Media slams Amy Coney Barrett for refusing to details views in hearings

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Media slams Amy Coney Barrett for refusing to details views in hearings

Media slams Amy Coney Barrett for refusing to details views in hearings

Oct. 18, 2020 – This is a rush transcript from “Media Buzz” October 18, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS ANCHOR:  This is MEDIA BUZZ. I'm Howard Kurtz. We've got Hogan Gidley of the Trump campaign standing by. The contrast between the dueling presidential town halls was so dramatic, it's like they were conducted on different planets. NBC's Savannah Guthrie came out swinging, hitting President Trump with 20 minutes of confrontational questions and a sometimes dismissive tone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  You don't know if you took a test the day of the debate. You say you don't know if you got a test on the day of the debate?

Shouldn't you have known better? Shouldn't the White House know better than to hold an even like that? You're the president. You're not like someone's crazy uncle.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  You were asked point blank to denounce white supremacy. In the moment, you didn't. You were so in doubt about our democracy.

DONALD TRUMP, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT:  How can you say that? You do read newspapers. You do watch the news.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ:  At the same hour, ABC's George Stephanopoulos took a much lower key approach with Joe Biden, deferring to the audience, rarely following up, and treating it like a policy seminar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  There's no record of you calling for social distancing, limited social gatherings, mandatory --

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Not back then.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  In January, February. How you can you contain the pandemic without crushing the economy? If you lose, what will that say to you about where America is today?

BIDEN:  Well, it could say that I'm a lousy candidate and I didn't do a good job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ:  Joining us now to analyze the coverage in New York, Emily Compagno, host of Fox Nation's Crimes that Change America, Gillian Turner, a Fox News correspondent here in Washington, and Juan Williams, co-host of The Five.

Emily, as I said, Savannah Guthrie coming out with her fists up for first

20 minutes, challenging the president repeatedly on his own COVID-19 infection, on questions about white supremacy, at one point likening him to a crazy uncle.

Now, I happen to like aggressive presidential interviews. But the question is about tone. Were her tone and her questions fair, in your view?

EMILY COMPAGNO, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  I didn't think they were fair, because they were under guise of it being a town hall. Once again, the losers here were the American people who were tuning in to a town hall to see thoughtful questions asked by their fellow citizens to elicit thoughtful answers that they don't know yet.

Instead, we were invited to a 20 minute sparring session. And I thought if that was the intent, then it should've been planned out as an interview so we knew what were getting into. But unfortunately, again, the losers were us that lost out on the opportunity for valuable information.

KURTZ:  It did look at times, Gillian, like Savannah Guthrie herself was debating President Trump. Now, do you think she was under a lot of pressure, because some at NBC, MSNBC liberals like Rachel Maddow who was quite open about it, along with celebrities like Ben Stiller, Amy Schumer, other actors and show runners at NBC felt the network either shouldn't be airing the he debate at the same hour as ABC, or airing it at all.

GILLIAN TURNER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Well, we know that some folks at the network felt that this Trump town hall should not have been happening on their air period because that was reported by multiple by outlets, multiple sources. But a quick note on Savannah's performance. This was under the guise of a town hall, as Emily said.

But at the same time, everybody tuning in knew that these town halls were substituting for a presidential debate. I think Savannah Guthrie took that attitude on when she went into this. She said, you know, basically the moderator has a bigger role to play here. They have more responsibility to push back, to really probe these candidates.

Because this is replacing a moment when the candidates themselves should be going head to head and Savannah Guthrie did that.

KURTZ:  On that network, Saturday Night Live last night depicted it as a wrestling match with Savannah, actually Kate McKinnon, bashing Alec Baldwin over the head with a chair. So Juan, the NBC town hall made news. Was Guthrie effective in eliciting revealing from the president, and how would you contrast it with George Stephanopoulos' more passive approach to Biden on ABC?

JUAN WILLIAMS, THE FIVE CO-HOST:  Well, I think she did elicit some interesting answers, for example, the president -- I think sort of equivocating answer about QAnon not saying he doesn't know what it is, then saying, well, I know they don't like pedophilia. So either is he, like, trying to duck the question or is he, as the president sort of negligent not knowing what QAnon is.

When asked about the test before the first debate, he says maybe I did.

Maybe I didn't. What kind of answer is that? So yeah, I think there are some interesting answers. But overall, Howie, I think, you know, no one forced the president to do this town hall. He agreed to do the town hall.

And he agreed to do it knowing that Savannah Guthrie was the host. So why play victim?

KURTZ:  All right. Well, let me turn to ABC now with Emily. So Stephanopoulos asked some good, solid questions. They were mostly about policy as opposed to Biden's credibility or character. He deferred to the audience. There were many more town hall questions. Most of them were friendly to Biden. And the only time Stephanopoulos really followed up was when Biden stuck with his relatively evasive stance about wouldn't didn't go further.

COMPAGNO:  Sure. But I do feel that a lot of the questions were repetitive.

They were questions to which we've already heard the answer. So I felt -- I felt that we lost out in terms of the absence of information. It was sort of like watching a really slow car moving down the road. And I thought the issue, you know, 180 degrees is not a correction. That's positive.

Meaning that the passive approach, it still didn't elicit thoughtful answers that we need, and I think some of these softball questions again it's to our detriment, these voters who are really analyzing and trying to decide.

KURTZ:  On that point, Juan, ABC, one of the town hall questioners selected by the network was a former Obama administration speechwriter, but not identified as such. How can ABC possibly justify that, and your take on the Stephanopoulos style of questioning?

WILLIAMS:  I don't think that can be justified. I think that you have to be clear. I think, ideally, you would have people there who are undecided voters, which is what was advertised. As to the style, Mercedes Schlapp who was with the Trump campaign, but someone we know very well, said it was like Mr. Roger's Neighborhood. I thought, gee, I think a lot of voters want a return to normal.

So if that was Biden's intent to convey that we can get back to normal, we can back to having a president that you can look up to and say to your children this is the way to behave. I think that was pretty effective for Biden.

KURTZ:  Well, Emily, doesn't this -- all this -- the contrast -- and it was everybody who wrote about this said wow. It was just a stark black and white, night and day difference. Doesn't it fuel the argument that the media are biased, that they are determined not to give Joe Biden a particularly hard time?

COMPAGNO:  Yes. Civility is not mutually exclusive from thoughtful content.

So I don't believe that you can -- that you don't need -- that you have to have a disrespectful or attacking or talking over one another forum to elicit difficult questions and thoughtful answers. I think you can have a very respectful, thoughtful platform that elicits that content.

So I think a return to normal can include difficult questions that forces and probes to thoughtful answers the American people deserve.

KURTZ:  And Gillian, this was telling. This is my own assessment. I don't have a scientific study, but 90 percent of the clips that were played on all networks and websites and so forth after the duelling town halls were about Trump. Trump's controversial comments on this, that and the other thing, Trump going up against Savannah.

And it once again suggests that, you know, even when you had actually the Biden town hall was 30 minutes longer. He just continues to dominate the news.

TURNER:  That's what he does best, right? I mean, most of the last four years have been dominated by news about President Trump himself, what he says, what he writes, what he tweets, what he tells other people behind closed doors that's reported on. So this was a continuation of that. A quick note on Stephanopoulos, he went into this, we know, trying to actively contrast himself with the other town hall by appearing thoughtful and sort of calm and contained and not sparring.

But at the same time, as Emily says, still very big responsibility here for him to push back on Vice President Biden and to probe him, because again, these were town halls substituting for a presidential debate.

KURTZ:  Juan, on that point, I mean, not a single question from George Stephanopoulos on the Hunter Biden story. And even if you have problems with the Hunter Biden story as reported by the New York Post -- we're going to talk about that later in the program. You would think you would want to have the former vice president have a chance to respond to it.

And that's why I said, you know, it was like a policy forum, nothing wrong with a policy forum. But boy, very different from the absolute grilling that the president got on NBC.

WILLIAMS:  Well, two points. One, yes, it was different. But remember, and this was a surprise to me as someone involved with television. The Biden town hall got better ratings than the Trump town hall. And I thought for sure Trump is the more entertaining, combative, interesting character. So I thought for sure -- I don't know what it says that Biden's show outdrew him.

And to your second point, Howie, I think that when you look at the way that it was conducted. I think that lots of it has to do with the two candidates themselves. And so you're looking at two people who are different. I don't think that Biden and Trump are of similar personalities.

KURTZ:  Yeah. That's the understatement of the decade, I think. And the slight edge for Biden in the ratings was particularly striking, because the NBC town hall was also simulcast on MSNBC and CNBC. Gillian, as you mentioned, you know, this was to be the night of the second debate. That was to be moderated by C-Span political editor and Washington Journal Host, Steve Scully. Scully has now been suspended indefinitely by C-Span.

He had posted on Twitter a message to an aide turned fierce critic, Anthony Scaramucci, about how he should handle the criticism from President Trump.

Let's take a look at Scully sitting down with the president last year and then what the president had to say more recently.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Do you think that you're a uniter as president?

TRUMP:  Well, you know, if I got fair coverage, I wouldn't even half to tweet. Respect for you and also the fact that you do really a good job of covering. And then you look at this guy Scully, he turned out to be a fraud. You look at Scully. He was a never-Trumper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ:  C-Span called it a serious mistake when Scully claimed to have been hacked over that Scaramucci message. He told the AP I falsely claimed that my Twitter account has been hacked. These were errors in judgment, for which I'm told irresponsible. I apologize -- your take.

TURNER:  I don't know that lying is the same thing as having an error in judgment, just to push back on Scully a little bit on that point. But this is a classic case of the cover-up being worse than the crime. Scully tweeted something. Rather than apologizing for it or correcting himself, he decided to double down with a bold-faced lie.

Got caught, shocked a lot of people, disappointed a lot of people. I don't know where C-Span goes from here with this.

KURTZ:  Well, my understanding is that Scully felt that he was unfairly beaten up for having had a six week internship in Joe Biden's mailroom 42 years ago.

TURNER:  Yeah. But it doesn't excuse lying.

(CROSSTALK)

TURNER:  Still can't lie.

KURTZ:  I was about -- I was about to say that he felt this way. He -- one of his kids was attacked on social media, and all of that reached a tipping point for him, which he reacted emotionally and did commit the cardinal sin of lying. There is no question about that. Nobody is defending that, not even him. But it just shows you the kind of pressure you can be under when you're getting attacked over this long-ago internship.

All right, time to get a break. When we come back, how are the media treating Amy Coney Barrett after her testimony blanketed the airwaves. And later, Trump campaign spokesman, Hogan Gidley.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ:  In days of hearings carried by the cable news networks, Supreme Court nominee, Amy Coney Barrett, was a highly poised witness as Republicans praised her legal credentials. And Democrats tried in vain to get her to expose her views on such hot button issues as abortion, gay rights, and Obamacare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMY CONEY BARRETT, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE:  I'm not here on a mission to destroy the Affordable Care Act. I'm just here to apply the law and adhere to the rule of law

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  You have the Trump administration Republican attorney general are trying to kill the ACA before the court. All the Republicans act like you're some kind of a psychopath if you bring up the fact they want to kill the ACA, which obviously they want to do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Since Democrats can't contest her qualifications or certainly match her intellect, they decided to launch this series of desperate attacks and smear attempts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I mean, here's a judicial nominee saying in writing.

I oppose abortion, and Roe versus Wade is barbaric. That's like the definition of the kind of thing you're supposed to disclose to the Senate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  She exposed the absolute hatred that now defines this new radical and insane and extreme Democratic socialist party. She did it with a calm, unflappable demeanor, and a solid command of facts without a single note in front of her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ:  Emily Compagno, some liberal media outlets saying commentators along with the Democrats acting shocked and amazed that Judge Barrett would even hint at her views on these and other issues, as if no Supreme Court nominee had ever done that before.

COMPAGNO:  That's exactly right. The Washington Post called it a pattern of evasiveness that she was engaging. However, as an attorney, I saw it as appropriate deference and respect for ongoing court cases, and an acknowledgement that if she were to comment on a hypothetical in these hearings that undoubtedly if that issue came before her as a justice in the future.

Half the country would clamour for a certain ruling. And she would have to recuse herself. I think it's intellectually dishonest for these senators to not acknowledge that it's really -- it doesn't behove anyone for her to comment on these hypotheticals at all

KURTZ:  And Juan, honest liberals have to admit, I think, that Barrett was a knowledgeable and very disciplined witness who didn't allow herself to be drawn into any fiery exchanges with senators that could be replayed again and again on television.

WILLIAMS:  I think that's right. And I think that she -- you know, her whole presentation with the family behind her was very effective. And as you've said, I think she was pretty calm in responding. Now, let me say I differ on this point of evasiveness. I think she was very evasive. I think most nominees, Democrat and Republican, especially since Bork in the late 80s, have decided that the way to go is not to say much.

But she went beyond that. For example, on the privacy issue, Griswold, going back to a 1965 decision, Chief Justice Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Alito, all of them have said, yes. We agree with that decision. Judge Barrett wouldn't even talk about it. And, you know, she says no man's above the law. But she won't say oh, yeah, can President Trump pardon himself?

Boy, that seemed very political

KURTZ:  All right. But my point was that both Democratic and Republican nominees have engaged in certain versions of this. Gillian, I want to play a clip of Amy Coney Barrett talking about the impact of the nomination fight on her and her family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARRETT:  We knew that our lives would be combed over for any negative detail. We knew that our faith would be a caricatured. We knew our family would be attacked. What sane person would go through that if there wasn't a benefit on the other side?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ:  Hard not to feel empathy for anyone in that situation. The New York Times says she's a super mom that having seven kids, which was talked about quite a bit, is now kind of an asset for women in public life who might otherwise be viewed as too ambitious.

TURNER:  Yeah. And I think she comported herself during that answer beautifully. When we look at specifically the coverage of the hearings, what really struck me was one of the ways -- I think a lot of journalists did her a disservice was by making these hearings about President Trump because of the media's obsession with covering him 24 hours a day, to the exclusion of all else.

This hearing became about the president and the president's policies and what he was said in the past. It didn't give her a lot of room to try and stake out territory for herself. Constant references to the Affordable Care Act, to other legislation that President Trump has in his crosshairs were legitimate. But they didn't give her any room whatsoever, and that I think was a disservice to her as a woman.

KURTZ:  Emily, on that point about Obamacare. It made me think about whether the media oversimplified these issues. Everything was like, well, is she for or against the Affordable Care Act. It actually turns the case before the Supreme Court on the issue severability, meaning is one part that having been ruled unconstitutional (Inaudible) does that knock out the entire law. And on that, Judge Barrett's views are a little more nuanced.

COMPAGNO:  That's exactly right. And I also think the senators over- simplified. They failed to discern and really make clear the difference between some of her prior rulings, for example, on procedural issues, ministerial issues, or even whether the plaintiff had met its burden of proof. So they were sort of sitting there slinging shots to her, thinking that they would find chinks in her armour.

But she calmly explained, I thought, extremely effectively and very clearly that in every specific case there was a specific and articulable reason why, which I think those who are clamoring outside of the courthouse and the hearing room right now are failing to acknowledge, ACA included.

KURTZ:  Some of the center just wouldn't shut up. They gave speeches. Juan, I've got about 20 seconds. I think what particularly upset liberals was Judge Barrett saying she wouldn't recuse herself from any post election challenge by the president who has appointed her.

WILLIAMS:  Yeah, but that's the big one. But, you know, I mean, what upset the left, I think, is the rushed process and the fact that, you know, the president has made clear what he wants done on the Affordable Care Act, what he wants done on abortion, and he picked her. So I -- you know, you have to be kind of blind not to think, oh, maybe this is a -- you know, she's in there to do her job.

KURTZ:  All right. Juan Williams, Emily Compagno, and Gillian Turner, thanks very much for joining us. Gillian, we'll see a bit later. Up next, Twitter and Facebook censoring that New York Post story on Hunter Biden.

And that turned into a fiasco.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ:  Two social media giants have gone to war with the Trump campaign over a New York Post story alleging that Hunter Biden set up a meeting between his dad while he was vice president and Ukrainian energy executives. The tabloid's piece was based on emails obtained under rather odd of circumstances by Rudy Giuliani. Facebook limited distribution of the piece while having it reviewed by an outside fact-checker.

Twitter totally barred its users from sharing the story and locked the Post's account, accusing the paper of distributing hacked material and publishing email addresses. Then, Twitter escalated by temporarily locking the Trump campaign's account and Kayleigh McEnany's personal account.

Joining us now is Fox News correspondent Griff Jenkins.

And Griff, Twitter's CEO, Jack Dorsey, said his company's lack of an explanation was unacceptable. He's right about that. And Twitter backed off and said, well, we'll allow hacked material as long as it's not posted by the hackers themselves. We'll put kind of a warning on it. But it took two days to apply that to Hunter Biden's story. So how much of a black eye is this for Twitter?

GRIFF JENKINS, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Well, let me just say this, Howie.

If Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg wanted to limit people looking at this story, they couldn't have done more to amplify it to 11 on the Richter scale of one to ten. And you know after the backlash over Twitter's censoring of the Post story. And that's what many felt they did.

They had revised their policy to say that they'll label questionable tweets instead of blocking them outright and will no longer remove hacked content.

That's what Twitter said about it, that unless it's directly shared by hackers or their accomplices, then they won't block it. They'll simply label it questionable. But now, you have the Senate Judiciary Committee, Chairman Lindsey Graham, planning to subpoena them. So it's going to theoretically get them. We don't have a date yet, but --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ:  Basically, this backfired. And it did bring far more attention to the story. And by the way, Facebook still hasn't finished its fact-checking review. Also, it was kind of blacked out by CNN and MSNBC in the first 24 hours. Look, there have been almost no instances that I know of, of Twitter blocking or limiting the distribution of stories that are negative about Donald Trump or his campaign.

So didn't both of these companies give ammunition to the president and conservative who say they are biased against the right?

JENKINS:  I think that's exactly right. It play's into the president's hand when he accuses of being attacked and censored. And now, you have got Kayleigh McEnany's -- obviously, she's a serious person. She's the press secretary. So to go after her really is the kind of editorializing that Twitter and Facebook's critics will say.

And I think that look. Jack Dorsey has taken a level of editorializing in many people's minds that is unprecedented. And we're going to have a lot more questions than we do answers on it.

KURTZ:  Right. Now, there are legitimate questions about the New York Post story. Rudy Giuliani, for example, says he got these Hunter Biden emails from a hard drive, from a computer repair shop in Delaware that's run by a guy named John Mac Isaac. He talked to reporters. Let's take a brief look about how he thinks it was Hunter Biden who brought in the laptop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I'm legally blind. If he came and it was late at night, my eyes are tired. I probably couldn't see clear past two feet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ:  So the story is not exactly airtight. And it's not even clear the Biden campaign denies this meeting that was reported by -- in the emails that actually took place.

JENKINS:  So Fox News has yet to independently authenticate these allegations and these emails. And that's why you've got people like the Homeland Security Committee Chairman in Senator Ron Johnson, asking the FBI to tell us whether or not this is actually valid, this laptop, these emails, and whether or not this points towards Russian disinformation. We don't know.

But at the end of the day, when you're running for president of the United States, when Biden just simply discounted out of hand that he wasn't going to answer the question. I think that raises a lot of eyebrows, because, again, the elements of this story suggest Washington insider self interest, influence peddling, and that's the takeaway.

KURTZ:  Right. And the Washington Post reported yesterday, according to former officials, that the White House was warned last year that Rudy Giuliani was the target of a Russian disinformation campaign, that he was interacting with a guy in Ukraine who is suspected now of being a Russian spy. Giuliani told the Daily Beast. First of all, he's called the charges against himself a bunch of bull.

But he said it's a 50/50 chance that the Ukrainian official that he dealt with is a Russian spy, interesting. So a lot of this remains murky, Griff Jenkins, great to see you. Thanks so much.

JENKINS:  Thanks, Howie.

KURTZ:  And coming up, from network town halls to the coverage of Amy Coney Barrett, Hogan Gidley of the Trump campaign is on deck.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ:  And coming up, from network town hall to the coverage of Amy Coney Barrett, Hogan Gidley of the Trump campaign is on deck.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ:  And joining us now is Hogan Gidley, the national press secretary for the Trump campaign and, of course, former deputy White House press secretary.

Hogan, what is your take on Savannah Guthrie's handling of that NBC town hall and wasn't she right to be skeptical when the president was unable to say whether he had a COVID test on the day of that first debate?

HOGAN GIDLEY, TRUMP 2020 NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY:  First things first. I need to correct Juan Williams from a previous segment you had on your show just today. It was actually 16 million people tuned in to watch the president on NBC, 14.1 on ABC, so it was in fact the president of the United States who got more viewers, first things first.

KURTZ:  Are you including the cable networks that carried eat? Just to clarify. Including the cable networks?

GIDLEY:  The numbers that came in, 16 million watched it for NBC, 14 for ABC. So the fact is the president obviously always gets more ratings.

People tune in to see the sitting president of the United States and what he is going to do to improve their lives for the next four years.

As far as Savannah Guthrie is concerned, 43 questions she got in that town hall when it was supposed to be questions from the American people. They only got 10. So she asked all the questions, she answered all the questions, and when she wasn't doing either of those, she was interrupting the president's answers.

The fact is the deck is always stacked against the president. But he doesn't care. He goes on the tough shows, he takes the tough questions, and he answers for what he has done to improve the lives of all Americans, regardless of race, religion, color or creed. We saw that at the NBC town hall.

KURTZ:  All right. Let me look at -- let's look at one of those answers, Savannah Guthrie asking him about the conspiracy group QAnon. Here is what the president had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  I know nothing about it. I do know they are very much against pedophilia. They fight it very hard. But I know nothing about it.

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC LEGAL ANALYST AND CORRESPONDENT:  They believe --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ:  Now, QAnon, some QAnon followers spread baseless conspiracy theories about Satan worshiping child sex trafficking rings run by Democrats. The FBI says it is a potential domestic terror threat. Some people were surprised that the president was sort of mixed in his response.

GIDLEY:  Well, he's not mixed in the response. He was pretty clear he didn't really know much about the group at all. But this is the point I was trying to make.

When the American people got the chance to ask the questions that, you know, concerned their futures, not just for them and their families but for their children, for their friends, they asked serious questions about the economy, they asked serious questions about jobs coming back, they asked questions about COVID.

Savannah Guthrie takes her time to ask about a crazy conspiracy theory to which the president said I don't even know what you're talking about. I hear they're against pedophilia. Yes, so am I. But he doesn't know anything about the group. He was clear.

But that's exactly what the mainstream media is trying to push. All the things that are nonsensical, that don't really address the issues that face real Americans because they know the president has the answers for those issues, they know that the president's policies have improved the lives of all Americans, so they don't want to talk about that.

Instead, they want to go down weird rabbit holes and try to make that the story the next day and obviously it was and the media played right into it.

KURTZ:  Let me turn to the Amy Coney Barrett hearings. As I said earlier, I think the media portrayed the Supreme Court nominee as certainly smart and well qualified but with a lot of complaints about how she wouldn't commit or discuss her views on all these controversial topics, not just Obamacare and abortion, but even legal birth control. Your thoughts?

GIDLEY:  Well, again, Amy Coney Barrett is well qualified for this post and the Democrats know it. So they're going down, you know, swinging, trying to attack this woman not just for her faith, for her family, but all of these other issues.

The fact remains she's going to be confirmed, hopefully this week. She will be the ninth justice on the Supreme Court. And she's following the Ginsburg rule, which again is what infuriates Democrats so much. It was something that was set in place after, you know, Bork's nomination and the catastrophe that ensued there.

Ginsburg said I'm not going to take up issues or tell you how I will rule on things that could come before me because I have to see the evidence. So, now, Amy Coney Barrett is using the same logic, the same reason that Justice Ginsburg did and it infuriates Democrats.

So they're trying to pin her down. This is the way this always works.

They've been furious every single time this president has put forth a nominee to the court even though the Constitution mandates he do just take.

He has done it here. He has picked someone perfect. We think she's going to sail through this week.

KURTZ:  All right. I won't get into what happened in 2016 because I want to move on to Facebook and Twitter, especially Twitter, censoring the New York Post story on Hunter Biden and his e-mails. Twitter temporarily locked your campaign's account --

GIDLEY:  Yeah.

KURTZ:  for just trying to share the story, published in a major newspaper.

Do you think that these moves are purely ideological?

GIDLEY:  It is absolutely stopping free speech. It is absolutely campaign interference. For these entities to try to inject themselves -- listen, this whole joke notion that they're not going to put out hacked material, none of this information was hacked, by the way.

But they're not going to put forth hacked material or uncorroborated stories. If that's the case, they never run a story on Donald Trump because everything has been ill-gotten, these leaks that come out from shadowy sources.

We now know Joe Biden has lied to the American people, thanks to these e- mails, about knowing all of the things Hunter Biden was doing with Ukraine and China. Those two countries were actually given to Joe Biden with the responsibility of building relationships with America.

Ukraine is corrupt, Burisma is corrupt, China is obviously corrupt and is communist. Those countries gave millions of dollars in contracts to Hunter Biden. You don't even ask the question?

KURTZ:  What about --

GIDLEY:  All of -- hold on one second, Howie. All of Donald Trump's children went to Congress and had to answer for a fake witch hunt hoax about Russia that was proven false and no one is even asking the Biden campaign about this.

And by the way, since the information broke, they've not refuted it at all.

They've not said it was false. They know it's true. They know it's a problem. And the American people now know it, too. Thanks to Donald Trump.

KURTZ:  Well, I agree with you about the unfair social media suppression of the story. Other questions, I think, remain to be answered. But I want to move on to one last question. That is New York Times yesterday had this story, "Fearing a 'Blood Bath,' Republican Senators Begin to Edge Away from Trump."

Talked about a leaked call involving Senator Ben Sasse in which he said president flirts with dictators and trash talks the evangelicals privately.

Ted Cruz is saying that could be Republican blood bath of Watergate proportions.

These are on the record quotes from these senators. Is there concern about this in your campaign and concern about what happens on November 3rd?

GIDLEY:  No. History proves that to be incorrect. The fact is the folks who actually embraced this president on the campaign trail typically do a lot better. They get a lot more coverage and, of course, end up winning their seats. So that is one thing to point out.

Second, you know, for Sasse to make these comments is grossly short- sighted. The president of the United States has done more to improve the lives of all Americans in 47 months than Joe Biden has done in 47 years.

The targets here are the Democrats and their radical move to the left to embrace socialism. This president has fought against that every step of the way. One of the reasons I think so many in the establishment, both on the right and the left, don't like this president is because he took power away from those people and gave it right back to real Americans.

KURTZ:  OK.

GIDLEY:  They don't like being out of power. They don't like having control. This president is standing between their push to socialism and the American way, and he's going to defend it. He's done so for the last four.

He'll do it for --

KURTZ:  Got to go.

GIDLEY:  -- the next four, as well.

KURTZ:  Hogan Gidley, always good to see you. Thanks for coming by this Sunday.

GIDLEY:  Thanks so much.

KURTZ:  After the break, Joe Biden still won't answer the court packing question and snaps at a reporter who asked about the stories on his son.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ:  Joining us now from Ohio on behalf of the Joe Biden campaign, Tim Ryan, a Democratic congressman from that state. Congressman, thanks for being here. The whole question of Joe Biden and court packing has gone for a couple weeks. It came up at the ABC town hall. Let's play the exchange with George Stephanopoulos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR:  But don't voters have a right to know where you stand?

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  They do have a right to know where I stand. They have a right to know where I stand before they vote.

STEPHANOPOULOS:  So you'll come out with a clear position before Election Day?

BIDEN:  Yes, depending on how they handle this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ:  Congressman, we all know that Republicans are going to confirm Amy Coney Barrett. Why can't Joe Biden essentially tell the press what his stance is on adding extra seats to the Supreme Court?

REP. TIM RYAN (D-OH):  Well, I think we're hoping that they'll reconsider, you know, jamming this through, this nomination through, given the fact that we still have millions of Americans that are unemployed. We've got millions of Americans who are worried about public health.

And since May 15th, they've had a bill at the Senate desk and they said we're going to hit a pause. And now, all of a sudden, there is this flashy, shiny object they want to talk about it. The reality of it is there are more pressing problems.

I tell you, we do have to review what's going on in the Supreme Court. It's a black box. We don't know what happens there. We don't know what kind of ethics rules there are there, where they get money, where they get funding.

All these things are really important. We do need to review that for sure.

We'll talk about that at the appropriate time.

KURTZ:  All right. President Trump complained the day after these dueling town halls that George Stephanopoulos had been a tough guy with him during their interview but threw soft balls to Joe Biden. Your take on that town hall with the former vice president?

RYAN:  Well, I think that -- I thought the vice president was terrific. I think anybody who has any question on any of the issues, I think he answered them, very important around the national gas issue here at Eastern Ohio and Western PA where he is supportive of the natural gas industry. He has gotten --

KURTZ:  But it wasn't exactly a grilling.

RYAN:  Every --

KURTZ:  It wasn't exactly a grilling.

RYAN:  Well, he got a chance to answer questions. I mean, these are questions from the American people. I thought he did a great job. I think the Trump campaign has devolved into almost a sporting event where one side is just blaming the rest for everything.

They're blaming the moderators, they're blaming Twitter, they're blaming Facebook, they're blaming the governors, and they're blaming the cities and the mayors.

Look, you're the most powerful person in the world. Take some responsibility for what you've done. I'm not saying everybody has got to agree on every issue. But my goodness, you're blaming local mayors and you're the president of the United States? So I think blaming the rest and that kind of thing is not conducive to leading the country.

KURTZ:  All right. The New York Post story on Hunter Biden's e-mails, do you think it raises fair questions given Rudy Giuliani's role, and talking about the rest, why did Joe Biden snap at a CBS reporter who was simply asking him, do you have any comment on the New York Post story, saying it's a smear campaign, it is right up your ally? The reporter was just asking a question.

RYAN:  Well, you know, he is a dad. I am a dad. You know, sometimes, you react as a father, enough pounding on Hunter Biden. Two republican Senate committees have found nothing. The press has been investigating this for months. This is a complete non-issue.

And look, that's real Joe Biden. He's a dad first. And that's who you want in the White House, somebody who understands and is impacted by people continuing to attack his son. I would act the same way after all of this scrutiny, after being cleared, and they're still going after this kid.

You know, enough is enough. Tell us what you're going to do to fix the country. We're in shambles now and everything. They're trying to throw stuff against the wall to see if it sticks. Two republican Senate committees have cleared this. I think that's the most significant thing.

KURTZ:  Well, Trump family members get a lot of scrutiny from the press.

Look, Twitter and Facebook, as you know, as everyone knows, is under fire for suppressing that story from the New York Post. Are you concerned as a member of Congress about the power that these social media giants have to blackout stories and what about the conservative charges? These are a bunch of Silicon Valley liberals who are basically siding with Joe Biden.

RYAN:  Well, you also -- we're learning now that -- this is going to be a national conversation that we're going to have to have in the coming months about regulating social media. But the reality of it is you can't push out content when you're considered providing news and information to the American people.

You can't just push out a bunch of garbage. And these -- as I said, these -

- all these charges have been discredited by republican-led Senate committees. So tell the American people what you want to do. So I think it's entirely appropriate for Facebook and Twitter to say, look, if it's Russian propaganda, Chinese propaganda, if it's Russian bot, if it's fake news stories, it's appropriate.

KURTZ:  All right.

RYAN:  Like I said, this was discredited by two republican Senate committees. So I think it's appropriate for them not to push this out there.

KURTZ:  All right. Congressman, we appreciate you coming on. Tim Ryan on behalf of the Biden campaign. Good to see you.

RYAN:  Thank you. Appreciate it.

KURTZ:  Still to come, top Trump ally says he was wrong for not wearing a mask and a presidential joke makes big headlines. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ:  President Trump said at the NBC town hall that he tells people to wear masks. But just the other day, they came out with a statement that 85 percent of the people that wear masks catch it, meaning the virus.

We're back with Gillian Turner. That's not quite what the CDC study said, Gillian, it was a study of a small group of people, and it contrasts with former Governor Chris Christie saying publicly that he's sorry he didn't wear a mask. He was hospitalized for a week and is now urging people to wear masks.

GILLIAN TURNER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Yeah. Well, President Trump went into the hospital and came out and kind of doubled down on his previous positions. Chris Christie went into the hospital, came out, and sort of sobered up about the experience. It must have been quite difficult for him because he is now kind of telling everybody, preaching the gospel of masks, social distancing. Two very divergent approaches.

President Trump, Howie, is right when he says that he tells people to wear masks. He does. The problem is that he also signals to people that they shouldn't wear masks, as do other members of the White House staff. So there are conflicting inconsistent messages.

KURTZ:  Yeah. And several news organizations are reporting that Scott Atlas, the doctor who is on the Coronavirus Task Force, had a tweet deleted in the last 24 hours, saying masks work, no, and citing a bunch of places where he doesn't think that they work.

Speaking of his staff, Anthony Fauci, they've been at odds for quite some time. Let me play for you a Trump campaign ad that uses Dr. Fauci and what he told CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over):  President Trump tackled the virus head on, as leaders should.

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS

DISEASES:  I can't imagine that anybody could be doing more.

To take it completely out of context statement and put it in which is obviously a political campaign ad, I thought was really very disappointing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ:  So Fauci actually said that about himself on the Coronavirus Task Force back in March. Nevertheless, the Trump campaign is sticking with that ad, Gillian.

TURNER:  I think the media really stepped up here and did provide a valuable service. They obtained a full transcript of Fauci's remarks, published them. You can go online, read them, any number of websites for yourself, to prove just how badly the Trump campaign did misquote Fauci and take him out of context.

KURTZ:  Yeah. Fauci, of course, is not shy about pointing these things out and a lot of people -- I mean, president has called them Democrats --

TURNER:  Yeah.

KURTZ:  So this -- this is like round 27.

TURNER:  But we got to -- you know, I just feel like we got to call a spade a spade, right? I mean, if you read the transcript, it's --

KURTZ:  Yeah.

TURNER:  -- obvious.

KURTZ:  The implication that he's talking about the president is just not true. Now, look, the president likes to have fun at rallies. He jokes around. One of the things he said in a light-hearted way the other day ended up making big headlines. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP:  What am I going to do? I'm going to say I lost to the worst candidate in the history of politics. I'm not going to feel so good. Maybe I'll have to leave the country. I don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ:  So the banner headline in the drudge report, Trump may leave country if loses. Does the media sometimes overreact a bit --

TURNER:  Yes.

KURTZ:  -- to this president's jokes?

TURNER:  They do. He was obviously making a joke at the expense of Hollywood celebrities, some of whom have been threatening to leave since 2015. John Legend a few weeks ago was encouraging all Americans to leave if President Trump wins re-election. That same week, he bought a new $17.5 million mansion in L.A. He is going nowhere. Neither is anybody else.

KURTZ:  I love the John Legend angle. And yes, you know, it's just interesting to me that, like, look, the president says lots of controversial things. Clearly, he was having some fun with the crowd.

Nevertheless, it made headlines.

Gillian Turner, thanks for sticking around. Good to see you.

And that is it for this edition of MEDIA BUZZ. I'm Howard Kurtz. Hope you also like our Facebook page. You can read my daily columns there. Come at me on Twitter. I don't have to encourage some of you. If you want to check out my podcast, it's called "Media Buzzmeter." We deal with the top stories as played by the media. You can subscribe at Apple iTunes, G Google podcast or on your Amazon device.

We're down to the last two weeks of the campaign, folks. We will see you back here next Sunday, 11:00 Eastern, with the latest buzz.

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