This is a rush transcript from "Sunday Morning Futures," May 10, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Welcome, and good Sunday morning everyone.
Happy Mother's Day. Thank you for joining us.
And to our nations heroes, our mothers, we salute you, all of the wonderful women out there who make our lives so much better.
I'm Maria Bartiromo.
Joining me straight ahead right here on "Sunday Morning Futures," coming up: misconduct and politicization at the highest levels of the FBI, the Justice Department dropping its criminal case against three-star General Michael Flynn last week after internal memos uncovering what we have been reporting all along. He was entrapped by his own government.
His personal attorney, Sidney Powell, is here live with the next steps toward justice.
Also ahead: newly released Russia probe interviews validating what two of our guests have maintained for years. There was no collusion, no coordination, and no conspiracy by anyone on the Trump campaign.
Congressman Devin Nunes and Trey Gowdy join me live coming up.
Also, today, the China challenge -- new evidence of the Chinese Communist Party's bad behavior. Senator Tom Cotton, first to blow the whistle on Beijing, coming back with new information this morning.
And the point man on the global supply chain, White House trade adviser Peter Navarro, with us on his prediction on how long it will take for the country to return to normal.
All that and a lot more right here, right now on "Sunday Morning Futures."
New reaction this morning now to the Justice Department's decision to drop its case against former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn last week.
It comes after the release of internal memos that raised questions about the nature of the FBI investigation, that led to Flynn's guilty plea back in 2017, something we have been investigating now for four years.
Joining me right now is Congressman Devin Nunes. He's the ranking member of the House Intel Committee, and he also serves on the House Ways and Means Committee as well. And he was first to come out and tell the truth on all of this.
Congressman, it's good to see you. Thank you so much for joining me this morning.
REP. DEVIN NUNES (R-CA): It's great to be with you. Thanks, Maria.
BARTIROMO: So, I want to get your reaction to General Flynn.
But, first, let's talk about these 53 transcripts that were released this week. What did we learn?
NUNES: Well, we said for a long time that we had no evidence of collusion.
One of the goals that we had going into this -- and you're going to have Trey Gowdy on later in the show. And we had a strategy here that we wanted to get every single person that we interviewed whether or not they knew of any evidence of collusion, coordination, or conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Russians.
Furthermore, what you will see, Maria, is that we even asked questions about hearsay. Did they hear anything? Do they know anything? Do they have any leads for us whatsoever? And the answer was always the same, nothing.
But what you had day after day is, you had coordination with the Democrats and the mainstream media, who were essentially their mouthpieces. They would go out, run out of these hearings and say, oh, my gosh, we just had bombshells today. It was really bad. We interviewed this Trump associate, that Trump associate.
However, the opposite was true. And I think the really enlightening thing that you will see through this is not just that. I think most Americans that watch your show, that are up to speed on this, who have known this was a hoax all along, they get that there's not going to be anything new in these transcripts, other than there will likely be -- you will see -- you will begin to see where some of our criminal referrals are based out of, some of the false testimony that was given to Congress.
But what you will also see is, you will see the deep, dark fantasies of the Democrats in the House. Where are those sick fantasies -- where do they originate from? You will see that they ask people about the pee tape of all things, of all things.
And I know it's Mother's Day, and I don't want to talk like this. But this was the Russian dirt, OK, that came from Fusion GPS and the Clinton campaign. They had these fantasies, whether they -- and we know now that they didn't even get them from Russians. They claimed they were getting them from Russians.
And here, at the same time, you have got the Democrats in the House of Representatives accusing the Trump campaign of coordinating with Russia, when the reality was -- is that they were the ones who were paying for dirt that they thought came from Russians, and then asking about sick things like pee tapes and prostitutes to every one of these witnesses that came in.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NUNES: I think that's the real revelation for the American people, is, they were using their own Russian dirt to ask questions.
And it was all fake, it was all phony the whole time. And the press was in on this too. It's the cover-up. And I think that's the main thing, is now you're starting to see the piece s of the cover-up that I think are actually more important. And that's why we -- that's why what happened this week with General Flynn being exonerated, it's the first part of the cover- up, of the Democrats covering up for using this sick dirt that they paid for.
BARTIROMO: So, you wonder if this is going to be the first domino to fall.
I mean, these House Intel Committee Russia transcripts confirm all that you have just said. You have got James Clapper. Here is a quote: "I never saw any direct empirical evidence that Trump campaign or someone in it was plotting, conspiring with the Russians to meddle in the elections."
This is behind closed doors. We're just getting this evidence now, last week.
Susan Rice: "I don't recall intelligence that I would consider evidence to that effect that I saw, conspiracy, prior to my departure."
Andrew McCabe, when asked about the most damming piece of evidence -- quote -- "We have not been able to prove the accuracy of all the information"
"You don't know if it's true or not?"
"That's correct. I don't know if it's true."
All of these testimonies behind closed doors with Congressman Ratcliffe, Congressman Trey Gowdy, yourself, and all the while, while these transcripts were happening and these meetings were taking place, they would leave the closed-door session, go on TV, and say something completely different.
How many times did we hear former CIA Director Brennan, John Brennan, go on MSNBC and say, President Trump committed treason?
NUNES: Yes.
BARTIROMO: Where is the accountability for all of this, Congressman?
NUNES: Well -- well, look, what you see is, behind closed doors, they weren't as tough as what they were out on the cable news networks, where they were getting paid to pontificate.
In fact, they were quite weak and they were pathetic. And they really cowered down, because that was their opportunity to get on the record, what evidence did they have? And you see, when they're on the chopping block and they can be busted for lying or misleading Congress, they got very, very weak.
However, you do see some discrepancies. There's a lot of discrepancies in this testimony, not with just what they were saying out on the -- out to the American public, but also what they said on the record in different places.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NUNES: And so we now know that the dossier was leaked. You now see -- we have this in our report, by the way, right, the House Republican report that's still the gold standard report.
We had in there that General Flynn didn't lie. We had in there that the DNI was responsible for leaking the dossier to BuzzFeed, for confirming its existence to BuzzFeed. And, at that point, that was a classified -- supposedly a classified document that would have been leaked, and then confirmed that the U.S. government had it.
So there's a lot that needs to be looked at here. But, unfortunately, our report back in May of 2018, when it was released, is really -- not only is it the gold standard report.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NUNES: It's the only report that still upholds to any value at all, because the others are -- either are under investigation or should be under investigation.
BARTIROMO: That's correct. It is the gold standard, absolutely.
Let me ask you about this, because there's news that we still need to break here. And that is the so-called Flynn 302. Now, the 302s is a reference meaning that this is notes that FBI agents took after they met with Flynn.
Explain what you think is in the 302 of Flynn. And why have we not seen the exchanges, the notes that the FBI agents took after their meeting in January 2017, when they ambushed General Flynn? Where is the Flynn 302, Congressman?
(LAUGHTER)
NUNES: Well, the 302 is still missing, Maria.
So here is what we know. This report, when it was taken down, after that report was transcribed, we had people at the highest level, the FBI, come and brief us. Plus, we have other sources that also gave us the same information that the FBI agents essentially said, look, there's nothing to see here, Flynn wasn't lying.
And that's what we were told on the record. So we knew this at the beginning of 2017. So you can imagine my astonishment when it began to leak out in the press that General Flynn was being busted for lying to the FBI, and that that's what the Mueller team, the dirty Mueller team, that's what they were going to bust him on.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NUNES: And I told people at the highest levels of the FBI and the DOJ, I said, what are you doing here? Like, we have, on the record, from the highest-level people that he didn't lie to the FBI. So, you know, I don't care.
If that's what you're using, if you're going to drop the charges on Flynn's son or whatever conspiracy theory they were peddling against General Flynn...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NUNES: ... they had no possible way to bust him or indict him for lying to the FBI, because then that means that the FBI had lied to us, OK?
BARTIROMO: Yes. Let me -- let me...
NUNES: Now, so what happened?
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NUNES: What happened is that that report was doctored, Maria.
And that report, we know it was doctored, because the lovebirds, we have the text messages of them doctoring the report. But here is the problem.
BARTIROMO: That's right.
NUNES: The original report that was used to brief the United States Congress, that report is missing. It's gone. Poof. It's out of -- we can't find it.
BARTIROMO: Unbelievable. And it was doctored. OK.
NUNES: And I would think that's something that we should have, and that's something that General Flynn should have.
BARTIROMO: So, real quick, because this was a very -- several-prong strategy. There was the wiretapping. That was part one of the strategy.
There were the informants who ran into campaign people like George Stephanopoulos -- George Papadopoulos, rather -- pardon me -- and Carter Page. There was the leaking and the lying.
Let me just ask you very quickly. We have got to jump here. Is leaking classified information a felony? Is lying to Congress a felony? Tell me the answer to those things, because those two things we know took place.
NUNES: Well, look, and that's part of what -- you're now seeing referrals that we made.
Now, look, we -- I think the bigger issue is the conspiracy. Who was doing the spying, OK? Let's just call that spying. Who orchestrated all of this well before July 30 of 2016?
That's a key -- that's a key date to remember.
BARTIROMO: That's right.
NUNES: Who continued the spying? Who decided it was OK to run all these people into George Papadopoulos and others?
These are all questions that we have outstanding for John Durham.
The good news is, I think, for this week is, is that the fruits of our investigation that the media covered up and is still covering up to this day...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NUNES: ... they are not getting past the long arm of the law.
And that's what happened this week with the appointment of the prosecutor out of Missouri to come in, take a fresh look at this.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NUNES: And, lo and behold, what did they find? The same thing we found.
It's impossible to indict General Flynn for lying to Congress, or you yourself have been the ones that are lying to Congress, meaning the FBI agents and people that testified to Congress.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
All right, we will leave it there.
We're going to talk with Trey Gowdy coming up. And he is ready to name names of the media that actually encouraged this and drove the bus on all of this.
Congressman Nunes, good to see you this morning. Thank you, sir.
NUNES: Thank you.
BARTIROMO: We will see you soon.
I will be discussing all of this and a lot more with President Trump in an exclusive interview this week on FOX Business. Join me Thursday morning on "Mornings With Maria" on FOX Business 6:00 to 9:00 a.m. Eastern, as I sit down with the president to talk about all of this. Don't miss it.
That is coming up this week on FOX Business.
And don't miss my next guest. Michael Flynn's lead attorney, Sidney Powell, is here live on how the man at the center of all of this is reacting and the next steps in this case, as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
well, General Michael Flynn greeted the news of the DOJ dismissing the charges against him by tweeting the words "Justice for all" with a video of his grandson reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.
But the federal judge overseeing the case still has to sign off on this.
Joining me right now is General Flynn's lead attorney, Sidney Powell.
Sidney, it is great to see you. Congratulations to you. You have worked hard on this.
How are -- let me ask you to start off, how is General Flynn doing? What is his reaction this morning?
SIDNEY POWELL, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL FLYNN: His reaction at first was one of disbelief and relief at the same time.
It's going to take a while to process it. He's obviously very grateful to the attorney general and Mr. Jensen for having the integrity to dig for the truth and to get it out for the American people to see. And he is looking forward to spending time with his family.
I'm sure he will have a statement to make sometime in the near future.
BARTIROMO: Sidney, this is obviously a big step toward justice. And our viewers heard this here first. We knew this was coming.
But Judge Sullivan still has to sign off on this, Sidney. She's -- he's got to sign off on the motion. When are you expecting that to happen?
POWELL: I would expect it to happen tomorrow or sometime early this week.
It's a matter of the prosecutors' actual discretion. Judge Sullivan, according to a couple of Supreme Court decisions, I'm sure he will follow the law there and sign off on it.
BARTIROMO: Now, I know that there were a few things that we learned in these transcripts that were released as well.
And in terms of the way they violated General Flynn's rights, they did not mention the 1001. Tell me about Section 1001 and why that's important, Sidney.
POWELL: Well it's the statute that makes it a federal felony to lie to agents.
These agents specifically schemed and planned with each other how to not tip him off that he was even the person being investigated. In fact, according to Comey's testimony that's attached to the exhibits they filed in the motion to dismiss, they just simply said, we'd like to send a couple agents by to talk to you.
And, of course, General Flynn said sure. And he saw them as allies. They encouraged him to stay that way. They deliberately did not tell him about 1001 because they didn't want to trigger the slightest suspicion in his mind that he was being investigated or should be concerned about anything.
So they kept him relax ed and unguarded deliberately as part of their effort to set him up and frame him. We do have the agents' raw notes, but we don't have the original 302.
BARTIROMO: Right.
POWELL: And we now know from additional text messages produced that there were substantial alterations to the 302s.
We have some of those changes between February 10 and 11, and those are attached as exhibits to one of our briefs that are available on my Web site.
BARTIROMO: So, Sidney, I want you to walk through this timeline for us, because they also violated White House protocol by ambushing him.
And we know that. We have played that sound bite of Jim Comey saying, oh, it was chaotic. I just sent a few agents over there, and just figured it be better to do it that way.
So let's go through the General Flynn, Crossfire Razor timeline. And that begins on August 15, when Peter Strzok, then FBI agent, sent to his girlfriend a text saying -- to the extent, saying, something like, well, I wish I could believe what you said in Andy's office, but we need an insurance policy.
That was discussed in McCabe's office. The following day, on August 16, they opened a Crossfire Razor probe into General Flynn. And then, on August 17, FBI agents were sent to a presidential briefing for nominee Trump.
They did so why? You think they just were trying to assess General Flynn to try to get something on him then as well in that briefing?
POWELL: Oh, that's what one of the agents testified to, to the inspector general. It's in his report that came out in December.
They were specifically -- or he was specifically sent into that briefing to assess and gauge General Flynn's mannerisms, to collect whatever information he could, because General Flynn was there, to notice his reaction to any mention of Russia. And that was done all expressly in case they needed to interview him later, i.e., if Trump was elected and General Flynn was put in the White House.
BARTIROMO: Unbelievable.
POWELL: General Flynn was the...
BARTIROMO: So, fast forward to January. Fast forward to January 2017, Sidney, because, this morning, President Obama is out trashing this exoneration.
He's basically saying that the rule of law is being lost and that there's no precedent for all of this. So, we go to January 2017 and February 2017. The morning of January 4, the FBI drafts a document to close the Flynn probe, Crossfire Razor.
They wanted to close it. They had nothing, so they want to close it. So the next day, on January -- later that afternoon, Peter Strzok texts, don't close the Razor yet. And the seventh floor is involved.
And then there's a meeting in President Obama's Oval Office. Talk to us about that, Sidney, because Sally Yates was there, Jim Comey was there, John Brennan was there, James Clapper was there briefing President Obama in the Oval Office on the Russia probe. Joe Biden and Susan Rice were there as well. This was January 5, 2017. Walk us through it.
POWELL: Exactly.
Well, the day before, Comey had found and McCabe had found the transcripts of Flynn's call with Kislyak. And he briefed Clapper on it immediately. Clapper then immediately went and briefed President Obama on it.
Then they have the Oval Office meeting on the 5th. Comey admits in his testimony that the FBI are the people that unmasked General Flynn, our people, whatever that means. And at the meeting on the 5th, Sally Yates was stunned because Obama mentions to her out of the blue about the call and the transcript of the call.
She knew nothing about it, because Comey hadn't briefed DOJ.
BARTIROMO: Of -- of Kislyak.
POWELL: Yes. Yes.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
POWELL: So, then they dispatch Comey the very next morning to brief President Trump only on the salacious aspects of the dossier on January 6 to set the news hook for BuzzFeed and CNN to run with the dossier they knew was a lie.
Then Peter Strzok is watching a CNN report on that and texts about he and Priestap sitting there watching it and using it as a pretext to go interview some people. So the whole thing was orchestrated and set up within the FBI, Clapper, Brennan, and in the Oval Office meeting that day with President Obama.
(CROSSTALK)
BARTIROMO: So, you think this goes all the way up to the top, to President Obama?
POWELL: Absolutely.
BARTIROMO: Who is going to be charged?
POWELL: I have no idea. That's up to John Durham and Attorney General Barr.
BARTIROMO: OK.
Sidney, we got to -- we got to jump, but it's great to talk with you.
Congratulations, Sidney Powell.
We will be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
House Republicans launching a China task force led by Kevin McCarthy.
He put the task force together to examine the country's role in the initial coronavirus outbreak, among other things. It comes amid backlash at Beijing, as we learn how China hid the extent of the crisis so early on and, while doing so, hoarded the much-needed medical supplies to deal with the pandemic.
Peter Navarro first broke that news on this program weeks ago.
Joining me right now is the White House director of trade policy once again, Peter Navarro.
Peter, it's good to see you this morning. Thanks very much for joining us.
PETER NAVARRO, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF TRADE AND MANUFACTURING POLICY: Good morning, Maria.
BARTIROMO: We are going to get back to the breaking news on General Flynn in a moment, but we want to cover China as well with you.
Give us a status check in terms of where we are today and what we know about the coronavirus and its origin.
NAVARRO: Well, you might get called up to testify, Maria, because you have done the best job really in the media of chronicling this.
We know that patient zero in China was about mid-November. It was in Wuhan. We know that ground zero had the P-4 weapons lab, where the virus likely came from. For the next two months, we know that China hid the virus from the world behind the shield of the World Health Organization.
And, as they did that, they sent gleaning passenger jets from China, not into the rest of China from Wuhan, but to places like New York and Milan, seeding the world with what would become a pandemic.
As they did that, we also know, Maria, from their own customs data that they vacuumed up virtually all of the world's personal protective equipment, including over two billion masks.
And we also know that, today, what China is doing, sitting on that stockpile of what we call PPE, is, they are selling it at profiteering prices to some. And, to other countries, they are actually putting pressure on those countries to deny the virus came from China or to talk about Taiwan or to do other things.
So, that's it in a nutshell. And what that means for us here is, this morning, Americans won't go to church because of the China virus. Sons and daughters of America won't be taking their mothers to brunch. Tomorrow, 33 million Americans won't be going to work, and millions of children in America will be home climbing the walls, instead of learning, reading, writing, and arithmetic.
So, that's the China problem that we face. President Trump built the most powerful and beautiful economy in the world in three years.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NAVARRO: The Chinese Communist Party took it down in 60 days.
Now, here is the good news. What I have seen at the front lines of the supply chains dealing with this crisis is an incredible ability of American industry to be innovative. I have seen General Motors stand up factory in 17 days, and not only that, replicate the supply chain domestically using their engineering, and in combination with the technology company.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NAVARRO: I have seen Honeywell build factories in five weeks.
I have seen the ability of this economy basically to move forward in time. And as we throw what's already $10 trillion almost of stimulus, fiscal and monetary...
BARTIROMO: Wow.
NAVARRO: ... at this -- that's the macro -- the president, Donald J. Trump, understands what's important is the micro level.
He's the jobs president...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NAVARRO: ... the manufacturing president, and the onshoring president.
BARTIROMO: Well, I hope...
NAVARRO: And all three of those things are going to work together to raise wages and productivity.
BARTIROMO: I hope you can move the supply chain, and actually move the needle on the supply chain, because we know that companies want cheap labor.
They have gone to China for lax environmental rules and cheap labor. And, sometimes, the allure of 1.4 billion people have -- has been too much of an enticement for -- get global CEOs to understand the threat that has been very clearly evident now.
Let me ask you this. How long do you think before things normalize again, Peter? Because, this weekend, we have about 30 percent of the GDP opening up, right? We have got 30 states -- up to 30 states, 25 states already beginning the slow process of reopening. That's about a third of the GDP.
We just saw very bad unemployment numbers on Friday, 33 million Americans having filed for unemployment benefits.
How long do you think before we actually get back to normal?
NAVARRO: Well, for your viewers, my background before I got here was in macroeconomics and macroeconomic forecasting.
What we can't do Maria, and what this president won't do, is what Obama and Biden did, which was confuse a structural problem with a cyclical problem, back in 2008, when they were dealing with the financial problem.
The problem there, the structural problem Obama and Biden didn't recognize was how China, with its unfair trade practices, was gutting our manufacturing, basically, and keeping our growth down and our wages down.
And so, in this case, what we have to understand is that, even as we're applying these massive fiscal and monetary stimulus, we also have to recognize that...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NAVARRO: ... over the next couple of years, because of changes in our society and culture that are going to ripple through the economy because of the China virus, we're going to have to adapt.
So we're going to see industries rise. We're going to see some that are going to be challenged by that.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NAVARRO: And this is the jobs president. And that's what he's going to focus on at the micro level as well.
BARTIROMO: Right.
NAVARRO: So, I see, for example, a rebirth of our textile industry for the first time in 30 years...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
NAVARRO: ... because what we're doing now is having that industry build -- make our masks, our gowns and things like that.
We're going to see far more really strong...
BARTIROMO: Yes. Yes. You told us about that a couple weeks ago.
NAVARRO: Yes.
BARTIROMO: What I'm trying to understand is normalization. How many years before we feel normal again, Peter?
NAVARRO: That's a great question.
I think this is going to be a multiyear period as we go through. And I think that's why it's important to have somebody in the White House who actually understands economics and the economy.
This will be an ongoing struggle of complexity, that we are going to have to have somebody in the White House who focuses on the economy.
BARTIROMO: Multiyear.
NAVARRO: It's jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs.
BARTIROMO: OK.
NAVARRO: Yes.
I mean, we're going to -- we're going to -- we -- the recovery has already begun.
BARTIROMO: All right. Yes.
NAVARRO: Ten trillion dollars is flooding in now.
BARTIROMO: Right.
NAVARRO: We are getting back to work. But we're also going to have to tend to these structural issues. And that's what the president is going to be focused on.
BARTIROMO: OK.
And I will speak with the president about that this week on FOX Business on Thursday morning.
Peter, it is good to see you this morning. Thank you so much, Peter Navarro.
We have got Senator Tom Cotton coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
We have new developments this morning on the Chinese lab at the center of the coronavirus pandemic.
A new analysis of cell phone data points to a shutdown at that Wuhan facility for a week last October, two months before the virus reportedly first escaped from the lab.
My next guest was the first U.S. lawmaker to sound the alarm on the Communist Party's handling of the outbreak.
Republican Senator Tom Cotton is with me. He's a member of the Intelligence, Armed Services, and Banking committees.
And, Senator, it is an honor once again to have you on the program. Thanks so much for joining us.
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Thanks, Maria. Thank you.
BARTIROMO: We want to break news, so that our audience understands clearly what has taken place here. This is very important.
There is cell phone data that we have seen now that indicates that there was a shutdown of the Wuhan virology lab, the origin, likely origin of the coronavirus. Explain the cell phone data and why it's important.
COTTON: So, Maria, reports emerged yesterday in the media that publicly available cell phone data suggests that roads around the lab in Wuhan was closed in the middle of October.
Again, this information is publicly available. American media has used it to analyze mobility patterns in states to see if our people are practicing social distancing. So the reports indicate that on major roads around these labs, Wuhan, you obviously had thousands and thousands of cell phones pinging towers day in and day out.
And then, all of a sudden, it stopped. And it remained stopped for several days. That would suggest, without any further information, that those roads were blocked for some reason.
Now, we need to go confirm that. We need to look at the data carefully. We also need to try to use other means to verify if there were, in fact, shutdowns of roads around those labs in the middle of October. The Chinese Communist Party could obviously help us with that, if they would open up and allow us to investigate what happened in Wuhan.
But if it is confirmed that roads around that lab were shut down for a number of days in mid-October, it is highly coincidental that there was a major shutdown of those roads at about the time one might have expected this virus to first get transmitted to humans, whatever the origins may have been.
But this would be another piece of circumstantial evidence that there was some kind of accident or outbreak from those labs, not from the seafood market or anywhere else. That's why it's so important we get to the bottom of this data.
BARTIROMO: So, why would they shut down all activity around the Wuhan lab?
And, also, how weird is it that all activity would be shut down? I mean, analyze it in terms of comparing it to something else in America, so we can understand better. There's always a lot of activity around that lab, right?
COTTON: There is.
So, remember, Wuhan is a city that is larger than New York City. So, obviously, its roads are highly trafficked and heavily congested. So to shutdown roads around the lab would suggest that they had some good reason to disrupt traffic patterns so severely.
So, again, first, we need to verify these reports, the cell phone data say what these media reports indicate, and then we need to use other sources to try to confirm what they suggest, which is, those roads were shut down.
And if that's the case, if roads were shut down around these laboratories for several days in mid-October, then we need to figure out exactly why, because it's simply another piece of circumstantial evidence that would support the idea that this virus originated from one of those labs.
BARTIROMO: Now, Senator, there is a conversation which is being written about in Der Spiegel, the German newspaper, which is also reported in The New York Post today.
The report is published this weekend. It says that Xi Jinping urged the World Health Organization chief to -- quote -- "delay a global warning" about the pandemic and hold back information on human-to-human transmission of the virus.
We know that the WHO, the World Health Organization, came out with a tweet on January 14 and said no human-to-human transmission of this virus, which was absolutely 100 percent wrong.
But now we're getting news that, in fact, Xi Jinping himself talked to the head of the WHO to tell him, don't go public with this.
COTTON: So, Maria, I don't know about all of the specific details about those reports.
But there's no question Xi Jinping and senior officials in the Chinese Communist Party were pressuring the WHO all the way back to December to undersell the risk of this virus.
They knew in China, early on, probably as early as the early days of December, that this virus was both highly contagious among humans and it was very deadly for certain people.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
COTTON: Yet they wanted to save face.
BARTIROMO: But, by the way....
COTTON: They wanted...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
COTTON: They didn't...
BARTIROMO: They wanted to save face, yes.
COTTON: They wanted to make sure -- they wanted to make sure that this -- in addition to saving face, that, once they realized this virus was going to cripple their own economy, that it did not remain limited to China.
So, the WHO has some real answers to provide the world about why they bowed to Chinese pressure throughout December and January and turned what could have been a local health emergency in Wuhan into a global pandemic.
BARTIROMO: Let me switch gears and ask you about your investigation into the Thousand Talents Program.
Tonight, on FOX News, we are running a special which is part of my three- year investigation into China. It will run tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern to discuss China's behavior. And that's why I want to talk about the Thousand Talents Program.
This has nothing to do with the coronavirus, but this is another way that the Chinese Communist Party has been able to spy on Americans and steal intellectual property.
Tell us what you're doing with the Thousand Talents Program, and explain that program.
COTTON: So, Maria, the Thousand Talents Program sounds benign, even beneficial, but, in reality, it's an espionage program.
The Chinese Communist Party is recruiting spies in United States. So, what they do is spun research, oftentimes at our most advanced laboratories or prestigious institutions of higher learning, to get technology, to get cutting-edge trade secrets back to China, and to train Chinese Communist Party-affiliated graduate and post-graduate students.
This just broke out a few months ago at Harvard, where the director, the chairman of the Department of Chemistry was arrested by the FBI and charged with lying about being part of the Thousand Talents Program.
What I think is the real scandal, though, is that participation in this talent program is legal. People who have been arrested for it tend to be arrested for things like lying to federal investigators, or wire fraud, or mail fraud, or what have you.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
COTTON: I'm going to propose legislation that would ban any researcher from accepting Chinese-affiliated funds...
BARTIROMO: That's unbelievable.
COTTON: ... if they are also working on federally funded programs and that would require universities to make their best efforts not to employ anyone who is a part of these talent programs.
BARTIROMO: So, that...
COTTON: We should not be -- we should not be underwriting those people who are on the Chinese Communist Party's payroll to...
BARTIROMO: Of course. Of course.
COTTON: ... to send our most advanced cutting-edge technology back to China.
BARTIROMO: That professor was getting paid from Harvard. He was also getting paid from the CCP.
Real quick, before we go, I have got to get your take. You mentioned this the last time you were with us, that the Chinese Communist Party has sent engineers, research engineers, to some of our leading medical institutions.
Senator Cruz told me last week M.D. Anderson is having a major issue with this, because there are engineers trying to steal information to get China to get a cure for cancer before the United States.
Do you think they are in our medical institutions right now stealing science data to try to beat us to a COVID-19 vaccine? And, also, after they steal the data, are they then going ahead and filing for patents, their own Chinese patents, based on the information they got from America?
COTTON: Yes, Maria, China is using the exact techniques they have used in agriculture and semiconductor or computer chip technology to try to steal our most cutting-edge life science knowledge, to include coronavirus information, whether companies are working on therapeutic drugs or vaccines.
The Department of Homeland Security just issued a warning recently cautioning laboratories and companies and universities to keep their guard up for cyber-theft.
And, of course, like the Thousand Talents Programs, China runs talent programs to use human spies as well to try to steal that technology.
So, all of our institutions in the medical field, in the life sciences and pharmaceutical fields need to have their guard up against Chinese espionage.
BARTIROMO: And, by the way, in terms of the cell phone data that we know was completely stopped for that time in Wuhan in October, do we know if schools were closed, were businesses closed, in and around that area as well?
Can you glean that from the fact that there's no cell phone activity as well, Senator?
COTTON: From the media reports, I don't think you can, Maria.
But those are the kind of questions that you would want to ask to try to understand what was happening around those labs.
BARTIROMO: OK. I see. OK.
COTTON: It's a very good point that, if you had schools closed or other businesses closed, that would again be an indicator of something happening, that the Chinese Communist Party wanted to kind of shut off activity around those labs.
BARTIROMO: Senator, thank you.
COTTON: Thank you.
BARTIROMO: Thank you, Senator Tom Cotton.
We will be right back with Trey Gowdy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
The Justice Department moving to dismiss the criminal case against former National Security Adviser General Flynn.
But the judge presiding over Flynn's case for more than two years still has the final say. Could he refuse to let it go?
Sidney Powell, Flynn's attorney, joined me earlier saying that she's expecting him to sign off on this tomorrow.
Trey Gowdy, former Congressman and FOX News contributor, has a new podcast out. And it is wildly successful. And it is a podcast on FOX News radio that you can download at FOXNewspodcast.com.
And he joins me right now to talk more about this case.
And I want to talk with you about this, Trey, because you were one of the key Congressman at the time to really zero in on what took place here in your behind-closed-doors testimonies.
Your reaction to all that has taken place as, this weekend, former President Obama is saying that this is a break in the rule of law? He is throwing cold water on his exoneration, sir. TREY GOWDY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I find that an amazing statement for President Obama.
Where is his respect for the rule of law for the crime that Michael Flynn was the victim of? Remember, he was unmasked by somebody in Obama's administration, and then it was leaked, which is a 10-year felony, Maria. That is a 10-year felony to disseminate classified information.
Michael Flynn was a victim of that crime. President Obama himself pardoned people for making false statements to the government. He picked Michael Horowitz. That was an Obama pick. Michael Horowitz found fault after fault after fault with the FISA program and Jim Comey program and Andy McCabe.
So, I am delighted to hear President Obama's newfound interest and respect for the rule of law. I just wish he would apply it equally to Republicans and Democrats.
BARTIROMO: Well, there's also the abuse around the FISA situation, right?
We already know from the DOJ that two out of the four wiretap warrants were unlawful. I'm going to stick my neck out and say all four were.
GOWDY: Yes, I mean, two of the four were completely unpredicated, keeping in mind there's a really low threshold to have that predication. They couldn't even meet that.
So, back to President Trump. Your FBI director -- the FBI used a dossier that was bought and paid for by your political party without vetting a single factual allegation in that dossier. You put it in front of a federal judge. Where is your concern for respect for the rule of law as it relates to Carter Page and what happened to him?
BARTIROMO: Terrible.
GOWDY: Michael Flynn.
Let me say this about the judge. The judge can sit there and not know whether or not he's going to grant that motion to dismiss. Good luck prosecuting the case, Judge. You got to have a prosecutor to prosecute the case.
BARTIROMO: Got it.
GOWDY: So, if the DOJ is not moving forward on Michael Flynn, I don't think the judge is going to do it himself.
BARTIROMO: Sidney Powell just said this whole coup to take down Donald Trump went all the way up to President Obama.
I want to take a break. I want to get your reaction to that.
We're with former Congressman Trey Gowdy this morning.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
We are back with former Congressman Trey Gowdy.
And, Trey, I know that you have a list of names in the media who helped peddle this narrative of Trump-Russia collusion and helped Adam Schiff move along.
I want to ask you that coming up.
But, first, you just said that leaking classified documents is a 10-year felony. Who should be charged, Trey? Let's start there.
GOWDY: Well, let's start with asking the FBI, how is your leak investigation going?
I mean, it's been three years. You spent a lot of time and effort on Michael Flynn. How is your leaking of classified information investigation going? I mean, I haven't heard a word about it since Michael Flynn was victimized on the front page of The Washington Post, not a word.
BARTIROMO: So, we know Jim Comey leaked.
He leaked to his friend the professor he wanted a special counsel. We know that Peter Strzok leaked. Are these people facing 10-year felonies?
GOWDY: Well, I think Comey has been cleared, which is also what I find ironic.
The New York Times wrote this scathing editorial about Bill Barr. That's the same Bill Barr that said we're not going to change -- charge James Comey and Andy McCabe.
And Peter Strzok has not been charged with a crime. So, you can't hate Bill Barr when he does the right thing for Michael Flynn and then not comment when he does that for Comey, McCabe, and Strzok.
It's the same Bill Barr. You know, you can't just pick and choose when you respect him.
BARTIROMO: We will see when John Durham comes out with his report.
Does this go all the way up to President Obama, in your view? That's what Sidney Powell just told us two minutes ago.
GOWDY: You know, Maria, I'm going to defer to her.
For sure, he knew about it. But I would caution Republicans. You have got Comey, Brennan, Clapper, McCabe, Peter Strzok. If that's not enough for the executive branch to be embarrassed -- I mean, it doesn't have to go all the way up to the president.
Those are some pretty senior-level folks that we trusted.
BARTIROMO: That's up there, yes.
GOWDY: Yes, ma'am.
BARTIROMO: That's up there.
The former head of the CIA, John Brennan.
All right, real quick, you talk about the media having culpability as well. Name some names of those reporters out there, those media institutions that helped Adam Schiff peddle this in-plain-sight collusion nonsense that he said for three years.
GOWDY: Well, I hope you have a three-hour show.
I mean, let's just start with Politico and anyone not named Rachael Bade. She was the only reporter that I dealt with that was fair. Kyle Cheney is just an acolyte for Adam Schiff.
BARTIROMO: OK.
GOWDY: Manu Raju from CNN.
Nothing Schiff wanted out made public, no leak was too low for Manu Raju and CNN.
BARTIROMO: Unbelievable.
GOWDY: Fill in the blanks at The New York Times.
BARTIROMO: All right, we will leave it there.
Trey, it is good to see you this morning.
GOWDY: Yes.
BARTIROMO: We need more time with you, always.
Trey Gowdy, thank you.
Join me tonight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern, for my special on China.
I will see you tomorrow on FOX Business.
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