Sen. Hassan: There is a need for targeted COVID relief right now

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Sen. Hassan: There is a need for targeted COVID relief right now

New Hampshire Democrat joins 'Your World' to discuss bipartisan pandemic aid package

This is a rush transcript from “Your World with Neil Cavuto” December 1, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR:  You're looking live outside CDC headquarters
in Atlanta, Georgia, where, any minute now, we are expecting to get the
result of that advisers vote on who will be first in line for vaccines that
are coming down the pike.

How are they going to decide that? Do health workers get it first,
vulnerable members of the population get it, the elderly, a mix therein? It
could set the stage for how vaccines in general are treated and who gets
them and when and whether it goes even beyond this country.

Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto. And this is YOUR WORLD on the very
same day we got some startling news out of the attorney general of the
United States, Bill Barr, who said there's no evidence that he can see to
support voter fraud on such a wide basis that it influenced the election
and tilted it in favor of Joe Biden.

We understand he is at the White House right now. And it is fair to say
that, well, President Trump might not be too pleased with that. But, again,
from the attorney general, no evidence of widespread fraud in the election
or one that would significantly alter the outcome.

John Roberts following all of these fast-moving developments at the White
House -- to you, John.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT:  Neil, good
afternoon to you.

Yes, the attorney general is currently at the White House. We're just
watching for his departure here. He was here for a previously scheduled
meeting and was not set to meet the president. But, as we all know who --
those of us who cover the White House, that can change at a moment's
notice, particularly since there seems to be a very sharp difference of
opinion between what the attorney general is saying and what the Trump
campaign is saying.

First of all to what the attorney general told the Associated Press, here's
the marquee headline, the attorney general saying -- quote -- "To date, we
have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome
in the election."

Now, there is the caveat in that statement, the words "to date" there at
the top. So things could change.

But it prompted this sharp response from Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis, the
president's legal team, saying -- quote -- "With all due respect to the
attorney general, there hasn't been any semblance of a Department of
Justice investigation. We have gathered ample evidence of illegal voting in
at least six states which they have not examined. We have many witnesses
swearing under oath that they saw crimes being committed in connection with
voter fraud. As far as we know, not a single one has been interviewed by
the DOJ. The Justice Department also hasn't audited any voting machines or
used their subpoena powers to determine the truth."

Now, on the subject of voting machines, the DOJ did look into at least one
allegation regarding machines, the one that was raised by Michael Flynn's
attorney, Sidney Powell, that the machines were rigged to change votes with
software developed under the auspices of the late Venezuelan dictator Hugo
Chavez, and that the votes were tabulated in Germany.

Barr responding to that, saying -- quote -- "There's been one assertion
that would be systemic fraud, and that would be the claim that machines
were programmed essentially to skew the election results. And the DHS and
DOJ have looked into that. And, so far, we haven't seen anything to
substantiate that."

Earlier this fall, Barr proclaimed that mass mail-in voting would be a rich
environment for voter fraud and instructed attorneys at the DOJ to
investigate substantial allegations of fraud. In the end, though, Barr says
those allegations were mostly localized, telling the AP: "Most claims of
fraud are very particularized to a particular set of circumstances or
actors or conduct. They are not systemic allegations. And those have been
run down. They are being run down. Some had been broad and potentially
cover a few thousand votes. They have been followed up on."

One other piece of news out of the Department of Justice this afternoon,
the attorney general has appointed John Durham to the position of special
counsel to continue looking into the origins of the Russia investigation in
a new administration.

That's an indication that Durham's work is likely far from over. It also
may cast a cloud of controversy over the inauguration of President Joe
Biden, if Biden, in fact, is elected by the electors on December 14 to
become the next president of the United States.

So, John Durham is going to be with us for a while to come, even if there
is a change of administration -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  So, in that event, John, just to get this right, there's nothing
Joe Biden could do about that, right, I mean, that it's on?

ROBERTS:  The old independent counsel law was vacated or expired, and then
now there's a new one that's covered by the Department of Justice.

But it's my understanding that, if a special counsel is appointed, that
special counsel continues until their work is completed, regardless of who
occupies the Oval Office -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  All right, so seems like a kind of a quiet, dull news day for you.

Let us know if anything changes, but...

ROBERTS:  As always.

You know what we call it around here? Around here, we call it Tuesday.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO:  Yes, I hear you, my friend. I hear you.

John Roberts in the middle of all of that.

Well, if John's right -- I have no reason to doubt him -- and Bill Barr is
seeing the president today, I'm just curious as to how the president will
react to his saying essentially that this whole issue of whether there's
systemic fraud that could alter the outcome of the election, and Bill Barr
has made it clear that's not the case.

To Tom Dupree, the former deputy assistant attorney general, his thoughts
on that, also Steven Mulroy, the former federal prosecutor, election law
attorney.

Gentlemen, welcome to both of you.

Tom, to you first on the significance of the attorney general saying
exactly what he said, because it would seem to poke a hole in any ongoing
legal battle the president is contemplating or his campaign still
contemplates to try to reverse this thing.

TOM DUPREE, FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL:  Neil, I do think it's a
pretty significant development.

Look, the attorney general wasn't under any legal requirement to announce
what DOJ had found or hadn't found. This was a decision to make today's
public statement that the attorney general made on his own. And I think
it's really hard to read his statement as anything other than a dagger to
the heart of the president's lawyers, the arguments that his campaign
lawyers Rudy Giuliani and others have been making about systemic fraud.

The attorney general came out, gave a report which he wasn't required to
give, but he gave the report and said that DOJ and DHS investigators had
not found any evidence of the sort of systemic fraud that is the basis for
the campaign's ongoing lawsuits.

CAVUTO:  You know, Steven, the one caveat I held out is this notion that he
said all of that with the understanding yet, haven't found anything yet,
without saying yet.

So, are we to read into that, as things stand now, the attorney general
thinks it's over, or that that could change if new information
materializes, because there's very little time for it to materialize?

STEVEN MULROY, UNIVERSITY OF MEMPHIS:  Right. I think you're right about
that, Neil.

The caveat language to date, I think, is just lawyerly caution. But I don't
think we're supposed to read too much into that and think that, suddenly,
after weeks of looking for evidence of systemic fraud, and after weeks of
having Trump's attorneys had the opportunity to present evidence of
systemic fraud or systemic problems that would change the outcome of the
election, that now, suddenly, it would materialize.

It doesn't seem likely that that will happen. But, as you said, there's not
that much time. The safe harbor deadline under federal law is December 8.
All the states are going to try and probably succeed in getting
certification and everything wrapped up before that time.

And then, as you know, six days later, on December 14, the Electoral
College meets. It seems extremely unlikely that, after December 8, and
certainly after December 14, there will be much that could come up that
would change the ultimate outcome.

CAVUTO:  This is just me thinking this and wondering about the confluence
of events, Tom, but do you think that Bill Barr appointing this Durham
special counsel for investigation into the beginnings, the origins of the
Russian probe was not accidental; it was meant to maybe mitigate the blow
that he dealt the president by saying this whole election thing, it's going
nowhere?

DUPREE:  Well, the timing does seem very coincidental, at the very least,
Neil.

And, look, I think that probably is what's going on here. The attorney
general had to know that the message he was delivering today about the
election fraud, or lack of evidence of election fraud, was not a message
that was going to sit well with the president.

And so it's entirely possible that he thought, at the same time he was
making that announcement, he would make the Durham announcement, which I
think is the attorney general's effort to do everything he can
institutionally to ensure that the Durham investigation continues, that it
endures into the Biden presidency, and that it's an investigation that will
result in a final report and conclusions and possibly factual findings.

CAVUTO:  Steven, December 14, the Electoral College meets. And it will
presumably confirm Joe Biden winning the Electoral College. Whether it's by
the 306 electoral votes it appears to be right now, we will see.

Is that it, then? Is it over at that point?

MULROY:  At each date, December 8, December 14, January 20 -- January 6,
when the Congress meets to certify the results, and then obviously
inauguration on January 20, at each of those dates, it becomes more and
more vanishingly small, the chance that anything could be done.

There's no hard-and-fast rule that you couldn't have some sort of court
ruling that might upset things after December 14, but it seems really,
really unlikely.

I mean, there are -- let's be clear, there are individual instances of
problems with a few votes here or there, but even if you amalgamated all of
them together, it wouldn't be enough to change the outcome in a single
state, swing state, let alone the three or four swing states that you would
need to change the outcome of the election.

So, for all practical purposes, I think December 14 is probably the last
realistic date.

I would like to just mention very quickly, Neil, that, although we don't
have evidence that would change the outcome of the election, that doesn't
mean that we shouldn't be careful about making sure that these kinds of
problems don't occur in the future.

Every electronic voting machine is theoretically capable of being hacked or
going -- glitching. And so there is some real reason for thinking about
moving to a complete hand-marked paper ballot system, as most states have
already done. Two-thirds of the voters in this country use that.

There's no reason why we can't think about those kinds of reforms going
forward, but very little reason to think that's going to change this
election, particularly after December 14.

CAVUTO:  Very interesting. Yes, a lot of key and very legitimate issues
have been raised here in this whole process, however it works out this go-
round.

Gentlemen, I want to thank you both very, very much.

Switching to Atlanta, Georgia, right now. We're continuing monitoring this
CDC gathering of advisers here on how best to handle vaccines, who gets
them and when, what's the pecking order, and, down the road, when, other
vaccines come out, how do you handle that?

The laundry list and, well, organization of who gets what and how soon --
after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  So, who gets the vaccine? That's what they're deciding right now
at CDC headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia, advisers gathering, sharing
information, then ultimately voting on how to go about this process.

Now, it's assumed that health care professionals would certainly be among
the first those most vulnerable, the elderly, what have you, and those with
extended medical conditions that makes them susceptible to a worsening of a
positive case of the virus, but anyone's guess how they will rule on this,
because the stage they set for the first vaccine will probably be the stage
set for future vaccines and who gets what and when.

Laura Ingle following it very, very closely in Malverne, New York.

Hey, Laura.

LAURA INGLE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Hey, Neil.

We have been listening in on this virtual meeting with the CDC, and this
vote that is about to happen this hour will do exactly that. It'll kind of
set the table for who is going to get the vaccine first.

You mentioned, of course, the front-line health care workers and the
elderly. That much, we know, but they're going to have to prioritize those
subgroups. And that is what we're listening to now, that vote expected any
minute here, people who are put into what is being called the phase one
group, with discussion of how to prioritize, in addition to looking at
possibly a tiered approach, if supplies are limited to start out with.

Now, once the FDA approves the top two candidates, Moderna and Pfizer,
distribution will be handled by the federal government. But, ultimately,
the big decision on who will get the vaccines will be passed on to
individual states. That means governors.

Now, the committee, which is made up of 15 voting members and several other
vaccine experts, will determine those in the first category, which will
consist of health care workers, including hospitals, long-term care
facilities, EMS, and pharmacies, along with home health care workers and
public health officials.

Dr. Anthony Fauci with the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious
Diseases says everyone who wants to get the vaccine should be able to get
it by next summer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR:  I believe that will be as we enter into
and get to the end of the second quarter of 2021, starting with April, and
going into May, June, July. By that time, if people want to get it, they
can get it. And, hopefully, everybody would want to get it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

INGLE:  Yes, that's the key.

And while the CDC works on its priority list, the commissioner of the FDA
was summoned to the White House this morning to discuss the timing of the
vaccines' approval. Now, we have been told there were some pretty tough
questions being asked him. Why is this taking so long?

But, also, the FDA commissioner was told, look, if you need help from the
federal government to get this thing moving along, we can provide it for
you. So it was kind of a briefing, so to speak, at the White House with the
FDA commissioner.

More to come as we get it, with this big vote happening this hour, Neil.

CAVUTO:  Laura Ingle, thank you very, very much.

Want to go to Mike Leavitt right now, the former health and human services
secretary.

Mike, knowing what's at stake here, common sense would seem to dictate --
and I think you and I had chatted about this last time you were here --
that those in harm's way, obviously, would be among the first to get it,
whether those are the health care workers or vulnerable parts of the
population.

What would be a surprise, if that wasn't the case, right?

MICHAEL LEAVITT, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES:  I
think it is likely to be the case.
 
I think we will see it roll out in phases. We will have -- the first will
be, of course, health care workers who are in high risk, people in nursing
facilities, and so forth.

Then I think they will go to people who have high clinical risks, and then
they will work from there on down. We will see another phase where you will
see teachers, where you will have people who are child care workers,
essential workers that need to be in place to make the economy work.

CAVUTO:  What is your thinking on how this goes and transitions to the
Biden administration? Obviously, they want to make this an orderly
transition. I know there's still legal fights included here.

But part of the transition would also be on this virus front, and that
everyone's kind of on the same page with the dispensement of vaccines and
those that become available, including the one from Pfizer and Moderna that
are the closest to happening now.

How is that going, you think?

LEAVITT:  Well, I'm told that they're -- the teams are actively working
together now, that they're -- the Trump team is giving insight to the Biden
team, and that -- recognizing there's only one president at a time, there's
only one administration at a time.

I think we're in a window here where there's likely to be a fair amount of
collaborative discussion, recognizing that the bulk of this will have to
occur under a Biden administration.

CAVUTO:  You know, these are two largely American concerns, as you know,
Secretary, Moderna and Pfizer.

And it seems to be an understanding that Americans will be the first to get
these doses. That doesn't have to be the case. Do you think it should be
the case?

LEAVITT:  Well, they're operating under contract.

Pfizer, for example, they have a contract with the United States government
to deliver 100 million doses, Moderna, another 100 million doses.

CAVUTO:  Right.

LEAVITT:  When you look at Johnson & Johnson, I think they have been under
contract for 100 million doses.

I feel confident that those companies are also contracting with other
governments. And I'm sure, as a matter of contract, the order in which
those are produced is likely determined and agreed upon.

CAVUTO:  Understood.

Mike Leavitt, former health and human services secretary, thank you. Have a
safe holiday.

Dr. Anita Gupta here, the anesthesiologist, expert on all things keeping
everyone calm when it comes to this virus.

So, Doctor, very good to have you back.

I'm wondering. Obviously, it's going to be a slow. As big as the number of
doses we're talking about are, it's going to be a slow rollout for the
billions across the planet who want to be protected, maybe tens of millions
of doses available right now in some of these applications. That doesn't
mean tens of millions of individuals, because some of them require two
applications.

But how do you think this process will go?

DR. ANITA GUPTA, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY OF MEDICINE:  Well, thank you,
first of all, for having me on.

So, look, I think what's really important to remember is that a vaccine
doesn't save lives. It's going to be the vaccination strategy. And we
really need to understand that it's a collective responsibility here, and
there's so much work that will be necessary to turn this vaccine into a
clear, concise vaccination prevention strategy.

And it has to be comprehensive, it has to address trust, and it has to be
transparent. And I think what we're seeing is that 50 percent of the people
in United States are not quite sure if they even want to take the vaccine.

And so that's the critical point where we're at right now. Even though this
has been a historic movement from the federal government, for getting
Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, and rigorous and swift and incredible, this
is the first step in really controlling the spread and driving hope
throughout our country and the world, really, to save lives.

CAVUTO:  You know, for good or ill, Doctor, there's a lot of suspicion the
part of Americans leery to take whatever vaccine is coming, some who think
it's been politicized, others who think that, unless they see a stamp of
approval from the FDA, and, even then, they're going to be suspicious,
still others who are leery of vaccines, period.

How do you convince patients down the road, depending on the rollout, and
who has what and when, to take it?

GUPTA:  A lot of this is going to come down to education and awareness and
understanding what a vaccine is.

You know, 65 to 70 percent of the population needs to be vaccinated,
according to the World Health Organization, in order to prevent outbreaks.
And no vaccine can really prevent anybody from becoming ill if half the
population isn't on board.

So, these are important data points, and everyone needs to become aware. We
obviously need to review the data that we will be hearing from the FDA too
about safety and efficacy. And all the populations need to be served
equitably.

So, there's a lot of things ahead that I'm sure we're going to discuss. But
this needs to be a collective responsibility on everyone's part. We're all
committed to this and we're all connected. But there certainly is a lot of
hope ahead.

CAVUTO:  You know, while I have you here, Doctor, Dr. Fauci had said, if he
had things his way, the low family gatherings that we were being
recommended to practice on Thanksgiving, he would continue for Christmas
and New Year's into the holiday, one more holiday to make sure we don't
botch this, that we keep the crowds low, we keep the family gatherings
limited.

Do you agree with that?

GUPTA:  Yes. Yes.

Dr. Fauci, he's correct. I mean, we have to remember prevention is number
one here. And, again, the vaccine is an incredible hope, and, combined,
that this comprehensive strategy will get this pandemic under control by
2021. And that's the hope here.

CAVUTO:  Dr. Anita Gupta, very good catching up with you. Thanks for all
you're doing, not only your patience, but for us, keeping us calm. We need
that, the anesthesiologist extraordinaire Dr. Anita Gupta on all of that.

In the meantime, you think that we can't get any stimulus? I want you to
meet a key player in the bipartisan effort to get that out there and not
wait until the new administration, get it done under this one -- after
this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, well, December certainly is looking a whole lot like
November, isn't it?

New records for the Nasdaq and the S&P 500, a nice sprint of nearly 200
points for the Dow, optimism about a vaccine rollout that's coming soon,
and fast.

More after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D-NY):  I always welcome and encourage my Democratic
members to talk to Republican members. And there's another proposal that
way.

All are in efforts to get Leader McConnell to stop being so partisan.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY):  Obviously, it does require bipartisan support
to get out of the Congress. But it requires a presidential signature.

And this government is in place for sure for the next month. And I think
the place to start is, are we actually making a law, or are we just making
a point?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO:  Well, my next guest says:  No, I'm doing more than just making a
point. I'm part of a bipartisan effort to find emergency relief, and soon,
part of a $908 billion relief package, if you will.

Senator Maggie Hassan joins us right now, the Democratic senator of the
beautiful state of New Hampshire.

Senator, thank you for taking the time.

SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D-NH):  Well, thanks for having me, Neil.

CAVUTO:  Well, there's certainly a good deal of bipartisan support for
this. The price tag is lower than some of your fellow Democrats want. It's
more than some of your fellow Republicans want, which means maybe you're on 
to something here.

But what -- where do you think this thing goes?

HASSAN:  Well, look, first of all, I have been hearing from constituents
all across New Hampshire, and I know my colleagues in both parties have
been hearing from their constituents all across the country, about the need
for targeted relief right now.

We have families and individuals who are unemployed. And, for many of them,
their unemployment runs out literally the day after Christmas. They need to
put food on the table and pay their rent.

We know we have small businesses who are struggling, health care facilities
that need support. Schools need help to enable kids to get back into school
physically. And we know state and local governments need help to prevent
the kind of layoffs that would diminish services in this pandemic and
undermine the economy.

So, this is about a group of Democrats and Republicans in both the Senate
and the House coming together and having really hard discussions over the
last couple of weeks about where they're willing to go and what they think
needs to be done.

And this is a targeted bill. To your point, it's not as much as most
Democrats think we need to be investing for relief. It's more than most of
the Republicans think we should be doing. But that's the nature of
compromise.

And so this is a bipartisan bill. We don't have time to waste here. And
it's something that we believe could pass our chamber and in the House.

CAVUTO:  Now, it seemed, Senator, that president-elect Biden hinted that we
need this, but we would need more in a new administration, presumably his
administration, on top of this.

Do you agree with that?

HASSAN:  Well, again, we need the president-elect's new administration to
come on board and assess where things are when they come into office and
make their own recommendations.

And that's why what this agreement between Republicans and Democrats in
both chambers really looks at is, what do we need to help our constituents,
our businesses get through this dark, cold, long winter, where we know that
we're seeing a surge in the pandemic?

So, what this is really designed to do is carry us through the first
quarter of 2021. And, at that point, with a new administration in office,
having assessed what they think the situation is, they can make their own
recommendations, and, again, we can work across party lines to figure out
next steps forward.

CAVUTO:  To your point, Senator, about something that is bipartisan, one or
the other side isn't quite convinced.

Some of your fellow Democrats are concerned that there aren't more generous
unemployment benefit provisions at the federal level, nothing sort of like
the $600 a week that was at the height of the pandemic that has since
expired.

What do you say to that and whether that's something that's negotiable?

HASSAN:  Well, so what this agreement does, the $908 billion framework, is,
it continues unemployment with a $300 federal plus-up, if you will...

CAVUTO:  Right.

HASSAN:  ... as opposed to the $600.

So, again, that's a result of compromise. But what I would say to people
is, our constituents need this relief now. Their unemployment is going to
run out the day after Christmas. And we can either delay things by having
this disagreement about what the precise right number is, or we can get
them some relief right now, and continue to work together over the course
of the new year and into the next quarter to see whether there's additional
relief that needs to be targeted that way.

But, right now, what I'm hearing from constituents and businesses,
everybody across my state, is, we need another relief package, and we need
it now.

CAVUTO:  If I can switch subjects a little bit, Senator, as you might have
heard, Attorney General Bill Barr has sort of weighed in on this fraudulent
election issue that the president has been pounding and his campaign has
been litigating, that there's not enough there to prove it was widespread
enough, at a minimum, to have altered the outcome.

So, I don't know how he's being received at the White House with that, but
how do you react to that?

HASSAN:  Look, we had one of the most secure, if not the most secure,
elections in the history of our country.

The president's attorneys and representatives have been invited time and
time again to put forward evidence that meets a court standard for evidence
of widespread voter fraud or other kinds of irregularities. And they
haven't done that.

What is very clear is that president-elect Joe Biden and vice president-
elect Kamala Harris won this election, they won it by a considerable
margin.

And I think it's really important for Americans to come together and unite
and really focus on the task at hand. That's what we tried to do in this
agreement about pandemic relief.

My dad always said to me, Americans disagree a lot. We are a passionate
people, and we have strong opinions, and we love our freedom to express
those strong opinions. That's the beauty of our country.

But we also need to unite when we have challenges. And that's really what
we need to do now. People can have different opinions about who they voted
for and why, but, right now, it's important for us to unite and to work
with the incoming administration and with members of both parties to make
our way through this pandemic.

I'm hopeful about the new vaccine. We have a lot of work to do to get it
distributed and administered to everybody. And then we're going to have to
really work to make our economy even stronger. And so we have got to get
through a difficult time with the economy now, but then I think a lot of us
are very hopeful about what lies ahead.

And that's what I really would encourage all Americans to do, come
together, focus on what we're capable of. Americans are unstoppable when we
work together. And we all want a strong, vibrant, inclusive economy.

CAVUTO:  Does it matter to you, as a senator and a former governor, that
the president even be at the inauguration?

There are some hints he's obviously very bitter, very, very angry. The
litigation continues. He's seemingly hinted that, maybe after we get the
electoral vote decided in a couple of weeks, he would accept that.

But, if he doesn't go to the inauguration, if, in fact, he counters that
with another event maybe to tease a 2024 run, what would you think of that?

HASSAN:  Look, I think one of the great strengths of our democracy has been
the peaceful transition of power and the understanding that, after
elections, you really work to put partisan aside -- partisanship aside and
make sure that the next administration is prepared -- is as prepared as it
can be.

That requires cooperation and it requires a smooth transition. And one of
the ways that we have always observed that transition and really honored
our traditions in a democracy, the notion that, once the votes are counted,
whoever wins takes the next administration forward.

Being present at the inauguration is really important. But I have always
appreciated what my colleagues, political allies and political opponents,
have done around inaugurations, come together, witness that transfer of
power, because it is the key to our strength and our -- one of our core
values as a democracy.

And I would hope that this administration will find its way to doing that.

CAVUTO:  All right, Senator Maggie Hassan, very good catching up with you.
Best of luck on this bipartisan effort to maybe provide some stimulus in,
of all things, a lame-duck session of Congress.

We will watch it closely.

Senator, thank you very much.

HASSAN:  Thanks for having me, Neil. Be safe.

CAVUTO:  All right, you as well.

By the way, as the senator and I were wrapping up, The Wall Street Journal
is reporting that Salesforce has agreed to buy Slack for close to $28
billion. It's a deal that will quickly form one of the biggest players in
the business software arena.

And in case you have said, I have heard these things before, it is a record
year for new offerings. And this is a record year for combinations as well,
the latest, of course, being Salesforce and Slack. If you have got the
money and you have got the disposition, you do this stuff.

They're doing this stuff.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, the CDC sort of fine-tuning who gets a vaccine and
when, and how it's going to all roll out.

We have got the latest from Blake Burman on the implications of all of
this.

Hey, Blake.

BLAKE BURMAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Hi there, Neil.

I have been listening to this call for the last two-and-a-half-hours or so.
And the vote from ACIP, which is the Advisory Committee on Immunization
Practices, a group that advises the CDC, coming at any moment now.

I want to put on the screen the recommendation from this group and what
they are about to vote on right now as we speak -- quote -- "When a COVID-
19 vaccine is authorized by FDA and recommended by ACIP, health care
personnel and residents of long-term care facilities should be offered
vaccination in the initial phase of the COVID-19 vaccination program."

So, that's what they are just about to vote on at this moment in time. When
you talk about health care professionals, who is that group? Well, that's
roughly 21 million adults in this country, about 8 percent of the adult
U.S. population, those who work in hospitals, long-term care facilities and
outpatient facilities, home health care, in pharmacies, EMS workers, and
public health officials as well.

Part of the conversation from ACIP today, Neil, is, what do you do about
those in long-term care facilities, right, because not only do you have the
workers who are there providing care to, I believe the number is something
like roughly 1.7 million Americans in these long-term facilities, but what
about the individuals themselves, in many cases, older Americans?

Do you vaccinate the people who live there also? That's the recommendation
at this point. And they are putting up the vote, which should occur at any
moment.

We should also note, Neil, that this is an advisory committee to the CDC.
And the CDC will eventually put this forward. But, at the end of the day,
when vaccines start to get distributed all across this country, it is
governors within the individual states who will have the final say, and the
health departments in those states as to where those vaccines end up going
-- Neil.

CAVUTO:  Blake Burman at the White House, thank you very, very much.

To Blake's point here, governors do have that final say in the distribution
of this. And while this concerns American-based companies, mostly American
companies like Pfizer and Moderna, who are the first out the gate with
possible vaccines, it does not necessarily address some of the other
companies coming down the pike, in partnership with European entities or
European concerns themselves.

That is another issue for another day, just not this day.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, still following CDC advisory vote on who is going to
get the first vaccine and when, how it's going to be distributed.

A consensus seems to be developing around the notion health care workers
first, the vulnerable subsets of the population, including the elderly,
those in nursing homes, those with extenuating conditions that would
require they get immediate attention before others.

But, again, as Blake Burman was reporting from the White House here, this
is not only this advisory board's call. Governors can go ahead and act as
they see fit in their respective states, at least in this country. And,
remember, there are caveats here. These are two largely American concerns
who are first out the gate with potential remedies to deal with the virus,
Moderna and Pfizer.

There are plenty of others down the pike, in partnership with European
entities or European companies themselves, to whom this does not apply.

But that's a separate issue for a separate day.

Let's go to Dr. Luiza Petre right now, the Mount Sinai School of Medicine
physician and assistant professor. We have also got Ali Mokdad, the Health
Metrics professor, much, much more.

Dr. Mokdad, if I could begin with you on your sense of how they're going to
come down on this. Common sense and protocol seems to dictate health care
workers, vulnerable sets of the population, the elderly, et cetera, I don't
know in that exact pecking order.

But should it be in that exact pecking order?

ALI MOKDAD, INSTITUTE FOR HEALTH METRICS AND EVALUATION:  Yes, it should.

So, remember, the National Academy of Sciences already put recommendations,
which is first medical staff, then people in nursing home, people over 65
years old, people who have chronic conditions, people in prisons, essential
workers, then the rest of the population.

CAVUTO:  Dr. Petre, when you look at this, I mean, you will be
encountering, both of you will down the road, patients who, regardless of
where they are on this vaccine release list, are not going to be keen on
taking it, for a variety of reasons.

It could have something to do with what many seem to be, fairly or not, the
politicization of this process, and others who were just reluctant about
vaccines, period, long before this whole pandemic. So how do you deal with
your patients, Doctor?

DR. LUIZA PETRE, MOUNT SINAI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE:  Neil, this is going to be
a huge challenge.

By the most recent numbers, the most optimistic poll out there show that 58
percent of people would be ready to take a vaccine. But much of this
hesitancy has to do -- and I think this should resolve in time -- is
because it's such a short time when this vaccine was developed.

So I'm confident, as we educate more the communities and the public about
the safety of these vaccines, and after we have the first round of
vaccination, as we discuss the health care workers and the elderly at high
risk, I think people would be more confident.

And, in this picture, when we deal with COVID, if you don't participate to
the solution, you are becoming a problem. So, we are in a very binary world
here. It's either you help or you're becoming a problem yourself. So,
hopefully, we will have more people joining the vaccination, because it
will be a huge enterprise.

CAVUTO:  Yes, I can see you telling your patient, don't be a problem here.
Do the right thing.

Dr. Mokdad, I'm curious. There are a lot of people, particularly young
people, who typically feel bulletproof at their young age, that why should
they take a risk taking a vaccine, when, even if they were to test positive
for the virus, their odds of having any problem with it are so low.

So how do you convince eventually that part of the population to take it?

MOKDAD:  It's very important to have a consistent public health message to
reassure everybody that it's safe and it's needed.

Remember that we need a herd immunity by 80, 90 percent of us getting the
vaccines. So it's very important for young kids to take it in order to
protect their loved ones, their elder, and, of course, to protect our
economy in this country.

So it's very important for all of us to have a system in place to monitor
that take of that vaccine, who's not taking it, and send the proper message
for them to address their concerns, monitor all side effects from the
vaccine, if any, and make sure to address it, so we know it's vaccine-
related and not vaccine-related.

With any vaccine, Neil, there will be some side effects here and there. And
we have to be on top with all of this by monitoring it.

CAVUTO:  Dr. Mokdad, thank you. Dr. Petre, thank you both very, very much.

We will know pretty soon from the CDC exactly how they're going to go about
this.

The read from the former FDA commissioner on the importance of vaccines and
overcoming people who have doubts about them, not just political doubts,
just doubts about their safety and their risks -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, we understand right now that that vote, advisory vote,
within the CDC is getting pushed back another half-hour or so. I don't know
what that could telegraph or what the significance of that could be.

It's oftentimes very difficult to get people in the same room, whether it's
a conference call or not. So, we will keep you posted on the significance
of that and what a half-hour delay on deciding who gets a vaccine and when
will ultimately be decided.

The CDC sets the standards on this sort of stuff. Governors can go ahead
and proceed as they see fit.

The significance of all of this with Mark McClellan, the former FDA
commissioner.

Commissioner, always good to have you.

All of this comes at a time, as I was discussing with my prior guests,
where people are reluctant of vaccines, period. And they have a dim view,
not across the board, but a dimmer view of the FDA, that it's been
criticized for being inconsistent on this, criticized for being, in the
very beginning of the pandemic, against the widespread use of masks. Then
they did a 180, said, everyone wears a mask.

So, a lot of Americans are saying, all right, I'm not too keen on doing
anything the FDA says is gospel safe.

What do you -- what do you tell them?

DR. MARK MCCLELLAN, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER:  Well, I think, first of all,
Neil, the FDA has done a really good job of getting us to this point,
working with the people who are developing the vaccines, the companies, the
clinical researchers, the tens of thousands of people who participated in
these very large clinical trials, to get to the point where we are actually
within maybe just a couple of weeks of having an effective vaccine
available that can help with the really severe health burdens that the
pandemic is imposing, especially on our health care workers, elderly and
other vulnerable populations.

And you will see that coming in just a matter of days. On December 10,
there will be a public meeting where FDA is going to review all of this
evidence with independent expert advisers in public and have a chance to
discuss what's really there.

Based on what we have seen so far, Neil, it looks like these new vaccines
are very effective. They -- we need to make sure that they're safe for
widespread use, starting with the highest-risk groups, as you just
described.

But that could all happen within a couple of weeks. So, I really encourage
people to look at the actual evidence that's coming out, so they can make
an informed decision about the vaccine.

CAVUTO:  Very, very quick -- and I mean super quickly -- I apologize,
Commissioner.

But the doubt seems to raise with the notion that they are political pawns,
that they that the FDA will do whatever the White House says. Can you
reassure us that is not the case?

MCCLELLAN:  Yes, the FDA scientific staff is committed to doing this right.

There's been no significant interference in how they're actually pursuing
this. And, Neil, it's not just the FDA, but independent researchers, drug
manufacturers, clinical experts, all -- are all behind this effort to do it
right.

CAVUTO:  All right, thank you, sir.

It's always good catching up with you, the former FDA commissioner, Mark
McClellan.

We will have an idea about where they stand, the CDC recommending to the
FDA and the rest of us who gets what and when with those vital vaccines.



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