This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," November 13, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, thank you, Bill, very, very much.

Well, changes delayed until after the election. We just heard from the U.S. Postal Service and the postmaster general saying that those controversial changes that had Democrats up in arms and even some Republicans concerned this could get in the way of some positive economic news, well, those are not going to happen until after the election.

Now, the question is, is that good enough to stave off still more plans by Democrats to not only meet on this matter, but make sure the president makes good on all of this?

Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto, and, well, this is “Your World”, and a busy world at that.

Never has the post office been the center of this kind of attention, dare I say, in the middle of a presidential election year. But it became a hot issue, just as the president's in Arizona right now saying that this is really much ado about nothing.

But the latest changes here at least put off some of the more onerous things that Democrats were saying would be problematic, to put it mildly, and maybe compromise our election system. Republicans say that's overstating it.

Nevertheless, the latest now from the White House and our John Roberts -- John.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And forgive the noise here. They're drilling for something at the White House, and not oil, by the way.

Democrats really have been turning up the heat on President Trump and the postmaster general, Louis DeJoy, over cost-cutting measures that had been implemented over the last few months at the post office.

In a statement, the postmaster general saying earlier today -- quote -- "There were some longstanding operational initiatives, efforts that predate my arrival to the Postal Service, that had been raised as areas of concern. As the nation prepares to hold an election in the midst of a devastating pandemic, to avoid even the appearance of any impact on election mail, I am suspending these initiatives until after the election is concluded."

DeJoy also assuring Americans retail hours at post offices will not change, mail processing equipment and blue collection boxes will remain where they are. No mail processing facilities will be closed. And overtime will be approved as needed.

The House is going to be voting on Saturday on giving the Postal Service an emergency $25 billion infusion of cash. This morning, the president asked about that emergency funding, but instead launched into a criticism of unsolicited mass mail-in voting.

Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The Democrats want to make it a political issue. It's not a political issue. It's really about a correct vote.

You can't have millions and millions of ballots sent all over the place, sent to people that are dead, sent to dogs, cats, sent everywhere.

This is a serious situation. This isn't games. And you have to get it right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: In that same statement, the postmaster general said he is confident that the U.S. Postal Service will be able to handle the volume of mail generated by mass mail-in voting, even though, Neil, the Postal Service warned a lot of states in just the last few days that any ballot that are -- any ballots that are postmarked on Election Day may not make it there within the required three days after the election.

DeJoy is going to be appearing before a Senate committee on Friday, and then a House committee on Monday. You can bet that the tone and tenor of the House committee will be a little different than the Senate on Friday.

CAVUTO: I would imagine.

All right, John Roberts, thank you very, very much.

The fast-moving developments on Capitol Hill right now.

I'm wondering, Chad Pergram, you have been following this, whether then Congress has to come back or will come back. Or is that still on?

CHAD PERGRAM, FOX NEWS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Just a couple of moments ago, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has put out a statement where she indicates that the House will forge ahead with this bill, $25 billion for the Postal Service.

She says that what the postmaster general proposed today is -- quote -- "insufficient." Now, a lot of Democrats are pretty dubious about what the postmaster general said he's going to do today.

Let's start with Gerry Connolly. He is a Democrat from Virginia. He says -- quote -- "DeJoy can't put the genie back in the bottle."

And other Democrats like Chris Van Hollen of Maryland are skeptical.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, D-MD: They got caught red-handed. The post office is enshrined in the Constitution. They all swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. They're violating that oath.

And we need to hold them to it to make sure that we have this election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: President Trump opposes vote by mail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You can't take millions of ballots, send them haphazardly all over the country or all over a state, and expect to come out properly.

And if you look at the last 10 elections, where they did this universal -- and, by the way, absentee is great. It's been working for a long time, like in Florida.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: Senate Governmental Affairs Committee Chairman Ron Johnson today announced that DeJoy will testify virtually before his committee on Friday.

Johnson says he wanted DeJoy to have the chance to get out his story before appearing before a House panel on Monday.

Now, as I said, the House of Representatives will forge ahead with that bill on Saturday. This will just be very specific to the Postal Service here.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer indicates that he doesn't anticipate any changes to that bill. Some Democrats are now starting to pressure Democratic leaders to include coronavirus aid, maybe unemployment aid on this bill, but it's probably going to stay just as is, just measures for the USPS -- Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, Chad Pergram, thank you very much.

Want to go Senator Mark Warner on all these developments, the Virginia Democrat, also Senate Intel Committee vice chair, Senate Finance Committee ranking member as well.

So, you know, Senator, first on the U.S. Postal Service, this cease-and- desist measure by the postmaster general to put off any of the changes they were contemplating until after the election.

Are you satisfied with that?

SEN. MARK WARNER, D-VA: Well, Neil, I'm really concerned.

I mean, the postmaster general came in, in the middle of June. And starting about the beginning of July, I started hearing from Virginians that their medicines weren't being delivered on time through the mail, that they were -- they would send in a bill that wouldn't get paid. They would get hit with a late fee.

People were sending packages. There were weeks of delay. And this was not anything to do with the election. It just -- it seemed like the mail service was grinding to a halt.

And then we see these photos of processing machines being taken out of states around the country. And then there was a sure indication 10 days ago, Neil, when the postmaster general, on Friday night, announced a series of management changes.

We all know you do something on Friday night if you want to try to keep it out of the press. That, combined then with the president's comments about trying to restrict vote-by-mail, and I think there was -- I'm glad the postmaster general reversed himself.

To make these kind of changes during the midst of a pandemic -- and we're not only talking about voting. We're talking about getting your medicine on time, getting your bills paid on time. It smelled more than a little bit fishy that all this took place right after Mr. DeJoy was appointed in the middle of June.

CAVUTO: Well, there was no mystery to the edict that he was under to clean up the Postal Service. It loses billions a year, as you know. I know it's not a moneymaking venture. Good thing, because it's nowhere close.

But do you believe that the flood of mail-in ballots that could eclipse 80 million this year, far more than double four years ago, would overwhelm a system like that?

WARNER: Well, let's break it into two parts, Neil.

There's first, why are people across the country complaining about this breakdown in the Postal Service when DeJoy comes in, cuts out on overtime, takes machines out, takes mailboxes out, not just in Democratic states, but really you are hearing people all across the country saying, why, in the midst of a pandemic, are you trying to make all these changes?

Then, on top of that, you do have DeJoy, clearly at the instigation of the president, who doesn't want mail-in voting -- and I don't understand the difference between what the president says mail-in voting and what he does himself with absentee voting in Florida.

And there are certain states that have had mail-in voting, Utah, Oregon, Washington state...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: But isn't mail-in voting exponentially a much larger number -- a much larger, Senator, isn't that a bit...

WARNER: I don't...

CAVUTO: It's that you're dealing with a large factor here, that the post office might have been ill-equipped to deal with in one fell swoop.

WARNER: But I -- but, Neil, my understanding, a state like ours, we have made it easier to vote absentee. You still have to request absentee.

And don't you think, in the midst of a pandemic, we should actually make it easy, if people are concerned about going to a polling place, to be able to vote by mail? The president does it. The president votes by mail.

So, I find the president's comments a little disingenuous. And I find Mr. DeJoy's business activities, from the kind of Friday night massacre of changing over a lot of the established leadership, and then this slowdown in service in the midst of a pandemic -- I'm glad he's reversed himself.

But, quite honestly, I don't think Americans, whether it's about voting or waiting on your medicine being delivered, ought to rely on his good graces.

I do think it's appropriate that the House comes back to pass this legislation.

CAVUTO: Well, no, I definitely see your point, Senator, but we're compounding two different matters, right, absentee ballots, much smaller number than overall mail-in ballots.

And you're quite correct to say we have got to prepare for the day we might have such an overwhelming mail-in response. That's the way to go.

But, while I have got you, if you don't mind, this whole issue, and from your perch on the Intelligence Committee, where the Senate Intel now says the FBI gave unjustified credence to this Steele dossier, and that the most you can blame the Trump campaign for was naivete and inexperience at being maybe potentially used by the Russians, what did you think of that and that finding?

(LAUGHTER)

WARNER: Well, Neil, I -- this is a 1,000-page report.

And I urge you and I urge every American to read it thoroughly. And one of the reasons why it was so bipartisan, all five volumes, is, we pointed out when the FBI made mistakes. We also pointed out, there was an unprecedented level of Russian intervention, and there was willing acceptance from a lot of folks on the Trump campaign.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: No, I understand. I understand that, Senator.

WARNER: So, let's again -- let's just point out both sides of what our...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: But do you believe that the Russians -- no, no, sir, I just want to be clear. I want to be clear.

Do you believe that the Russians took advantage of the Trump transition team, that it was not the other way around?

WARNER: I believe the Russians clearly had a preference for Donald Trump.

I think the Trump campaign was looking for dirt on Hillary Clinton. And I think there was an unprecedented level of communication.

When the then campaign manager Paul Manafort shares insider campaign information with a Russian intelligence official, that's not good for anybody.

CAVUTO: All right, Senator, thank you very much.

I know we hopscotched over a few issues today. I appreciate it.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Senator Mark Warner of Virginia here.

In the meantime, I do want to get the read on all these developments, because they were all occurring simultaneously today, with Frank Luntz.

First on the Postal Service situation, Frank, how much does that reverberate with Americans, many of whom really can't separate between absentee ballots, mail-in ballots, something about the post office, and whether it needed to clean up its act, or the president was using the post office to prevent ballots.

Do people seize on that or -- I always see people see it through their own political prism and bias, but what about you?

FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER: You're correct.

And one of the problems is that the support or belief in our democratic systems, and, in this case in the election, to actually be held in a fair and free manner is at an all-time low.

And I'm really frightened not just about collecting the votes on Election Day and the days before and days after. I'm frightened that you will have one candidate ahead at the beginning on election night, and then, as the postal votes come in, you will have another candidate win.

And you're going to have a belief that the election was stolen. Neil, at a certain point, you hit that breaking point, when the public says: I simply don't believe that this democracy is being operated in a free and fair fashion.

And I will tell you, with all concern and sincerity, that I think we are hitting that point. And I'm looking at that Wednesday and that Thursday, because I believe that Republicans tend to vote early. Democrats tend to vote by mail. Republicans like to vote on Election Day and keep that tradition. Democrats are more likely to be working, because they're younger. And so they will vote by mail.

And I think you could have a situation where Donald Trump is leading on election night. And, as the days go on, and the votes by postal are counted, that then that could give an advantage to Joe Biden and, while it is an accurate accounting, that some Trump people will feel like the election is stolen.

And we can't have that now, not with everything else that has gone wrong in this country at this time.

CAVUTO: All right, the convention, what you have seen of it thus far, virtual, ratings are down for four years ago. Could be the virtual nature of it. The real live -- liveliness of a convention is gone.

Will Republicans be dealing with the same problem?

LUNTZ: I think Republicans are more likely to watch. Republicans are more likely to want to see Donald Trump than Democrats are to see Joe Biden or the campaign overall.

The fact that it has dropped 28 percent is significant, but still 18 million people tuned in. And that's a significant slice of the electorate. I think that you cannot really compare this to the past. What you will have to do is see whether Republicans watch or not.

But, Neil, the key are those undecided voters? Are they watching? Are they learning anything from this? Are they being moved? Those are the people I'm watching. It represents only 6 percent of the country. And only 11 states really matter in this election.

So, this entire network process, these conventions, are being fought over 2.4 percent of America. Let's see what they think by the time this is done.

CAVUTO: That's very interesting.

Frank, good catching up with you, my friend.

LUNTZ: Thank you.

CAVUTO: Frank Luntz following all of that.

By the way, I'd be remiss if I wanted to point out something that a lot of people overlooked today. We had another market record today. The S&P finally got back into record territory today. The Nasdaq, because it was at a record yesterday, did so again. The Dow was down. But that is the Dow.

I'm talking about the S&P. I'm talking about the Nasdaq, the highest they have ever been. All the major market averages are back more than 50 percent from their lows in March, when we were supposedly careening into a recession or worse. That was then.

Only the Dow has to get back to make this a hat trick. And, right now, it's about 5 percent away.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, talk about a study in contrasts.

Among the big speeches tonight, besides Dr. Jill Biden and all of that, is the fact that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will be speaking. We're told she's been allocated a minute, and former President Bill Clinton, the great moderate candidate who tried to push the party into the mainstream, got elected twice doing that.

That was then. What happens right now?

Gary Kaltbaum, there are two very different versions in their two views of where the Democratic Party should go and where we as a nation should go. Bill Clinton will probably try to stress the moderating influences that are winning tickets for any successful party.

He might be concerned with the leftward lurch in the party right now. Joe Biden might be able to disavow people of that notion when he speaks, but what is your sense of what Democrats are presenting to the American people?

GARY KALTBAUM, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I think Joe Biden has have the voters of AOC and Bernie Sanders for the election.

But I'm pretty sure he's not going where they have been. Bernie Sanders is on video calling for 100 percent tax rate on anybody making above a million dollars. And, of course, you got that Green New Deal that we picked apart left and right. And it is basically fantasyland.

So they're going to have to sell down the middle, but they're coming out with a $4 trillion tax hike going forward. And they're trying to sell it based on, we're going after the wealthy. But, unfortunately, it hits everybody down the line.

And I must say there's one tax in there, the Social Security tax, anything above $400,000, 12.4 percent, split by the employer and the employee. We're talking about, if you live in a high-tax state, you're nearing 60 percent tax rate.

I'm surprised Republicans aren't yelling and screaming about that just yet.

CAVUTO: We do know the president has been doing a lot of yelling and screaming about the markets and the comeback. We mentioned earlier, Gary, as you know better than anyone, the S&P joined the Nasdaq in record territory, which itself hit another record today, the Dow not that far away.

But typically Democrats responding that say, it's the markets, it's a few people, fat cats like Gary Kaltbaum, and that's it. So we're here for America.

What do you tell them when you hear stuff like that?

KALTBAUM: As far as an election, every Dow point is going to count. People have their money in 401(k)s, all type of retirement plans.

And it also tells you a little bit about the country and where we sit. And, by the way, Neil, I heard you talking about the Dow being down 5 percent, Boeing is 1,900 points below its high because of their problems.

If that was gone by the wayside, it'd be...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: You're right. You're exactly right.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: And, by the way, Apple now at a $2 trillion market value.

And I'm wondering. A lot of people hear that too and say, how does that possibly connect to me, an election year, that Apple is doing great, Amazon's doing great? Jeff Bezos has more money than most countries on Earth.

Does it look too Republican? How do you counter that?

KALTBAUM: These companies are hiring hundreds of thousands of people. They're bringing on a ton of people. And a lot of people do own these stocks.

These are very noisy companies right now. And aunt Mary and uncle Bob are going on these Robinhood platforms and buying them left and right. So I think people are a lot more involved than anybody says.

And, look, we're in election season. The Democrats have to downplay the market. The Republicans have to up-play the market, and rightfully so.

Look, I do believe the fact that markets go up are a boon to the incumbent, because it speaks volumes. And, again, I have to say this. I have said this all along. Every Dow point counts. And if you go back to Obama-McCain, when the market was crashing at that point in time, when McCain came out of the convention, he was actually leading, and then the markets went bye-bye, and guess what happened?

Obama took it going away. So, it will definitely matter.

(CROSSTALK)

KALTBAUM: Sorry.

CAVUTO: We had the great financial meltdown. You're right about that.

Thank you, my friend, very much, Gary Kaltbaum on all of that.

So, history could be in the making here. You already know that with these virtual conventions, Democrats this week, Republicans next week. Never had that before.

Doris Kearns Goodwin on maybe we're learning something along the way -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, the president arriving in Yuma, Arizona.

He continues visiting key battleground states, as Democrats convene virtually in Wisconsin, actually throughout the country.

The fallout from a president who's not going to be a passive player.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: Now it is time for the big dog.

You want to fill these seats fast and every single one of them even faster? You bring on the big dog, Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton can not only whip up a crowd. He can sell your story way, way beyond this convention hall.

FORMER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: I want to nominate a man who's cool on the outside, but who burns for America on the inside?

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: We always come back. We come through every fire a little stronger and a little better. This will change the future for young Americans.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: All right, well, they might have called him the big dog back then, but let's just say, yes, Bill Clinton is not as big a dog right now in a party that has veered sharply left.

It was a concern early in the season for Bill Clinton and, for a while, we're told, Barack Obama, even though right now much of the language we're getting out of Democrats, certainly not all, is a lot more progressive, a lot more hard left than that.

But, to be fair here, all sides will be represented, Bill Clinton making a speech tonight, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as well.

Doris Kearns Goodwin on maybe this search for the soul of a party, or maybe it's the entire party. The bestselling historian, multiple bestseller, period, joins us right now.

Doris, it's always good to have you.

DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: You too, Neil. I'm glad to be with you.

CAVUTO: What do you make of that? It's odd, but...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Same here.

When I knew that Bill Clinton was on the docket, I mean, that's a big deal, juxtaposed, though, against some of these big government, aggressive, Medicare for all, Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez types.

Who are the Democrats? Who is this ticket?

GOODWIN: Well, I think the most important thing that the party, any party, Democratic Party now, Republicans next week, you want to project unity. So you have these various people that represent wings of the party, but they're all hewing to a certain kind of tone.

And then at the same time, you want to mobilize all your supporters. You want to excite the various wings of the party. I mean, it's an interesting thing to think about that clip you just played of Bill Clinton, because when he speaks tonight, obviously, it's going to be virtually.

You're not going to have the people saying, yes, and listening to it.

CAVUTO: Right. Right.

GOODWIN: So, I think the key -- the key for these speakers -- and I think that's why Michelle's worked last night, Mrs. Obama's -- is, you almost have to make it like a fireside chat, just like FDR did.

He's just talking to a microphone, and yet people feel it's conversational, that you're speaking to them in your living room. There's that guy who was running home, a construction worker, and his partner said, on one of the nights that the fireside chat of FDR was going on, where you going? Well, my president is coming to speak to me in my living room tonight. It's only right I be there to greet him when he comes.

That's going to be the key. You can't scream. You can't have this passionate one-minuter. You have to realize you're talking to people, the audience isn't there, and you have to think that you're talking to them individually.

So, the whole tone, I think, will be different than one side saying, hah, this is what we want, and another side saying -- I think the tone will be much more moderate. And that's the important thing for them to project this unity.

CAVUTO: Doris, you always warn me not to seize on polls, and, sure enough, I hear that, but I seize on polls nevertheless.

And one thing that comes up -- and it's early -- and it can change, to your point -- is the passion count for each candidate. The market lore, the political lore is that Donald Trump supporters are passionate, rabid about the guy, and they will walk over broken glass and hot charcoals to show up at the polls.

Joe Biden's not so much, but they are galvanized by not wanting to see the other guy reelected. I'm just wondering how that plays out this election year, from what you can see.

GOODWIN: Well, the most important thing is who gets to the poll and who's going to vote.

And I think about something. It's in a weird memory way, way back, not from my own memory, but Abraham Lincoln, in this time in August of 1864. And all the Republicans worried that he would never win the election, that he wouldn't have a chance, because the war was going really badly.

Think about it. I mean, Grant is stuck in Petersburg. That mood is very, very sad in the North. Hundreds of thousands are dead. There's a feeling that the reason it's going on so long is because of emancipation.

So they come to Lincoln. They say, the only way you can win is if you call a peace conference on the basis of just restoring the Union, and not talking about emancipation. He throws them out of the room, essentially. And he said, "I would be damned in time and eternity if I did that."

They think he's going to lose. Events change. Atlanta falls in September, and then he wins the election with the twin goals still there.

So we're still a long way from when the election is. Timing is going to matter. Where are we on the virus? Where are we on the economy?

CAVUTO: Sure.

GOODWIN: And how do people feel about the country?

And that's going to determine who comes out to vote and who's going to win this election.

CAVUTO: Doris, speaking of Abraham Lincoln, and, of course, your famous book "Team of Rivals" on that, I'm wondering that if a Joe Biden were to get into the Oval Office, and much attention is focused on Kamala Harris, as it should be, an historic choice, a black woman who's on a presidential ticket.

But there is a distinct possibility that Susan Rice could have a prominent role in this administration as well, Elizabeth Warren, certainly an influential role on economic policy. So, you could have a modern-day team of rivals, if that -- if that ticket were to get there.

Do you envision that?

GOODWIN: I think that's very likely.

I mean, I think one of the things that's a strength of a leader, we know from history, is the willingness to surround yourself with people who can argue with you, question your assumptions, as long as you preserve the right to be the one who makes the final ultimate decision.

But I think we want people to listen to those different points of view. So, especially given the age of Mr. Biden right now, to surround himself with a team, and not simply the team that you just mentioned, but some younger people, I mean, one of the things I think we're going to see tonight and in the Republican Convention next week, who are the future stars?

That's what's so interesting in these conventions. I mean, FDR emerges in 1924 at this otherwise chaotic convention, 103 ballots, 10 days in New York. They can't even pick a nominee.

CAVUTO: Right. Right.

GOODWIN: But he comes, and it's the first time that he's able to be seen in public after his polio.

And he manages to get up on that stage by practicing, practicing with crutches. And here's the future, FDR.

JFK becomes the future in 1956, when the Stevenson decides to throw up in the convention, vice presidential choice. And Ronald Reagan becomes the future in 1976, when Ford invites him after he's won the nomination, and he wants that unity.

So I think -- and Obama, of course, becomes it in the -- when he gives that great speech in 2008 -- 2004. So, that's the other thing we should be looking for. There are people sitting out...

CAVUTO: In 2004, right, at Kerry's convention.

GOODWIN: 2004, of course, exactly, at Kerry's convention.

CAVUTO: Right.

GOODWIN: So, we're going to see people this week and next week sitting there, hoping....

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Future stars could be in the making.

On the issue of yes-men and women, I prefer to surround myself with people who flatter me and praise me and never argue with me.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: So, I don't subscribe to that view that you had.

But could I get your take on -- this is a curious thing, but...

GOODWIN: Well, old Abe will argue with you.

CAVUTO: I know he will, all right.

But this notion right now is that you need young people. The Kamala Harris pick is a way to focus on more the excitement of the ticket. But the guy himself, Joe Biden, there's this rap that he's lost his fastball, that he's a little slower than he used to be.

Look, you get old, I get old. I always tell my guests, I don't remember what I had for breakfast this morning, Doris, so who am I to judge?

But do you think it's noticeable now? Say what you will of Donald Trump, fast on his feet, very good off the cuff, again, that he could in debates change this, because it just appears that Biden isn't up to that, and that Democrats are kind of worried about that.

They don't say it, but they feel it. What do you think?

GOODWIN: I will tell you two things.

I mean, I think the expectations are precisely that, that he might not do well in the debate. If he does, then that whole change of advantage will go.

But I think the idea that we -- I think this for years -- that the debates matter as much as they did is nuts. What matters is, what kind of a leader is this person going to be? How many times is a president debating somebody else when they're president?

How many times are they asked to be quick on their feet at that moment? It's much more important, what kind of human qualities do they have? Are they going to be able to take responsibility? Are they going to show empathy?

CAVUTO: No doubt. No doubt.

But that debate -- that debate -- that debate can show whether you're up to the job...

GOODWIN: But it's there. You're right.

CAVUTO: ... I mean, whether -- right?

I mean, John Kennedy had that, that, yes, this guy looks like he could be a good president. Ronald Reagan had that in his one and only debate with Carter. Yes, yes, I could see him do it.

So I'm just talking about how it introduces them to the American people.

GOODWIN: I mean, I agree with you that it makes a huge difference, because the journalists make it make a big difference.

What I'm trying to argue is...

CAVUTO: Yes, you're right.

GOODWIN: ... I'm not sure that it should be the ultimate standard for how we decide who becomes our president.

Television has made it that way. It's a great spectacle. It's what we talk about when somebody makes a mistake or somebody does a great thing.

CAVUTO: Yes.

GOODWIN: But when you think about what it really takes to lead a nation, is that the most important quality?

We should be looking at, what kind of a leader are they? What relationship do they have to the people they lead?

CAVUTO: All right.

GOODWIN: How do they surround themselves with what kind of people?

Those other things we talked about are much more important. I have been arguing this for years. It has nothing to do with this election. Sometimes, these debates drive me crazy.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Doris, you maybe didn't hear me at the beginning when I said I like to surround myself with people who are agreeing with me, and not arguing with my premise.

GOODWIN: I did hear you.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: All right, very good job.

By the way. I'm noticing the books in back of you. Now, you have written, what, 300 of them. Not a one. Not one of your books.

GOODWIN: No, I have only written seven.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Oh, I'm kidding.

(CROSSTALK)

GOODWIN: These are my presidents behind me.

CAVUTO: I gotcha. I gotcha.

GOODWIN: False modesty, of course.

CAVUTO: I do notice the one nice picture.

GOODWIN: You're the best.

CAVUTO: But me, I would put them all behind me and just say, there's -- look at me, world. Look at me.

Doris Kearns Goodwin, always great seeing you.

And she could be -- we are fascinated in debates, right, that there the be- all and end-all. Maybe not. Maybe not at all.

Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, who cares about the Democrats having their convention?

The president not playing a standby, passive role here, now in another battleground state, just arriving in Yuma, Arizona.

Alicia Acuna with the latest on what he's planning to do -- Alicia.

ALICIA ACUNA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Neil.

Yes, it's really starting to feel like regular old campaign season again. President Trump is here in Yuma, where he will receive the endorsement of the National Border Patrol Council. That's the Border Patrol union. Its members here behind me. They have COVID masks on with -- emblazoned with the words MAGA and Trump.

Now, once he receives an update on security here at the U.S. border, he will speak before this crowd of people in this hangar here in Yuma. It's -- by the way, it's 109 degrees, and it's only going to get four degrees hotter.

But there is a crowd here. It's going to seem more like a rally, but not exactly the size of Trump style, a little bit smaller. This is his second trip here in less than two months, because FOX News and others say the data shows this is a tossup state in the presidential election.

Former Vice President Biden leads the president here by two points. President Trump was hit hard last night by a young woman in the Democratic Convention, who says her Arizona father who voted for Mr. Trump believed him when he said the virus would go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTIN URQUIZA, DAUGHTER OF CORONAVIRUS VICTIM: My dad was a healthy 65- year-old. His only preexisting condition was trusting Donald Trump. And, for that, he paid with his life.

Enough is enough. Donald Trump may not have caused the coronavirus, but his dishonesty and his irresponsible actions made it so much worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACUNA: Other signs giving hope to Democrats, former Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, an illegal immigration firebrand, just lost a primary bid to reclaim his old office, which he lost to a Democrat in 2018.

Two years ago, Kyrsten Sinema flipped the once solidly red U.S. Senate seat to blue when she beat Republican Martha McSally, who was later appointed to complete the remainder of the late Senator John McCain's term. She now trails Democrat Mark Kelly.

However, Neil, the number of independents in this state, registered independence, has grown. I have covered multiple elections here. It seems like every time the Democrats say, this is our year, they're saying it again, but Republicans are saying, don't count us out yet -- Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, thank you very, very much.

Just look at the bright side, Alicia. It might be 109 degrees, but it's a dry heat. I guess that's not going to fly.

All right, Bill Hemmer joins us right now.

BILL HEMMER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Hey, Neil. Yes.

CAVUTO: Bill has been keeping track of the electoral vote counts in these battleground states and everything else.

And, man, oh, man, Arizona is certainly among, just like Minnesota, Wisconsin yesterday.

HEMMER: Indeed. Indeed.

Doris wasn't cutting you much of a break, was she, Neil? But I'm going to...

CAVUTO: No, she was not.

(LAUGHTER)

HEMMER: I'm going to show you some love at the end of this, OK, Neil?

You're talking about Arizona. You're talking about the battleground states and the emphasis the president has put on these particular states over the past two days alone.

Everything you see in gray here, Neil, we consider these to be tossup states. And you will see Texas and Georgia. I will explain that in a moment here.

Need to get to 270. At the moment, we think Biden's 213 and Trump is 126. You're going to see how the president, he threads the needle in 2016. If he does it again, he gets a second term. So, Iowa was today. And you can watch the numbers change.

Arizona right now, you see the numbers change. And then you come back to the East Coast. Neil, let's say that Texas really isn't the tossup that they think it is or Georgia, for that matter. At that point, it's at 197.

So where does he go on this map now to defend the title? He won Florida by 100,000 votes, won North Carolina by 3.5 percentage points, won Ohio by about 7 percentage points. So, now you're knocking on the door at 259.

Where do you go in the Upper Midwest? Here? Do you hold Wisconsin? If you do, you're still one shy. What about Michigan? Can you hold Michigan? If you do, you get yourself a second term.

Notice I haven't talked about Pennsylvania at all. And I think, Neil, over the next 70-some-odd days, you're going to come back to this scenario a lot, because Pennsylvania really holds the key to, I guess the kingdom for Joe Biden, because, at 213, watch this here.

He threads the needle in Pennsylvania and Florida, and look how close Joe Biden would be to taking over the presidency and the White House. Just up here in the Upper Midwest, maybe you defend Minnesota. That gets you to 270. Maybe a flipped Wisconsin, which went Republican four years ago, that would get him as well.

So we're going to play with this thing a lot. And you can do a lot of different scenarios, too, Neil over the next 70 some days. But you were talking about the debate a moment ago with Doris Kearns Goodwin.

I tell you, look on the calendar here. At the moment in August, we have got the Democratic Convention and Republican Convention next week. In September. Six weeks from tonight is debate number one.

I don't know where you will be, Neil. A lot of people will be ready to watch that thing, a debate in Cleveland, Ohio. If it stands, if it holds, is it in person? Is it virtual? How do these two men go at it mano a mano?

That's what I'm waiting for at the end of September, six weeks from tonight.

I told you I would give you some love in the end there.

CAVUTO: Yes, thank God.

And, see, you were just pointing out, they are important.

HEMMER: Big time.

CAVUTO: And Doris was rightly pointing out, whatever skill set you have there is not really how we judge our presidents. Abraham Lincoln wouldn't have done well, if that were the case.

But I'm just saying, it matters just to get to that job. We will see.

HEMMER: See you later on.

CAVUTO: We will see. We will see.

Great stuff, my friend.

HEMMER: Thank you, Neil.

CAVUTO: Thank you very much, Bill Hemmer, on all of that.

There are three debates, of course, and then the vice presidential candidates have their own debate. Who knows. It will go a long way toward wrapping this up or not wrapping this up. It could be totally inconsequential. But I will just burn the tape where I said it would be consequential if that were to happen.

You can't burn tape anymore. It's all digital, right?

We will have more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, it's not that it's not, the economy, stupid, more these days, it's COVID-19, stupid.

Jonathan Serrie on some revealing numbers out about how we feel about the virus right now -- Jonathan.

JONATHAN SERRIE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Neil.

Franklin Templeton/Gallup survey took a look at the understanding of average Americans on the level of risk COVID-19 presents to different age groups. And they found that we on average really don't have a very good understanding. We overestimate the risk for some age groups and underestimate for others.

Take a look at this chart to show you what I mean. The survey suggests Americans believe people under the age of 25 represent 8 percent of COVID- 19 fatalities, when the true figure, according to the CDC, is just two- tenths of a percent.

But they believe Americans 65 and older represent less than 40 percent of coronavirus fatalities, when the true figure for that age group, according to the CDC, is 80 percent.

This is important, because it suggests average citizens may not fully understand the importance of protecting older Americans from coronavirus infection.

At the same time, while we overestimate the fatality risk for younger people, it's still important for these young people to avoid infection as well, because they pose a risk of spreading the virus to others.

And because their cases are more likely to be mild or even asymptomatic, they're at greater risk of unwittingly spreading the disease if they're not wearing masks or practicing social distancing.

In fact, Neil, today, the World Health Organization announced that people in their 20s, 30s and 40s are increasingly driving the spread of the pandemic -- Neil, back to you.

CAVUTO: That's wild.

Jonathan Serrie, thank you very, very much.

Well, who says you have to have empty stadiums when the pros hit the field, that is the NFL, in just a few weeks? How about 15,000 of them in the stands?

What they're planning -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: So, football fans in the stands?

Jared Max here.

Is that really going to happen, Jared?

JARED MAX, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Neil.

Yes, there are going to be football fans in the stands, as of now, as long as there's games. Neil, I don't think I have ever used the word scheduled so much in one year as a broadcaster, because we always want to be right, and you want to say that a game is scheduled.

So, scheduled, we have fans that are supposed to go to games. The Kansas City Chiefs, the defending Super Bowl champs, say that they will have that 22 percent capacity at Arrowhead Stadium. So that equals about 16,000 fans.

And how this works, this team wants to work in pods, maybe having guests of no more than six people that would sit in an area. And think about it, Neil. A football stadium is pretty large. That's a lot of open space. It's not like you're on a small airplane and have to find room to spread out.

So the teams wanted to do it in the safest way possible and still have real fans there.

CAVUTO: Now, are other teams contemplating this as well, or is it sort of team by team, owner by owner?

MAX: The majority of teams in the NFL, Neil, are saying that they would like to have fans at their games at some point during the season.

There are some teams, like in the area where we're broadcasting from, the New York Giants and New York Jets, who won't be having fans at their games in New Jersey. But there are still about five or six teams right now that do have somewhat plans in place.

The New England Patriots are one of them. But the Patriots just said today that they're not going to have fans for the month of September at their games. In addition to the Chiefs, you have the Cowboys, who very well will have fans at games, the Indianapolis Colts, the Jacksonville Jaguars on that list as well.

You have six teams in all, Patriots, Jaguars, Chiefs, Cowboys, Packers, and the Colts, and several other teams who still want to be able to do it. But, again, time will tell. And it all matters what local and state officials will allow.

CAVUTO: And ratings for baseball, real quickly, they have not had fans in the stand. How have the ratings held up through all of this?

MAX: Neil, I don't know about you, but, as a baseball fan, to tune in and know that there's a game on every night, I enjoy watching the games.

It's tough to even -- when we talk about ratings, these aren't normal times. So, what are advertising dollars actually worth per actual rating? So, I don't want to go too much in the numbers in that.

But when I watch a game, I like seeing the fake fans in the seats, as opposed to an empty ballpark. I don't need that much of a reminder that we're in such strange times.

CAVUTO: All right.

And, remember, Fox Broadcasting came up with that idea, so it's brilliant.

All right, here's "The Five."

MAX: I love it. Trick me.

END

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