Sen. Kennedy calls Pelosi 'over the top' and 'juvenile' for tearing up copy of Trump's speech

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Sen. Kennedy calls Pelosi 'over the top' and 'juvenile' for tearing up copy of Trump's speech

Louisiana Republican Senator John Kennedy weighs in on partisan divide during State of the Union.

This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Martha MacCallum," February 5, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS HOST: President Trump's acquittal a short time ago making history in a number of ways including this moment when Mitt Romney became the first senator in U.S. history to vote to convict a President of his own party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): Were I to ignore the evidence that has been presented and disregard what I believe my oath and the Constitution demands of me for the sake of a partisan end. It would I fear expose my character to history rebuke and the censure of my own conscience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That vote renewing scrutiny on Republican Senator Susan Collins as well tonight and her decision to acquit the President. Collins is the most senior Republican woman in the Senate serving Maine for 23 years and winning re-election in traditionally blue state by substantial margins. She has often been praised for her moderate approach, but in 2018 she was lambasted by some on the stage when she took to the Senate floor and said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): Mr. President, I will vote to confirm Judge Kavanaugh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Collins faced intense political backlash and even received death threats and had an anthrax scare at her office. Couple the events of 2018 with her vote to exonerate President Trump and her Senate race in nine months is now labeled as a tossup. She's considered one of the most vulnerable lawmakers in the Senate. Senator Susan Collins joins me now exclusively this evening. Senator Collins, thank you so much for being here.

COLLINS: Glad to join you.

MACCALLUM: This evening. It's great to have you. So, when you saw Mitt Romney make that decision, the two of you were among the last of the holdouts on this and I just want to play this also from Chris Wallace's interview with him today and we can watch that and get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: It is a high crime and misdemeanor within the meaning of the Constitution. The personal consequences, the political consequences that fall on me as a result of that are going to be extraordinary. But I swore an oath before God and I'm a religious person that I would apply impartial justice and applying impartial justice said what the President did was grievously wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: What goes through your mind when you listen to your colleague there?

COLLINS: Well, I respect Mitt, but I reached a different conclusion. To me when you study what the framers said and the high bar that they said for removing a duly-elected President immediately from office and banning him or her from ever running again, it shows you that this was not to be undertaken lightly, it only applied to bribery, treason, high crimes and misdemeanors.

And I did not think based on my review of the evidence that the House managers prove that case, particularly when we're talking about a hard to define non-criminal act.

MACCALLUM: So, David Frum in The Atlantic wrote this. He said, I don't know why I feel so sure of this. Yet I am sure. Susan Collins asked Mitch McConnell for permission to vote for witnesses, talking about the early vote and Mitt Romney did not. I would imagine that he would probably extend that sentiment to this situation as well.

COLLINS: You know Martha, I have cast more than 7000 votes in my Senate time and I've never asked anyone for permission on how to vote. So that is just totally wrong. And I would also argue it's very sexist that he thinks that I somehow got permission to vote for witnesses, a position I'd taken from the very beginning. I've worked hard to get to ensure that there would be a vote on whether to proceed to witnesses and yet he doesn't think that that would be true of Mitt Romney. In fact, neither of us asked for permission.

MACCALLUM: Was witnesses the harder vote then than the acquittal because that was really a moment that shut the door on further interviews, further investigations, John Bolton, was that a tougher vote for you.

COLLINS: In some ways it was but I had always said that we should follow the same schedule, the same approach that we used in President Clinton's trial and in that trial as in this one. We heard both sides present their cases, underwent an extensive question and answer session and then moved to the question of whether or not to have witnesses. I voted for witnesses both times.

MACCALLUM: So, are you concerned that when - because the push for information on this case continues. There's the possibility that John Bolton will be subpoenaed to testify on the House side is still out there. Adam Schiff was asked about it today. Are you concerned that when more comes out and the book comes out that you might second guess your decision?

COLLINS: I really don't think so. And keep in mind that the House never issued a subpoena to John Bolton, that was one of the flaws in their case because they were in such a hurry to complete the articles before Christmas and yet then waited 33 days for transmitting them to the Senate. During that time, they could have subpoena John Bolton, they withdrew a subpoena to one of his top aides, Dr Charlie Kupperman. So, the House never pursued its remedies.

MACCALLUM: So, what do you say to constituents who might say you know how could you not want to hear from John Bolton. At that point, he had said he would be willing to talk.

COLLINS: And I did want to hear from John Bolton. I felt that each side should have been able to select a limited number of witnesses. I know there was concern that this could go on and on and on and on. But I think that there could have been an agreement reach where each side could have had a limited number of witnesses to fill in the blanks or resolve some of the inconsistencies that existed for example in Ambassador Sondland's testimony.

MACCALLUM: And that's why you did vote for them. You have a difficult election coming up. I think you would agree with that. Correct. And these are some of the angry voicemails that you have received at your office from constituents over this difficult decision that you just made. Let's play those.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, what a vile piece of garbage you are, Susan Collins. I sure hope you didn't read. I sure hope you don't have children or grandchildren because their futures. You are traitor that you support people like Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're going to lose Susan Collins. You're going to lose. You're just for Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Well as you know this is a continuation of the kind of abuse and harassment that has occurred for my staff, my family and me since my vote for Justice Kavanaugh. And I think it's a sad commentary that we can't have differences of opinion without resorting to profanity, to death threats to vile language and yet it seems that we lost in this country the ability to disagree respectfully.

MACCALLUM: So, you said that you believe that the President had learned a lesson from this process, from this impeachment and yet he continues to say he did nothing wrong. He is likely to take a victory lap tomorrow. Will something in you be disappointed if you never see any evidence that he has learned a lesson or if he does something like this again.

COLLINS: Very much so. I hoped that the President would have learned from the fact that he was impeached by the House even though I think that was a partisan move. But there were so many of us who are Republicans in the Senate who were very critical of the call, the call was wrong, parts of the call were fine, but then the President mixed in asking a federal government to investigate a political rival and he should not have done that. And I would hope that he would not do it again.

MACCALLUM: Did he give you any assurance that he would not do something like that again except foreign help in anything related to someone that might be running with him, did you talk to him about it at all?

COLLINS: I've had no conversations with him throughout the trial.

MACCALLUM: So, why do you have that feeling that he has changed that he learned a lesson.

COLLINS: Well, I may not be correct on that, it's more aspirational on my part. It's more that I hope that he has listened to the many voices and that Senate who have pointed out that the call was very problematic.

MACCALLUM: Do you think it's safe to say that if something like this did happen again that the outcome would be different that you would vote differently.

COLLINS: The President should simply not do it again. Nobody wants to put the country through this again. There's a reason why we never removed a President. I know all the years despite these provisions being in the Constitution and that is because it's overturning an election and saying that the voters no longer have the right to decide.

MACCALLUM: Mitch McConnell, the majority leader said today that every one of our senators in tough positions is in a better position after the impeachment, do you think you are in Maine?

COLLINS: I really don't know. It's very hard to say. I'm sure there are people, I know there are people who are furious at me, I know there are people who are happy with me. But that's not what influenced my decision. When you have a constitutional decision to make, you have to do it in a serious solemn manner and without regard to the political consequence.

MACCALLUM: Mitt Romney made it sound like he made a more moral decision than you did perhaps. What would you say to that?

COLLINS: I think we each searched our conscious and listened to what the evidence was, and we simply reached different conclusions. I respect his vote and I'm sure he respects mine as well.

MACCALLUM: Two quick things before I let you go. What did you think about Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker ripping up those pages of the speech last night?

COLLINS: I thought it was terrible. I thought it was disrespectful and rude and she should not have done it. And it just adds to the polarization and divisiveness that is tearing our country apart. So, I was very disappointed in her.

MACCALLUM: All right. And as we say good night here to Susan Collins, Kirk Douglas who is a graduate of St. Lawrence University, where you went and I went as well, passed away this evening at 103. So, we have a picture of him here. Quick thought on that.

COLLINS: A good long life. And he's been very generous to St. Lawrence in the last few years. I think there is a new building that's named after him.

MACCALLUM: Senator Susan Collins, thank you very much. Good to have you with us tonight.

COLLINS: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Thank you. So, President Trump may be acquitted, but there is new indication tonight that House Democrats are preparing to continue the cycle of investigations. Former White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders joins me next on that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: President Trump can claim victory vindication and exoneration this evening following an impeachment acquittal in the Senate. He will have much more to say about that in an address tomorrow at noon. Meanwhile some House Democrats appear determined to keep up the investigations even pushing to subpoena John Bolton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's likely that your committee or some combination of committees will subpoena John Bolton. That's what you're saying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does the speaker signed off on it?

REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY): Excuse me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has the speaker signed off on it? When will this happen?

NADLER: I don't know. I think when you have a loyalist President you have to bring that to the four, you have the spotlight that, you have to protect the Constitution. We have the political consequence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Joining me now Sarah Huckabee Sanders, former White House Press Secretary., Fox News Contributor and author of Speaking for Myself, Faith, Freedom and the Fight of our Lives inside the Trump White House. And that fight has continued, it ends - at least it pauses today, Sarah, who knows where it goes from here. Your thoughts on what you just heard from Jerry Nadler there.

SARA HUCKABEE SANDERS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think it's a huge mistake, you would think that Democrats at some point would learn their lesson. The President's been acquitted, he's been vindicated and he's in a better position now than ever before going into re-election. The Democrats are clearly no match for this President. They have tried to take him down time and time again and he continues to beat back their ridiculous shams and Russia hoax, whatever the conspiracy theory investigation of the day is.

And frankly, the American people are tired of it. They want Congress to actually work together to get something done. I think some of the things the President laid out in his State of the Union address last night are the things that America wants to talk about. They're tired of the games that Democrats have been playing. And frankly, they want to see Congress come together, work together and actually get something done that matters.

MACCALLUM: Here is another group of sound bites on some of them talking about further investigations and we know there's a bunch - you know there's finance and tax returns, there's campaign finance violations, hush money, the Don McGahn question, all of that still going on. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NADLER: We're talking about everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Russia.

NADLER: Everything. And remember, our investigations on the Mueller Report that we never finished because we didn't get the witnesses in court with McGahn and others. We'll get those witnesses. We'll continue the facts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have constitutional oversight responsibility to make sure that there is not criminality and corruption taking place in the executive branch of government. So, we should not let up for one second.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, Sarah given that on the one hand and perhaps the desire on the part of some to get some things done potentially really hard in an election year of course, how optimistic are you that any of the prescription issues or infrastructure, give me something that might be able to get done?

SANDERS: Honestly with this group of Democrats, I'm not very optimistic unfortunately. I'd love to say I think there's some great things that they're going to work together on, but they show that they care more about destroying the President than they do fixing problems in this country. They hate Donald Trump more than they love America. We've seen that play out over the last year and a half to three years since Donald Trump got elected.

Every single day since the President took office, they have done nothing but try to take that election back and they continue to fail. And frankly, Donald Trump continues to get stronger. The more they attack him the better off he does in the country is hard to argue with any of the data points that the country is not doing infinitely better under this President. And just look at the things he laid out last night.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. But let me ask you this, Senator Susan Collins was just here and she said I hope that the President learned something from this experience in terms of conversations that he would have in the future, throughout this election year, with foreign leaders or anyone who might have information on one of his opponents. Do you think that there has been any impact of this whole process on him? Because he says you know that it was all perfect.

SANDERS: Look, I don't think the President did anything wrong. I do think going forward maybe he'll be more cautious in the way that he has those conversations, but I still don't think anything that he did in that conversation was wrong. He made a pledge to drain the swamp and go after corruption as did the newly elected President in Ukraine. And I think it was perfectly normal that two people who campaigned on that would discuss it in a phone call right after he was elected.

To me, it seems perfectly normal. And in fact, a good thing that the President is trying to make sure that corruption is being looked into. So, maybe he's more cautious in the people that he includes around him. But I certainly don't think that he did anything wrong that he needs to change moving forward.

One thing, I do hope that will change is the way that the Democrats approach the next several months and maybe they can work together. I think the President talked about some really incredible initiatives and some really things that could change how America moves forward over the next decade, in the next century. And it would be great if they would partner with the President on Opportunity Zones, eradicating AIDS, childhood cancer. There are so many things that they should be championing with the President instead of fighting against--

MACCALLUM: Some of those things they didn't even stand up and clap, so Sarah Huckabee Sanders, thank you. We'll see where it goes. Good to see you tonight.

SANDERS: You bet. Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, after displays of bitter partisanship from both parties at the State of the Union what's the path forward in Washington especially if President Trump does get four more years. Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer and Republican Senator John Kennedy when that continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So, there is some new fallout tonight from the bitter acts of partisanship that punctuated the State of the Union address. It started with a handshake snub from the President followed by a less prestigious intro from Speaker - from Speaker Pelosi, cheers from Republicans and jeers from Democrats rang through the room as the President spoke and ended with a jaw dropping spectacle as the speeches text was shredded by the House Speaker in a moment that I think just sort of stopped everybody cold.

A move prompting constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley to warn that Pelosi's actions will have lasting impact on the House adding "if Pelosi cannot maintain the dignity and neutrality of her office at the State of the Union, she should resign as Speaker of the House of Representatives."

Here now Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer, Co-Chair of the Problem Solvers Caucus. Congressman, good to have you with us tonight.

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Thanks for having me.

MACCALLUM: What do you think about what Jonathan Turley said. Pretty strong words.

GOTTHEIMER: I don't know. I think that what I heard all day and I spoke to a lot of constituents today and a group of members. And the problem solvers caucus which I co-chair, half Democrat, half Republican, we've got together this morning. We talked about what we can do to get the costs and drugs down. We talked about paid family leave which the President talked about last night. We talked about infrastructure which we've been continuing to focus on how we rebuild our crumbling roads and bridges.

To me, that's actually what people want to talk about, and a lot of people want to focus on, and I know the rest makes for good TV but that's not what's really affecting people's lives back home.

MACCALLUM: But it strikes me that the speaker and I just have one more question on this.

GOTTHEIMER: Sure.

MACCALLUM: I mean she did it so intentionally that she wanted to be THE STORY today and the White House responded Speaker Pelosi just ripped up one of our last surviving Tuskegee Airmen, the survival of a child born at 21 weeks, the mourning families of Rocky Jones and Kayla Mueller and went on and said that that's her legacy. So, I mean do you have any reaction to what the leader of your party in the House of Representatives did.

GOTTHEIMER: Well, I'll react to that statement. We were all standing up, I stood up and I was applauding with all of my Democrats Republicans, I was sitting with a group of Democrats Republicans that 102-year-old Tuskegee Airmen. I mean what a great moment in bringing together a service member and his family, that was really heartwarming. There was so much where we and the young girl who survived, I mean to me it was a lot of the best of America we come together and actually focus together and work together.

And I'm hoping and that's what I heard someone call me today about the Tuskegee Airmen because I have a Tuskegee Airmen in my district where I live, he was 100 years old, an amazing, amazing man to spend time with and you know that is what I'm hoping we all focus on and what we can get done working together, we've got a lot of work together. There was a lot of big talk last night and hopefully we're going to get some big action now working together.

MACCALLUM: What do you think is the most probable, the most doable from your discussions with your group that is both parties.

GOTTHEIMER: I think both parties really want to figure out what we can do to get the costs of prescription drugs down for people especially out of pocket costs and how we get more competition in the marketplace and more generics in the marketplace to get those costs down. Both sides really focused on that and I think infrastructure you know continues to be something we all look at each other and say we've got to fix this. You can't keep punting and just hope this gets better.

I'm from Jersey, eighth worst roads in the country, we've got to invest and fix the infrastructure, it's critical. We've got a tunnel between New York and New Jersey that's more than 100 years old, it's fallen apart. That is what you know I hear about time and again and here everybody says the same thing. We've got to deal with this. We can't just let it go.

MACCALLUM: Well as somebody goes through that tunnel every day, Congressman. I hope that you accomplish that. Congressman, thank you. Very good to see you tonight.

GOTTHEIMER: Thank you so much for having me.

MACCALLUM: Good to see you. So also, here tonight in studio Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Senator, good to have you here tonight. What was your reaction to the shredding of the speech at the end there last night? It's a jaw dropper.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): It was over the top. I'm not sure though that Speaker Pelosi cares about a top. I thought it was juvenile. You can only be young once, but you can always be immature. I know some have said well the President started it. As if they were two kids in the back of a minivan.

MACCALLUM: Did it bother you that he didn't shake her hand and when she extended it. It's a strange moment. It's hard to really tell exactly what's going on.

KENNEDY: I couldn't tell whether he saw her extend the hand or not. If he did and I had been the president, I would have shaken her hand. But if the president did see her hand and didn't shake it, I'm not surprised.

The president is not a turn the other cheek kind of guy. He thinks if you turn other cheek, you just get it in the neck. And based on Speaker Pelosi's behavior for the last 90 to 120 days, he's right.

MACCALLUM: It seems -- you know, Chuck Schumer weighed in. He said it was a sad moment for democracy last night. It was demagogic. It was undignified. What was your take on the speech?

KENNEDY: I thought it was one of the best speeches I've heard the president give. It was a good strong balance between a celebration of our accomplishments and new ideas for the next year or two, hopefully longer.

I like his thoughts about school choice. You know, we -- in America, we can unravel the human genome, we can take a deceased human heart and replace it with a new one and make it beat. We can send a person to the moon and bring him back but we can't seem to teach our kids how to read and write and we have 18 ways to do it.

MACCALLUM: It's a great point. I think it's going to be a big issue in the coming election.

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY: It needs to be.

MACCALLUM: I think of the race for governor between DeSantis and Gillum. And DeSantis was in favor of school choice and they say that that was one of the big things that swayed a lot of voters who otherwise might have voted for Gillum. So, I think that's definitely an issue to watch.

What did you think about your colleague Mitt Romney's decision today to vote to convict on one of the articles of impeachment?

KENNEDY: When my colleagues ask my opinion about a vote, Martha, and they ask me how they should vote, it doesn't happen often, Martha, but it happens on occasion. This is what I tell them. I say follow your heart, but take your brain with you.

Now, Senator Romney is entitled to his opinion. He's entitled to his vote, Martha. That's a fact. It's between him and the people of Utah. I disagree with him, but I can't tell you I was totally surprised.

MACCALLUM: So, you're saying that he was only -- he would let his heart lead and not his head? I mean, --

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY: Well, you'll have to ask Mitt that. But I think it is telling that every other Republican in the United States Congress, House and Senate, Martha, saw things a different way. I'm not going to second guess one of my colleague's motivation when they say it's -- they prayed about it and they -- their heartfelt.

That's what I mean -- that's between the senator and his people back home. But to me, this was -- this -- all we did today was take a vote. It was a proxy vote on Donald Trump and his policies. And it was an abuse of a serious process.

We don't settle our differences in America through impeachment. We settle them through elections. And this was the first partisan impeachment in the history of this country. I think Speaker Pelosi really hurt this country. She has tried to normalize impeachment as a routine political weapon. And that's not what our founders --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: She said because of the Republican Senate's betrayal of the Constitution, the president remains an ongoing threat to American democracy with his insistence that he's above the law and that he can corrupt the elections if he wants to.

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY: That's what I mean. It's so over the top. I mean, this side that if we don't stop the president, he will fix the next election, if we don't stop the president, he will sell Alaska. The world -- the western civilization is coming to an end. And yet the speaker held on to the articles of impeachment for what? Three or four weeks?

MACCALLUM: Thirty-three days, I believe.

KENNEDY: You know, this -- they -- many of the folks in Washington, including the speaker, I think, they think the American people are morons, that they can't see through all of this.

MACCALLUM: Senator Kennedy, thank you very much. Great to have you here tonight, sir.

KENNEDY: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Good to see you. Thank you.

So, another round of results are in from Iowa, folks. And Bernie Sanders maintains his spot in a close second. He is also heading into New Hampshire as the favorite to win there. So, what does this mean for Joe Biden's campaign as it struggles to catapult to the top spot as he heads to New Hampshire as well? We'll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I like you to rocket me out of here to make sure this thing works. OK? Because if I come out of here well you guys are going to set the tone for the whole rest of the race.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I'm not going to sugar coat it. We took a gut punch in Iowa. The whole process took a gut punch. But look, this isn't the first time in my life I've been knocked down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Joe Biden today feeling the heat after a poor showing coming in fourth, it looks like. We're still waiting for the final results in Monday's Iowa caucus. And he is in fourth place there as you can see. Tonight, as the former vice president campaigns in New Hampshire, he could be facing trouble there as well.

Bernie Sanders has led every new -- New Hampshire poll, I should say, since mid-January and appears poised for a strong showing on Tuesday night.

Peter Doocy is live in Manchester tonight where the Democratic candidates are crisscrossing the granite state. Hi, Peter.

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. Joe Biden now wants New Hampshire Democrats to hear something other than a Pete Buttigieg victory lap. And he knows he has to beat Pete Buttigieg here next Tuesday so he is going after him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I do believe that it's a risk to be just straight up with you for this party to nominate someone who has never held an office higher than mayor of a town of 100,000 people in Indiana.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: And Biden didn't stop there. He's got a new argument for experience over excitement. On Twitter he wrote this. "Mayor Pete likes to call me part of the old failed Washington. Was it a failure when I helped to pass Obamacare, the Paris Agreement, the Violence Against Women Act or the assault weapons ban? I have a stronger record of passing big progressive legislation than anyone running."

Biden and Buttigieg are tied right now in a new Boston Globe/Suffolk University poll but they are both trailing Bernie Sanders, so Biden is going after him, too. Arguing that Medicare for all will go down on the House floor and so will down ballot Democrats on election day if Bernie is the nominee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Every Democrat will have to carry the label Senator Sanders has chose for himself -- chosen for himself. He calls it -- I don't criticize him. He calls himself a Democratic socialist. Well, we've already seen what Donald Trump is going to do with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: Biden did not mention Elizabeth Warren at his event earlier today, so he is signaling he thinks his big New Hampshire competition is Pete Buttigieg and Bernie Sanders but he doesn't have any plans to make that case at any point tomorrow in New Hampshire because he has no public events scheduled here. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Yes, I saw that. That's kind of shocking. He's got a debate and he's down for the day according to the reports. Peter, thank you very much.

Joining me now with more is Robert Wolf, former economic adviser to President Obama and now a Fox News contributor. Robert, good to see you tonight. Thanks for being here.

ROBERT WOLF, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Let's start there. What do you think about the fact that Joe Biden has no scheduled events in New Hampshire tomorrow while all the other candidates that he's going after today are going to be all over the place?

WOLF: Yes, I probably see it differently than how the media is taking it. I think Iowa, I think the real winner was Mayor Pete. He did very well in the Trump-Obama areas. I think that actually I would say Bernie underperformed. If you look at 2016, he got 50 percent of the vote and half the delegates, this time around he got half that number of votes and half the delegates.

And I actually had Warren and Biden, my view for them was they just needed to hit the 15 percent threshold and they did that. Now New Hampshire is a different thing. New Hampshire is a primary state. Certainly, I think Bernie is the favorite. You know, he beat Hillary by 25 plus points in 2016. He neighbors New Hampshire.

I actually think Warren will outperform. And I think Mayor Pete and Biden, I mean, they're fighting for the moderate lame there. And the truth is, the Iowa caucus was a disaster for the party.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

WOLF: Because usually it whittled the field. And usually you have a frontrunner. And we came out of that with neither.

MACCALLUM: So, what do you think of the arguments? I thought they were -- you know, they're pretty strong arguments that Joe Biden is making there. And I think that's something that people have been sort of looking for from him.

He said that, you know, Mayor Pete, he said I'm sorry but you know, if you've been a mayor of a town that's, you know, under 100,000 people, I just don't think you're ready to be president essentially. And he said Sanders is a socialist Democrat and I don't blame him, you know, but that's not going to fly. Donald Trump is going to rip that apart.

WOLF: You know, it's an interesting pivot for the vice president, the former vice president.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

WOLF: I think it's the right one. He has been going after Trump nonstop. I think it's time that he realizes and he has that this is a competition first within the primary and the other nominees. And that's what he's going after. And I think hitting Pete on experience is smart.

And Pete is hitting him on hey, he's an agent of change. Certainly, I think they're both going to hit Bernie on the idea of Medicare for all like Trump has hit them, with the idea of taking away private insurance, as well as --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

WOLF: -- the socialist, you know, socialist or Democratic socialist, I guess as he points there.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: And he wants to basically --

WOLF: So, I think --

MACCALLUM: -- the electrical grid under government control as well.

This is William Galston in the Wall Street Journal today. Stop Bernie Sanders now is the title of this piece. "Before the end of February, the leading representatives of the center left must coalesce around a candidate who has best demonstrated the ability to unite the anti-Sanders vote and lead the party to victory in November." Do you agree?

WOLF: Well, I agree right now. The silent majority is the moderate lane. It's about 55 to 60 percent of the party. The problem is we have three or four candidates if you include Bloomberg who it split between. The progressive part of the populist left is Warren and Bernie. That's about 40 to 45 percent.

I think actually you have to be in the majority to, you know, have any chance for beating Trump. And I think you do have to be, I think what Biden said. He helped flip 40 red to blue areas in Congress. He's helped with the Kentucky governorship, the Louisiana governorship.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

WOLF: So, I do think that the moderate lane is a more victorious path against Trump.

MACCALLUM: All right. Well, --

WOLF: That being said, there's incredible excitement around Bernie right now, too.

MACCALLUM: Well, we'll see. He has to win something in order to move that ball forward. Thank you very much. Good to see you, Rob.

WOLF: Thanks for having me.

MACCALLUM: Robert. You bet.

So many Democrats tonight cheering Mitt Romney for voting to convict President Trump. David Bossie and Richard Goodstein join me in Washington, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: so many Democrats tonight heaping praise on Mitt Romney this evening after the Utah senator became the only Republican to break ranks and to vote to convict President Trump on one of the articles of impeachment, abuse of power.

House intel chair Adam Schiff saying that Romney displayed moral courage. And here's Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer just a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: First, I do want to salute Mitt Romney. The pressure on every Republican was enormous. Every Republican knows that this president is vindictive, vengeful, vicious sometimes and they don't want to oppose him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: I'm joined now by David Bossie, former Trump deputy campaign manager and a Fox News contributor, and Richard Goodstein, former Democratic and a former adviser to the Clinton campaigns. Your thought, what do you think about what Senator Schumer said there, David?

DAVID BOSSIE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, any time that you're being praised by the Democratic leader, you have to worry about what you did that day. And Mitt Romney should be worried about what he did. You know, he's entitled to his own opinion and it is his vote. But he is not entitled to his own facts.

And 52 other Republicans in the United States Senate came to the conclusion that none of this met the standard to impeach this president. So, I think that Mitt Romney is out there on an island on his own. We're going to -- he is going to have a long four years in the United States Senate.

MACCALLUM: You sound like you think he should be punished.

(CROSSTALK)

BOSSIE: He should. He should be.

MACCALLUM: Here's what -- here's what Donald Trump Jr. said. Let's put this up, this tweet. Can we take a look at that? "Mitt Romney is forever bitter that he will never be president of the United States. He was too weak to beat the Democrats then so he's joining them now. He's now officially a member of the resistance and should be expelled from the GOP."

BOSSIE: I retweeted Don Junior's tweet because he's right on point. He -- look, you have -- you come here, and you're part of a team. You, ss I said you can have your opinions but when the team comes together at the end, he is somebody who hates Donald Trump. This is payback for 2016 for his failures. His failures. No one else's. And he's paying Donald Trump back through his vote today. And it's a disgrace.

MACCALLUM: Richard?

RICHARD GOODSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: So, you think Donald Trump right now is glad that he humiliated Mitt Romney when he teased Romney to think that maybe he would be secretary of state?

Look, Romney reminds us that some people actually used to elevate country above party. And I was reminded when John McCain in 2008 said to that woman on the campaign trail, no, ma'am, he is not an Arab when she said that's that she thought Obama was.

Do you think -- that was a decency, a fundamental decency which Mitt Romney has always, always exhibited. And who out there thinks that that's a fundamental characteristic of Donald Trump?

You know, you look at what the economy is doing and where his standing is relatively to these other Democrats. He should be much stronger. It's that absence of decency. I think that's really what's dragging him down. And I don't know whether it's the State of the Union or however he's going to react to this or what his son is doing helps him.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Well, you know, it's gone both ways in this relationship obviously.

GOODSTEIN: Of course.

MACCALLUM: Here's a flashback to when Mitt Romney -- when President Trump announced -- when Romney when Trump announced his presidency. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): Let me put it very plainly. If we Republicans choose Donald Trump as our nominee, the prospects for a safe and prosperous future are greatly diminished.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: I mean, it was much -- he got much heavier than that. That was probably one of the nicest sound bites that we could have pulled from there. You know, he called him a phony, he called him pretty much every name in the book at that point. David, your reaction?

BOSSIE: No, this is exactly who Mitt Romney is. This is all about Mitt Romney. He wants everybody to be talking about Mitt Romney and saying those, he's -- he puts -- he's not putting country ahead of anything. He puts himself first and always has.

MACCALLUM: What do you think are the ramifications are for him in Utah? I mean, maybe --

(CROSSTALK)

BOSSIE: Well, first of all, I hope -- it's unfortunately he's not in cycle. Unfortunately, he has four more years until he has to stand up before the people of Utah once again. And so, we will see if there's a primary opponent that will emerge. It's a long four years for Mitt Romney.

GOODSTEIN: Let me just say one thing about that. One gets a sense about Mitt Romney that being a senator is not the pinnacle of his career --

(CROSSTALK)

BOSSIE: But he failed.

GOODSTEIN: -- but life. I understand. But I think unlike a lot of his colleagues, this isn't like the be all and end all. His family is, what he's accomplished otherwise. And if either he gets primaried --

(CROSSTALK)

BOSSIE: He back --

GOODSTEIN: -- and he loses or he decides who need this, that's OK. He actually can sleep at night and be true to what he believes.

MACCALLUM: Yes. And he said the worst thing that can happen to you politically already happened to me. I wanted to be president and I lost. So, he's not worried.

(CROSSTALK)

BOSSIE: And he back turned --

MACCALLUM: He's not worried about people, you know, telling him that he's going to be on an island.

(CROSSTALK)

BOSSIE: And he moves to Utah so that -- right. And he moves to Utah so he can back into a U.S. Senate race -- or a Senate seat. It's -- look, this guy is always put himself first. And that's just what everybody here in Washington and around the country now knows because of this vote this lack of courage today.

GOODSTEIN: I will say this. I think there are young people who aspire to be young Republican politicians who actually will take -- I mean, the Republican Party I would think should take comfort from having Mitt Romney be so prominent in this. Because they can say yes, I'm a person of my convictions and actually there's a -- there's a path for me. As opposed to no, unless I salute Donald Trump, I can't get anywhere. I actually think that's a positive thing for the Republican Party.

MACCALLUM: You saw what Schumer said. He is suggesting that a lot of people maybe felt like Mitt did but they are afraid of the president.

BOSSIE: No one is afraid of this president. This president has a lot of accomplishment, he is going to get reelected. No question about it this November.

Look, What Nancy Pelosi did was -- I tweeted was an in-kind contribution. This entire impeachment hoax has been an in-kind contribution to the Donald Trump reelection campaign of 2020.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

BOSSIE: Because he is coming out of this even stronger. You look at the State of the Union last night, that was an incredible speech talking about -- he didn't have enough time in 80 minutes to talk about all of his accomplishment.

MACCALLUM: Well, you know, there's a lot of indications that it's been a boost.

BOSSIE: Absolutely.

MACCALLUM: So, THE STORY continues right after this. Thanks, gentlemen. Good to have you here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: That's THE STORY, a big day, Wednesday, February 5, 2020. THE STORY continues and it goes on tomorrow night from New York City, a story exclusive with Christine Pelosi after her mother ripped up those pages at the State of the Union. We'll see tomorrow night from New York.

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