'The Five' on Biden's massive spending plan costing 'zero dollars'

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'The Five' slam Biden claiming massive spending plan 'costs zero dollars'

Panel discusses congressional chaos amid Democrats' spending push

This is a rush transcript of "The Five" on September 29, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST (on camera):  Hello, everybody. I'm Jesse 

Watters along with Dagen McDowell, Harold Ford, Jr., Dana Perino, and Dan 

Bongino. 

It's five o'clock in New York City, and this is THE FIVE.

President Biden's agenda is on the break of a catastrophic failure, and it 

could nuke his entire presidency. The so-called uniter in chief struggling 

to unite his own party in order to pass a massive $3.5 trillion tax and 

grab scheme that's going to fundamentally transform the entire country for 

decades. 

Biden and Bernie Sanders trying to pass this massive spending plan, but 

moderates are saying hey, let's pump the brakes. And White House press 

secretary Jen Psaki is doing her best to say everything is just fine. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY:  Our objective here is to work 

towards unity, work towards an agreement. That's in progress. We are not 

there yet, but we are working on it. 

Well, I would tell you that I think there's a fair number of people who 

might consider themselves quite progressive in this administration. The 

role the president is playing is working to get 50 votes in the Senate. 

That's a role. It sounds like they are happy to have him play.

We'll see. The day is young. I'll just keep saying that. That's the theme 

of the day.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

WATTERS (on camera): And Democrats are either terrible at math or think 

the American people are too stupid by repeating the claim that spending 

$3.5 trillion will actually cost nothing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:  It is zero price tag 

on the debt. We are paying, we are going to pay for everything we spend. 

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA):  This is a zero-dollar bill. 

PSAKI:  Of the investments that were proposed, including tax cuts and the 

pay force, including making the tax system were fair, zero. 

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), UNITED STATES SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE:  It's not about 

a dollar amount. The dollar amount, as the president said, is zero. This 

bill will be paid for. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS (on camera): Dagen, $3.5 trillion, zero, costs nothing, 

DAGEN MCDOWELL, FOX NEWS BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT:  Yes, everything is free. 

They do -- they are bad at math. They might -- Nancy Pelosi could get up 

there and say two plus two is -- and it would be more truthful than what 

she was saying. And they think the American people are stupid. The Biden 

administration has done that all year of the no, no, no, you just don't 

understand, like your grandmother when you disagree with her. That's what 

Nancy Pelosi is doing.

But the -- and we are not going to get any better at math based on that. I 

think, and this is something Dana has talked about with another subject. I 

think if this $3.5 trillion package -- it's not that, it's five -- it's 

$5.5 trillion -- and it's not paid for based on the joint committee on 

taxation, only $2 trillion is raised in revenue. 

And these are entitle -- these are vast entitlements that transform the 

United States, it's the end of the American dream. There is universal basic 

income in here, a trillion dollars in the child tax credit that would go on 

forever, it goes to the affluent. There are other elements in here that 

change the foundation of the way we work and live. 

The American dream is about striving and moving up and working hard. And 

this, none of these entitlements which go on well into the future are tied 

to work. So, it encourages people to essentially sit at home. That being 

said, a failure of this would be a great success for the Democrats next 

year and the Biden administration. 

We've already spent $6 trillion, another $1 trillion with the 

infrastructure. Inflation is the number one concern for voters right now. 

Eighty-two percent find -- are very concerned about it, they are extremely 

or very concerned about inflation. That's more than coronavirus, 

Afghanistan, unemployment, you name it. 

If this dies, it helps keep inflation in check. Real wages have been 

falling all year, so adjusting for inflation, people are earning less 

money. And then, I'm not going to steal your thunder, but there's one 

headline from today -- Dana, I'm team you up -- 

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS CO-HOST:  I don't know which one.

MCDOWELL:  -- the Dollar Tree headline. 

PERINO:  That's a big one.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO:  Did you hear about that? 

WATTERS:  I did not.

PERINO:  So, the Dollar Tree is a very, very popular store. And I think 

that you could sort of see this as a barometer of what's happening. They 

announced today after several months ago, saying we're not going to 

increase prices, don't worry, anybody. They are likely to move everything 

up to a $1.25 to $1.50 in order to cover the costs because things are going 

up. And when that happens at the Dollar Tree, everybody will know about it. 

The cost is --

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS:  Do they have to change up the name? 

DAN BONGINO, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  Right. Right.

PERINO:  It's a Dollar-ish.

WATTERS:  It's a $1.50.

BONGINO:  It's a dollar plus.

PERINO:  And another thing on -- can I go now?

WATTERS:  Go, please.

PERINO:  Another thing about the bill is that several of the -- in the big 

$3.5 trillion -- several of the paid for -- or not paid for -- several 

items expire in a few years. So, for example, free child care. That goes 

away in four years. So, what happens? Then you have to have a big fight and 

you have to find out who is going to reauthorize it. 

So, it becomes a weapon to use against any conservative who might say I 

actually don't think this is a great idea but once you start on these 

entitlements. That's why AOC always says what are you talking about? Our 

programs are so popular. And that's because you didn't stop it in its 

tracks. 

On this situation, heads, Biden loses, tails, the GOP wins. If they pass 

this monstrosity and send the economy into a spiral, the cost of living 

goes up, the inflation spikes, and they get crush in the midterms. That's 

what will happen because that's what people vote on. If they fail to pass 

it, his legislative agenda is toast. 

WATTERS:  It is. And I could see, Dan, if this guy wins a landslide in 

2020, and he has 60 Senate seats he's got a massive House majority --

BONGINO:  Right. Right

WATTERS:  -- then you can say this is a mandate.

BONGINO:  Right.

WATTERS:  But he didn't campaign on that. And he's got 50-50 in the Senate. 

Razor thin in the House.

BONGINO:  Yes.

WATTERS:  Yet he is going all in right now. 

BONGINO:  Yes. And you just said something about the budget gimmicking, 

gimmicking. Remember, what you said is accurate. The spending is projected 

for three years and then the program expires, but the taxes are over the 

10-year window. This is the scam they use. And the program never goes away. 

Because Republicans, you know, it's sad to say -- but you know, the golden 

rule they have about Republicans, most Republicans on Capitol Hill are 

really Democrats, but no Democrats are really Republicans. So, they'll just 

reauthorize the program. 

But here's the thing. This is easy to disprove this. This is going to cost 

us zero dollars insanity. We have an actual national debt counter like just 

put it in search engine.

WATTERS:  Yes.

BONGINO:  I guarantee you it will click up every year the annualize the 

amount of the $3.5 trillion, and yet when you show them your phone and say 

look, it went up by the amount you said it wouldn't, they'll just make up a 

new story that Trump was for it --

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS:  So, Dan, has anybody fact check that? All those fact checkers 

that went wild.

BONGINO:  No, they're busy checking --

PERINO:  Yes.

BONGINO:  You know, like my Facebook page. 

PERINO:  They didn't get to paid -- they've got two Pinocchio's for the 

zero dollars.

WATTERS:  They only got two?

PERINO:  Two. They said that they could back for more for more Pinocchio's 

if they didn't --

WATTERS:  OK. So, we are waiting on two other Pinocchio's. 

BONGINO:  Wait, one more quick to go.

WATTERS:  Yes?

BONGINO:  This Milton Friedman pegged at best with this. He always said 

like the myth of government spending is, you know, you think your neighbor 

is paying for it. But your neighbor thinks the same thing. Like we're all 

just giving each other money while the government grifts and takes a cut. 

Government is a cesspool.

WATTERS:  Yes.

BONGINO:  Every dollar it spends it takes out of the economy and spends 

less efficiently than you could spend on yourself. They destroy everything 

they touch. 

WATTERS:  And they are saying it doesn't raise taxes on anybody making over 

400K, but inflation, huge tax on the middle class. 

MCDOWELL:  And we are becoming Europe. We are going to become Europe so we 

are going to have a value-added tax to pay for all less --

(CROSSTALK) 

WATTERS:  I don't want to become Europe, Harold. I want to be America. Why 

can't we just be ourselves? 

HAROLD FORD, JR., FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  I resemble your statement.

WATTERS:  Why are we trying to change us so much? 

FORD:  It's good to be back at the table and see some things haven't 

changed.

WATTERS:  Yes.

FORD:  The -- what I would say is that there's a lot right here and I think 

there's probably a little wrong. Supply chain challenges are also driving 

up cost as well. My family business down in Memphis and the funeral home 

business, we are having problems at getting caskets because of -- because 

of the issues in China. 

But I don't disagree with you. Certainly, some of these pressures are 

driving up prices. President Biden -- like a lot of presidents -- President 

Bush -- you have the big tax cuts. I was in Congress when those tax cuts 

passed. They had to be renewed also, and were renewed under President 

Obama. People think that would be but they were renewed.

PERINO:  Yes.

FORD:  I think it's good to let some of these things expire in Congress. 

Because you forced Congress to then go back before the people and litigate 

it. Now I'm not for the $3.5 trillion. I think it's too big. I don't -- I 

don't necessarily think that spending $3.5 trillion is a totally wrong 

thing, but on the things that they want to spend it, I don't think they are 

serious enough. 

I think the universal pre-K, the investing in families, investing in child 

care, I think there is an important thing for a lot of people who want to 

go to work in our country.

But Democrats have gotten too much off on processing this whole thing. The 

more you argue a progress the more you are going to lose. I think 

Republicans win -- the party arguing against the big bill is -- who is 

arguing process is going to lose. And Democrats find themselves in a big 

jam. 

Biden, like every other president, is facing some headwinds, he's facing 

some consternation and some adversity. He was elected to unify the country. 

he was elected to help us overcome COVID and boost the economy. And the 

Afghan evacuation didn't go well. He is not able to unite his own party 

which is creating challenges. The question becomes --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS:  But he has created those headwinds, Harold. 

FORD:  -- can --

WATTERS:  These are all self-inflicted.

FORD:  I think some of them maybe, but others are not. He has to unite his 

own party. And if he can't unite his party, he's not going to -- everything 

you led with about this being a bad thing for Biden and for his agenda it 

will come true. If they are able to get together pass something small, grab 

the victim in front of you, grab the infrastructure package and try to get 

momentum, then go forward. Try to boost $3.5 trillion --

MCDOWELL:  Can I --

WATTERS:  Yes.

FORD:  -- it's not going to -- not going to do it. 

MCDOWELL:  I have been talking about this for days on end. Number one, this 

universal pre-K. OK. Let's get the government involved in that area of the 

economy, which will surely drive up the cost --

PERINO:  Yes.

MCDOWELL:  -- the way health insurers and college. Why do you think it 

costs a quarter of a million dollars to get a four-year degree? Because of 

government intervention in lending. So, no to that. Because again, that's -

- that's what the left throws at people, like, well, this is about the 

human infrastructure, which I've actually heard Mark Zandi say. It was like 

when were you --

(CROSSTALK)

BONGINO:  They told the investments are right. You said it too, Harold. 

-- when you do -- when did you -- when did you start regurgitating.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS:  The best of (Inaudible).

BONGINO:  A government spending is like, so if the government wants to 

invest in things that regular people don't want to invest in themselves. 

WATTERS:  Right. You don't want to invest in families, Dan. You're so evil.

MCDOWELL:  And it's unfair and absurd according to Jen Psaki --

WATTERS:  Yes.

MCDOWELL:  -- when you raise a company's taxes that they are going to raise 

cost. She doesn't know her elbow from a hole in the ground. 

WATTERS:  Just don't change the name of the Dollar Tree store. Can we agree 

on that?

PERINO:  Yes.

WATTERS:  We can agree. 

FORD:  Dollar plus.

WATTERS:  Coming up, top generals grilled over Biden's botched pullout of 

Afghanistan, and they made a shocking admission about the Taliban.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): There's only three possibilities. Either the 

president lied to the American people, or he legitimately cannot remember 

the counsel of his top military advisors in winding down the longest war in 

American history. Or, you have not been fully accurate under oath. General 

McKenzie, I'll ask you, which is it? 

KENNETH MCKENZIE, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND:  I want to be very 

direct. I cannot share advice I give the president, and I will not do that. 

I believe the appropriate level of our forces in Afghanistan should have 

been 2,500. 

JOHNSON:  What did the president know? Did he forget what was told to him, 

or is he not being truthful? Which is it? 

LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY:  I view that as an inappropriate 

question and I will not --

(CROSSTALK)

JOHNSON:  Well, you may, but the American people.

AUSTIN:  Yes.

JOHNSON:  And the American people want and deserve accountability.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

MCDOWELL (on camera): Top generals back on the Hill after blockbuster 

revelations that President Biden ignored their warnings on Afghanistan. 

House lawmakers getting their chance to grill the top brass on why 

Americans and allies were left behind enemy lines. 

And remember how the Biden administration just handed over Kabul to the 

Taliban when we were trying to get everyone out? General McKenzie 

acknowledging today that the Taliban offered to give us control of that key 

city. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNETH MCKENZIE, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND:  As part of --

REP. MIKE GALLAGHER (R-WI):  Did he offer to allow you to have security 

over all of Kabul? 

MCKENZIE:  As part of that conversation he said, why don't you just take 

security for all of Kabul? That's not why I was there. That was not -- that 

was not my instruction. And we did not have the resources to undertake that 

mission. 

GALLAGHER:  Who made the decision to turn down the Taliban offer to allow 

the U.S. military to secure Kabul and put the safety of our troops in the 

hands of the Taliban? 

MCKENZIE:  I did not consider that to be a formal offer. And it was not the 

reason why I was there, so I did not pursue it. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCDOWELL (on camera): Dan, what did you make of that?

BONGINO:  There's a couple takeaways from this. First, I think the Wall 

Street Journal had the best take this morning on Biden. Here's the real 

problem with Biden here. He wants to take credit for the pullout, which a 

lot of Americans agree -- me included, I didn't think we should be there 

forever. Correct? 

But what he doesn't want to do is he doesn't want to take credit for the 

way in which he decided -- he is the commander-in-chief, right? It's -- I 

mean, we can fact fact-check that -- he is the guy. 

He wants to take no credit at all for the disastrous method by which he did 

it, and we want to throw the military under the bus. So now he's put his 

own military in this awful spot where they have to sit up there and massage 

this with obvious answer. Did you tell Joe Biden, the President of the 

United States to leave this way? No, we didn't. 

They can't say that so what do they say? Well, he may have heard it, he may 

have heard it wrong. We said this. Maybe he heard a euphemism for. This is 

like he, I mean, it's so cowardly. Why not just come out and say listen, I 

made a mistake. I wanted to get out. Maybe, you know, I cared a lot about 

the lives of -- I'm giving this guy political -- it's insane. Political 

advice. I lost my run for office. Right?

So, here's the thing. You'll just say like, I made a mistake, we screwed 

up. We are going to rectify. We are going to get our people out. And one 

other thing. You know, I heard Milley today too. He calls in my radio show 

and said this. I thought this was great. He called up and then he goes, 

listen, you know, this Milley character, he goes, this guy is -- he says he 

called China that he was going to warn them about a nuclear attack. 

He goes, someone should ask Milley. I hope someone in Congress is 

listening. Did they warn you about the whole Wuhan virus thing in advance? 

Like, they didn't, so it's a one-way street. I thought that was pretty to 

me. Those are my two takeaways. Biden has really screwed this thing up. 

MCDOWELL:  Dana, the biggest takeaway it might be the biggest ticket item. 

Either Biden lied or he doesn't remember. 

PERINO:  And I think that if you go back. We all knew that this was 

probably going to be what came out of this. Because four months, the media 

had been reporting that President Biden was quite proud of the fact that he 

had overrun the generals. And they were planting stories like that all 

around, and now, and the military was planting stories, saying we are 

suggesting that a force of 2,500 stay.

So, we all knew that that was the case. So, when George Stephanopoulos does 

the interview with President Biden, he knows. Because he said, you mean, 

nobody told you that? And Biden says, the military -- George's question is, 

your military advisors advices. And Biden says, no, they were split. They 

weren't. Those three weren't but who might have been. 

And that was the point that how Rogers and others got too in the hearing, 

which is the State Department and the national security advisor who were 

suggesting troop numbers to the president, who he went with those numbers 

instead of going with what the military said. 

I hope that this is not the end of the accountability to work. Because I do 

think that well, the president won't take questions from the press, but he 

really ought to. And then I think Antony Blinken and Jake Sherman have to 

be called up as well. 

MCDOWELL:  What do you say, Harold? 

FORD:  It was embarrassing, I think to watch Congress require members of 

our military come before them and answer questions about advised they gave 

the president. Donald Trump would not have allowed it to happen. George 

Bush would not have allowed it to happen. And some level of credit you have 

to give to Joe Biden for even allowing him to come forward knowing that 

they are under oath and they are going to tell the truth.

Two, I was looking forward to this hearing, not to politicize and 

relitigate the politicization of what happened there. I was more interested 

in, now that we are where we are, what do you guys think we should be doing 

for our over-the-horizon strategy? Are you persuaded that the president is 

right? 

Because we have a civilian control military. Their role in our military is 

to -- with the president -- is to be his advisor. And the president 

ultimately will be held responsible. Why? His party will have a midterm 

election in a year and a half or less, a year and a quarter, and he will be 

up for reelection, and he will have to stand before the voters not the 

generals. 

PERINO:  Yes.

FORD:  I would urge my old friends there. Stop beating up on Milley and 

Austin and McKenzie. These men are doing their jobs. They gave the advice 

that they gave, and president, if you want to quarrel, quarrel with Biden. 

It was his decision. Now, for those who want to still be in Afghanistan and 

have 50,000 troops, you should just say that. 

But to come and have these gentlemen come before Congress, to have the 

world witness us question -- I think Milley kind of looks like Colonel 

Jessup from the old Tom Cruise movie -- to have these gentlemen have to sit 

there and take this political campaigning on the part of mostly 

Republicans, some Democrats, I think it was an embarrassment to the 

country. 

MCDOWELL:  Right.

FORD:  Get to the question of the over the horizon capacity, are we 

threatened, are we better off and what did we do --

(CROSSTALK) 

PERINO:  But they answer that yesterday. The answer was yes.

FORD:  That was 5 percent of it.

WATTERS:  It would be very difficult to handle over the horizon. 

MCDOWELL:  Well --

PERINO:  Yes.

FORD:  But I never heard them say then tell us what you would be advising 

now in light of where we are. 

MCDOWELL:  Well, you've got 10 dead --

(CROSSTALK)

FORD:  No, no --

MCDOWELL:  -- you've got 10 dead civilians because of a faulty drone 

strike. 

WATTERS:  They'll just say they are going to talk about it behind closed 

doors, that's how they get out of it. 

PERINO:  Yes.

WATTERS:  It's not just one life. This isn't just I'm not telling the truth 

about what the generals told me. He lied about over the horizon, he lied 

about the collapse in 11 days. He lied about the Taliban advanced. He lied 

when he said we are going to bring back every American no matter how long 

it takes. He asked the Afghan president to lie. 

So, it's again, this is 3.50. This is the border is secure. This guy is a 

stone-cold liar, he has a history of plagiarism. The last president he'd 

embellish crowd size maybe a poll number. He was a marketer. Biden is just 

a straight up liar. OK? And everybody needs to know that now. We've learned 

a lot about him over these last eight months. And you can't disguise the 

fact. 

You also can't disguise the fact that the U.S. military, to say that you 

train these guys to depend on you and your technology for 20 years and then 

then pull out all the technology and the personnel and expect them to be 

able to hold up.

PERINO:  And then blame them.

WATTERS:  And then blame them for collapsing because they didn't have the 

will to fight? No, they didn't have the troops to fight. You didn't train 

them the right way. You didn't give them the right stuff. You gave them all 

our tech -- because that's what the contractors want. 

He did the same thing in Vietnam. They did the same thing in Iraq. And then 

the generals go back and say, you know, we are going to have to look at 

this from top to bottom. Anybody could have figured this out. 

PERINO:  Yes.

WATTERS:  When you pull out anything, they are going to collapse. 

BONGINO:  And the generals spoke to authors, so I think they can speak to 

Congress, too.

PERINO:  Yes.

FORD:  I love the way we just absolve the Trump Doha agreement which 

allowed for the Taliban to take over. We can talk about --

(CROSSTALK) 

BONGINO:  But he bombed them four days the agreement because they've --

(CROSSTALK) 

FORD:  It was his agreement. 

BONGINO:  Yes, but he wasn't bound by it, so how is Biden bound by it?

FORD:  The Taliban had already taken those provinces. We would've had to 

send 40,00 to 50,000 more troops.

(CROSSTALK) 

PERINO:  And nobody wants 50,000 troops.

FORD:  Twenty-five hundred troops cannot -- anyway.

WATTERS:  You don't need 50. We need some air strikes. That's what you need 

here.

(CROSSTALK)

MCDOWELL:  The catastrophic failure starting in the spring at every turn. 

Biden had the opportunity to slow down, turn off, stop. He ignored 

everyone. The generals were pulling out of Bagram, and they took a pause of 

four days and he said move along. He wanted to make the speech on 9/11 

about the end of war in Afghanistan. We've got 13 dead service members 

because of it. 

Coming up, President Biden's handling of the border is so bad that even 

Barack Obama said it's a problem. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO (on camera): Did former President Obama just called out the current 

commander-in-chief's crisis at the southern border? Well, in the aftermath 

of that massive migrant camp in Del Rio, Texas, Barack Obama saying America 

has to do something different. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: 

Immigration is tough. We are naturally a people that wants to help others. 

At the same time, we are a nation state. We have borders. The idea that we 

can have open borders is something that, I think, as a practical matter, is 

unsustainable. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO (on camera): And the White House is pushing back on the former 

president. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN:  Does president Biden agree with President Obama that open border 

is unsustainable? 

PSAKI:  We don't have open borders, so yes, he agrees.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

PERINO (on camera): They agree.

WATTERS:  They agree.

PERINO:  What do you think?

WATTERS:  I think this is Barack H. Obama's way of saying that -- it stands 

for his name -- is his way of publicly warning Joe Biden that this is a 

huge problem. And he's a smart guy politically. He won reelection. 

obviously know what he's talking about. And he knows that an open border 

can really wound a sitting president.

He knows high gas prices, domestic terror attacks, messing around with 

people's health care and open borders can make you lose a House majority 

like that. So, this is his way of warning Joe Biden. Is Joe Biden going to 

listen? Obviously not. He's not going to listen.

I went back and looked at what Joe Biden ran on. He ran on restoring the 

soul of the nation. Has Joe Biden done that? No. He know. Joe Biden has not 

restored the soul of the nation. He's a slash and burn divider. He 

demonizes border patrol, police, the military. He is not the guy he sold 

us. 

And at this point, he said he was going to heal this country. This country 

is not healed. Republicans and independents running away because they 

revolted by the way this guy has handled things. And I don't see any Biden 

supporters out there. I see a lot of people -- like, I didn't vote for -- I 

just -- it wasn't Trump. That's what I see.

PERINO: Did you get that when you call home? 

WATTERS: That's what my mom says. Hey, he's better than Trump. 

PERINO: Do you think, Harold, that -- do you wonder if President Obama 

would have called Biden and already told him that privately?

HAROLD FORD JR., FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Probably so. And I agree with 

President Obama. And I think Jen Psaki is right, wants to be right. 

Mayorkas, the secretary, he seems like a nice guy. He seems like a smart 

guy. He's certainly a decent American but he is not the man for this job. 

And I think the White House has to understand that we have a crisis at our 

border and he's not managing the crisis well. 

Now, in fairness to him, there's no policy to really manage either there, 

so the White House has to articulate and promulgate a policy that I think 

has to have three -- 

PERINO: (INAUDIBLE) 

FORD JR.: Well, right. Well, the President has to lay it out for the party 

and it has to have three important pillars. One, you got to -- you got to 

build a wall. Democrats, give him the wall. Republicans, be willing to fund 

judges, the immigration courts there at the border. We have millions of 

people waiting years for their asylum cases to be -- to be adjudicated. 

Let's accelerate that and let people know where they -- if they're going to 

have a chance to be here or not. And then three, Republicans you got to 

invest in this hemisphere. 

We invest trillions in hemispheres around the world to stabilize them yet 

we don't invest in our own hemisphere to invest that. I think those three -

- you can't get to a path to citizenship until you have those three things 

settled. And right now, there's a lot -- a lot of unsettledness. And I just 

thought the White House -- 

PERINO: That sounds like 2006 comprehensive immigration reform. 

FORD JR.: That's exactly right. 

PERINO: But if it was ever to get solved, it would look like that. Your 

take on the president -- 

FORD JR.: Which was your guy. 

DAN BONGINO, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, listen, Obama's race -- 

actually, this is the second Milton Friedman reference in the show and you 

can -- you love -- 

DAGEN MCDOWELL, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: Bring it. Bring it, hotshot. 

BONGINO: Friedman said, and he was right, and Obama has kind of oddly like, 

echoing this, right, you can't have open borders and a welfare state. You 

could have one or you can have -- but you can't have -- the math doesn't 

work. The world is populated with hundreds of millions, billions of people 

in a country that would come here -- hundreds of millions at a minimum if 

they were told they would come here tomorrow.

They could double and quadruple the population of the United States. We 

don't know what skills they have, we don't know who they are, if they can 

add value to the economy, if we're going to have to add value to them first 

generationally. You can't have open borders and a welfare state. It doesn't 

work. And right now, we have both. 

It is a de facto open border. Don't cite to me the legal restrictions. It's 

nonsense. I can prove it to you. The illegal border crossing at Del Rio was 

closed for legal crossers while illegal immigrants were escorted into the 

country before them. Don't tell me we don't -- 

WATTERS: Ask the Europeans about migrations. 

PERINO: Yes.

WATTERS: They didn't want a piece of that. 

PERINO: The border seems to be -- 

FORD JR.: And they haven't grown either. 

PERINO: -- where the coyotes and the human smugglers and the drug smugglers 

are able to do whatever they want to do. 

MCDOWELL: Right. Individuals profiting from human misery and suffering. And 

so, the Biden administration had -- didn't even call it a crisis during all 

this. When little children were being dropped over walls, Harold, they 

called it a challenge over and over and over again because it's more about 

the control of words than actually controlling this wide-open border.

I think that this was probably a slip-up or a foul-up by President Obama 

because when a politician tells you the truth, it's usually a mistake. They 

don't do -- they don't do it on purpose. But I'm kind of guessing that 

Obama watches Fox News. Where else is he -- where else is he seeing these 

pictures?

BONGINO: Listen, I heard Obama backstage a few times. Let me tell you. I 

think he's a little more conservative sometimes that he lets out -- I'm not 

kidding. Like, some of the things, he were like -- 

Seriously, I'm not messing with you. 

MCDOWELL: Yes. Thanks for watching Bill Melugin's incredible reporting, 

although Obama now is kind of out of our demo. 

PERINO: Griff Jenkins is on the raft today was pretty good I think -- 

MCDOWELL: Obama is a little out of the demo now. 

PERINO: Yes. 

MCDOWELL: And he's great though. When he was his eight years in office of 

controlling the optics, remember you closed the national parks during the 

government shutdowns.

FORD JR.: In 2006, you guys tried to do this. This is not Joe Biden's 

issue. This has been around for -- 

PERINO: Well, I think also President Obama might be a little bit concerned 

because all the Biden people are -- basically said that it was Obama's 

third term. He's like, no, that -- my third term would not have looked like 

this, so he might just wanted a little distance.

BONGINO: I swear I don't think he believes his own nonsense, I'm telling 

you. Like, he governed to the left of Lenin Obama, but I'm telling you 

behind this, he knew some of this stuff was -- I knew it.

MCDOWELL: Thanks for watching. 

PERINO: Yes, thank you. OK, up next, the NBA's biggest star LeBron James 

talking vaccines. And what he said will probably not sit well with 

liberals. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BONGINO: Liberals are trying to force vaccine mandates but not everyone's 

onboard including some of the biggest stars in sports. The NBA wants all 

players vaccinated before the start of the season and players who refuse 

could lose pay. Top players like LeBron James are coming around to getting 

the shot but he and others say it's about choice. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEBRON JAMES, NBA PLAYER: I think everyone has their own choice to do what 

they feel is right for themselves and their family. I felt like it was best 

suited for not only me but for my family and for my friends, and you know, 

and that's why I decided to do it.

KYRIE IRVING, NBA PLAYER: I just would love to just keep that private and, 

you know, handle it the right way with my team and go forward.

JONATHAN ISAAC, NBA PLAYER: It is my belief that the vaccine status of 

every person should be their own choice and completely up to them without 

the -- without bullying, without being pressured, and without being forced 

into doing so. I'm not ashamed to say that I'm uncomfortable with taking 

the vaccine at this time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BONGINO: So, let's go around the table. Dana, you know, these guys are 

really eloquent. Did you hear them? I mean -- 

PERINO: Yes. Well, I was just thinking, they're so thoughtful and they 

thought it through. And I think that like the LeBron James comments -- it 

might be very helpful for people who are hesitant to get the vaccine. And I 

-- you have to wonder, where was that before. Like, the White House has 

phone numbers for all these people to try to help make that happen. 

They're extremely thoughtful and they spoke with such care and compassion. 

And if you contrast that with when President Biden gave the speeches and he 

would just want to go after Republicans who weren't vaccinated which is 

there are some, yes, but it's not the entire population of the 

unvaccinated, it's not Republicans, but he was so aggressive and kind of 

mean to them. And I thought that that was, you know, quite impressive.

The one thing we have seemed to completely fall down on was the testing and 

any sort of proof or ability to show that you have natural immunity.

BONGINO: Yes.

PERINO: And that is that just -- it's a complete and total failure. 

BONGINO: And Jesse, watching Jonathan Isaac there red pill the media on 

natural immunity was hilarious.

WATTERS: Well, that's why people think the system is rigged because white 

Trump-supporting American from Florida a little hesitant about getting the 

shot, Joe Biden scorches that person. 

PERINO: Yes.

WATTERS: But a high-profile millionaire NBA star comes out and says I'm a 

little hesitant about getting the shot, it's crickets. And that's what 

people don't like in this country. They just want to be treated fairly. 

It's the same thing with the Black Lives Matter rallies, remember?

BONGINO: Yes. 

WATTERS: Lockdown, quarantine, but you know, if you're going to protest, 

that's not going to spread at all. That's why people don't trust the system 

and don't trust the science because the science changes depending on who 

bucks the system.

BONGINO: Harold?

FORD JR.: They have every right. I'm vaccinated. I can't wait to get the 

booster. The first night I came on this show, Jesse, you shared that we 

shouldn't have to wear a mask if we're vaccinated because you have such a 

small chance of contracting this virus or getting the virus. 

I would hope that everyone would get vaccinated. And I don't racialize 

these things. It's unfortunate that that has occurred. If LeBron James or 

Kyrie Irving or any basketball player - -and I love -- I like them like and 

support them all, there are consequences for not getting vaccinated. You're 

not going to be able to play. Just like if I don't vaccinate my children, 

not with the -- now with the COVID vaccine, if I don't vaccinate my kids, 

they can't go to school. 

So, it's a consequence that I -- if I say -- if I want -- I'm going to 

exercise my choice and my freedom, that's fine, but there are consequences. 

United Airlines fired 600 people today. You know why? Because they didn't 

get vaccinated and that's the consequence of not doing it. 

WATTERS: One of the guys, we think it was Wiggins, tried to get a religious 

exemption and got denied. So, it looks like there's no --

FORD JR.: We don't know the facts behind it. 

WATTERS: -- care for people with religious exemptions either.

MCDOWELL: Dana brought up this and there is -- there is no middle ground 

for people who had COVID who have natural immunity who can prove it. I had 

COVID in March. I went ahead and got vaccinated. But Jonathan Isaac, and 

you heard from him, a small part of what he said from the Orlando Magic, 

gave this incredibly well-reasoned speech or made comments about he had had 

COVID.

And these people are lost in the -- you're either vaccinated or you're some 

kind of whacked-out dirty unvaxed derelict. The -- and the Biden rules on 

businesses coming out of OSHA that previous COVID infections does not -- do 

not excuse employees from the vaccine. Natural immunity could be more 

robust, tends to be more robust and longer-lasting. And there is some 

evidence that people who have natural immunity or strong natural immunity 

are at a heightened risk of vaccine side effects. That's Dr. Marty Makary.

But you know why all these NBA players are going to get vaccinated? Because 

they're not going to get paid for games unless they do. That's happened 

today. So, that's all the wives and all the girlfriends saying, you're 

playing. You're getting the shot, I'm going with you. I'm going to watch 

and make sure you got it.

FORD JR.: It's called capitalism. 

MCDOWELL: And you're going to -- 

BONGINO: I encourage everyone, by the way, listen to that full Jonathan 

Isaac. I think it's about a minute and 50 seconds. It was so eloquent and 

well stated and he just humiliated the media people and the audience who 

acted like jerks with them.

MCDOWELL: And Fauci recently was asked about natural immunity and his 

answer was I'll get back to you on it. 

BONGINO: His answer was ask Jonathan Isaac. Ask Jonathan Isaac. Up next, 

what a Dem politician just said about schools that'll leave many parents 

furious. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FORD JR.: Democratic candidate for governor of Virginia, Terry McAuliffe 

scoring off against Republican Glenn Younkin in a debate last night. One 

comment by McAuliffe about schools is causing a lot of controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRY MCAULIFFE (D-VA), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not going to let 

parents come into schools and actually take books out and make their own 

decision. You stop the bill that I don't think parents should be telling 

schools what they should teach. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FORD JR.: So, you know, I wish my parents had told my teachers to give me 

A's and if not, they would really object. I hope they didn't argue for the 

C-pluses I got. But what do you think is the right balance, Jesse, as you 

think about your kids, the role you should be playing in schools with the 

teachers and the principles of the school?

WATTERS: Well, you elect your school board members and then they have a 

role in curriculum and appointing the superintendent, and that's how things 

should work. And if they do something crazy like CRT or messing around with 

the bathrooms or all the crazy stuff they're doing, sexually explicit 

materials in the library, then you go to a school board hearing and you 

make your voice heard. And that's how the country works. 

But he's a snob, that guy, McAuliffe. And that encapsulates how Democrats 

think. They know better than everybody else, right? They know how to -- how 

to raise your kids. You don't know how to raise your own kids. You don't 

know what's best for your own child. We know what's best. The state knows 

best.

And see, they control the media, they control Hollywood, they got the 

entire university system under lock. They don't have K through 12, but 

they're close. And so, if you object to anything they do, shut up peasant, 

we got this. Peasant, shut up. And that's what people are upset about.

FORD JR.: Dana, you have the same?

PERINO: Well, I would say that what terry McAuliffe committed last night 

was a gaffe that is a genuine game-changer for the race. On average, he's 

up about four points over Youngkin, but talking to some folks down there 

today and people that are in the suburbs and the exurbs, they're tired of 

all sorts of things.

Education is a top-three issue in that state race right now just because of 

what happened all summer. Plus, you have the spending, inflation, you have 

the military problem down there in the Hampton roads area, so this race was 

one to watch.

FORD JR.: Dagen, you got a strong opinion on this? 

MCDOWELL: Since I'm from Virginia -- of course not. I'm from Southside 

which is all red. This is -- might be his basket of deplorables moment for 

Terry McAuliffe because this is not a Democrat versus Republican issue, 

it's not left versus right, it's all parents. And he is firmly snuggling up 

with the teachers' unions on this where he is giving carte blanche to all 

these schools -- these teachers and the unions to just like parents can't 

stand up for what their kids are learning in schools. The teachers union of 

course crushing kids in the last year, a year and a half by keeping them 

locked at home. 

And Terry McAuliffe, by the way, has a history in the state of Virginia and 

he vetoed three school choice bills during his -- what was -- in 2016. So, 

he's anti-child. 

FORD JR.: I think COVID contributed also to keeping these kids home last 

year along with the unions. Dan?

BONGINO: Well, I agree with Dana. It was a huge gaffe. It will go down in 

history as one of the legendary gaffes in a debate. But it wasn't 

incorrect. Like, he meant what he said. And Jesse is right. You're both 

right. Central planners, socialists, far leftists, they need training 

camps. Those training camps have always been schools. What he said was 

exactly what liberals think.

So, it might have been a gaffe, you're absolutely right, but he told the 

truth. 

PERINO: But he told the truth. 

BONGINO: Like you said before, right, politics when they tell the truth, 

that's why he's worried right now because what he said was accurate. 

FORD JR.: You do know K through 12 though is a local function in the state 

responsibility. So, as much as it might be liberals, it's also local 

politicians. "ONE MORE THING" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: It is time now for "ONE MORE THING." Miss Dana Perino.

PERINO: OK, so I was really glad when I got this "ONE MORE THING" because 

you were going to -- you're -- Johnny was trying to get it for you but then 

you passed.

WATTERS: I did?

PERINO: So, I have it. 

WATTERS: OK. 

PERINO: Watch this alligator. So, it's a wild video. U.S. Army veteran 

Eugene Bazi is using a garbage can to capture a gator that was lurking 

around his house and the video of the hero's improvised reptile wrangling, 

it has gone viral. 

WATTERS: (INAUDIBLE) 

But watch -- I mean you think like how is this going to go. Watch it -- 

watch how this move right here when he pulls it up just like that and then 

he gets -- oh shoot, we don't have it. At the very end, he gives the top a 

little tap. 

BONGINO: He doesn't even have sneakers on. Look at that. He's got sliders 

on. 

WATTERS: The socks, yes. 

PERINO: I loved it. 

WATTERS: They called it (INAUDIBLE) 

PERINO: Well done, Eugene. Well done. 

FORD JR.: Military man.

WATTERS: That's right. And on Monday, I was at the 27th annual golf classic 

at Sands Point Golf Club. We were honoring the Denahan family and the Long 

Island Alzheimer's and Dementia Center which is in Westbury.

It's a center where they have a day program that provides hands-on services 

and programs to people who are diagnosed with Alzheimer's, other form of 

dementia. You know how much of a struggle that can be if you know someone 

or a family member is afflicted with that disease. It's really tough. 

So, I just want to thank everybody involved with that. So, go to 

lidementia.org for more information.

PERINO: Are you becoming like the go-to charity golf guy?

WATTERS: Well, Dana, as you know, I don't take off for my birthday. I take 

off charity.

PERINO: Charity and your foundation.

WATTERS: Yes, which will be up and running shortly. Dagen.

MCDOWELL: Golf? How about running, Jesse? Running against Sandra Smith? 

WATTERS: Are you going to shame me into losing this race?

MCDOWELL: Oh, yes I am, because Fox is number one in so many ways. And 

Sandra Smith and many members of -- there's Sandra right there in the red -

- in the red hat. 

WATTERS: She looks kind of slow. Maybe I should race her.

MCDOWELL: Well, three-mile capital challenge in D.C. this morning. Fox won. 

WATTERS: Oh good.

MCDOWELL: Sandra took home the fastest female on air journalism with a time 

of 22 minutes and 33 seconds. That's about a 7.5-minute mile there, Jesse. 

WATTERS: I can do that. I mean, I do do that. 

MCDOWELL: I challenge you to race Sandra Smith who ran on a track 

scholarship at LSU. 

WATTERS: I'm not sure if I'm ready to accept that challenge.

MCDOWELL: Rich Edson ran over six-minute mile -- 

WATTERS: Over to Dan Bongino. What do you have, Dan?

BONGINO: Patriot Awards. I've been doing them ever since they started. In 

Fox Nation this year, Third Annual Patriot Awards, I will be there with 

bells on, November 17th at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Hard Rock Live Theater 

in Hollywood, Florida, so I don't have to go far. It will honor everyday 

men and women who've shown a steadfast dedication to it.

Listen, I come -- yes, I'm going to read this, but it's a great event. We 

have American heroes who do cool stuff unlike these idiots in Hollywood. 

And you need to show up and you need to be there and you need to watch it. 

I did a book signing there last time. It was great. Like, it was packed. It 

was fantastic. November 17th, 8:00 p.m. Sign up for Fox Nation to watch it. 

You see, that was a promo. That's how it goes down.

WATTERS: Patriot Awards, that's how it's done. Harold? 

FORD JR.: One of the rare nights -- one of the rare nights that deep 

partisanship and deep partisan divide can get resolved in a few hours, the 

congressional baseball game, charity baseball game is tonight. Some may 

remember that Steve Scalise, the congressman and leader in the Republican 

Party was out at practice a few years ago and got shot, almost died, made a 

great recovery, mighty recovery with a lot of prayer a lot of medicine, a 

lot of medical help. Good for him.

WATTERS: Who is that?

FORD JR.: They'll play tonight. They'll do it for a good reason. And then 

they'll go back tomorrow to fighting and yelling at each other. I never -- 

I'm not a baseball player but I love the game and I love the fact that all 

the money goes to charity.

BONGINO: Wait, I didn't get the website. Hold on, Web site. Foxnation.com

patriot awards, foxnation.com_patriotawards. You see, Megan, I don't 

forget. 

FORD JR.: And go Dems. Go Dems. 

WATTERS: Yes, they feel like Democrats can win. They're probably going to 

rig it. That's it for us. "SPECIAL REPORT" is up next. Hello, Bret Baier.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: You know, Jesse, I saw Sandra Smith in 

the bureau today, and after her run, I'm pretty sure she could take you.

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