‘Special Report’ All-Star Panel on border, Hunter Biden

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Jonah Goldberg: 'I'm embarrassed' by our immigration policy

'Special Report' All-Star panel discusses the crisis at the southern border

This is a rush transcript from "Special Report with Bret Baier," September 23, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We feel those images are horrible and horrific. There is an investigation. The president certainly supports, overseen by the Department of Homeland Security, which he has conveyed will happen quickly. I can also convey to you that the secretary also conveyed to civil rights leaders earlier this morning that we would no longer be using horses in Del Rio. So that is something, a policy change that has been made in response.

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I have a question about the numbers that you gave and the math. So there are 15,000 migrants under the Del Rio bridge Saturday. If you add up the ones that you say were expelled or released, it's less than 5,000. Say there is 5,000 that are still left. Where is everybody else?

PSAKI: I'm happy to get you a more fruitful run down for you if you -- if helpful from the Department of Homeland Security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER: A lot of questions about the immigration situation, the border crisis at the White House briefing. These are the numbers DHS put out - 1,400 roughly returned to Haiti, 3,206 to custody of Customs and Border Patrol, various facilities, 3,881 remain at the Del Rio bridge. Now, they told me there would be no math, but that is not 15,000, to Peter Doocy's question. And there are a lot of questions about the policy going forward, what it means. We know horse won't be used.

Let's bring in our panel, former education secretary Bill Bennett, Harold Ford Jr., former Tennessee Congressman, CEO of Empowerment and Inclusion Capital, and Jonah Goldberg, editor in chief of "The Dispatch." Jonah, your thoughts on this?

JONAH GOLDBERG, "THE DISPATCH": I'm embarrassed about the whole thing. I have said this a bunch of times on this show that when people ask me what my preferred immigration policy is, my standard answer is to have one. And pick a policy, pick a number, and enforce it, and stand by it. And instead, we have had a policy of sort of bipartisan chaos for decades in this country, and now we can see a microcosm of it at the border.

And the idea that the biggest controversy right now is the aesthetics of a photo of a horse and a guy on a horse doing something that people were wrong about as being the thing that the White House is scrambling to fix just shows you how optics matter more to this White House and to Democrats in general on these issues than the actual substance of the policy.

BAIER: Jonah, I have to commend this piece that you wrote for "The Dispatch" about Joe Biden and the passive voice, and that is the portrayal that this is somehow passively happening to him as opposed to decisions that Biden is making and the consequences of them.

GOLDBERG: Yes. We heard this just tonight, the clip you had from Jen Psaki earlier in the show, where she says we are weathering storms. No, when you are weathering storms, you are not responsible for the weather. Storms are things that happen to you. Joe Biden says events in Afghanistan unfolded, events at the border have unfolded, as if he has no agency and no responsibility for these things. He has made choices, and we are seeing the consequences of his choices on a whole bunch of fronts. And the way the media and the way the White House spin it, it's like poor Joe Biden is like Charlie Brown being followed by a rain cloud, and he has no responsibility for what the predicaments that his White House is in.

BAIER: Harold, taking criticism from the left about the horse thing and the picture and the handling of Haitian immigrants, and from the right in that border security is really a question.

HAROLD FORD JR., FORMER TENNESSEE REPRESENTATIVE: Look, I think, Jonah -- thanks for having me on tonight. I think Jonah has pretty much nailed this. There is not a lot I can disagree with. I would only add the concerning and puzzling thing about this policy, I think that's really where Jonah's point is most poignant. I don't know what it is the White House wants to do. I think every day we are all bewildered, and obviously some members of Congress, and I share -- I do think the optics of what those guys were doing on the horses is something that brings back some memories in this country we don't want to ever remember. But removing the horses doesn't seem like that's going to solve the problem.

Two, Secretary Mayorkas seems like a good guy, probably a good and honest man. I feel bad for him because he doesn't seem to have a policy to implement, and he doesn't seem to inspire real confidence, certainly amongst legislators and, increasingly, I think, with the American people. But it starts with President Biden. They have got to get a policy, and that policy should include everything from understanding the lack of investments in this hemisphere, in our own hemisphere over the last 40 years. It should also call for building a wall. And then sit with Dems and Republicans alike, and let's figure out what can we do to maybe reinstate some of the things that worked under President Trump, and get rid of the things that didn't.

BAIER: You said build a wall.

FORD: I would -- the wall would be a part of a package that I would offer to Republicans as we try to build some kind of meaningful, long-term solution, sustainable solution to what's happening at our border. I have said that on your show before.

BAIER: I know you have. But the party, your party is not there just because it seems like it's tied to a Trump idea. Bill, your thoughts on all this?

BILL BENNETT, FORMER EDUCATION SECRETARY: Yes, horses and reins, it's ridiculous. It's horses' asses and the policy. Mayorkas is not an honest man. He lies every day of the week. And Biden shoves off responsibility to impassive forces. He did this. And let's talk about what this policy is. Those 10,000 people or so, Haitians in the middle of the night are being distributed across the United States of America. We don't know who they're. We don't know whether he they're carrying COVID. We don't know whether terrorists are mixed in with them.

But even if they are just decent Haitian people, this is not the way to run a policy. And with all due respect for Jonah, we did have a solution to this, at least part of a solution, and that was stay in Mexico policy, remain in Mexico policy. We had a lot better situation than we had -- than we have now. And of course, you want to comprehensive solution. But making things worse as he seems to be doing with everything he touches, and it's he who is touching it.

BAIER: Yes. Jonah, Bill Melugin reporting down there, talking to the Border Patrol all the time, saying they've been asking for more resources to deal with that really since May or June, and it's been a situation that's been bubbling up. Fair to say that this administration on a number of fronts has taken hits that are affecting its position not only here in Washington but politically around the country.

GOLDBERG: Yes. Look, we were watching Biden's numbers hemorrhage. We are seeing part of the problem that Biden has is that he has no super loyalists. He has no one who would crawl over glass for him the way they would for Obama or for Donald Trump. And so the base of the Democratic Party wants to exact its concessions, it pound of flesh. Moderates aren't going to leap to his defense, and Republicans certainly aren't either. So he's sort of a guy at sea, but he is responsible for a lot of the problems that he's got.

BAIER: All right, stand by, panel. Up next, another Hunter Biden scandal. This one may actually get covered beyond FOX News and "The New York Post."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities are seeing if those emails we just talked about are connected to ongoing Russian disinformation. There is a lot about this story that does not add up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is so obviously a Russian operation. It is so obviously a story that was created by the Trump campaign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifty high level intelligence agents, people who have worked in the intelligence agencies, came out and said that this is most likely propaganda.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER: That's sound about the Hunter Biden story as it was coming out during the election, before the election. It wasn't covered a lot of places, or covered like that. This week "Politico" had a piece out. It said "A person who had independent access to Hunter Biden's emails confirmed he did receive 2015 email from Ukrainian businessman thanking him for the chance to meet Joe Biden. The same goes for a 2017 email in which a proposed equity breakdown of a venture with Chinese energy executives includes the line "10 held by H for the big guy?" While the leak contains genuine files, it remains possible the fake material has been slipped in." And add to that "The Business Insider" has a new batch of emails dealing with money and Hunter Biden with the Libyan government.

We are back with our panel. Harold, is this a big deal?

FORD: I don't know. I have not heard any allegation of criminality or criminal wrongdoing here. And one of the things we do know is Hunter Biden has talked about it. He has written about it. He has apologized for it, that being his substance addictions over the years. I don't believe he deserves a pass for that, but I do believe that he deserves a second chance. And I don't think he deserves any less or any more than that. And if there is evidence that a crime was committed, then I'm sure it will be pursued by the appropriate authorities. I'm not going to pile on a guy who had substance addictions.

BAIER: Yes. And obviously, this is separate of that. But the U.S. attorney in Delaware, we were told that there was an investigation ongoing. He, by the way, is I think one of the only attorneys under Trump that still remains in the Biden administration. So we don't know where that's going, Bill.

BENNETT: Yes, I rarely do this, but from "Business Insider," one Obama- Biden donor to another, he travels with dad, is connected everywhere in Europe with Gaddafi's investments and frozen money. He said he has access to highest level in China. He can help there. His negatives are that he is an alcoholic, a drug addict, he was kicked out of the U.S. Army - should be Navy -- for cocaine, chasing low class hookers, constantly needs money, liquidity problems, and many more headaches. It's a sorry, sordid story and rife with corruption. Can somebody please pay attention to it other than FOX News?

BAIER: Jonah?

GOLDBERG: Yes. We didn't even need the laptop story to know that he was a shady character with a lot of personal demons. Personally, I find that his grift selling art that no one want were it not for his last name is pretty outrageous. I do think there's an interest sort of historical parallel here in that this Libyan story, people forget that one of the first families, the Billy Carter scandals of the 1970s, Billy-gate was all about influence- peddling with Libya. Just maybe stay away from Libya if you are a shady family member of a president.

BAIER: Libya or China. Harold, last word here. The polling issues, do you think Democrats are raising eyebrows about this?

FORD: If Democrats don't understand that giving the president and the party and the country a victory on infrastructure is one way to begin a positive path, and as I have said before, they are not going to win reelection next year in the majority, and they probably don't deserve it if they can't take a win that's right in front of them.

BAIER: All right, when we come back, panel, tomorrow's headlines.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BAIER: Gorgeous shot of the Capitol tonight. Finally tonight, a look at tomorrow's headlines with the panel. Harold?

FORD: A little personal privilege. My prayers go out to all of my family and friends in Memphis and Collierville, Tennessee, to the chief of police there in Collierville, and to all the first responders for the way you've responded today at the shooting at the Kroger there. You will be in all of our prayers. Bless you.

BAIER: Sad stuff. Bill?

BENNETT: Yes, Biden overheard quoting Shakespeare's "King Lear." This is not the worst as long as you can say this is the worst. He didn't really say that. I made that up. But he should check out "King Lear" about another king who makes one awful decision about another and how he ends up. It doesn't work out well.

BAIER: Jonah?

GOLDBERG: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez fined for removing mask on House floor better to weep over the continued existence of Israel.

BAIER: All right, panel, thank you. Tomorrow on SPECIAL REPORT, Congress seeks answer about the Havana syndrome happening more and more to diplomats and intel officers. What is it, and what do we know?

Thanks for inviting us into your home tonight. That's it for this SPECIAL REPORT, fair, balanced, and unafraid.

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