Media split on Trump acquittal

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Media split on Trump acquittal

Impeachment finale doesn't end debate.

This is a rush transcript from "Media Buzz," February 9, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST: On the Buzz Meter this Sunday, in a media frenzy that ricocheted from the Iowa debacle to the state of the union to the Senate trial, President Trump was finally found not guilty on the two charges of impeachment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: But this is what the end result is.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS: The most predictable thing that's happened, the headline you could have written with total confidence months ago, President Trump acquitted by U.S. Senate.

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC: President Donald Trump was acquitted of two impeachment charges, abuse of power and obstruction of Congress by a group of Republicans senators who were able to excuse Trump's crimes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: How much of the media focused on Mitt Romney, whose vote to convict was hailed by liberal commentators and denounced by those on the right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIN BURNETT, CNN: Senator Mitt Romney taking a courageous stand, voting to convict President Trump.

JOHN AVLON, CNN: We don't see things like that that much anymore. That was a classic profound encouraged speech.

LOU DOBBS, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK: Romney is going to be associated with Judas, Brutus, Benedict Arnold forever when he is not even a footnote in a footnote, otherwise, because of his betrayal.

LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, MSNBC: I jumped out of my chair, and for the first time in my life I cheered Romney.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS: Mitt, you made your stand. Now, you should resign. You committed a fraud in the people of Utah, on the Republican Party. If I have to move there to run against him in four and a half years, I will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Why one senator out of 100 became the media story. Some pundits pounced on Nancy Pelosi for tearing up Trump's speech to Congress, while others slam the president for denouncing her and the Democrats as horrible and corrupt people, the press actually loving this non-stop warfare. The Iowa fiasco not only hurt Pete Buttigieg and Bernie Sanders as they vie to claim victory, the chaotic caucuses left hoards of media people with no numbers, no results, and not much to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC: Well, we thought we had prepared for every contingency. This is the one we didn't prepare for actually. So we're trying to piece it together with all of you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Plus, Rush Limbaugh is battling lung cancer, how the conservative icon changed the face of radio and the bitter media divide over his presidential medal of freedom. I'm Howard Kurtz and this is MEDIA BUZZ. This is a Fox News alert. We are covering a developing story out of the Bronx in New York, where two police officers have been shot in less than 24 hours.

We're now learning that a man suspected in at least one of the shootings is in custody. The first attack occurring last night when an offer and a policeman was shot at after a man approached asking for directions. The second incident happening early this morning when a gunman shot an officer in the arm, inside the 41st precinct station.

Both officers are recovering. We will bring you updates throughout the day. The morning after the Senate acquitted Donald Trump, 52 to 48 on the first article, the president had brief and revealing moment at the National Prayer Breakfast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When they impeach you for nothing, then you're supposed to like them. It's not easy, folks. I do my best.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: President scoffed at the notion that Nancy Pelosi who was sitting close by prays for him. And she soon responded with reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY PELOSI, HOUSE SPEAKER: I don't know if the president understands about prayer or people who do pray. But we do pray. I pray hard for him because he's so off the track of our Constitution, our values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: And then came the victory lap at the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It was evil. It was corrupt. It was dirty cops. It was leakers and liars. Nancy Pelosi is a horrible person. She may pray but she prays for the opposite. But I doubt she prays at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Joining us now to analyze the coverage, Mollie Hemingway, senior editor at the Federalist and a Fox News contributor, Melanie Zanona who covers Congress for Politico, and Ray Suarez, a PBS News Hour correspondent and co-host of KQED's World Affairs. Mollie, you saw that graphic on MSNBC, guilty but acquitted. Are many in the media or at least some in the media buying into the notion the President Trump's acquittal didn't really count because it wasn't a fair trial?

MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: It was a very difficult time for the media. They had pushed this impeachment. It sort of bullied Nancy Pelosi into doing it against her stated preferences and against her instinct. And it kind of ended up -- it ended turning out pretty poorly for them. Not only was he acquitted despite what that Chiron (ph) said guilty but acquitted.

That's not how that works, MSNBC. But it also was a time when President Trump saw his approval ratings go way up, highest that they've been throughout his presidency. The Republican Party's ratings in general went up as the Democrats went down. So it went poorly for them. And I think they were trying to pretend it hadn't gone as poorly as it did.

MELANIE ZANONA, POLITICO CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: And you know the one thing the media did agree on is that this is Trump's best week ever perhaps between his soaring approval ratings in the Gallup poll, the fact that he was acquitted, he got rave reviews from his own party for the state of the union, a really strong job's report on Friday. And so that is one area where everyone is in agreement.

KURTZ: But do you think everyone is in agreement or just some? Because yes, there is a Washington Post headline today that says about the Democrats' alarm bells over Trump's resilience. But that's not the dominant thing that I'm seeing on some of the other channels.

ZANONA: Well, Democrats, at least privately on Capitol Hill are saying this was one of Trump's best weeks ever. They're ready to move on to --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: -- but do you think that's the media consensus publicly?

ZANONA: Yeah, I absolutely do. I know at least at Politico, I write a morning news letter, and I have weekly winners and losers. And I certainly put Trump at the top of the list for winners.

KURTZ: All right. It is hard, Ray, for the press to move on when the day after impeachment the president is denouncing Democrats and Pelosi as vicious and horrible people, dirty cops and all that. And Pelosi gives it right back to him. But I'm wondering could it be in the media's interest to keep investigating Ukraine, to keep talking about the aftermath of impeachment, because it remains a juicy story and the ratings are good?

RAY SUAREZ, WORLD AFFAIRS KQED CO-HOST: They are saying deployment and manpower, question. News rooms are smaller than they were 20 years ago, even though there's so much more to talk about and so much more to cover. Can you really devote two people on your this staff to bird-dogging this continually now that the passing parade seems to have moved on?

I think it's an open question in many places that are smaller than they were when the need is even greater, especially in the middle of a campaign, especially in the middle of primary season, especially in the middle of other stories.

KURTZ: We are all being stretched pretty thin. As I mentioned, Mitt Romney voting to go convict and remove President Trump, the only -- the first senator in history to do that against president of his own party in an impeachment trial. Let's take a look at what the Utah senator had to say on the floor and with Chris Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): My faith is at the heart of who I am. I take an oath before god as enormously consequential.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You realize this is war. Donald Trump will never forgive you for this.

ROMNEY: But on the other side, there is do you do what you know is right. Do you know what your conscience and your heart tells you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Many journalists, not just liberal opinion people who are praising Romney as a senior statesman act of conscience and all that. Some of the same people in 2012 when he was the GOP nominee portrayed him as a greedy, heartless businessman, and soulless flip-flopper, and just plain weird.

HEMINGWAY: Oh, in fact, the media treatment of Mitt Romney explains so much about our current moment. Republican voters saw that you could nominate someone literally like Mitt Romney and still have him portrayed in the media as if you were Hitler.

KURTZ: And Ray, there's a flipside to this, and we saw that in the open. Many media conservatives who did back Romney in 2012, some of them reluctantly, now saying he should resign. He should be kicked out of the Republican Party. He should be tarred and feathered because he determined in his judgment as a senator that Trump had abused power.

SUAREZ: I guess you don't even really have to call a vote and call the role then. You just check how many Republicans are in the Senate and how many Democrats and post that as the score. If more people had voted out of party affiliation, he would have been less of a story. But being the sole decentre concentrated a lot more attention on him than he would have gotten otherwise.

ZANONA: Yeah, and -- you know a lot more attention on Mitt Romney than there was on the House Democrats who defected on the House side, which I thought was interesting. But, you know, from my perspective on Capitol Hill, Romney's defection was much more surprised than some of the House Democrats, especially in Senate trial.

There weren't a lot of twists. We knew the outcome. Those of us who were up there everyday really never thought the witness was going to prevail. So when Romney did come out in support of one of these charges --

KURTZ: Everything else was predictable except for this one --

(CROSSTALK)

HEMINGWAY: Yes, he was lauded by the way as a profile in courage. Good hint is that if the media appraising you, it's not so courageous. But they didn't do a good job of explaining why conservative voters didn't like what Mitt Romney did. They portrayed as if he were just betraying Trump. There were many reasons why they didn't like it.

They thought the merits of the impeachment case were weak and that that showed that he had bad judgment. The way that he rolled out the media thing showed that he cared very much about being portrayed well by the media. His long history of animus toward Trump made it difficult to hear his argument that he was doing this in good faith. And then most importantly, he hurt Republicans and helped Democrats with his vote.

(CROSSTALK)

SUAREZ: Interesting moment there when you -- in 25 years, last generation in Washington, if you give faith as part of an explanation for why you did something. It's usually hands off. People are very conscious about calling that into question. We are now in an era where if you use that as the explanation, you can still be doubted, smeared, and called a hypocrite by members of your own party, fascinating moment.

HEMINGWAY: It's actually important that people do talk about faith and that the media understand how to talk about faith. The issue there being a lot of people were motivate by their faith and hearing that argument, you know, only hearing it from one person that their faith motivated them when many people had that argument is also not a great media coverage.

KURTZ: Romney did give his first interview to Fox News. He wasn't just playing to the liberal media. But I've got another one for you and then we'll take it around the table. Let's look at -- this is the day after when the president praising, as we mentioned earlier at the White House, was praising his allies and ripping into his detractors.

And we look at that CNN -- that on screen battered Trump, vindictive and impeachment acquittal celebration. There's another version that said Trump vindictive and vulgar. He did use the word bold before word. And then John Harwood who has just been hired as a CNN White House correspondent, hired from CNBC had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was dark because he's made clear that his mind is dark. This is somebody in deep psychological distress right now, self- pitying, insecure, angry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: So Harwood, a reporter, says the president is in deep psychological distress. Is this a new approach to journalism?

HEMINGWAY: Harwood is described as a reporter. He's clearly a pundit and has been for many years. But I think the issue here, again, is that we have an issue on which for many, many years, the president was falsely accused of being a traitor who colluded with Russia to steal the 2016 election. The media pushed that narrative. They won awards for pushing the narrative.

They were completely exposed as not being good reporters, not being good analysts of the situation. They are embarrassed. And they're not in a position right now to be able to accurately describe what is going on. People can hear the speech themselves and say that doesn't seem vindictive. They can have a better context.

The media seem unable to because they're implicated in this false story that led to this acquittal.

KURTZ: You can certainly say critics are describing it as vindictive. Opinion people can say it is vindictive, vulgar, whatever word you want to use as news headline. This was news coverage. Do you think, Melanie, that journalists should be more cautious? I've asked this question on the program a number of times in describing the president's state of mind.

He's angry. He's unhinged and all those negative attributes as prescribed by the arm's chair psychologists of the media.

ZANONA: Yeah, we absolutely have to be more vigilant about how we approach that issue. Look, I don't know if Harwood whether he was that assessment based on his conversation with sources or if this was his own feelings and analysis.

KURTZ: It did attribute to anybody else.

ZANONA: Right. So, you know, I can't speak to that. But what I will say is that the president has an unorthodox way of communicating even four years into the presidency almost, and he's eliciting a very strong response from the media. That was also in relation to his victory speech, which the president said not a speech, not a victory speech. There's nothing. And I don't know if all the reporters knew how to cover it.

KURTZ: Ray, the president, we showed it at the top, loved that Washington Post headline on acquittal. He said it was the best headline he ever gotten in paper. He usually calls it the Amazon Washington Post. But if you turn to the Post editorial page of the New York Times and many others, it's clear that the elite media opinion here is that he should have been convicted and Republicans were cowards for not standing up to the president?

SUAREZ: Well, several Republicans also conceded that he did what he was accused of, and they just didn't find that it rose to the level --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: -- was harsh, but go ahead.

SUAREZ: They, concluded no. We don't remove for this kind of thing. But boy, I wish he hadn't have done it. Yes, the editorial pages, the unsigned opinion pieces under the masthead wanted the president to go in many case. There were a lot of papers that didn't.

KURTZ: Many of the big national papers, obviously as we just said, wanted him to go as you just said. When we come back, the Iowa caucus chaos damaged the Democrats but was it also embarrassment for journalists. And later, tearing up the state of the union, even some liberal pundits are saying Nancy Pelosi went too far.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: It's just mind-boggling, three long days after the caucuses. Iowa Democrats finally managed to give media some sort of final results, showing Pete Buttigieg with a minuscule lead over Bernie Sanders in a delegate count, though the party reviewing inconsistencies in dozens of precincts.

And Melanie Zanona, no numbers on election night, partial numbers next day. How do reporters cover a story like this, and how do you not conclude that it's not a fiasco?

ZANONA: It was really difficult in those hours after the results didn't come in. What do you talk about when there's no results to go off of? But what I will say is I think Pete Buttigieg did a good job of winning the spin game. He just went ahead and declared victory. And the media sort of ran with it because they didn't have a whole lot to go out with that.

KURTZ: Right. He took some flak from that. But he did kind of ceased the moment. Molly, you were in Iowa. If Buttigieg had been declared the winner, even by a hair that Monday night as in a normal process, wouldn't there have been explosion of positive media stories about him, and then wasn't he kind of robbed?

HEMINGWAY: The main point of the Iowa caucuses, media coverage it gives you heading out of it. The next morning, the newspapers all declared a winner. You're on the next morning shows. And it gives you that momentum heading into New Hampshire. But also remember that before the caucuses we were told there were four different measures of how you declare to be a winner.

The first vote, the second vote, this arcane state delegate issue, and then just a number of delegates, and Bernie Sanders won two of those metrics. He tied in the third. And only in the fourth one, this live very confusing issue with delegates is he narrowly behind. So I think in a way he didn't get his due in the way media were covering. And that was kind of obvious throughout the process.

KURTZ: I agree with you on both of those. And Pete Buttigieg and Bernie Sanders both on Fox News Sunday today, Buttigieg has been willing to go on Fox a lot. Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren who are now trailing in both races, not so much, Bernie Sanders bounced back from a heart attack just a few months ago. So it is a remarkable victory for him.

As Mollie said, he got robbed with the media spot slight as well. Because by the next day, everybody is doing the state of the union, like the news cycle marches on, you can never get that back.

SUAREZ: Well, ask President Rick Santorum how missing the Iowa bounced may end up having big effects down the road.

(CROSSTALK)

SUAREZ: -- and it was only weeks later that he was declared the winner in Iowa. And he really could have used that early boost heading into New Hampshire. It's a rough thing. And I think Pete must have had some sort of inkling that he was doing well, because the humiliation of declaring victory, flying to New Hampshire and finishing in third would have been just un-survivable, I think.

KURTZ: Right. Well, of course, they won't get reports from the different precincts. But, you know, even when everything works well in the Iowa caucuses, it's sort of way too complicated, and there's too many conflicting interpretations. So let's just go to go around. My diagnosis for the caucuses, death by suicide.

I don't think there's going to be another Iowa caucus. I certainly don't think it's going to be first in the nation for the Democrats given how badly this embarrassed the party, Mollie.

HEMINGWAY: It's going to be rough, particularly for Democrats. They didn't like having to be first in Iowa in any case. They didn't think it was a very representative for their caucus. So this just adds fuel to the fire.

ZANONA: Yeah. I absolutely agree. I think it's a sensitive issue for Democrats. If anything, there'll be a calendar change where maybe multiple states that go first, not just Iowa.

KURTZ: And Ray, again, you know, when things work well, it's still -- and the people of Iowa I love and they take this very seriously. But it is still a predominantly white, largely rural unrepresentative state.

SUAREZ: There are more people in Brooklyn and Queens than there are in Iowa. And, you know, I'm not sure what the argument for Iowa going first is any longer, especially not with the process like this.

KURTZ: Are you saying Brooklyn and Queens should go first?

(CROSSTALK)

SUAREZ: I'm down with that. I think you and I could both go around to Sheepshead Bay, put our campaign headquarters there.

KURTZ: All right. Well, there's a revolutionary suggestion, Ray Suarez, Melanie Zanona, thank you for joining us the first time. Mollie Hemingway, thanks to all of you. Ahead, Frank Luntz weighs in on impeachment, Iowa, and the battle to shake public opinion. But up next, a behind the scenes look at all those journalists news struggling to deal with the colossal Iowa mess and those who screwed up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Among the biggest losers in the Iowa debacle are the media organizations that spent so much money and sent so many people to cover this contest over the last year, only to be grappling with the complete absence of news.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No results at all from the Iowa caucuses, a huge, huge embarrassment for the Iowa Democratic Party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of ramifications if this group out here doesn't get their act together.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I also feel like I created false expectations, because the way these things go every four years, you do usually get results right away. And so it is a little bit weird.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: There were no numbers and plenty of hours to fill. And that continues for much of the next day. It also led to the spreading of rumors as in this report from CNN's John King.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- messages from eight -- two other campaigns who said they are hearing that the Biden campaign is going to file an injunction. And so we don't know that that's true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Well, the Biden campaign made clear it wasn't true. And King later tweeted in the breaking news rush. My discussing even skeptically incoming from rival campaigns was, in a word, stupid. When Iowa Democrats finally released partial results late Tuesday, it was hard to instantly process the flurry of numbers, even for such savvy analysts, as MSNBC's Steve Kornacki.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Buttigieg there in Dubuque. What's that? OK, they're telling me it says 100 percent. That actually dis -- do we know how much it is? OK, 100 percent is not in. Let me just go back to the -- to this right here. Yeah, OK. I'm going to ask if you can give me three minutes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: You have got to feel for him. We all tried to get a handle on it, but we're foiled by the sheer incompetence by the Iowa Democratic Party. Ahead, Rush Limbaugh battling advanced lung cancer and getting a high honor at the state of the union. But first, the coverage of the president and House speaker, escalating their verbal warfare even after impeachment ends. Frank Luntz is on deck.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: It's been a tumultuous week for the media. We're all suffering from vertigo. Joining us now from Los Angeles is Frank Luntz, the veteran pollster who has worked for many Republican clients. And Frank, let's start with impeachment, Gallup has President Trump at 49 percent approval, highest of his presidency, and about 10 points higher than when impeachment started.

After endless hours of the coverage of the testimony and the focus on Ukraine and endless newspaper stories and segments and web pieces, how is that possible?

FRANK LUNTZ, LUNTZ GLOBAL FOUNDER: Well, it's possible because the American people are fed up with this. And there's a lesson here for all those watching in Washington, D.C. This -- the trial was a circus. There was no sense of planning. There was no sense of accountability. There was no sense of what the American people deserve, which is a straight-forward, not a partisan approach.

And, Howie, I look at this. And it may have been a tough week for the media, but I think it's a worse week for the American people. And that's what I care about as a pollster. All they are seeing now is a horribly broken Washington, politicians that treat each other with disrespect. And it's out of control.

And at some point, you reach a breaking point. And I think if we have more events like what happened this week, you may have a fundamental slide, a destruction of faith in democracy. Everybody is responsible. Everybody is doing it. And it has got to stop.

KURTZ: Well, I would just say that obviously, the public was divided two 50 percent, in most polls say removal, impeachment along with conviction. But, you know, there was a lot of evidence, the Bolton manuscript, the diplomats who testified.

Nonetheless, I'm wondering whether or not people not only got sick of endless coverage, but simply don't trust the press on this whole subject or anything really having to do with the coverage of this President?

LUNTZ: They don't. And they -- and they have every right not to because everyone has got a horse that they're backing. I don't find the reporting - - I listen to the language, I read the headlines, I read everything below that appears on television.

And it is clear, you can turn it on, and within a matter of seconds, you can tell where the person who wrote it stood. That's not the way it's supposed to be. Our press has become like it is the United Kingdom, where there's a right wing, a center, and a left. And that has never been part of what America was supposed to be. And you lose the faith and trust in the media to hold people accountable because they keep picking sides.

One more thing, I actually think this makes Donald Trump's reelection more likely, not less, because if the public feels that there's a deliberate bias against the President, they will rally around him. Just watch.

KURTZ: OK. One quick last question on this subject and that is, does it hurt the President rather than just sort of taking the win that he goes on and attacking Pelosi, Schiff, Democrats, vicious horrible people, and, you know, without sort of gesture of trying to bring the country together?

LUNTZ: Well, every time he's done it, he has gone up or at least he has pleased his base. So, as a pollster, I'm not sure if it hurts him politically, but privately, all of us on all sides wish that we could end this, wish that there can be some sense of civility and decency. I understand his wanting to do this, but I don't think it's good for the country. Honestly, I don't think it is.

KURTZ: Right. Well, Nancy Pelosi is attacking him, too. So, obviously, both sides are not deescalating at all, at least so far.

Let's turn to the Iowa causes. I mean, the media have endlessly chronicled what a complete and utter fiasco the whole thing has been. Do you think it hurt in particular Pete Buttigieg or Bernie Sanders who might have been declared the winners, or co-winners, or a tie, whatever, but also, the Democratic Party as a whole?

LUNTZ: Well, how can you run a country if you can't run a caucus? You criticized the Republicans repeatedly for voter suppression. And yet, you've got hundreds of counties that are not reported correctly according to New York Times. I think that once again we are shredding the confidence that the public has in democracy.

And, Howie, I want to raise one more point. There's no reason for Nancy Pelosi to tear up Donald Trump's speech. That was petulance. And that's the same type of action that the Trump people were furious with Hillary Clinton back in 2016 when she called them deplorables.

If the Republicans show that effort, I actually believe that that could have a significant impact on the election, as Americans look at this and say that's awful.

Now, Donald Trump should have shook her hand. And, in fact, the strategy that he could have used to express his disappointment with her was to say to her with the biggest smile possible, I'm still here, Nancy, you see?

KURTZ: All right. Maybe you should have given him that line. Look, you predicted on this program about nine months ago that Bernie Sanders was the likely nominee then you backed off a little bit when he slid in the polls. You want to revive the prediction? Obviously, many in the Democratic Party are worried that he would be a nominee who would easily lose to the President?

LUNTZ: I don't necessarily think that he would easily lose. I've been -- I spent a week in Iowa, I spent a week in New Hampshire, which I wish the reporting community would do.

All these pundits who are -- who are on these cable channels are purporting to know what's happening. And yet, they are not talking to the voters themselves. And they're going to end up like 2016 where they get it wrong.

The Sanders' rallies are bigger than anyone else's. They're more passionate than anyone else. He's drawing a group of people that don't look like they came out of Berkeley from the 1960s. His appeal is getting deeper, it's getting broader. And it is similar to Donald Trump, and that, they want a wholesale change. They want to drain their swamp actually.

If you want to look at the red analogy, they want to fill swap that Donald Trump is trying to drain.

KURTZ: All right. Frank, I've got 30 seconds. Joe Biden disappointing fourth place finish in Iowa. He himself predicted in the debate on Friday that he will lose New Hampshire. But are the media sort of prematurely saying he's in such trouble, he can never recover, he's toast.

LUNTZ: Well, I've never heard a candidate be called toast when they are a frontrunner, when they're still leading in the polls nationwide.

With that said, I don't think he does well in New Hampshire, I don't think he does well in Nevada, and I think he narrowly wins in South Carolina. Every vote that Mike Bloomberg, and that's the person we should be talking about -- every vote that Mike Bloomberg gets is a vote that Joe Biden once had and doesn't anymore.

KURTZ: All right. We will -- we will talk more about Bloomberg in the weeks to come. Frank Luntz, good to see you from L.A.

LUNTZ: Thank you.

KURTZ: Thanks very much.

Coming up, mix media review for -- Frank just talked about, Nancy Pelosi's State of the Union stunt. And a media furor over the President firing two staffers.

And later, the media says Joe Biden is in deep trouble, is that a premature obituary?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Fox News alert, we are learning more details about the pair of shootings that injured two police officers in the Bronx in less than 24 hours. NYPD Commissioner Dermot Shea saying that moments ago, the man suspected in both shootings is now in custody. The suspect not being named as of this moment, but Shea says he has previous criminal record, which includes a shootout with police back in 2002.

Both officers are expected to fully recover from their injuries. And the officer from Saturday's shooting is expected to be released from the hospital this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Three years ago, we launched the Great American comeback.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: President Trump drawing mix media review for State of the Union, but Nancy Pelosi stole many of the headlines, as you know, by rather tearing up the speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you rip the speech up, Madam Speaker?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MARYLAND: That was the courteous thing to do considering the alternative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Joining us now here in Washington, Gayle Trotter, host of Podcast, Right in D.C., the Gayle Trotter Show, and in Manchester, Mara Liasson of NPR, a Fox News Contributor.

So, Gayle, even some liberal commentators like Chris Matthews are saying it was a low blow and disrespectful for Pelosi to tear up Trump's speech at the end of his address, which she did quite deliberately and in front of the cameras. So the pundits are split, but not entirely.

GAYLE TROTTER, GAYLE TROTTER SHOW HOST: That's right. Some people gave her flak for hit. But you saw the New York Times had two articles making false equivalency between Trump not shaking her hand and Nancy ripping the speech, which had the names of all American heroes and these great stories.

And so, you see some of the media giving fault to Nancy for doing that. But I think the mainstream media, the big ones, are actually trying to say that it's an equivalent action between President Trump and Nancy Pelosi.

KURTZ: Mara, the journalist who is were supporting Pelosi on this are saying in fact that the President's initial refuse to shake her hand somehow justified this along with the fact that she says that the speech was full of lies, which obviously we can go through and fact-check it, but often, they're disputed details in any State of the Union speech.

But the bottom-line was, we all saw the image the next day she stole a lot of the next-day headlines.

MARA LIASSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah. And I think that the reporting has pointed out that what she did get a round of criticism from people who support the President, and a lot of Democrats in Congress loved it because she was expressing what a lot of them felt about the speech.

The State of the Union was an incredible by partisan event from the President's remarks to Nancy Pelosi's actions at the end. And I think that's the fairest way that the media can report it. If commentators want to say she -- she was right to do it or wrong to do it, that's another thing.

TROTTER: But you're taking about violating norms all of the time and how is there not significant blowback to Nancy Pelosi for violating this?

LIASSON: There is -- there was significant blowback. She did violate a norm and too many norms are being violated. I don't know how many norms we have left. I mean, we can go all the way back to -- to you know a Congressman yelling you lied to Barack Obama during the State of the Union speech.

KURTZ: All right. Let me get a couple...

LIASSON: There's no doubt that both sides are breaking norms.

KURTZ: Let me get in a couple of quick footnotes about the State of the Union. The President did not invite anyone from CNN this time for the traditional off-the-record anchor lunch before the speech. And White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham complained a leaked in memo that it was there was the height of hypocrisy for some of those journalists who did attend the lunch, which is off-the-record to then leak tidbits from the conversation to some of their colleagues including some the President specifically asked them not to share.

Let me turn now to what happened late Friday, which is the President in rapid succession firing his ambassador to European Union Gordon Sondland and also Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, both of them testifying obviously at the House impeachment hearings. And let's listen to what some people had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CUOMO PRIME TIME HOST: Anybody who does not side with this President is seen as an enemy.

This is just the beginning, Vindman, Sondland. It's not the end.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Vindman, you want to be in charge of foreign policy, why don't you try running for President?

President Trump is draining the swamp. And this is what it looks like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Gayle, the Washington Post's headline was Campaign of Retribution. Obviously, the President has the right to do this. And they're all his appointees. But why shouldn't it be portrayed by the press as striking back at perceived enemies?

TROTTER: It should not be portrayed that way. And I think the problem is the media mobs want someone who stays in his lane and that they're able to manipulate through their coverage of these events. But I will tell you that many Americans across the country were so happy this to the see that people who had done the public betrayals are no longer in charge of our foreign policy and are no longer able to undermine this President.

So that's where the media coverage was wrong because it didn't give enough lift to that feeling of relief by the American people that these people are no longer in positions to harm this administration.

KURTZ: But, Mara, when Gayle says public betrayals, you know, the view from these two witnesses that they were summoned to testify, they told the truth. Vindman, of course, won a Purple Heart in Iraq and his lawyer says this is about revenge and being booted for telling the truth. And he was escorted out of the White House, he was reassigned to the Pentagon, which is fine.

LIASSON: Yeah.

KURTZ: But the President obviously was trying to send a message.

LIASSON: Right. The President certainly was within bounds to do what he did. Alexander Vindman is not unemployed. As you said, he's back in the Pentagon from which he was detailed.

On the other hand, to say that the President wants to take revenge or get some payback for the people he felt did him wrong is fair. Stephanie Grisham even said when are these people going to pay for this.

So I think it's -- it's fair reporting to say that both things are true. He was within his rights and it was perfectly legal for him to remove these people from the White House, but also, of course, he's trying to get back at home that he thinks did him wrong.

KURTZ: Right. CNN calling it a Friday night massacre, but that's off, because the Saturday night massacre with Richard Nixon, fired people who are investigating him, the special prosecutor. All right.

LIASSON: Right.

KURTZ: After the break, on the eve of the New Hampshire primary, two days away, the pundits saying Mayor Pete is hot, Joe Biden is not. And can Bernie Sanders really win the nomination? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: There's two days to go until the New Hampshire primary. And we're still feeling it from the Iowa caucus meltdown, when people judge prematurely, gave a victory speech, and Joe Biden eventually admitted defeat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE BUTTIGIEG, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Iowa, you have shocked the nation, by all indications, we are going onto New Hampshire victorious.

BERNIE SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is really sad that the Democratic Party of Iowa, if I may say so, screwed up the counting process quite so badly. We ended up winning the popular vote by 6,000.

JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We took a gut punch in Iowa. The whole process took a gut punch. But look this isn't the first time in my life that I've been knocked down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Mara Liasson in New Hampshire. The papers are filled with tick-tocks about this remarkable upset by this previously obscured small town mayor, Mayor Pete. And he has shot up in the New Hampshire polls. In one poll today, he's 2 points behind Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and others. Are they -- are journalists taken with Pete Buttigieg as they were with say Beto?

LIASSON: No, actually. I think that whoever puts in a surprise finish in Iowa gets a certain round of media coverage. Pete Buttigieg was not polling at the top of the polls in Iowa. So he was a surprise and he gets the round.

But I think there has been a skeptical coverage of Buttigieg, too. You know, he's the old person's idea of what a young person should be, his kind of platitudinous, et cetera. But he did better than people thought he would, so he got a bounce, which includes media coverage out of Iowa.

KURTZ: Nothing better in politics than better than expected.

LIASSON: Yes, better than expected.

KURTZ: Gayle, back when he was an asterisk with a funny name, Buttigieg decided to do a lot of media interviews. Just this past week, Gayle, he was on 18 different shows including all Fox Sunday shows today, Fox News Sunday among them.

I think that helps him. And I think, in contrast with Joe Biden doing very few television interviews, in his first Sunday show today on ABC, what do you think?

TROTTER: Right. Well, he even did interview on TMZ live, so he has really got an expansive view of what media coverage he's willing to go for. And you see that in contrast with the coverage in Biden. You see bye, bye, Biden, Biden blew it. It is all these liter of headlines about Biden.

And I think that's why you're seeing Mayor Pete, even though he's against the Electoral College, he's happy that he was able to succeed in Iowa due to the delegate count versus the popular vote. And I think we're going to see more coverage of him because he's willing to do these interviews at a much greater pace, because he has less to lose.

KURTZ: Yeah. Well, of course, he was the one who is least well known in America, so he decided that he is going to do media interviews. And you know who else did a lot of media interviews, Donald Trump in 2016.

Mara, plenty of media reports now. It's kind of delayed because of Iowa caucus results being delayed, Joe Biden blew it, he couldn't excite anybody.

LIASSON: Yeah.

KURTZ: He struggled to raise money. His team knew for months that he was in trouble according to a couple of accounts. All these on the basis of what everyone says Iowa is a small unrepresented state except you have Biden himself saying he's going to take in New Hampshire as well in that debate Friday night.

LIASSON: Yeah. That was kind of shocking to downplay expectations, you know, by yourself.

KURTZ: To that extent.

LIASSON: Look -- yeah, the historical rules only work until they stop working. And what we know from the past is that someone who comes in fourth in Iowa and expects to also do poorly in New Hampshire generally doesn't find their footing and become the nominee.

But you know what, all the rules have been thrown out the window. Maybe Joe Biden can blow everybody out of the water in South Carolina and regroup on Super Tuesday. I mean, we just don't know. But there's no doubt that by everything we've known from the past coming in fourth in Iowa, when you were making electability, you were first, second and third calling card about the viability of your candidacy is just bad.

KURTZ: That's a fair point. And also many Biden allies, some of them on the record were contributing to these newspaper stories about how you know they all knew for months that he will have a hard time in Iowa.

And, Gayle, Bernie Sanders, you know, who as I mentioned earlier, bounced back from a heart attack, he was always going to do well in neighboring state because he's from Vermont.

TROTTER: Yes.

KURTZ: But even left-leaning pundits are now worried about him winning the nomination. You have the Times' Michelle Goldberg calling him a wild gamble.

TROTTER: Yeah.

KURTZ: Are many journalists, Gayle, in your view, oppose to Sanders because they don't think he can beat Trump?

TROTTER: Clearly, that's the case. And they're trying to influence voters' view of Bernie Sanders. And we saw this happened in 2016 when so much was against him and he appeals to far-left Democrats.

But I think people in the media understand that there -- there needs to be a broader appeal. And so, they are trying to paint him in a certain way that will affect his chances rather than just reporting it straight.

KURTZ: Just briefly, do you think they are painting him unfairly?

TROTTER: Yes.

KURTZ: I mean, he's a self-described Democratic socialist?

TROTTER: Yes, I think they are. Because, wild gambit, I mean, I think that is not about his policy preferences, but it's about his electability.

KURTZ: Yeah. And ultimately, the voters do get to decide this, despite all the prognostications and predications, and sometimes, we find out how wrong we were as you both have pointed out. Gayle Trotter, Mara Liasson in Manchester, thanks very much for joining us.

Still to come, Rush Limbaugh transformed broadcasting. The media now debate his legacy even as he battles a potentially fatal illness. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Rush Limbaugh who utterly transformed the radio landscape made a stunning announcement the other day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW HOST: The upshot is that I have been diagnosed with advanced lung cancer. And I wish I didn't have to tell you this. And I thought about not telling anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Limbaugh put talk radio and especially conservative talk radio on the map, filling a void in the era before the internet. And Fox News, whether you love or loathe his ideology, he drew a huge audience of dido heads and became force of the Republican Party. President Trump praised him at the State of the Union.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He's the greatest fighter and winner that you will ever meet. Rush Limbaugh, thank you for your decades of tireless devotions to our country.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: But emotional as the First Lady presented him with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, right there during the speech.

Now, some of the media point out that he Limbaugh is a polarizing figure, who use such terms. He was booted as an ESPN analyst over a comment about black quarterback. He apologized for calling a law student a slutty, got caught up in an investigation after admitting very candidly that he had become addicted to pain killers.

So I get the debate over whether he should have gotten the medal. But he is a man who inspired millions while fighting for his beliefs, regularly torching what he calls the drive-by media.

Now, I've interviewed Rush a few times. We should all wish him the best, even his critics, even those who oppose him ideologically. We should wish him the best as he battles this deadly disease. And I will say that about anyone, either on the left or the right. We are all human beings.

That is it for this edition for "Media Buzz." I'm Howard Kurtz. This is a week when I felt like we needed two hours. OK.

Check out my "Media Buzz Meter" Podcast, you can put that graphic back up. You can subscribe at Apple iTunes, Google Play, or FoxNewsPodcast.com.

I just feel like we went -- we kind of bounced around from the Iowa caucuses to the State of the Union, to the President being acquitted and impeachment charges to the war of words with the Democrats and to the firings and all of that, we tried to cover it all for you.

Hope you like our Facebook page where we post my daily columns. And continue the conversation on Twitter @HowardKurtz.

Back here next Sunday at 11:00 Eastern with the latest Buzz.

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