Swalwell: I want to make sure we aren’t dividing success in this country, but multiplying it everywhere we can

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Swalwell: I want to make sure we aren’t dividing success in this country, but multiplying it everywhere we can

California Democrat Rep. Eric Swalwell says that he is open to higher tax on the wealthy.

This is a rush transcript from "Your World," January 25, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I'm very proud to announce today that we have reached a deal to end the shutdown and reopen the federal government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEIL CAVUTO, HOST: Thirty-five days in, the shutdown looks to be done, the Senate and House expected to approve, maybe as soon as later tonight, a shutdown that had been the longest in our nation's history. But it isn't all history.

Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto.

And we're all over this fast-moving drama that hasn't technically ended yet with Republican Senator Kevin Cramer on what led to it, Democratic congressman Eric Swalwell on if he plans to vote for it, and Home Depot co- founder Bernie Marcus on the financial fallout from it.

First, FOX team coverage with John Roberts at the White House and Mike Emanuel on Capitol Hill.

We begin with John -- John.

JOHN ROBERTS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Neil, good afternoon to you.

The president tried for 35 days to break the Democrats, and could not break them. They held together. And so the president was the one who had to back down today and say that, we're going to open government.

But he did get in negotiations over the last 24 hours from the Democrats a pledge to negotiate on border security. But it strikes me that Nancy Pelosi had been offering that for a number of weeks. I don't know if the president got any more of a commitment from the Democrats to include funding for a border wall.

But White House officials told me that there are a number of Democrats who do seem inclined to give the president some money for a border barrier, much of which would be built off of the Rio Grande, out of the floodplain, in the state of Texas.

But the president also threatening that, if the Democrats don't give him what he wants, he has got some options that he will definitely use.

Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We really have no choice but to build a powerful wall or steel barrier. If we don't get a fair deal from Congress, the government will either shut down on February 15 again, or I will use the powers afforded to me under the laws and the Constitution of the United States to address this emergency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: And that would likely include a declaration of a federal emergency. The Office of Management and Budget has identified several billion dollars that could be put toward wall construction.

But what's ironic about what the president said today is that Lindsey Graham, senator from South Carolina, suggested to the president exactly the same thing on "FOX News Sunday" with Chris Wallace back on January the 13th, and the president politely refused and said, thanks very much, but I want money for a border wall in any kind of funding bill.

The president also was kind of changing the sales pitch that he's got for this. He was talking about a concrete wall across the southern border. Then he was talking about a steel barrier. Now he's changed that to a greater degree to say, well, this isn't just steel and wire. This is -- this is also electronics. This is technology. Call it a smart wall.

Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The walls we are building are not medieval walls. They are smart walls designed to meet the needs of front-line border agents. We do not need 2,000 miles of concrete wall from sea to shiny sea. We never did. We never proposed that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: And what's ironic about that, Neil, is, just a week ago, President Trump said yes, the wall is medieval, it worked back then, and it will work again now.

But he's trying to sell this idea to Democrats, and as he gets into three weeks of intense negotiations, using a conference committee format, which Chuck Schumer just a moment ago seemed to think might be something that would yield fruit.

He wants to try to get as much agreement as he can, because he really wants a border barrier, because if he doesn't get it, the base is going to say, well, wait a minute. You promised this all during the campaign and now you're not delivering on it.

So he's going to use now whatever sales pitch he can to try to get agreement on a border barrier. But it's pretty clear -- and Chuck Schumer Nancy Pelosi let this be known in a press conference they just wrapped up - - that the president lost on this round -- Neil.

CAVUTO: John Roberts at the White House, thank you, my friend.

To Mike Emanuel now on Capitol Hill -- Mike.

MIKE EMANUEL, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Neil, good afternoon to you.

So now the work begins. We do expect the Congress will pass this deal to fund the government for three more weeks in short order. When there is agreement here on Capitol Hill, things tend to move very quickly. So we expect the Senate to send it to the House, the House to send it to the president to sign, so that this government shutdown will end at five weeks' long, 35 days.

Then the hard work begins, three weeks to sit down and try to hammer on an agreement on border security. I have talked to numerous people on both sides of the aisle who say they are open to updating, upgrading our security at our southern border. Some will not go there for a physical barrier. Some would prefer drones and technology or manpower on the border.

It'll be interesting to see if then the president could sell that to his base as a 21st century wall. We will watch and see.

Bottom line, both sides are saying all the right things at the moment, that they're willing to sit down and talk, to negotiate on going forward on border security. But three weeks is not a lot of time, when you consider weekends and lawmakers going out of town back to go visit with their constituents.

So it'll be a challenge ahead in the coming three weeks. But when there are deadlines, sometimes, there can be action -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Thank you very much, Mike Emanuel.

Now to the man who was responsible for a Senate pickup by Republicans when he beat Heidi Heitkamp. I'm talking about North Dakota Republican Senator Kevin Cramer, now a member of the Budget Committee.

Senator, welcome to you, and a belated congratulations on my part.

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER, R-N.D.: Thank you.

CAVUTO: Would you vote for what you have heard?

CRAMER: I will vote for what -- for what I have heard, and largely because this president is proposing it and is willing to sign it.

And I have said all along I'm happy to vote for bill that reopens the government that the president is willing to sign. If he's going to veto it, obviously, there's no point in even having the vote.

CAVUTO: All right, you got a three-week window here.

CRAMER: Yes.

CAVUTO: The president is going to say, if he doesn't get some funding for a wall, we could be revisiting this all over again. What do you think of that?

CRAMER: Well, I think that the president has positioned himself for victory.

I think that he has been generous in his negotiating up to this point with himself, because he's been negotiating both on his behalf and Speaker Pelosi's behalf by being quite flexible, honestly. And I think that, you know, the reports that you just had from -- from your reporters here on the Hill outlined that history.

And he has moved, and he's moved, and he's moved, and to the point now where he's willing to do the three-week C.R. But he is -- I think we should take him very seriously. He has this power under the Constitution and the statute for -- to declare an emergency.

And I would expect he will do that if we don't do something in the proper way.

CAVUTO: Well, he has had that power the last 35 days. He never implemented it, for whatever reason.

What makes you think that he would in three weeks?

CRAMER: Well, I think some things have changed, a couple of them.

And one of them, Neil, is that we had a Senate vote last night. As you know, yesterday...

CAVUTO: Right.

CRAMER: ... we voted on two bills. I think call them test votes, if you would like, but that -- we had to get that done.

He saw the reality of the outcome. And we now are on our second day -- or second round of employees not getting paid. We're starting to see the aggregated, maybe even synergistic consequences of a shutdown.

So, you know, a lot of things are different. But I'd also say this, that, after yesterday's vote, it was clear that many Democrats, at least my colleagues, Democratic colleagues in the Senate, are willing to talk about a wall, and even support some version barrier with dollars.

And I think we should be encouraged by that.

CAVUTO: Do you think that, you know, linking this to the continued operation of the government, whether it's this president doing it or other presidents, that we have got to find a better way?

CRAMER: We have got to.

CAVUTO: This is not the way to do things?

CRAMER: No, it's not.

Neil, in fact, we have got to get rid of this weaponization of the budget and using government shutdowns. I'm committed to that. I signed on to Rob Portman's bill just today. Other members did as well that weren't previously on it.

There's a lot of discussion. We will be talking about it, no doubt, in the Budget Committee, within days, if not a couple of weeks. And we have got to -- we have got to remove this -- this weapon from the arsenal.

CAVUTO: Senator, thank you very, very much, Senator Kevin Cramer of North Dakota, remember, a crucial pickup there.

CRAMER: Thank you.

CAVUTO: Now, there are a lot of people wondering why did and how did the president get to this point?

Now, many are pointing to the nation's -- well, to the nation's skies and the delays that were building up at some of the nation's airports, with TSA workers calling out, a shortage of air traffic controllers.

David Lee Miller is at La Guardia Airport in New York City with more on that front -- David lee.

DAVID LEE MILLER, CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Neil.

We're in Terminal B here at La Guardia Airport. And even though the partial ground halt ended about four-plus hours ago, there are still very significant delays.

The arrivals here at La Guardia Airport delayed about an hour-and-a-half. The departures are delayed, we are told, about one hour. But this is bigger than La Guardia Airport. There are other airports also affected by the events today, including specifically Newark, Philadelphia and Boston, the impact essentially rippling through the air transport system.

We are told, according to FlightAware, that the number of delays today reaching more than 14,000, also now, the number of cancellations 861 nationwide, the FAA blaming an increase in sick leave at two facilities for what took place today, those facilities located in St. Petersburg, Florida, and Washington, D.C.

The FAA says those facilities are responsible for monitoring aircraft at high altitudes. The president of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, speaking just a short time ago with Dana Perino on "The Daily Briefing," said his membership is very relieved at President Trump's announcement about the ending of the partial government shutdown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL RINALDI, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS ASSOCIATION: Absolutely. It's euphoria. They have been going through some struggling times.

And I have heard some really sad stories of decisions that had to be made, you know, parsing out your medication, to putting food on the table. I can't afford to come to work. I can't fill up my gas tanks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MILLER: And we talked to a number of travelers here at La Guardia Airport, Neil, and the consensus seems to be they have sympathy for the air traffic controllers. Many passengers we talked to pointing their fingers at the politicians in Washington -- Neil.

CAVUTO: David Lee Miller, thank you very, very much.

All right, take a quick break here.

Let's take a look at the corner of Wall and Broad here. Stocks are up about 184 points.

I hasten to add here they were never moved by what was going on with this 35-day-old shutdown.

In fact, through that period, since this all started, the Dow's up north of 11 percent, same with the S&P 500, Nasdaq, all advancing on the belief that this was not the kind of noise, as painful as it was to those directly affected, including federal government workers, disruptions in air travel and all that, but that the fundamentals were sound, that this would be short-lived, and life would go on.

That is the fifth week in a row we have seen the markets advance, something we have not seen since back in August.

We will have more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER STONE, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: At the crack of dawn, 29 FBI agents arrived at my home with 17 vehicles with their lights flashing, when they could simply have contacted my attorneys, and I would have been more than willing to surrender voluntarily.

They terrorized my wife, my dogs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: Former Trump adviser Roger Stone indicted on seven charges that go from anywhere from obstruction of justice to witness tampering, making false statements.

But if he looks like a guy concerned, he a funny way of showing it, earlier today indicating that he was going to fight this, that there was nothing to these charges, that the president was and remains a friend for the better part of 30 years, that he's not expecting a pardon, isn't looking for one.

Let's get the read on a little this from former Justice Department official, current law professor over at Cal Berkeley, John Yoo.

John, good to have you back.

Can you hear me, John?

JOHN YOO, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes.

CAVUTO: Oh, OK. Good.

What did you make of this and the significance of this indictment today?

YOO: Well, Neil, first, there's two points I would like to make. One is that I think Stone is guilty. I think Mueller has him dead to rights.

But, two, it's not guilty of actually conspiring with the Russians or with Julian Assange and WikiLeaks. What he's guilty of is lying to Congress. And on that, he's -- it's not, I think, a question of intention or misunderstandings.

He was asked directly by Congress, did you contact WikiLeaks? did you work through one or two other people? Did you text them? Did you e-mail them? And Mr. Stone said no, flatly no.

And then Mueller has e-mails and texts that Stone was continuously sending, trying to get in touch with WikiLeaks.

The second point, though, that's important to observe here is, there's there's still no evidence that Mueller has uncovered of any kind of conspiracy between Trump or the Trump campaign and with the Russians and with WikiLeaks directly.

If you look at the indictment closely, it looks like Stone is just trying to get his nose in the middle of things. He's trying -- he's bothering WikiLeaks all the time, saying, please give me some information. Tell me what you have. Tell me you're going to drop something out in the public.

But WikiLeaks doesn't really respond. It seems like they're keeping an arm's length. I don't think actually Stone did anything illegal, if he just told the truth to Congress.

CAVUTO: How big a deal will that be for him, though, if all the other allegations or issues and counts are not really cutting to the core as much as that, the one that you mentioned, lying to Congress? What is he looking at?

YOO: Yes.

Well, still, it's a serious crime lying to Congress under oath. We call that in the Justice Department and world of prosecutors, it's a process crime, not the substance, conspiring with the Russians.

But the FBI and the Justice Department actually try to make a point of going after people who lie to them, who lie to Congress, because, if people don't voluntarily tell you the truth, our whole justice system could collapse. People will not cooperate.

CAVUTO: But why did they do it this way, though, John?

I mean, I know they have gone and raided Paul Manafort's home to get documents, and that sort of thing. They did the same with Michael Cohen. But they never essentially arrested a guy and took him in this -- in this manner. And I'm wondering how it was that Roger Stone got that distinction.

YOO: Neil, it's a good question.

This is the part of it I really don't like, was the heavy-handed way of arresting Stone, treating him essentially the same way you might treat a dangerous fugitive or potentially violent criminal. This is an old guy. He likes to conspire. He likes to send e-mails. He likes to talk on the phone. He's not a violent guy.

CAVUTO: He had telegraphed this himself, that he was convinced he would be charged with something, right?

YOO: Yes. Yes.

And some -- yes, sometimes, prosecutors and the FBI, they can make a deal, and they will say, why don't you voluntarily appear at our office or at the courthouse and turn yourself in?

CAVUTO: Yes.

YOO: That's what you do with people that you respect.

But they want to make a show of. This is -- that's what -- when people lie to Congress and the FBI, they want to make a show of hauling them in like a common criminal, so that people won't lie in the future.

CAVUTO: You mentioned show, John. And this might be outside the normal parameters of questioning here.

But CNN had footage of this, you know, takedown earlier this morning. Do you think someone tipped them off?

YOO: Oh, of course.

I mean, these things are always telegraphed ahead of time. We call -- you have probably seen it, Neil, before with Wall Street guys, right?

CAVUTO: Absolutely.

YOO: When they are arrested by...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: With Rudy Giuliani, I remember, in the days of going after all those insider trading guys and the rest, yes.

YOO: Rudy -- Rudy was a master of it.

We called -- quote, unquote -- "the perp walk." Perp walk doesn't actually have any effect unless there's a media there to record it.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: I guess you're right.

YOO: So, of course they're -- you know, you're the ones who make the perp walk possible.

CAVUTO: No, you're right.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: But I do notice in all of these people who have been brought in, from a Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort, obviously Roger Stone, George Papadopoulos, Alex van der Zwaan, Michael Flynn, Rick Gates, variations of lying, lying to the FBI, lying to investigators, lying to Congress, very few with direct Russian tie collusion charges, but mostly about lying.

YOO: Yes.

I think that's -- I hope, if people remember one thing from today, it's that almost all the crimes that Mueller has gone forward with the very top people, Stone, Manafort, Flynn, the people you have mentioned, it's mostly been for lying.

And that's what goes to the lesson of the Washington scandal. It's always the cover-up that's worse than the original conspiracy. If people had just told the truth, if Manafort and Stone weren't playing games, they wouldn't be going to jail.

CAVUTO: That's well-put. And other people forget that.

John Yoo, thank. Very, very good catching up with you.

YOO: Thanks, Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, so where does that investigation go? Well, where right now do we go after a shutdown that presumably ends sometime tonight?

We're going to be crunching all of that live, of course, tomorrow, when "Cavuto Live" hits the air at 10:00 a.m. Eastern time.

But ahead of that, Bernie Marcus, who weighs in on economic impacts of confusing signals -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo addressing reporters right now on the crisis in Venezuela.

Let's listen.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: This critical work will get started right away.

Tomorrow, he will travel with me to the U.N. Security Council, where the United States has called a long overdue meeting to urge other nations to support Venezuelans' democratic transition.

Elliott's long career in foreign affairs includes a great deal of time as a senior leader -- leader in this very organization. Under President Reagan, he served as assistant secretary of state for human rights and humanitarian affairs and assistant secretary for Inter-American affairs as well.

Under President George W. Bush, he served on the National Security Council as the senior director for democracy, human rights and international affairs, senior director for North America -- North African and Near East affairs, and deputy national security adviser for global democracy strategy.

Elliott's passion for the rights and liberties of all peoples makes him a perfect fit and a valuable and timely addition.

This week, the Venezuelan people have rejected former president Maduro's illegitimate rule. Consistent with Venezuela's constitution and with the support of the Venezuelan people and the National Assembly, Juan Guaido has declared himself the interim president of Venezuela.

These are -- just the first step on Venezuela's road to liberty. Elliott will be a true asset to our mission to help the Venezuelan people fully restore democracy and prosperity to their country.

On this issue and all others, he is eager to advance President Trump's agenda and promote the ideals and interests of the American people.

And now, Elliott, would you like to say a few words?

ELLIOTT ABRAMS, FORMER DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Thank you.

Very briefly, I left this building 30 years ago this week, last time I worked here. So it's very nice to be back.

This crisis in Venezuela is deep and difficult and dangerous. And I can't wait to get to work on it. Thank you.

POMPEO: Thanks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys, we have got time for a question or two.

(OFF-MIKE) Bloomberg.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, can you talk in a little more detail about what Abrams will be doing? What will his first task be? What will his chief focus be? Will he travel to the region?

And, also, can you talk a little bit about some of the -- what will happen to Venezuela's overseas assets, for example, the gold that it has in the Bank of England, money it has an overseas accounts? Will the expectation be that the interim president would have control over those funds?

POMPEO: Well, as to your first question, Elliott will have responsibility for all things related to our efforts to restore democracy in Venezuela.

It's a global challenge. There are multiple dimensions to how we hope to assist the Venezuelans in achieving democracy there, and he will be responsible for leading that effort.

We have an enormous team here that's done truly remarkable work to date to get us to the point we are at today, and they've done this over certainly my eight months, but long preceding that as well. I'm incredibly proud of the work that our State Department team has done to date.

Elliott will now lead our effort that relates directly to our efforts on behalf of the Venezuelan people.

I would expect, though, that his first task will be to get up to speed and then travel with me to New York tomorrow morning for the U.N. Security Council meeting.

And after that, I couldn't tell you where it will take him. Wouldn't surprise me if he ends up traveling to the region, but what -- the road ahead will be driven by the demands of the Venezuelan people and how we can assist them in achieving the outcome that America wants them to achieve.

QUESTION: And on the overseas assets?

POMPEO: On the overseas assets, we'll have announcements from other places later today talking about how it is that we anticipate the interim President Juan Guaido will have the resources he needs to lead the Government of Venezuela forward.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's take a question from South America, so NTN.

Gustau, please.

QUESTION: NTN 24, Gustau Alegret.

Among the countries that has not recognized Juan Guaido as president are Mexico and Uruguay, and both countries has offered their diplomacies in order to help in the crisis.

Is the U.S. thinking to work with them, or is the U.S. asking them to recognize Guaido? What's the position of the State Department with these two countries?

POMPEO: Well, we think every country ought to recognize the constitutional leader of Venezuela, and that's who the United States has concluded Juan Guaido is, the interim president of Venezuela.

We think every country ought to recognize the Venezuelan constitution, the demands of the Venezuelan people.

So whether it is Mexico or Uruguay or any other country, we hope to work with them to achieve the sense that we can ultimately have a free and fair election in Venezuela, where the voices of the Venezuelan people who, under the Maduro regime, have been starved, enormous medical and humanitarian situation in Colombia, more than a million refugees have fled the horrors of the Maduro regime.

We'll work with all nations to try and achieve that outcome. We think every country ought to take steps towards achieving that, and not side with this cruel dictator in Venezuela who has caused so much devastation for the people of Venezuela.

CAVUTO: All right, you have been listening to the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, Elliott Abrams, a seasoned American diplomat, who will take the helm dealing with Venezuela, a country whose leader right now, Nicolas Maduro, we will not recognize. We have termed him a dictator.

We are backing Juan Guaido. He's sort of a populist opposition party leader who had declared himself the leader of the people and calling for elections in the near term.

Our government recognizes him, as does Canada and most of the Western Hemisphere countries, save Mexico.

But the military is remaining, at least the military generals, are remaining loyal to Nicolas Maduro. He's got the backing of Russia, China, Turkey, and Cuba as well.

Our administration has said that's not going to fly. He's a dictator. He's brutal. The country is suffering. Three million have left, 10 million-plus percent inflation. It's got to go. He's got to go.

Maduro himself has said all American diplomats are going to be thrown out of the country. President Trump shot back, no, they're not going anywhere.

So, this back and forth continues, and it will heat up tomorrow, when the secretary of state will be at the United Nations addressing this very urgent matter.

Reaction right now from, among other issues he will raise, Home Depot co- founder Bernie Marcus.

Do you think, Bernie -- and forgive me for going with this breaking news, your reaction to it -- standing by the Venezuelan people, as we say we are, by not standing by this guy who has not represented them?

What do you -- what do you say?

BERNIE MARCUS, CO-FOUNDER, HOME DEPOT: Well, no -- I -- look -- look, I have read about it.

And Maduro has got a record that's pretty bad. He's a dictator, without a question. He is supported by every dictatorship for -- country around, China, Russia, Turkey. You name the authoritarian governments, I mean, all the people that we disagree with are supporting him.

So, it's really the good against the bad, democracy against the tough guys. And we're going to see who's going to win. This is going to be a tough battle. This could be very tough.

CAVUTO: No, I think you're right.

You know, what is interesting? If you follow the saga -- and you know it well -- of that region and particularly what happened to Venezuela, it had so many riches. It was so rich in oil, on a per capita basis for a while in the '80s among the richest countries on that basis on Earth.

And they squandered through it all, on a government that assured all the great assurances that began with Hugo Chavez and ended with this bedlam that we have now.

MARCUS: Well, what a great, what a great example for the American people to look at what is happening in America today.

Cuba is the perfect example of socialism gone wrong. They exported it to Argentina. They took a great country. They put it right down the drain in every way possible. People are starving to death. Medical is not available for them.

And we have a group of people in Washington today, new representatives especially, that look at socialism as the way to go. And if you don't think that's dangerous, Neil, I do. I think it's a very, very severe danger. And they don't...

CAVUTO: So, you're talking about people like Congresswoman Cortez, who is talking about a top rate of 70 percent, and others who have been advocating that the super rich pay a percentage of their wealth to the government. Elizabeth Warren is leading that charge.

MARCUS: Yes.

CAVUTO: But it does seem to be a common theme among prominent Democrats. That worries you?

MARCUS: Yes.

Well, let me tell you, it comes right out of the universities. You see students graduating today, and a very high percentage of the students -- and, by the way, this is a -- this is a fact. They did a survey of it.

Almost 50 percent of students coming out of university today believe that socialism is the answer. That's frightening to me, because the things that made this country great, that created the wealth of this country, and I mean the wealth for every single person right down the line, the best medical care in the world, the best housing in the world -- that's why people want to come here is because of the system.

And that's the free enterprise system. And you have the universities teaching these people socialism. You have Bernie Sanders out there. You have Elizabeth Warren.

You think that there's danger over the hills. I'm one of the American people, and I'm talking about all the people that don't watch FOX and don't read The Wall Street Journal, but read The New York Times and every other newspaper around the country, watch NBC and CBS.

I don't think they're getting this message at all. And I don't think they understand what -- how the brink -- where we're standing today, on the brink of a disaster.

CAVUTO: Well, they go -- they go back and say there was a time with those higher rates -- let me just give you their spin on this -- and we did OK.

And then I'm thinking about you and Ken Langone, when you founded Home Depot, we had those 70-percent plus top rates. We had much higher taxes. And you guys started Home Depot in a pretty iffy economic environment.

So they might come back and listen to you and say, well, he did just fine under that system.

MARCUS: Yes, but the system changed.

Hey, look, the best example of that is Kennedy. I mean, Kennedy realized that high taxes were going to kill America. Look at England, U.K., before Margaret Thatcher came in. That country was...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: But he still kept them high.

I mean, the taxes that Kennedy had -- I mean, you're right. He did bring it down from the 90s, and we were suddenly in the high 60s when all was said and done. But they're much higher than they are down.

MARCUS: And then Reagan brought it down.

CAVUTO: Absolutely, absolutely.

MARCUS: Yes, but Reagan...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: But do you worry -- do you worry that they come back and say, we didn't have this vast chasm, divide between the rich and poor back then, and that's when rates were much higher? You say?

MARCUS: No.

I think, number one, they don't look at history. I think they have no clue what history has shown, because, if they look at history, they will see it doesn't work.

And, by the way, we're part of history today. History, the now, where are we today? Today, we have the best prosperity in the world. We have the lowest unemployment in the world. We have more people working than ever before. Job Creators Network has helped get a tax cut that's all the way down for small businesses.

Unemployment for blacks and Hispanics is at the lowest level ever in the history of this country. So, why -- you don't have to go back far. Go back to right here, right now. Why would you want to take that formula, where there's prosperity, where jobs are out there for people, where people could pay their own way, take care of the family, why would you want to change that?

What do you do, take dumb pills every morning? I mean, that's probably what they do.

CAVUTO: All right. So you're not looking forward to see what's going to come of this.

I don't think, given the numbers and the fact that Democrats only control the House, they don't control the Senate or the presidency, but this populist pitch does resonate with a lot of folks. How do you defend that, as a rich guy, that the system is just fine?

MARCUS: Well, I don't -- I like -- I like you to not think of me as a rich guy.

Remember, I grew up in a tenement in Newark, New Jersey, on the fourth floor.

CAVUTO: I understand that, but you're quite rich now.

MARCUS: So, so...

(LAUGHTER)

MARCUS: I'm rich today because I broke my back getting there, Neil.

CAVUTO: Absolutely.

MARCUS: And you know what? Everybody in America should have the opportunity to get to where I am.

But, more importantly, more importantly was the millions of people that have their jobs because of the Home Depot. I'm talking about millions of people...

CAVUTO: OK.

MARCUS: ... who are supporting their family.

So, look, the economy is great.

CAVUTO: OK.

MARCUS: I think that we have to maintain it where it is, and that's where it is.

CAVUTO: It's such a great country that you and Ken started this gazillion- dollar enterprise when neither of you were remotely handy. So, touche to you.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: All right.

MARCUS: OK.

CAVUTO: Thank you very much, Bernie.

All right, let's get the read on all these developments right now from the House Intelligence Committee member, a guy closely scrutinized in the presidential sweepstakes as well, I might point out, Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell.

Congressman, always good to have you.

REP. ERIC SWALWELL, D-CALIF.: Good afternoon, Neil.

CAVUTO: I want to touch on the shutdown issue, but, real quickly, your reaction to Bernie Marcus, the Home Depot co-founder, who's worried that your party and some of the ideas for much, much higher taxes is going to kill this recovery. What do you say?

SWALWELL: Well, I come from a generation that has been let down by big institutions.

We were falsely led into the Iraq War. We saw the financial collapse take away our parents' pensions. Student loan debt has so many of us in financial quicksand that I too, just like he, wants to believe that every kid who works hard can become anything and dream bigger for the next generation.

But wages aren't going up for most people, when you add in the cost of living around them. So we want to make sure opportunity is not just on the top floor, but on the bottom floor.

But I'm also someone who believes in capitalism. I just want to make sure that we're not dividing success in this country, but multiplying it everywhere it could go. So...

CAVUTO: All right, so you would be for higher taxes on the wealthy, maybe not Congresswoman Cortez's higher taxes at 70 percent, but you're open to that?

SWALWELL: Yes, but also going back and looking at the capital gains tax, which has kind of been a way to mask income for some of the wealthiest Americans.

CAVUTO: Understood.

What about a wealth tax, Congressman, like Elizabeth Warren is talking about, like Kamala Harris is talking about? It does seem to be a pattern.

SWALWELL: Yes, so I do believe that those who are the wealthiest and enjoy the economic resources of this country should pay their fair share.

But, again, I think it's not about...

CAVUTO: So, they're not paying their fair share now, if they're paying the top -- the top 50 percent are paying the majority of the taxes, that they're not paying enough?

SWALWELL: I don't believe they are.

But what I would have done in this last tax bill, Neil, especially for corporations, because I want our corporations to compete, especially small businesses, I would have brought down the corporate tax rate to a lower point and tie it to companies that have profit-sharing and equity-sharing.

So you can have a lower corporate tax rate if the employees who are -- just through their grit and hard work are delivering for the company, are guaranteed that they're going to see some of those benefits, because the last tax cut didn't make its way -- there was no guarantee it would make its way to the majority of the work force.

CAVUTO: But a lot of people got bonus checks and did get some of the things you have alluded to, but not enough, is that basically what you're saying?

SWALWELL: Right. I don't think it was enough.

CAVUTO: All right.

SWALWELL: And, again, I -- not for redistribution. I want to make that clear.

CAVUTO: I understand.

SWALWELL: I'm for reinvestment and rebuilding in America.

CAVUTO: So, if you do run for president -- I know last time you with were me, you said you were considering it -- how would you distinguish yourself from all the others, who do seem to have built into their campaign DNA higher taxes on business, the wealthy, you name it?

SWALWELL: Well, I lived the promise of America through two parents, a dad who was a cop, a mom who worked odd jobs, and believed that, if they worked hard, we would do better.

But what I see -- and being connected to everyday folks today -- my wife and I have two young kids under 2. I have got about $85,000 in student loan debt myself.

I see an entire generation that's not getting ahead. They're just getting by. And so I think being connected to that experience, that American struggle helps me, I think, project out what the solutions can be.

CAVUTO: Congressman, let's talk about the shutdown right now. I guess there are going to be votes, maybe as soon as tonight, on ending all of this.

SWALWELL: I hope.

CAVUTO: The president still wants in the next three weeks you guys to consider a wall or funding for a wall.

Would you?

SWALWELL: I will consider anything we can do that efficiently and wisely makes our country safer, without losing who we are.

CAVUTO: All right, well, that is not what I asked.

Would you consider...

SWALWELL: Not a wall.

CAVUTO: ... funding for a wall?

(CROSSTALK)

SWALWELL: And, again, a wall to me, Neil, is contiguous.

CAVUTO: I understand.

But would you then share the view that Nancy Pelosi had that a wall is immoral?

SWALWELL: I believe a contiguous wall is an immoral symbol of America.

CAVUTO: That's not what I asked.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: A wall -- she said a wall, just -- just in general was immoral, now, even though she voted for wall funding when Barack Obama was president prior.

SWALWELL: Yes.

CAVUTO: But, having said that, I'm not here to pick or distinguish that.

I'm just wondering, do you agree with that? Because Steny Hoyer did not, nor did he have a problem, for example, with the president giving his State of the Union address in the well of the House.

So, do all -- are all you on the same page on this stuff?

SWALWELL: Yes.

As described by Donald Trump, his wall, I think, is immoral. But I want to give you an example.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: What is immoral about his wall?

SWALWELL: Because surrounding -- putting a wall sea to shining sea and separating America from the world...

CAVUTO: But he's not. He's not going to put it across the whole 2,000 miles.

SWALWELL: He -- he really hasn't articulated where he needs it. And we have pressed him in these meetings, show us the vulnerabilities. Are you - - are you going to put a wall up against the Rio Grande? Is that where the wall is going to go?

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Well, he's already made it clear that it's not going to go every inch of every of the 2,000 miles it's going to go.

SWALWELL: I don't know if he's made it clear, Neil.

I would welcome clarity.

CAVUTO: All right, but if he's already said that, and you want clarity on that, then you would be open for some of this?

SWALWELL: I want to give you an example, because I'm standing in the Capitol.

And if you think about walls, if I asked you, Neil, is there a wall that surrounds the Capitol, if you wanted to make sure that people weren't coming in who shouldn't be in here, the answer would be, no, there's not a wall around the Capitol. But are there police officers? Are there video cameras? Are there barrier checkpoints? Yes.

And is the Capitol at any risk of an invasion? I don't think most people think it is.

And so I think you can have a country that is open and welcoming...

CAVUTO: But in your state along the border, between San Diego and, let's say, Tijuana, there is a wall, right?

SWALWELL: There are...

CAVUTO: And that one seems to be working like a charm, right?

SWALWELL: The security -- well, the president doesn't think so.

I think that we could beef up Border Patrol agents, more technology, check the port of entries where drugs are coming across.

CAVUTO: But that's an effective wall. That's actually an effective wall.

SWALWELL: It's not a contiguous wall, as the president describes.

CAVUTO: I understand.

(CROSSTALK)

SWALWELL: It's effective, though. What you are describing is effective.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: I don't mean to argue over semantics, Congressman.

SWALWELL: Yes. Yes.

CAVUTO: But this is what it comes down to.

(CROSSTALK)

SWALWELL: Yes, but we're agreeing. We're agreeing, Neil.

CAVUTO: There's a difference between wall, contiguous.

SWALWELL: Yes.

CAVUTO: You don't find a wall itself to be immoral. Yet -- so we're arguing over silly stuff, right?

SWALWELL: I think -- but I think you and I agree, because what you have described in Tijuana, I think, is effective.

But what I do not want to see is just hundreds of miles of wall. That is not the symbol of America.

CAVUTO: All right.

When are you going to announce for president?

SWALWELL: I'm getting close. I'm going to be in Iowa on Sunday and New Hampshire next week, and continue to listen to folks, and, again, offer a vision that goes big, is bold, and I believe does good.

So, hang tight.

CAVUTO: All right. All right, so you're going to announce it on this show, I guess, right?

(LAUGHTER)

SWALWELL: I think you're in the running.

CAVUTO: All right. We will see what happens.

SWALWELL: Yes.

CAVUTO: Seriously, Congressman, thank you.

SWALWELL: Neil, it's the only -- it's the only way my family would see the announcement, I think.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: All right, thank you very much, sir.

SWALWELL: Of course. All right.

CAVUTO: We always appreciate you coming on.

SWALWELL: See you.

CAVUTO: You take all types of questions. And that is rare.  All right, the Senate has already gone ahead and passed this measure that was put out today. The House is expected to do so shortly.

So, technically, the shutdown that's been going on for the better part of 35 days could end in a matter of hours.

We will have more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: One down, one to go.

Now it goes to the House, this measure to reopen the government, after having a shut down, or at least a quarter of it shut down, for the better part of 35 days. That's the longest that's ever happened.

You know how this goes. People in the media start sort of crunching things, saying, who blinked, who caved, who did what? And what were some of the factors behind today's move? Could it have been these delays and airport problems at La Guardia and elsewhere, where a lot of people were just seeing flights grounded as they were waiting through this and just a lot of people who were showing up in fewer numbers?

And that's why we had to have the delays.

RealClearPolitics' A.B. Stoddard, Trump 2020 Advisory Board member Madison Gesiotto, the Democratic strategist Kristen Hawn.

Kristen, ending with you.

The consensus read has been that the president blinked, he caved, he ended up agreeing to something that he could have signed off on 35 days ago. Is that your read?

KRISTEN HAWN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think that the president did the responsible thing.

People came together. It was clear from the votes yesterday in the Senate that neither package was going to pass in a way that was going to become law and go to the president's desk. He saw that.

And so now it's clear that -- it's funny. I was actually talking to you about this yesterday. When the Blue Dogs sent a letter -- and this is exactly what they said should happen. And it's happening right now, that both sides come together.

CAVUTO: Well, you take what you can, right? You take what you can.

So, Madison, let me ask you, because I could flip it around and say, to the president's credit, he wanted to be the adult, end this, he knew that it would be portrayed probably the way it is being portrayed in the media. Anything can happen in the next three weeks if he doesn't get some wall funding.

But what do you think of that, that he decided, maybe given some of these disruptions at the nation's airports and delays and home mortgages, with FHA funding sort of writing there, that he was just going to bite the bullet, take the hit and move on? What do you think?

MADISON GESIOTTO, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: I think the president made the responsible decision here.

And I think he did this in good faith, with the expectation that Congress will come together, put bipartisanship aside, and propose fair border security before February 15.

Of course, as he talked about in his speech, he is committed to this cause, and he will not give up if they don't propose something that goes through by February 15. He will either shut down the government again, or he will call a national emergency.

CAVUTO: I don't think he will do it.

GESIOTTO: And so he's not caving.

(CROSSTALK)

GESIOTTO: He's not -- he will.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: No, he won't.

GESIOTTO: And he's not caving on this commitment to this, Neil.

CAVUTO: I'm telling you, he won't. I'm telling you, he won't.

And maybe prove me wrong, we will dig up this tape again.

A.B. Stoddard, I think once burned, he is going to be more than twice shy. I don't know what will happen in these next three weeks, maybe get something that won't be exactly what he wants on a border wall or whatever it's going to be called. But I don't think he wants to go into that fire again. Do you?

A.B. STODDARD, REALCLEARPOLITICS: No way.

He's not going to shut the government down again. And the Democrats, after what just happened today, are not going to give him money for a wall. They might give him border security. But if he wants a wall, he's going to have to declare a national emergency.

CAVUTO: Do you think he would do that?

STODDARD: I -- I -- he's threatened to over and over and over again and said today he had an alternative, he doesn't want to use it. That's the alternative.

So I think it's still possible. I just think that this -- Neil, you and I talked about this yesterday as well. This was incompetent and it was pointless and it was damaging.

And I think that he was told by then Speaker Paul Ryan, then Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell in December, you cannot shut the government down. If you do, there will be no way out. And he did it anyway.

He declared on national television he was doing it and he wouldn't blame the Democrats. This was his shutdown. He's not going to do it again. He's going to have to find a way to climb down.

CAVUTO: Well, you know, Madison, we do know that it was a tension convention when these Republicans were gathering on Capitol Hill, and Vice President Pence was there, and apparently a couple of them -- it got pretty testy, that they didn't like being in this position.

Maybe that's just a feisty debate. But do you see, Madison, anything changing in the next three weeks? Would there be an olive branch to give him something, the president goes back and gives them something, or could we revisit this, or could we have a national emergency? What do you think?

GESIOTTO: I do think that we will see things change. And I think we have already seen some changes over the past 35 days.

Many Democrats have come forward, including a Democrat from Minnesota, Democrat from Michigan, Democrat from Virginia in the House that have come forward saying that they're absolutely willing to negotiate, acknowledging that walls work.

Of course, this isn't, as you talked about in a previous segment, not going to be a sea-to-shining-sea wall, as many people want people to believe in the media.

This is going to be invulnerable areas. This is something that Democrats have agreed to in the past. This is something we should all support. This isn't really a bipartisan issue, as much as the media wants it to be.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: And A.B. and I had gotten into this yesterday.

But, Kristen, one of the things that I found that a lot of Democrats were leery of saying that this was immoral, a wall was immoral and all that, and they -- they -- they wanted to back away from that too.

What do you think?

STODDARD: Yes.

I mean, I don't think that a lot of Democrats agreed with the idea that it was immoral.

I think that the Democrats that I work with that are in the middle of the road -- and there are a lot of them after the last midterms -- that have always said that walls may work in certain points and in certain vulnerable areas, but it needs to be a full-scale, comprehensive approach.

The dollar number has never been the problem. It's our approach and making sure that we have got the technology.

CAVUTO: All right, we will see what happens. Maybe -- hope springs eternal -- they solve all of this.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: More after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, the Senate has approved this. Now the House, what happens?

Let's go through the process, what we know of it.

Chad Pergram, what do you think, bud?

CHAD PERGRAM, CORRESPONDENT: Well, at 6:30, the House of Representatives is going to come back into session.

And this is a fait accompli now. The Senate has moved, and now the House will move in about the next hour-and-a-half to synch up. Then the House and Senate will be in alignment, and they can send the bill to the president for his signature. At that point, the government shutdown will in fact be over, at least until the middle of February.

We asked Kevin McCarthy, the House majority leader -- or the minority leader, I should say -- earlier if he thought there would be any objections. He said no.

Now, here's something that's going to be key. The sidecar to this agreement deals with going to conference, a conference committee. This is where you get members from the House and the Senate together in a room. And what they're going to do is work out a -- try to work out a separate deal on border security, maybe immigration, all those types of things that have been so toxic in this discussion.

One of the keys is, who do they appoint to the conference committee? Now, Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House, she will be key to that. And who sits on that conference committee is going to be A number one.

And, two, can they get something done by the middle of February? Congress works best on deadlines. And, Neil, yet again, they have another deadline, or otherwise we could be right back where we are, where we have been since really the middle of December.

CAVUTO: What got the president to do what he did? Are you hearing that a lot of it had to do with these other ancillary that weren't so ancillary issues, like the delays at the nation's airports, grounded flights, et cetera?

What got him to change?

PERGRAM: Well, you had the issue of the second round of paychecks not going out.

And, as you say, there were these other factors with air travel delays, things that affect the business community, IPO debuts. They couldn't roll out the farm bill.

But, at the end of the day, they were just starting to get hammered. And you had Senate Republicans starting to get very antsy, saying, wait a minute, this isn't the best road to go down, Mr. President, let's try to figure this out soon.

CAVUTO: All right, Chad, great reporting on all this.

PERGRAM: Thank you.

CAVUTO: We shall see tonight, I guess an hour-and-a-half, how this all proceeds.

And then it could technically, technically, mean that the longest government shutdown is over.

We will have more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: You know, this is why we are live on weekends, a "Cavuto Live" special tomorrow, with all these crosscurrent developments, Arizona Republican Congressman Andy Biggs, House Democratic Chief Deputy Whip Dan Kildee.

We have also got the former Whitewater prosecutor Robert Ray, and also the attorney, the attorney who is suing the NFL over that blown call in the Rams-Saints game. Do you think he has a prayer?

See what I just did there? Does he have a prayer?

Two hours of that, 10:00 a.m. to noon tomorrow, all basic cable, all for you.

We will see you tomorrow.

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