'The Five' on Kamala Harris' office, Jussie Smollett trial

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'The Five' react to Kamala Harris' reported 'soul-destroying' management style

'The Five' discuss a Washington Post report that said working in Harris' office is 'soul-destroying'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 6, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Katie Pavlich, Richard Fowler, Jesse Watters, and Greg Gutfeld. It's five o'clock in New York City and this is THE FIVE.

Vice President Kamala Harris being called a bully with a poor work ethic, reports of dysfunction growing inside the VP's office where more high profile staffers are reportedly looking to the exits. Axios says there are staff concerns about being branded as a Harris person after working for her is leaving many A's to look for new jobs.

This comes after a blistering report by "The Washington Post" where a former Harris staffer details how bad working there can be, quote, "It's clear that you're not working with somebody who is willing to do the pre and the work. With Kamala, you have to put up with a constant amount of soul-destroying criticism and also her own lack of confidence. So you're constantly sort of propping up a bully and it's not really clear why."

Those kinds of accusations seem to go against President Biden after taking office. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not joking when I say this, if you ever work with me and I hear you treat another colleague with disrespect, talk down to someone, I promise you I will fire you on the spot, on the spot, no ifs, ands, and buts. Everybody, everybody should be treated with decency and dignity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: But don't worry, this weekend, a single Harris staffer tweeted this out, I work for Vice President Harris. On behalf of the American people, as deputy director for operations and absolutely love my job. Just thought some of you should know with a smiley face.

Greg, I think at some point, she might ask her junior staffers to stop trying to help.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Yeah.

PERINO: It's not helping.

GUTFELD: That was like the equivalent of a teacher's pet reminding the teacher that she forgot to ask for the homework that was due. It was just like everybody in the office is looking at that guy and just going, what? But anyway, I am on team Kamala. This sounds like a bunch of whiners that are intimidated by a strong woman of color. I think they are probably misogynist and probably racist because after all that's what they would say if you had the same criticism.

This is a problem for society to have. When we find out that we have an awful leader in the second-highest office in the land is also a person of color, that is a sign of progress, right? She has reached a point in society where she is no better than obnoxious white old guys.

That is really -- I mean the -- look, look, this this is a true achievement and diversity, and we can't ignore it. She is just as awful as all the white guys that can't -- this is like then moon landing for identity politics, right? A woman of color has finally gone where no woman of color has ever gone before. She can be a complete utter jerk just like a Kennedy can, just like anybody can.

But the bigger lesson here is that you cannot judge people by a single variable, in this case identity, because then you'll never find out who the person really is, right? So, many -- so many mistakes are made by following this of single variable of identity. Liz Warren screwed up her life, you know, pretending to be a Native American because she thought that was -- that was the variable.

The elevation of Jacob Blake, that was because a single variable, identity, the choice of blending an SUV over a criminal was based on the single variable, identity. So, all of the biggest mistakes that we're making are based on one variable in which all you see is identity.

Kamala is teaching you that this doesn't work in the employment world. You cannot rely on diversity quotas to find out if somebody is competent or not. It's just --

PERINO: Yeah.

GUTFELD: It just appears.

PERINO: It's interesting way of looking at it. There was a question at the briefing from Jacqui Heinrich to Jen Psaki about that tweet but about the larger issue. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The director of operations tweet today talking about how much he loves his job. There was a similar sort of social media push this summer following some negative headlines about ongoings in the Vice President's Office. Did anybody ask the deputy director to put out a positive tweet today or was that all him?

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I'm not aware of any asks to pour a positive tweet or a specific tweet. I would point you to the Vice President's Office. But I work with a number of people in the Vice President's Office who certainly are looking forward to continuing their jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: This is a question they probably don't want there, Jesse. The other thing is that I thought it was kind of a -- kind of a sick burn with that anonymous staffer saying -- former staffer saying she doesn't do her reading or look at the briefing.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Yeah. Kamala's office is like what would happen if the New York Jets became vice president, will just be a comedy of errors that everybody would enjoy.

I think it is a little unfair though for "The Washington Post" to put out this juicy --

PERINO: Yeah.

WATTERS: -- quote, soul destroying criticism. You can't say that and not give us a direct quote. I mean, they cover Donald Trump for four years, wrote books about the guy, and then had the most vividly colorful quotes attributed to Donald Trump, and you can't say one thing that she said was soul crushing criticism.

GUTFELD: That's so true, yeah.

WATTERS: I mean, what does that mean she was a bully, was she giving wedgies? You have to tell us what that means. It's not fair to the reader. It comes off as cheap. And then it goes into the predictable cycle like, all right, well, you know, she's only being attacked because she is a woman of color.

But she is being attacked by Democrats who wanted to work for her, many of whom are women, and many of whom are people of color. So, that doesn't make sense she either hired sexist bigots or it is what it seems like to be, and this is what it seems like to be.

She has impostor syndrome. She knows she's not qualified to be the vice president, so she is trying to make her way through. And she try to fake away through the second most powerful job in the country, you're gonna fall flat a lot. And so, when she falls flat, she takes that out on her staff. And the staff doesn't like that because they expected more from the first female of color vice president.

And so, they're trying to pivot out of these positions as fast as possible so they're not labeled Kamala people.

PERINO: Right.

WATTERS: The other thing going on here with the "The Washington Post" is she's a low hanging fruit. The real dysfunction in the White House is Joe Biden.

PERINO: Yeah.

WATTERS: He is overseeing a cascade of policy failures. He's mentally unfit. He's almost physically unfit to do the job clearly. And they're going after Kamala because it's easy. It's kind of like that personal --

PERINO: But it is --

WATTERS: -- color game that you get to do for clicks and stuff. If they want to do real brave journalism, put the scrutiny on Joe Biden at the same level you're giving it to Kamala. That's real journalism because that's what people really care about.

PERINO: And Richard, there a lot of Kamala Harris Senate staffers and campaign staffers that didn't get to come to the White House or maybe they didn't want to or maybe they weren't asked. So, there are probably a lot of people out there for "The Washington Post" and other journalists to contact to see, you know, are you unhappy, and I'm going to imagine that a lot of them think, well, I wouldn't be so bad if I were there.

RICHARD FOWLER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Listen, I think that's part of it. I also think that when any time you come into Washington without a clear arch of the narrative, what is your story, what's the story you're telling, what is the mission that you're on, the Washington media will create a narrative for you.

And what we see happening here to Kamala over and over, story after story, is the Washington media is doing what they do best. They're creating an arch of the narrative for you with quotes from folks who are all anonymous, right, which is the palace intrigue which we're used to. We saw this under the Donald Trump administration. We're seeing it again.

And I think we're -- and listen, as a Democrat, I have some honest criticisms against the vice president, one being how they -- how we treated the Haitian migrant at the southern border after the State Department issued policy we're moving some of our diplomats from Haiti because it was unsafe.

But with that being said, I think where we need to see some improvement in her office is she needs to come up with a narrative for the American people and an argument for the American people of why she is there and what she's working on and make that very clear so she can push back against a lot of the palace entry.

PERINO: OK. But Katie, she did run for president. So, presumably, she had created -- I mean, she had an idea of what that narrative would be.

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: And the media helped drive her narrative by doing no vetting of her in her capabilities during the 2020 presidential election when Joe Biden decided that she was the best woman for the job.

I mean they built her up as the first woman of color to be the vice president, the first woman to be the vice president. They did nothing to ask former staffers what they think of here, what her main issues are, why it was so important to her to be doing -- to be locking people up in California as a prosecutor but all of the sudden changed her mind when it came to her own policies and those of Joe Biden, why she changed her opinion on Joe Biden being a racist, for example.

They didn't vet her at all when it came to those issues. But I will say, you know, what the staffers are accusing her of, not reading briefings, really shows up when she does these interviews and starts laughing uncontrollably and that also goes to show that maybe she is a little bit insecure about the issues she's talking about. But the media had a lot of involvement there and not asking her tough questions.

On the other side of it, I have to question too whether these staffers are really --

PERINO: Like how high profile are they.

PAVLICH: -- that were -- you know, there's a lot of younger people who feel very entitled and who have a hard time dealing with high expectations. They take things very personally.

PERINO: That's true.

PAVLICH: So, maybe she's a tough boss. Maybe this is true. Maybe both sides are right in some ways but --

PERINO: Remember -- what was it that "The New York Times" when they printed that anonymous --

WATTERS: Oh, yeah.

PERINO: It was a very senior administration official and Trump administration and it really wasn't --

FOWLER: Listen. If you have something to say about the vice president, don't say it off the record. Say it on the record and be a man or woman about it.

PERINO: And how about this, just go to work and do the work, and that will help. All right. The Biden administration changing its tune after last week's dire forecast about the new COVID variant.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: After pushing fear and causing panic, the Biden administration now backtracking on the dangers of the new COVID variant. Last week, the White House put in place travel restrictions, extended mask mandates, and launched new testing requirements. But now they're saying Omicron might not be that bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER: It's too early to really make any definitive statements about it. Thus far, it does not look like there's a great degree of severity to it. Hopefully, we'll be able to lift that ban within a quite reasonable period of time. I mean we all feel very badly about the hardship that that man have put upon, not only South Africa, but the other African countries.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: And New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio using the new variant to announce the first of its kind vaccine mandate on private businesses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: We're going to announce a first in the nation measure, our health commission will announce a vaccine mandate for private sector employers across the board. All private sector employers in New York City will be covered by this vaccine mandate as of December 27th. We're going to have some other measures as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Dana, I don't -- he's priding himself on being the first to do something insane.

PERINO: Yes. And he will also be the first mayor to be slapped down by the courts.

GUTFELD: I hope so.

PERINO: Because if you see what's happening with the Biden administration, the courts are saying, no, that's -- that doesn't -- it doesn't work that way. It's not going to happen. I think that this actually was more about him trying to get to the left of Governor Kathy Hochul because he wants to run in -- for governor. So, he's saying like, OK, well, she's done these types of things, what can I do to get more attention so that the left will like me more than her as they go into a primary.

The other thing is with the administration, if I were them, I would be -- I would call a big news conference and say, this is the best news. It's not that bad.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: Right? Like be excited, be happy about it. Instead they did this - - they made a list of 17 things the Republicans are doing to thwart Biden's attempt to get back -- get out of COVID. And I just think that shows that they're missing the boat, like be for what people want to be for, which is some good news out there.

GUTFELT: Yeah. This is great news. Katie, I'll play devil's advocate, I'm not even sure what that means, but it was a good movie. Is it better to come out with ominous warnings and then backtrack than the reverse, which is to say it's no big deal and then it becomes a big deal?

So, this is a good problem to have, but they're screwing it up.

PAVLICH: I think that may have been true a year ago -- a year and a half ago. It's been so long now, January 2020 when we had no idea what this was. It's been almost two years. We know a lot about what's going on here. We have many different vaccines.

And for Dr. Fauci, again, to go out and scare the entire country in the world to thinking this is going to be the death everything again did immeasurable harm and these policies that he has been implementing by default because people are listening to him, including the teacher's unions and everything else, have caused an insane amount of harm, including when the New York governor, because of this new variant said, no more elective surgeries.

Well, OK, when we shut down everything during COVID last summer, hundreds of thousands of people throughout their -- should have gone in for cancer screenings and they didn't. so, now, the healthcare system is bracing for this massive cancer wave of cancer that's too far long to help people.

UNKNOWN: Oh, geez.

PAVLICH: So, they haven't balanced any of this out. And yet, they continue to push this narrative of gloom and doom forever because they like power, they can't get themselves off of it, and they're willing to do whatever it takes to stay in power and continue to persist narrative as the mayor of New York did today without real science behind it.

GUTFELD: Richard, is it time for the Biden administration to ease up their racist hateful travel restrictions?

FOWLER: So, let's start -- let's start with the --

GUTFELD: He has blood on his hands.

FOWLER: Let's start with Bill de Blasio. I think any time somebody who is a lame duck elected official tries to make drastic changes, that's problematic. So, we'll put that in the show.

And now, let's get to the -- to the White House and this new variant. Now, I'm one of those people -- and I hear where you're coming from, Katie, and I understand there's a lot of Americans out there who are fatigued with COVID, COVID variants, vaccines, mandates, mask mandate, this mandate, that mandate --

PAVLICH: It's not just fatigue, they've been --

(CROSSTALK)

FOWLER: Hold on. Hold on. Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second. But I think with that being said, I think -- I was a boy's scout, right, and I think it's better to be prepared. So, I think to your point, Dana, I think that to see a White House say, listen, we think this is coming. We're not sure exactly what it is.

Now, I do have problems with banning countries who don't have any cases there. But the idea that they said, we don't know what it is and we're prepared to deal with it, and then saying, now, we know what it is and it's not as bad and were starting to roll back --

PERINO: Yeah.

FOWLER: -- our preparation is the right way to go. Should they have been more excited and enthusiastic about the fact it's not as bad --

PERINO: This is good news.

FOWLER: They should have been. But I think this is the right move at the beginning to say, people, be cautious until we find out more.

GUTFELD: Jesse, have you made sure to get your hair vaccinated?

WATTERS: I have secret doctor down low. It's like an underground thing.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: We'll do that. I hate to say this but I agree with Richard. You can't lame duck mandates like this. You can't -- these are the most severe mandates in the entire country, you're gonna lame duck a mandate like this? Hey, you know, what? He's closing the doors, like I'm gonna destroy the tourism business and small business. I'll see you later folks. Like, no, you're just going to leave this on the lap of Mayor Adams and he's going to have to deal with this, no.

The Omicron is the reason -- it's like a case study in why we don't like Fauci. He talks too much. He's not the announcer of a pandemic like it's sporting event. We do that. We're doing the --

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: -- day-to-day commentary as things develop. I want him to say, you know what? We're going to study it. And then when he studies it he comes out and tells us the facts. Instead he says, it might be worse, well it might not be worse. Well, the vaccines could be effective, they might not be effective.

And then he says this, well, the travel ban, hopefully, we can drop it within a reasonable amount of time. What does that mean? That means days, that means weeks, that means months. Why is he even talking about a travel ban? That's not his wheelhouse. Fauci just needs to stop speculating and just tell us what the facts are and then we can make our own judgments.

GUTFELD: Yeah. He should cut back.

PERINO: It's not -- that from a long time ago, I remember saying to him, like you don't have to say yes to every interview request.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: But also the other thing that they did in relation to the travel ban is they said anyone coming from overseas has to get a test 24-hour -- within 24 hours. Before, last week, it was two to three days.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: And now, think about how many people are scrambling to get test -- imagine if you're traveling with your family, you got four kids, you got to try to figure it out, it's a lot. And somebody in the testing world is going to make a lot of money. (Inaudible) when I get into the testing business.

GUTFELD: Maybe you should.

WATTERS: I think Hunter Biden's probably there.

PERINO: Probably so.

GUTFELD: Oh, boy. He's taken a lot of tests, that's for sure. All right. Coming up, AOC says the anarchy you were seeing right now on the streets isn't real. We'll explain that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAVLICH: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez telling Americans to not believe the crime every single day. AOC coming under fire for downplaying the massive looting's sprees playing in the country after saying, quote, "a lot of these allegations of organized retail theft are not panning out. I believe it's a Walgreens in California cited it, but the data did not back it up."

That, despite the new videos that seem to come out every day, showing more and more brazen lawlessness and local officials keep blasting the liberal policies that enable to crimes to happen in the first place.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MCKINNEY, L.A. COUNTRY DEPUTY DA: Undoubtedly, bad law and bad policy is driving this most recent spike in crime that we are seeing in Los Angeles. If you look at the types of crimes that are concerning us right now, they are directly rooted in bad law from the legislature and bad policy from LA County District Attorney, George Gascon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAVLICH: So, Greg, here we are with another strategy of telling people what they are experiencing or seeing in their neighborhoods or the videos that they're seeing directly isn't happening.

GUTFELD: That's why -- I mean it's funny when I listen to AOC. I don't -- or any politician or any activist or -- I'm not upset at the criminals, because they are reacting to the incentives, criminals criminalized. It's those -- it's AOC, it's the leftist Das, the far left activists who provide the incentives, no bail -- no cash bail is one of them.

But I'm also -- you know, this caused me to go back and read some of the stuff that is out about these smash-and-grab. There's also -- we got to lay a lot of blame on the virtue signalling companies who when this crap went down said that they were supporting the activists and that property destruction was not violence.

Marc Jacobs excused the looting in my neighborhood, he has a store there, my neighborhood got destroyed, millions of dollars in damages, people laughed about it on the set. And he said the damage isn't violence. And it was easy to say that when you were super rich, you own the stores and you were insured. Meanwhile, your entire neighborhood is gone.

So "The New York Times" had an interesting piece where they link today's heinous crimes to the evolution of the criminality during the Floyd and Kenosha riots. So, you have thieves, groups, gangs exploiting the media's redefinition of riots as protests, right? We talked about that. They exploded the law enforcement simultaneously as they were stretched thin trying to deal with the protests but also being demoralized and being filmed in case they ever did try to stop any kind of crime.

So, this never was about protests. This was about profit. Even the stores that were victimized, they did not want to discuss it. So, the Democrats have strayed so far from my sensible worldview. When you can't see that no cash bail in this leftist DAs are incentivizing more crime, you are not fit to run anything. AOC, I have always defended her. I thought she's got charisma and charm and -- but to say something there that to the people that have experienced it, she is no good, she's a bad person.

PAVLICH: Yeah. You know, Richard, corporations in California, and not to mention small businesses are closing. Dozens of stores -- it might not hurt the corporation much, but it sure hurts the people who work at the stores, who need to earn a living.

I will never forget there was a video interview of a woman named Stephanie disabled in Minneapolis last summer who was interviewed, not a white woman, and she was crying because the stores that she was able to walk to, that she could be on her own and be self-sufficient with, were destroyed and nobody cared about it.

FOWLER: Well, listen, I think there's nobody that wants looting in their community, right? Nobody wins looting. Nobody wants crime in their community. And I think when you have -- and I think it's very important that Democrats in this moment as we see an increase in crime don't play lip service and say here's how we're actually going to address that crime. Here's what we know. We know there's certain cases in which cash -- having cash bail works and there's some case where it doesn't work.

When you have crimes of desperation, when people go into grocery stores and steal baby formula, that is a crime of desperation that should be met with cash bail. When you have somebody with a rap sheet that's as long as the pair of pants that I have on right now, right, you those people aren't supposed to get cash bail.

Those people that we should find a way to say, listen, you will get punished or will give you incentives. And incentives also do work. Remember, the first step back was all about providing incentives those folks who made mistakes and are trying to correct their lives. So, we have to have a delineation between those two things.

PAVLICH: So, Jesse, but Democrats built the crime wave, and now they don't want to pay lip service to what's happening and actually deal with it when the policies that they voted for and put in place are still justifying today including the Governor of California. Now, it's like, sorry, I guess we'll try and clean this up.

WATTERS: Well, that's why I'd rather have a dumb politician than a stubborn politician because they're both going to make the same mistake. But the dumb politician will change their mind. Stubborn politicians just keep doing the wrong thing like the Democrats do over and over again.

The left is struggling with the politics of smash and grab just the same way they struggled with the politics of the black lives matter riots because it's on tape, Katie. You can't say to the American people it's not happening when it's happening. And you're seeing it on local TV every day at 5:00 or 6:00. You're seeing it on Facebook, seeing it on cable news.

You can't say it's not happening. Remember, Antifa is this -- doesn't exist. Jerry Nadler said it was the mayor from chopper chase (PH). It's the summer of love until there's a couple homicides. CNN say, these are mostly peaceful protest. So, they have to make a decision are they going to own up and address some of these stupid policies or they're going to deny and deflect.

The difference is this time as opposed to the summer of 2020, there's no righteous racial component to the riots. These are professional criminals doing targeted heists. It's not about Trump. It's not about George Floyd. It's about burglary.

PERINO: Yes.

WATTERS: And you can't say to someone in a commercial shopping district downtown with security cameras everywhere and 100 witnesses is about George Floyd. You can't deny it when it's happening in the dark -- you know, in the inner city, someone gets shot, no security cameras, two gang members, you can -- you can deny that. You can't deny it if you see it in your own eyes.

PAVLICH: Well, you can't deny it, Dana, if it happens to you. And you've interviewed a lot of people on newsroom who are victims of these policies.

PERINO: Yes. Well, and also, if it were people smashing and grabbing baby food, then maybe you know, that would be one thing. But this is not Jean Valjean, OK. They're like going into Nordstrom or Louis Vuitton or any of these other fancy stores and smashing the windows, scaring the employees, running the customers out of town.

And we talked to this woman today. Her name is Rachel Michelin. She's a California Retail Association. She said to AOC, it absolutely is happening. And one of the problems that she sees is that -- imagine that you have a big box store like a Nordstrom, and then small businesses will try to get as close as they can to that Nordstrom so that they can be within walking distance or get that foot traffic.

And if nobody's going to the stores, then it doesn't -- you know, maybe Nordstrom can afford it though they shouldn't have to, but the small business owners, they're the ones who can't do it.

The last thing i would say is we really have to focus on this. And I want to do a story on it soon. This idea that you can -- one of the reasons are getting all these fancy material luxury goods is because there's no policing of the resale on the internet. So, you can go -- you can make up your own like, Amazon store or on eBay, and then you're selling these fancy bags for less expensive price.

And they -- you actually can track the merchandise but there's no one policing any of this resale and that's a big problem.

GUTFELD: I can go on there and get like a nice bag cheaper?

PERINO: And you won't get in trouble and they won't get in trouble.

GUTFELD: So --

PERINO: And they don't get prosecuted, and they don't get bail.

GUTFELD: Well, e maybe we're -- maybe we're going a little too fast against these smash and grab people.

WATTERS: Right. But if you say anything mean about Fauci, they'll take you right off the internet.

PAVLICH: Greg still has Christmas shopping to do.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PAVLICH: And he's on a budget.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PAVLICH: All right, Jussie Smollett takes the stand in his hate from hoax - - hate crime hoax trial. Those breaking details up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOWLER: The Smollett saga gets even crazier today. The actor takes the stand to defend himself while on trial for allegedly faking a hate crime, Smollett continues to insist he's innocent and now claims under oath that there was no hoax.

So, Jesse, you've been a follower of this trial. Where do you think this is going to go?

WATTERS: Well, he doesn't have anything to lose, right, so why not? He's already -- what was it, the Robin Roberts interview? I believe it was Robin Roberts. He cried and he wept. So, he's practiced, you know, his performance on the stand. And I don't know what he's saying today. He testified that he does a lot of cocaine and that he smokes blunts in lunch breaks when he's acting on Empire, and oh, yes, he watches gay porn and makes out at bathhouses in his free time.

Like, that -- he testified to that. He testified to that. And then he said that his face was very important to him. And he said that because he calls himself the black Cary Grant. That might make me the white Denzel Washington because this guy is delusional. And I just wish I was there today to see him under cross-examination. I don't know how it's going to shake out but no one will ever name their son Jussie after this.

FOWLER: So, Greg, during the break, we were talking about the fact that -- I mean, for this trial -- for the defense, they just need one juror to say I'm not 100 sure, and this is a mistrial.

GUTFELD: I think that's his strategy is he's trying to overload the jury with titillation and all this story just the cloud stuff. He was -- brought up that Don Lemon actually texted Smollett and told him that the Chicago PD didn't believe him. That's -- I mean, CNN, you got to change your name to WTF because you got some -- you got some serious problems over there man. Time to clean some house.

But I -- you know, I returned to my earlier point I said, I guess on Friday, what he's doing to the Nigerian brothers is exactly what he did to the non-existent MAGA supporters. He's accusing them of a hate crime. He enlisted the guys, and that he's trying to pin it all on them. It's pretty disgusting but it's not surprising.

FOWLER: Dana?

PERINO: Well, I would love to get an interview with one of the jurors when it's over because I want to know how do they sit through this with a straight face. I also think that they're watching an actor. And much like watching that interview from Alec Baldwin last week that he did with George Stephanopoulos, you have to wonder like, what -- is he really telling the truth?

The difference here is that it really matters. I mean, he is under oath and there could be serious consequences for him. There should be.

FOWLER: Katie?

PAVLICH: Well, I, like Jesse, would never stage a hate crime like this because I care way too much about my face. And I would never want someone to beat me up so badly. But he did something, and I know that you feel the same way, Jesse, absolutely.

WATTERS: That's right.

PAVLICH: I think Jussie missed acting, that's why he convinced his lawyers to put him on the stand. When I heard that was happening, I was like OK, wow. But I go back to the media reaction to this when it first happened, and that's also a really important thing to remember, because they, including the vice president who still has the tweet up, immediately took his side.

They didn't wait for any of the facts because they just assumed of course this would happen in the middle of a negative 30 blizzard in the middle of Chicago while Jussie Smollett who was making $2 million a year was out to get a Subway sandwich instead of ordering Uber Eats.

I mean, we'll see what happens but, you know, I just -- the whole thing from the beginning was made in bad faith. There's a lot of weird stuff going on in the trial and in the testimony, and the jurors will decide for themselves what they think about it.

FOWLER: We'll have to wait to see what happens there, but up next CNN's Chris Cuomo is fired. But could he take his old boss with him?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: I know. I agree. Both Cuomo brothers are now out of a job. CNN officially giving Chris Cuomo the axe. The former anchor now calling out the network and denying he ever lied to his boss, Jeff Zucker, about how he was supporting his brother.

Cuomo was suspended for trying to dig up dirt on Andrew Cuomo's sexual harassment accusers. And now we are learning Chris is being hit with another harassment claim. CNN saying CHRIS didn't give them any options.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN STELTER, ANCHOR, CNN: Chris Cuomo, one of the most popular anchors at CNN, one of the best-known names in television news violated journalistic ethics and norms not once or twice but many times, and that's ultimately uh what is the result of today's news. There was death by a thousand cuts where there were just so many headaches.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Death by -- all -- 999,000 of those cuts, CNN never even acknowledged.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

PAVLICH: It's like, what are those?

PERINO: And also, remember that they didn't care about the policy of what was going on during COVID. But they were doing -- it was like -- there was like -- as Jim Garrity put it today, that you know, there were theater critics. Saying, oh his -- Andrew Cuomo's briefings are so fun and they're so interesting.

WATTERS: Oh, they love him.

PERINO: And that was what led to them relaxing their rule that they couldn't be on television together doing interviews, and then they were just for fun, then it turns out actually the nursing home is a huge problem, the book was a really ridiculous thing. And at the same time, there's going to be this dispute and this story is not over because if Chris Cuomo is going to try to go after Jeff Zucker --

WATTERS: Yes.

PERINO: And CNN is going to have to figure out a way to deal with this, I mean, obviously the Cuomo brothers like to fight, so we're in for more entertainment.

WATTERS: They could be -- yes, both going down fighting. Greg?

GUTFELD: Well, you know, the both of them are going to be on my show tonight.

WATTERS: Nice. I'll be watching.

GUTFELD: Yes. No, I am lying. I love how Stelter was just like, essentially drooling over the leftover Thanksgiving carcass. And he's like, oh yes, he's really good but he's gone now, everybody, I'm available. And then there was another bit where he said -- I asked somebody who was on a show, has CNN lost trust on this? And it was like, of course, they have,. but it's not Cuomo alone, right?

It's like -- it's like asking if CNN has lost trust. How can you say that when you've actually -- your fingerprints -- CNN's fingerprints are all over the corpse of trust. They are -- I mean the five-year collusion hoax, fine people hoax, drinking bleach, every day is worse than Watergate, Smollett, Covington, Kavanaugh.

All of these things build up a case that CNN's trust is gone. I think this is an opportunity for this network, and I know they listen to me for advice, Zucker will call me but I'm often busy. This is the time for them to regain their lost luster by perhaps cleaning house, maybe deciding that the oppression olympics isn't the way to go, stop pitting people against each other, identities against identities. Maybe return to the fact that we're all Americans.

I know that's not their profit model. The profit model is that get this group against this group. But if you had -- you know, if you just finally realized that Americans could really return to just being Americans, that would be a good start.

WATTERS: Do you think, Katie, CNN would do that, would go back to a more straight news presentation?

PAVLICH: I don't know what they're going to do. I'm not going to speculate on what they're going to do. But what I do know is that the war between Andrew Cuomo and Zucker has completely started -- Andrew -- Chris Cuomo, excuse me. Chris Cuomo is not going to go down alone and he might have a point.

It was a very beneficial relationship that Andrew Cuomo was the governor of -- governor of New York, was a foil against Donald Trump, and CNN had him on whenever he wanted because he was the brother of Chris Cuomo. We all watched it happen. We watched it play out until it was no longer inappropriate because things started going downhill for the governor, and now there's all these allegations of what an -- what an internal investigation found from an outside law firm which they conveniently left out of the announcement when they said that he had been fired, that they didn't say exactly what all the problems were.

But I think that the executives knew a lot more than they're willing to let on. And there'll be lots of lawyers involved to find out and lots of leaking going on about what was found and what that death by a thousand cuts because. If it really is a thousand cuts, a lot of people would like to know what the thousand cuts are.

WATTERS: Richard?

FOWLER: Look, I think uh this was -- I think it's very clear that Chris Cuomo didn't tell his boss the entire truth. And what makes this really sad is because when you're a journalist, especially in an anchor chair, there's ethics that you're supposed to abide by. Journalism is undergirded by truth, right? It's built around the idea of transparency, accountability, and disclosure.

When a reporter fails to lead into those values, they continue to sow the seeds of distrust and mistrust towards the media. And our job is to shine light into dark places and to illuminate smoke-filled rooms and Cuomo did the opposite on all of those.

WATTERS: OK. "ONE MORE THING" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time for "ONE MORE THING." Jesse?

WATTERS: So, I was down in D.C. over the weekend and Jesse Jr. got to meet some family members. Here's Jesse Jr. with Tarun, the uncle, Uncle Tarun right there. And with my sister Eliza.

PERINO: Oh, she -- look how cute he is.

WATTERS: Very, very cute pic. And then the twins were all together with their cousin Sullen and had a blast in Washington D.C.

GUTFELD: (INAUDIBLE). Sorry. I tried. It's the reflex.

WATTERS: Yes, I wept below that picture. So, it was a great time and D.C. was alright and I'm exhausted. So, there you go.

PERINO: Well, I woke up today in a little bit of a panic about Christmas shopping. And then I remembered I had -- this as my "ONE MORE THING." So, I have a very dear friend named Francine LeFrak. She's an incredible philanthropist and she started this charity, this organization called same sky -- Same Sky Jewelry, samesky.com.

So, I am wearing this jewelry. It is not real, OK, but it is artisan jewelry. It is made by women in Rwanda and in the United States. 100 of the proceeds from the sales Same Sky Jewelry supports the fund. They train women. They educate women and girls to help them have a better life.

I love this jewelry. And I know Emma would want one. And look how easy it is to put on. Just like that.

WATTERS: Oh, very nice.

PERINO: See? And there's all these different kinds. You get bracelets, necklaces. And Katie is very graciously modeling --

PAVLICH: It matches my outfit today. Thank you, Dana.

PERINO: Yes, it's perfect.

PAVLICH: It's beautiful.

PERINO: Perfect. So, samesky.com if you want to get a great present for your mom, sister, wife, whoever it might be.

GUTFELD: LeFrak?

PERINO: Francine LeFrak.

GUTFELD: You mean like Lefrak City?

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: See? You guys -- Lefrak City, you drive by to the airport, you see that sign that says -- the same people?

PERINO: It's her family, yes, I believe. Yes.

GUTFELD: They own that sign.

PERINO: Well -- and she started this amazing charity. Indeed. All right, Greg, your turn.

GUTFELD: Oh, OK. Let's do this. Greg's upcoming convention news. All right, Dorothy, Blanche, Rose, Sophia, yes -- oh you ruined the thing for me, you people. I was going to ask them what they -- now, you just blew it. Everybody go home.

PERINO: The Golden Girls.

GUTFELD: The Golden Girls. There is a convention for the Golden Girls that is being announced for 2022. It's a three-day event being called Golden Con. I couldn't come up with something better. That's going to take place in Chicago April 22 to April 24 next year. The organizers say it's to thank the fans. I'm not so sure about that. But there will be a disco party, costume parade, pop up bar, trivia competitions. I'm definitely -- when I look at -- you know, when people ask you, well, what golden girl are you?

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: I always say that I am Sophia.

WATTERS: Is that the promiscuous one?

GUTFELD: No. you're getting -- you're getting -- oh, that's Blanche, Rue McClanahan.

WATTERS: Yes.

GUTFELD: But I see you more as -- I don't know, I think you're kind of Dorothy.

WATTERS: Dorothy?

GUTFELD: You're the Dorothy.

WATTERS: I don't know. Is that the really old one.

GUTFELD: You're the Rose -- they're all dead except for Betty White.

FOWLER: No, Betty White. Is Betty White going to be at this convention?

GUTFELD: I don't know. That's a good question.

PERINO: Oh, man, if they did, she'd better -- she'd better charge them a pretty penny.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: She better take a booster before there too.

FOWLER: She's 99 years old, by the way.

GUTFELD: Yes, wow.

PERINO: It's amazing. All right, well, that would be fun.

GUTFELD: It will be fun.

PERINO: Katie?

PAVLICH: OK, so, if you ever think should I call the exterminator, it's going to be expensive, remember this story. A Maryland homeowner accidentally burned down their house when they tried to fight a snake infection -- infestation --

PERINO: Oh, no.

GUTFELD: Snake infection.

PAVLICH: Yes. Montgomery County Fire and Rescue Services public information officers responded to the property to investigate saying the homeowner was trying to smoke out a snake infestation, but the fire began in the basement, got out of control. And by the time the firefighters extinguished the flames, the single family home had a $1 million in damage. So --

PERINO: What do you think the insurance adjuster said?

PAVLICH: Probably, like, dad should have called the professionals.

PERINO: Oh, my God.

WATTERS: He was a vigilante firefighter, right?

PERINO: Oh my God.

WATTERS: Don't just --

PAVLICH: Sorry.

WATTERS: -- let the firefighters do the job.

PAVLICH: Call the pro if you got a snake infestation.

PERINO: Yes. Richard.

FOWLER: All right, the Negro -- the Negro League Baseball Players, they owned two spots in the national Baseball Hall of Fame yesterday. Buck O'Neil and Bud Fowler, no relation, we're elected into the national baseball hall of fame. O'Neil played 10 seasons for the Memphis Red Sox and the Kansas City Monarchs. He was the first coach in the MLB. And Mr. Fowler was the first -- was considered the first African-American professional baseball player in the country. And both of them are now in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

WATTERS: See, they should have done that with the Cleveland Guardians. That is such a weak name. They should have made them The Monarchs. How much better does that sound, The Monarchs?

PERINO: The butterfly.

PAVLICH: Yes.

FOWLER: The Butterfly.

WATTERS: That's a butterfly? I thought it was like a royal.

GUTFELD: No, it might.

PERINO: It could be both.

WATTERS: Oh, yes.

PERINO: That's were in my mind. Don't forget, samesky.com if you want to get some great jewelry. It is amazing. And it all goes to charity, 100 of the proceeds.

That's it for us. "SPECIAL REPORT" is up next. Hey, Bret.

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