Sen. Tim Scott on race and rage in America

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Sen. Tim Scott on race and rage in America

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Chris Wallace.

In the midst of the pandemic, the U.S. faces another crisis as old as the nation.

This is a "FOX News Sunday" special on Minneapolis, race and rage in America.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: Protesters calling for justice after the death of an unarmed black man in police custody.

GOV. TIM WALZ (D), MINNESOTA: Minneapolis and St. Paul are on fire. The fires still smolder in our streets.

WALLACE: Demonstrators taking to the streets across the country over the death of George Floyd and past incidents in their cities.

And now, the police officer at the heart of the Floyd case faces charges of third-degree murder and manslaughter.

WALZ: Generations of pain is manifesting itself in front of the world and the world is watching.

WALLACE: This hour, we'll get the latest on the case from Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison. We'll discuss how to heal the divide between the black community and law enforcement with Andy Skoogman, head of the Minnesota chiefs of police.

And why in the year 2020 is race still such a flash point? We're joined by Professor Cornel West and South Carolina Senator Tim Scott.

Then, Twitter tags the president's tweet on how to stop the Minneapolis riots for glorifying violence. We'll ask our Sunday panel about the new battle between the president and big tech.

And our power player of the week, this author's new work of fiction hits close to home.

LAWRENCE WRIGHT, AUTHOR, "THE END OF OCTOBER": The question was, what would happen if we had a pandemic?

WALLACE: All, right now, on "FOX News Sunday".

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And hello again from FOX News in Washington.

A nation already on edge now pushed to the brink. The coronavirus claiming more than 100,000 lives and some 40 million jobs, and now, the video recorded death of an unarmed black man in police custody acting like a match tossed on a tinderbox.

Tens of thousands taking to the streets overnight in more than 75 cities across the country. As some protests turn violent, the National Guard was deployed, and curfews were imposed in more than two dozen cities, the most at one time since the civil unrest of the 1960s. That is our focus this hour.

In a moment, we'll talk with Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison about the George Floyd case and what it says about race in America in 2020.

But, first, let's bring in Matt Finn in Minneapolis with the latest on another night of protests across the country -- Matt.

MATT FINN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Chris, there's been a seemingly endless cloud of acrid smoke here in Minneapolis, a combination of fires and teargas. The city has been under siege, but it appears that law enforcement might have finally gained some ground overnight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FINN: A fifth straight night of protests in Minneapolis met by a much stronger police presence. Rioters violated the curfew and clashed with officers once again, even shooting at them.

JACOB FREY (D), MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR: You're not getting back at the police officer that tragically killed George Floyd by looting a town.

FINN: In Indianapolis, police investigating multiple shootings amid the protests, including one that left a person dead. In New York, protests in all five boroughs, some turn to violence. NYPD squad cars set on fire. Molotov cocktails thrown at police.

A state of emergency declared in Los Angeles where the unrest invoked memories of Rodney King. The mayor asking for National Guard assistance after initially resisting using troops. In the nation's capital, protests once again in front of the White House, defying the president's claim on Twitter that protesters could face vicious dogs if they cross the fence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FINN: And in an extraordinary move, the Pentagon has said it's ready to provide military support should Minnesota's governor request their assistance. So far he has not -- Chris.

WALLACE: Matt Finn reporting for Minneapolis -- Matt, thank you.

And joining us now Minnesota's Attorney General Keith Ellison.

Mr. Attorney General over the last five days we've seen rioters in Minneapolis burn down a police station, force the National Guard to retreat, and loot neighborhoods.

On Saturday, here's what Attorney General Barr had to say.

(BEGIN CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: Groups of outside radicals and agitators are exploiting the situation to pursue their own separate and violent agenda.

(END CLIP)

WALLACE: Do you have evidence that people from outside Minnesota, whether it's far left extremists or white supremacists, that outsiders are hijacking these riots in Minneapolis?

KEITH ELLISON, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF MINNESOTA: We have evidence that outsiders have been present and in some cases have played a very negative role. But I've been talking with protestors and trying to get a sense of who some of these folks are and I've heard mixed things.

Some of the negative stuff has come from people in Minnesota and some of it has come from people on the outside. What I'd say is we've got enough to handle on our own and that what we really need to do is refocus on justice for Mr. Floyd. And the negative behavior, looting, arson, does not help us achieve that goal.

WALLACE: On Friday you urged the people of Minneapolis not to react to the National Guard in the streets the way they would to local police. I want to put up something you said, please remember that this is not the group that you associate with unfair authority.

Question, do Blacks in Minneapolis have reason to distrust or even to fear their local police?

ELLISON: Sadly yes. There is a history of that. It has been repeated time and time again. I want to say that many officers are great people. I know so many of them and I think the chief is an extraordinary person and the mayor and the council deserve a lot of credit for appointing Mr. Arradondo. But it is an endemic problem in (ph) Minneapolis Police Department.

One problem is our Police Federation president operates as sort of an alternative chief who, I think, undermines good order in the department. So we have -- our challenge is in front of us. And I think that we can reform, we will reform, and there's a lot of great officers who want to reform. And it's good to have a chief that wants to reform.

WALLACE: While you have been consistent in condemning the violence, on Friday you quoted Martin Luther King saying, riot is the way the unheard get heard. Are you suggesting that something good may come from the violence in the streets in Minneapolis this week?

ELLISON: No, the violence really is a negative thing. But I think what Martin Luther King was trying to say is rather -- he -- rather than simply dismiss the outrage and the rage that people express after decades -- really, really, really actually centuries, of states sponsored oppression for African Americans, let's look at the roots of that rage and try to address it rather than just pound it down with massive force.

I mean people are upset for a reason. And to dismiss those reasons means we're going to be relegated to dealing with them again and again and again. I mean it was -- actually it was John F. Kennedy who said, where peaceful change is made impossible, violent change is inevitable. And these are not statements about what they believe should happen, they're statements about what does happen. And so I think that's really what the spirit of the comment was.

WALLACE: I want to drill down on this specific case, the fired police officer Derek Chauvin was charged with third degree murder, not second degree murder, which has a much stiffer penalty -- second degree does. And the big difference has to do with what he intended to do, whether he intended to kill George Floyd, I have to say we're putting up the video now and it's hard to see anything other than -- and (ph) even questionable about his intent when he kept his neck -- his knee on his neck for nine minutes including three minutes when he was no longer responsive. But, I guess, two questions.

First of all, are you comfortable with the charge of third degree murder, which means he didn't intend to kill him? And secondly, how do you respond to the Floyd family, members of which are saying that they would like to see you take over the prosecution of this case as a special prosecutor?

ELLISON: Well, let me say that we are very early in this process -- very early. It is not uncommon to amend charges. It is not uncommon to add defendants. The fact is that the investigation is still going on and it actually -- it's actually in the middle of the investigation -- or maybe even the beginning of the middle. And so I don't want anyone to conclude that these are all the charges that are going be there.

You know, to ask people to be patient who have suffered so long and been denied justice so long is really asking a lot of them. But if you want to make sure that this case results in a successful prosecution, you got to understand the defense attorneys who are going to be on the other side are very skillful and they will try to break every single link in the prosecutorial chain. So I ask people no (ph), don't rush this thing. Let's get this thing right.

Remember the Walter Scott jury hung (ph), the Rodney King jury came back acquitting the defendants. These cases which looked so obvious to us watching video tape, you get them into trial with some really good lawyers and things can go (inaudible), very different direction. So let's get this thing right.

As it relates to my role, I am standing behind the process at this point. And the process is that the county attorney has primary jurisdiction. I will say that I'm always there to assist the cause of justice, in anyway that I can, but I am backing up Minnesota state law, which means the primary --

WALLACE: Right.

ELLISON: -- authority at this point is the state -- is the county.

WALLACE: Finally, and I got a little over a minute left here so I need a quick answer from you. As Attorney General you're part of the power structure in Minnesota and you have talked in the last few days about a deep dive reform, we're going to fix a broken society. But the fact is those were exactly the same things that were being said four years ago after a police officer shot and killed Philando Castile at a traffic stop. And, in fact, Castile -- the officer who shot him, was acquitted.

So why, I guess, frankly, should we believe -- why should people in the community believe you anymore than the people who were making those same assurances four years ago?

ELLISON: Fair question. I will tell you that we did have a year long task force on preventing deadly force encounters with police. We issued a report in February. We had law enforcement community civil rights. We had people all over the state of Minnesota. This is a real serious deeply rooted problem, Chris, and I'm committed in the long term.

I believe the Commissioner of Public Safety John Harrington is -- and the governor is -- look, I'll tell you, you know who used to -- who called for real (ph) change? Martin Luther King called for it. He was talking about police brutality back in the ‘60s. This problem is not a simple problem nor is it a localized problem. We all have to embrace change and move forward. And maybe this can help us do it.

WALLACE: Attorney General Ellison, thank you. Thanks for your time, sir. And it's good to speak with you.

ELLISON: Thank you, sir.

WALLACE: Up next, we'll talk with the head of Minnesota's chiefs of police association about the use of force by law enforcement and how to prevent more unnecessary deaths.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: Police departments across the country are reviewing procedures after video showing the death of George Floyd while in custody.

Joining us now, Andy Skoogman, executive director of the Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association which represents 300 law enforcement officials in that state.

Mr. Skoogman, after this terrible incident this week you put out a statement that your association was, quote, "appalled" by Derek Chauvin, the police officer's actions and you applauded the fact that the police chief in Minneapolis fired all four of the officers involved in the incident. Why?

ANDY SKOOGMAN, MINNESOTA CHIEFS OF POLICE ASSOCIATION: Well, Chris, good morning. Thanks for the opportunity.

You know, I think there's -- when we spoke last week, you and I spoke, I think there's a national narrative, or there had been last week, that police officers in Minnesota are being trained in the technique that Derek Chauvin used and that is simply not the case. It is the furthest from the truth that exist.

We did condemn the actions of the officer, not only the technique used by Derek Chauvin, but the lack of empathy shown by the other officers on the scene. We did commend Chief Medaria Arradondo from Minneapolis for his quick actions in terminating those officers and, you know, maybe lay -- lay folks don't understand but the ability to terminate an officer that quickly is unprecedented, it doesn't happen very much.

So, as Attorney General Keith Ellison said in your previous segment, Medaria Arradondo is a phenomenal police chief and he did all the right things here.

What those officers did in that video certainly not aligned with all the values that the chief of Minneapolis has worked to instill over his tenure.

WALLACE: I want to -- I want to pick up, though, because the police report that was filed after the incident said that George Floyd, the man who was killed, resisted arrest and it also said that he died at the hospital when in fact it appears clear that he was dead at the scene. Those were both lies, which raises the question, if there had not been a video in this case, isn't it possible, even likely, that these four officers would still be on the street?

SKOOGMAN: Well, Chris, you know, I really am not privy to the details in the background of this investigation, so it is hard for me to say that.

But you know, the videos -- I've said this for many years, I've been in this position for six and a half years, I believe that cell phone videos, I believe body worn camera videos are game changers for law enforcement. They weed out the bad apples and they can be used to show great things and -- that police officers are doing.

So, video is definitely the key in this case as it is in so many other cases in this day and age.

WALLACE: You know, everybody now is talking about reform and fixing things, fixing things with the police, fixing things with society. I want to put up something that you said, Mr. Skoogman.

I think law enforcement in general is looking for ways to do a better job of connecting with communities of color.

You said that back in 2017 on the first anniversary of the shooting of Philando Castile at that traffic stop that we showed in the last segment. Yet here we are and it's 2020 and we have another case, apparently, of police brutality in the death of George Floyd.

So, I'm not -- I'm not trying to put all the blame on you, but how much should people trust these claims "we're going to make things better", when we keep hearing it?

SKOOGMAN: Yes, no, I think a fair question.

You know, the Attorney General Keith Ellison in your previous segment talked just briefly at the end about a working group here in Minnesota that he and Commissioner John Harrington, the commissioner of public safety here in Minnesota, they co-shared a working group. It was -- they got together last year, it's a diverse group, including law enforcement, stakeholders, community members, family members of individuals who had been shot and killed by law enforcement here in Minnesota over a number of years.

That working group was actually run by Ron Davis, who ran the COPS Office under -- in the President Obama administration.

WALLACE: Look, I just want -- I need to interrupt because we are short on time here. I can hear people watching this on TV right now and saying, good, we're glad you did the task force, all of that. George Floyd is still dead.

SKOOGMAN: Absolutely, Chris. It's entirely tragic. What we are trying to do is I think we just need to continue to work together. With got to get rid of this us versus them mentality. We got to continue the training that we put together here in Minnesota and across the country around implicit bias, training isn't everything but it's certainly a start.

We need to do a better job with law enforcement and in communities of color about recruiting new officers. I'm extremely concerned about the future of law enforcement across the country. We are seeing fewer and fewer people who want to be police officers, whether -- no matter what race they are, and that's a huge problem.

And I do think that -- the final thing that I can say about this is I believe that the arbitration process in our country needs to be changed. We have officers that violate public policy, they have a pattern of doing that, police chiefs and sheriffs try to fire them and our courts reinstate those jobs. So, there is a whole thing to look at from a variety of angles, Chris.

WALLACE: Mr. Skoogman, thank you. Thanks for sharing part of your weekend with us.

Up next, we'll hear from two leading African-American voices on the racial tensions playing out on America's streets. Professor Cornel West on what can be done to heal the divide, and Republican Senator Tim Scott on whether this racial flash point will turn out any differently.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: This latest racial flashpoint may have started in the streets of Minneapolis but the angry reaction quickly spread to cities across the country. We want to discuss the state of race in America with two leading African-Americans.

First, Professor Cornel West of Harvard Divinity School.

Professor, I want to play three videos for you and then get your reaction.

First the shooting of Ahmaud Arbery in February while jogging in a suburban neighborhood in Georgia.

Then, that incident in New York Central Park on Monday where a White woman called the police after a Black man asked her to put her dog on a leash.

Here's a clip.

(BEGIN CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An African-American man threatening my life. I'm sorry. I can't hear (INAUDIBLE). I'm being threatened by a man at The Ramble. Please send the cops immediately.

(END CLIP)

WALLACE: And then the alleged murder of George Floyd on a Minneapolis street. Professor West, what's going on?

CORNEL WEST, HARVARD DIVINITY SCHOOL PROFESSOR: Well, I think what we're seeing here is the ways in which the vicious legacy of white supremacy manifests in organized hatred, greed, and corruption. If we're dealing with moral meltdown and spiritual breakdown and the sad thing about this moment, my dear brother Chris, is that we are witnessing the collapse of the legitimacy of leadership; the political class, the economic class, the professional class. That's the deeper crisis.

And so, the beautiful thing is we're seeing citizens who are caring and concerned. They're hitting the streets. So you kill a black brother, each life, not matter what color, precious. We're seeing black, white, red, yellow, especially young people, coming together. That's a beautiful thing.

Many decades ago that wasn't the case. But the problem is we have a system --

WALLACE: Well, let me --

WEST: -- that's not responding and seems to be unable to respond. That's the problem my brother.

WALLACE: Professor, you said that this week we're witnessing America as your words a fair -- a failed social experiment. Now, clearly, there is continued racial inequality and as we can see continued racial injustice. But calling America a failed social experiment and some of the things you just said, isn't that going way too far?

I mean, you look back over the 50 years since 1968, which this has reminded a lot of people of, there has been substantial progress in terms of black education and black income. We elected an African American president and we re-elected an African American president.

Clearly, we can see it's not enough, but it's not nothing either.

WEST: Oh, no, no. I'm not saying there hasn't been progress. But as Brother Malcolm used to say, and, of course, your beloved father had that dialogue with Malcolm in '59, you don't stab folks in the back nine inches, pull it out three inches, and say you're making progress.

Yes, you made progress, especially for the black middle class. I'm talking about the Black poor and working class -- all poor and working class.

You see, brother Chris, I am a Revolutionary Christian looks at the world through the lens of the cross, not Pontius Pilate. I don't measure black progress in terms of black elites, how many black faces you have in high places. That's wonderful. That's beautiful. I'm concerned about the least of these.

I'm concerned about that Jesus that went into the temple and ran out the money changers. He was concerned about the least of these.

That's the traditional Martin King. That's the traditional of John Coltrane and Ella Baker. That's what we need now but the problem is we've got a system, my brother, that rationalizes legalized loot. Wall Street greed, Wall Street crimes, legalized murder too often.

WALLACE: OK.

WEST: And keep in mind, when -- when police kill fellow citizens, they kill white brothers and sisters too. Their lives are precious too. That's wrong too. But too many black and brown have been killed.

WALLACE: I want to -- I -- I -- OK.

WEST: You see -- you see my point?

WALLACE: So you -- we saw pictures of the riots and you said it's a beautiful thing that people are taking to the street.

WEST: Absolutely.

WALLACE: And you called -- this week you called the -- the death of George Floyd a -- let me get the words right -- a lynching at the highest level. You also said, thank God that we have people in the streets.

WEST: Absolutely.

WALLACE: Here, on the other hand, is what Atlanta's African-American mayor said about what's going on in her streets this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS, (D), ATLANTA, GEORGIA: This is not in the spirit of Martin Luther King Jr. This is chaos. A protest has purpose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: I got about two minutes here, Professor. Do you think that what we're seeing in the streets, riots, violence, looting in African-American neighborhoods, do you think that's doing any good for African-Americans?

WEST: No, most of my fellow citizens, God bless them, that are in the streets are there peaceful, who are there marching. And when it does spill over into violence, looting is wrong. But legalized looting is wrong too. Murder is wrong. Legalized murder is wrong too. I look at the wickedness at high places first and then keep track of the least of these.

We all have individual responsibility, but we're living in a system that seems to be unable to reform itself. And when you have such a moment, you get violent spillover. That's the concern.

If we're more concerned about the property and spillover than the poverty, decrepit school system, dilapidated housing, massive unemployment and under-employment, we're going to be doing this every five, every 10, every 20 years. And you and I are old enough to know, though, brother, going all the way back to the Harvard years. I remember when you were arrested right there in front of the Cambridge Prison itself of '69. We go over and over again. We got to make sure we don't pass it on to our younger generation.

WALLACE: Yes, but I -- let me just say, because I got to -- I -- I got to move -- I got to move on. I was there as a reporter. I wasn't there as a protestor.

WEST: No, no, I know. Oh, yes. Oh, no, I understand. I understand that, brother. I understand.

WALLACE: But, Professor, thank you. Thank -- thanks for joining us today.

WEST: Thank you so much, though, brother.

WALLACE: Now let's turn Republican Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina.

Senator, welcome back to FOX NEWS SUNDAY.

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): Thanks, Chris.

I want to ask you the same question that I asked at the start of Professor West, which is, you know, we've got the Arbery shooting, we've got that awful incident in Central Park, and then we've got this devastating video of what that white police officer to do George Floyd.

Same question, what is going on?

SCOTT: Well, there's no doubt that what we're having the opportunity to see is the absolute devastation of too many African-American males, over too many decades, frankly.

George Floyd, thankfully, was in a position where people were able to film it and video it and that's why we are having this conversation. Had it not been for someone videotaping this, it would not have happened. If it had not been for Mr. Arbery being videotaped, it would not have happened. Even though it happened, none of us would have known about it.

The Walter Scott case in 2015, had it not been for a video, it would not have happened. And when you read the police reports, you come to the conclusion that it didn't happen the way it happened until you have a video that substantiates what it is.

And perhaps, Chris, what we should focus on, as you said earlier, was the New York City woman who said to the Harvard black man that, I'm going to call the police and say my life is being threatened. What that says is that there is a lower value on an African-American male life than it is on a white woman's life. And that is part of what played out there and that is part of the significant thing that we need to focus on.

WALLACE: Well, I would -- let me -- Senator, let me -- Senator, let me pick up on that --

SCOTT: Certainly.

WALLACE: Because this does seem -- this does seem, sir, to be a systemic problem.

SCOTT: Yes.

WALLACE: And I want to put up some numbers that -- that indicate that. Young men of color are two and a half times more likely to die at the hands of police than white men. And police use of force -- this is astonishing to me -- is the sixth leading cause of death for young men of color.

SCOTT: Yes.

WALLACE: How do you explain that, sir?

SCOTT: Well, I -- I can only explain that by saying that there's too much abuse within law enforcement towards African-American men. I have been a victim, seven times stopped in one year as an elected official just driving while black. So I'm not going to pretend that there isn't a major racial component.

But what I will suggest to you is what I believe is actually happening. Thank God for video. Thank God for film. Think God for this conversation that we're having today and thank God we're having it in America because if you weren't not in America, you probably couldn't have this conversation.

It is not a binary choice, progress or regression. You can actually have both at the same time. We're seeing a lot of goodwill. We're seeing a diversity in the protests that we did not see in the '60s.

John Lewis would be proud of the non-violent protesters that we're seeing today, black, white, red and brown. What he was saying and what I am saying -- what he -- actually, what he did say is that any violence in the midst of this -- these protests --

WALLACE: Right.

SCOTT: Simply takes away from the actual issue, which is that George Floyd lost his life. It looks like murder to me. Let's get the investigation started and finished so that we will have more confidence in a legal system that we can all say, this is a system where the woman has a blindfold on.

WALLACE: Senator -- Senator, I want to follow upon on something that Professor West said, which is that, you know, we have to talk not only about what is going on in the riots in the streets, we have to talk about what is going on among people at the highest levels of our society. And I want to put up some tweets that were sent out by President Trump this week.

The first one, this was about the riots in Minneapolis. These thugs are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd. Any difficulty and we will assume control. But when the looting starts, the shooting starts.

And that I want to put up another series of tweets, Senator Scott, and these were after there were protests that turned violent at the White House on Friday night. The president praised the Secret Service. He said, nobody came close to breaching the fence. If they had, they would have been greeted with the most vicious dogs and the most ominous weapons I have ever seen. Many Secret Service agents just waiting for action. We put the young ones on the front line, sir, they love it, and good practice.

Now, obviously, Secret Service has to protect the president, but, you know, you -- you've -- you're not as old as I am or Cornel West, but you have seen racial tensions in this country. When we hear about the looting starts, the shooting starts, when you hear about vicious police dogs, is that kind of talk from the president of the United States constructive at this moment?

SCOTT: Well, those are not constructive tweets, without any question. I'll say this, I spoke with the president yesterday morning and he and I had a good conversation about what are the next steps. I told him what I'm going to tell you, which is, Mr. President, it helps us when you focus on the death, the unjustified, in my opinion, the criminal death of George Floyd. Those tweets are very helpful. It is helpful when you say what you said yesterday, which is that it's important for us to recognize the benefit of non-violent protests. It is helpful when you respond to my request to have the Department of Justice, led by Attorney General Barr, have a commission and a conversation around race and justice in this nation. Mr. President, it is helpful when you lead with compassion. And the tweets that I saw yesterday were far better.

WALLACE: OK, but -- but -- but, Senator Scott, I've got a minute left, did you -- did you -- did you, sir, did you speak truth to power and did you say to him, when you talk about thugs, when you talk about looting and shooting and you talk about vicious police dogs, what did you say about that?

SCOTT: I used similar words that you just used, which as we talked about the fact that there's a constructive way to -- to have a dialogue with a nation and, in a similar fashion, that we had a conversation after Charlottesville. The president will listen if you engage him with the facts of the issue and then you ask him to focus on -- his attention on making progress as one nation under God.

I think is tweets yesterday were far more responsive after the conversation. I'm thankful that we can have that conversation. We don't always agree. I didn't agree with some of his tweets beforehand, but we have the ability to sit down and dialogue on how we move this nation forward and not let the detractors get in the way of what has been a pretty phenomenal couple of years economically.

WALLACE: Senator --

SCOTT: Yes, Chris.

WALLACE: Senator Scott, thank you. Thanks for coming in today. Always good to talk with you, sir.

SCOTT: Thank you.

WALLACE: Up next, we'll bring in our Sunday group to discuss rising tensions over racial inequality and the president's war with Twitter.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE FREEMAN, HENNEPIN COUNTY ATTORNEY: I'm here to announce the former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin is in custody.

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN): The absolute chaos. This is not grieving and this is not -- this is not making a statement that we fully acknowledge needs to be fixed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Reaction from Minnesota officials to the alleged murder of George Floyd by a white policeman this week.

And it's time now for our Sunday group.

Former Trump National Security Council spokesman Michael Anton, anchor of "THE DAILY BRIEFING," Dana Perino, and Mo Elleithee of Georgetown University's Institute of Politics and Public Service.

The country is going through a tough time right now and minorities are going through the toughest time. I want to put up some statistics.

More than 100,000 people died from the coronavirus. More than 40 million jobs lost. And if you want to get a sense of how that has especially hitting minorities, in Minnesota, more than one-third of Covid cases are African-Americans, although they're just 6 percent of the population of that state.

And then, of course, now the George Floyd case.

Mo, is that why we're seeing these violent demonstrations across the country at this moment? Is this a kind of perfect storm?

MO ELLEITHEE, GEORGETOWN INSTITUTE OF POLITICS AND PUBLIC SERVICE, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, AND FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Look, this is probably one of the saddest moments in this country in my lifetime, right? It's all -- it's everything you just said coming together, colliding in -- in -- in a terrible way. And it is disproportionately hurting people of color and minority communities.

I think it's important to recognize, though, that there is a difference between the protesters who are out there making a legitimate point fighting for justice, and the rioters and looters who are exploiting the death of George Floyd and exploiting this moment for whatever reason that they are. We're seeing the best and worst of America right now. We are seeing police officers marching with protesters. We're seeing police officers take a knee in prayer at these protests with the protesters.

But we're also seeing these violent clashes between criminals and the police, and rioters and the police.

WALLACE: Right.

ELLEITHEE: And the police overreaching into many cases. So it is -- you know, we could sure use some leadership to try to bring us all together, bring us all together the way past presidents have, but it -- we also all have to take the responsibility ourselves. And -- and that starts in the streets, it starts in the communities.

WALLACE: OK, let me -- let me bring in -- we've got limited time here, Mo, so let me bring in Dana.

How do you explain this explosion of violence across the country far from where this terrible incident happened in Minneapolis?

DANA PERINO, ANCHOR, "THE DAILY BRIEFING": Well, you know, I am humble enough to say that I -- I don't know. And I think a lot of people this morning wake up and just feel, again, this incredible sense of sadness and a little bit of fear and some humility is in order from leadership, but also some leadership is needed.

I believe the nation needs a circuit breaker. There -- we have to figure out a way to deal with what we can going forward. A lot of this frustration was borne out because of something that happened on Monday where Derek Chauvin kneeled on the officers neck -- on -- on George Floyd's neck. He died. Many other people -- if this had been anyone else, that person would have been put in jail under probable cause until charged. That didn't happen. And we can't go back and fix that.

I do think that right now local leadership needs to figure out a way to get everybody in a room and start talking about how they can do things, because a government can't heal a heart, but it can do a couple of things well, which is, one, restore law and order --

WALLACE: Right.

PERINO: But also figure out a way to mete out justice, consistently, every day, equally, for everyone.

WALLACE: And then there is the escalating battle between President Trump and the social media giants, and that escalated this week with the -- Twitter tagging two of the president's tweets, one on the alleged corruption of mail-in voting, and then the other one about when the looting starts, the shooting starts.

Here's the president responding to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The choices that Twitter makes when it chooses to suppress and it blacklists, shadow ban are editorial decisions, pure and simple.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Michael, what do you think of the president's decision to try to regulate, to try to limit Twitter? Is it good policy? And, realistically, in the midst of a presidential election, and also the Senate and of the House election, what are the chances that he's actually going to be able to do this?

MICHAEL ANTON, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL SPOKESMAN: I agree with what Attorney General Barr said late last week, I think Friday. He said that this is not just Twitter but all the social media companies essentially pulled a bait and switch on the country, that they rose to prominence, they grew their markets by saying that we're -- they were neutral platforms, that anybody could say anything, and they were indifferent to and had nothing to do with content.

And now that they have great market power, you know, huge audiences, gigantic user bases and so on, they've decided to influence the message that takes place on their platform. There're not -- they're no longer neutral platforms, and so they've changed their behavior and -- and there are, you know, government regulations that would have -- have applied to them had they been sort of honest about this all along and they're going to apply to them now. So I think what the attorney general said was right and this is -- this is long overdue. We're -- we're addressing -- we're addressing a fact that has been in place for a long time, but we've been pretending it wasn't true for at least five or ten years.

WALLACE: Dana, I want to look at this from -- from both sides. Is this a -- a fight that it's smart for the president to take on in the midst of his campaign for re-election? And what about Twitter? Was it smart for them to start tagging or putting alerts in front of presidential tweets? Don't you go down a very slippery slope there if you're going to call of the president, don't you have to call out Joe Biden? If you're going to call out Republicans, don't you have to call out Democrats?

PERINO: Well, I absolutely think it's a win for President Trump and a loser for Twitter, for Twitter's decision that they made this week. There are many people on the -- on the right who believe that the game is rigged. And the president said, all right, I think that the refs are working for the other side. So by taking this action, he decided to work the refs a little bit.

Twitter then decided to take a tweet about mail-in voting -- of all the tweets that you could have chosen, they decide to take on this one on mail- in voting. They had to then fact-check themselves twice to clarify what they meant.

And I do think that when you are fact-checking the president of the United States but not the leader of Iran, then you have absolutely opened up Pandora's Box. And, you know, FaceBook separates itself by saying, like, we are not going to fact-check the president.

I think one of the things -- like speaking to what Michael Anton just said, I don't think that these social media companies should look at President Trump as anything different than a citizen. I understand his words carry a lot of weight --

WALLACE: Right.

PERINO: But you have to apply these things equally. And if not, they're going to face some regulation.

WALLACE: I've got about a minute left for you, Mo. Your thoughts about what's going on here both on the side of Twitter tagging the president and the president talking about trying to establish some limits on what Twitter and the other social media giants can do.

Mo, are you with us?

ELLEITHEE: Oh, I'm -- I'm sorry.

WALLACE: I think we lost him.

ELLEITHEE: You cut out there for a second, Chris.

No, no, I apologize, I -- you got me know.

Look, I -- you know, to Dana's point, you know, if they were going to treat him like any other citizen, he would have been kicked off the platform by now, right? The president of the United States has been violating the terms of service and we've seen Twitter apply those terms of service to other people. This isn't censorship, this is them calling him out for violating those terms of service.

But the content's still there. People can still see it for themselves whether it's when he's being faxed checked or when he's glorifying violence. But I do think they're going to have to do a better job of applying it across the board.

WALLACE: Thank you, panel, see you next Sunday. A very busy, very difficult week.

Up next, our "Power Player of the Week," the author whose brand-new novel foresees much of the pandemic we're going through right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: You can't deny the eerie timing of a new novel about a fictitious global pandemic. The book parallels, with uncanny accuracy, much of what we're seeing right now.

Here's our "Power Player of the Week."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE WRIGHT, AUTHOR, "THE END OF OCTOBER": The experts in the field all were quite apprised of what would happen when something like this comes into our society.

WALLACE (voice over): Lawrence Wright finished his latest novel, "The End of October," in 2019, but it reads like a front page in 2020, a deadly virus spreading globally, scientists fighting with politicians, a stock market plunged, even a vice president put in charge of the response.

WRIGHT: It wasn't prophecy, Chris, as has been said. It was, you know, just -- the question was, what would happen if -- if we had a pandemic? You know, a really virulent, highly contagious one?

WALLACE (on camera): How unsettling is it right now to be watching the news and see so much of it follow your plot?

WRIGHT: Well, it's dismaying. And I hope it stops. My book is pretty bleak.

WALLACE (voice over): The virus in the book begins in Indonesia, then spreads to Mecca, as millions of pilgrims arrive for the annual hajj, and doctors race to save lives.

WRIGHT: I was fascinated by the ingenuity and, as I saw it, the heroism of people like my hero who go out into these hot zones and face these novel diseases with so little preparation and no understanding of what might happen. To me, that's just terrifying.

WALLACE: Celebrities like Taylor Swift and Brad Pitt succumbed to the virus, but not everyone.

WALLACE (on camera): So, I'm reading your book and suddenly I pop up grilling the Russians foreign minister.

WRIGHT: Yes.

WALLACE: How did that happen?

WRIGHT: I employed certain personalities in the book, some of them real, you being one. You're lucky I didn't kill you off like I did with Anderson Cooper. So I don't want you to complain too much, Chris.

WALLACE (voice over): Wright is no stranger to writing about disasters. He won a non-fiction Pulitzer Prize for "The Looming Tower," on the rise of Islamic terrorism and the run-up to 9/11. He says a famous movie director inspired his latest book.

WRIGHT: Ridley Scott wanted me to write a script about how civilization would collapse. And, you know, I thought about nuclear war and so on, but I just thought, pandemic.

WALLACE: But Wright says he misjudged the end of civilization part, and thank goodness.

WRIGHT: I didn't give enough credit to individuals for voluntarily sequestering themselves in their homes for months at a time.

WALLACE (on camera): In terms of lives and livelihoods, how do you think this all ends?

WRIGHT: Like a war or a depression, a pandemic is like an x-ray into our society. We can see all the broken places. We know where our shortcomings are. And we have the opportunity to remedy them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And now the countdown to the countdown.

As you may know, I've also written a new book. It's called "Countdown 1945: The Extraordinary Story of the Atomic Bomb and the 116 Days that Changed the World." It's a behind-the-scenes look at how America's top politicians, scientists, and military leaders pulled together to make an astonishing breakthrough that ended the Second World War.

Here's a look at what was happening as summer began 75 years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Victory in Europe had been won.

WALLACE (voice over): By early June, the allies are preparing to invade Japan. An operation projected to take more than a year and kill hundreds of thousands on both sides.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Dr. J.R. Oppenheimer arrives --

WALLACE: The team behind the Manhattan Project says, if the U.S. decides to drop an atom bomb on the enemy, it should strike as soon as possible and without warning, hitting a key military target in a major city.

But before Truman could decide how to proceed, he waits for the first test of an atom bomb in the New Mexico desert.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most momentous man-made explosion of all time.

WALLACE: The test of a plutonium bomb is a success. The weapon works. Truman must now make the toughest decision any president has ever faced.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: The book comes out on June 9th, a week from Tuesday, and we'll have a special hour documentary on the "Countdown" next Sunday, June 7th.

And for the latest on the protests and unrest across the country, keep it right here

on your local Fox station and Fox News Channel.

But that's it for today. Have a great week and we'll see you next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.

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