Republican Thom Tillis wins reelection to Senate from North Carolina

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Republican Thom Tillis wins reelection to Senate from North Carolina

Incumbent holds off Democrat Cal Cunningham in a closely watched race; Mark Meredith reports.

This is a rush transcript from “Your World with Cavuto” November 10, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto, and this is YOUR WORLD.

And, all of a sudden, things are starting to fall into place for Republicans who didn't want to risk losing the United States Senate. It's not a done deal, but the fact that Thom Tillis did secure his seat in North Carolina makes it a closer-to-done deal, with everyone watching the Georgia run-off races that will determine the outlook for the United States Senate.

If the Republicans can hang on to both seats, there is no debate. They have got it. If they lose both seats, there's no debate. They do not have it. If they split, well, yes, they still have it. I know it's a couple of variables and issues that we have to consider here. But, well, it's been an interesting election year, hasn't it?

Let's go to Mark Meredith with the latest on what this means right now.

Hey, Mark.

MARK MEREDITH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Neil, good afternoon.

Well, now North Carolina knows for sure who's going to be representing them in the Senate for the next six years. Thom Tillis, he declared himself the winner of this race Tuesday night at his watch party near Charlotte. But, since then, the Democrat in this race, Cal Cunningham, was holding out hope that some of these absentee and provisional ballots that were still needing to be counted may give him enough of an edge to keep him in this race.

But ever since Tuesday night, we had seen Tillis leading Cunningham by about 97,000 votes or so, those numbers not changing all that much. So there was every day that went by less and less of a chance that Cunningham was going to be able to unseat Tillis in this race.

Neil, there was a tremendous amount of money, over $100 million, spent on this race, both parties putting a lot of time and energy into North Carolina. Tillis was only in his first term right now. He had won his first term back in 2014 by less than 50,000 votes. So they certainly saw him someone that was vulnerable.

But Cunningham faced a real scandal in the final weeks of his campaign, after he admitted to having an inappropriate relationship outside of his marriage. It's unclear how much that may have impacted the final result.

But just speaking to voters -- I spoke to one woman in Charlotte -- she said, "I could kill Cal Cunningham," because she felt that he was the one that jeopardized his own chances in this race.

But Thom Tillis realizes that this is a state that is still considered a battleground that can flip either way, likely trying to find issues -- find a way to work with the Democratic governor here, as well as what's going to be happening in Washington, but Thom Tillis very thankful to be spending another six years here in D.C.

The Republicans on the ground in North Carolina, they were frustrated that this race still had not been called. But they had been waiting and waiting for the state board of elections to release these new numbers from the individual counties on the ground here. They also tell us now, Neil -- this is -- I just got done speaking to the chairman of the GOP party here.

He says their next stop, Georgia. They're going to be sending volunteers from on the ground here in North Carolina just a few miles down the road to another battleground state ahead of those two Senate contests early next year.

But, Neil, a lot of Republicans very happy to see Thom Tillis will remain in North Carolina for their Senate seat. As for Cal Cunningham, it's unclear what he will do next -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  All right, thank you very much, Mark Meredith.

All right, to Chad Pergram right now on how this changes things or maybe reinforces things, as we know.

Now, of course, January 5 is now looking like a more crucial day than ever

-- Chad.

CHAD PERGRAM, FOX NEWS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT:  This is why Joe Biden last hour was saying that he wants to get to a tie in the United States Senate. That's why those two Georgia seats in those run-offs on January 5 are so crucial, because then he could have vice president-elect Harris break ties in the Senate.

Also, Neil, this is why Senate Republicans are sticking so close to President Trump. They are allowing him to contest races here, sticking close to him, because they know that that energizes their base going into Georgia.

Here's the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY):  I think we ought to quit all the hand- wringing, not act like this is extraordinary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM:  Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer says Republicans are risking credibility.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D-NY):  Every day that goes by without the Republican Party acknowledging and accepting the results of the election is another day Americans' faith in our democracy declines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM:  That some Republicans concede privately it's hard for the president to prevail, they realize the president's power eventually evaporates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID GREENBERG, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY:  The closer Trump gets to the exit, the closer we get to January 20, the more that is going to wane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM:  And this is why Georgia is so important.

Republicans are basically using the popularity of the president -- and I use that because they say, look, he got 71 million votes. He helped Republican Senate and House candidates down-ballot. That's why they're using him to help stoke the embers here with this election recount here, the litigation here. They believe that that helps them in Georgia -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  You know, Chad, in Georgia, David Perdue is in and out of that 50 percent mark that would indicate a recount. But if you don't have that, he slips over 50 percent, then you don't have to have another election.

So it would come down to just Senator Loeffler's election. How does that look?

PERGRAM:  That's right.

It's 50.1 percent. And this is a very important point, because Kelly Loeffler's term, she is fulfilling the unexpired term of Johnny Isakson. So her term will continue whether or not there's a winner declared on the 5th.

David Perdue, if he is in that run-off, his term expires at 11:59:59 a.m.

On January 3, and that seat is vacant. So you would be down at least by one seat total in the United States Senate for the first few days of the 117th Congress.

CAVUTO:  Isn't the issue too with the Republican argument to count the votes -- I get that -- that they took it to another level to say, what we have got now is rigged and fraudulent?

Isn't that what's causing all the discord, not that we're counting in these close states, but that they prejudged it that it's fixed?

PERGRAM:  And that's what Chuck Schumer is talking about. And that's why there is some risk for Republicans going into this.

Keep in mind, from Georgia, they elected a House member, a representative- elect who has associated herself with QAnon. And there is a risk at some point whether Republicans are going down a wrong road here. There's questions about credibility if they continue to fight that battle where there's no way that they can possibly win.

That is a danger for Republicans. But, like I say, simultaneously, it does get out voters in Georgia, and they have to do that. That's why Vice President Mike Pence, who was here at the Capitol today, meeting with Senate Republicans over lunch, he's going to go down and campaign.

And that's why Joe Biden is talking about this. In some respects, if Joe Biden, in fact, takes office on the 20th of January, people are going to go back and say, how did he help or hurt in those races in January? In some respects, that is the first referendum in both of those contests on the Biden presidency -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  That's very interesting and very true. I didn't think of that.

Thank you very much, my friend, Chad Pergram, keeping track of these developments.

Let's go to Jonathan Serrie in Atlanta right now with those two run-off elections in play, and maybe, maybe, Jonathan, just one in the end in play.

What are you hearing?

JONATHAN SERRIE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Yes, there's a lot of money going into these races.

Republicans and Democrats spent about $200 million these two Senate races going into the general election, and they're expected to even top that going into the January 5 run-off.

You know, what Chad was saying about rallying the base by questioning the integrity of the election, that really is coming into play here in Georgia.

Georgia's two Republican senators, Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue, have closely allied themselves with President Trump.

And without providing details or proof, they're raising questions about the integrity of the Georgia election, even calling on the state's top elections official, Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, to resign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAMAR HALLERMAN, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION:  They know that they have to keep Trump's faithful motivated in the lead-up to this run-off election. It's going to be all about turnout. And they have made the calculation that this is the best way to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERRIE:  Democrats Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff are challenging Senators Loeffler and Perdue on largely national issues, such as the Affordable Care Act.

Democratic Party organizers believe liberal voters will stay motivated because of Joe Biden's strong performance in this one solidly red state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STACEY ABRAMS, FOUNDER, FAIR FIGHT:  It's hard to believe in a new South or a now South when, every single election, you can just this close. We were Lucy and the football.

This time, we have made the field goal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERRIE:  And Stacey Abrams' voting rights organization Fair Fight has raised $9.8 million online just since Friday. It's going to be split three ways between her organization and the two Democratic Senate races in this state, just an indication of how much interest there is in these highly competitive run-offs in the state of Georgia -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  You know, Jonathan, they talk about fraud and things that were rigged and all this, but how can now advocating the Republican secretary of state resign?

Are they claiming that he allowed this to happen or he oversaw it? I mean, or was it just a close vote, and this is where we stand? This is why the race for president isn't determined there. This is why neither of these races are finally determined there.

SERRIE:  Yes, these two senators, in their joint statement, they used terms like failure and lack of transparency, but they really didn't offer any details.

As far as the integrity of the election, the secretary of state's office says, as with any election, they are likely to find that there are a handful of people who were allowed to vote who shouldn't have voted, or people who may not have been qualified to be registered to vote.

They say that they will investigate any claim of wrongdoing in this election. But when it comes to the sheer numbers of any illegal ballots, they say that the chances of those numbers being great enough to make a difference in the outcome of election is highly unlikely.

CAVUTO:  All right, Jonathan Serrie, thank you very, very much.

Of course, this was the perfect tonic that Wall Street wanted to see. If it's going to be Joe Biden assuming office on January 20, if things hold as they are right now, the one tonic for the markets was this notion that the Senate would remain in Republican control.

If that looks likely, so be it. And that's why the buying continues, that, of course, and promising news on the vaccine front that carried over to today.

Charles Payne is with us, Eliza Collins of The Wall Street Journal.

Charles, to you first on this.

The Street is counting on the Senate staying in Republican hands, right? I mean, play out the possibility if they go 0 and 2 in George. Then what?

CHARLES PAYNE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR:  Well, then the first thing that you would be looking at is the Trump tax cuts being vulnerable.

If you look at all of the things that Joe Biden has on his agenda, the one that he needs or the lowest-hanging fruit would be repealing those tax cuts. But he needs 51 votes in the Senate to do it, of course, in Congress.

CAVUTO:  Right.

PAYNE:  There are some other things that a lot of the other parts of his agenda, he would need 60 votes to do it, including additional stimulus, expanding the Obamacare Medicare actions that he might want to take, new carbon taxes, abolishing private prisons, infrastructure.

We know that. Two year-free college. Raising the national minimum wage. So there's a lot of things already on his agenda that it would be tough to go for.

But the lowest-hanging fruit, the thing that most -- a lot of people at least that I associate with, including myself, believe really was most impactful were the Trump tax cuts. You would need 51 senators there. If that went the other way, then a whole lot of what we have seen prior to the pandemic could be unraveled.

CAVUTO:  You know, Eliza, obviously, it's one thing to keep the vote going and the count going. I mean, these were close states, Georgia included, Pennsylvania included.

Arizona, I know there's a lot of us fuss back and forth about whether all the ballots are being counted properly or will eventually be. But, by prejudging it, as many in the administration have, that it's fixed, it's fraudulent, it's rigged, that now the attorney general of the United States is going to be looking into it, does it hurt their case?

Does it does it seem to imply that? If it comes back and the votes still show Joe Biden is going to be the president-elect of the United States, how does that help their cause?

ELIZA COLLINS, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL:  Well, it could rally their base, as you guys were talking about earlier, in those Senate races in Georgia.

But it is highly unlikely. I mean, just the sheer number of states that Biden is leading in, and by the margins, yes, it is tight races, but these are thousands and thousands of votes. So it is pretty unlikely that these lawsuits would be able to change votes in enough states to flip the presidency.

Of course, the president won in 2016 by margins very similar. So it's a very difficult argument to make. But, at this moment, Republicans seem to be sort of indulging in...

CAVUTO:  But is there a danger, Eliza, by making that argument or questioning the final results, whatever they are, that they're tainted, that the president and his people, maybe not intentionally, but clearly right now, early on, are questioning the veracity of that, the accuracy of that?

And so we have the recount, it confirms that, do they then fall back, the president graciously say, Joe Biden, congratulations? Or does it lead to a chill that goes well beyond Inauguration Day?

COLLINS:  Well, this is very unprecedented. So I have no idea what exactly will happen.

But, earlier today, we saw Joe Biden. He said he hasn't talked to Mitch McConnell, the majority leader in the Senate. And McConnell and Biden have a relationship.

CAVUTO:  Yes.

COLLINS:  So, Biden sort of expressed this optimism that he would talk to McConnell, that Republicans would ultimately get on board and be able to work with him.

But, I mean, right now, he led in enough seats to win well over 270 votes.

And Republicans, including in leadership, are questioning that. So I imagine that makes it difficult to govern going into next year.

CAVUTO:  Yes, could be.

But, Charles, I always see things through the prism of Wall Street here.

And they don't like any uncertainty. They seem to be certain right now that it's going to be President Biden next year, without any ill will, that the president would be gracious in the event these counts confirm what we already see.

So, play that out.

PAYNE:  Remember, after -- when Al Gore contested the outcome of that election, the S&P 500 crumbled all the way until it was finally, OK, the Supreme Court came through with it?

So, look at the reaction post-election this time around, with President Trump asking questions that many of his supporters, most of them think he should be asking. I think you were right about him galvanizing the base.

The people that love President Trump love him because he's a fighter, he's an outsider. They feel he was never treated properly the first moment he set foot in D.C. and that everything was against him. So they want to see him fight.

I think ultimately, if he does -- if it does look like he's lost this, if Bill Barr says there's no shenanigans, he will gracefully hand it over, look forward to the next chapter.

In the meantime, you're right, though. Wall Street believes that the GOP will win the Senate. And the best proof of that, in the last five days, the number one performing sector, energy. Remember, that last debate, Joe Biden made it pretty clear he's not a fan of fossil fuels. Energy up 11 percent in the last five days, number two, financials.

Those are another area. They wanted to tax Wall Street to death. The worst performing sector of all 11 S&P sectors are utilities, where they were supposed to be the biggest winner under a Biden administration because they would funnel trillions of dollars to these utility companies. Like, NextEra made a big -- a lot of money under Obama/Biden.

So, Wall Street has already made it pretty clear where they think everything falls out.

CAVUTO:  Yes, so no surprises. They don't want any surprises.

Guys, I want to thank you both very, very much.

Corner of your screen there, you can see we were up again on the Dow Jones industrials here. And a lot of it had to do with the fall-over from, of course, what we saw yesterday with the good news, the vaccine news, we got out of the likes of Pfizer and BioNTech.

And, by the way, there are a couple of other key players we will tell you about.

But, in the meantime, this whole election debate over what has to be recounted and where, what's fraudulent, what's rigged, all of that, the impact it could have got a little bit more, shall we say, anti today from no less than the attorney general of the United States.

We will explore and explain -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, the president's fight over this count now got the help and the aid of the attorney general the United States, Bill Barr now pushing on election inquiry, of course, all of these states.

Gillian Turner has more in Washington on what he's thinking about and what he's signaling -- Gillian.

GILLIAN TURNER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Hi, Neil.

So, the attorney general has now broken his silence for the first time since Election Day, ordering the U.S. attorney to investigate any substantial allegations of voter irregularities.

Now, Bill Barr's memo that he put out on this is clear and concise. Let's pull it up on the screen for you. He says: "While serious allegations should be handled with great care, specious, speculative, fanciful or far- fetched claims should not be a basis for initiating federal inquiries.

Nothing here should be taken as any indication that the department has concluded that voting irregularities have impacted the outcome of any election."

Now, a week after Election Day, some states are still left tallying votes, not entirely surprising, as the United States saw record numbers of mail-in ballots. The president and his allies say, it's fine, really, that he's using this period to accuse state pollsters of fraud.

Take a listen to Senator McConnell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCONNELL:  What it says about America is that, until the Electoral College votes, anyone who's running for office can exhaust concerns about counting in any court of appropriate jurisdiction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TURNER:  Now, Neil, Democrats like Senator Dick Durbin say the opposite here. They're saying that the president using this time to launch these accusations and investigations really amounts to election interference.

So, this battle is raging on, on Capitol Hill today -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  All right, Gillian Turner, thank you very much, my friend.

Go to Jim Trusty, the former DOJ prosecutor.

Jim, great to have you back.

I think, with the attorney general's involvement, what does that mean? How does he sort of lead this charge or lead -- via this memo, signal where it's going?

JAMES TRUSTY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR:  Look, I think it's actually being overstated.

I mean, if you already suffer from irritable Barr syndrome, you're not going to really listen to the nuance of this. But the bottom line is, the memo that he created that got leaked out basically says, we're going to let you, as independent U.S. attorneys, as senior officials within DOJ, look into election fraud, if you think you have it. You don't have to consult with the Public Integrity Section.

And he's not prejudging that there's cases to be made or not. He's just basically loosening up the bureaucracy in case there's a big one. If there is a big one, he says in this memo, we don't really want to wait until it's too late to do anything about it.

So all he's doing is essentially saying, look, this isn't going to be throttled on a D.C. level. It's going to be something that you can pursue, in your judgment, if you think there's a real case out there.

CAVUTO:  His critics immediately jumped on this to say, he's doing the president's bidding. He's not acting as attorney general. He's acting as a campaign staffer.

What do you say to that?

TRUSTY:  Yes, I mean, look, these are folks that they're going to give you that reaction, no matter what. There's a lot of people that feel very much against the attorney general.

But I have read the memo a couple of times. I used to be at DOJ. I was at a U.S. attorney's office before that. I get the vibe. When you're at a U.S.

attorney's office, you're not dying to involve main Justice on every issue.

And this basically says, hey, if you find something that's huge, you're on your own, go for it, not wait in line at DOJ and hope that somebody at Public Integrity authorizes it.

So, yes, look, I don't think that's a radical proposition. I think it's one that respects the career prosecutors out in the offices and one that he will get criticism for, but it's unfounded.

CAVUTO:  So, the real issue is the count, right, and when they go through the votes and count all the votes, and then stuff that can come up as they're doing the count, the predictable dead votes that come in and happen every election, but are they significant enough to tip the race this go- round?

So, from a legal perspective, it's not just then about counting those ballots, right? I mean, what else is involved here to weed out chicanery or, as the administration has said, fraud?

TRUSTY:  Right

Well, there's a bunch of layers to this, right? You have to have evidence that is going to withstand judicial scrutiny. And, frankly, some of these lawsuits are starting to gravitate in that direction. Like, the Michigan 78-page complaint has testimonials, has declarations of people saying, we backdated ballots.

So, you have a chance, if you have got sufficient scale, like you're making mention of, to affect the overall vote. But the other challenges are more constitutional, like the Pennsylvania Supreme Court creating new rules, against the legislature's wishes.

That's the type of stuff that can win the day and create some sort of remedy all the way up to a revote in Pennsylvania, based on the conduct the separation of powers issue and the constitutional violation, as opposed to good-old fashioned cheating.

So, there's a combination of lawsuits that are out there. They're all going to have to be proven up with some level of satisfaction to these courts.

But they're not, on their face, outrageous.

There's some -- again, there's sworn statements attached to them. And there's at least some allegations.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:  But what would trigger a revote? Just to be clear on that, what would trigger a revote? I have heard that mentioned in more than a couple of states. What would actually trigger that? Signs or clear signs of impropriety or falsely submitted ballots? What?

TRUSTY:  I think it's going to have to be intentional misconduct and stuff that is not easy to quantify, although it's massive.

And Pennsylvania has the best likelihood of that, because, if they didn't segregate late ballots, and it turns out those late ballots are invalid, then what's the solution? You can't just reward the people that refuse to segregate them by saying, oh, well, we can't count them.

You can drift towards either electors making the decision or a revote. So, again, this is equitable stuff in court. There's a lot of remedies that are possible. But it all starts with sufficient proof and speed. It's got to move quickly.

CAVUTO:  Yes. All right, we will watch it closely.

Jim Trusty, thank you very, very much.

Jim hit the nail on the head. It's got to move with speed.

Thirty-eight days 2- years ago, but there were some stipulations here, with the Democrats complaining about the fact that the Republicans were in a rush to get a vote done. Parties and their positions have reversed.

But one person has not, the guy who was in the middle of that count, and his name was on the ballot. Remember Joe Lieberman?

He's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  Twenty years ago, it was Democrats complaining that Republicans are trying to rush the count. Now it's Democrats saying, wait a minute, why have such a rush for the count?

How the parties have reversed roles -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BOIES, ATTORNEY FOR THE AMERICAN FEDERATION FOR EQUAL RIGHTS:  All we're saying is, let the process continue. Let the votes get counted.

MCCONNELL:  The core principle here is not complicated. In the United States of America, all legal ballots must be counted.

FMR. SEN. BILL NELSON (D-FL):  In order for the greatest degree of confidence of the American people in the outcome of the election, there ought to be the opportunity for recounting as much as possible under the timetable.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL):  The only way the outcome of this election is going to be widely accepted, which is what we need, is through the post- election process in our law.

FMR. SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (I-CT):  vice President Gore and I have had a simple and fundamental goal, to ensure a full, fair and accurate count of the votes in this election.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAVUTO:  All right, remember that guy, Joe Lieberman? He was the vice presidential candidate 20 years ago in the famous Bush-Gore, of course, chad nightmare, as they called it then. It dragged on for the better part of a month.

But I caught up with Joe Lieberman, asked him about the differences this time. He said not really any, outside of just waiting to get the vote in.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) 

LIEBERMAN:  In these last five states to be called, if you will, in a presidential election, the vote was very close.

So, it seems to me he's got a right to ask for a recount. But to -- he raises the expectations on his own lawyers and himself and raises the fury of a lot of other people, including the Biden supporters, if he alleges, as he has, without any proof so far in court, that the election was stolen.

If it was, it's time to bring forth that evidence.

CAVUTO:  Do you think reports that he is not cooperating or sending out orders to his people not to cooperate in a transition, maybe believing there's no need to do that right now because I'm still fighting for every vote?

What do you think of the posture he's taking?

LIEBERMAN:  Yes, look, in the -- my -- I try to think back to 2000.

My recollection is that the GSA, the General Services Administration, which implements, just from a bureaucratic, governmental point of view, the transition, making space available to the incoming president, et cetera, et cetera, Office space, that they did not actually implement the law until Al Gore conceded December 12, December 13, after the appeals were all over, right up to the Supreme Court.

There's no question that it would be a smoother transition and it would be a big thing for President Trump to do to say, I'm not yielding any ground on my claims in court. I think this election was wrongly decided. It needs the courts to act. But I authorize GSA to go ahead and implement that law and let there at least be discussions...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:  But we're a long way -- we're a long way from that.

And then the process still early -- as you indicated, it went over 30 days

20 years ago.

LIEBERMAN:  Yes.

CAVUTO:  But when the count is done, Senator, and I'm wondering -- and it shows maybe the president did pick up more votes than thought in these states in question, but he lost them all...

LIEBERMAN:  Right.

CAVUTO:  ... do you think he would be a gracious loser?

Mick Mulvaney, his former acting chief of staff, said, yes, I think he would be. Do you?

LIEBERMAN:  Yes, I took -- I took heart from Mick Mulvaney's column yesterday.

I certainly hope the -- all of us would understand, at a very human level, why anybody, and particularly this president, would be deeply disappointed not to be reelected. He invested a lot in this. He's very proud.

But there comes a point where you have got to acknowledge that more than personal interest or party interest is the interest of the country. And once he has his days in court, I hope, even if the president disagrees with the courts' decisions, he says, I have tried my best.

Maybe he will say, I'm not leaving politics. Maybe he will say, I'm thinking about running again in 2024, but he will concede and let the transfer power go forward, so that the incoming Biden...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:  Do you think he will run if that -- if it comes to that, Senator, he will run again in 2024? Grover Cleveland tried it. It worked. I remember covering that race.

Now...

LIEBERMAN:  Yes.

CAVUTO:  It's a joke.

But, I mean, I'm just saying that do you think he would do that?

LIEBERMAN:  I think it may -- it may incite him, feel like the right thing to do now.

He's certainly the dominant force in the Republican Party now. Somebody else, not me, said, in 2024, the Republican candidate for president will be Donald Trump or somebody else Donald Trump has endorsed.

But four years is a long time. Look, Al Gore was thought to be ready to run again in 2004. He thought about it a while. And, at the end of 2002, he said that he was not going to run again.

So, that's in the future. For now, I just hope the president has his day in court. And if he doesn't win, which I suspect he won't, then he will put the country first, which he always says he's all about, concede, let the Biden administration come in and begin its work.

And he can go off and do whatever he wants to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAVUTO:  All right. Well, we shall see, won't we?

Joe Lieberman on that, in the middle of an American nightmare that dragged on for the better part of a month 20 years ago.

When we come back:  Excited about that vaccine? What if I told you there could be others, lots of others?

After this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  Excited about that Pfizer/BioNTech, that, well, we could have a vaccine coming from them, and soon, maybe within a matter of weeks, and maybe better than a billion doses made available next year?

But it just won't be those companies here. Pay attention right now with what's happening with the likes of Eli Lilly, that had emergency authorization for its COVID-19 antibody treatment. There is Moderna and a host of others that are rounding the bend with promising cures, treatments, vaccines of their own.

Don't get me started on Johnson & Johnson.

To Ali Mokdad right now, Health Metrics professor, chief strategy officer for population University of Washington.

Think about, Doctor. I mean, there could be a number of remedies available in the next few weeks, months. What do you think?

ALI MOKDAD, INSTITUTE FOR HEALTH METRICS AND EVALUATION:  Very promising.

And it would be a game-changer if we have vaccines starting next year. Of course, we can save a lot of lives and we can go back to our normal life as soon as possible. But we have to be very vigilant right now until we have the vaccine, especially coming into the holiday season.

CAVUTO:  Doctor, what is the rule of thumb for how you distribute it? Who does it go to first? Is there a protocol for this?

MOKDAD:  Yes. That is one that the National Academy of Sciences put forward.

And it is -- always starts with the medical system, medical staff, then people who are older than 65, and those who have a chronic condition, then essential workers, then everybody else in the United States, of course.

CAVUTO:  Do you expect there -- there's always reluctance and people are anxious about vaccines -- that many won't take it who should?

MOKDAD:  That's a big concern.

And the latest data we have from surveys shows that only 44 percent of Americans will take a vaccine when it's available. So, we are concerned. We would like more people to take it, of course. So, yes, that vaccine, when it becomes available, the only way it is protective, if a lot of people will take it and we will reach a herd immunity from the vaccines.

CAVUTO:  All right. We will watch very, very closely.

Dr. Mokdad, good catching up with you on this, all good news, of course, if all of these come to fruition here.

MOKDAD:  Indeed.

CAVUTO:  So, not just one, but maybe several, offers great possibilities.

Thank you, Doctor very, very much.

But when all of those come out, they're coming at a devil of a time here, when so many states are experiencing spikes in cases, New Jersey, New York.

We're seeing a lot of shutdowns again, a lot of limitations again, a lot of restrictions again.

And then there's something that Joe Biden was commenting on today -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  Boy, they put Justice Amy Barrett to work quickly, didn't they?

She was among the justices hearing oral arguments challenging Obamacare today. How did it all go?

Let's go to David Spunt in Washington with more -- David

DAVID SPUNT, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Neil, good afternoon to you.

It appears that the High Court is in favor of keeping the Affordable Care Act intact, this after Supreme Court -- Justice Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Brett Kavanaugh both signaled that they believe that the ACA can stay intact, despite getting rid of that controversial individual mandate.

It's all about severability. Now, this is the third legal challenge in the 10-year history of the law. President Obama signed it into law in March 2010. The question for the court, whether the key funding mechanism for the law, as I mentioned, the individual mandate, can be taken away and if the rest of the ACA can stay intact without that mandate.

The mandate forces someone to buy health insurance. Some say that is a tax.

The chief justice, who upheld the law in 2012, made it clear he believes the act could survive without that mandate. The Trump administration got rid of that penalty in 2017. But they couldn't get rid of the law entirely that year.

Why? Arizona Senator John McCain famously gave the thumbs down on the Senate floor, a very dramatic moment, to get rid of that measure, and he actually helped save it after the administration wanted to get rid of it. A group of conservative states argue that law must fall if that individual mandate falls.

As you mentioned, Justice Amy Coney Barrett, she actively participated today. It's just her second week sitting on the High Court. She had to do things through teleconference because of COVID-19.

And, today, she questioned Texas' solicitor general about the mandate.

Listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

AMY CONEY BARRETT, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE NOMINEE:  Doesn't it really seem that Congress is the one who's injured the individual plaintiffs here? And you can't sue Congress and say, hey, you have put us under this mandate that's forcing us to buy insurance and that's harming us, right?

KYLE HAWKINS, TEXAS SOLICITOR GENERAL:  Well, we have sued the United States. It is the United States' law that the individual plaintiffs have to acquire health insurance that the United States thinks is good for them.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SPUNT:  And just a few hours ago, president-elect Joe Biden in Wilmington, Delaware, held a news conference about why he wants to move forward and keep intact all of Obamacare.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT:  It was created to ensure that families, thrust into their worst nightmare of their lives, could focus not on money, but on the fight that really matters.

Obamacare is a law that every American should be proud of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SPUNT:  And the justices, Neil, will make a decision by June -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  All right, David, thank you very much, my friend, David Spunt outside the Supreme Court.

Well, are you planning on flying anywhere for Thanksgiving? Maybe not, because a lot of people surveyed say, no, they're sticking close to home.

Apparently, the airlines think that you are. And, boy, have they got some deals for you -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, I don't know if it was the vaccine news, but, boy, oh, boy, airline stocks aren't the only thing jumping right now.

They're very optimistic that you're going to be flying, traveling as soon as this Thanksgiving, a couple of weeks away.

Susan Li, what that says about them and the economy.

Hey, Susan.

SUSAN LI, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Hey, Neil.

So, holiday celebrations are likely to be different this year than other years, definitely smaller. But hopes of a vaccine might mean a few more travelers this time around, the most since before the pandemic started.

United adding 1,400 flights, predicting last-minute bookings for Thanksgiving, with half buying their tickets less than a month before departure. And it's not just United. We have JetBlue adding 25 nonstop flights from New York to Florida, Puerto Rico, the Dominican, and Haiti.

Now, travel has been decimated by COVID, but some hope that, with this Pfizer news of a vaccine approval before year's end, that the sector will be staging a comeback, some of the best performing stocks over the past week, recovering 10 to 20 percent, still, though, as you know, Neil trading at half the levels that they were before.

But, hopefully, things will get better from here. And, hopefully, Neil we can see our families pretty soon.

CAVUTO:  All right, thank you, Susan, very, very much.

Things not quite looking the same over at Disneyland in California, layoffs the news there.

Kennedy has more.

What are they talking about, Kennedy?

LISA KENNEDY MONTGOMERY, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK ANCHOR:  They're talking about keeping the whole thing shut down.

It's really sad for people who make their living at the Magic Kingdom. No Doubt had an album in the '90s called "Tragic Kingdom," because they grew up in Anaheim. Fun fact.

But the point is the park and its adjacent sister park, California Adventure, they're great because you can spread out. And if you have a third of the visitors you would normally have, you still have a lot of revenue, people working, people buying trinkets, gear, ears, and turkey legs to snack on as they park-hop between the two, which not only makes people happy and pacifies their children, who have been long bored by digital learning.

It also gives the people who work there a few shekels in their pockets so they can take care of their own damn children. But, of course, being California, it is commie land. So, Disneyland is still shut down.

CAVUTO:  Now, the governor has been arguing that, obviously, with the spikes in cases, they have got to be very, very careful.

But it doesn't apply to everything. So, restaurants and all, some of them are allowed. I just don't understand why Disneyland can't be doing the exact same thing they're doing at Disney World on the other side of the country in Orlando. I mean, it seems to be working out just fine for them.

But just to shut it down, keep it down, not even talk about reopening, it just seems extreme.

MONTGOMERY:  It is extreme.

And it's the case of two different governing philosophies. The governor of Florida likes people and wants them to work. The governor of California wants control over people and of their lives. That's creating a cycle of dependency, inviting millionaires and billionaires to move to places like Texas and Tennessee, which they are doing in droves.

It's bad policy. And people need some joy. They need something to look forward to. A trip to Disneyland with the fam, that would do it. Maybe I'm wrong here, Neil. Maybe you should call the fun police and have me locked up.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:  No, no, Disneyland is cool. And you know that whole area very well.

By the way, I'm sure governors of both states like people here. They argue, in this case in California, I think Governor Newsom was saying, has to do this to address this.

But it is weird, Kennedy, because we're getting these spikes in other cases in the New Jersey/New York area, Connecticut to a lesser degree. They are spiking again. They are revisiting the old thing, close restaurants by

10:00 p.m., no drinking after that point.

MONTGOMERY:  Yes, good luck.

CAVUTO:  I'm just wondering whether they're setting the stage for something more severe. What do you think?

MONTGOMERY:  They are.

And the long-term deficits of these type of protracted shutdowns will be almost impossible to remedy. And the longer you go, the harder it is to get back to what we once knew as normal. And people feel demoralized, because they look at their friends and neighbors in other states, and they realize that there are governors and mayors who trust people to listen to mask mandates, to stay six feet apart from each other, to bathe in Purell, and everything else we know how to do.

And they're having more success doing that. It's just very interesting that a lot of these places where they have a dim view of human nature, they're seeing spikes in cases.

CAVUTO:  You know what's weird about it?

We don't much time. But Germany was doing all the right things, one of the first on the mask thing, one of the first separating people, distances.

They have got the spikes. Japan now all of a sudden has some spikes to worry about. They were doing everything right. France. Italy.

So, sometimes, everything you want to do by the book, you're still looking at spikes.

MONTGOMERY:  You know where they don't have spikes, New Zealand and Sweden, because people there know how to have a good time.

CAVUTO:  Yes.

MONTGOMERY:  Volvos and Kiwis, Neil, it's the new yes.

CAVUTO:  Indeed.

Oh, look at the time Kennedy.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO:  Thank you, my friend.

MONTGOMERY:  Wait. But I have five more things.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO:  I bet you do. Thank you very much, Kennedy. Always great talking to you.

But she is right. Sometimes, we overreact and think about the people where they have done that. It hasn't helped. Weird thing, this virus.

Here comes "THE FIVE."

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