'Special Report' All-Star Panel on potential Russian military action against Ukraine

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Biden must put down red line with Russia: Hewitt

Talk radio host Hugh Hewitt, Democrat strategist Leslie Marshall and Wall Street Journal's Kimberly Strassel address U.S. concern with Russia threatening to invade Ukraine.

This is a rush transcript from "Special Report," December 6, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER: How concerned are you that Russia this time is not bluffing?

LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: They have invaded before. We are certainly committed to helping Ukraine defend its sovereign territory.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you accept Putin's red line on Ukraine.

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't accept anybody's red line.

JOHN RATCLIFFE, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: The United States could end up on the wrong end of a two-on-one fast break. If Russia moved on Ukraine and China moved on Taiwan, again, those things, I think, are a ripple effect of what happened in Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER: Hot spots, the border with Ukraine as Russia builds up troops there. Taiwan, as China flies air wings over that territory.

Let's bring in our panel, Leslie Marshall, Democratic strategist, Hugh Hewitt, syndicated talk radio host, and Kimberley Strassel, a member of the editorial board at "The Wall Street Journal." Hugh, let me start with you. First of all, welcome to SPECIAL REPORT.

HUGH HEWITT, TALK RADIO HOST: Thank you, Bret.

BAIER: Your thoughts on this moment when we get ready to see President Biden meet virtually with Russian leader Vladimir Putin tomorrow. What could he say that makes the Russians back off?

HEWITT: It's a moment of peril, Bret. I think he needs to say very clearly that we will strike back against any aggressive action beyond what you have already done in Ukraine. I read the transcript of your interview with Secretary of Defense Austin who said he didn't want to publish red lines. He thought it was never a good idea to do that. I think President Biden has to lay down a red line or we'll have a repeat of 2014 under President Obama when President Putin ordered the invasion, successful of Ukraine, seizing the Crimea.

If they are not specific about what will happen following such an invasion, I expect Vladimir Putin to take as aggressive an action if he thinks is he get away with it. He always has.

BAIER: Yes, Leslie, do you buy the argument, or the thought that Russia with Ukraine, China with Taiwan is this probing of the Biden administration and how far these countries can go?

LESLIE MARSHALL, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I do think both countries -- and I don't think they planned in cahoots to simultaneously poke the bear. But they are trying to poke the bear. So regardless of who is president and what they think, if they fear Joe Biden or not, they better fear the United States military, because Joe Biden would certainly, to support Ukraine and their sovereignty, would send troops. And we have the strongest military in the world, Russia knows that. China knows that.

Hugh, you and I rarely agree. We debated here in 2013 here in California in person and had a lot of fun. But I will agree with you on this. We need to be the one that puts down that red line. I agree when President Biden says that he will not accept others' red lines. And I do think this is the time for the president to shine, his bipartisan support to be tough and to support Ukraine. And in addition to that, he has a lot of experience with foreign policy and with foreign leaders and with people very much like Vladimir Putin.

BAIER: Kimberley, there are a lot of people, though, concerned in the U.S. that, let's say Ukraine was invited into NATO, or let's say the U.S. just pledged to support Ukraine in any action Russia took, that we would be somehow drawn in to another major conflict in a place that we, as a country, collectively don't particularly want to be, even though that may be in our international interests to help Ukraine as we would.

KIMBERLEY STRASSEL, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": If you look at Afghanistan, that would seem to be a position that the Biden administration particularly does not want to be given the haste with which it went to withdraw from that commitment, which, by the way, is probably behind this poking of the bear that Leslie is alluding to.

But there are other things that can be done, by the way, without fully sending troops, and things that Biden ought to be doing at the moment, including of the selling of military supplies to Ukraine, including lethal aid, and some very, very clear lines on very stiff international sanctions and particularly when it comes to banking if Russia were to make this move. There's plenty of things that could be done instead of just signing off on the Nord Stream pipeline.

BAIER: Hugh, what about the diplomatic ban of the Olympics that the administration is announcing today, which by the way, doesn't affect athletes going or not going. It means administration officials and VIP diplomats attending or not. And they wouldn't be in this ban.

HEWITT: It is better late than never. It is better something rather than nothing. But it's not nearly enough.

There is a genocide underway in China. It is a very gradual genocide. It involves a million people locked up in prison camps. It means a half million children separated from their families, forced sterilization of women, arbitrary and mandatory marriages of Han with Uyghur women. It is a genocide. Then Secretary of State Pompeo declared it, now Secretary of State Blinken has affirmed it.

So it shouldn't just be our diplomats. Our corporations should shot be going. We should not allow the profiting by that regime, the Chinese Communist Party and Xi Jinping, the new documents released by "The Wall Street Journal" over the last week prove that he authorized this genocide. I can't imagine that we want our companies involved with which that is the moral equivalent of what the Nazis did in the 40s, what happened in Rwanda, what happened in Syria, and what happened in Cambodia. It's a genocide. So a good first step. We need more.

BAIER: Yes, Leslie, I asked, and a piece of this aired in that little clip from my interview with the defense secretary. I said President Reagan back in 1983 called the Soviet Union the evil empire when talking about its communist goals. And was it time for the Biden administration to start talking about the CCP, the Chinese Communist Party and its communist ambitions and what it's planning to do in more clear terms? He said that they are starting, but it's been inching along, hasn't it?

MARSHALL: Yes, and this is another area where you have bipartisan support. Look, Americans love to hear any leader or somebody running to be the leader of this country to be tough on China and to go tough on China. As a Democrat, as a liberal, Hugh, I'm two for two with the human rights abuses that are just disgusting and the genocide that exists in China.

I will also go and say that this boycott is not enough. You can't penalize these athletes that have worked for years. They need to be able to be in the Olympics. But the Olympics doesn't need to be in China. And the United States and Joe Biden have enough power to convince, I believe, the rest of the world say, you know what? We are not going to go there because of this genocide, these human rights abuses. We want it moved.

BAIER: I have 10 seconds here, Kimberley.

STRASSEL: Well, they also have to decide what they want, what their ambitions are. If their first priority is keeping China onside for climate change, then they're not going to take any tougher steps.

BAIER: There you go. Panel, thank you so much.
 

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