'The Five' on Blinken's 'heated' hearing, AOC attending the Met Gala

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'The Five' reacts to Hollywood elites attending maskless gala

'The Five' gives their take on AOC's dress choice for the Hollywood Gala

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 14, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DABA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Katie Pavlich, Jessica Tarlov, Jesse Watters and Bryan Kilmeade. It's 5:00 in New York City. This is "The Five."

Another bruising day before Congress for Secretary of State Antony Blinken. A Senate panel grilling him for answers about the botched withdrawal from Afghanistan because so far the Biden administration has refused to say it did anything wrong, Republicans not mincing words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): You own this. The Biden administration caused this disaster.

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): This is a complete debacle.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): We had every reason to believe and to plan for the rapid collapse of the Afghan military and the Afghan government.

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): President Biden has described the evacuation from Afghanistan as an extraordinary success. This has to be the lie of the 21st century.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: And things got really heated when Senator Ted Cruz pressed Blinken on whether U.S. officials gave the Taliban a list of names of American citizens during the chaotic evacuation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: Did the State Department give the Taliban a list or multiple lists of Americans and/or Afghans that we wanted out?

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Those reports and the idea that we would do anything to endanger our citizens or anyone else at a time when we're trying to save their lives is flat-out wrong.

In limited instances where we were seeking to get a bus or a group of people through a check point, we gave a manifest to the people at the check point to demonstrate that those people were expected --

CRUZ: Roughly how many names were on the list you gave?

BLINKEN: Doesn't matter because they all --

CRUZ: Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands. Give us some order of magnitude.

BLINKEN: This happened in a handful of situations were --

CRUZ: Dozens? So is it your testimony it wasn't hundreds? I want to understand, did you give them thousands of names?

BLINKEN: No, we did not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: And on and on it went. Jesse, one of the things Senator Ron Johnson said to Blinken is that there's some frustration that it feels that the administration is detached from the situation.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: So, he did an okay job. Cruz did much better, but the Republicans in general are focused way too much on sound bites that they can push out to donors and on social media. This hearing needs to be about establishing a pattern of facts, a timeline, and getting direct testimony on the record.

When did you know and -- what did you know and when did you know it? And then you can present that evidence to the American people and that's how you get to the truth and accountability. Kabul did not fall in 11 days, Dana. That is a lie. It took months for the Afghan army to desert and surrender.

The Taliban takeover came after three months. Biden was briefed by the intelligence agencies, State Department cables went out, embassy cables went out. Biden knew in July that the Taliban was taking over because he got on the phone call with the Afghan president and said lie for me. Make sure it looks better on the ground so I get help politically and then maybe I'll give you a little more air support.

So the lies cost lives, and we need to know the facts. So, Al Qaeda's back in Afghanistan and we have dead Marines and we have a huge technology transfer to the Chinese military, which we're going to have to deal with in the Pacific. And now we're importing all these child brides.

We're bringing in thousands of Afghan men who married 12 years old, Cruz got into that. Where are these people going to live, Dana? In America we call them child molesters. They're not going to live in Antony Blinken's neighborhood. So what are we going to do with them?

So, if this was a Republican president, he'd already have impeachment hearings. They -- the Democrats go after these hearings like litigators doing a homicide trial. Republicans, you act like it's a debate club. No. We want answers, we deserve answers and we're not going to get it if you beat around the bush.

PERINO: Jessica, many times these hearings do feel performative not productive. I think on the House side they had three to five minutes. In the Senate side they have seven so there's benefits I guess to being a senator. But there was something from Senator Bob Menendez in terms of his frustration as the oversight chairman. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-NJ): The execution of the U.S. withdrawal was clearly and fatally flawed. This committee expects to receive a full explanation of the administration's decisions on Afghanistan since coming into office last January. There has to be accountability.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: I want to get your take on something. So, Lloyd Austin would not testify today. His the Secretary of Defense. They had said that, well, he's going to be testifying in front of another committee later this month. There's some frustration from people who follow this that this is just being done in a piecemeal way and they would like to have a commission like the 9/11 commission or something. Is that something you think Democrats would be willing to do?

JESSICA TARLOV, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I actually do think it's something Democrats would be willing to do. I mean, Bob Menendez is a strong Biden supporter. This is just like any Democrat. This is someone from the get go. Backed Biden -- wanted to back Biden in 2016 when Hillary ended up being the nominee. And his words were as forceful as Ted Cruz's words or Ron Johnson words.

And yesterday we saw it from key figures in the Democratic House like Karen Bass. And I think that it is going to continue. I do think on an optics level it made a big difference that Secretary Blinken was in person today.

PERINO: Absolutely.

TARLOV: Not that it was his fault for not going yesterday, were the -- was the rules that you could Zoom in. There was even the congressman who was in his closet who did it, but you should be there. This is a big deal. It will be as Leon Panetta said it. A huge moment in his time as Secretary of State, for better or for worse, and I did like the dynamic better in person. It needs to be treated with respect especially since we lost American lives, 13, and 18 wounded.

But it felt like a bipartisan shellacking to me. It felt like yesterday was longer time limits. And I think that that's something that the Biden administration is prepared for. They know what the polling looks like on this and they're going to show up and they're going to take it.

PERINO: Katie, one of the things that frustrated some of the people that are working behind the scenes, these private groups working with veterans who are trying to get their interpreters and their families out, was when Antony Blinken said, every one of the people, and I guess he was talking about the Americans that are left behind and the green card holders, has been assigned a case worker.

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Right.

PERINO: A case manager and they have a team of case managers and one of the young women I talked to said -- she said that can't be true. She said if it is true then all these messages I'm getting are just people who absolutely can't get anybody to return their calls at the State Department.

PAVLICH: Well, the State Department has now tried to kind of take credit for these private group and organizations that have been able to get people out when the government has failed to do so. And when the Secretary of State was asked if the State Department, you know, didn't allow certain flights to take off, if they were denying people access to the airport, the answer from the Secretary of State was no, when we know from talking to a number of people and from sourcing that they were denying flights taking off.

They were denying people coming into the airport and they were telling people to come to the airport when they couldn't get there because the Taliban wasn't letting them through, for weeks on end. The bipartisan nature of this I thought was interesting, and based on the idea that when you listen to each of them speak today and this happened a lot yesterday in the House, every single senator and congressman has a story linked to trying to getting somebody out of Afghanistan.

And it is, you know, the job of congressional offices and offices in the Senate to help get people home, but it really is the State Department's job. And for the administration up to this point to keep saying that this was a successful airlift, it was a successful evacuation, when you have senators and congressmen still getting phone calls from Americans and SIVs who are stuck in Afghanistan that really makes it a lot closer to each of their offices and the work that they're doing.

PERINO: I just want to tell you one other piece of sound from Senator Ted Cruz, if you guys could pull that up because, Brian, this is one of the questions that Americans are going to have. Oh, excuse me, it's Rand Paul. $64 billion that's possibly going to be going to the -- to Afghanistan and I'm wondering, does that pass through the Afghan government? Here's Senator Rand Paul.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): This week, you've now released $64 million in aid to Afghanistan. Don't we have some prohibition against giving aid and comfort to the enemy? Do we really -- are we really naive enough to believe that we're just going to keep sending charity to Afghanistan and they're not going to interrupt it. I think that's a foolish notion. Can you pledge today without equivocation that the Biden administration will not release any of this money to the Taliban?

BLINKEN: Absent the Taliban, making good on the commitments and expectations of the international community that I've outlined previously. That's correct.

PAUL: Maybe we could deduct a fee for the weapons they took.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Brian, give your thoughts on that or anything else.

BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes, $64 million is part of the $1.2 billion that we promised for international aid. It turns out that 18 million Afghans depend on the government to live for their food and clothing. So, congratulations Taliban. You got a country to run, all right. Not just people to behead. You actually got to do other stuff, so they want some aid.

And they also say thank you very much but can we have more. So they want more. I don't see why we give them anything but you go ahead, you want more. So, I want you to see -- the big thing was over the last few days is it's Trump's fault. It was Trump's deal, we had no choice.

So the guy that's professionally and undoing everything President Trump does, and I think Joe Biden takes great pride in it, everything Donald Trump does, he undoes. When it comes to Taliban deal, well, this is iron clad. This is the deal that Trump had. Its six pages. My health club contract is harder to get out of than this.

It is as generic as it gets. Anyone can get out of this. And you almost went to law school or you did go to Syracuse thought you were at the bottom of your class. You could have handled how to get out of this agreement.

And so I texted Mike Pompeo and I said to -- where was the deal? What's the big difference?

PERINO: Name dropper.

KILMEADE: Yes. But he was -- he did have an important job. He said we would only have left once all conditions are met. We didn't plan for chaos because we wouldn't had it. We had constant deterrent. We would hit them as soon as they broke this agreement. And (inaudible) the butcher, they said to him flat out, if you break any of these, you take any of these provinces, I know where you live. We will kill you like we just killed Soleimani.

And he got that. That's why he called at the edge of Kabul and said do you want me to take it or do you want to take it? And McKenzie, General McKenzie says, why don't you take it, I'll just take the airport. Can we just honestly say that's one of the stupidest responses to the Taliban, and there's been a lot that I've ever heard in my life.

I could not have been more frustrated because not one Democrat did what Joe Lieberman did, what Senator Lugar did to President Bush, what Senator Hagel did. They questioned war decisions, they forgot about party. Nobody forgot what party they were in today on the Democratic side even though Menendez did say, well, we're going to find out about that, but there was more kissing his butt than calling him out.

TARLOV: He called it an abject failure, Brian. And in that -- in your health club thing there, does it also say we're going to release 5,000 Taliban prisoners for a thousand Afghans?

KILMEADE: There was a prisoner swap. A 5,000 to 1,000, I think it's a bad idea. Ambassador Khalilzad cut -- absolutely a bad idea. But that does not mean you can't break it, push it back and undo it because it's not in America's interest.

PAVLICH: Also, Trump isn't president anymore. Joe Biden is president.

KILMEADED: Yes. Take responsibility.

PERINO: Yes. But I mean, it's September. We're sort of deciding that? Just kidding. All right, ahead, decision today in California, Gavin Newsom fighting for his political life by making the recall election all about, guess who? Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KILMEADE: That's my ride home. It's decision day in California to determine if Governor Gavin Newsom will keep his job. The polls close just a few hours from now and Democrats are pulling out all the stops. It's unbelievable what happened the final few weeks. President Biden trying to make the recall all about Trump instead of Newsom's job performance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: All of you know in the last year I got to run against the real Donald Trump. This year, the leading Republican running for governor is the closest thing to a Trump clone that I've ever seen in your state. You either keep Gavin Newsom as your governor or you'll get Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KILMEADE: All right, that was inspiring. And Newsom continued to push race-based attacks against the leading Republican candidate Larry Elder. I'll stop now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GAVIN NEWSOM, GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA: The issue of diversity, of pluralism. The issue that define so much of our politics, that's all on the ballot tomorrow night. Racial justice is on the ballot tomorrow night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KILMEADE: Man, he's looked nervous, unsure of himself for this whole recall. He's called out the president, the vice-president, the Speaker of the House, Senator Elizabeth Warren and needed $70 million, Dana. Does that show he's nervous or is Democrats saying we're going to win big and we all want credit for it?

PERINO: I think in the -- I think at the -- maybe like five or six weeks ago, I think they were very nervous especially as Larry Elder started to pick up some steam. You know, he -- Larry Elder already has state-wide name ID. Somebody like the mayor of San Diego, Kevin Faulkner, is a very good mayor, but state-wide name ID is hard to get.

But because Larry Elder had it and he's very popular and he was talking about the issues. He didn't talk about Donald Trump or Biden or Kamala Harris. He was talking about homelessness, crime, education, and the economy. And he was worried that people in California were wanting to leave.

And when you -- anytime that I saw Gavin Newsom get out there and try to campaign, one, he didn't seem authentic.

KILMEADE: Yes.

PERINO: He was kind of very angry. It didn't seem like him. He wasn't talking about the issues and they so badly want to run against President Trump that that's a little bit of a tell for the 2022 midterms. The other thing is, if you're the commander-in-chief and you've left Americans stranded behind enemy lines in Afghanistan, I'd spend all my time focused on that. I wouldn't go to California. I wouldn't campaign. I would make sure everybody knows I'm going to make sure I'm going to get those people out.

KILMEADE: Why did he, Jesse? Why did he show up?

WATTERS: He's campaigning in the middle of a pandemic.

KILMEADE: He wouldn't care if (inaudible) himself.

WATTERS: In the middle of hostage crisis. You see, we can play that game, too. Trump is now the wedge issue for Democrats. This is what they have done. So, you're either a Trump Republican. And that fires up the Democrat base, or if you try to distance yourself from Trump, the Republican base goes crazy and hates you.

PERINO: Yes.

WATTERS: So that could work in a state like California where Republicans are outnumbered, but that's not really going to play in swing districts next fall. It's a lazy argument. But the real issue is immigration has killed the Republican Party in the state of California. The foreign born population in the state of California is 25 percent. Foreign born voters vote 2-1 Democrats.

You do amnesty. You do those special visas, green cards --

PERINO: Driver license.

WATTERS: -- chain migration, birth right amnesty. You're just loading it up. We already know Hispanics vote 2-1 Democrat, Asians 2-1 Democrat. We know blacks, 90 percent, they vote Democrat. So, in a state like that, if you throw out a lot of nasty racial attacks to that population, you know, we're not all paying attention that much to politics, that's going to move the needle.

And then you add the $70 million in advertising and the guy is good looking. Gavin Newsom, great head of hair, charisma, well-tanned. A lot of people pay attention to that kind of stuff. I don't personally, at all. But a lot of people do.

KILMEADE: Very similar hair style to Pete Hegseth.

WATTERS: Yes.

KILMEADE: You both (inaudible) steals a lot of gel. For more now, let's go to Jessica. Jessica, why did they not bring up things that he did well? Why don't they say he's done a great job building up the homeless population, raising taxes? Why don't they point out some of the things that he did well? How come they're always just saying you don't want Donald Trump?

TARLOV: You don't want Donald Trump or you do want Donald Trump is the most animating issue in America and continues to be that way. That is just not going to change even through the midterms.

KILMEADE: The midterms.

TARLOV: And Jesse is right, not about the hair thing. I mean, he -- Gavin Newsome is very good looking, but that does not get you a governorship. But coming out right now and saying that Larry --

WATTERS: What has he done well? What has Newsom done well besides --

TARLOV: I think --

KILMEADE: That's what I was hoping --

WATTERS: What has he done well?

PAVLICH: He has a great choice in restaurants.

KILMEADE: Right.

TARLOV: The French Laundry is lovely.

WATTERS: Right.

KILMEADE: There's no wait.

TARLOV: I did not go during the pandemic.

WATTERS: Besides the French Laundry, what has he done well?

TARLOV: People in the state he had a very high approval rating --

WATTERS: What has he done well, Jessica?

TARLOV: What are you talking about? Like, all issues (ph) my sister lives there.

KILMEADE: We don't know.

WATTERS: All right, you don't know. You can't answer the question.

TARLOV: What do you want me -- what do you want to me to say about it.

WATTERS: You can't answer the question. That is fine.

TARLOV: Because like we have wild -- can I just say something about who's voting in contrast to what Jesse was saying. Yes, you have a Latino population that tends to vote Democrat that is shifting. You also have a very conservative Asian population that sent more Asian representatives on the Republican side to Congress in 2020. Those things make a difference.

They will not shift the recall. But Democrats are very aware of a shifting tide in terms of how minority populations are voting and he's bringing up racial justice issues not to say that Larry Elder is a white supremacist, but to say that only one party, the Democratic Party is the one paying attention to the racial inequality issues.

KILMEADE: And one big -- and one big advantage, he had the media on his side. I mean, for them to not have the white woman with a gorilla mask throwing eggs at him on the front page of the "L.A. Times" or even in the news story, Katie.

WATTERS: Yes. That's good.

PAVLICH: They called it an egg throwing incident.

KILMEADE: Right.

PAVLICH: And then the "L.A. Times" viciously used a photo of Larry Elder in a moment where he was moving towards someone he knows. It looked like he was hitting her, on the story, like this, and said that he had to leave this homeless encampment because there was an incident with Larry Elder implying that he was the one who was engaged in violence against this woman when really he was being attacked by a white woman in a gorilla face.

But I will say it's been a long time since Ronald Reagan was governor of California, but conservatives have been making up some ground in these more conservative districts and I think that people in California, including minorities, care a lot about crime and homelessness affecting their communities and the places that they live.

And it's interesting to me, to ask the question to someone like Gavin Newsom or President Joe Biden. To all the Democrats who are voting against Gavin Newsom or are the Donald Trump? Are all the Democrats running against Gavin Newsom the same thing as Donald Trump? Because it's not just Republicans and Larry Elder who want to recall the governor. There are also a lot of independents and Democrats who want to do the same thing.

KILMEADE: Right. That's right. All I had to do was say, Katie, what do you think? I didn't mean to have to ask the question. Thank you so much. All right. So, let me tell you what's coming up over the next 37 minutes. This story, President Biden about to give a speech in Colorado on green energy. I know what you're saying finally. We'll monitor it for any news.

Coming up, socialist hypocrite, AOC, defends wearing tax the rich gown to a star-studded event that we were not invited to and couldn't afford.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TARLOV: Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez defending herself from accusations of hypocrisy after wearing "Tax the Rich" dress to a star- studded gala were it gets cost $35,000.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Oh, my god, "Tax the Rich." What a model, AOC. I didn't know you model as well.

REP. ALEXANRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): When Aurora and I were first kind of partnered, we really started having a conversation about what it means to be working class women of color at the Met. And we said, you know, we can't just play along, but we need to break the fourth wall and challenge some of the institutions. And, you know, while the Met is known for its spectacle, we should have a conversation about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TARLOV: Okay. So, housekeeping first. She didn't pay for the tickets, she didn't pay for the dress. So just putting it there.

PAVLICH: So who did?

PERINO: Yes.

TARLOV: But -- but -- it was donated and I don't know F, you know, I don't know what FEC form that goes on. But, today, everyone is talking about it. Isn't this just --

PAVLICH: Which was the point.

TARLOV: Which was the point, right. So doesn't AOC just win?

PAVLICH: I guess she wins in terms of her goal of furthering the conversation, which she did. Everybody is talking about it. But I actually found this infuriating and it has nothing to do with her dress. If you watch the way that these elites walk in the red carpet, they are walking unabated. Their faces are open. They get to smile for all the cameras.

And all of the working class people serving them have to be faceless, they are masked and we've seen this as a habit with the left. And she claims to be fighting for the people and I watched a video of her having her train carried through the carpet into the Met by a bunch of people working there who were masked.

We saw Nancy Pelosi do this with her big outdoor dinner while the servants, many people of color, by the way, you know, serving them. We saw this with President Obama's party. So this idea now of the left and the elites allowing the pandemic -- and they've never had to deal with it. They all flew in on private jets, they don't have to worry about vaccine mandates for their commercial travel if they want to go see their family. But the people that they think should serve them and work for them, they have to be subjugated to all these rules.

So, it's not about her dress. It's not about criticizing her body, as she said in her defense of this. This is about Marxism and what -- communism at its core, which is the elites get to do whatever you want, and all the peasants and the little people have to serve them and they have to obey all the rules that they want to just go to work for a day.

TARLOV: Dana, what do you think about that point?

PERINO: A couple of things. So, she is AOC Antoinette. And this is the perfect event for her. The champagne socialists all get together once a year. And, Katie, that is a very good point about the working class people that were there, because the Democratic Party has a little bit of problem.

And the Republicans have taken a different tack in the last several years that they're more of the party of the working class. And you might start to see a little bit more of this if the Republicans can figure out how to do this. She didn't pay for the ticket. The ticket was donated. Do you think that the person who donated the ticket to the nonprofit fundraiser didn't deduct that from their taxes? Of course they did.

And they didn't show up in hybrid cars, and Green New Deal vehicles. They are right now trying to pass a $3.5 trillion bill and reverse engineering it like it's going to help all sorts of people. And the trust in government is at such a low ebb right now that -- I mean, I don't know if he's going to pass or not. The thing for her is she knows how to get attention. She does very well. She's a beautiful young woman. She's got a big following.

My last point is, I really respect the designer, Aurora James, impressive person. But in her Twitter feed AOC said that she was an immigrant. OK, she comes from Canada.

KILMEADE: Right.

PERINO: OK. It's not like she was like making her way up from, you know, a really tough place like Bangladesh or Nicaragua. Like, she came from Toronto.

KILMEADE: Well, she came to New York to speak Canadian. So, it must have been really tough.

PAVLICH: The other thing on that too is AOC is not working class, OK. She grew up in a very rich suburb. She went to Boston University. She was a bartender for a short period of time. And now she's a Congresswoman living in Washington D.C. in one of the most expensive buildings in D.C., and she lives above the Whole Foods and drive the Tesla. So, come on.

WATTERS: Bernie Sanders would have stood across from the steps of the gala --

TARLOV: In a coat?

WATTERS: With a little placard that said, tax the rich and a bullhorn. That's a protest. This is a performance. This is a pop star socialists trying to get street cred for the slogan but also wanting to hang out with celebrities. Here's how this is good. Anna Wintour runs the costume wing of the Met, all right. So, she -- this is her Gala.

KILMEADE: How do you know there is a costume wing? There is?

WATTERS: There's a wing.

TARLOV: It's incredible.

WATTERS: So, she sends AOC a ticket, and everybody else, as Dana said, writes this off as a tax deduction. So, AOC goes, she gets buzz, the Met Gala gets buzz, we're talking about it. And all these rich liberals get to feel like yes, we're virtuous. Yes, sure, tax the rich. And then the next day, they're accountants are working 24./7 to lower their taxable income.

The funny thing is AOC writes the tax code. She's raising awareness. OK, we know liberals want to raise taxes on the rich. We've known that for 100 years. She could write a tax bill. AOC hasn't ever written a bill that's gotten out of committee her entire career. She just lets Nancy and Chuck do it with a roomful of lobbyists. They carve out the loopholes. And then in an upcycle, the Republicans meet with the lobbyists, and they carve out loopholes. They do it every time. And you know, she gets what she wants.

KILMEADE: Six out of every $10.00. Right now, if you work in New York, if you have $10, you have to give away six. How much more money do you want? 61 percent of everyone's income on the books between state, local, and city taxes, goes to somebody else. And yet most of those people that are rich, a very few were inherited. A lot of them were working 60, 70 hours a week supporting other people who are not working or who work government jobs.

The other thing is, to bring up, Mayor De Blasio was also there. This guy's taking a vow of poverty. He's the Marxist who is really against the rich, and he's for the working class, and he hates cops. And he hangs out with the rich and famous. That's where he's going to end up in his years. I just find the whole thing detestable, but I feel that -- I feel as though this is going to be the preliminary to the Manchin-AOC heavyweight bout that's going to be taking place in two or three weeks.

TARLOV: I don't know. Joe Manchin was pretty dismissive of her on the Sunday shows. He was like, we haven't really spoken. I don't really care.

KILMEADE: He was 3.5 children --

PAVLICH: He also wasn't there. You know, he wasn't there at the Met last night after she's accused him all week of being this rich, expensive lobbyists guy.

KILMEADE: He doesn't want to spend. He doesn't want to spend $3.5 trillion.

TARLOV: Maybe he'll spend 1.5. All right, up next, President Biden accuses GOP governors of putting people at risk while his administration causes more COVID confusion.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAVLICH: President Biden once again slamming GOP governors who dare criticize his new vax requirements.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People are doing everything they can to block or undermine the life-saving mandates we proposed, putting other people at risk, putting their children at risk, putting their states at risk. And here's the worst thing for these Republican governors, it isn't about public health about thousands of people, it's about politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAVLICH: That comes as the Biden Administration causes more COVID confusion. A tweet from Vice President Kamala Harris that talks about protecting the vaccinated has people scratching their heads given that's how vaccines by design are supposed to work. And a group of scientists, including to senior FDA officials who will be reportedly stepping down soon say there isn't enough evidence for booster shots among the general population, but the White House is going along with it anyway.

So, Dana, the communication throughout the pandemic has been terrible, but most recently, what they're trying to implement these mandates but saying you're protecting the vaccinated from the unvaccinated, you could argue the unvaccinated are risk to the unvaccinated maybe --

PERINO: Yes.

PAVLICH: But you can't say the unvaccinated are risks to the vaccinated --

PERINO: They can't spread it.

PAVLICH: -- especially when the CDC director is saying vaccinated are spreading this, right?

PERINO: Yes, that was the most coherent -- incoherent part of the President's speech last week -- was it just last week in terms of the mandates? The other thing is that the President seems to be trying to do is to silo his political enemies into being against vaccines. And it's just like, it's not right and it's not fair. And if you look at the merits of it, it's not true.

So, maybe on the masking thing, if that -- if we really truly believe that masks were going to be the end-all cure-all, maybe you could have an argument about that. But we're actually talking about vaccines. And all the governors -- for example, I think Asa Hutchinson from Arkansas had a very good point. It's like, what are you doing? I'm actually trying to get my people vaccinated and you coming in with this heavy federal government push is just making it much harder for me.

The other thing is in the Washington Post today, there's this big piece about the concern that the vaccine hesitancy about COVID could actually spill over into other vaccines like for chickenpox, measles, polio, things like that. What's interesting to me about that is where was that concern a year ago to almost to the day when Kamala Harris and Joe Biden were running for president and vice president, and they said they would be unwilling to take the vaccine if it was approved under a Trump presidency. And nobody said anything about vaccine hesitancy at that point.

PAVLICH: Right. Dr. Kilmeade --

KILMEADE: Yes.

PAVLICH: You know, you love telling people what to do for what their medical decisions, so we're giving you the floor.

KILMEADE: Well, don't ever have me go after Dana. You took like nine of my points. But you know -- it's because she saw my notes. I never should have left them out. That's fine. A couple of things. You're 100 percent right about Governor Hutchinson. Not only that, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, partly an apologist or, you know, apologist for Trump or anybody else, he says, listen, you don't want to do that. I have conversations with people in my office to describe why they should get the vaccine, what rDNA technology is.

The other thing I would add, because I know other people got to get in here is that when you go through this vaccine, and you want people to take the vaccine, I think it would be perfectly honest to say who's not taking it. PhDs aren't taking it. There's a huge number of medical experts who aren't taking it. And the African American Community, 40 percent have been vaccinated.

So, just go ahead and don't yell at Trump supporters and say you're the problem. Point out there are some smart people that don't want to take it. Ask them why.

PAVLICH: Right. Jessica?

TARLOV: I think that everyone who hasn't taken it yet should get a fair hearing as to why they're not doing it. The natural immunity conversation is obviously a huge element in all of this. And I think that's why it was part of the Biden vaccine mandate that you could also get tested on a weekly basis, and that would cover you in terms of being vaccinated. Like, you can get on an airplane, you can do all of those things.

The Kaiser Family Foundation who I think really leads the way in terms of great data when it comes to health care, has a lot of interesting information about who people turn to when they want advice from this, and its friends and family and your personal doctor. That's where people are getting most of this information. I think that is a good thing.

But I also do you know that a lot of private businesses have welcomed Biden's mandate because they don't want to be the ones to say you're going to lose your job if you don't do this, they can now say, these are the rules. And we have seen huge spikes in people getting vaccinated because of it. And we know that that does count -- cut down on your chance of ending up on a ventilator in a hospital and that is a good thing.

PAVLICH: So, Jessie, we also see though a lot of especially small businesses -- corporations are totally fine with this, but small business saying we can't afford this. And they're setting them up really to get sued.

WATTERS: Right. And the trial lawyers donate to the Dems, so it all comes back to that. Actually, after Biden announced the vax mandate, vaccination rates have dropped. It actually backfired. Same --

TARLOV: Over the weekend?

WATTERS: No, this was like, almost 10 days ago.

TARLOV: It was Friday.

WATTERS: No, it wasn't Friday.

PAVLICH: But it was federal and then it was the private business. There were different announcements.

WATTERS: Look at the charts, Jessica, OK. You can't argue with the facts, all right. And the same thing happened with the J&J pause. Same kind of plummet occurred then, and these are from the same people that said they wouldn't take a Trump vaccine.

Additionally, as a constitutional scholar, only the states can mandate vaccines. This is a workaround through the Labor Department that Congress has not authorized the Labor Department to do this. This is a major rule. So, this is not going to fly.

And a new thing that just broke. Hospitalizations, they keep talking about overwhelming hospitalizations. It's not necessarily people going in because they have COVID. They're going in for other things, and they happen to pop positive for COVID.

PAVLICH: Right.

WATTERS: So, that's been a total misinformation game that the left is playing. No one is talking about California, highest death toll. LA County's like a mortuary when it comes to COVID. But all they want to do is talk about Florida.

PAVLICH: Right.

WATTERS: Go figure.

TARLOV: Florida has surpassed New York now and they had relive --

WATTERS: Come on, man.

PAVLICH: All right, we got to go, but we'll talk about this again, I'm sure. Next up, Jesse Watters steps into Greg shoes and roast him in an epic fashion. I'm not sure Greg -- I'm not sure Greg liked it but it's good.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: I had the esteemed pleasure of filling in for my colleague Greg Gutfeld on it's highly acclaimed late-night talk show "GUTFELD!" And I couldn't resist but roast the king of late night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: My deepest condolences go out to you the audience. You thought you were getting Gutfeld, instead, you're getting someone taller, better looking, and someone who didn't get fired from a ton of magazines.

I'm filling in for Gutfeld tonight. I got to dress the part. Let's see what he's gotten his closet. It's pretty nice.

Now, that's comedy, stealing other people's material, kind of like what Greg does with Scott Adams.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: So, Dana, afterwards I felt remorse because I thought I might have been too mean to Greg. Was I too mean?

PERINO: I feel that you -- I laughed. I thought -- I think that roasts are supposed to be where you make fun of someone. And I don't think that you said anything where that he hasn't already made fun of himself about.

WATTERS: It didn't sound like anybody else was laughing when I was doing that.

PAVLICH: They were laughing. They were laughing.

PERINO: Katie was there. She said they were laughing. It's just a small audience because of COVID. I laughed. I laughed very, very hard. The exclamation point thing was great. The wardrobe, the cackling, and it was just -- you know, it just -- it made me just really love all y'all.

WATTERS: Well, I did say at the top Kilmeade that when Gutfeld took off, that he wanted the second funniest guy at Fox to fill in for him, but you were on vacation.

KILMEADE: Oh, very nice. I will say this. This is my opinion. The famous relationship with -- Vince Lombardi was this tough coach, but he was in awe of Paul Hornung because Paul Hornung had the great hair. And Phil got all the girls and you know, youth. And Vince Lombardi would have had a gap in his teeth. He was kind of a short squat guy.

WATTERS: Yes.

KILMEADE: I think Greg who's famously angry at me all the time, worships you.

WATTERS: I would have --

KILMEADE: I feel like -- I feel like he worships you.

WATTERS: You feel like he worships me?

KILMEADE: He only laughs at you. He never goes after you. I think he's a little bit afraid. He wants to be you.

PERINO: No. You can only love somebody that you like.

WATTERS: You're causing so much trouble, but I like everything you're saying. Katie, I also mentioned that Greg's big achievement is now he was the last Fox host to interview Donald Trump.

PAVLICH: That may be true. He might want to fact-check you on that, but yes.

WATTERS: There are some -- there are some folks hosts who haven't interviewed Trump?

PAVLICH: I think there's a few.

WATTERS: Who are those hosts?

PAVLICH: There's a few of them.

WATTERS: Jessica, was I -- was I too mean?

TARLOV: I don't think so. But as someone who was very poorly received by the "GUTFELD!" audiences as well, I feel like we have that in common. We share a name.

WATTERS: All right, we're bullying the audience.

TARLOV: I'm just saying. I got booed.

WATTERS: OK, I think -- I think I got booed too.

TARLOV: I got groaned.

WATTERS: I got groaned. I could hear it. Sorry, Greg.

PERINO: I thought you did a great job.

WATTERS: "ONE MORE THING" is up next.

TARLOV: You did.

WATTERS: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: You missed a great commercial break. It's time now for "ONE MORE THING." Jessica.

TARLOV: OK, so, unfortunately, we lost one of our great comics. Norm MacDonald passed away today after a long battle -- a private battle with cancer. Here's one of my favorite bits, skits, things he did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORM MACDONALD, COMEDIAN: He became the first defensive player to win the Heisman Trophy. Congratulations, Charles. That is something that no one can ever take away from you unless you kill your wife and a waiter. In which case, all bets are off now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TARLOV: Famous for SNL and making Weekend Update. The most fantastic bet for a while. He constantly went after O.J. even though executives were like, could you please stop talking about O.J., totally fearless, but loved by all. He's just a fantastic human. Only 61 years old when he passed away. And I know that everyone in the comedy community, certainly like Greg and Jesse here after last night, are mourning his passing.

KILMEADE: He's the comic's comic.

PERINO: Yes, he's a really wonderful guy.

TARLOV: A comic's comic.

PERINO: So, you know, everybody knows I married a Brit. For years, he has tried to explain to me the rules of cricket. I didn't really understand it until I saw this. This is a dog that stole the ball and the show during this cricket match in Ireland. Check him out. It's already underway. And then this dog named Dazzle is like I got it. I got it.

PAVLICH: Yes, Dazzle.

PERINO: And they get the ball beforehand and nobody can catch him. He kept going. He might deserve a spot on the team. If you're in you're out and you're out you're in or something like that are the rules. Brian probably understands that. And you're next.

KILMEADE: I don't know cricket, but I do know this. Coming up in November 2nd, The President of Freedom Fighter is going to be coming out. It's my fifth history book. And this was probably the most exciting. It took two years to put together. I would have been on stage talking about it eventually with Dana. We had to postpone our event over in Asbury Park, but I'll be in Charleston, West Virginia November 7th on stage, December 3rd in Ponte Vedra, Orlando, on the 21st, and Clearwater, Florida on December 4th. briankilmeade.com. It's kind of a war -- the war against history and how to win it.

Now, something else happened. Tim Green, a good friend of mine, has ALS. He's also a fantastic writer. He wrote with his eyes, this book the final season. He talked about it through a synthesizer today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM GREEN, FORMER FOOTBALL PLAYER: I've lost the use of my voice and all my limbs, but I'm so grateful for the technology that allows me to write books.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KILMEADE: First-round pick of the Falcons, one of the greatest college football players ever. Pick up the final season. The money goes to ALS. It is number three on Amazon right now and great for young kids.

PAVLICH: Yes, it's awesome.

PERINO: Let's get it to number one. Jesse?

WATTERS: My man T Roy Broussard, Swamp People, got off to a hot start in Texas' core gator season.

PERINO: Oh boy.

WATTERS: Look at that. Look at these, pulling in some big monsters, 11-foot three-inch long gator from the swamps of Texas, first harvest to the 2021 core season. Way to go T-Roy.

PERINO: I'm scared.

WATTERS: My man.

PERINO: I'm disappointed. Katie had a great "ONE MORE THING." Are you going to save it?

PAVLICH: I'm going to save it. I'm going to save it.

PERINO: She's going to save it. We'll get it tomorrow. That's it for us. "SPECIAL REPORT" is up next. Hey, Bret.

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