'The Five' on Cuomo's resignation, COVID vaccine

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'The Five' criticize Cuomo's resignation statement

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said that he didn't realize the 'lines were redrawn' during his resignation; reaction from 'The Five'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 10, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello, everyone. I am Dana Perino along with Katie Pavlich, Jessica Tarlov, Will Cain and Greg Gutfeld. Did you notice his hair? It is 5:00 in New York City. This is THE FIVE.

It is over for New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, but it's not the end of his many problems. The disgraced Democrat resigning today after a damning report that found he had sexually harassed nearly a dozen women. Cuomo saying he'll step aside 14 days from now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW CUOMO, GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: I think that given the circumstances, the best way I can help now is if I step aside and let government get back to governing. And therefore that's what I'll do because I work for you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: The governor also partially apologizing but remains defiant and is insisting he did nothing wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: The report said I sexually harassed 11 women. That was the headline people heard and saw and reacted to. The reaction was outrage, it should have been. However, it was also false. Don't get me wrong. This is not to say that there are not 11 women who I truly offended, there are. I thought a hug and putting my arm around a staff person while taking a picture was friendly, but she found it to be too forward. I kissed a woman on the cheek at a wedding, and I thought I was being nice, but she felt it was too aggressive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Yes. He said all that. Cuomo could also face trouble in other areas. He's facing investigations into his handling of the nursing home scandal and his pandemic book that you'll remember, plus prosecutors across New York are pursuing potential criminal investigations into sexual harassment allegations.

Lots to cover here This is one of my most frustrating parts, Katie, as when he said I didn't know the lines had been redrawn. He signed new laws into place that all -- which required everybody that is a New York State employee, you have to sit through these sexual-harassment videos every single year on top of the ones from the city, he signed them and he didn't even go to his own sexual harassment training. He sent somebody in his stead.

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. And that's part of what the attorney general, Leticia James, said when she announced this report. She said he violated not only the law, but federal and state, but also the -- his office's own policies which, you know, everybody has to go through this. He clearly thinks that he is above the law and above his own rules.

He's not sorry for any of it, clearly. The way his sick and twisted language today where he talked about, well, I'm going to help you and the state by stepping aside and I actually didn't really do anything that wrong, and it's the women who are really overreacting here with their accusations against me.

And then when he talked about how government operating properly is a matter of life and death, I thought that was a really sick twist on the other issue that he is facing, which is the nursing home problem. But I do think that Democrats in New York actually get off the hook here because they don't have to follow through with an impeachment and holding one -- a person in their party accountable.

And I think President Joe Biden also gets a pass because he can say well, they called on him to resign, he has done so, but let's not forget, that the DOJ dropped the civil rights investigation into nursing homes and they aren't launching a civil rights investigation into his office for sexual harassment and discrimination, which they absolutely could do in this case. So, I think that Democrats at the top are really getting a pass and Andrew Cuomo is clearly not responsible for (inaudible).

PERINO: To Katie's point, let's listen to President Biden. This is his short comment today on the matter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I respect the governor's decision and I respect the decision he made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Which is the same thing. He didn't say he respects him, Greg, which might have been a step too far.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: Oh, it's fantastic. That was just recursive loop. You know, the narrative, too, is like, oh, this is such a -- the rise and fall of this character, this -- this -- this big -- larger-than-life, and what a difference a year makes with all the self-inflicted wounds.

But none of us here put him on a pedestal, right? I mean, we all knew what he was and, you know, (inaudible) was right there when this -- all this stuff kicked off. And honestly, we never really thought that much of him as this was happening.

But it was everybody else. It was the CNN's and "The View's" and the late night crapfest that were creating this myth out of this creep. And what happened was -- maybe he saw it coming, but when you -- when the press creates this monster, the flaws become even more visible, right? People started looking at stuff.

As for the, you know, the nursing home stuff, you know, a lot of political leaders stand to gain from his destruction because they did the same thing, right? I mean, there were a lot of Democrat governors who did the same thing with nursing homes and that may be they were hoping that this would be a way to get -- to deal with that without them having to deal with it.

But he reminds me of those contest where everybody puts their hand on a car and the last person that, you know, survives wins the car. He thought he could outlast everybody, you know. It's like that last dance from "Happy Days." Remember the long -- the dance contest with Fonzie?

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: He thought he could outlast, but nope, didn't happen. He went -- what's the going away party going to be like? He's got two weeks left. No hugging.

PERINO: Yes. What can you do in two weeks?

GUTFELD: No hugging. And is Chris Cuomo going to do the one on one interview?

PERINO: He's on vacation this week in case you haven't --

GUTFELD: But he'll be back in two weeks.

PERINO: Yes, exactly he will, and continues to advise his brother. The other thing he said, Jessica, is that there are generational and cultural shifts that I didn't fully appreciate. Really? Because I tend to remember like him going after all sorts of Republicans on these very issues.

JESSICA TARLOV, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Absolutely. And he has three millennial daughters.

PERINO: Yes.

TARLOV: Which was a cornerstone of kind of the final quarter of the speech which was, you know, taking us back to how well the Cuomo's know New York and no one can deny that, right. This is a four-decade dynasty that we're looking at crumbling here. And he talked about how painful it was to watch the coverage of what's going on sitting there with his three daughters, his twins are 26 and then I think the other one is 24, may be a year older than that.

And that's (inaudible) and they were also centerpieces of the early COVID coverage.

PERINO: Yes.

TARLOV: You know, like meatballs Sundays that he had one of their boyfriends quarantining with him. And he definitely tried to regain some of that hero status. But as someone watching this, you know, from start to finish, I was particularly bothered by the lawyer who came out first and went after these women to some degree.

And I understand that there are things you need to do as you prepare for a potential criminal lawsuit that's coming down the way, but that's not good and that's not in the spirit of what's going on here and understanding the gravity of what you've done.

And I wish that someone who gets caught in one of these, and we know that people of all political persuasions have been massive violators, why don't you say that this has been a problem for generations and thank god were being held to account, not like times has changed and that's wrong. Say it was wrong in the 50s, it was wrong in the 60s, even -- may be my dad was wrong. I'm not accusing Mayor Cuomo of anything, but --

PERINO: No, no, no. So the first lieutenant -- the first woman to be a New York governor will happen. Her name is Kathy Holchul. We'll see how that goes for her. She's got to weeks to prepare. Apparently, she calls herself an independent Democrat. We'll see.

Okay, but, Will, hubris always exudes itself before the fall.

WILL CAIN, FOX NEWS HOST: Hubris, yes.

PERINO: And this guy was basically shameful if you think about how he reacted that first day and remember that video and trying to suggest that anything that he had did was just like when Barack Obama or George W. Bush hugged hurricane victims. It's actually quite sick.

CAIN: Yes. I think the hubris leads to the fall. You know, there was a previous New York governor who also went down under his own sexual, in this case, prostitution scandal and I believe he referred to himself as Icarus in the documentary that came out afterwards, that he flew just a little bit too close to the sun.

GUTFELD: With socks on.

CAIN: I'm talking about Eliot Spitzer -- with socks on. You know, I think it's important to put this into context because you said he took partial responsibility and you're right, it's partial accountability. I noticed the same thing that Katie did, which is he used that language, the governing is a matter of life and death.

Well, there is still is the matter of life and death and him placing these individuals into the nursing homes.

GUTFELD: Right.

CAIN: And until there's accountability for that issue, this one quite honestly, is a distraction. This is important, but don't let it be the end of the story. And it's not the end of the story for New York. So, Greg, you brought up other governors across this country and you referenced the "Hands on a Hardbody," by the way.

GUTFELD: Yes.

CAIN: My movie reference would be "Charlie Wilson's War" because you remember the speech that Philip Seymour Hoffman gave about is this better for Afghanistan. And the answer is always we'll see. We'll see what comes next.

Leticia James, make no mistake, had a political interest in Governor Andrew Cuomo's fall. Many Democratic politicians had an interest Cuomo going down. And we will see what comes next after Governor Cuomo because the truth is, he is one of the least liberal politicians --

GUTFELD: Right.

PAVLICH: Yes.

CAIN: -- in the state of New York.

GUTFELD: Frightening.

PAVLICH: That is terrifying.

PERINO: So, anyway, up next, new COVID mandates dividing America. President Biden blast Florida governor, Ron DeSantis for resisting mask mandates. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAIN: America is being ripped apart by this new battle over COVID mandates. "The Wall Street Journal" pointing out how vaccination status has Americans picking sides with people losing friends and even family over the issue. And with more than one-third of American kids heading back to school this week, the battle over masks is heating up big time. Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, putting his foot down and banning mask mandates in schools, and even threatening to withdraw salaries of officials who enact them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON DESANTIS, GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA: Ultimately, my view is it's a parent's decision. If you believe in the masking during the school, you're free to do it. No one is saying you can't do it. But if you're somebody that is concerned about that that thinks that may not be the right thing for your child, then I think you should have the right to make that ultimate decision. I don't think government should override that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAIN: President Biden directly lashing out at the Florida governor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I'm told that government should get out of the way, and I find it interesting that some of the very people are saying that who will hold government positions are people who are threatening that if a school teacher asks a student if they've been vaccinated or if a principal says that everyone in my school should wear a mask or the school board votes for it, that governor will nullify that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAIN: So whose freedom of choice are we protecting? Those decisions of teachers unions or of America's children and parents and families who are making those decisions? Greg, we're drawing our lines, our battle lines. We're going back into tribes. This time it's over vaccines.

GUTFELD: Yes.

CAIN: I kid you not, I was walking in the park the other day and I heard, just overheard a lady go, it's these unvaccinated people.

GUTFELD: Yes. It's the -- the thing that -- what DeSantis is trying to do is break out of the two-idea prison, right? That two-idea prison is either you're with us or you're a murder. And what he's saying is, as a parent, you can make the decision and blah, blah, blah.

But the idea that you can bully and mock somebody to do something reveals that you actually aren't interested in compliance. It just actually feels good to do that. And if you think that the question over vaccination and non-vaccination is somehow a marker of I.Q., it's not.

You can go across the board, brilliant people and stupid people are on the same side. So the only way to discuss, let's say the vaccine, is to find a common ground, some place where you all agree. So I'm having this discussion a lot with my wife because she's not vaccinated, so I made a chart.

This is my little chart, okay. I compared -- I compared getting COVID to getting vaccinated. On the short term, right, getting COVID is bad, everybody knows that. It feels bad unless you're super healthy and young. Long-term complications, the long haul COVID, long term, bad. Then you go over to getting vaccinated. Short term, good. We find out that the vaccine reduces risk, reduces symptoms, and it's well-tolerated like most vaccines are.

The only question mark is there in the long term vaccination. So out of the four boxes, three are in the vaccine's favor, which puts me logically to think that I'm getting the vaccine. However, I cannot deny the fact that people look and they go, that one box is the box that bothers me the most.

And therefore I can argue coherently that that's why I'm not getting the vax. I would say that you know the long-term effects of COVID and it's bad, you should govern by that and not by the question mark. But you could see in this chart that you have a shared turf and not everybody that you disagree with is an idiot. We need to breakout of this prison of two ideas because this is the problem right now, is that fourth box.

CAIN: Katie, what do you think of Greg's boxes?

PAVLICH: I think Greg should -- would be a wonderful professor in your next retirement (inaudible).

GITFELD: I want to take Fauci's job. I think I'm taller.

PAVLICH: Well that would be great.

PERINO: And I'm going to be (inaudible).

PAVLICH: I think we'd be better off. I think we're better off for that.

PERINO: I think Greg and I are taking this thing over.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PAVLICH: I'm glad that Governor Ron DeSantis is focusing on the fact that the media is reporting that he is banning masks. He is not banning masks. He is banning mandates and allowing people to make their own decisions.

It's important to remember how we got to this latest round of panic over masks because the CDC just re-implemented masking and the CDC director came out and said we are re-implementing masking because vaccinated people are infecting vaccinated people and therefore vaccinated people need to wear masks indoors.

That's what she said and that's why they, you know, drew back taking off the mask from what, late June in Washington, D.C. where they have a mask mandates. This rolling 70 average for deaths from COVID is zero. And this is where we are. And it's pitting people against each other.

I'm on the side of look personal choice, risk assessment. If you want the vaccine, go get the vaccine. If you have natural immunity, great. If you don't want the vaccine for all of the reasons that Greg outlined in the yellow box with a question mark, then fine. And what we've been told from the CDC about vaccine is they protect you from unvaccinated people.

And so, this idea now that we are pitting people against each other, the unvaccinated versus the vaccinated, you can't go to work, that's exactly what China would love us to be doing, is turning on each other (inaudible) back to like Americans.

CAIN: What do you think, Jessica?

TARLOV: I think it is the unvaccinated -- I think the lady in the park would probably be a good friend of mine.

GUTFELD: At least you're honest.

TARLOV: That's what I'm here for. There are -- I think that Biden was right to point out that you do have a government overlord move here because these principles and these local school boards, people are being elected to those and they are making those decisions.

I was listening to the Dallas school administrator, Dallas and Austin are the districts that are going to be keeping the mask mandates. They're not listening to Governor Abbott about it. And she was saying this is what we have decided as best to keep our children safe and to keep our teachers safe.

And I wanted to bring up because everybody loves hypocrisy so much. I mean, Governor Abbott at the same time that he is banning these mask mandates is now pleading for out-of-state assistance. They need more staff to get to the hospitals in Texas because of the surge in COVID cases.

PAVLICH: Jessica, they're dumping COVID positive illegal immigrants into Texas and then blaming Governor Abbott for the increase.

TARLOV: I cannot -- this is not a national problem because of who is streaming across the border. It just isn't. There was a child who could not get into the ICU in Houston, had to be airlifted to a different hospital because they are so packed with COVID patients. And Governor Abbott is standing there, don't mask up. No vaccine mandate. Ted Cruz, Cancun Cruz, saying the same thing while they are begging other states for help. That is absurd.

CAIN: Dana, we don't have much time, but so, the only criticism I would have of Greg's boxes is the theme that you present yesterday, which is nuance. There are people that are immunocompromised, people that have natural antibodies.

GUTFELD: Of course, yes.

CAIN: There's a lot of people making decisions for various reasons when it comes to vaccine, but more nuanced, we don't know the effect of masks. We haven't even studied it. And Dr. Fauci has basically said, we're hopeful. It's all positive (ph).

PERINO: Also, remember last week, Dr. Osterholm, or maybe it's the week before last, said they don't work. And so, there's not enough studies on that as well. I think that on the communications front, when Greg and I take it over, one of the things that I want to do and to Greg, the new Dr. Fauci, to say is that I think we made a mistake as a country when the vaccines were being finalized because as President Trump was right to push forward with Operation Warp Speed, and we were talking about get this done, get it done by the end of the year, we're going to put -- and it made it sound like this is brand-new.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: It's like a miracle, like -- it just came out -- it's not -- that's not true. This technology has been underway for 25 years.

TARLOV: Yes.

PERINO: They were able to take this technology which has helped so many different diseases and get the COVID strain and be like, you know what, if we do this will tweak. You know what, it works. Then, the wait was, was to get the study of, was it 500,000 people, the largest public health study ever done.

They did 500,000 people and then the FDA gave the emergency use and then you started, under President Trump right before President Biden took over, to get the things. So, I think that from the beginning, trying to suggest that this was a miracle vaccine was a mistake.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: I understand why we did it. We were in a race and we were better than China and we were going to show the Chinese exactly what was going to happen. That is a problem I -- I know we don't have lots of time, but I want to say this as well. I don't understand what President Biden's ultimate goal is.

Is it to get more people vaccinated? Yes. And I am concerned about in increasing variants. I don't want to keep going through this. And the more people that are vaccinated means that the less this virus has to be able to figure things out because guess what, the virus, it's smarter than we are.

CAIN: Yes.

PERINO: So, we have to be better on that, but (inaudible) just say this. President Biden trying to pit Governor Asa Hutchinson of -- the governor of Arkansas who has said I wish I hadn't signed that anti-mask mandate bill, and try to pit him against Governor Ron DeSantis is not going to get a single person, additional person vaccinated.

GUTFELD: True.

PERINO: You could just say I appreciate Governor Hutchinson, thank you. And not try to say -- what did he say? He said some Republican governors are getting it right. That kind of condescension is not helping. Governor Hutchison is doing what he thinks is right as a governor. Governor DeSantis is doing that as well. You don't need to make it worse.

CAIN: It's almost as though the point isn't to help everyone make the healthiest decision for themselves. The point isn't even to get one vaccinated. The point is to divide us once again. That seems to be the underlying motivation with every issue.

Coming up, Tucker Carlson has a brand new book out today about the media and he joins us, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Only a sucker wouldn't like Tucker. Cable news powerhouse Tucker Carlson's brand-new book is out today on the state of the media. It's called "The Long Slide: Thirty Years in American Journalism." You can get it in person wherever books are sold or buy it on tuckercarlson.com. He has that, where you can also get a signed copy. Tucker joins us right now to talk about it. Hi, Tucker. How are you doing?

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: Couldn't be better, Greg Gutfeld.

GUTFELD: Excellent. Excellent. I was always a fan of your writing before I even knew you and one thing I learned from you once is that you don't like to write.

CARLSON: Well, nobody likes to write, you know. You have to be defective to like to write. Sit and create something out of nothing in front of blank terminal.

GUTFELD: Yes.

CARLSON: It looks like hell.

GUTFELD: Yes.

CARLSON: But it's reward -- as you know, I mean, you started as a writer too, you still are. It's deeply rewarding. I'm glad I've don't it. I don't want to do too much more if I can help it.

GUTFELD: Yes. But these are all -- these are essays that have been refined in everything, so it's -- aside from the long introduction in which you mention how much you like Al Sharpton, these are all older stories, correct?

CARLSON: Well, yes, but they are framed by a reported piece I did, which is the beginning of the book on Simon & Schuster which published it.

GUTFELD: Yes.

CARLSON: Which is one of the biggest publishers in the world and long defender of the freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, the free flow of ideas, dissent, the ability to disagree which has become one of the leading forces of censorship in the country, killing books because the Democratic Party doesn't like the book.

So, to write the introduction, to write this chapter, I interviewed the head of the company, Jonathan Karp, and the new head of Simon & Schuster of the in print who was hired after the George Floyd riots, with literally not one day of experience in the publishing business.

And I asked them, wait a second, you're one of the biggest publishers in the world, how did you get to be censored? How did this happen? And we had this kind of amazing conversation. I thought they were pretty honest about their role in it. It was nauseating, if I'm going to be totally blunt with you, but it was certainly informative.

GUTFELD: Yes, Dana.

PERINO: Well, I'm so Tucker I first came to know you when you were writing these longer magazine pieces in the -- well, let's say, in the late 90s, right, so we can we can age ourselves a little bit.

CARLSON: Many years ago.

PERINO: And I loved reading your work. And I know that, that you -- the reporting part of it (AUDIO GAP) doing and getting to know people is also a really important thing. But I still think -- I think that you need to -- it's important for young people to learn how to write. What's the most important thing people can do today? Like if you're a young person and you want to be a writer, and you want to be like Tucker Carlson, how do you get those skills? What's the best way to learn how to write like this?

CARLSON: Well, there are many skills actually. It's a trade, not a profession. First, don't go to journalism school. You'll meet the worse people in America and will make you dumber. Second, learn how to write clear English. We have the, you know, the biggest language in human history. There are more ways to describe things in English than in any other language.

You've got all these words. Learn how to use them. Learn grammar and learn how to write a clear declarative sentence, subject-verb, subject-verb, repeat after me. Take out the adjectives. Adverbs are your enemy. Avoid them. Read politics in the English language by George Orwell and just learn to write clearly. That's the whole trick right there. It's not hard. And it's really good.

PERINO: Do you miss it at all? I mean, do you miss those pieces at all, like, writing them? No, not writing, but the --

CARLSON: Well, I write every day. I write more now than I've ever written in my life. But I don't get out of my weird little cave to talk to other people. And I definitely miss getting on the road to faraway places and meeting people.

PERINO: I'm sorry. I don't mean to monopolize your time.

CARLSON: Yes, Dana.

PERINO: Sorry.

CARLSON: You monopolize the time. I'm going to ask a really long question now.

CAIN: Hey, Tucker, a little bit like you, but not to your extent, I spent a lot of time on what we would call the mainstream media, ESPN or CNN. I'm fascinated by the idea of the long slide. In your experience, the media seems to have changed drastically since the election of Donald Trump of the last five years. But was it always there? Do you think the attitudes that we're seeing today were always there in the media covered up or have they changed?

CARLSON: Well, there's always been -- that's such a great question. There's always been a totalitarian instinct on the right, because it's a kind of religious faith that, you know -- and so, the instinct has been, well, anyone who disagrees with me is evil. But that was kept in check by the principles of journalism and publishing which demanded open dialogue. You had to listen to the other side. You had to let the other side to talk. That's what you know, liberalism was. That's the basic enlightenment value is you have to allow your ideas to be challenged, and you get to challenge the other side's ideas.

That evaporated slowly, and then quickly, just like bankruptcy, it happened over time, and then all at once. And you sort of wake up in this totalitarian environment where no one is allowed to talk unless you're repeating a very small set of slogans. And the people in charge of the business, the editors, the publishers, the people who run TV networks, are all participating in it. It's like, if you're 52, like I am, if you're an aging American, it's totally shocking to watch it.

TARLOV: OK. So, I also loved what you said about making a quick and dirty when you're writing. I remember getting into grad school, and they said every comic could be a period.

CARLSON: Yes.

TARLOV: And I was like, oh, actually, that's true. But my question is about, you know, you've obviously interviewed a ton of fascinating people, both sides of the aisle. Who would you most like to interview again, if they would take your call?

CARLSON: Oh, gosh, that's such a great question.

TARLOV: Thank you.

CARLSON: There's so many people. I mean, honestly, I'd like to interview anybody in Democratic leadership. I'd like to interview a Democratic Congressman. No one will talk to me. No one will come on the show. You're a white supremacist.

We're not talking to you. Really? No, I'm not. I just -- I just have different ideas from you. Why are you calling me names? It's not even real. Just come on and talk to me like a normal human being. You and I talk all the time, have for a long time. We disagree. It's not that hard. It's fun but they won't come on.

TARLOV: We definitely disagree. And most of the time, it is fun. I'll talk to my people. I'll try to get you a Congressman.

PAVLICH: Well, Tucker, Katie Pavlich here. I have to admit that I went to journalism school. So, I'm sorry to disappoint you with that. But it's fascinating to me that you were a college -- your first job out of college was as a fact-checker. And I think that fact-checking has changed so much in addition to traditional journalism, so I want to get your take on that. But then I also want to know where we can buy your book because I know that you have a different strategy.

CARLSON: Well, fact-checking used to require calling people on the phone and ask them questions. Now it entails going to Wikipedia which newsflash is not a news source. Wikipedia is another form of propaganda. There's truth on it, as there always is in propaganda, but fundamentally, it's not reliable. So, that's not fact-checking. Just so you know.

The book is on tuckercarlson.com. It's available in all different kinds of places. But the book is partly about the creeping power of the tech monopolies which squelch speech and thought and freedom. And so, why not go around them? We're trying a new version of distribution here on our Web site and we'll see how it works. I hope it does. We need alternatives to what we have, I would say that day.

PAVLICH: Indeed. Well, best of luck.

CARLSON: Thanks so much.

GUTFELD: All right, Tucker, I will -- can I ask him one more question? Is there anybody that you're reading now in journalism that you really like?

CARLSON: Oh, there's so many on Substack.

GUTFELD: Right.

CARLSON: And I probably shouldn't say because some are like refugees from the left and I don't want to further discredit them by admitting I read them.

GUTFELD: Good point.

CARLSON: But there are a bunch of people -- I know you read them. I gave up my New York Times and Washington Post subscriptions because it's just garbage. It's like stupid and boring except the obits which I still like, and Dana sends them to me. But other than that, I spent my money on Substack and I'm really happy about it.

GUTFELD: There's some really interesting writers out there right now and they're all in Substack.

CARLSON: Amazing. Amazing.

GUTFELD: All right, Tucker, thank you so much. His new book, The Long Slide: 30 Years in American Journalism is on sale now. Straight ahead, reading and writing are overrated in Oregon. The state dumbing down schools in the name of racial equity.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAVLICH: Democratic Oregon Governor Kate Brown facing backlash for pushing racial equality over getting a quality education after she quietly signed a new bill that gets rid of math, reading, and writing requirements in order for high school students to graduate. The governor's office says it will help students of color, but she is being accused of dumbing down schools to appease far-left liberal.

So, Dana, I think this is a tragedy for everybody because you're lowering the standards rather than thinking kids could rise to the challenge.

PERINO: To me, it's child abuse. And as a taxpayer, I'm mad, because the return on investment is not good enough. How much money both state -- well, I don't live in Oregon, so I don't pay state taxes there. But the federal government also kicks in. Think of how much of money went for COVID relief. They spent 20 percent of this money. The rest of it is just floating out there.

So, we are basically paying kids to not actually meet standards and or pay -- I'm sorry, paying the school districts to do that. And I think our national competitiveness is at great risk. That means our national security is at risk. And what kind of life are you subjecting these people to and their parents? You think that people want to have a better life than their parents is the American dream? You dumbed-down standards this badly, and you will get exactly what you pay for. And I don't want to pay for it anymore. I'm tired of it.

PAVLICH: Well, and Will, it's not necessarily the parents who are asking for the standards to be lowered, it's these activists who pressure the mayor in not just in Oregon, in Virginia, Fairfax, Virginia, they just did this too by getting rid of AP English and AP classes because they say it was unfair. You're a dad. You think your kids should have standards for excellence?

CAIN: Absolutely. But to be clear, this is driven out of racial politics. So, this is not only a tragedy, and not only child abuse, this is flat out racist. This is the idea that Black and Brown children cannot satisfy universal standards, so we must lower them. And they suggest that somehow white supremacy. It's like the African American Museum in Washington D.C. putting out that document a year ago that said, punctuality, hard work, and objective thought are characters of white supremacy. No, these are the path to success.

And for you to suggest that Black and Brown kids cannot live up to those standards is flat-out racist. One more analogy. This is going to the doctor and them saying, we're not going to test you because you could be sick. The patient is still sick regardless of whether or not your tests come back. These kids still graduate, they will still be ignorant, they will not be able to satisfy those standards and life will punish them for that no matter you putting these tests aside.

PAVLICH: Yes, Jessica.

TARLOV: I don't like it. I think there has to be a better way. And I know that we kind of say this every block, right, as some terrible thing happens, when police officer being killed or an unarmed Black person being killed, or what's going on in these schools. And it's extremely frustrating as someone who does believe in the cause of affirmative action and thinks that children who have grown up in homes Black, White, Brown, whatever it is where they have faced systemic challenges and need a helping hand deserve that, that we can't figure out a better way.

And when I was reading about this, it said, you know, we moved to the -- we're going to move to the system for a year so that we can like, look under the hood. You have to be able to look under the hood at the same time that kids are still going to be taught at an appropriate level so that they can qualify to go on with their lives, whether that means going to an apprenticeship, going to college, going to junior college, getting a job, whatever it might be. I don't like it.

PAVLICH: But Greg, aren't -- isn't the left locking students, particularly students of color, into these prisons and giving them a lifelong sentence because parents in the inner city are trying to get the kids into charter schools so they can actually achieve these things to maybe get a scholarship to college. This kind of education ensures that none of them will even qualify.

GUTFELD: Like, it guarantees that basically the first step into a competitive life, you're already in the negative. It's like you're not -- everybody else is going to be better off than you are. And it's an assessment on this idea of equity which is not about the freedom to achieve, but to install a ceiling to achievement.

It's just like socialism everywhere. It's a crushing limit from above that says all of you will be stupid together. If you guys can't do math, and you guys can't do math, but you could do math, no, no one's doing any math. We could teach you guys math, but we just prefer all of you just be ignorant of math. But there are things you can do.

You can -- there's a guy on Twitter, Corey Angeles -- DeAngelis. If you follow me on Twitter, he's led the charge on the new trend of allowing parents to take their education dollars everywhere -- elsewhere about the public schools, and that's a really good thing, school choice obviously.

And we should be thinking about improving remote learning. I think that's the way to go, man. It's what -- it's what Peloton did to the gym.

PAVLICH: Dana, you have one final thought?

PERINO: I just want to -- I'm sorry, I just wanted to add one other thing. So, the Democrats dropped a bill yesterday to have $3.5 trillion in spending. And two of the things that are included in there are free pre-K for everybody and free community college. I'm going to tell you right now. There's no -- if people cannot pass a basic standard test to get out of high school, I do not want to pay for free community college. There should at least be some standards. And if this monstrosity passes, the Republicans at least ought to insist on those standards.

GUTFELD: That's a great point. People would -- people would love their tax dollars to go to a super tough school that makes everybody's smart for free.

PAVLICH: Exactly.

PERINO: I'd be happy to pay for it.

GUTFELD: Why -- we were spending more money per student than anywhere -- like, in the world, and we're not doing anything.

PAVLICH: Well, it's federal taxes and property taxes that you're locked into. So, it's almost like it's not even about education. They just want to take more of your money. All right, straight ahead, our tech addiction is now hurting us in new ways. Find out more up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TARLOV: America's tech addiction is so bad it's even hurting our sleep. Three and five people say they snooze much better after taking a break from their digital devices and also feel more content and free after ditching tech.

I feel like we've been talking about this since cellphones. I have enough.

PAVLICH: Yes, or computers.

TARLOV: Computer, all the screen -- all the screens.

PAVLICH: All the things. Do you go on digital devices before bed?

PAVLICH: I do. But I think this is different for every person individually. Because if you work in a space like news, for example, and you have an early morning show like Will Cain over here, or like Dana Perino, you may want to like, do one last round of information searching before you go to bed so you feel confident when you wake up that you haven't missed anything, because it would be anxiety-inducing not to do that.

PERINO: I don't read anything at all. I don't like -- I don't study.

PAVLICH: Yes. So, I think it depends on who you are, what your job is, and what your expectations are.

TARLOV: Dana, what's your tech policy?

PERINO: I do think this is obviously true. And I think -- even like we know that like the blue light messes up your brainwaves and all of these things. My husband apparently is immune to this. He can be scrolling and scrolling, looking at dog videos and like fall asleep. I mean, how do you do that?

My problem is I'm so concerned that I forgot to set my alarm, I check it 20 times.

PAVLICH: Right. I do that too.

PERINO: Do I set it? I mean, you know what it's like when you're like --

CAIN: I set three, yes, because 4:00 doesn't come naturally. But I think I'm like your husband. I can stay on it all the way up until it's time to set it down and fall asleep. And I do.

PERINO: You would say you have a clear conscience.

CAIN: I have a clear conscience but it's gross. And it's bad, what do they call it, sleep hygiene. And I don't think it's good. I think we all have a horrible addiction we have to break.

PAVLICH: But the good sleep though.

PERINO: There's a gummy for that.

TARLOV: There are gummies for everything, which was our chat during the break. Greg?

GUTFELD: I do -- I do think it's a distraction. That's why before we go too bed, I always asked for the cell phones and I take all four of them and I put them away.

TARLOV: Really?

CAIN: No.

PAVLICH: Why do you have four cell phones?

GUTFELD: That was the joke.

CAIN: I was thinking it's for the whole family.

TARLOV: I thought it was --

GUTFELD: You're staring at me and like, that's the joke. There are four people.

PAVLICH: There's four -- there's a lot of people.

PERINO: Well, I thought you -- I thought that you had two phones each.

TARLOV: Yes.

PERINO: That's what (INAUDIBLE)

GUTFELD: I should have refined it.

TARLOV: Work and personal. It actually made a lot of sense. We have to go. I know you're very sad about that. "ONE MORE THING" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Time now for "ONE MORE THING." Jessica.

TARLOV: Awesome. So, it's hard to believe that it is going to be the 20th anniversary of 9/11 in just a month. To commemorate the event and raise money for 9/11 charities, a slew of awesome comedians including Jon Stewart, Dave Chappelle, and Pete Davidson will be performing together for One Night Only. Davidson's father was in New York City firefighter who lost his life on 9/11 trying to save others.

As a native New Yorker who was evacuated from my home for weeks after the attacks, this is a cause near and dear to me. I also just lost my father to a 9/11 related cancer. The attack lives on for so many of us. If you're going to be in New York City, it's a great show to go out to. You can also just donate if you want to help families, first responders, all the people.

PERINO: Yes. And you know, it's really important, Jessica, that we recognize that your dad, amazing guy, you're amazing, and he was so proud of you.

TARLOV: Also crying on national TV.

PERINO: You know what, there's a first time for everything.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: We adore you. And it's also important to remember that there were a lot of people who were evacuated in addition to the first responders who have suffered.

TARLOV: Totally.

PERINO: And they are still doing that. So, we have to pay attention.

TARLOV: Thank you.

PERINO: And thank you for bringing that event to my attention. I didn't know about it.

TARLOV: We can go down there as a table.

PAVLICH: I'll go with you.

PERINO: Great. You can get me a ticket?

TARLOV: You're vaccinated, so you're ready.

PERINO: I'm vaccinated. I can go. All right, hey, remember when I was going to have that interview with Tamyra Mensah-Stock? And then NBC said, actually no, you're not? Well, tomorrow, it's actually happening. She will be on with us. She's from Texas and loves America and made that clear at the Olympics.

Also, I have this event coming up with Brian Kilmeade. It's called Laughter, Life and the Joy of Liberty coming to you at the Paramount Theater in Asbury Park, New Jersey, September 25. You can go to briankilmeade.com or ticketmaster.com and we are going to have a great thing that night.

I have a bison that's fallen asleep but I'm not going to show it to you. Oh, I'm showing it to you. This is on the road in Wyoming but I feel like I've talked so much and I need to turn it over to Greg now.

CAIN: I mean, one in Yellowstone because that happens.

PERINO: Yes, yes, that's what it was.

CAIN: Buffalo, bison, traffic jams.

PERINO: Your turn.

GUTFELD: Let's do one of these.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Animals are great. Animals are great. Animals are great.

GUTFELD: Yes, that's what people need to hear. Enough with these sleeping bisons. Is that plural, bisons?

PAVLICH: No, bison.

PERINO: I think bison is plural.

GUTFELD: Bison. You know, there's nothing worse than when you pick the wrong bus. Like, you figure you're in like, a hurry and you get the -- you get the -- you get the local like this poor chap here. She thought she was getting a quick ride -- quick ride to work. And then it's like, oh crap, I got the wrong one. This one is going to be stuck in traffic. I can't get in the HOV lane. And this dude is just like, I'm eating, shut up.

PERINO: Is that the same turtle who was getting that car washes.

GUTFELD: I found a dead turtle on my lawn. Yes, it was a large turtle.

PERINO: Oh, what did you do?

GUTFELD: I kicked it.

PERINO: Oh, my.

CAIN: It's turtle stories in two days for you. Let's see if you can make it three tomorrow.

PERINO: We're going to try trifecta. Will, you're next.

CAIN: Speaking of animals are great, I need to get a little intro on this. I told you about noodling yesterday.

TARLOV: Yes.

CAIN: Sticking your arm and catch the catfish with your hand. Well, apparently during the pandemic, people have been at home and do a little more fishing if they're not at work. So, record is being set in North Carolina. First of all, that is a 26-pound channel cat, not noodled, caught on rod and reel by Tanner Rudolph. And check out what Rocky Baker brought in. This is a 127-pound blue cat and it's a big old catfish.

PAVLICH: Wow, that's huge.

PERINO: And then, would you eat that?

CAIN: Catfish is awesome, Dana. you've had catfish for sure, right?

PERINO: No, I'm just asking like, do you typically like eat big fish?

CAIN: I was supposed to say, I don't know.

PERINO: Or do you mount it?

CAIN: Do they size out of tastiness?

PAVLICH: You can feed a whole potluck with that thing.

PERINO: I don't know. I obviously need to learn a lot about this. Katie, you're next.

PAVLICH: I think you can feed a lot of people with that catfish I think. OK, look at this amazing walrus named Wally. This is why you don't go out on a boat because it's really hard to get back in if you have a life jacket on. Wally, this is him off the coast of Southern Ireland. He spends his time between Ireland, Britain, France, and Spain. One time he fell asleep on an iceberg and floated it back to Ireland. So --

CAIN: He got in. He didn't flip the boat.

PAVLICH: Wally the Walrus, good job.

PERINO: It's so good. All right, that is it for us. "SPECIAL REPORT" is up next. Hey, Bret.

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