Rep. Max Rose: The president needs to have thicker skin

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Rep. Max Rose: The president needs to have thicker skin

New York Democrat Rep. Max Rose says President Trump was throwing a 'temper tantrum' when he canceled a meeting on infrastructure with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

This is a rush transcript from "Your World," May 22, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF., HOUSE SPEAKER: No one is above the law, including the president of the United States. And we believe that the president of the United States is engaged in a cover-up.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: I just saw that Nancy Pelosi, just before our meeting, made a statement that we believe that the president of the United States is engaged in a cover-up.

I don't do cover-ups.

PELOSI: He just took a pass. And it just makes me wonder why, why he did that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEIL CAVUTO, ANCHOR: He said/she said.

In any event, everything off. The infrastructure talks that were supposed to be on are now off. And that's not the only thing that may be, the debt ceiling, the budget, and a lot of other things now likely off the table.

Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto.

And it happened so quickly. Did the two sides just give up on each other, period? And then where does that leave the rest of us?

We have got you covered with Mike Emanuel on Capitol Hill on the cover-up talk that is now heating up, and John Roberts at the White House, where the president is not backing down.

We begin with Mike -- Mike.

MIKE EMANUEL, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Neil, good afternoon.

This afternoon, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi doubled down, making this allegation against President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PELOSI: The fact is, in plain sight, in the public domain, this president is obstructing justice. And he's engaged in a cover-up. And that could be an impeachable offense.

As they say, the cover-up is frequently worse than the crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EMANUEL: Pelosi didn't provide any evidence of the cover-up, this coming after a House Democratic Caucus meeting this morning where impeachment was a hot topic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER, D-N.J.: We had a caucus meeting this morning with many folks who came out, and we had a discussion about this.

And what I heard from people was, let's actually make sure we can do our jobs, our constitutional responsibility, our oversight. And that means using the courts or whatever means possible. Obviously, we had success earlier this week to get the information we need to do our job.

And I think that's critically important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EMANUEL: A key White House ally here on Capitol Hill says President Trump must figure out a way to get some of his key priorities done, even though the president has every right to be irritated by Democrats using the I- word.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C.: I thought Mueller was the final word. But we all still have to govern the country. We need roads and bridges. And I can understand how the president feels like they're always -- it's never enough.

But I would encourage the president to focus on what's best for the American people and fight back against efforts to undermine him, his administration and his family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EMANUEL: Getting things back on track between this Congress and the White House could be quite a challenge and could take a quite a lot of time -- Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, Mike, thank you very much.

Well, apparently, that meeting that the president had with Democratic leaders lasted just three minutes.

To John Roberts at the White House on how all of that went down.

Hey, John.

JOHN ROBERTS, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the fourth time that Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer and the president have met with each other in the last few months. And it's the third out of four times that things have gone badly.

Remember, first of all, there was the Oval Office meeting before Christmas that the president allowed the cameras to stay at. Then there was the January 9 meeting in the Situation Room, where the president got up and walked out when Nancy Pelosi said she wouldn't give him any money for the wall.

And then, today, the president walked into the Cabinet Room. He did have this planned in advance, though it was hastily planned. I mean, they weren't planning this for days or anything. After Nancy Pelosi said what she said, the president let Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer come over to the White House, sit down in the Cabinet Room, get comfortable.

And then the president walked in from the Oval Office and let them have it with both barrels. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I just wanted to let you know that I walked into the room and I told Senator Schumer, Speaker Pelosi, I want to do infrastructure. I want to do it more than you want to do it. I would be really good at that. That's what I do.

But you know what? You can't do it under these circumstances. So, get these phony investigations over with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: The president is making the argument that you can't do two tracks here. You can't do investigations and you can't do investment in the country. You have got to choose which one of those that you're going to do.

The last time that the president walked out of a meeting, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer came out to the stakeout location here out of the West Wing. Today, they waited until they got back to the Capitol to spin the meeting their way.

Listen to Chuck Schumer here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, D-N.Y., MINORITY LEADER: To watch what happened in the White House would make your jaw drop. We were interested, we are interested in doing infrastructure.

It's clear the president isn't. He is looking for every excuse, whether it was, let's do trade first, or whether it was he's not going to pay for any funding, or whether today that there are investigations going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: Now, it is true that the president recently said that he would like to see Congress ratify the USMCA, the new trade agreement between the United States , Mexico and Canada, before tackling infrastructure.

But that was seen as more of a kind of a hurry up and get USMCA done, and then we will tackle -- tackle infrastructure. Today's meeting, Neil, was supposed to be about finding a way where you could pay for $2 trillion worth of infrastructure development, because the last time that they met on this a couple of weeks ago, it was the one time out of four that things seemed to go well, but clearly they went off the rails today.

Also, some breaking news just in. A judge in New York City has blocked attempts by the president and the president's children, led by Eric Trump, to block Deutsche Bank from releasing financial records of the Trump Organization and individuals who work for the Trump Organization, including the president, including Eric Trump, Donald Trump, and Ivanka Trump, as well as other people associated with the organization.

So it may be the Democrats could gain access to those documents. I'm sure that the Trump Organization will immediately appeal that, in the way they did the decision earlier this week regarding their accounting firm Mazars USA. So we will see.

But at least the lower courts think the Democrats should be able to see the information. So that's two losses in lower courts in a row for the president -- Neil.

CAVUTO: It just piles up, and a good excuse to not get anything done.

Thank you, John Roberts, very much.

Reaction now from Arizona Republican Congressman Andy Biggs, by the way, a member of the House Judiciary Committee.

I know this is just breaking, Congressman, but this federal judge saying he won't block these congressional subpoenas for financial records from the likes of Deutsche Bank and others, what do you think?

REP. ANDY BIGGS, R-ARIZ.: Well, I'm troubled by that, because, to be honest with you, I'm not understanding the legal ramifications for that or the legal rationale for that, quite frankly.

And I think this is indicative of what we're going to continue to see. And it goes back to the lead story with President Trump and the speaker and the minority leader. He's tired of the investigations. They're -- they're hindering everything that he wants to do. And now they're attacking his family, his family organization, their business.

And they have gone after people that are associated with the president. And it's just -- it's -- quite frankly, it's too much.

CAVUTO: Had Nancy Pelosi not said after that meeting with Democrats that he's been covering up, that the president is engaged in a cover-up, do you think that meeting, that infrastructure meeting, would have lasted a little longer than three minutes?

(LAUGHTER)

BIGGS: Most assuredly, I think it would have lasted longer than that, because, in spite of the fact that the Democrats are proceeding with kind of quasi-impeachment investigations here, which her language actually ratcheted it up, because -- and she herself hearkened back to the Nixon impeachment, where they used the cover-up to go after Nixon.

And for her to allege cover-up, it really kind of threw gas on the fire here, especially when you consider you had 19 -- 19 lawyers, 40 agents, 1.5 million documents, 2,800 subpoenas, the whole thing.

I mean, when you start looking at it, you say this has got to be the worst cover-up in history, if it was a cover-up. So, she's trying to lay the groundwork for something bigger.

CAVUTO: Do you think, maybe being in the majority, that she and her people know things that you don't?

BIGGS: Well, I'm not sure that I buy into that, because, having been in the majority the last two years, unlike Speaker Pelosi, I was at most of those interviews and depositions behind closed doors.

I had a lot of classified briefings. I have read Mueller report. I don't think she knows anything more than the phrase cover-up and is trying to incite and mollify, quite frankly, her base and those in her -- in her caucus who want an impeachment hearing.

CAVUTO: What I get from this is, it seems that both sides have weighed the calculus of not working with the other.

The unfortunate thing about that is that it also means that you're not going to make progress on infrastructure, as if that was expected anyway. But it also means that, by summertime, when we're up against the debt ceiling, we could be staring at a government shutdown, the progress of talks that even Mitch McConnell was heralding on dealing with a two-year budget or a better way to handle our government finances.

That's off. I mean, this is scorched earth, isn't it?

BIGGS: Well, it appears to be that way.

But I'm hopeful that, even though there was some pretty heated rhetoric today, I'm hopeful that -- certainly that the budget issues can be resolved before September. It's not going to be resolved in the normal course of things, which is the budget process.

But just to get C.R.s, debt ceiling issues, like you say, I think -- I think we're going to get those done in this body before September, in spite of the rhetoric. But you're right. I believe this has impeded everything from infrastructure to border security to you name it, health care reform issues that we have.

And we have got a lot of issues that we aren't able to get to even within the Judiciary Committee, because we're so focused on this stuff.

CAVUTO: All right. All right, we will see.

Congressman, thank you very much.

In just a bit, we will be talking to a Democratic congressman on this, fair and balanced, to see where this goes.

In the meantime, it's pretty clear that nothing is going to get done right now in Washington, D.C. Maybe that's just par for the course, given election year. But is it even more par for the course now?

Democratic strategist Shavar Jeffries is joining us. We have also got Republican strategist Joseph Pinion III, and, last but not least, The Washington Examiner's Tiana Lowe.

Tiana, end it with you, begin with you then.

I think nothing is going to be done that at all.

TIANA LOWE, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER: I think that it's difficult right now, because Nancy Pelosi is in this bind, where she has a large plurality of her caucus, the most vocal part of her caucus, calling for impeachment, and Trump's almost baiting her into it.

It's this strange game of impeachment chicken, where Trump knows that the Mueller report didn't come up with anything that the country wants him impeached for, if we look at the opinion polling. But if Pelosi does get strong-armed into starting impeachment proceedings, it makes him look like the victim yet again.

Trump doesn't want to be running against Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi going into 2020. He wants to be running against Rashida Tlaib and the most extreme wing of the Democratic Party.

CAVUTO: Well, be careful what you wish for, because it can sometimes just be a protracted hell.

LOWE: Yes.

CAVUTO: Shavar, something happened at that meeting. I don't know what it was. But a different Nancy Pelosi came out. What do you think?

SHAVAR JEFFRIES, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I don't think we have seen a different speaker. I mean, the speaker has been careful throughout this entire process.

In fact, it's not a large plurality of Democrats that have called for impeachment.

CAVUTO: Wait a minute. You say she's been careful, but to say things like Trump engaged in a cover-up, she's never said stuff like that. She said it coming out of that meeting.

JEFFRIES: She's the president, quite clearly, has instructed witnesses not to cooperate with investigations.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: I'm sorry. I wasn't clear.

Do you think, in that meeting, she was given an earful from members who say, we don't know what you're saying, but we have no doubts about this stuff, and she parroted that afterwards?

JEFFRIES: I'm sure, from those members who are very aggressive on impeachment, she'd heard from them. But that's only about 30 members of the caucus.

You have another 200 who may have a broader view or view that there should be more process, more information, that we should get the full, unredacted Mueller report, hear from Mueller at an open public hearing.

So she's been careful throughout this process, but, at the same time, she's wanted to call into account a president who has, frankly, run roughshod in a whole variety of different ways, instructing witnesses not to cooperate.

He was clear. He said, I fired Comey because I didn't want the Russia investigation.

CAVUTO: All right, I just -- I think, when your leadership, whatever your personal points of view -- and, Joe, the -- this is, you don't want to yell fire in a theater.

And I'm wondering if she risks doing that and whether she's genuinely surprised the president reacted the way he did.

JOSEPH PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, no.

I mean, I think, realistically, I mean, first of all, it was infrastructure day. So I think everyone knows you can grab the hardhat and look out, because it's going to get interesting.

CAVUTO: But do you think, had she not said that, he would have gone on with a regular meeting? Because he also mentioned all this impeachment talk as a reason why.

PINION: No.

I think that, realistically, obviously, that was a trigger. And I think that if you look at what happened last night, where you have former Congressman Beto O'Rourke...

CAVUTO: You don't think he just blew up?

PINION: No, I don't think...

CAVUTO: But he blows up, you know.

PINION: I mean, he does blow up.

But I do believe that I think that was a trigger. You have Congressman -- former Congressman Beto O'Rourke last night trying to breathe life into his campaign with new talks of impeachment and doubling down on that.

There is that vocal section of the Democratic Caucus, which is getting louder by the second. But I do think that, again, the American people have said overwhelmingly they do not want to go to impeachment. And it would behoove the Democrats, I think, not to go down that path, looking at Bill Clinton, who was the last person who went through that process.

Actually, what ended up happening? Approval ratings go up to 73 percent coming out the back end of that impeachment.

CAVUTO: You know, Tiana, one thing we have learned from these things is they take their own course. They go their own direction. And maybe Democrats are seizing on the fact that, as good as the economy as is -- we can go back and forth on how good it is -- but the president should be a lot higher in the polls than he is.

And so they might be reasoning that all the other controversies are dragging his numbers down. Even if states he won like Pennsylvania, now he travels by double digits...

LOWE: Yes.

CAVUTO: ... even though that state has record low unemployment. So this economy isn't helping him in those states. So they figure, keep pounding this.

LOWE: Yes. I mean, the majority of the country approves of his economic performance, but his approval ratings still are struggling in the 40s.

CAVUTO: And a Quinnipiac poll doesn't say he's getting the credit for that.

LOWE: Yes.

So, I mean, they are certainly taking a bet Trump is a different kind of president. The situation isn't exactly the same as with Bill Clinton.

But, also, though, in the case of Bill Clinton, we know that he did commit a crime. We know that he actually did obstruct justice.

That was...

CAVUTO: He lied under oath an affair, OK. You're right, but that was then. We don't know what's going to happen now. We're going to keep an eye on this.

We're also keeping an eye at the Corner of Wall and Broad. We talked to a Republican congressman about the reaction this has had out in the markets, so far just sort of shrugging.

A Democratic congressman on that -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: You know, I want you to take a look at what happened on Wall Street today, down 100 points.

But if you think about the possibility we could have a protracted gap between Democrats Republicans, nothing getting done -- now, maybe that's a relief. Wall Street always hates the idea of the government spending more and doing more, as if that will change anytime soon.

But if you're talking about what Nancy Pelosi was talking about, the president in a cover-up and allegations that the financial records are going to prove that he's -- that he's really not a nice guy and that he's really not been shooting straight with the American people, all of that, and the ongoing trade rift with China and Iran and everything else, we could go to war, add it all, you think there would be a lot more selling and nervousness on Wall Street.

And there's not.

To market watcher Frances Newton Stacy on why that might be.

Why is that?

FRANCES NEWTON STACY, OPTIMAL CAPITAL: I think that volatility is suppressed because I think people still expect a deal.

CAVUTO: A China deal?

NEWTON STACY: A China deal, absolutely. Maybe...

CAVUTO: Even though the talk has gotten more bellicose?

NEWTON STACY: Yes. I think people still expect a deal, because I think people think that the U.S. has enough leverage, and Trump will put enough pressure on them that they will cave.

I don't know, to be honest with you, because...

CAVUTO: You have had your doubts all along. Why?

NEWTON STACY: All along, because, just culturally, they have such different goals. They have different definitions of transparency.

They have different definitions of what they're going to publicize. They told the Obama administration they weren't stealing intellectual property. They're not going to change their national laws and do that with their citizens.

CAVUTO: They have a longer time frame, don't they, right?

NEWTON STACY: Yes, they have a longer time frame.

I mean, the whole deal with the fentanyl, right, we're going to have them stop shipping fentanyl, they're thinking with the opium war. We're not, because we're not thinking on that time trajectory. And most people who are watching the markets don't think on that time trajectory.

But they don't have political ideologies. They don't have political things. Xi wants to look good. When he doesn't...

CAVUTO: Xi Jinping, the leader, right.

NEWTON STACY: Yes.

And when he doesn't think something's going to get done, he sends Liu He in there to fail for him. They have these different things about...

CAVUTO: You pronounced his name perfectly.

(CROSSTALK)

NEWTON STACY: Did I?

CAVUTO: I always screw it up.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: One thing I don't understand -- I get all of that, Frances.

The one thing I heard from China today is their Finance Ministry saying that they would provide two years of sort of a tax abatement to all their major software players, no taxes for two years, clearly saying, we're going to protect you in the face of these tariffs from the United States, and we have got your back.

NEWTON STACY: Yes.

CAVUTO: And they have $3.5 trillion to play with to do that. And I think that was the first sign they're digging in.

NEWTON STACY: Totally.

And the other thing is, is they're trying to take a co-dependent relationship and entertain an independent relationship. And one of the things that I don't hear mentioned often on TV is, they're easing, which means their Central Bank is supporting their economy. It's providing liquidity.

They're trying to get their loans up. Now, the loans are still down. But they're supporting that.

CAVUTO: Right.

NEWTON STACY: We're still tightening. We're still taking $15 billion a month off of the balance sheet. And...

CAVUTO: The president has been very critical of that.

NEWTON STACY: Really critical.

CAVUTO: Saying that you should do your own quantitative easing for me, like you did for the last guy.

NEWTON STACY: Right. Totally.

And it actually makes sense, right, because we don't really have the inflation numbers. And it's so funny to hear people talk about rate cuts. They're not going to cut rates.

CAVUTO: So, what do you see happening? Play this market out now. It's just willy-nilly accepting all this, still not that far from highs, within, what, 3, 4 percent, to what?

NEWTON STACY: There's a lot of complacency because nobody wants to be short ahead of a China trade tweet.

Let me say that three times, a China trade tweet.

CAVUTO: Right. So, you think they're waiting. They expect this too shall pass, we will get a deal, there's a lot of back and forth, but it will happen.

NEWTON STACY: I'm worried it's going to be like Brexit.

CAVUTO: Oh, interesting.

NEWTON STACY: And it's just going to be so protracted, because, think again where the Chinese get their leverage. They know Trump is being -- coming up with an election in 2020.

They know this will weigh heavily politically for him.

CAVUTO: So, they're rolling the dice.

NEWTON STACY: They're rolling the dice.

CAVUTO: Very interesting.

NEWTON STACY: I don't see any downplaying.

CAVUTO: All right.

NEWTON STACY: And the thing is, they don't want publicized what he wants to put on Twitter. And that's sort of where the breakdown occurs.

CAVUTO: All right.

Frances, final word on the subject, a very good word at that.

Meanwhile, how is it that Nancy Pelosi jumped to a cover-up? What did she hear in that meeting?

After this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, let's see. We have a constitutional crisis with China. Oh, yes, all eyes on Iran too.

The U.S. Air Force releasing new video of B-52 bombers deployed in the Middle East.

We have got former USS Cole Commander Kirk Lippold with us in the flesh. It's been a while since we were meeting face to face.

How are you?

KIRK LIPPOLD, FORMER COMMANDER, USS COLE: Doing great, Neil. How about yourself?

CAVUTO: I'm a little anxious about what's going on in Iran. They're upping the ante, maybe for perfectly good reason. What about you?

LIPPOLD: I'm not necessarily worried right now.

You have to remember, when you look back, Iran directly contributed to the deaths of at least 600 Americans. So now, when we're sitting there building things up, we're essentially saying, we have a president that is beginning to harden the line in the sand, that says no more.

You have essentially walked in...

CAVUTO: Do you know what hardened it? Are you content with the intelligence we have that was apparently briefed with lawmakers today that constitutes this buildup?

LIPPOLD: I think there was good intelligence. I think what we're doing now is, we're beginning to harden that line a little bit to say, you harm an American, you kill an American, we're going to hold you accountable.

And what you're beginning to see is that Iran, I think, overreacted initially. We put our forces there, which are fairly normal. Obviously, the B-52s are a bit of a step up from the normal group you have there with a carrier strike group, as well as the fighters that we have in the region.

But I think we're beginning to have -- realize that the Iranians no longer going to be able to have free rein in the region. I mean, when you look, they have been influential between Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and we're essentially saying, you cannot continue to cause trouble as the number one state sponsor of terror.

CAVUTO: So, what if -- I understand the deploy of forces and everything else. No manpower yet. Talk of over 100,000 troops that could come.

Do you envision that as the next step?

LIPPOLD: I don't.

I think what you're going to see is, look, we have a variety of war plans that are on the shelf, that call for various amounts of forces to be introduced in the region, to handle different types of crises that may arrive. The fact that they came up with this number of 100,000 or 120,000 troops to be, that was just O-plan, or one operational plan, that was pulled off the shelf.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: What would trigger a move like that? Obviously, an escalation in hostilities, right?

LIPPOLD: I think you would.

I think you would have to see the Iranians really targeting and attacking U.S. forces.

CAVUTO: Just U.S. forces? So, if they go after Saudi tankers or refineries or United Arab Emirates ships, that alone wouldn't do it?

LIPPOLD: I think we'd have to take a look. It's going to see, how is the effect going to be on the world markets? How is that going to destabilize the region?

How much is the U.S. invested there?

CAVUTO: So far it hasn't, right? So far it hasn't.

We haven't seen it in oil.

(CROSSTALK)

LIPPOLD: There's been a little bit of a come-down in the oil market, but not as much.

CAVUTO: But not a lot.

LIPPOLD: And I think that the other countries right now, clearly, Saudi Arabia and the UAE have been willing to take hits to their tankers from improvised explosive device, whether they were delivered by drones or otherwise, with normal reaction.

CAVUTO: And you think Iran was behind those?

Because I always wonder about that, Commander. You and I have talked about it. Why would Iran risk it, knowing this armada is coming their way?

LIPPOLD: I think they're trying to send a signal to those in the region: If you're going to mess with us, there will be a price to be paid.

CAVUTO: OK.

LIPPOLD: But I think, overall, with the introduction of our forces there, you're going to see more of a calming and stabilizing influence.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: What about the Chinese? We're told that they are happy to take that oil. They don't want that oil disrupted. And I'm wondering if that could be another agitation for us to deal with in the middle of these ongoing trade talks.

LIPPOLD: I would be very, very careful in engaging the Chinese in any activity that would try and keep that area open.

I think that we should work with our allied partners, especially the Europeans, just as dependent, as well as other countries. I wouldn't want to see the introduction of the Chinese there, simply because why give them the capability to practice an operational capability that we don't want to give them?

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: So when the Iranians talk about the Strait of Hormuz is theirs, it's their waterway -- they are international waterways, as you have reminded me -- but if we just sort of float down through that area, it's going to provoke Iran to doing something, presumably. Then what do we did?

LIPPOLD: I think we have to see.

It's an international waterway, I think what we will do is continue transits through there, if necessary, and somewhat reminiscent of the tanker wars in the late 1980s. The United States made a decision that we're going to put military ships guarding the tankers going in and out of the region, in order to keep the free flow of oil going for world economies.

CAVUTO: But if they seize the ship, let's say. You remember what they did during the Obama years -- and their military guys hold that vessel. They eventually let go. Would that be a provocative act? Obviously, it would be.

LIPPOLD: I think it would be a provocative act.

I don't think that we're going to react. I wouldn't want to speculate as to what we may or may not do, because, clearly, that's going to be a trigger for how both the Joint Chiefs of Staff want to see the operational forces employed and what they recommend to the president and how we do it.

CAVUTO: All right, but you think cooler heads prevail regardless in this?

LIPPOLD: I think they will for right now. I don't think there's a need for everyone to be getting spooled up.

I think that we're sending a signal. The Iranians are also sending their signals internally. But I think everyone is backing away from the precipice at this point, which is a good thing for everybody.

CAVUTO: You hope. Knock on whatever, right?

LIPPOLD: Keeping my fingers crossed.

CAVUTO: Commander, thank you very, very much, Commander Lippold.

In the meantime, Republican Kentucky governor survives to fight another day, surviving a primary challenge. The president of the United States may be a big reason why.

The governor, Matt Bevin, is here. He's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, it is not an easy time being the treasury secretary of the United States today, especially not today, when, before Congress, Steve Mnuchin was getting ripped on everything from the president's tax returns and not providing them to China talks, and not offering hope -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: He survived and advanced. And, in the end, it really wasn't close.

Kentucky Republican Governor Matt Bevin staving off a primary challenge. Now the battle is on for his reelection in the fall and whether that happens or not. The governor is with us right now to preview what will be his case.

We did reach out to his Democratic opponent in the meantime, the attorney general, Andy Beshear. We have yet to hear back. We hope to.

Governor, good to have you on the phone with us. Congratulations.

GOV. MATT BEVIN, R-KY: Thank you so much, Neil. Great to be on with you as well.

CAVUTO: The president, you know, made it very clear you were his guy. He supported you over the weekend, echoed it again yesterday during the voting to say that you were his guy. That had to help, I imagine.

BEVIN: Oh, absolutely.

He is well-loved here in Kentucky, and for good reason. People in Kentucky respect the fact that this president, our president -- and we're proud to call him our president -- is a guy that loves America. He loves America. He loves working-class Americans. He wants to put America first, not at the expense of everyone else, but certainly not with us being second fiddle to anybody.

And that resonates very well here. I'm grateful to have his support. And I'm grateful for his friendship, frankly.

CAVUTO: Now, you won by a 51-40 percent margin, which isn't bad. But it does show that, even among Republicans, when 40 percent would prefer you not get in office again, you have had a lot of fights with many in your own party over pensions, et cetera, even outside your party, with teachers unions and all the rest.

So you have done a lot of things that have invited wrath, even among Republicans. Does that worry you come November?

BEVIN: It doesn't. And I will tell you why.

Any time you have -- there were four people in this primary. Four years ago at this time, I won the closest statewide election in the history of America. I won by less than four-ten-thousands of 1 percent, also a four- way primary. I had less than 33 percent of the vote that time, and managed to win by over 9 percent, winning 106 out of 120 counties in the general election.

And while I'm only the fourth Republican in 100 years or so here in Kentucky, and there has never in the history of Kentucky been a Republican to win a consecutive term, nonetheless, I like our odds. This is going to boil down to job,s the pro-life vs. pro-abortion issue, Donald Trump and his administration vs. a candidate on the other side who was a proud supporter of Hillary and still bemoans the fact that she's not our president.

So clear, clear choice for the people of Kentucky coming up in November.

CAVUTO: You know, I was reading and noticing, Governor, that your state is no different than many, including my state of New Jersey and the state I'm reporting from now in, New York, that has a significant pension crisis.

The math just doesn't favor it surviving at the way rate it's going. You took that on, and took a lot of political heat for that. But, obviously, the ads are being made as we speak, if they haven't been made already, that you're going after teachers and firemen and police and what have you by taking away their pensions.

How do you answer that?

BEVIN: The good thing is this.

I'm running against a guy -- and I hate to say this -- he's a liar, as is his father before him. And that seems a provocative thing to say that, but it's a word that has real meaning and definition.

These things are not true. The irony is his father, who was the governor before me, never fully funded any of those pensions, ever, not one time in eight years. I am the only governor in the lifetime of anyone living in Kentucky that has fully funded these very pensions.

Not only have I not taken anything. I have put billions of dollars into these. I have raised the issue. It has scared certain people. But in the meantime, I'm the only governor in Kentucky history to fully fund these pensions.

CAVUTO: Well, I guess what scares them -- and you have done that -- is the fact that you talk about changing the system the way it is now, which might be fully appropriate, given the math that you're dealing with, and so many other governors deal with, and that is curtailing benefits, or for those who just come on to the system, maybe they contribute more like a 401(k), or you raise the retirement age for older workers and the like, that that, to them, is an upheaval.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Do you describe that your reforms are an upheaval, that you're trying to stick it to them?

BEVIN: Not even.

I mean, here's the reality. If we continue -- what I have said -- and you touched on it with the first of those several things you threw out -- is changes to future employees, people not currently in the system.

The only way to fulfill the promise made to those currently working and those already retired is to no longer make the same promises to future employees, because to do so is to guarantee that the future employees and those past and current will not get what it was that they were promised.

And so why lie to people? We have been lying for a long time in this state to people. The KEA has been lying. Former governors, including Governor Beshear, lied to people and underfunded, took their money, did other things with it.

And I'm the guy coming along with the hard truths. And, sometimes, the hard truth is more painful than the easy lie. But this is where we are. And I will fund these pensions. And we will save this system, because you're right. Ourselves, New Jersey, Illinois, and a whole slew of others have got to deal with this. This is a big problem in America.

It's a big problem at the federal level. This is a $4 trillion to $5 trillion underfunded liability, at a minimum, in the United States.

CAVUTO: Yes, that's probably at a minimum is right.

Governor, thank you very, very much.

BEVIN: Thank you.

CAVUTO: All right.

In the meantime, we told you about that meeting that Nancy Pelosi had, coming out of which she said that the president has been involved in a cover-up. What happened in that meeting to make her come to that conclusion or, some Republicans say, that leap?

Democratic Congressman Max Rose is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would advise you, Secretary, to get personal legal advice, because the cover-up by this administration, it goes beyond just providing the taxes.

REP. ALMA ADAMS, D-N.C.: Do you know what he's hiding? I mean, he doesn't want anybody to see them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're the executive branch. Right?

STEVEN MNUCHIN, TREASURY SECRETARY: That is correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Which executes the laws. You don't make the laws.

MNUCHIN: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. We make the laws.

REP. MAXINE WATERS, D-CALIF.: Did you discuss the memo with the president of the United States?

MNUCHIN: There's no smoking gun here. We did a very thorough legal analysis with the Department of Justice that, again, if this goes to the courts, the courts will decide and determine.

I, for one, think this is an unprecedented issue of turning over any individual's tax return, whether it's a Republican or a Democrat. And I would hope -- we all hope that we get to the right conclusion on what the right law is here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: And all of this was hours before a judge ruled that, yes, turn over those financial records and documents.

Of course, this extended to the president's tax returns, which, in the judge's case, is a little bit different. But, bottom line, not a good day for the treasury secretary of the United States, Steven Mnuchin, caught in the middle of it all.

And doesn't our Hillary Vaughn know it? She's been reporting on this for FOX Business Network and Fox News.

And let's just say it's been dramatic, right, Hillary?

HILLARY VAUGHN, CORRESPONDENT: Pretty dramatic, Neil.

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin finding out today he has something in common with Democrats in Congress. He hasn't seen President Trump's tax returns either. Congresswoman Alma Adams asking Mnuchin, what is the president hiding?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAMS: OK, so you don't know?

MNUCHIN: I don't know anything about his tax returns.

ADAMS: All right. Why haven't you complied with Chairman Neal's requests?

MNUCHIN: Because I think that would be unlawful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUGHN: House Financial Services Chairwoman Maxine Waters also got what she was looking for from this hearing today, Mnuchin under oath saying he has not talked to the president or anyone in the White House about handing over Trump's returns to Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems to be somewhat clear that we do have the ability and the right to have that information.

MNUCHIN: We have been advised, based upon constitutional issues, that it is not legal for us to pursue it. And we are -- this has nothing to do with anything else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUGHN: But Democrats may not even have to go through the IRS to get a sneak peek at some of Trump's tax returns. Fox News confirming the New York State Senate passed a new law that would allow Congress to access the president's state returns.

A progressive advocacy group that worked to get this bill through the New York State Assembly cheering the vote, writing in a statement -- quote -- "In order to circumvent this stonewalling, New York lawmakers are providing a new avenue for the House Ways and Means Committee to obtain these crucial financial documents. As soon as this bill becomes law, all Chairman Neal will have to do is ask."

So that legislation, Neil, is headed to New York Governor Andrew Cuomo's desk. If he signs it, he will be making a lot of Democrats here on the Hill's dreams come true -- Neil.

CAVUTO: All right. Thank you very, very much, Hillary Vaughn.

As Hillary indicated here, the back and forth on this, on the president's tax returns, on whether there's a cover-up and all that, does seem to be a more consistent message we are getting out of Democrats these days, from the very top one in the House to many in between -- right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, New York Democratic Congressman Max Rose was among those in that caucus meeting today with Nancy Pelosi, from which she came out to soon say that the president was involved in a cover-up and had been for a while.

The congressman is good enough to join us right now from Washington.

Thank you, sir.

REP. MAX ROSE, D-N.Y.: Neil, it's good to see you again.

CAVUTO: Same here.

Could you describe what that meeting was like? What was she learning, were you guys learning?

ROSE: Sure.

CAVUTO: What was the temperament of it?

ROSE: Yes.

So, part of the problem with Washington, D.C., and generally Congress is that caucus meetings leak like a sieve.

So why don't we take a step back and talk about this larger issue? Because I think that we are engaged here in this very odd impeachment game of chicken, where nobody is doing -- I think we have to act accordingly. OK?

The president has got to respect Congress. It's very, very important here. Congress has -- is seeking documents, and the president should respect Congress' authority.

At the same hand, though, it's Congress' responsibility to act responsibly. I believe, for the most part, it's been doing that. We can't forget why Republicans lost the House in 2018.

They lost the House because the American people made the determination that Congress wasn't acting in their interest, the bread-and-butter issues.

CAVUTO: All right, so, I'm sorry, sir. I really want to know what happened in the meeting. I assume that was the sentiment that was revealed.

And I'm wondering why it would be that Nancy Pelosi would leave, making the cover-up comment she did. Was there something that was revealed that gave...

ROSE: No.

CAVUTO: ... her the ammunition to say what she did?

ROSE: No. No.

I can't -- I'm not here to speak for Nancy Pelosi. But what I am here to say to, though, is that...

CAVUTO: Do you know where she got that information?

ROSE: No.

Again, though, and we can do this...

CAVUTO: Do you think he covered up anything? I'm just curious.

ROSE: My friend, we could -- Neil, it's like you're auditioning to be on Court TV, OK?

What I am talking about here...

CAVUTO: No, I'm just auditioning for an answer, sir.

ROSE: No, no, no. And I...

CAVUTO: I'm curious, did you hear anything or do you know of anything that makes you think that the president is covering up something?

ROSE: No, here's what I do know for a fact, OK, is that the president is not respecting Congress' authority and position.

But I also didn't come down to Washington, D.C., to do this type of talk, OK? I didn't come here to engage in -- with a partisan pitchfork.

What I did come here to do, though, is to work on infrastructure, to work on health care, to work on anti-corruption. I certainly didn't respect the president having a temper tantrum when he was discussing the infrastructure today. That's the biggest deal.

But there was...

CAVUTO: Would you think differently of going into a discussion, whatever your views of the president, sir, if right beforehand he hears that the speaker of the House is saying he's covering up something?

ROSE: Oh. Come on, Neil.

CAVUTO: As you know, that's an impeachable offense, right? That's a high crime and misdemeanor.

ROSE: Neil, Neil, stop, stop, stop.

The president is a New Yorker, OK? He cannot have such thin skin. I got people out in Staten Island who have two-hour commutes, South Brooklyn, two-hour commutes. The American people need us to get down to business.

The president shouldn't have walked out like that.

But there was a moment of optimism today. I went to and did a speech with Concerned Veterans of America, a Republican organization, talking about repealing the AUMF, repealing and replacing it.

There is so much hope...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: What is the AUMF?

ROSE: The authorization for the use of military force passed in 2001 that has been the principal means how we have legitimized over -- offensive military action over 20 countries.

CAVUTO: All right, you're convinced that cooler heads will prevail and you guys will both get back to talking to each other?

ROSE: Absolutely. Absolutely. OK?

CAVUTO: But you can understand if the president of the United States is hearing that it's a foregone conclusion...

ROSE: No.

CAVUTO: ... that he is covering something up.

ROSE: No, no, no, no, no, no.

CAVUTO: That's impeachment.

ROSE: Neil, the president has two choices.

He can either tell everyone still that he's a New Yorker, or he can have temper tantrums, OK? The guy is a New Yorker. He needs to have thicker skin.

CAVUTO: All right.

ROSE: Let's get back to doing the business of the American people, all right, Neil?

CAVUTO: All right. This was a nice Court TV session. I appreciate that.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Congressman, be well. Thank you, sir.

ROSE: Neil, it's good to see you.

CAVUTO: All right.

The effect of all of this on anything that could get done -- after this with Charlie Gasparino.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, Charlie Gasparino here with his -- some of his thoughts on the conversation I just had with the Democratic Congressman Max Rose.

I just don't see much getting done. I really don't.

CHARLIE GASPARINO, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: I don't understand this guy. He was like, New Yorkers aren't thin-skinned? We're the most thin- skinned people in the world.

CAVUTO: What do you mean by that?

GASPARINO: It's not only that. I'm not here to talk about what happened behind closed -- why do we want you here?

CAVUTO: So do you think that something changed today?

GASPARINO: No.

CAVUTO: Or that cooler heads prevail, they go back to talking about things?

(CROSSTALK)

GASPARINO: I don't think -- I don't think anything's going to get done. You know it. They're at loggerheads about all this.

And one thing you could say and I could say, I don't care how thin-skinned you are. You call someone an SOB on camera, and then you expect to sit down with that -- with that person?

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: It's going to be tough.

GASPARINO: I mean, there's no way Donald or anybody should be sitting -- Donald Trump being the president -- should be sitting down with someone who called him a name. And that's just bad politics.

CAVUTO: But, again, this -- there's been a lot of railing against the financial community too and the president's ties to the financial community and making them happy.

And now they want bank records and all of this, but some of the same candidates who are running all depend on that money.

GASPARINO: All of them. All of them.

They're all -- except for Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. And, weirdly, the last time Bernie Sanders was running, there were two crazy financial advisers that threw him a few bucks.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: But they make up for it -- certainly, Sanders -- in individual donations, right?

GASPARINO: Right. That's right.

But everybody else is going for the Wall Street money because it is good. It gives you seed money to do rallies.

CAVUTO: Why do they give if they're getting...

(CROSSTALK)

GASPARINO: Now, here's the thing. They're not giving as much, from what I understand.

They -- I know for a fact there are hedge fund guys that like Cory Booker on school choice -- he's one of the Democratic candidates that -- will not give to him this time because he's moved so far to the left.

The one guy that will get a lot of this money across the board universally, if he wins, and even before, is Joe Biden. He's the one guy that has not attacked corporate America in the way these other guys are.

CAVUTO: Well, he said they disproportionately benefited from the tax cut.

GASPARINO: That's different than calling them a bunch of SOBs, and we're going to tax the hell out of you and we're going to kill you. And we're going to put stakes through your heart.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Of course, the money crowd was behind Hillary Clinton. Is the money crowd behind him and sticking with him?

GASPARINO: OK, see, the money crowd wasn't behind Obama that much, particularly Goldman Sachs.

CAVUTO: Right.

GASPARINO: That's the bellwether here.

CAVUTO: Until he won Iowa.

GASPARINO: Well. No, in the second term, they bailed out because he went after them on Dodd-Frank.

CAVUTO: OK.

GASPARINO: We will just see -- have to see how this works. I don't think anybody's going to get a lot of money from Wall Street, except for Biden, to be honest with you.

CAVUTO: Really?

GASPARINO: Yes.

CAVUTO: But where did you get that notion that New Yorkers are thin- skinned? What?

(LAUGHTER)

GASPARINO: This guy was crazy, going New Yorkers aren't thin-skinned. We can take -- are you kidding me?

CAVUTO: Well, he just's saying, we can still get stuff done.

I don't think it's going to be that easy.

GASPARINO: Yes, how much stuff gets done in Albany? Does he understand how dysfunctional Albany is, even with Democrats running...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Well, he's working in Washington.

GASPARINO: Yes. He's a Democrat from New York.

CAVUTO: OK. Right.

GASPARINO: By the way, he lives in Staten Island? Have you ever seen what people are like in Staten Island?

CAVUTO: Stop it. Stop it. All right.

(CROSSTALK)

GASPARINO: Some of my best friends are there, and they are incredibly thin-skinned.

CAVUTO: We would talk about -- all right, thank you very, very much.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Well, we give you everything, right, all the emotions and the gait to go with it.

That will do it here. We will continue to look at Wall Street reaction to all of a sudden a stopped government tomorrow.

Here's "The Five" now.

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