This is a rush transcript of "The Five" on October 4, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DAN PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST (on camera): Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kennedy, Harold Ford, Jr., Jesse Watters, and Greg Gutfeld.

It's five o'clock in New York City, and this is THE FIVE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't think they are appropriate tactics but it happens to everybody from -- the only people it does not happen to are people who have Secret Service standing around them. So, it's part of the process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera): President Biden is trying to downplay and dismiss far- left protesters targeting moderate Democratic senators, Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin. The progressive activists are taking things to a whole new level and following Sinema into a bathroom while demanding she back the president's agenda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: We need a build back better plan right now.

UNKNOWN: We need solutions to the build back better plan.

UNKNOWN: We knocked on doors for you to get you elected. And just how we got you elected we can get you out of office if you don't support what you promised us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera): And a swarm of protesters made their voices heard outside Joe Manchin's house, both insisting he raise taxes on wealthy Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Senator, this is an investment. This is not giving out money. This is not spending. This is investing. And this is building those state that we vote for. That's why we're both here waiting for our people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera): But President Biden singling out those two moderates for not getting on board and backing trillions in new spending.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We're able to close a deal at 99 percent of my party. Two. Two people that are still underway. I need 50 votes in the Senate. I have 48.

Well, I have laid out what I thought it should be. The legislation both the Build Back Better piece as well as the infrastructure piece are things that I wrote. These didn't come from God love them, Bernie Sanders or AOC, or anybody else. I wrote them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera): All right. Kennedy, I -- I just -- I can't stand phones in bathrooms. Like in the public restroom when people are on the phone. I can't take it. This -- if this what happened to me, I probably would have completely lost it. She was there to teach her class. She teaches at Arizona State University and gets followed into the bathroom, not just by women but men, too.

KENNEDY MONTGOMERY, FOX BUSINESS HOST: Yes.

PERINO: And Biden is like, yes, everybody (Inaudible) process.

MONTGOMERY: No, it is such a childish and emotionalist tactic, and it's unacceptable. You know, we saw this throughout the entire Trump administration. How many members of the administration were shouted out of restaurants. It's unacceptable. If you don't someone to do that to you, do not do that to someone else. And I really hope that this steals Kyrsten Sinema's spine.

I hope she takes this as some sort of inspiration to not bend to the loud mob because she shouldn't. She should be looking at the bottom line. She should be looking at the price tag and her constituents and what they and the American people can afford and they can't afford $3.5 trillion. She knows it. Joe Manchin knows it. The entire Democratic Party knows it.

But it reminds me of when my 16-year-old daughter wants to go to Lululemon and buy some stuff. I'm like, how much does this stuff cost? And the Democrats are acting like my daughter. They want to pretend like it doesn't cost anything.

And so, AOC and her squad cohorts are saying, let's not focus on the price tag. Let's not focus on how much this stuff cost. Like, yes, we absolutely are. Because I know you can't afford those Lululemon pants. And I'm sure as heck I'm not going to buy them for you.

PERINO: I don't -- I think Kyrsten Sinema seems like the person -- kind of person, Greg, who would not be bullied into changing her behavior because of being followed into a bathroom.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS CO-HOST: They're -- you know why she went in there. She was trying to stall them.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: No.

GUTFELD: There's something about the fact that she is a woman which is why they did it because there's an exception --

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: -- that she wouldn't be violent, which is wrong. She should have been. She would have every -- a guy follows her --

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: -- into the bathroom and I don't know. Maybe doesn't identify as a guy. But if a guy followed my wife into the bathroom, whatever he identifies with, would soon be a non-lifeform. She has like, I'm sorry. I don't know where, when this happens, when is violence -- violence is certainly OK in this.

If you are in the bathroom and somebody is filming you, that is an assault. It's an assault on you. That is your privacy. You should kick that door out, hit him right in the face, and that's the end of it. And then if they got.

And by the way, in this notion of equity and equality, it doesn't matter the gender is if somebody is coming into your bathroom. If don't see it as a problem then you should have any problem fighting back. However, I say that not understanding the law. So, I legally (Inaudible) Harold to tell me if what I just said would actually be illegal to go out and beat the crap out of somebody who is filming you in the bathroom.

Biden is wrong. It doesn't happen to everybody.

PERINO: No.

GUTFELD: It doesn't happen to -- it never happens to a leftist. If you are a non0liberal including Democrats, it can happen to you. In a perfect world, yes, we can all have Secret Service like Joe. And we can all swim naked in front of them. But unfortunately, a lot of us don't have Secret Service or pools.

PERINO: That's true. We should get a pool, though, for all of us to sure.

GUTFELD: That's disgusting.

PERINO: Harold, Kyrsten Sinema's position was let's pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill. And she said, that Biden supports that bill. That was actually the position Speaker Pelosi was in whipping that bill, trying to get support for that bill when President Biden came in on Friday afternoon, he was like, actually, no. We want these two things to be linked forever. And I think that there are a lot of Democrats who are probably hiding behind Manchin and Sinema hoping they don't change their minds.

HAROLD FORD, JR., FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I don't -- I don't think there are many hiding. I think they are out-front. First off, I think that I've had people not follow me into the bathroom but I've had people harassed and say things the horrible things, and it's part of the business. You got to kind of deal with it. Like Joe Manchin, that he's got a skill, humor. He got on the back of his bone. He's like, I'm with you guys. I'm just not with you on everything.

Two, we have to remember, Biden beat Sanders in the primary. Democrats rejected Sanders. Now you may not Biden's plan but he beat Sanders and Sanders ran on, essentially the $6 trillion plan. Now, the -- I think the majority of the Democratic Party is with Biden and is with even Pelosi on this, and I should say, does not want to go down the path of perhaps AOC and Sanders want.

Third thing is, I am -- the money side of this, I know we're going to talk about it later. Jen Psaki, I don't think what -- and we disagree on this. I don't think what Biden is saying, they say this is zero cost. All he is saying is that it's paid for.

MONTGOMERY: No, no, no.

FORD: But you might not like how -- no, no, no. You may not like how it's paid for.

WATTERS: Who is paying for it.

FORD: Right. But I understand what we are talking about. We now have a debt ceiling debate in this country right now because we passed things that we never ever pay for. Now you may not like the fact that taxes are being raised on people earning. I don't like parts of it. But at least, at least he has the decency to say, we are going to not add debt to on top of the already $27 trillion worth of debt.

MONTGOMERY: Well --

FORD: In fact, I think anytime -- I think anytime Congress votes in the future, for something that they don't raise revenue for, they should automatic -- for a line and say, we will automatically raise the debt ceiling for this and not have a debate about raising it. Because now the Republicans not want to do it --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Then it would be limitless. Like, it would --

FORD: No, no. But everybody would be on the record voting for it.

PERINO: Al right.

FORD: Because if you are a member of Congress and you voted for saying --

PERINO: I see.

FORD: -- I'm going to pass something that is going to cost two trillion, a trillion, three trillion, whatever the number, that were are going to raise the debt ceiling to do it, then you're on the hook for it as opposed to being able to say Jesse did it or Greg did it, or Greg and Jesse did it, or Dana did it.

WATTERS: Well, you guys now are going to be the $6 trillion man after he is finished with this. I want to talk about this woman.

PERINO: OK.

WATTERS: I actually went into a bathroom and --

PERINO: Ambushed.

WATTERS: -- followed Al Gore. But unlike this woman, I have standards. And once I realized I was following someone into the bathroom with a camera, I went up and I turned around. She is 47 years old. She is way too old to be doing something like this. She's got a Ph.D. from George Washington University. And she is following people into the bathroom and screaming at them? She is also a Bernie Sanders field organizer. She introduced crazy Bernie a couple times. She is not some low-level person on the totem pole.

PERINO: Right.

WATTERS: This is a Bernie bro or bro-ette. However, you want to refer to it as. And I didn't like her deliver the way she memorizes this. It was chanting. And at the end if you watch the whole thing she is giggling afterwards. You are supposed leading questions.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: And listen to response. Right? That's the way you do this. It's called bur docking. It's when you kind of harass politicians in public places. Totally different than what I used to do.

GUTFELD: And also, the irony is that, filming it does not help her cause. Like we saw what every jackass he was.

PERINO: Yes.

WATTERS: Sympathizes with Sinema.

(CROSSTALK)

MONTGOMERY: It doesn't help her causing a purple state, certainly.

WATTERS: No.

MONTGOMERY: And full disclosure, I did follow Rahm Emanuel into the men's room.

WATTERS: Right. And did you say?

MONTGOMERY: He -- he was in there for a long time. He -- I had to leave after a wild.

WATTERS: All right. And it is, Greg. Greg, it's a felony --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: It was --

WATTERS: -- in Arizona to film someone in the bathroom.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: It is a classified as felony.

GUTFELD: Well, what if you punch them?

WATTERS: That I don't know about. Somebody --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Somebody give me a ring. I just need to know this.

MONTGOMERY: What about pepper-spray?

PERINO: Yes, we need -- things we need to know for the next block.

Coming up, the White House just got busted for misleading Americans. We are going to tell you what that's about, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD (on camera): We're not a good one either.

WATTERS: The White House getting caught a major lie about the price tag of President Biden's massive socialist spending spree. This comes after the administration and ally spend another weekend continuing to push the idea that the multitrillion-dollar plan wouldn't cost Americans a dime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): What we've said from the beginning is that it's never been about the price tag. It's about what we want to deliver.

CEDRIC RICHMOND, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER: We don't look at this as a number. We look at this as what programs are we going to deliver.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): President Biden has been a good faith partner to the entire Democratic Party. He reaches out and he actually tries to understand our perspective and that is why I am fighting for his agenda with the Build Back Better Act. This conversation shouldn't be about numbers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: And just a few hours ago at the White House Jen Psaki forced to admit the Biden administration has been misleading Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Following up on something that you just said, you said that the president is going to have a virtual meeting with House progressives to talk about how this Build Back Better package is now going to be smaller than $3.5 trillion. Well, you have been saying that it cost zero? So, are you now admitting that the plan does not cost zero? Or is it less than zero?

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, let's not dumb this down for the American public here. So, the point is that's important to the American public, all of your viewers, too, is that this is not going to cost the American public a dollar.

DOOCY: So just to not tone it down then. Does the plan cost nothing? Or is the plan free?

PSAKI: The plan cost nothing for the American people who make less than $400,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: That's our very own Peter Doocy, Dana.

PERINO: Very own.

WATTERS: Not a bad question.

PERINO: Very own.

WATTERS: Do you think he got anywhere with that?

PERINO: I think so, mostly because I believe that people understand what's going on. If you look some of the polling from independents looking at this, there are like 72 percent against it. It's not that they -- it's not that you wouldn't say yes. Free college sounds amazing and so does free child care, like it all sounds great. But then you dig one question deeper and they are not there for that.

So, we said, to Harold, you mentioned in the first block that Biden beat Bernie in the primary. Well, he said I'm the moderate. He said I'm not a socialist, like I'm obviously the moderate. But right now, Bernie is the feast of the administration. He is the one out there calling for the six -- he say, well, we'll take $3.5 trillion, really should have been six. He's out there really helping -- AOC is out there. Jayapal is out there. Where are the moderates? They are basically like, wow, it just got kicked in the face by the president.

And so, the fact that they are continuing to say things like it cost zero, it reminds me of when the White House also tried to say that Republicans were the ones that defunded the police.

WATTERS: Right.

PERINO: It doesn't actually wash. People actually don't get it. And the last thing I would say is that the summer of disasters that we saw is turning into the fall of failures. And one of the things that is happening is that people are really focus on inflation. That is the thing to watch their people concerned about it. The fed says it's temporary but when people start seeing that meat cost 28 percent more than what they have been paying that they start to feel that.

GUTFELD: Then there should be the winter of woe, Dana. And then after that we shall have the spring of suffering.

PERINO: Perfect.

MONTGOMERY: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Are you mocking her --

PERINO: And then after the summer of --

GUTFELD: And then the summer of bomber.

WATTERS: -- analogy? You want to take this, Greg, go ahead, you're all hopped up.

GUTFELD: No, I was very excited by that. The economy is like a sinking ship, and it's operational as long as you have the buckets to empty the water out and we are the buckets, the taxpayers are the buckets. The money doesn't exist even after it spends so you have to get more and more buckets.

Basically, we're funding a multi-marketing scheme, and maybe that's why governments always been, and I just realized it now. But the fact is, you know, I'm going to spend money I don't have. Don't worry, I will tax you. Then by the time we get that money from you there's already another spending bill, right?

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: And then what do with that? Well, that's not going to cost you anything because I'm going to tax you later. So, it's this thing that keeps going. It is like a, it's a pyramid scheme, but maybe that's what it always has been. And I was naive not to see it.

WATTERS: You're not naive, Greg.

GUTFELD: Thanks.

WATTERS: Come on. You're better than that. So, to Greg's naive point, --

(CROSSTALK)

MONTGOMERY: I got baked on it.

WATTERS: You're establishing this trillion- dollar program --

MONTGOMERY: Yes.

WATTERS: -- that are going to eventually go away, then they are going to need to be refunded, Kennedy.

MONTGOMERY: Yes.

WATTERS: So, you are setting it up here and now the new spending level is now multi-trillion dollars each year.

MONTGOMERY: Isn't it insane that do you remember when the stimulus passed back in 2008 and we were all like, this is insane, $800 billion.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Yes, we thought that was a lot.

MONTGOMERY: There's a (Inaudible) never afford this --

PERINO: I could barely say the words.

MONTGOMERY: Yes, and Republicans were so mad at President Obama and it was just, you know, it was such a phenomenal number. And now we're going, no, $2 trillion, three trillion. Bernie is like six trillion that's why I want to stop. You know, Joe Manchin is like, 1.5 is my ceiling. Bernie is like six trillion is my floor. There's a lot of real estate in between.

And no one is being honest about the fact that yes, taxation is theft. There's no such thing as a government investment. Government cannot earn money. Government does not create things that create revenue. They reach into your bank account and now they want to do with the IRS.

Every expenditure you have over $600 the IRS wants banks to tell them what you're spending money on, every single purchase over $600. That is a taking. They are taking money. They are taking information. And the American public, plenty of them who make less than $400,000 a year are getting absolutely host.

WATTERS: Yes, what do you think about that. The fed what to look at everything over $600 in your checking account. Do you think that's cool?

FORD: I think that's wrong. And hope that's taken out of the bill.

WATTERS: Good.

FORD: But let's put some in perspective here. In the 80s we spent billions of dollars, hundreds of billions of dollars in defense spending, and I think it created, it was an investment in our country, it was an investment in taking down communism and we found the internet out of it.

There was an enormous amount of attendance technology that came from it. One of the reasons I think you have the private sector partnering with the public sector to send people to space is because there are going to be so many things that we learn, so many ways that our phones will work better. So many ways telecommunications, and for that matter all communications services will do better.

Now, I don't necessarily quarrel -- we can quarrel about whether or not there is enough in here to do all of those kinds of things. But government does do smart things, and can do smart things. Now, in this bill here, I differ slightly with everybody.

MONTGOMERY: Drowning children. That was a smart thing.

FORD: Bernie Sanders is not the face of my party. If we look at the face right now of the Democratic Party, it's probably Joe Manchin. I mean, people, I've been hearing people on network say there's big Joe and little Joe, and I think they're calling Joe Biden little Joe.

Joe Manchin is the most important person domestic policy in the country.

MONTGOMERY: Yes, but they all can't stand him on the Democratic side.

FORD: No, no, no. I think -- I think to Greg's point, I think there are a lot of people hiding him. You said it too. I think a people are hiding behind him.

PERINO: Yes.

FORD: So, anyway, we got a big fight here, it's now 1.5 to 2.1 is what this thing will do.

WATTERS: Yes. OK.

FORD: It's 3.5 is not there.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: One point five trillion is the moderate proposal --

FORD: No, no, no.

WATTERS: -- then my head is going to explode, Harold.

FORD: No, no.

WATTERS: That is crazy.

FORD: I'm just putting the numbers in perspective. Now we can have that -- let's have that debate.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Well, we have the perspective. It's crazy. And we can't afford it. And you know it and so does --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I don't want your head to explode, Jesse. What happens to your hair?

WATTERS: I don't know.

GUTFELD: Your beautiful hair.

WATTERS: You should talk. Your hair is higher than mine last year.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

MONTGOMERY: Closer to God.

FORD: What number can you accept when your head one explodes?

WATTERS: You don't need me to tell people what my number is. I'm not even Congress, yet. Up next, Dr. Fauci making Americans furious with what he just said about COVID and Christmas.

GUTFELD: That was a threat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FORD: Five here.

GUTFELD: Yes.

FORD: Welcome back. Dr. Fauci being accused of causing more COVID confusion. The top doc playing clean up after warning Americans about how they should spend their holidays.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: We can gather for Christmas or just too soon to tell?

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: You know, Margaret, it's just too soon to tell. We just get a concentrating on continuing to get those numbers down and not try to jump ahead by weeks or months and say, what we're going to do with a particular time.

I also said something over the weekend that was taken completely out of context. That was misinterpreted as my saying we can't spend Christmas with our families which was absolutely not the case. I will be spending Christmas with my family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FORD: Dana, isn't he kind of, damn if he does, damn if he doesn't. I mean, if he says we should --

PERINO: Yes.

FORD: -- spend Christmas together with all of our families and he has to come back in late October, early November or if he -- I mean, I kind of --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Well, I think I understand the caution. OK? We have seen him. This is how he has talked in the past but I think that you could anticipate a question like that and say, let's get through Halloween. All right? Like we're going to do the Halloween and there's plenty of time to think about that.

FORD: Wear a mask.

PERINO: I think there's a love diminishing returns when it comes to his media appearances because there are so many of them that it's become basically like white noise. So, anybody that is hanging on his every word is already doing everything that the CDC says. And if the administration finds themselves in a position of needing to, you know, reach more people or get a different message out there in some ways, you need to add a new messenger to this because otherwise, people are not tuning in.

FORD: Do you agree with that, Greg?

GUTFELD: I wasn't listening. No, of course, I agree, I agree. But any question you asked him will be the same because hedging his bets, he's got nothing to lose and being safe because he is not a leader. He is a bureaucrat. He runs a -- he runs a department. So, he is never going to choose a path where there's an element of risk. That's what the leaders do, right?

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: We -- he's used -- you use him to factor in his expertise in a greater discussion so the leader comes in and he goes, what can you tell me. And he goes, that's fine. But he will never say, get back to work because that's a risk. We had this discussion in February last year, over a year or a year half ago that it always -- it's going to come down to an adult at a certain making the risk benefit equation.

Somebody has to take the reins, not the whips, and because you are never going to risk down. You are never going to get the risk down to zero. And anybody trying is kind of people because the only way you can get the risk down to evil is by eroding freedoms.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: That's the only -- if you want to down to zero you can put somebody in a room and lock them up. And that's kind of where we're headed at this point.

PERINO: Even Australia is going to have Christmas.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly. They have Christmas there, except it is upside down.

MONTGOMERY: It is. And they go to the beach. It is like our Fourth of July.

GUTFELD: Yes.

MONTGOMERY: Christmas to them is always associated with beautiful --

GUTFELD: And a kangaroo comes down the chimney.

MONTGOMERY: That's right.

GUTFELD: And presence in his --

PERINO: A lot of stuff in his pouch.

GUTFELD: In his pouch, yes.

FORD: How do you feel about that?

WATTERS: The pouch or Fauci?

GUTFELD: Fauci.

WATTERS: Tony lockdown. Listen, he is the top infectious disease doctor in the federal government, highest paid employee in the federal government goes on the top-rated Sunday morning news show and throws water on Christmas. Fall out comes the next day and he goes, no, no, no, I was taken out of context. He actually said that and then blames other people for misinterpreting what he said, and then wonders why people don't trust the science.

We trust the science we just don't trust the scientists because the scientists like Fauci have flip-flopped on everything, masks, mandates, the WHO, lab leak. Last year he said the American people, we might not have to change what we're doing in our day-to-day lives that much. Well, how did that turn out?

But the good thing is we won't have to deal with Anthony that much longer if things keep going the way we're going.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: What do you know?

WATTERS: Cases and deaths are really, really going down. That summer surge is over. Hospitalizations are going way down. Florida's kicked it. The South has generally kicked it. It's moving up north a little bit. But if you have 77 percent of adults in this country vaccinated, plus boosters, plus antibodies, we're going to be pretty good. I think it's going to be something we can manage.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: And treatment.

HAROLD FORD JR. FOX NEWS CHANNEL CONTRIBUTOR: The one thing -- yes, one thing that doctors have, all -- and scientists have all agree is the -- is the vaccine, people getting vaccinated. So, I'll give them some credit there. What are your thoughts on it?

KENNEDY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CONTRIBUTOR: They've been horrible in their vaccine marketing because you know part of his alarmism is saying you have to get the vaccine. And even if you're vaccinated you could still get sickened by people who haven't gotten a vaccine which is an admission that the vaccine doesn't work.

My problem is he's talking about Christmas and Hanukkah. We haven't gotten to Halloween and Thanksgiving. Kids --

PERINO: Or Columbus Day.

KENNEDY: Thank you, Dana.

GUTFELD: We're getting rid of that.

WATTERS: Yes.

KENNEDY: Kids did not get to have a Halloween last year.

PERINO: Right.

KENNEDY: And it's like, you know, you have little kids. You only have so many of them. My daughter last year had to bake a twilight cake with little gravestones for all the characters. It was very cute but she wanted to be out because the biggest pro tip, come to New York City for Halloween. Why? Because these giant buildings are filled with single people who don't have kids and they buy tons of candy. And at the end of the night, they'll dump their entire bag into your pillowcase. Boom.

That's what they want this year and they're going to get it because they've been vaccinated. And Fauci doesn't -- he is not the voice of reason anymore and we need a second opinion.

FORD JR: Get vaccinated. Coming up, a former Facebook employee blowing the whistle on how big tech is hurting the country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: It's shaping up to be a bad week for Facebook. The company experiencing massive worldwide outages across its platforms as a Facebook whistleblower who gave the Wall Street Journal a trove, yes, a trove, of documents exposing how toxic the tech company is now going public. Troves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCES HAUGEN, FACEBOOK WHISTLEBLOWER: The thing I saw on Facebook over and over again was there were conflicts of interest between what was good for the public and what was good for Facebook. And Facebook over and over again chose to optimize for its own interests like making more money.

The version of Facebook that exists today is tearing our societies apart and causing ethnic violence around the world. It chooses profit over safety. It is subsidizing. It is paying for its profits with our safety.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Facebook is trying to push back on the claim saying the site reflects the good, the bad, and ugly of humanity. That should be a movie.

Now, Jesse, I will say that the outages were a distraction from the whistleblower and I stand by that.

WATTERS: What were these outages? Did we lose Facebook?

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Where have you been all day?

WATTERS: I didn't -- I didn't even know about that.

PERINO: And Instagram and WhatsApp.

WATTERS: You know what? I'm not hooked on the screens like some people, Dana.

PERINO: OK.

WATTERS: I live my life. I read. I go to the library. Why is everyone laughing? Is it that clear that I don't go to the library?

GUTFELD: It's clear because no one does.

WATTERS: Here's what I thought when I saw this. This woman comes out and says Facebook is tearing societies apart, and it's causing ethnic violence around the world. OK, last century, what did we have, the Russian Civil War, World War I, World War II, multiple ethnic cleansings all over -- almost in every continent. There was no Facebook then. We're going to now blame Facebook for my 2021 not as deadly as most of these in terms of conflict and civil war as the last century.

And then we're getting torn apart here. I don't know, civil war, civil rights movement, anti-war protests. 2021, we sit on our couches and we complain. That's as tough as it gets now. I wouldn't all of a sudden say Facebook is the root of all evil. The real root of all evil is people like CBS News executives who then point the finger at Facebook, while it's them, the legacy media that's actually tearing this country apart.

All Facebook is doing is letting people interact and talk about all these evil things that regular media is doing. Like, suppressing news, putting out fake news, you know, racial hoaxes, all that kind of stuff. Those are the real villains.

GUTFELD: That was a pretty impressive defense of Facebook. And we should let everybody know that you're on their board.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: You've changed -- you've actually changed my -- the way I think about this in a way. Harold, I have a theory. TikTok is always a head start -- has a head start on humanity. So, we build these things, and then we start using it, and then we don't know the effect it has on us until many years past. And I think you can look at that at the highways and now the superhighways.

FORD JR: So if you think about here and not and notwithstanding what Jesse said, they have internal documents that have been turned over, this whistleblower did, that showed that Facebook is aware of how some of their content is not altogether positive and healthy and that it is addictive particularly to young women.

As a father of a 7-year-old who does not engage in so -- who does not mess with social medias on social media, and you think about some of the other things in this memo that said that they were aware that these young women were so conscious of how they looked and it might have impacted them negatively, but they didn't change any of their algorithms.

Now, I don't disagree with you about whom all should be blame -- all the blame should be put on Facebook, but if you can't regulate yourself as a company like as big as this company is, one of the five biggest companies in the country, then Congress is going to do it for you.

Zuckerberg and his team are going to have to come before the House in the Senate -- this is about Marsha Blackburn and a Democratic senator whose name is escaping me at the moment.

PERINO: Yes, I can picture him --

FORD JR: Who generally don't work together. They've come together saying --

PERINO: Blumenthal.

FORD JR: Maybe Blumenthal. They've come together and said, you know what, we're going to call Facebook and Twitter and others in to tell us what other internal documents do you guys have but that shows that what you're doing is harmful to young women and children.

Now, the reason this came out is because they're trying to develop another set of products for children.

GUTFELD: Yes.

FORD JR: And people in the company said, wait a second, let's be clear about what's going on here before we go down this path and at least fix what we have --

WATTERS: Yes, I'm with you on the children's stuff, but the stuff she was blaming all the political violence on Facebook for --

FORD JR: No, no you're right. And as I said, notwithstanding hat you said. I think this -- for me, this is a children's issue. And if they know what they're doing and they're not fixing it, they --Congress should regulate the daylights out of these guys.

WATTERS: I agree with you on the children's stuff.

GUTFELD: Kennedy, you have daughters.

KENNEDY: I do, 12 and 16.

GUTFELD: You have 16 daughters?

KENNEDY: I have 16 daughters. I have a harem. They're going to play basketball and track and soccer all at the same time. But they are on social media. And it scares the living crap out of me. It really does because there are -- you know, it's not just the social pressure which I think is enormous. And we have no comparison for it from when we were adolescents.

You know, I look at my girls and I think, oh, their upbringing is so different from mine. And a large reason for that is social media. But Congress can do all they want. There's going to be more platforms.

PERINO: Yes.

KENNEDY: Kids are not on Facebook. You know, it's like Snapchat -- as a parent, Snapchat scares me a lot more than Facebook. What they see, what they have access to on TikTok -- and all these -- all these companies do is create algorithms --

GUTFELD: Right.

KENNEDY: To make them more addictive.

FORD JR: Right.

GUTFELD: That scares me.

KENNEDY: They really do.

FORD JR: That's what the memo said.

KENNEDY: Like, they figure out young brains and adolescent neuroscience and they appealed to that like cigarette companies did in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. So, yes, as parents we have to be vigilant. But I agree a company -- a private company has -- they're not selling fire extinguishers. You know, it's like they're selling narcissism and dopamine.

GUTFELD: Yes.

FORD JR: But guys, just the difference here is they know what it's doing. It's not like they're saying we're putting it out there and whatever is happening. People at the company is saying, you know what, here's what's happening with these products. They are addictive to these young women. And it's not healthy. And they say, oh, go ahead. It doesn't matter. And that's the problem for them I think.

GUTFELD: The last word to you, Dana.

PERINO: Well, I think that for those who hate Facebook, then today was a great day for them, right, because there was no Facebook.

GUTFELD: Right. But now, I just see that the left is complaining that that means there's no WhatsApp and their constituents use WhatsApp, so now they're mad because there's no WhatsApp. And I'm really -- I'm really skeptical that the government is going to come in and make everything better. Like, when has that ever been true?

KENNEDY: Amen.

PERINO: And I also think that we start off by saying, they had a really bad press week. I mean, I would love -- Facebook is probably looking like when have we had a good press week? And where are the whistleblowers for Snapchat and TikTok and YouTube is another one, right? It's where people are seeing things.

GUTFELD: Isn't TikTok owned by China, right?

PERINO: No, not exactly -- well, it's like China but the software -- yes. I mean, they would say no, but the thing is --

KENNEDY: Xi Jinping is the CEO of TikTok. And he just pulls the levers and twists the knobs.

GUTFELD: There you go. All right, "THE FASTEST" up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KENNEDY: Welcome back. It's so nice to have you. And it is time for "THE FASTEST." First up, big dumb Tom Brady making his highly anticipated return to New England --

WATTERS: What? That wasn't in the prompter.

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY: --who cares-- to face his old for the very first time. Tom coming out on top leading this -- leading two of this awkward embrace after the game with his former coach. Neither of them like the other. What did you make of that hug, Jesse?

WATTERS: I didn't think it was awkward at all. What do you want them to do, make out in the middle of like thousands of cameras?

GUTFELD: I would like that.

KENNEDY: A little bit.

WATTERS: Yes, no, it's fine. They're fine. Again, fake news.

KENNEDY: Have we made too much of this? 30 million people tuned in for the game.

FORD JR: I think we have a heck of a game. They -- Tom Brady, at the end of the game, said I want to thank Bill Belichick because he drafted me when no one else would draft me. Then apparently, Belichick went into the locker room, the Tampa Bay locker room and spent 30 -- almost 30 minutes with Brady just the two of them. So, I got to think that that was --

PERINO: That's nice.

FORD JR: I agree with you. You can't -- that's what Belichick does with everybody. He would do that to his kids.

WATTERS: Yes, he's gruff.

FORD JR: Yes, he's not -- he's a direct guy.

KENNEDY: Yes, he put his -- he put his kids on the coaching staff. That was another weird story that we're not going to get --

FORD JR: And he's never hugged them.

KENNEDY: Did you see the one wagging his tongue around?

FORD JR: Yes, I saw that.

KENNEDY: Dana?

PERINO: I think that most -- when men hug, it's a little awkward. It looks awkward but I think the feeling was genuine between them.

KENNEDY: Yes.

PERINO: And I'm glad to hear about the locker room chat. That's very nice.

GUTFELD: It's got to be hard to work in a place where you still see the people you no longer work with. Isn't that weird?

WATTERS: Yes, and then you have to hug them.

GUTFELD: And you have to hug them. Yes, I mean, imagine if I left and went to like something like CNN but you -- I'd have to see you every weekend and it'd be really awkward.

WATTERS: I'd still hug you.

PERINO: But I'd hug you.

GUTFELD: Oh that's good. That's important.

KENNEDY: Do you think your former and co-workers would swarm you like they did Brady last night? Like, Tom you never call or text. I'm going to try and touch you. We hate our new team.

GUTFELD: Yes.

KENNEDY: And now, up next, one restaurant taking a stand against unruly kids with bad behavior by banning patrons under the age of 18 from dining without their parents. So, Harold, this seems like the kind of thing where when you don't have kids, you think it's a great idea. But when you have kids, you want them to be able to go out with their friends. Where do you stand?

FORD JR: Look, I think that restaurant is right and I think they ought to get the names of the parents of those kids and ban those parents too.

GUTFELD: That's what this is -- yes, the parents are the ones.

FORD JR: Yes, it's really about the parents.

GUTFELD: You know, when you see all this stuff happening in restaurants, it's not young kids doing it. It's parents. It's adults.

KENNEDY: Yes, it's middle to high school.

GUTFELD: Drunks.

KENNEDY: And they do -- you know what they do at Chipotle which I do know?

WATTERS: What?

KENNEDY: They're -- well, first of all, they're smoking e-cigarettes like right on the -- they don't pay for drinks and they go and they get like lemonade and coke and they don't pay for it.

WATTERS: Yes, the money is with the alcohol. I'm with you on that. But I don't care about smoking e-cigarettes if that's next to me. They're throwing fries at employees.

GUTFELD: Oh, that's wrong.

WATTERS: You can't do that. That's too much, especially those big wedge-cut fries. Those things can hurt.

FORD JR: You're talking about (INAUDIBLE)?

KENNEDY: It's not the steakhouse.

WATTERS: Yes. You get like a curly fry to the eye.

KENNEDY: Oh, yes, that could -- you'd be a pirate by next week.

WATTERS: Yes.

PERINO: You know, it's like sometimes you go to a restaurant and let's just say that there's a bunch of kids at a table and then like the floor is a mess, like, everything is a mess, I always feel so bad.

KENNEDY: That's why toddlers and teenagers are the exact same. That is such a brilliant observation. Because when you take a toddler to a restaurant -- that's why dogs love tiny kids because there's food everywhere.

PERINO: Yes, free food.

KENNEDY: It's the same with teenagers.

GUTFELD: Yes. Would you be OK with strangers hitting your kids? I've always wondered that because I don't have kids.

WATTERS: If you come near Jesse Jr., I'll wallop you with this.

GUTFELD: No, I'm just saying, like, could a waiter or if somebody just walk up and whack them on the side --

PERINO: I don't think so.

GUTFELD: Knock it off. Whack them on the side of the head. That's why I'm not a parent.

WATTERS: No, that's my job.

KENNEDY: It's the second time you've encouraged violence on the show.

WATTERS: Yes.

FORD JR: Book him.

KENNEDY: Fentanyl -- felony, I mean.

GUTFELD: Felony.

KENNEDY: "ONE MORE THING" is up next.

GUTFELD: It's a felony.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what I mean? Maybe it lasted for two minutes and he was like, I got to get out of here. This is crazy.

PERINO: "ONE MORE THING." Greg.

GUTFELD: All right, we haven't done this in a while. So, let's do it, finger pointing man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Robots are great. Robots are great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: You know, robots are great, but sometimes I don't think they're really robots. Check out this Boston Dynamics. Their robot dog was out at the University of Missouri game. Tigers is facing off the Volunteers, like you care. But everybody -- isn't this clever? It's cute, but it's not really a robot if someone is controlling it. And I've always felt that Boston Dynamics is selling us a bill of goods.

KENNEDY: Is that robot twerking?

GUTFELD: Yes, it's actually twerking. It's twerking. And by the way, it is --

WATTERS: Oh, running man.

GUTFELD: It's doing the running man.

PERINO: Running robot.

GUTFELD: Yes, there you go.

PERINO: It's pretty good.

GUTFELD: Anyway, I don't know if this is actually a robot -- counts as a robot, but I do want one.

PERINO: Robots are great.

GUTFELD: They don't leave a lot of poop.

PERINO: Jesse.

GUTFELD: Just little batteries.

WATTERS: That was the most sports Gutfeld watched all weekend right there.

GUTFELD: That's absolutely right. I didn't even know there was sports.

WATTERS: Emma's grandparents Bob and Nancy Kenny, I just want to wish them a happy 65th wedding anniversary. That's right, 65 years of marriage. They were married September 29, 1956. They've got the whole family together to celebrate. They watched the Rutgers game. That's where they met, at Rutgers.

And Rutgers got slaughtered. I think they lost by maybe five touchdowns so terrible game but great day. Nan and Pop, congratulations.

PERINO: Great anniversary indeed. Kennedy.

KENNEDY: We love you, guys. No matter where you are, I know you're hungry right about now. Every October 4th for the last 12 years, it is National Taco Day. And today is no different. Taco Dumbo supplied this massive cornucopia we have on the table, tacos of every stripe. So, if you are hankering, go ahead and go to -- Taco Bell is giving out free tacos today. Del Taco, the chain that started it all, go hit them up if you're in Southern California. And --

PERINO: What about Taco John?

KENNEDY: The Taco John is great. Wherever your favorite taqueria is, whether it's local or national --

GUTFELD: This is Taco Dumbo.

KENNEDY: Yes, Taco Dumbo right around the corner.

GUTFELD: Which is in Dumbo.

PERINO: It is?

WATTERS: Succulent.

KENNEDY: And there's also a Succulent Taco around the corner from where we work here. And we are big fans. Happy National Tacos Day!

PERINO: Are you making tacos tonight.

KENNEDY: It's Monday. I usually like to make them on taco Tuesday.

PERINO: Tuesday. I got it. I got it. Well then you got tacos for two days in a row and who wouldn't want that indeed. All right, well you all thought that the GOAT was in New England last night. It turns out all the goats were in Atlanta.

Kroger, the grocery store, they hired all these goats to come to eat weeds at the supermarket, but they got away. And then they were like running all over Atlanta and they were very hard to corral. They grazed their way through the city and had a great time. So, those are the real goats. Harold?

FORD JR: That's a great picture, but the real GOAT was in Boston last night. The firefighters and first responders have so much pressure on him to not only do the right thing and keep us safe and put fires out but here's a firefighter in billings Montana who is -- an accident was being cleared, decided to reach a little girl on the side, Ryan Benton, the firefighter.

The Billings of firefighters put it up on Instagram account and went viral. The little girl who was part of the accident and found her way there on the side. The books are donated to the Billings Fire Department. They do this - - they do this with kids, firefighters do. So, God bless Ryan Benton and god bless that little girl.

WATTERS: Can I -- can I put something out there?

GUTFELD: Your book. You want your book to be read?

WATTERS: No, no, no, no, no. It's not about the book. I think they need to lower the decibel level of the fire engine. It is a little too loud. Does it have to be that loud?

GUTFELD: No, you are the real victim. You are the real victim.

WATTERS: I know the point of the siren is to, you know, alert people, get out of the way, all that stuff --

KENNEDY: The private ambulances are the worst.

PERINO: You know, I agree.

WATTERS: It's so loud it is -- it is painful.

KENNEDY: Private ambulances are awful.

GUTFELD: Imagine the screams of the patients suffering inside, Jesse.

WATTERS: You do agree with me though.

FORD JR: The New York Fire Department is watching. If Jesse ever calls, just don't --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Just like from a ten to 9.5.

WATTERS: Yes. That's all we want.

PERINO: That's all he's asking for.

GUTFELD: We need to study this.

PERINO: All right, Great Monday, everybody. That's it for us. "SPECIAL REPORT" is up next. Hey, Bret.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: They are pretty loud. I mean, you can give him that.

WATTERS: Thank you. Thank you.

BAIER: Thank you all.

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