Should migrants in the caravan qualify for asylum?

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Should migrants in the caravan qualify for asylum?

Federal judge blocks Trump's asylum ban; former adviser to Mexican President Vicente Fox Juan Hernandez reacts.

This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," November 20, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARK STEYN, GUEST HOST: Good evening and welcome to "Tucker Carlson Tonight." I'm Mark Steyn in for Tucker this evening, but he will be here for a special appearance later in the show. But first, the continuing crisis on America's Southern border and a new legal ruling that could have quite an impact. Jonathan Hunt has more.

Jonathan?

JONATHAN HUNT, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: Good evening, Mark. Thousands of Central American migrants are at the U.S.-Mexico border awaiting their chance to apply for asylum. Some are trying to circumvent what can be a lengthy process by crossing the border illegally where there isn't a checkpoint and then claiming asylum while already on U.S. soil.

It is those would-be illegal immigrants that President Trump targeted in a November 9th Proclamation saying anyone who crossed the border between official points of entry would not be eligible for asylum.

But the courts have again ruled against the President with U.S. District Judge John Tyga (ph), who was appointed by President Obama, writing, "Whatever the scope of the President's authority, he may not rewrite the immigration laws to impose a condition that Congress has expressly forbidden."

The Trump Administration can appeal and the case would likely be heard by the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which has already ruled against the President on a number of immigration issues, a fact clearly not lost on Mr. Trump who berated the Ninth Circuit as he left the White House for his Thanksgiving break today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD J. TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well you go to Ninth Circuit and it's a disgrace, and I'm going to put in a major complaint because you cannot win, if you're us, a case in the Ninth Circuit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Around 3,000 migrants from the Caravan that originated in Central America have gathered in Tijuana on the Mexico side of the U.S. border. The Department of Homeland Security says there are around 500 "Criminals" among them although it has not said specifically what each of their alleged crimes is.

And on the U.S. side, 5,800 troops are now stationed to support Customs and Border Protection agents at an estimated cost of $72 million, according to the Pentagon today and amid a certain degree of confusion as to how long those troops will stay and exactly what their mission is.

Mark?

STEYN: Thanks Jonathan. Juan Hernandez is a former advisor to the Mexican President Vicente Fox and he joins us now. Juan, in what sense are these people in the Caravan asylum seekers?

JUAN HERNANDEZ, FORMER ADVISOR TO MEXICAN PRESIDENT VICENTE FOX: Well I've met with many of them. I met with the - the 7,200 caravan in the State of Guanajuato that I now work for under the Governor, Diego Sinhue, specifically working with immigrants, mostly Mexican immigrants living in the United States.

But also, it was my duty to make sure that we treat in a humanitarian way these 7,200 that went through Guanajuato. And I'll tell you--

STEYN: Well--

HERNANDEZ: --you sit down with them for a minute and you're in tears. These are children--

STEYN: But - but - but--

HERNANDEZ: --these are women, let me finish. These are people looking for a better way of life like your family and my family did many years ago coming to the United States.

STEYN: Well, I don't know about you. I didn't come as an asylum seeker. But if - if I was an asylum seeker - this Caravan has marched across two national frontiers. It marched into Guatemala illegally and then it marched into Mexico illegally. If you're an asylum seeker, aren't you supposed to seek asylum in the first safe country you come to?

HERNANDEZ: My friend, we all know the United States is today the most powerful nation in the world. It's the dream of many, many people who are just trying to get out of dire poverty, violence, to be able to reach the United States and to be able to - to be a blessing as they are the immigrants to this nation. That's the dream. They're coming to the United States. And they're seeking asylum.

STEYN: Well--

HERNANDEZ: They're not invading. And it's such a small number.

STEYN: But wait a minute - wait a minute--

HERNANDEZ: --we're talking about (ph) 10,000, 12,000 total, my friend.

STEYN: --no, no, but you're now saying that a dream is a basis for an asylum. I - I might have a dream--

HERNANDEZ: Definitely--

STEYN: --I might have a dream to live in Barbra Streisand's house. It doesn't mean I have the right to go and move into her guest bedroom.

HERNANDEZ: But if - but if you're in the block away from her home, and you're being attacked, and you're being raped, and your children, the only chance that they will have is to maybe join a - a gang, and you can't even feed them, you would be knocking--

STEYN: Oh--

HERNANDEZ: --on that movie star's home saying, "Is there some way that I could be here at your home and work for you?"

STEYN: Yes. And she still wouldn't let me in, Juan. You know that. Here's the - here - here--

HERNANDEZ: Oh, I know she would. She would, my friend.

STEYN: --no, here's the - here's the thing, though. You talk about all the children that there's women being raped, these are overwhelmingly young men. What kind of refugees, what kind of asylum seekers leave the old and the sick and their kids and their women folk back in Guatemala or wherever, and it's just the young men who come across the frontier? It's overwhelmingly--

HERNANDEZ: And--

STEYN: --young men.

HERNANDEZ: --yes, probably about 75 to 80 percent are young men.

STEYN: Yes.

HERNANDEZ: You're right. They are the ones back to our big dreams. They are the ones who want to do better for their families and they're leaving desperately. They see no way that they can be able to survive even--

STEYN: Just - just - but--

HERNANDEZ: --in some of the places where they come from.

STEYN: --no, no, no, but just - just the - everyone with a dream, the 7 billion people on the planet. And, as you say, America is the most powerful, wealthiest, all the rest of it. Does that give 6.5 billion people the right to move to the United States?

HERNANDEZ: It's not that it's the right. Those many would claim that it is a human right that if you are in dire, dire situation, you're going to try even if you have--

STEYN: No, no, no, no--

HERNANDEZ: --break some administrative rules.

STEYN: But what's (ph)--

HERNANDEZ: They have not committed crimes.

STEYN: --what for (ph)--

HERNANDEZ: They are just seeking asylum.

STEYN: You're now part of the state government in - in Mexico.

HERNANDEZ: Yes, sir. Proudly.

STEYN: What - what - what's wrong with your state then? If they just want a better life, why can't they move to your state? Your state's better than the Honduras, wherever they come from?

HERNANDEZ: Yes, it is. But the dream for them was the United States. As a wonderful article by Father Melo, a priest from Honduras, and he called it the boil-over. I - I suggest that many of your viewers read it. I think it was New York Times came out the translation.

And he - he said that these were a people. They're not organized. They weren't paid by anyone. A few dozens were going to desperately just leave the country and it just boiled over. Literally, thousands said--

STEYN: Wait--

HERNANDEZ: --we can take it no longer. We must seek a better life.

STEYN: But - but - but - but--

HERNANDEZ: It is happening, you're right, all over the world. Today, there are 250 million people going from one country to another trying to find a better life. We have to deal with it. We must be a country of laws, and I'm speaking Mexico and the United States, but also, countries that are going, we're being tested, my friend, today. Other nations have not passed the test.

STEYN: Well - well wait a minute--

HERNANDEZ: We could talk--

STEYN: --who didn't (ph)--

HERNANDEZ: --we need to pass this test of being humanitarian--

STEYN: Why - why--

HERNANDEZ: --and give (ph) dignity to these people.

STEYN: --why is it in the interests of other countries for all their most talented people to move to the United States or Western Europe? Why is it in the - the--

HERNANDEZ: Well--

STEYN: --why is it in the interest of Guatemala or anywhere else to be denuded of its most talented people?

HERNANDEZ: Well, sure. It - it's mostly economic in the United States. If you, and I'm sure you do, read the statistics, United States is growing less than 1 percent. The United States needs about 350,000--

STEYN: No. No.

HERNANDEZ: --new people every year.

STEYN: No.

HERNANDEZ: These 10,000 are good people.

STEYN: No. They - they (ph)--

HERNANDEZ: They've got - I - I met them. They went through our wonderful State of Guanajuato--

STEYN: Yes. They maybe - there's plenty of good people (ph).

HERNANDEZ: --that by the way is doing great financially.

STEYN: Yes.

HERNANDEZ: But their dream is to come to the United States.

STEYN: There - there - there - there's plenty of good people. If you go to these Airport diners, by the way, you - you enter your meal order on a machine. Nobody needs people anymore. It's all automation. Juan, thank you- -

HERNANDEZ: Oh not - not true.

STEYN: --thank you for that. No, no, no, it - it's - it is true. 30 percent of the world's going to be unemployed in a few years. So, what's the real situation--

HERNANDEZ: No, no.

STEYN: --thank you, Juan. What's the - what's the real situation at the border? And what are agents actually having to deal with there as this Caravan approaches?

Tom Homan is the former Acting Director of ICE. And he joins us. We've seen dramatic scenes going on at the Southern border, Tom, as this Caravan prepares essentially to cross with impunity its third national frontier. What's going to happen?

THOMAS DOUGLAS HOMAN, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Real quick, let me respond to Juan's comments. First of all, we're the most welcoming country in this world. We welcome more refugees in the United States than every other country in the world combined. So, enough.

And you can't want to be a part of the greatest country on earth and not respect our laws. Seeking a better life doesn't - doesn't qualify for asylum, so they're committing fraud. So, that's just a stone-cold fact.

What's going on the border, look, this President has - has - has gotten this nation ready. He's got additional CBP officers down there. He's got DoD down there. They had built extra infrastructure. They're building facilities to detain people, which is a secret.

What this President needs to do, which hasn't happened in the past, is once they - if they get to the United States and enter, they need to be detained until they see a Judge because the Central American population is right (ph) around 89 to 91 percent will lose their case--

STEYN: Right.

HOMAN: --because they don't qualify for asylum. But they have to be in custody when they lose the case so they can be removed, which sends a strong message to the rest of the world that we are a nation of laws. We'll - we'll give you a due process but you got to live by the Judge's decision also.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROWD PROTESTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEYN: Well, you say we're a nation of laws. We're - we're - we're getting government by judges. Judges have ruled that immigrants subject to deportation for being convicted criminals have a right to say goodbye. That's apparently in the Constitution.

A Judge has ruled to stop the deportation of 1,400 Iraqi nationals, who are committed of crime. Another Judge struck down Trump's Travel Ban because foreign nationals apparently have an affirmative right to visit their relatives in the United States. In other words, aren't the courts actually making a mockery of any effective immigration or asylum enforcement?

HOMAN: They absolutely are. In the three cases you just mentioned, I was the ICE Director in all those cases. I mean there's one guy - the first case, he had an ordered deportation. He had due process. At great taxpayer expense, was ordered to remove (ph) but one hit help (ph). Then when we finally did finally went (ph) to arrest him, the Judge warranted him more time to say goodbye to his family--

STEYN: Right. Right.

HOMAN: --when he knew for years he had to leave.

STEYN: Yes.

HOMAN: But yes, especially when I say (ph)--

STEYN: That's the constitutional right to a Long Goodbye. The Judge managed to detect that.

HOMAN: Look, we're in a state right now, the ACLU - ACLU just sued the Trump Administration for the right for people to enter this country illegally, and be able to claim asylum.

STEYN: Yes.

HOMAN: The Ninth Circuit has lost their minds.

STEYN: Right.

HOMAN: And this is going to continue. This isn't so much about the rule of law. This is about an attack on the Trump Administration. But when he did this Asylum Proclamation, he based on the same general principle as what they call these the - the - the travel ban. We won that in the - in the Supreme Court. We'll win this.

The problem is until it gets to Supreme Court, thousands and thousands and thousands--

STEYN: Thousands right (ph)--

HOMAN: --of more Caravans' going to come because of this ruling.

STEYN: Thanks. Thanks a lot, Tom. You're - you're right on that.

As we mentioned, the activist judges aren't just out of control on immigration or inventing rights for Central American migrants. Today, Federal Judge Mark Goldsmith ordered the release of more than a 100 criminal immigrants from Iraq.

Some of these guys committed crimes as severe as assault and even murder. And so, Iraq doesn't want them back. That's too bad then because as Judge Goldsmith has ruled, the government can't even hold them. They have to let them go back into the community. Increasingly, the rule for judges seems to be blocking any deportations at all, even for convicted murderers.

And speaking of the battle between the Trump Administration and the legal system, President Trump has submitted his written answers to questions posed by the Mueller Investigation. The President's attorneys say the questions Trump answered related to Russia.

And Rudy Giuliani has said the President's cooperation with the investigation is unprecedented. He's called for a quick end to the investigation. We're going to have more on that with Brit Hume in just a moment.

Also, Democrat Stacey Adams (ph) lost Georgia's gubernatorial election fair and square. But she won't concede. Is this the new normal from the Democrats? Brit Hume's going to talk about that also.

And have no fear. Tucker is here. He'll be making a special appearance tonight right here on TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT, all that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEYN: One final battle still to be fought in the midterms and the U.S. Senate. This time, in Mississippi, Republican Cindy Hyde-Smith is running against Democrat Mike Espy. And normally, this should be a slam dunk for Republicans. But the race is suddenly in doubt.

To investigate why, our Elections Expert, Independent Women's Voice Senior Fellow, Lisa Boothe, she's been keeping--

LISA BOOTHE, FOX NEWS CO-HOST, OUTNUMBERED, INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S VOICE SENIOR FELLOW: I - I like that. Elections expert, OK (ph).

STEYN: Well you - you've been doing all the midterms. And--

BOOTHE: I have.

STEYN: --it's three weeks after Election Day, but the midterms are - are still on. Why is Mississippi in trouble?

BOOTHE: Well that's my background working in politics over the years. Well look, it's competitive because there was a jungle primary and Cindy Hyde- Smith, who is the Republican incumbent there, who's running for re- election, nobody reached over the 55 percent threshold.

So, now we are in this runoff, November 27th. There you see on the screen, Mike Expy - Espy is the Democrat, a former Agricultural Secretary and then Cindy - Cindy Hyde-Smith, as I mentioned, who's the incumbent, will face off then.

Democrats are really drawing attention to some recent comments that Hyde- Smith has made. And so, that's what they're kind of honing in and focusing on. However, I don't know if this race will end up being as competitive as people are trying to make it out to be. Remember, there were two Republicans that ate up a lot of that votes.

STEYN: Right.

BOOTHE: You had Hyde-Smith who was the, you know, leader, not reaching the 50 percent threshold. But you also have Chris McDaniel eating up 16 - over 16 percent of the votes. So, without him in the picture, you can see how her chances are a lot better off on November 27th.

STEYN: So, you don't think there's anything to this theory that a lot of formerly Red states are starting to purple a little. That's the Democrats' theory on how Texas, Georgia, and maybe even Mississippi, the - in - in the medium term, an election cycle or two down the road and things favor them.

BOOTHE: Well we'll find out in 2020. I mean it's really hard to tell. This was just a bad election cycle for Republicans.

STEYN: Yes.

BOOTHE: I mean I remember in 2009, Time Magazine did a cover and said, you know, "Endangered species for Republicans," and then--

STEYN: Right.

BOOTHE: --Republicans went on to win the House 63 seats, they netted--

STEYN: Yes.

BOOTHE: --in 2010. Then winning - and then 2012, Republicans did this autopsy report. They're in so much trouble--

STEYN: Right, right.

BOOTHE: --for winning the White House, go back to win the Senate in 2014 and the White House in 2016, we just don't know. Maybe 2020 is a terrible year for Republicans. We don't know that.

So, I don't think we can really draw the conclusion that somehow Republicans are in trouble in the south. We'll find out on November 27th what happens in this race though.

Maybe that proves me to be wrong but I do think with Chris McDaniel no longer being on the ballot there, and just a Republican versus Democrat race, Republicans will come home for Hyde-Smith.

STEYN: OK. But you'll - you'll be back to tell us about that, Lisa, November 27th, Mississippi. Thank you, Lisa. It only--

BOOTHE: Thank you.

STEYN: --it only took 10 days but Stacey Abrams has finally admitted she's lost Georgia's gubernatorial race. Despite that, she's not actually conceding. And instead, is claiming the election was illegitimate because it happened to produce the wrong winner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STACEY YVONNE ABRAMS, FORMER MINORITY LEADER OF THE GEORGIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, LAWYER, NOVELIST: It was not a free and fair election.

It was not fair to the - the thousands who were forced to wait in long lines.

It was not fair to the thousands that were put on hold with their registrations.

JAKE TAPPER, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER, CNN: Is he the legitimate Governor-elect of Georgia?

ABRAMS: He is the person who won an adequate number of votes.

TAPPER: But that's--

You're not using the word legitimate. Is he the legitimate Governor-elect of Georgia?

ABRAMS: He is the legal Governor of Georgia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEYN: Fox Senior Political Analyst, Brit Hume, joins us. Brit, the Democrats seem to be taking the view that this guy is like, I don't know, Hosni Mubarak or Colonel Gaddafi. He didn't really win the thing.

BRIT HUME, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST, FOX NEWS: This is how this works, Mark.

If you're a Democrat and you complain, no matter how unfounded your complaint may be, about the results of an election, why you're a patriot, I've seen her - her - her styled in some places as a class act when you complain about the result of an election and claim that it was rigged or whatever.

If you're a Republican in Florida, however, and you complain about the documented, court confirmed irregularities in two counties down there, why - you're undermining democracy. Now that - if that sounds to you like a double standard, I would suggest that that's exactly what it is and the hypocrisy is remarkable.

And remember (ph) and don't forget this, Donald Trump wins the election in 2016 and we have heard no end of complaints that that - that that was rigged and set up for him in a collaborating - on a plot of collaboration with the Russians and with still people who cling to that--

STEYN: Right.

HUME: --theory that conspiracy theory to this day.

STEYN: Right, right.

HUME: So, it's OK if you're a Democrat to complain. But if you're Republican, uh-uh.

STEYN: Democrats don't actually seem to accept the legitimacy of any Republican victory. In the end, what they're doing is actually undermining the entire faith in the legitimacy of U.S. elections, aren't they?

HUME: Well - well that is certainly the complaint that they always lodge when Republicans complain. But, heaven forefend, you see that we would ever suggest that that's what they're doing. But I think in the case of the Georgia election, in particular, that their complaints are especially unfounded.

And if you look at the complaints or a point-by-point, you find that they're - that the things that were done that took certain people off the voter rolls were mandated by law--

STEYN: Right.

HUME: --if you - if you do the - the identification - the signature check that they have to do that is likewise a matter of law. There's nothing irregular about way - about the way that election was handled that that has been in any - documented in any serious way. And yet, here she is complaining to huzzah, from her side of the aisle--

STEYN: Yes.

HUME: --about the legitimacy of the election. It's just - it's - it--

STEYN: Good.

HUME: --I think it - I - you know, I don't - my view of this is that the complaint is so lame that it probably won't do very much damage to people's faith in democracy, but it's out there anyway.

STEYN: Well - well speaking of faith in democracy, you mentioned that here we are two years on, they're still investigating officially the 2016 election. And today, the President's fill - finished his answers for Robert Mueller. Does that mean that Mr. Mueller's investigation is drawing to a close?

HUME: Well, one would think that this would represent a final stage now. And I - and I think that the Mueller team has been waiting to see what kind of answers it could get President Trump to answer for quite some time, and this appears to be it.

Now, I suppose it's theoretically possible that they could look at these answers and say, "Well, wait a minute. This opens up a whole new line of enquiry, and they will insist on doing that."

You know, these - these - these independent counsels or special prosecutors if - when that was still the case do tend to go on for as long as they want with whatever budget they need.

And - and, of course, the clamor in Washington now is - is the fear that this new Acting Attorney General will rein that investigation. And my hunch is that the investigation is probably very near to conclusion.

And, you know Mark, this investigation has been widely mischaracterized--

STEYN: Right.

HUME: --on all sides. It - you're - you're hearing, you often hear it (ph) said that well the purpose of the investigation was to determine if there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians. Actually, that is a subset of what the investigation was supposed to be about.

It originated under - under James Comey as a counterintelligence investigation to determine what exactly the Russians did--

STEYN: Right.

HUME: --to try to influence the election.

STEYN: Right.

HUME: That was his principal purpose with the - with the collusion allegations being a piece of that, but not the main event. So, I think what we're likely to hear from Mueller is a report that will go into quite some detail about exactly what the Russians did, which could be very useful to know.

STEYN: Yes. As long as they - they manage to finish it before the Russians steal the 2020 election. I mean at a certain point things just become--

HUME: Yes. Before - before the 2020 election--

STEYN: --theoretical.

HUME: --is all over.

STEYN: Or 2024, yes. Thank - thank you, Brit. The Women's March--

HUME: You bet (ph).

STEYN: --was supposed to destroy President Trump. Instead, it's destroying itself. That's next. Plus, Tucker himself making a special appearance. All that, just ahead, on TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEY JUDD, AMERICAN ACTRESS, POLITICAL ACTIVIST: I'm a nasty woman.

(CROWD CHEERING)

JUDD: A loud, vulgar, proud woman.

MADONNA LOUISE CICCONE, AMERICAN SINGER-SONGWRITER, ACTRESS, BUSINESSWOMAN: To our detractors that insist that this March will never add up to anything, (BEEP).

Yes, I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEYN: But it may be the Women's March Movement itself that is blowing up. It was supposed to spearhead the anti-Trump resistance. Instead, it's devolved into a case of March Madness.

Women's March Founder, Teresa Shook, is calling on Linda Sarsour, Tamika Mallory and other leaders to resign their posts with the group due to their support for the Nation of Islam Leader, Louis Farrakhan, and other anti- Semitic positions. Sarsour and her colleagues have dismissed Shook as irrelevant.

Tammy Bruce is President of the Independent Women's Voice. And if there were a genuine Women's March, she should be leading it, in my view.

TAMMY BRUCE, ON-AIR CONTRIBUTOR, FOX NEWS, INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S VOICE PRESIDENT: Well very good (ph).

STEYN: Tammy, what's - what's going on here, this--

BRUCE: Yes, it's--

STEYN: --this issue (ph).

BRUCE: --it's more than just anti-Semitism or Jew-hatred. There's also lot of apparently anti-gay sentiment--

STEYN: Right.

BRUCE: --that has - has arisen. Not unusual for the far Left, of course, all right? They're bigots.

STEYN: Yes.

BRUCE: And that's the problem here. So what - this is - it's also not unusual that this is happening at all, in that you've got the Left traditionally does this. They co-opt important issues to a society that they're invading, they co-opt it and then they ride it to death.

STEYN: Yes.

BRUCE: And right now, the Women's March clearly is not now about women's issues at all. They're complaining about White nationalism, White men--

STEYN: Yes.

BRUCE: --it's about race. And it's really just the carcass now of what was for a - a women's movement and this is what the Left does. And they're - now, it's just a - it's a warning. This is not an isolated incident. It's beginning to try to move into the Democratic Party and that this should be a warning to everyone that identity politics, this is inevitably where it goes--

STEYN: Right, yes.

BRUCE: --because in order to be proud of your - your identity, your personal identity, you've got to be better or different from someone else. And it invites the - it invites the need for bigotry and for isolating the other individual who is unlike you.

STEYN: Well you - you said they're not just anti-Semitic, they're also anti-gay.

BRUCE: Yes.

STEYN: Louis Farrakhan, one of his many fascinating statements was that the Jew is responsible for the feminizing of the Black man.

BRUCE: Oh, lovely.

STEYN: Not - not - not that there's anything wrong with that. I don't think oh if - but if there is, you don't want the Jews having a monopoly on it. I don't - I won't pretend to understand what he's getting at there. Linda Sarsour is a strong supporter of this.

BRUCE: Yes.

STEYN: She's refused to back down.

BRUCE: Correct.

STEYN: She - she's a great believer in Sharia, so there's no reason why she would have any particular interest in women's rights or gay rights--

BRUCE: Correct.

STEYN: --or anybody else's rights. And likewise, Tamika Mallory is a big supporter of this (ph).

BRUCE: Well, this is a classic hijacking. And - and there is - could be an - I saw this emerging when I was in now (ph) and on the Left 20 - 25 years ago--

STEYN: Yes.

BRUCE: --the problem and I have a lot of respect for Ms. Shook.

STEYN: Yes.

BRUCE: But - she's a retired lawyer, lives in Hawaii. The power of the internet, this started with a Facebook page, which is fabulous. I disagree with her on - on all of her issues that she's espoused on Facebook.

STEYN: Yes.

BRUCE: But I have a lot of respect for her - for saying that she wants them all to resign, to step down--

STEYN: Right.

BRUCE: --to try to save this Movement. But, of course, it - this will always occur unless you're there and - and ready to push back because this is like a virus that occurs with the Left, not just the American Left, but around the world. This is what they do. They want to divide. They want to disrupt.

And that's how they're doing it with this and there's a lot of work that needs to be done and at least for - for normal Liberals, this is a kind of thing that you must stand up against because otherwise it's going to consume everything that matters to you.

STEYN: While you - you say normal Liberals, isn't it the - isn't it the case, Tammy, that at some point there's a reckoning that the - that the identity politics coalition is basically incoherent. You know that in parts of Amsterdam and London, as those places have Islamized, the gay bars close and move out--

BRUCE: Right

STEYN: --that in the end, you got to pick and choose your identity politics and maybe Ms. Sarsour represents where the energy is in the Democrats identity (ph)--

BRUCE: Well identity politics is inherently not a Liberal position. Liberalism is about allowing individuals to live the lives that best suit them. You can't do that by identifying just based on an identity. It's got to be about ideas--

STEYN: Yes.

BRUCE: --right? And inspiration, and - and values about for - for a - for a larger society and culture. That's the classical Liberal framework. That's the American--

STEYN: Yes. Yes, but that - that - that - that's - that's--

BRUCE: --sensibility.

STEYN: --like 50 years out of date and the Democrats know--

BRUCE: Well it is. But it - but it's - it exists with the base of - of Liberals. I'm convinced of that, and you can still take your party back. I want a strong, a loyal opposition to the - to the Republicans because it makes the country better and stronger. And as a result, conservatism then would still prevail because Liberals wouldn't be afraid of it because there they also want people--

STEYN: Right.

BRUCE: --to be free. And it takes money and success and the free market to be free.

STEYN: Fabulous. That's Tammy's Thanksgivings greetings--

BRUCE: Yes (ph).

STEYN: --to the U.S. Democratic Party. I don't--

BRUCE: And - and my cranberry sauce--

STEYN: --I - I--

BRUCE: --they'll get you right to where you're (ph).

STEYN: --Democrats will be coming around to Tammy's for Thanksgiving.

Tucker will be here after the break. He's going to talk to an Arizona Sheriff about Mexico's role in the devastating heroin epidemic across America. That's next on TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEYN: A Judge today ruled that the federal government's ban on female genital mutilation is unconstitutional. Boy, those Founding Fathers provided for everything. Two Michigan doctors and six others were charged with transporting girls as young as seven across state lines for the procedure.

But District Court Judge, Bernard Friedman, ruled that while the federal government may be able to force you to buy health insurance, it can't bar adults from scarring children in ways they will live with for the rest of their lives.

America's war against drugs coming from Mexico is going to get far more difficult. The party's newly elected government is moving rapidly toward legalizing marijuana. Meanwhile, its highest court has struck down the country's law authorizing the military's deployment against the drug cartels. Mexico then could soon be far more tolerant of drugs and the cartels.

Meanwhile, heroin brought in overwhelmingly from Mexico is killing tens of thousands of Americans every year. Tucker just spoke with an Arizona Sheriff about the threat of Mexican heroin. Here's Tucker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST, TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT: Opioids are killing tens of thousands of Americans every year. It's an epidemic. It's being driven in part by prescription drugs but not only by prescription drugs. Also heroin, more of it is being smuggled into this country than ever before. And almost all of that heroin is coming from Mexico across our poorest Southern border.

Matt Thomas is the Deputy Chief of Police in Pinal County, Arizona, and he joins us tonight. Chief Thomas, thanks very much for coming on. Give us a sense, and this is something that's rarely discussed in Washington, but the scale of opioid smuggling across our Southern border into the United States.

MATTHEW THOMAS, CHIEF DEPUTY, PINAL COUNTY: Well, we've seen a - a significant increase since 2014. It used to be that Arizona, our Southern border's marijuana was the cash crop for the Sinaloan cartel specifically that kind of is the main cartel for our state.

CARLSON: Yes.

THOMAS: And there was a significant shift starting in 2014 where the marijuana smuggling started to decline and we started to see a significant increase in the smuggling of heroin, Fentanyl, and methamphetamine.

CARLSON: Fentanyl too?

THOMAS: Yes.

CARLSON: OK. So, I mean give us a sense like large amounts enough that they would help drive the epidemic that's killing so many Americans?

THOMAS: Oh, absolutely, especially the Fentanyl because such small doses are so lethal. And so--

CARLSON: Right.

THOMAS: --it'd be - that particular drug becomes a danger both for anybody that is using it but our officers of well - as well. We've had several exposures in our state where officers have been exposed to Fentanyl and then they've had to get the - the Narcan to help reverse the effects so that they don't die from the exposure.

We've had citizens, same thing, they overdose on it because it's much stronger than heroin, so we have the heroin problem--

CARLSON: Yes.

THOMAS: --but now we're having the Fentanyl problem and that is becoming a - a bigger crisis for us because it's so dangerous and we're seeing it. It's coming in the format of essentially fake pills.

So, what the cartels are sending up are what are being sold as Oxy. But it's fake, and it has the Fentanyl in it, and it's much stronger, more - more potent and more dangerous.

CARLSON: So, we just had it on the screen, I don't know if you could see it, video of drug tunnels crossing the border into the United States. How common are those in your County?

THOMAS: In our County, not common because we are - we're off the border about 70 miles and the County is unique, being that we're off the border 70 miles but it's open desert to the border, that's what kind of makes us more like a border county. But for the--

CARLSON: Right.

THOMAS: --border counties in the state, Pima County, Cochise County, Yuma County--

CARLSON: Yes.

THOMAS: --very common because the Sinaloans essentially are the masterminds behind those tunnels. And - and Arizona being predominantly Sinaloa cartel- ran, very common to see tunnels throughout our state.

CARLSON: Do you think Washington, which is trying to respond to the opioid crisis that's killing so many people, do you think that in Washington lawmakers have a sense of where these drugs are coming from?

THOMAS: I think they have a sense of where they're coming from. I mean they would have to have their heads buried pretty deep in the sand to not have a sense of that.

After all these years, I - we kind of know where the source is. But I don't think they have a sense of the magnitude of what's coming across the border, how easy it is to get across the border, and how adversely it's affecting all of our communities.

And, you know, from the smallest rural community all the way up to your metropolitan areas, it's having a very negative effect. And, you know, it's - it's kind of our fault on the American side. We're - we're the consumers. We've kind of created this problem. And - and they're just - it's a demand- driven thing.

CARLSON: Yes. It'd be nice to stop it. Thank you very much for telling us that. Appreciate it.

THOMAS: Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEYN: Mexican heroin, the Caravan that never stops.

A university is ordering students to avoid dangerous things like capital letters. The Liberal Sherpa will explain next.

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TEXT: THE LIBERAL SHERPA.

STEYN: University officials have already invented new bathrooms, torn down all the old statues, put the old statues in the old bathroom, so what is left?

The prancing scholars at Leeds Trinity University in the United Kingdom have issued a new edict for professors. Don't use the word, "Don't," and don't use capital letters for emphasis because they could traumatize sensitive students. It sounds crazy. But then, this is the same country where Manchester University banned clapping.

Cathy Areu is the Founding Publisher of Catalina magazine, and this show's Liberal Sherpa. I would give her a round of applause but Manchester University--

CATHERINE AREU, FOUNDING PUBLISHER, CATALINA MAGAZINE: Yes (ph).

STEYN: --says we have to use jazz hands. So--

(JAZZ HANDS GESTURE)

STEYN: --welcome Cathy.

AREU: Thank you. Thank you.

STEYN: What's the defense of banning capital letters?

AREU: Netiquette. So, etiquette for the internet, so it's netiquette, so it's being appropriate. So, if you don't want to offend or hurt someone who is receiving your message, if you want to write what you mean and mean what you write, then you would want to not yell at that person.

And it goes back to the 40s and the 70s where they said all-caps means yelling. So, by saying don't--

STEYN: Well--

AREU: --in all-caps, you're yelling at a person.

STEYN: Now, when they said that that was on manual typewriter.

AREU: Typewriters, believe it or not--

STEYN: Right.

AREU: --back in the--

STEYN: Right.

AREU: --40s they said, if I am - actually an author came out and said, if I'm using all-caps--

STEYN: Yes.

AREU: --I am yelling. And then in the 70s they said if I use all-caps, this is out of anger, this is rage. So, now in the age of Twitter and social media, all-caps is--

STEYN: Well--

AREU: --yelling.

STEYN: --well they've gone a bit for no-one said with a manual typewriter that you're traumatizing people if you're, you know, typing with the caps--

AREU: Right, right well--

STEYN: --caps lock on.

AREU: --no social media so--

STEYN: They - they say now that capital letters are traumatizing to these students. Cathy--

AREU: Right.

STEYN: --you notice there it says Tucker Carlson in capital, are you--

AREU: Oh, my gosh. Yes, yes--

STEYN: --are you traumatized?

AREU: --oh, he's yelling at me.

STEYN: Is there a doctor in the house? Can we get - can we get someone in here? Tucker is--

AREU: Well I know, right, right--

STEYN: --traumatizing. But he'd be (ph) traumatizing--

AREU: --yes.

STEYN: --in lower case like k.d. lang or e-coming (ph).

AREU: Signs - signs are different. I mean this is meant to just splash and come out at you--

STEYN: Yes.

AREU: --but when you're at your screen and this comes through to you at your screen, they're saying it causes anxiety.

STEYN: No, but it doesn't. It--

AREU: And they don't want students--

STEYN: --it doesn't.

AREU: --to have anxiety.

STEYN: And why does clapping cause anxiety?

AREU: Oh well, clapping has nothing to do with netiquette. They're saying that some students might be upset with the - the loud sounds, maybe migraines are provoked.

STEYN: Well - well - well why doesn't this remind - if I had - if I gave a speech and the audience all went I think, my God--

AREU: Right.

STEYN: --I'm - I'm in some 19th Century minstrel show, now I'm traumatized by the racism.

AREU: Right. Well, it seems so odd. But in 10 years and we go somewhere and everyone's doing this--

STEYN: Oh, right.

AREU: --it'll seem normal.

STEYN: Yes, well--

AREU: So, right now--

STEYN: --has the list (ph) baby.

AREU: --well--

STEYN: --tell me out of way (ph).

AREU: Don't yell at me.

STEYN: OK, Cathy. I think that makes sense.

Victor Davis Hanson is a Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution. He joins us. I won't insult you with my jazz hands. I won't traumatize you with my jazz hands, Victor. We all know, don't we, that people aren't really traumatized by jazz hands and capital--

VICTOR DAVIS HANSON, HOOVER INSTITUTION SENIOR FELLOW, AMERICAN CLASSICIST, MILITARY HISTORIAN, COLUMNIST, FARMER: No.

STEYN: --letters, are they?

HANSON: Yes. No, I think what we do in the West now in the administrative state or the bureaucracy or the universities we go after the misdemeanor that gives us a psychological sense we can do something because we can't address the felony.

In this case, we have students that are not prepared or not doing well. So, we say, perhaps we can solve the problem by capital or not capital letters. And it's kind of like - it's - it's a depressing moment though, Mark. It's kind of iconic.

I mean this generation in Britain, their great-grandfathers were going over the trenches at the Somme and Passchendaele to save Western civilization from the Second Reich.

STEYN: Yes.

HANSON: Their - their grandfathers were falling out of the Spitfires during the Blitz to save us again from the Third Reich. Their fathers were keeping - helping to keep 300 Soviet divisions out of Europe and 7,000 nuclear weapons that were pointed at European cities.

In this generation, at the same age and time in their life is worried about capital letters and, I guess, worried about where they're unfriended at Facebook. And, you know, I spent (ph)--

STEYN: Well--

HANSON: --my entire life in academia, we used to think that British intellectual life was the hallmark of the Western world, and that whatever mistakes we made, we could look toward Britain. This was T. S. Eliot--

STEYN: Yes.

HANSON: --and C.S. Lewis and the Regius Professor of Greek at Oxford. And to think that they've fallen into the same sad political correctness that we have is - is really depressing. And maybe too many people are going to college or, you know, you think that we're losing this generation in the West that is worried about capital letters.

They're not having children. They're not getting married. They're not buying homes. They're prolonging their adolescence. And maybe it's they shouldn't be in university and they could be much better in noble professions like plumbing and electricity that we really need, trade schools.

But something's gone wrong with the university and it's not just pernicious to the student but it's starting to affect the entire society at large.

STEYN: If, to take it seriously for a moment, if you are seriously discombobulated by capital letters or applause, are you likely to be able to do any of the things you just mentioned there like scramble over a trench in the psalm (ph) or get out of a troop carrier and wade ashore on the beaches of Normandy?

In other words, is this where the last generation of functioning civilization ends up?

HANSON: That's what I'm worried about because we're demographically, as you've written about, we're not reproducing ourselves. We're not becoming adults in our 20s. Those are the best years of our lives. We're not buying homes, starting businesses.

We have these life of Julia, Pajama Boy 20-somethings that try to find offense at everything and play professional victims, and history hasn't stopped. I mean there's a lot of people that don't like Western civilization and they're existential enemies, and we need people in the night to protect us and we have a fuel (ph). We have a--

STEYN: Right.

HANSON: --in America, we have these great soldiers--

STEYN: Yes.

HANSON: --that do it. But we're not getting guidance. We're not getting courage. We're not getting independence and autonomy from the university, it's - it's really sad. And we used to have that in both England and the United States.

STEYN: You're right. That is - that is certainly changed, Victor. Victor Davis Hanson, thank you.

HANSON: Right. Thank you.

STEYN: Two turkeys, President Trump has issued his Turkey Pardon today. You'll want to see how that went. That is coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEYN: President Trump delivered the traditional Turkey Pardon today at the White House. More than 40 million turkeys will be eaten this Thanksgiving. But two South Dakota birds named Peas and Carrots will be spared that fate at least until a Ninth Circuit Judge overturns the President's pardon.

You know, I' an - I'm an immigrant. But I thought when they said the President pardoned the turkey, I thought they were referring to the - him restoring Jim Acosta's press pass.

This is after the delivering the pardons, by the way. I can do this all day. After delivering the pardons, the President left for Mar-a-Lago where he will be spending the holiday.

That's about it for us tonight. Tune in each night at 8:00 to the show that's the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity, smugness, and groupthink.

Here is Sean, live from New York, with Senator Lindsey Graham.

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