Sen. Graham: Allegation against Kavanaugh is collapsing

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Sen. Graham: Allegation against Kavanaugh is collapsing

New reports of Kavanaugh hearing format. Senate Judiciary Committee member sounds off on 'The Story.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," September 25, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: Breaking tonight, reports that the committee vote for Supreme Court nominee Judge Brett Kavanaugh could happen this Friday following the hearing, Thursday, for Kavanaugh and his accuser, Christine Ford.

Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley tweeting just a couple of moments ago, "If we're ready to vote, we will vote. If we aren't ready, we won't vote." He is on the fence but they're trying to move this forward, that's pretty clear tonight.

All of this comes on the heels of Kavanaugh's decision to speak out here last night. The heat has only turned up on this nomination after he and his wife broke their silence and responded to the graphic accusations. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: It was one roommate, I think, his name is Roche, who said -- you know, that he could see this kind of thing happening. And that you drank a lot in high school, drank a lot in college. And although, he hadn't seen or heard this incident himself that it added up to him that, that it made sense that you treated women that way.

BRETT KAVANAUGH, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: I've always treated women with dignity and respect. He does not corroborate the incident at all. The incident did not happen.

MACCALLUM: You remember him, he was your roommate?

KAVANAUGH: I do remember him.

MACCALLUM: So, why do you think he would say that?

KAVANAUGH: What I know, I'm not going to speculate about motives. I know I never did that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, the president today at the U.N. was asked about how Kavanaugh did in our interview. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, did you see Judge Kavanaugh's interview last night?

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I saw Judge Kavanaugh last night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, could you give us some thoughts, sir?

TRUMP: I think he's a -- just a wonderful human being. This isn't his footing, he's never been here before. He's never had any charges like this. I mean, charges come up from 36 years ago that a totally unsubstantiated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Senator Lindsey Graham, joins us tonight on the GOP plan to power through. And Brit Hume is here with his reaction to Kavanaugh, the circus surrounding it and the coverage. But first, chief national correspondent Ed Henry with the latest. Hi, Ed.

ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Great to see you, Martha. There's a lot breaking just in the last few moments. Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein telling us that she cannot guarantee that Dr. Ford will even be at Thursday's hearing to testify.

Saying, she has quote no way of knowing for sure in the last few moments as well, an attorney for the second accuser, Deborah Ramirez, just revealed she is not going to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee. There was an idea that she might.

And as you noted, Republicans are announcing that they may vote in the committee, on the Judiciary Committee as early as Friday. A suggestion that they are moving forward with this process and that they are feeling confident that maybe they will have the votes to confirm Brett Kavanaugh to the High Court.

Ford's legal team, the reason why they may not show up on Thursday. They are saying, they do not think she will get a quote, fair and respectful treatment because of Republican Mitch McConnell saying in his speech yesterday that her allegation is part of a "smear campaign."

Democrat Chuck Schumer, today demanded McConnell apologized for in Schumer's words politicizing the Supreme Court nomination process. Something that others believe has already been politicized.

Now, a sticking point for the legal team was revealed in a letter to the Judiciary Committee. Where they object to Republicans hiring a special lawyer for Thursday's hearing writing this is inconsistent with "Dr. Blasey Ford's repeated request through counsel that Senators conduct the questioning. This is not a criminal trial for which the involvement of an experienced sex crimes prosecutor would be appropriate.

Republicans say they want an experienced prosecutor who shows sensitivity to a potential victim of sexual misconduct in a matter like this. And they suspect the Democrats want the appearance of having the 11 Republican men on the committee pepper Dr. Ford with a whole series of questions and potentially look like they are bullying her just six weeks before the midterms. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. ORRIN HATCH, R-UTAH, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: We have an outside person coming in and I think that's an appropriate way to do it. So that you don't -- you know, the witness should not be uncomfortable.

SEN. DICK DURBIN, D-ILL., SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Who is going to speak for all of the 11 Republican Senators? We don't have the name, do we?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, D-N.Y., SENATE MINORITY LEADER: Very interesting that our Republican colleagues who want to rush this through are afraid to question Dr. Ford themselves.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HENRY: Also new tonight, Senate Judiciary staffers conducted a phone interview with Kavanaugh today, where he denied an allegation from that second woman I mentioned, who charged to The New Yorker that he exposed himself to her at Yale.

The New York Times has said, it investigated that charge by the second accused of Deborah Ramirez, but could not corroborate it after interviewing several dozen people in the past week. Her lawyer says tonight, the committee has refused to meet scheduled appointments to hear her story. And that they think a better venue is to try and get the FBI to look at her accusation. That is unlikely to happen.

A key Republican swing vote Lisa Murkowski, said earlier she was open to Ramirez getting a chance to testify but interesting that she added she does not want to see "further delay".

And Republican Richard Burr said immediately following Thursday's hearing, the Judiciary panel should vote on the nomination. So the key there is while Democrats have been hoping to get more witnesses and delay this drag this out longer, you are seeing tonight, Republicans closing ranks and saying no we need to move forward as early as Friday with a committee vote.

Then, we're hearing about the procedural vote, maybe Saturday and as early as Tuesday. A week from tonight, we may see a Senate floor vote on Kavanaugh up or down.

MACCALLUM: Ed, thank you very much. Joining me now, Brit Hume, Fox News senior political analysts. Brit, your thoughts first on this discussion, the back and forth that you heard from the Senators about the decision to put an attorney in there to do the questioning.

BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, there's considerable precedent for doing that. The issue though is that they haven't done that in this hearing. I mean, investigating committees often do that and they'll have a special counsel or a committee counsel who will lead the questioning.

So, there's plenty of precedent for it. This is obviously all about the politics of appearances. This has really nothing to do with the substance of the questioning. The Senators, I'm sure all believe that their great question is although many may not be. But, this is not -- they want to have a woman questioning a woman.

And the Democrats on the other side don't want to see that. They want to see a bunch of white guys questioning this -- and playing victim.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: (INAUDIBLE), but it tricks me that what everyone thinks back to in this arena is Anita Hill and Clarence Thomas. And all of the -- you know, there didn't get high marks for the way that they did the questioning. And some of them have since said that it didn't go well.

So, it kind of -- I understand what the Democratic Senators are saying that they think it strikes them as odd that they're going to have someone else be their voice in that room.

HUME: Well, it is. Yes, it's unusual in terms of the way these hearings have been conducted so far. But there's you know, there's ample precedent for it in the past, but it's -- this is really not about fact-finding at this point. This is about the appearances of -- that's really as always about.

Now, the woman interrogator, I don't know who she is. She may be very good and she may be very, very strong on both sides. And strong toward this woman accuser in a way that wouldn't look so good if a man we're doing it, that's really the key.

MACCALLUM: So, what about Murkowski? As you pointed out, you know, this is really all about a couple of votes.

HUME: Right.

MACCALLUM: It's all about how a couple of people believe this process plays out.

HUME: That's exactly where you keep hearing, critics of the Republicans saying the leadership or Republicans as a whole need to do this. It isn't about Republicans as it holds about a tiny handful of them, Lisa Murkowski being one of them.

She sounds like she's ready to go that, that what she wanted to do is to see this woman have a chance to be heard, and then, not unless she delivers some staggeringly persuasive testimony that Kavanaugh cannot adequately rebut. And I think that -- you know, she's looks like she's going to go.

Now, the question were not sure about Jeff Flake. Susan Collins is still out there. So, there's -- you know, there's still some votes out there. But if they can afford the Republicans can lose exactly one vote and get this nomination bill. One.

MACCALLUM: You also have talked about the background of all of this onslaught against Judge Kavanaugh. And I asked him last night whether he thought this went back to Roe v. Wade. And let's play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Do you have thoughts is this about Roe v. Wade? Is this about people who initially right off the bat? Said they wanted to see you never take the spot on the Supreme Court. Where is this all coming from?

KAVANAUGH: I just want a fair process where I can be heard.

MACCALLUM: You don't have any thoughts on what's -- where this is coming from?

KAVANAUGH: I just want a fair process where I can be heard, defend my integrity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: He didn't want to go there.

HUME: No. But it's absolutely the right question, Martha. Ask yourself this question. If somewhere along the way through a law review article, or something he said in a speech. This judge had signaled that he was a supporter of Roe versus Wade. Do we think any of this would be happening? I guarantee it would not.

And this is the root of this. His Roe versus Wade, a decision reached sort of almost out of nowhere that has been widely criticized even by many who like the result as a piece of sloppy, inventive legal reasoning.

And we have been living with the consequences of it for 45 years. It took this issue, this highly controversial and sensitive issue out of the political process and made it a constitutional right. And we have been fighting over it ever since, it failed utterly to resolve the issue and this, this episode with all of Sturm und Drang and drama and pain is a further consequence of that one decision.

MACCALLUM: And that's further emphasized by the fact that it's Murkowski and Collins that we're talking about.

HUME: Exactly right.

MACCALLUM: Because them, that is a very big issue in their home states of Alaska and Maine. I just want to -- we apparently just got a report that they will not delay the hearing. We don't know whether or not they're going to be a request to delay the hearing, but there's been some back-and- forth between the attorney (INAUDIBLE).

HUME: Oh, we have Dianne Feinstein was saying is what -- is Ed pointed out earlier that she couldn't guarantee that she's been the sponsor of this witness. She couldn't guarantee she would show up and there all these complaints about the hearing that she wants to further delay, I think the committee Republicans have had it. They're going to -- they're going to hold this hearing or not.

If she doesn't show up, there'll be no hearing, and they'll probably be a vote soon after.

MACCALLUM: That word came from Grassley, of course, he was the chairman of the committee. Just in terms of the broader impact of this, we're going to show in a little while the protests that are happening at Yale University against Judge Kavanaugh.

Ted Cruz and his wife tried to go out for dinner last night.

HUME: Right.

MACCALLUM: And this is how it went.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMERICAN CROWD: We believe survivors. We believe survivors. We believe survivors!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: It's unbelievable. I mean, you know, there's -- obviously sitting down for a nice dinner -- you know, they're dressed up, they go out, and these people swarm around them chanting, "We believe survivors."

HUME: Right. What's -- well, think about that. That kind of stuff may play well with a relatively small cadre of hardcore activists. I guarantee you, Martha. And I'm -- you know, I'm not around Washington, for now, seven or eight months of the year. That out in the rest of this country, that stuff looks terrible.

And it -- and it hurts the cause to the point we're Beto O'Rourke, who's running against Ted Cruz for his seat in Texas felt compelled to come out and denounce this as improper, inappropriate. This is not what Americans writ large are interested in seeing. And it's -- and it setback whatever cause these people are trying to promote.

MACCALLUM: Brit, thank you.

HUME: You bet, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Thanks for being here tonight. Coming up next, President Trump goes after Iran while their delegation glares back at him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We asked all nations to isolate Iran's regime as long as its aggression continues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, will that work? Former U.K. Brexit leader, Nigel Farage, joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: President Trump and Iranian President Rouhani exchanging a war of words today on the world stage. The President singling out the rogue regime in his address to the General Assembly calling on world leaders to help him to isolate Iran. Watch this.

TRUMP: Iran's leaders sow chaos, death, and destruction. They do not respect their neighbors or borders or the sovereign rights of nations. Instead Iran's leaders plundered the nation's resources to enrich themselves and to spread mayhem across the Middle East and far beyond. The United States has launched a campaign of economic pressure to deny the regime the funds it needs to advance its bloody agenda.

We asked all nations to isolate Iran regime as long as its aggression continues and we asked all nations to support Iran's people as they struggle to reclaim their religious and righteous destiny.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So President Rouhani did not waste time responding to that. He accuses President Trump of a Nazi disposition. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HASSAN ROUHANI, PRESIDENT OF IRAN (through translator): It is unfortunate that we are witnessing rulers in the world who think they can secure their interests better or at least in the short term right public sentiment and gain popular support through the fomenting of extremist nationalism and racism and through xenophobic tendencies resembling a Nazi disposition.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Joining me now Nigel Farage former U.K. Independence Party leader and a Fox News Contributor. Nigel, good evening. Good to see you tonight.

NIGEL FARAGE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Good evening.

MACCALLUM: What did you make of President Trump's remarks about Iran and Rouhani's response.

FARAGE: Well firstly, Rouhani's response. I mean it's a bit rich for the world's first Islamic extremist regime that's now been in place for 40 years to accuse others of racism, extremism, and Nazism which frankly in many ways is all that they've encompassed over these decades. I mean this is I think without doubt the most dangerous unpleasant regime in the world.

And Trump -- and clearly John Bolton being there now is a very important influence but Trump is calling on Iran. He's saying, look you guys are sponsoring terrorism, you're spreading it you know, across your borders. The deal that Obama struck with you did not work far from taming you, it made you worse.

And I have to say, it's very interesting but of all that was said today at the U.N. by Trump, Iran is the most interesting thing because today of all days the European Union's Foreign Minister Mrs Mogherini who by the way is unelected but never mind, and she said today the E.U. is facilitating easier trade with Iran. So you have Trump on collision course with the European Union over whether Iran are the good guys or the bad guys.

MACCALLUM: And you know, clearly this is all over the Iran deal and Trump's decision to pull out of the Iran deal and the E.U.'s pushback to that. President Trump clearly called for the allies to rally together. Is there anything that will change that in terms of the perspective from the U.K. or the rest of Europe?

FARAGE: Well, as far as the E.U. is concern, no, they are committed to the Obama idea that we should treat around as our friends and that we should embrace them economically. The Trump-Bolton idea is these guys were given a chance with the Iran Nuclear Deal, they abused it. They became even more terroristic. They spread their bad message all over that region. So no, those new positions are uncompromising. From a British point of view, it's very interesting. Brexit which will make us independent ultimately the U.K. would have to decide are we with America or with the E.U.

MACCALLUM: That's going to be a big moment in our relationship for sure.

FARAGE: A big moment.

MACCALLUM: Bret Baier sat down earlier this evening at the U.N. with the president of South Korea President Moon and he said something very interesting about the future of the nuclear program in North Korea. Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOON JAE-IN, PRESIDENT SOUTH KOREA (through translator): Chairman Kim actually wants within -- to achieve the complete denuclearization of North Korea with President Trump within his first term in office. So in order to make progress, he wants to have the second U.S. North Korea summit as soon as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Very strong claim. He says that Kim wants to have a denuclearization of North Korea within the first term of President Trump. Do you believe that?

FARAGE: Whether I believe it or not, the most important thing is world leaders who are set enemies sitting down talking together is a good thing. Winston Churchill used to say draw-draw is better than World War and I would welcome a second meeting between Trump of the North Koreans. I tell you what, no bad can come of it.

MACCALLUM: You know, obviously the world body, the U.N. is a controversial place. The President said something today that got a chuckle from the crowd. And I want to get your reaction to this. Let's play that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country, America's so true.

I didn't expect that reaction but that's OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: What do you think of that moment, Nigel?

FARAGE: Well, look, that was Donald Trump being Donald Trump. You know, Donald Trump will never ever undersell his achievements.

MACCALLUM: No.

FARAGE: He did it -- he did it in front of a very, very skeptical U.N. audience. They laughed. Whether it was with him or against him, it doesn't matter and it was the lightest moment of that speech because he went on from there to attack much what the U.N. stands for. And for me, I've got to tell you, Martha. I mean, I've spent 25 years fighting for national sovereignty against global bureaucracy and to me that speech today was an absolute joy. And in decades to come when people ask what was Trump's philosophy, what did he stand for? Do you know what? All of it you heard today in that speech.

MACCALLUM: Fascinating. Nigel, thank you very much. Great to see you tonight.

FARAGE: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So who can forget this moment when Senator Cory Booker said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CORY BOOKER, D-N.J.: This is about the closest I'll probably ever have in my life to an I am Spartacus moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Now, the New Jersey senator says that that had nothing to do with any presidential ambitions that he might have. Really? Chris Stirewalt has his own theory on all this. Plus this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Visual proof. So take it from me, Bigfoot, Erik Paulsen really exists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOOKER: This is about the closest I'll probably ever have in my life to an I am Spartacus moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: We played it twice because it's so much fun. Cory Booker's Spartacus moment on Capitol Hill earlier this month had a lot of people speculating that he is preparing a presidential bid but the New Jersey senator insists that he is not thinking about 2020. His sights are set on the midterm elections and that is exactly six weeks away but curtailing New York Times "my priority is flipping Congress seats at home so that we're spent that -- so we are spending a lot of time raising money for folks which is something that's really needed." Really?

Joining me now Chris Stirewalt, Fox News Politics Editor and Author of the new book Every Man A King: A Short Colorful History of American Populace. I highly recommend it. It is a great book. Chris, good to have you here this evening.

CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS POLITICS EDITOR: So Cory Booker is not running for president apparently.

STIREWALT: Well, you know, if you want to get extra help from Cory Booker or Kamala Harris or Bernie Sanders or any of the Democrats who probably are going to run in 2020 maybe be from Iowa. Maybe that would be extra helpful. Maybe it would be from New Hampshire, maybe it would be from an electorally important state. This is a charade and both parties do it every four years.

MACCALLUM: Sure, absolutely.

STIREWALT: This is this charade you go through. Because if you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar, if you get caught going for the presidential before the midterms are done, you look like a heel. You look like you're selfish. So you're like oh, I would never do anything like that. It's so farfetched.

MACCALLUM: It's sort of an unwritten rule even in you know, the work that we do. People are allowed to say to you I am definitely not running, and then they're allowed to say six months later I have decided -- I've changed mind.

STIREWALT: Does this dress make my butt look big?

MACCALLUM: All right, moving right along. Let's take a look at Florida because there's a new Quinnipiac poll that you say is very interesting. Florida is a state that Donald Trump won by I believe one percent.

STIREWALT: It was close, 116,000 votes.

MACCALLUM: So what do you think of this?

STIREWALT: This is a huge shift and it's a shift that we also saw reflected in an NBC News Marist Poll that was also out today. But the Quinnipiac poll is -- I prefer -- that's one of my faves.

MACCALLUM: Why do you like it?

STIREWALT: They do -- they have good methodology and they also share their crosstab so we can see how did -- how many Republicans, how are the Republicans voting, what are the independents say, and how, when --

MACCALLUM: The (INAUDIBLE) voters.

STIREWALT: And it's -- and they weren't a likely voter poll. And this is -- this tells me -- and also it tells me about the persistent lead that the Democratic gubernatorial candidate has in Florida, Andrew Gillum. The Democrats in Florida -- that something switch down there. Some switch, flipped in Florida. I don't know whether it has to do with Kavanaugh, I don't know if it has to do with something else, whether it's state issues about -- they've had this red tide --

MACCALLUM: The red tide.

STIREWALT: -- and all these stuff.

MACCALLUM: Rick Scott got shouted out of a restaurant himself or some public place recently over that issue.

STIREWALT: So something happened in Florida over the last couple few weeks that has changed the climate they're in a pretty dramatic way and it's reflected in several polls.

MACCALLUM: Very interesting. All right, Arizona is another one that is going to be very closely watched. Kyrsten Sinema and Martha McSalley, this one is it's pretty tight.

STIREWALT: You know I love this race. This is like my theory. On election night, when you say we're going to talk about Arizona, you're going to say let's go to Chris because I will say, this has been my favorite all along. You have two moderate female members of Congress running against each other in a state that is politically changing in a very close race.

MACCALLUM: For the seat of Jeff Flake.

STIREWALT: Yes. For the seat of Jeff Flake in a very, very close race. This one is going to be contested brutally and intensely every step of the way. It's going to tell us a lot about the climate, it's going to tell us a lot about the electorate and they are two -- they are two good campaigners that are running to good campaigns. I love to see it.

MACCALLUM: So here is a very interesting ad. People get creative, right. This guy is creative with--

(CROSSTALK)

STIREWALT: I love to say I'm with you.

MACCALLUM: And I know you really like this one so let's play it. We get at Chris's reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I started to wonder, did Paulson really do it? I mean where is the proof, some blurry photo taken from an hours away?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: I love that it's universally understood that if you walk that way--

STIREWALT: Right.

MACCALLUM: -- everyone goes back to the big foot in the woods picture.

STIREWALT: Which is, I get this taken from when I walk down over the train station.

MACCALLUM: When you said as you do the briefcase thing.

STIREWALT: So Erik Paulson has a reputation, they are trying to stick Erik Paulson, the Republican incumbent in Minnesota and the argument being, he's never in the district, he's always at home.

But using humor is a good idea. There is a famous Mitch McConnell ad from long, long ago where they are leading a pack of bloodhounds through the woods to try to find the missing congressman. They are going to find the missing congressman.

Using humor is a good idea, a connection with voters, and they are going to remember this in the district long after they have forgotten attack at 1,137.

MACCALLUM: And people always think, ha-ha, funny, when they think Mitch McConnell.

STIREWALT: Here is the turtle, here is the turtle, that's all I can tell you.

MACCALLUM: Chris, thank you.

STIREWALT: You bet.

MACCALLUM: Thanks for being up here tonight. Good to see you. So coming up, more than two dozen professors at one school canceled classes in order to let their students protest Brett Kavanaugh. So, what does this say about Brett Kavanaugh situation? About college campuses? When we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So in a sign of the times on college campuses, more than 30 professors at Yale Law School today canceled their classes yesterday so that the students could protest Judge Brett Kavanaugh. The question is, would they do the same if his supporters wanted to protest en masse, would their classes have also been canceled?

The debate comes as we see him how much the higher education can shape opinions. In a recent Fox News poll, those with a college degree lean towards believing the accuser Christine Ford, while a .14 percent margin while those without a college degree seem to side with Kavanaugh by a 17- point margin.

My next guest understands all of this. He argues that a lack of intellectual diversity is leaving students unprepared for the real world. Here and now is Greg Lukianoff, a speech lawyer, co-author of a New York Times bestseller, "The Coddling of the American Minds: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas are Setting up a Generation of Failures." And there it is.

So my first question for you, is, you know, first of all, these are law students that are protesting. And they have not yet heard the hearing.

GREG LUKIANOFF, AUTHOR, THE CODDLING OF THE AMERICAN MINDS: Right.

MACCALLUM: So they haven't heard both sides yet, so I'm wondering if that and of itself is a little bit of a problem?

LUKIANOFF: Well, it's one thing as we talk about the book. Polarization is one of the threads and everybody has got their war hats on and universities which could be kind of increasing understanding between the two different sides, seems to actually be making it more intense.

MACCALLUM: So, are they -- I love this word, catastrophizing.

LUKIANOFF: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Like everything is suddenly catastrophe.

LUKIANOFF: Yes.

MACCALLUM: That we need to protest, right?

LUKIANOFF: Well, we've seen this real sharp rise in anxiety and depression on campus and our answer to it is saying, we are teaching the generation the habit to be anxious, depress and polarize people so we really shouldn't be that surprise if they are anxious, depressed, and polarized.

MACCALLUM: You know, I mean, we live in a world in a country that has, you know, a very strong economy.

LUKIANOFF: Yes.

MACCALLUM: So many advantages, probably the safest, one of the safest countries that you could live in the world.

LUKIANOFF: Yes.

MACCALLUM: And yet they are terrified, they're scared, they anxious, they're depressed. What explains that?

LUKIANOFF: You know, a lot of it I got to say it's parenting. It's the people from my generation.

MACCALLUM: It's my fault.

LUKIANOFF: They were pretty (Inaudible). Yes. It's like, you know, we're raising our kids as if it's much more dangerous than it's ever been before, when in fact it's actually safer than it's ever been before. And part of our job, you know, with this book is try to tell people that you can calm down a little bit.

MACCALLUM: How do you advise parents -- it's probably too late for my kids. But I mean, how do you get them to, you know, lower the anxiety level.

LUKIANOFF: Yes.

MACCALLUM: And to understand that, you know, a lot of bumps come along the road, and you have to kind of expect them and accept them as part of the process.

LUKIANOFF: Well, helicopter parenting has to go for one thing. Free play, one of the most simple things in the world, letting your kids go run around and solve some problems by themselves without your -- without parents having to get involve.

And we really take that play part really seriously. Because what we're afraid of is we have a generation that's always looking to authority and power to solve our (Inaudible) and that's not even good for democracy.

MACCALLUM: So in terms of, you know, how you -- you talk about coddling the American mind, so that coddling is sort of built in to the university system, isn't it?

LUKIANOFF: Yes. I mean, one thing that all universities need to do, and people are lamenting, we have to give up on the university who don't believe in free speech anymore but how many universities even bother explaining freedom of speech or (Inaudible) freedom and orientation?

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, I've always felt that you shouldn't be able to graduate from college unless you have a course that teaches you liberalism and conservatism and allows debate to happen between people who feels strongly on both sides.

Because I think a lot of kids graduate from college and they don't even really understand the tenets of both -- of both sides.

LUKIANOFF: Yes. I think that if I could wave a magic wand, and having people do political debates where they have to take the opposite side from what they actually believe would help a lot with the proper understanding--

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: You are going to have to retrain parents, though, right?

LUKIANOFF: Yes. That's right. We are trying.

MACCALLUM: I mean, retraining parents is a big -- is a big part of this.

LUKIANOFF: We are trying. Lenore Skenazy we talk a lot to her and she is a friend, this free range mom who wants us to sort of ease up on her kids and retrain parents so they are not so paranoid and polarized.

MACCALLUM: But they arrest free range moms now.

(CROSSTALK)

LUKIANOFF: That's the scary stuff of all.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

LUKIANOFF: We talk about this in the book.

MACCALLUM: The kid walks to the school and the parents get called down to the police station.

LUKIANOFF: Yes. We say this absolutely. Step one, stop arresting people for letting their kids walk to school.

MACCALLUM: That's incredible.

LUKIANOFF: Yes.

MACCALLUM: That's ridiculous.

Greg, thank you.

LUKIANOFF: Thanks so much, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Thank you very much. Good to have you here tonight.

LUKIANOFF: Thanks.

MACCALLUM: So coming up next, from America's dad. This is an unreal story, right. Look at this, this is Bill Cosby in handcuffs being marched out of the courthouse. I never thought I would see that when I was watching the Cosby show as a kid, but that's what we saw today. So here's the question about whether or not he will, how long will he be there, three to 10 years is what we're hearing. That story is up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN STEELE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Finally, Bill Cosby has been unmasked and we have seen the real man as he is headed off to prison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: What a story this is. America's dad as he was once known is spending his first night behind bars as a, quote, "sexually violent predator." Late this afternoon, a federal judge sentenced Bill Cosby up to 10 years in prison for drugging and assaulting a woman over a decade ago. Prosecutors say the 81-year-old has finally been unmasked as the criminal that he is.

Trace Gallagher live in our west coast newsroom with the details.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. The district attorney in this case said that Bill Cosby was hiding behind his TV character Cliff Huxtable. He went on to say that was a fictional character but now the true Cosby has been unmasked as a violent sexual predator who will spend at least the next three years behind bars.

When Judge Steven O'Neill read the sentence, he said, quoting Mr. Cosby, this has all circled back to you. The day has come, the time has come."

Our producer in the courtroom said both Cosby and his accuser showed little to no emotion. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISSA KAPLAN, FOX NEWS PRODUCER: I could see his back, he didn't react, he kind of just sat there. Andrea same thing, didn't react. They both were very calm. Andrea, at one point though, after the sentence was read looked to be like hunched over and kind of just looking down contemplating what had happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Of course Andrea, being Andrea Constand, the woman who was drugged and sexually assaulted by Bill Cosby. She didn't speak after the hearing but her five-page victim impact statement submitted to the court was powerful reading in part, quoting, "Bill Cosby took my beautiful young healthy spirit and crushed it. He robbed me of my health and vitality, my open nature and my trust in myself and others."

The D.A. Kevin Steele praised Constand as a woman of strength and determination. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEELE: She has been solid and steadfast, put herself out like this for years in front of a worldwide. It's extremely difficult for anyone. She's been a rock.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Dozens of other women also came forward claiming Cosby had drugged and sexually assaulted them but the statute of limitations on those cases had expired.

As Bill Cosby was led out of the courtroom in cuffs and placed in the back of an SUV, his spokesperson said Cosby had been persecuted. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW WYATT, BILL COSBY'S SPOKESPERSON: They prosecuted Jesus and look what happened. Not saying Mr. Cosby is Jesus but we know this country has done for black men for centuries. So Mr. Cosby is doing fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Yet, the 81-year-old Cosby who is legally blind has now been booked into the Montgomery County Jail where he will be processed and sent to state prison. It remains unclear if he'll be placed into the general population, his attorneys are appealing the conviction. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you very much. So, coming up here tonight, new details that have just come in. We've all been wondering what the format is going to be on Thursday morning, we now know. We will tell you that in a moment.

Senator Lindsey Graham on the committee with the new information, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Do you believe there should be an FBI investigation into these allegations and that a pause should happen and, you know, sort it all out? If there is nothing to worry about and nothing to hide, why not have that process.

KAVANAUGH: I want an opportunity a fair process. America is about fairness and I want a fair process where I can defend my integrity and clear my name as quickly as I can in whatever form the Senate deems appropriate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That was in reaction to the question about whether or not they believe an FBI investigation should take place. And to this, Judge Brett Kavanaugh speaking out exclusively to THE STORY as he called for fairness ahead of Thursday's hearing.

We are getting some details now for the very first time tonight about the format and what all of this is actually going to look like at the Senate judiciary committee.

Chairman Grassley and Ranking Member Feinstein will deliver opening statement. Dr. Christine Ford will deliver her opening statement with no time limit, where she will tell her story. There will then be one round of questions, five minutes each for each senator and Judge Kavanaugh will then get the exact same opportunity.

Here now, South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham who sits on that committee. Senator Graham, good to have you here.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C.: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Do you believe that this is going to go forward? What are the indications from her attorneys is this going to happen?

GRAHAM: If it doesn't happen I would be surprised because they've been asking to be heard. They are going to be hurt if they want to. They are going to pick our lawyer and they're not going to decide who goes first.

You know, Senator Grassley has spent over backwards to be fair. Not one once of fairness has come from our Democratic colleagues about an FBI investigation. If you really wanted one, why didn't you tell us in July when you first got this accusation? What's the FBI going to investigate?

You can't tell -- you can't tell the FBI the month it happened, you can't tell the FBI where it happened. What are they supposed to do? Go talk to your buddy mayor (Ph) in 1982? I have never -- Judge Kavanaugh says he wants a fair process, you come to the wrong town at the wrong time.

MACCALLUM: What do you say to those who criticize you for that attitude about it who say you know, you are not open to listening to what she has to say?

GRAHAM: I would say this. If you really believe this was a serious accusation, why didn't you bring it forward in July? Dr. Ford is being abused as much as anybody else. She said she didn't want to come forward, somebody on the other side leak her name, not us.

She's been a victim of this as much as Kavanaugh has. And here's what I'm telling your audience. This is an accusation that's 35 years old. You can't tell me where it happened or when it happened and everybody named in terms of having been there say it didn't happen. So what am I supposed to do?

MACCALLUM: One of the questions is about the burden. Who bears the burden is.

GRAHAM: Right.

MACCALLUM: And Senator Chris Coons said something quite remarkable about this. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS COONS, D-DEL.: It is Judge Kavanaugh who is seeking a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court, and do I think now bears the burden of disproving these allegations, rather than Dr. Ford and Ms. Ramirez.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Is that how it works?

GRAHAM: They must have missed something in law school. So here's what Chris is saying. And I like Chris. Judge Kavanaugh you have to prove to me that you were not at a party 35 years ago and you didn't sexually assault somebody at that party, but I can't tell you where it was and when it was.

And here's what Kavanaugh said. I've never sexually assaulted anybody anywhere at any time, but under this construct he will have to prove 35 years ago he wasn't at a party and they won't tell him when it was and where it was, and how are you supposed o do that?

MACCALLUM: Good question. It's interesting, Joe Biden in 1991 said this about the presumption of innocence. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: Judge, with me from the beginning, and at this moment until the end, the presumption is with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: It's remarkable.

GRAHAM: Well, we miss Joe Biden. Here's the presumption. Anything Trump, fair game, no rules when it comes to Trump or his nominees. They knew about this in July, they sit on it. We have an allegation that's collapsing.

I've never been more upset than I am now. I voted for Sotomayor and Kagan. I didn't do this to them. Judge Kavanaugh doesn't deserve this. Ms. Ford doesn't deserve what happened to her. We're going to play this out.

And I can tell everybody who is listening. That everything about Judge Kavanaugh screams this is not true. He is not Bill Cosby. He's not Weinstein. He's lived a good life. This is an allegation 35 years old that's unverified and I'm not going to ruin his life based on that. Show me something credible that yet to do it.

MACCALLUM: With regard to the FBI investigation, do we have time to play this one other sound bite here? All right. Let's play Joe Biden also in 1991 talking about the rule of an FBI investigation. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: FBI does not explicitly in this or any other case reach a conclusion. Period. So when people waive an FBI report before you, understand, they do not, they do not, they do not reach conclusions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That's incredible. Everyone -- everyone on one side of the aisle on the Hill is screaming for an FBI investigation and, Joe Biden who is pretty much the standard bearer of the Democratic Party says quite clearly there, that is simply not what they do.

GRAHAM: The other side had this in July, they went seven weeks without bringing it up and they drop it a week or three or four days before we vote. The FBI has told me, we don't know how to help you. We don't know where to go, we don't know what town to go, we don't know what month to look at, we're not even sure about the year.

So this is just an excuse to destroy this man's life. This is not about fairness, this is about destroying Brett Kavanaugh to make sure Trump doesn't get a second pick. It's about no more, no less, and in the process they are destroying Ms. Ford, too in my view.

Something may have happened to her. I don't know her. I'm respectful of people who've gone through bad experiences but I have to use some common sense here and I've been a lawyer all my life. And you could not get a warrant based on this allegation. You can't tell me when it happened or where it happened and everybody says it doesn't happen.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Now you have the format you each are going to get five minutes. How is this going to reach with this other attorney involved and why?

GRAHAM: We're going to basically give her our time. It's pretty hard to interview somebody effectively in five minutes and stop so we are going to have a professional litigator who is trained to do this.

MACCALLUM: Who is this person?

GRAHAM: I'll let the committee tell you about it. It will be a trained professional. We're not trying to make politics out of this, we are trying to make sure that 11 politicians are not in the limelight here.

MACCALLUM: So none of you will question at all?

GRAHAM: If I have a question I'm sure I will ask it. But I want to turn it over to the person who has more experience than I do. I'm trying to tell people that this bothers me. I voted for their nominees, I never would thought have to do this to Sotomayor and Kagan.

These allegations are collapsing and the second allegation couldn't even make it in The New York Times. And only God knows what Avenatti is going to say. Everything in this man's life screams that he's been respectful to women. When he's been in charge of women in their careers, they have nothing but great things to say.

MACCALLUM: Let me ask you this. Do you think that we will see a repeat from Cory Booker and Kamala Harris, the senators who try to stop the proceedings. Are they going to say Thursday morning, no way. We want an FBI investigation. We are not going to let this move forward?

GRAHAM: Come Thursday morning, Ms. Ford, Dr. Ford, will have a chance to come and tell the committee in her own words what happened. Kavanaugh will have a chance to respond and we've been ask questions. We are not going to move it, we're not going to delay it, just like in arsonist complaining about a fire. These are the people who put in this box.

MACCALLUM: And the vote will be on Friday.

GRAHAM: And this vote will be Friday, and unless something new comes out to give veracity to a 35-year-old claim that I don't have today, I'm moving forward to.

MACCALLUM: Al right. Thank you very much, Senator Lindsey Graham.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Good to have you with us tonight. That is our story on this Tuesday evening. Live from the rooftop here on Washington, D.C., we will see you back in New York tomorrow night at 7 o'clock. Tucker Carlson is coming up next with his show straight ahead. Thanks for being here, everybody.

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