with a domestic terror attack and we were told that's your fault, you, Islamophobe. Or we would get high gas prices and they'd say you shouldn't have bought that gas guzzling SUV. And then a Republican gets in the office and everything is his fault. Racism, sexism, your girlfriend has a drinking problem, everything on the earth is that president's problem.

But the problem with Joe Biden is he is creating problems and then he is ignoring the problems he's creating. The American people want him to focus on the border and inflation. He's not doing either one and that's why his poll numbers are sliding so dramatically. He's like either the Tinder date. You see his picture; he looks like a 10 and then you meet him at dinner and he is two.

PERINO: It happens all the time.

WATTERS: Right. And you have to sit now to a four-course meal with this stiff and you are thinking how do I get out of here? You know, he was kind of had blurry picture during the election because he was hiding Biden and now, he is in full focus and he is ugly, and we don't like this guy.

So now you are seeing Janet Yellen come out there, can she go one paternity like Mayor Pete did? Because every time she opens her mouth, I'm scared. She comes out and she misses inflation last year, she po-pooed it, that's a verb, and now we are hit with a major inflationary period. She says that's going to last until at least next year and then she says this, but we haven't lost control.

It is in that reassuring from the treasury secretary? I feel so much better now that you guys haven't lost control but now you have high prices, you have high fuel prices and you have low growth and a weak dollar and that is a recipe for disaster.

PERINO: So Dagen, can we get your take on all of that?

DAGEN MCDOWELL, FOX NEWS BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I thought it was weird that Janet Yellen was staring up at the ceiling like this. I don't know what she was looking at but again, when somebody won't look you in the eye, they are lying to you. It's not under control.

They have no -- the Federal Reserve this is an unprecedented experiment of monetary policy of the amount of money they've been pumping into the system and they haven't even begun to start pulling back on it, they're monetizing on debt. They're buying the debt at the federal government issues. That alone is going to be a disaster.

But I do love that if you're spending is going to be socialist, then the way you pay for it also needs to be socialist and they are talking about this new annual tax on realized capital gains which is a wealth tax, which is, I don't care what anybody says, you are confiscating people's wealth and it is fraught with peril, raises so many problems whether it's only for billionaires.

My big fat side it's only for billionaires because what ends up happening is these taxes, this type of taxes never raises enough money. Billionaires are going to move so who does it end up hitting? People much lower on the financial scale.

Look at alternative minimum tax originally designed to hit less than 200 people, it hit millions and millions of people --

PERINO: Yes.

MCDOWELL: -- a few decades from them. But it also will expand the power of the Internal Revenue Service. It's un-American and unconstitutional. So, but again, Biden is governing for applause and accolades overseas which is where he is going later in the week and that's why he's getting the double middle finger from Americans who drive and shop at grocery stores.

PERINO: His biggest drop, Greg, has been with some Democrats but mostly it was independents, like it just free fall.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS CO-HOST: Yes. And this is a, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he just keeps yelling at us.

PERINO: Yes, why yelling?

GUTFELD: Yes. Why is he -- it's like we're all pulling wheelies on his front yard on a Sunday and he is coming out shaking the rake. To your, you know, your point about we haven't lost control, that is part of the whole idea of setting a low bar. Hey, we haven't, you know.

But this is the -- this is the depends presidency. They have lost control. But the slogan is suck it up. And it's being pushed by the media as you saw with that article, the same media that vows any restrictions to act -- medical care access or housing by an illegal alien, that would be seen as bigoted.

But if you're an American, you suck it up, you have to deal with loss. Right? You have to -- with diminished availability of products. So people who aren't from America or illegal aliens they get the carrot but it's the citizens who get the stick. And what's hilarious is they are damning citizens for buying stuff after they gave them the money to buy the stuff.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: So, you're telling us that now we must appeal --

WATTERS: good point.

GUTFELD: -- to every rational punitive pronouncement that you have. First, take the money. Don't spend that money. And here's my deal.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: And also, don't save it.

GUTFELD: Don't save it either because that's bad. But it's a -- here's my deal. If you want Americans to pull back, you have - you have to as well. No more flights to push climate change, no more met galas, no more expensive dining out at insanely priced Italian restaurants, you know, this let them eat cake thing is wearing thin especially when we can't find any cake.

PERINO: As it take --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: It's empty shelves.

PERINO: You got to wait in lines.

GUTFELD: It's empty shelves.

PERINO: So, President Biden is going to New Jersey to campaign for the Democrat Phil Murphy, he is running for re-election for governor in New Jersey, confessed I'm going to pay a lot of attention to Virginia, not to New Jersey. I didn't realize and now I've been educated today by friends saying that, this race is a lot closer, it quietly tightened. Do you think there's a possibility that the Republicans could win in New Jersey?

HAROLD FORD, JR., FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Probably not. I mean, it's a blue state but you got to remember we talked a little bit about it before coming on. I think this is -- this will be the first time a Democrat when Phil Murphy wins gets reelected a governor of New Jersey. I think like 45 years.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: They had to be worried enough to send Biden in there.

FORD: No, no. So I think there's -- so then you add to it all of the consternation around some of the issues that we raise here and some of the issues that we raise every other day around most of the days about Biden and the immigration crisis and how this might be bleeding over to these candidates.

But I would remind everybody as much as we sound a little gloomy about things, the Dow and SEP (Ph) S&P, which is not the only barometer, closed at a record today.

MCDOWELL: How Trumpian of you.

WATTERS: Yes.

FORD: No, no. I'm a capitalist, always have been and I think the Democrats, my Democrats, the Democrats I align with, are we where we want to be? No, there's no doubt their prices, prices have gotten too high. But I would remind everyone also we have incentivized investing in this country to invest in companies and to force management teams and companies to be really efficient.

And as a result, that efficiency breeds a lot of things including profitability, including more investors but sometimes when if demand gets a little lopsided at one way, it creates problems. They didn't get all of this right with all of the stimulus and so forth. I'd much rather earn this and stop giving people too much during a crisis and during the moment we face than not.

Further, Dagen said it as well. Since 2007, we've had nothing but an experiment with the Federal Reserve for. And some of it they've gotten right, some of it they've gotten wrong. I actually wish they had earned a little more a little more and sometimes maybe pulling back.

And I think that's Summers (Ph) was saying a little while ago. He didn't -- I don't know if he was saying don't spend is much on stimulus although he did say a little of that. He was really concerned about the fed. So, we've got to look at all of this on a table. And in fact, when the fed does what it does the people who win the most are rich people.

PERINO: Do you have confidence that the Biden administration is paying attention to those issues?

FORD: Well, I do --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: And have some like --

FORD: There's smart people there. And I think Janet Yellen, I don't know what she was looking at when she was talking, I didn't see her interview. But she is smart and she is capable. And clearly, Jerry Powell and the team they have the tools to do what needs to be done if this thing does get out of control.

But to your point, politically, I think the country is blaming Democrats for this. That's why the president was in New Jersey, that's why he is probably going to have to go to Virginia. But I will tell you this. There is one guy Democratic they wouldn't count out ever in an election. That's Terry McAuliffe. He is the best retail politician we have on our party.

PERINO: Right. Well, a (Inaudible) walked back from the National School Board Association after calling parents domestic terrorist but has the damage already been done?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MCDOWELL (on camera): A huge reversal in the battle over education. The National School Board Association says it's sorry for calling parents domestic terrorists. But this is after the Department of Justice use that group's letter as justification for the FBI to target passionate parents speaking up at school board meetings. And so far, there is no indication that the DOJ is backing down.

And you get a load of this, former President Obama stumping in the Virginia governor's race and mocking parents concerned with what schools are teaching their kids.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We don't have time to be wasting on this phony Trumped up culture wars, these fake outrages, the right-wing media's peddle to juice their ratings, and the fact that he is willing to go along with it instead of talking about serious problems that actually affect serious people? That's a shame.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCDOWELL (on camera): Greg, I know a lot of parents in Virginia who are libertarian, independent, Democrats, and they are mad as hell and he is missing the mark.

GUTFELD: Yes, he is Alicia Silverstone, clueless. We'll be right back. I forgot how powerful a feeling it is when you were scolded by captain superior, it's been a while. Right?

WATTERS: Yes.

GUTFELD: He wags his finger like a golden retriever's tail when you break out the peanut butter. So how does, like how does he square this feeling when the school board apologized to the letter that apparently didn't mean anything? It's pretty funny in a way when they apologize for the letter, they through Merrick Garland under the -- like they treated Merrick Garland like my sheets when I was a teenager, hung them out to dry.

Anyway, my theory is stall it from Jesse -- I'm all over the place today. Obama gets his news from CNN so he doesn't get half the news that everybody else covers. He doesn't know about CRT. He doesn't know the first thing about it, he doesn't know about the rape in Loudoun County that was supposedly and maybe allegedly covered up by the school board. Then you have this letter that everybody knows about that was a direct threat against parents.

So, you can spot a CNN viewer, somebody that is writing on low information like Merrick Garland. You know, it's all the same. Did I make any sense?

WATTERS: You made so much sense.

MCDOWELL: Yes, you made so much sense.

WATTERS: So much sense, especially about your bedsheets.

MCDOWELL: It is a loser for the DOJ, Dana, to try and stifle the speech of parents which is what they are doing, it was a threat not backing off of the memo that Merrick Garland wrote, but also, critical race theory is taught and promoted in Virginia schools and there is plenty of evidence that McAuliffe is lying about, that President Obama is lying about, and they are telling that to the parents who are angry who see it firsthand.

PERINO: I never understand why the administration just doesn't take yes. Take yes for an answer. So, or like get out of the situation because the Supreme Court said you can't do that and just be like sorry, left, we tried but the court. Or, well, gosh. The School Board Association is now saying in the letter if they want to withdraw the letter, then we'll withdraw the guidance, like no problem, got it, and move on from it.

Instead, they just want to continue to fight which continues to ratcheted it up. And this is intensifying the GOP turn out in Virginia. If Youngkin does win, then this will be a big reason why and the fake outrage that the former president is talking about will be a big reason.

But I'll point out when number two that you might have missed today. Fairfax County in northern Virginia is one of the most attractive counties for parents because it's got excellent schools, property tax is pretty high, but excellent schools. Since the pandemic started, 10,000 students have left.

So, to me, a lot of parents have already voted in that northern Virginia suburb and that's where they are sending Biden tomorrow. They're not sending him to Norfolk where you might get some persuasive. They're not going to Richmond. They have to go to northern Virginia tomorrow for President Biden's rally.

MCDOWELL: Right, well it's close to home. And he can, you know, it's a short trip, he doesn't get sleepy as the day moves on. But Harold, it was the what's actually happening isn't happening messaging --

PERINO: Yes.

MCDOWELL: -- from President Obama and all the quite frankly McAuliffe and the rest of them who are campaigning in Virginia.

FORD: Look, this race is close is obviously close and it will continue to be close right up until the last minute. I think, to step back for a moment. I think it's great that the National School Board Association said look, we made a mistake here.

I wish more people in public life, business, politics, academia, media can step back and say when a mistake is made. That doesn't make you weak. In fact, I think that makes you strong -- stronger particularly if you can look at your mistake and say here's what I was trying to do.

The reset button should be pushed on both sides. I wish some of the parents, those school board members who covered that Loudoun County story about the bathroom is one of the most haunting things. We've covered multiple stories in the last few weeks, those people should be held accountable and an investigation should be held -- done and those people should be held accountable if that story is right.

Furthermore, we should not this -- we should not encourage parents to confront and try to threaten people with violence elected officials. Everybody should step back and do this. That's what I hope we do and I hope we all follow the words of Candace Rice (Ph) who said it best last week.

Black kids don't need to sit in the classroom and told they are great and white kids be told that they are bad and white kids shouldn't be told they are great and black kids shouldn't be told they are bad. Better teachers, better school, and better curriculum can help.

I don't mean to wag them like a golden retriever but all of that can help create that kind of situation. I hope whomever wins this raised in Virginia and I want Terry to win, I hope that's what they are committed to doing.

MCDOWELL: But Jesse, the comp -- go ahead -- but the company panorama that is peddling this garbage to schools that is run and co-owned by Merrick Garland's son in law. garland will get asked about that again on Wednesday.

WATTERS: That's like it's got everything you want in a story, potential corruption, you've got race, you have a retraction in a cover-up and the White House conspiring with the school board, you have a transgender bathroom rape cover-up. And then A.G. comes out and bombs and is clueless on the whole thing and then it all now is, I don't want anything to do with it.

And CNN doesn't cover the story, it doesn't even break on CNN and Fox covers it and so Barack Obama goes out and he goes, you know that culture war? I don't want to -- let's talk about culture wars. This is a culture war his side started. This is a culture war his side is now losing and now he says this is a phony culture war.

You don't -- you don't get to start a culture war and then call it phony once you start losing, that's not how this works and then all the parents if you are upset, your son is being called a racist, they're angry. Now, no, that's fake outrage. Your daughter gets raped by a guy wearing a skirt in the transgender bathroom, you're not really angry, you are just fake angry.

And let me just tell you a little bit about how business works in TV, Barack Obama, Fox News covers the culture war that you started because it's real news so people come to Fox to watch real news. CNN doesn't cover this culture war story and so people don't want to go to CNN and their ratings go down.

That's how this works. So he can't come down and say parents, ignore your parental instincts, ignore that gut instinct, that mama grizzly instinct, that motherly instinct that you know something is wrong with your mother -- your daughter or your son at school, ignore that. That's not a winning message.

PERINO: No.

WATTERS: That message is broken.

MCDOWELL: They can ignore it because their kids went to private school just like Terry McAuliffe. They don't --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Can I make a --

MCDOWELL: yes, go.

GUTFELD: Can I make a prediction? I think the Republican is going to win in Virginia and you want to know why?

WATTERS: Why?

GUTFELD: His name is Youngkin in and it's about --

WATTERS: Young kin.

GUTFELD: Young kin. Huh?

WATTERS: I like it.

MCDOWELL: I love it.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Well, that's exactly why he's --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: A bod, prediction.

GUTFELD: That's why he's going to -- a bold prediction.

WATTERS: Go to the polls. It's about the main --

GUTFELD: Karl Rove has nothing on me.

WATTERS: You didn't even in a white board, Greg.

MCDOWELL: Can I -- can I just give real quick, everybody an update? The judge did give an update. The judge ruled that the boy who raped Scott and Jessica Smith's daughter did engage in nonconsensual sex and sentencing will be next month.

PERINO: OK.

MCDOWELL: Up next --

GUTFELD: It didn't happen.

MCDOWELL: Yes, it didn't happen. Up next, Dr. Fauci facing calls to be fired after a bombshell admission on gain-of-function research in Wuhan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: America's top Dr. facing new calls to resign after being accused of lying to Congress. Dr. Fauci has repeatedly denied under oath that the National Institutes of Health funded controversial research that could have contributed to the pandemic.

But a letter from the NIH or NIH, acknowledges funded virus research in Wuhan. A Senator Rand Paul has been sounding the alarm and wants Dr. Fauci gone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): He should be fired. I mean, the things is, he still --

UNKNOWN: You think that Dr. Fauci should be fired?

PAUL: Absolutely.

UNKNOWN: By the president.

PAUL: yes, absolutely. The thing is just for lack of judgment if nothing else, he's probably never going to admit that he lied and he is going to continue to dissemble and try to work around the truth and massage the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD (on camera): But Fauci still claims he did nothing wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I obviously totally disagree with Senator Paul, he is absolutely incorrect. Neither I nor Dr. Francis Collins, the director of the BIH, lied or misled about what we've done.

When people talk about gain-of- function, they make that implication which is unconscionable to do to say well, may be that research led to SARS- COV- 2. You can ask any person of good faith who was a virologist and they will tell you absolutely clearly that that would be molecularly impossible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD (on camera): Molecularly impossible, Jesse.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: That was my nickname growing up.

GUTFELD: Exactly. Now the issue --

WATTERS: Yes.

GUTFELD: Here's the problem. If you call for Fauci to be fired, that less likely it will happen because Biden kind of his more reactionary. You saw that with the wall, the remain in Mexico. if somebody in the other side he's got to go he's just going to say no he's not.

WATTERS: Well, he might not be fired but he might retire.

GUTFELD: yes.

WATTERS: Because of the dog thing. So, Emma comes into breakfast this morning and she said, did you see Fauci kill dogs and I had to look around and yes, he gave grants to Tunisia to do these deadly experiments on dogs.

GUTFELD: Eagles.

WATTERS: they would like rip their vocal cords out so you couldn't even hear them screaming as they were infected with these insects and they killed them. And you know, a lot of people say gain-of-function, gain-of- function the bats and the bats, but it's the dogs that the Americans are going to be most upset about and that might push Fauci overboard.

Here is why we hate the media, Greg.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: Rand Paul gets up and accuses Fauci of doing the gain of function in Wuhan, and Fauci denies it. And the media just takes Fauci his words for it, instead of looking what Fauci said, looking what Rand said, and then looking at the evidence to try to find out the truth. The media doesn't want to know the truth, and that's why we hate them.

Now, here's why we hate Fauci. Fauci got caught cold. And then it goes on Stephanopoulos' show and he says he doesn't like the implication that that specific grant led to that specific virus that was COVID-19 that killed 700,000 Americans. That's not what we were saying. We are saying you funded gain of function, sloppy, risky research at this nasty lab, a lab which leaked and killed almost a million Americans. And that is true.

GUTFELD: All right. Harold, let's -- I will steal man Fauci his defense and say, perhaps he had a different definition of gain of function than Rand Paul, so they were talking get to different -- like, past each other. Could that be it? I mean, that's the only way I can see this happening.

HAROLD FORD JR, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CONTRIBUTOR: So, you know, as I've shared on the show before, I'm not a clinician, I'm not medically trained in this regard. But as I think about what I've heard over -- the bodywork over the last few months, it feels like that there's collaboration amongst lab, scientific labs (AUDIO GAP) Americans in Asia (AUDIO GAP).

And I think they have (AUDIO GAP) of the things that we've done here, all in an effort to try to bring about solutions and try to figure out cures. Now, I don't consider myself a supporter of anybody's politics, because I buy from their franchise. Like, I'm a big Chick fil A fan, I don't think when I eat (AUDIO GAP) sometimes you get 12 piece, those nuggets and a large fry that somehow No, there I'm contributing to someone who has a different position, and I do about choice.

Also, I don't think if I buy an Apple or Nike product that I'm contributing to China's ability to build up their military. I think we have to, again, step back. And I think Fauci and Rand Paul, we ought to just let them get in the room and shut the door for about an hour and see what happens because they can't seem them -- the two of them have a deep, deep-seated personal kind of animosity towards one another.

In the facts, you can't get to the facts anymore, because they are so --

WATTERS: Oh, no, we can get to the facts. We got to them and Fauci lied.

FORD JR.: No, no, but Jesse, I differ. I don't -- I don't if you look at -- I think if you look at this whole body of work, I don't believe that Fauci (AUDIO GAP).

WATTERS: There's evidence that they funded gain of function at Wuhan.

FORD JR.: They would have made -- would have met every president, every administration in last 50 years would have been guilty of this. And I don't think anyone --

WATTERS: No, gain of function started recently. It's risky. A lot of scientists don't even like it because it's too risky. And it was funded through eco-health. And now, we don't know if it caused this pandemic. What we're saying is, it was risky research at a sloppy lab, a lab that ended up leaking and killing us.

FORD JR.: What I'm most concerned about I'm now a believer in is that this was not a leak. That this -- I believe I'm more of the belief that there was something intentional done there. And I --

WATTERS: Oh, you think the Chinese and intentionally leaked this virus?

FORD JR.: Well, I think it might have been manmade.

WATTERS: I'm glad you said it, and I didn't say it.

FORD JR.: Well, no, I think -- and because they -- and the reason I say that is they won't let us in.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: Yes.

FORD JR.: And I think that presumption has to be made. If they won't let us and to investigate, I think you end up thinking the worst. Now, I could be wrong, but that is why I've arrived at that point. Because if I didn't do anything wrong, I want everyone to know I didn't do it. I'd say it and I'd declare it.

GUTFELD: Dana, your thoughts?

PERINO: I would just say kind of along the lines of what you were saying. I believe that Senator Paul and Dr. Fauci both want the best for their constituents in America. And so, I think it's very unfortunate that the argumentation is gotten to be like a political lightning rod to try to move, move people in one way or the other. I think it's very good to try to get to the bottom of it.

To Harold's point, I would love more focus on the China piece because whatever was happening in the lab, whatever was happening, it could happen again. And also, we have to just presume that they did. I mean, that's what I think we should tell China. We don't need to have -- somebody called today for another bipartisan commission. I really don't think we need one.

GUTFELD: I'm tired of those. I'm tired of them, Dagen.

DAGEN MCDOWELL, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: Because we never get any answers. I don't know who is still worshiping at the heck-tastic altar of Tony Fauci at this point. If he was -- he's past his usefulness if he ever had any usefulness. He's good at lying. Because he clear -- there's no way for him to know how that money was allocated in that lab unless he was there.

And Harold was essentially saying, American dollars went to create a bioweapon that was unleashed on the world and kill five million people.

FORD JR.: No, no, let me make it very clear. I did not say that.

MCDOWELL: Well, that's the implication Mr. Ford.

FORD JR.: That is not my implication, that is your interpretation of what I said. I want to be clear.

WATTERS: That is molecular impossible (INAUDIBLE)

MCDOWELL: But all of these organizations that we need to rely on as a nation have become politicized under Joe Biden. Fauci his organization, the CDC, and Rachel -- Rochelle Walensky kowtow into the teacher's unions with children vaccinated who still have to wear a mask, the National Institutes of Health, when we need them, nobody in this country is going to trust any of them. And Fauci is leading the way.

GUTFELD: All right, up next, new details on what exactly went wrong in the Alec Baldwin movie set shooting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FORD JR.: New details on what happened just moments before the fatal movie set shooting involving Alec Baldwin. Affidavit said the actor was practicing cross-drawing a gun from its holster and aiming the gun it at the camera. The gun then went off killing the cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injuring the film's director.

Cast and crew members said they heard an assistant director yell cold gun before handing it to Baldwin, meaning it was safe to fire. And two people reportedly handled the weapon before giving it the Baldwin.

This is an awful story, Greg. I mean, and we'll -- the lawyers in the courts will sort through some of the liability issues here. But as we -- as things come out dripping that are so -- it just gives it even more color and more horror, what are your thoughts?

GUTFELD: Yes, it's -- every piece of information paints a truly careless, reckless set. And whoever is in-charge of that is usually the producer, and Baldwin's a producer. But they're -- they violated some incredibly simple rules that even I learned when I got NRA instruction. You treat every gun as loaded. You don't point it in anyone. That's the bottom line. I learned that within the first 10 minutes.

I've been at gun ranges where even if you joke about stuff, they'll throw you out of the gun range. And -- or if anybody is just -- like, if anybody moves, they just literally will pound your arm and tell you to stop it.

So, what happens in these movie sets is the play acting, nothing is real, always somehow encourages people to deviate from safe handling, right? The gun is like -- you watch them, they point guns in stupid ways an NRA instructor would have nipped this in the bud. The question is are they ever allowed on movie sets? That's like having a smart conservative on CNN.

This is a case where the people that you scorn, if you're on -- if you're in Hollywood the people you scorn, right, Trump supporters, whatever you want to call them, NRA instructors, actually possess the skills that could help you. It is though -- if you have this -- if you're a conservative and you have to stomach the left-wing ideas of your yoga instructor, right?

You understand that more likely he's going to be liberal. Then, you should get a real honest-to-God gun expert. He's probably going to be a Trump supporter. He's probably going to be an NRA instructor. But instead, whoever was in charge of your safety, had no clue, no experience, no wisdom. And for that, a woman died.

FORD JR.: Should we have -- I think you're right. You probably have to have this kind of training. If you don't have that kind of training, should -- just use fake guns in movies from here on out to make sure it doesn't happen again.

PERINO: I mean, I understand the desire to have real guns, like -- and the interesting thing about this the story line in the movie, one of the story lines is that a rancher gets accidentally killed. And so, I get it. Like, you want a vintage gun and it's there. And there's a lot of movie sets that use these. This doesn't happen often, obviously, thank goodness.

I'm really interested in the liability perspective because again, you have the personal question, the carelessness, the recklessness, and then the production company. And I think that it could lead to something like what you're saying.

FORD JR.: Jesse, so we have the right to bear arms, but with that right comes great responsibility. Using the gun responsibly. Don't point it at someone. Check it. Clear it. Don't carry it around cavalierly. And I understand what the bad Greg was saying on Friday is that people who are irresponsible with their rights to bear arms shouldn't take away the right to bear arms from those people who use those rights responsibly like 99.9 percent of gun owners.

That's what people are a little bit upset here with the situation. Baldwin was negligent. The crew was negligent and a woman died. And a lot of times, if you have an accident people still do get charged whether it's negligent homicide, manslaughter. And someone is going to have to investigate all of the things that went wrong and there were a half a dozen things that went wrong. And it there is a strong possibility that he may get charged as the producer and as the shooter.

FORD JR.: You think -- so you think he's responsible because he is the shooter.

WATTERS: I think he has legal exposure --

FORD JR.: As the shooter, I don't think --

WATTERS: As a shooter and the producer.

FORD JR.: So, you think as the shooter. I understand it's very -- but you think the shooter, he has responsibility. He just -- even though he's told with --

WATTERS: Yes, I do.

FORD JR.: Dagen, What's your thoughts on that?

MCDOWELL: My prediction, it'll be a civil case and not a criminal one. Criminal, very rare. Look, they're going to get sued into kingdom come over this. The production company, even individuals. Criminal won't happen. Twilight Zone case where the filmmakers weren't taken to court in a criminal case and they were acquitted. It was the death of Vic Morrow and two kids with a helicopter crash. That was kind of the template for criminal lawyers and prosecutors to stay away from that.

But this is the armorer's job to make sure that the gun is -- not only that the gun is safe, but it's also the job -- I was reading a lot on this for them to stand up to the producers who are going to cut costs.

GUTFELD: Right.

MCDOWELL: And I was taking this from Greg. But this is a low-budget production. They were trying to cut costs. The cheaper it is, the more money you make when you sell it to like, Netflix.

And just one more thing on this. They were used in non-union labor. The camera guys who were in the labor union walked off. What kind of Alec Baldwin liberal are you? There's going to be a blow up rat on your next movie set if he ever goes back to one.

FORD JR.: Rats. Up next, one of the greatest rants on Hollywood candy you will ever see.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Mississippi State head coach Mike Leach had a lot to celebrate after his team's dominating win this weekend. But not many were expecting the next epic rant on his favorite Halloween candy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You hate candy corn. What's your favorite Halloween --

MIKE LEACH, MISSISSIPPI STATE FOOTBALL COACH: I hate candy corn. I mean, I completely hate candy corn. When I was a kid -- well, gummy bears -- let's see. Gummy bears for sure, the herbals. It's got to be the herbal ones. And then, the other thing I like is the -- is when they used to have the sprees in a box. It's outstanding. You have to go to the Dollar Store to find it, but I do.

You know, they have those nerds clusters which is new.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The gummy.

LEACH: Yes, which is good. The nerd clusters is good. And then if you go chocolate, probably Almond Joy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: And then he praised Europe, Dagen for candy innovation. This guy knows his stuff.

MCDOWELL: He does. I don't -- it's all sugar so what's the difference between candy corn and gummy bears other than the texture? I don't understand that logic. But I can warn you, as you get older, all your favorite candies will pull a filling out.

FORD JR.: They will.

MCDOWELL: They will. I'm not -- I will have some candy.

WATTERS: You want to do candy corn or are you -- are you a candy corn guy, are you a gummy bear guy? Where do you stand?

FORD JR.: I'm a gummy bear guy. I want whatever he had. After the next game I watched him on TV to talk -- he seemed like he was having a good time. Gummy bears I'd go with. And I'm a Snickers man and a Skittles guy.

WATTERS: Yes. The chocolate thing kind of came out of left field. I did not see Almond Joy coming.

PERINO: Yes. You know that commercial Almond Joy or Mounds, do you remember that?

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: Yes.

PERINO: Are you chilling for that? Like, I don't like either.

WATTERS: No.

PERINO: And I never understood -- like there was a great affection for the Mounds. And any -- if I got those in my Halloween bag, they would go straight -- I don't think -- I don't even know if my dad liked them.

GUTFELD: A great effect -- a great affection for the Mounds.

MCDOWELL: I'm really --

GUTFELD: Take that out of context, America.

WATTERS: All right, Gutfeld, up I'm going to try these nerds gummy clusters and you just go off.

GUTFELD: All right, OK, here's the deal. He was my hero up to a point. We're probably at the same generation. Anybody who brings up sprees -- you notice you don't even have that here because they're very hard to find. Sprees are amazing.

I remember the ads from it. There was always a woman holding a long tube of Sprees --

PERINO: Yes, it wasn't in a box.

GUTFELD: Yes, it was in a tube, but then they moved to boxes.

PERINO: Oh, they did?

GUTFELD: So, he's right about that. Also, the innovation in England, .amazing chocolates. But then he went to Almond Joy and he lost me.

WATTERS: Why?

GUTFELD: Because coconut is disgusting in a candy because it's too flaky, the texture is weird. You have to always go with toffee, score heat bar.

WATTERS: Toffee.

GUTFELD: Score Heath bar.

WATTERS: Yes, score Heath bar.

FORD JR.: That's a good bar too. Heath bar -- Heath bar is a good one.

GUTFELD: Heath bars are amazing. You can't find Heath bar anymore. The --

PERINO: (INAUDIBLE)

GUTFELD: Do you remember the Marathon bar, the flat Marathon bar, or the $100,000 bar which is great. So, he was -- he was great until he went into the Almond Joy road.

WATTERS: Yes.

GUTFELD: That was dead to me.

PERINO: I wonder --

WATTERS: And then he fumbled, Greg.

GUTFELD: He fumbled.

WATTERS: That's a football reference.

PERINO: We should find out what the $100,000 bar -- 100 grand would be worth today.

WATTERS: Oh, whatever it was, Janet Yellen didn't see it coming. "ONE MORE THING" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for "ONE MORE THING." I'll go first. In case you hadn't heard, we have a new wonderful family member, and his name is the Fox Weather Channel. And it's -- it got an app. It's called -- you go to FoxWeather.com. You can go to the Apple store. You can go to wherever Android devices where you get that. I did it this morning. It was so easy.

You just go there, download the Fox Weather app. And then it's pretty cool. All the things that you could get on it. You just --

GUTFELD: You can control the weather.

PERINO: You can't.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: No, you can't.

GUTFELD: Yes, you can.

PERINO: Well --

GUTFELD: Look, I'm making it rain in Jersey.

PERINO: Did you get the -- did you get the super-size one? I just encourage everybody to download this app right now. You don't want to be the only one without this app because you get all this extra information, exclusive 3D mobile radar, you get to go inside the storms. And the people that are on the Fox Weather Channel, they're lovely, absolutely lovely people.

So, get to know them. Check out the show, but also download the app because that's where you get all the good stuff. Jesse.

WATTERS: Well, it didn't rain where Greg tried to in New Jersey this weekend because I was at a pumpkin patch and Whiteman Farms in Morristown, New Jersey. That's right, Whiteman Farms, Greg. Don't make any jokes. Jesse Jr. was there in the patch looking very, very cute. There's Ellie I think slinging apples. That's how you do. You don't go apple-picking, Harold. You sling apples at targets and then you win prizes.

FORD JR.: Incredibly safe.

WATTERS: And there's Jesse Jr. Getting held by Sophia when we got back looking very cute. And that was the weekend basically, and now I'm exhausted.

GUTFELD: It wasn't like mine at all.

PERINO: Did you pick apples?

GUTFELD: I also went to a white man's farm. Anyway, let's do this. Greg's Haunted Dog House News. You know, there's a German Shepherd guard dog being trained, but the owner is training for security reasons, but he trained him using a haunted house. Let's see how the dog did. Usually, they run him up through different things. It's amazing --

PERINO: Oh, my gosh. That poor dog.

GUTFELD: But he handled it quite well. In fact, he was not fazed at all during this training exercise. They had skeletons, they had other things. I'm just talking because I really didn't watch it.

WATTERS: He handled it better than Dana and I.

GUTFELD: That's a good --

PERINO: I was just thinking about that the other day.

GUTFELD: Why don't we find out how you guys handled this?

WATTERS: Oh, no.

PERINO: Oh, no. oh, my god.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Those were the days.

PERINO: That was too much. It was too, too much.

WATTERS: We were just putting it on a little bit.

PERINO: Were you?

WATTERS: Yes.

PERINO: Well, I was not. But I just tucked in and hid behind Jesse the whole time. Harold?

FORD JR.: He wasn't kidding. I want to take a second to give a shout-out to my man Bernard Langer. 64 years old, oldest one to win a PGA Tours champion event. Congrats to you, brother.

And then, second, today is the 35th anniversary --

PERINO: Wow, two "ONE MORE THING."

WATTERS: Well, you get a little too comfortable.

FORD JR.: -- from the 86 World Series. You'll see why. Yes, I might be. 86 World Series. Show this.

GUTFELD: Show this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Mookie Wilson. Little roller up along first, behind the back. It gets through Butler. Here comes Knight and the Mets win it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FORD JR.: That's how the Mets close out Game Six of that series, and a few days later went on to win the World Series. Congrats to them.

WATTERS: Congrats. My dad just had another heart attack.

PERINO: Dagen.

MCDOWELL: There's a 34-30 on it, right?

FORD JR.: There is, a good one.

MCDOWELL: Yes, it's very good. There was a Beard Olympics over the weekend in Germany. Oh yeah. You know, a lot of these men look like that they maybe lived in the Old West here in the United States of America. Instead, they came from all over the world. There were judged on density and length of their hair in categories like mustache dolly, whisker freestyle.

PERINO: You know, will be here tomorrow. We can find out if he spent the weekend in Germany.

GUTFELD: It's particularly impossible.

WATTERS: Oh, very good, Greg, very good.

PERINO: Great show, everyone. Thank you so much. That is it for us. "SPECIAL REPORT" is up next. Hey, Bret.

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